Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

[duck]

http://www.eupolitix.com/EN/News/1c73600d-64ed-4cd5-8ecf-c210f085f992.htm

Interview: Sharon slams anti-Semitic Europe




Europeans are inherently anti-Semitic and their leaders are guilty of pushing a biased policy in the Middle East, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has told EUpolitix.com.

“What we are facing in Europe is an anti-Semitism that has always existed and it really is not a new phenomenon,” he argues in response to an EU poll that rated Israel above Iran and North Korea as a threat to world peace.

Sharon throws out the distinction between anti-Semitic beliefs and legitimate criticism of Israel’s policies in the Middle East.

“Today there is no separation. We are talking about collective anti-Semitism. The state of Israel is a Jewish state and the attitude towards Israel runs accordingly.”

“I would say, in my opinion, EU governments are not doing enough to tackle anti-Semitism,” he counters.

Israel has recently stepped up the pressure on EU governments to do more, calling for a joint EU-Israel Council to be set up to tackle the problem.

Sharon strongly believes that Europe’s own biased policies hamper its role in the Middle East peace process.

The EU has made no secret of its strong opposition to Israel’s construction of a “security fence” which has cut off many Palestinians from vital social services, family members and employment.

Israel argues that the fence is vital to protect its citizens from devastating suicide bomb attacks.

Tension has also risen over Israel’s hard-line policy not to talk to any senior political figures who have contact with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

However, Sharon counters that “Europe could have played a stronger and central role if it had conducted a more balanced policy in the Middle East.”

“The state of the Israel cannot afford to deposit its destiny in the hands of the Europeans who are known for their unbalanced policy,” Sharon argues.

But he praises Italy for fighting against the tide of negative opinion in Europe and for trying to redress the balance.

“Today during the Italian presidency we can say that Europe’s policy is balanced,” he stresses.

Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi has in the past won the hearts of the Israeli government by publicly lobbying for Israel’s future membership of the European Union.

Sharon later makes the extraordinary claim that the growth of the Muslim community is also a threat to Jews living in Europe.

“Since there is an ever strengthening Muslim presence in Europe, it certainly endangers the life of Jewish people.”

“Of course, the sheer fact that there are a huge amount of Muslims, approximately 17 million in the EU, this issue has also turned into a political matter.”

Sharon challenges the EU not to be driven by economic interests when tackling the threat of Iran’s nuclear capabilities.

“One must be careful. Europe has an economic interest in Iran. We have to warn and emphasize that the inspection must be genuine.”

“Our call to Europe is clear. We must make a tie between economic relations with Iran, and the country’s nuclear development. One must question these relations as long as Iran fails to comply.”

Israel has joined the United States in pushing for tougher sanctions against Iran over its concealment of parts of its nuclear programme.

Both countries are highly sceptical of Iran’s insistence that its nuclear capabilities are solely for civilian purposes, accusing Tehran of being in breach of international obligations.

For the full transcript of the EUpolitix.com interview with Ariel Sharon, click on the 'further reading' link, right.

[fantassin]

Just for the sake of a good argument, the current minister in charge of security and religions in France (and a likely candidate for the next presidential elections for the conservative party) is Jewish.

If he becomes president in 2005, what would Sharon say?

[Javehn]

It talkes about the feelings of Europian people , and they feelings towards Israel that backed up by Europian media, not some sort of government Anti-semite politic conduction.

[steel bonnet]

A more simplistic view is that EUROPE is Crawling with MUSLIMS & ISLAMICS?? Not like they don`t have a beef with them!!
What with the a,ount of national born Euro Muslim/Islamics & then of course the Overwhelming amount of Immigrants over the last few years that have been given haven in Euro countries & treat better than people born in there host country.
Add to that the Screaming liberals,the same one`s who tried to paint the Iraq War as a campaign of murder.
So when you get that sort of mixture,alas that will be a loud voice,though not a correct one.

Ja
Steel Bonet

[Shadow]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

:cantbeli:

Even muslims have to live somewhere.
Where should the muslimes live? On the moon?

[Claymore]

"Do what i want/always agree with me, or else I call you a nazi" Too old trick, but still they use it time after time.

[Shadow]

"Do what i want/always agree with me, or else I call you a nazi" Too old trick, but still they use it time after time.

I totaly agree with you!

[Roger Rabbit]

Personally i sometimes get the impression that maybe Israel shouldn't be doing some of the stuff they do. Its just as well Sharon is never gonna read that because if he did then he would see it as saying Seig Heil.

[ciro]

anti-semitic :roll: so mr sharon tell me plz what the meaning of semitic :D

arabs r semitic too.. am i right? :roll:

[aeternum]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

[Kitsune]

I already was fascinated that GWB has such a strong liking for Silvio "The Godfather" Berlusconi...Sharon seems to like him, too.

That alone is a telltale sign.


p-)

[Saranof]

I already was fascinated that GWB has such a strong liking for Silvio "The Godfather" Berlusconi...Sharon seems to like him, too.

That alone is a telltale sign.


p-)


Quite a nice trio there!

As for Sharon, as Liam Gallagher would say: "Shut yer fookin' mouth!"

[Loco]

Palestinians and sirians are semites too.
Bin Laden mother was from Siria, then he´s half semite too. Bin Laden and all his gang blame europe, occident, the west, America-Europe, of being anti-arab and anti-islamic.
A semite called Isaac Rabin was more afraid from friends semites of Netanyahu and Sharon than friends semites of Arafat, and he sure was right.
Frankly, I´m bored of this statements. I´d like living 1.000.000 miles away from Middle-East, but I can´t. The only thing I´m sure is I could live with isrealies and muslims, I don´t know if they could live with me. And of course, me, as spanish, as european, I don´t have any feeling of culpability or remorses towards israelies or arabs, I don´t accept any israeli or arabe blame my country of nothing except drinking wine or liking ham. There are many europeans, russians, spanish, swedish, greeks, etc, and every people is different. I´m not anti-x, I´m pro-x or simply indifferent.

[AVZ]

I think Mr. Sharon is totally out of his mind. The Palestinians and Israelis will never live friendly side by side. Neither side can call himself aVICTIM!!!!!



Do what i want/always agree with me, or else I call you a nazi" Too old trick, but still they use it time after time
I also agree and insist on not getting marked as a nazi!! :bash:

[seventy6er]

what would Sharon say?

Sorry, but who cares what that old ****er's gotta say?

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares2.jpg

[martinexsquaddie]

just caught the israeli ambassador on Radio four.
Poor sod trying to make his Bosses rant look at least reasonable.
Sharon's not a terribly nice person but then niether is Arafat I doubt there is going to be much progress until thaat generation fade away

[Royal]

"Germany, the land where the Isreali's learned their manners"
PJ O'Rourke

Pulls on kevlar underpants and waits for the attack ;)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

martinexsquaddie I listened to the interveiw as well, the poor guy was on the back foot all the way through it he just could not sound credible.

[cut]

Europe is anti-Sharon, and the arongant bastard can't get it through his head so he assumes europe is anti-semite.

[StarvingStudent47]

Can someone please find an article from a major news source about this? I have been unable to find any story about this on the following news sources:

CNN
BBC
FoxNews
Ha'aretz
The New York Times
MSNBC

You'd think the media hounds would have been all over this story now.

I'm also surprised that Ariel Sharon would choose to make such declarations in a one-on-one interview with a news source I haven't heard of before. You'd think that maybe he would have held a press conference like Prime Ministers normally do when they want to make statements. Very odd.

[wholagun]

"Do what i want/always agree with me, or else I call you a nazi" Too old trick, but still they use it time after time.

I totaly agree with you!

I second that idea

Kinda of like the US foreign policy if your not with us your against us, except for Israel its if you don't support us your anti semetic.

Kinda reminds me of the Jerry Seinfeld episode where uncle Leo accused everyone who did something wrong against him an anti semite.
Damn that was a good show too bad its done now.

[jdbjdb]

Wholagun are you an anti semite? ;) j/j

[EvanL]

Wholagun are you an anti semite? ;) j/j
DALLAS STARS TAKE THE ****!!!!!!! ;) haha

[StarvingStudent47]

In case people missed it...I said that I cannot find ANY reference to this (alleged) interview or its (alleged) aftermath on ANY major news source. I've checked

CNN
BBC
FoxNews
Ha'aretz
The New York Times
MSNBC

You'd think the media hounds would have been all over this story now. They're not. That raises an eyebrow.

I'm also surprised that Ariel Sharon would choose to make such declarations in a one-on-one interview with a news source I haven't heard of before. You'd think that maybe he would have held a press conference like Prime Ministers normally do when they want to make statements. Very odd.

[jdbjdb]

DALLAS STARS TAKE THE ****!!!!!!! haha
A team from Texas won the Stanley Cup in 1999, Dallas year in year out one of the best in the NHL, when was the last time a team from Canada won the cup? Montreal 93? ;) Canadian small market teams can't compete in todays NHL.

[wholagun]

when was the last time a team from Canada won the cup? Montreal 93?

Fair enough we haven't won the cup in a long time. But one can argue that Colorado which was moved from Quebec would have won the cup had it not been moved. ;)

Although you did not mention this, I think it merits recognition - we beat you in the olympics!! woot woot Canadian players are the best. woot

As you said if we only were a bigger market.
We'd clean house each season.
Oh well... maybe someday the leafs will win. :(
But Im not going to hold my breath.

[jdbjdb]

we beat you in the olympics!! Canadian players are the best.

True, I'm thinking the leafs are due, I'm a big Belfour fan, he can lead Toronto all the way if he keeps that temper undercontrol, a couple of years ago I seen a dozen cops sitting on top of Belfour trying to subdue him, he was really waisted rofl they tied him to a chair and gagged him.

[wholagun]

a couple of years ago I seen a dozen cops sitting on top of Belfour trying to subdue him, he was really waisted they tied him to a chair and gagged him.


:o :o :o HOLY **** ARE YOU SERIOUS...

Thats the funniest thing Iv ever heard, **** I'd pay good money to see that.. WOW Belfour carried away in a chair... :D

[army cadet_ngcsu]

I too have not been able to find any major or credible news source that is running the story. I mean come on, Sharon ranting back at Europe would be a major story, especially the comments on muslims.

However, I do agree with Sharon's comments. Anti- semetism is growing in Europe and it is no coincidence that many of the muslims that live there are firmly anti semetic. Every day in France (especially Paris) hate crimes are committed against Jews. Terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and others are listed as official groups that can recieve charities and lobby for money. When I ask many Europeans about this growing disease, none of them try to rebuff with a "its not true" or "that's not how everyone feels" or something sensible like that. Instead I get many replies like "that **** is everywhere", "look at America with black people", and one muslim commented that "they deserve every bit of it". Anti- semetism is growing in Europe, public polls show it. Actions show it (burning synagogues, beating Jews, and condemning their only country for every little thing they do). By the way, America has a bad history of oppression with African Americans, but atleast we try to reconcile and do our best to make it up to them. We never killed 7 milllion of them or have had a history of pogroms and inquisitions. It has not even been a century since the Halocaust and you Europeans already have forgotten...you should be ashamed of yourselves.

BY THE WAY, I WANT MY MONEY BACK FROM THE MARSHALL PLAN!

[Roger Rabbit]

Grow up.

[aktarian]

But he praises Italy for fighting against the tide of negative opinion in Europe and for trying to redress the balance.

“Today during the Italian presidency we can say that Europe’s policy is balanced,” he stresses.

Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi has in the past won the hearts of the Israeli government by publicly lobbying for Israel’s future membership of the European Union.


I guess he missed Berlusconi's statements that Mussolini's rule wasn't that bad and all he did was send his oponents (=political oponents and Slavs) to holidays on islands in Adriatic.

But then again, Israel was known to "overlook" things like this to bash critics.

[stephane from Paris]

Hate crimes comited every day in Paris????? Ha ha ha ha ha ha, where did you find that joke?
There was 1 orthodox jewish school burned the last day that all!
Jews received sometimes insults in the streets from Arabs since 11/09 but not really more than all europeans origins received from gangs (tons of imigrants)!
Since several years there're bigs problems between frenchs (including jews origins) and muslims. the main problem is the place that a strong new muslim minority (8%) will have and how they will be integrated in a western non religious country!!!! that's why 15 to 20% of people voted for ultraright wing!

Jews supports Israël and Arabs supports muslims in every countries in war! so every problems in Mid east will import violence here!! that 's one of the reasons that france didn't want another war ! Bush didn't undertand the power of muslim nationalism which will cause troubles in tons of countries!
terrorists groups can receive money and are officially well known????
Do you really thinks that ****???????????

[aeternum]

BY THE WAY, I WANT MY MONEY BACK FROM THE MARSHALL PLAN!

As you talk about "YOUR" money. Unless you personally contributed and give me a detailed list how much it was, i will keep "Your" money right where it is.....lol... you are funny

[StarvingStudent47]

I too have not been able to find any major or credible news source that is running the story. I mean come on, Sharon ranting back at Europe would be a major story, especially the comments on muslims.

Given that NO ONE has picked up this story in several days, even news sources that hate Sharon (BBC, *******, and Ha'aretz), I'm inclined to say the entire thing is a hoax. It isn't the first time I've seen comments falsely attributed to Ariel Sharon in an attempt to slander him.

[Roger Rabbit]

I saw it mentioned breifly in the Sun's edition on Monday or Tuesday, if it's still in the kitchen i will scan in the article. Then and again the Sun is not a reliable source of info. Apart from page 3.

[army cadet_ngcsu]

French Jews quarrel over future as anti-Semitic crimes mount
Jewish Telegraphic Agency


PARIS -- A little more than 100 yards from where French Jews had gathered to debate the community's future lay the latest reminder of just how precarious that future is.

On May 29, participants entering the main synagogue in Creteil, a southern Paris suburb with a large Jewish population, were greeted with news that has become all too familiar since the Palestinian intifada began in September 2000.

The night before, a large Jewish grocery store literally a stone's throw from the synagogue had been gutted by an arson attack that police and community leaders believe was motivated by anti-Semitism.

The same evening, in the northeastern Parisian suburb of Rosny, swastikas were sprayed on the walls of the town's synagogue, along with slogans reading "Death to the Jews."

According to Sammy Ghozlan, founder of the Bureau for Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism and head of the Council of Jewish Communities, there have been more than 250 anti-Semitic incidents in France since the beginning of 2003, and more than 2,000 since the intifada began.

The Creteil conference, titled "The Future of the Jewish Community in France: Concerns, Questions and Perspectives," brought together leading Jewish politicians, community leaders and intellectuals.

Presenting his statistics, Ghozlan said the community had been shocked not only by the level of anti-Semitism but also by the authorities' initial silence.

Moreover, he said, during the initial wave of attacks in 2000 and 2001, President Jacques Chirac and the government of then-Prime Minister Lionel Jospin had sought to minimize the problem.

Anti-racist organizations had marched alongside the Jewish community in the 1990s, following attacks by the extreme right and against the threat of right-wing politician Jean-Marie Le Pen. But many of those groups had abandoned the Jewish community this time around, Ghozlan said, though he singled out the group SOS Racisme for its continued support.

One of the founders of SOS Racisme, Julien Drai, said the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was being used as a pretext.

It is worrisome that Jews in France even had to ask "whether we will still be here in 10 years time," said Drai, a Jewish legislator in the French Parliament and a Socialist Party spokesman.

For Drai, who said he believes Jews have a future in France, the answer lies in the continued commitment of the Jewish community to the French republic's secular values and a willingness to demand that politicians address anti-Semitism seriously.

Moreover, he said, the Socialist Party's reaction during recent demonstrations against the U.S.-led war in Iraq had been positive, with a firm directive given to party members to leave anti-war demonstrations at the first whiff of anti-Semitism.

Some left-wing movements were not so scrupulous about anti-Semitism, Drai said.

"When they explain it away they justify it, and when they justify they legitimize," he said.

At the conference, Drai was not the only speaker to note that the community feels it's fighting alone.

"Where are the teachers' unions to denounce school anti-Semitism?" asked Serge Cwajgenbaum, secretary-general of the European Jewish Congress, a co-sponsor.

Shimon Samuels, international director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a conference co-sponsor, said the growth in anti-Semitic attacks is not restricted to France, but is a problem across Europe.

According to another key speaker at the conference, Rabbi Gilles Bernheim, the situation of French Jews is symptomatic of a far greater malaise in French society.

Some three hours into the discussion, an audience member demanded that the Jewish Agency for Israel's representative in France, Olivier Rafowicz, be allowed to speak.

A former Israeli military spokesman in France and a regular on radio and television stations, Rafowicz earlier said that the condition of the French Jewish community is "clinically dead."

Rafowicz asked audience members to raise their hands if they saw a long-term future for Jews in France. Only three people did so.

He then asked whether there was a long-term future in Israel, and about half the people in the audience raised their hands.

That proved that the Jewish community's "leadership did not represent the grassroots," Rafowicz said.

It was left to Marc Knobel, a researcher from the CRIF umbrella organization of secular French Jewry, to defend community leaders.

CRIF's work in combating anti-Semitism has been criticized as being too weak -- which is one reason that the Bureau for Vigilance Against anti-Semitism was set up by Ghozlan, a retired police commissioner who was recently described by the magazine Vanity Fair as "the Sephardi Columbo."

Both the bureau and CRIF's Jewish Community Protection Service collate statistics of anti-Semitic attacks, run a 24-hour hotline and intervene with the authorities.

CRIF has had its critics from within as well. Alain Jakubowitz, an organization leader in Lyon, wrote recently that CRIF's president was undermining the battle against anti-Semitism in France by failing to criticize Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's policies.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030606/i15.shtml

[army cadet_ngcsu]

Anxiety is gripping French Jews. They've seen synagogues ablaze, cemeteries vandalized and walls painted with swastikas as they face what observers have called the worst spate of anti-Semitism since World War II. Hate crimes rose from just one in 1998 to more than 700 in the first five months of 2002. Observant Jews live in a state of siege. Police now patrol in front of the Jewish schools. Graffiti and swastikas appear almost nightly in Strasbourg. Rabbis exhort congregants in Marseille to cover their kipas in public. Jewish men guard the front of synagogues during services, walkie-talkies in hand, revolvers hidden in their pocket. Parents forbid their sons to play soccer because of a vicious attack in Paris. And the number of Jews considering leaving for Israel has skyrocketed in recent months, according to the Jewish Agency office in Paris.

In two dozen interviews conducted in French with Jews in Paris, Marseille and Strasbourg during a two-week period in mid-May, a portrait emerges of a complex French Jewish community splintered by the specter of anti-Semitism. The Jews of France became unified briefly in fighting Le Pen. With that threat over, the ongoing anti-Semitic events have exposed differences along fault lines of religious observance, social class, politics, age and origins.

The debate, a fierce one, is now centering on how to respond to anti-Semitism among Muslims, the anti-Israel bias in the media and security for Jews on college campuses.

The government's initial reaction to the wave of anti-Semitic incidents -- a refusal to acknowledge the seriousness of the problem -- was almost as shocking as the violence itself. On its heels came Le Pen's surprising success in the first round of presidential elections.

Most recently, a controversial letter by Socialist Party adviser Paul Boniface exposed what many Jews fear is France's new political reality: politicians are wooing Arab Muslims who outnumber France's 600,000 Jews 10 to 1. The largest population of Muslims in Europe, French Arabs rallied around Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat after the second intifada in 2000. After Sept. 11, many proclaimed Osama bin Laden their hero.

The pro-Palestinian stance, tinged with virulent anti-Americanism, has spread beyond the "cites," or housing projects. The No. 1-selling paperback in France -- "L'Effroyable Imposture" ("Extreme Fraud") by Thierry Meyssan -- alleges that the U.S. government faked the Pentagon crash with a bomb as part of a larger conspiracy to create justification for an invasion of Afghanistan.

Since Sept. 11, there's also more blatant discrimination against Jews. "It's no longer politically incorrect to be openly anti-Semitic," says Edith Bismuth, communications director of Marseille's Council of Jewish Communities (CRIF), an umbrella organization for secular French Jewish groups.

Turned away at a beauty parlor she had frequented for years, one young woman was told, "We don't want to take care of you people anymore." When confronted, the owner retorted, "Yes, I'm anti-Semitic and what are you going to do about it?" The young woman filed a complaint under the Gayssot law of 1990. That law punishes those who incite racial hatred, support Holocaust revisionism or slander with racist or anti-Semitic insults.


http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Paris3_When_It_Sizzles_With_Hate.asp

[stephane from Paris]

250 acts of violence???!!!!!!! Well enormous number that says that antisemitics are all over the country!!!!!!!
Stop, man!! Last year there were 4 millions acts of violence recensed by Police!!! I had many time to fight (with fists no gun like in your country) for save a jacket, my money, or just the fact that i'm european with short cut hair.
Some young jewish organisations (Betar) uses violence too against palestinians supporters!! the violence is in the 2 sides!
Some US and french jewish lobby point their finger on France because they thinks that since the death of Simon Peres France foreign politic is too much pro arabs! they play a dangerous game, and we have now the result!!
There's a problem it's a fact but some jewishs organisations (close to ultra right sionnists) use it to justify Sharon's methods! the more incredible is that some jews voted for ultra right party in 2002!!!!
If ultra right (christians) is so strong now it's because muslims imigrants (not all of course) are often responsibles of violences and because a part of arabs are under islamists integrists point of view!!
On the other side, the ultra left wing and arabs see Israël (and the USA where you had M. allbright, W cohen, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld (jew this one too?) in very hight responsabillity ministers) like oppressor of the palestinians!
When you speack of the bias in the mediats here do you know how many jews are in TV, radios and news paper????????????? 10 to 20% of journalists are jews when 0.01% are muslims!! Says that french press is antisemitic is really ridiculous!
The situation is far more complex than Bush thinks!

As i said, when Chirac didn't want the OIF , it was one of the parameters!
Regards
st
ps: It's Julien DRAY, a guy who was in ultra left wing when he was younger.

[jdbjdb]

HOLY **** ARE YOU SERIOUS...

Thats the funniest thing Iv ever heard, **** I'd pay good money to see that.. WOW Belfour carried away in a chair...
I was with some friends this happened at the Turtle Creek Mansions, we went to get pictures taken with Belfour, we got there he was totally waisted he punched some guy, When Belfour was tied to the chair he looked like that Hannibal guy from Silence of the Lambs, and we didn't get out picture taken with him. :cantbeli: and Belfour offered Dallas Police 1 Billion$ if they let him go

[Royal]

BY THE WAY, I WANT MY MONEY BACK FROM THE MARSHALL PLAN!

Where the f**k do you think half the gold in Fort Knox came from - a pot at the end of a Kansas rainbow :cantbeli:

It came from the national gold reserves of Western Europe (UK included), saved from the Nazis and shipped across the pond to pay for lend lease and the rebuilding.

Ignorant f**kwit :cantbeli:

[fantassin]

If every time a French Christian was mugged by an arab in France it was called the resurgence of a "new wave" of anti-Christianism, there would not be enough paper on this planet to report on it...

There are over 600 000 jews in France, the largest european jewish community; if they felt so threatened, they would have moved away by now.

Stop watching Fox news, it's bad for your brains.

[duck]

Hungry Student: You better inform both Microsoft and Ford Corporations that an European Union-affiliated news provider they sponsor is making up anti-Israeli stories. I bet you will become the hero of the righteous.

[martinexsquaddie]

I heard the israeli ambassador trying to "EXPLAIN" SHARONS words on bbc radio 4 last night but thats probably to left wing for you

[StarvingStudent47]

I heard the israeli ambassador trying to "EXPLAIN" SHARONS words on bbc radio 4 last night but thats probably to left wing for you


Hungry Student: You better inform both Microsoft and Ford Corporations that an European Union-affiliated news provider they sponsor is making up anti-Israeli stories. I bet you will become the hero of the righteous.

1) I have yet to see ANY mention of this story on:
http://news.bbc.co.uk
http://www.*******.com
http://www.nytimes.com
http://www.msnbc.com
http://www.foxnews.com
http://www.haaretz.com
http://www.cnn.com
Martin, I hope you're not terribly offended that I won't take your word on it until the BBC posts an article I can see with my own eyes. I doubt you'd take my word on something you couldn't otherwise verify.

2) And I have yet to hear a plausible explanation for why that is so. I simply cannot believe that all these news sources (some very anti-Sharon) wouldn't find it newsworthy that Sharon was publicly making such radical comments.

When one of these two conditions is met, I will consider changing my position.

[cut]

took me 2 secs to find this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3275979.stm

use search next time

[cut]

slightly longer but here's another


http://www.*******.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3878170

and seaming as its on ******* it will be on all the american ones coz they just seem to copy&paste ******* all the time.

[Macs.]

We never killed 7 milllion of them or have had a history of pogroms and inquisitions. It has not even been a century since the Halocaust and you Europeans already have forgotten...you
should be ashamed of yourselves

(...)
1945-46 China
1950-53 Korea, China
1954 Guatemala
1958 Indonesia
1959-61 Cuba
1960 Guatemala
1964 Congo
1965 Peru
1964-73 Laos
1961-73 Vietnam
1969-70 Cambodia
1967-69 Guatemala
1983 Grenada
1983-84 Lebanon
1980s El Salvador
1980s Nicaragua
1986 Libya
1987 Iran
1989 Panama
1991 Iraq
1993 Somalia
1998 Sudan
(...)

Did you ever feel ashame for the wars of the USA ? No, because the USA never did something wrong, right ?

We are still paying money to the victims of the holocaust, we are even paying to the childrens and grandchildrens of the holocaust victims. Did the USA ever pay money for victims ? For the killed vietnamese people ? I dont think so. So please shut up.

[cut]

Nazis killed jews because of their religous beliefs
America killed (and some might say still kills) communists because of political beliefs

now sure many of the commies were trying to kill capitalists but not all of them..

not a fair example but makes you think...

[StarvingStudent47]

As I said, until I had an article in front of me, I would reserve judgment. Thank you for the links to articles.

I searched all the sites. Generally by typing in "Sharon" and then searching the most reacent articles. For some reason, these articles didn't come up.

Now that I can read more of his comments, quite frankly, I don't disagree with them. I do disagree with how the original article characterized and paraphrased his comments, though, particularly the opening sentence "Europeans are inherently anti-Semitic." SHARON DID NOT SAY THIS. I also object to how the original poster paraphrased Sharon's comments as "EU is anti-semite" and "has too many Muslims." That is NOT what he said.

On the contrary, he was in Europe being hosted by the Italian Prime Minister, who is pro-Israel and concerned about the recent spate of anti-Jewish attacks (especially those in Turkey and France). Sharon was simply saying that he wished more European countries had leadership like Italy's. Now what's so darned controversial about that?! The original article and the original poster left out that critical context.


French President Jacques Chirac chaired an urgent ministerial meeting last week on fighting anti-Semitism after the firebombing of a Jewish school in a Paris suburb.

Synagogues and Jewish schools in France have been attacked repeatedly in recent years, in violence authorities link to poor Muslim youths enraged by Israel's tough policies against Palestinian unrest.

"An ever stronger Muslim presence in Europe is certainly endangering the life of Jewish people," Sharon said, adding that some 70 million Muslims lived in the 15-nation bloc.

"I would say...EU governments are not doing enough to tackle anti-Semitism," he said.

This is not that radical of a statement. He's NOT saying "Muslims are inherently hateful" or "Europeans are inherently hateful," as the original poster and EUpolitix would have us believe. He's just saying that there has been a significant increase in anti-Jewish attacks in recent years (true--even the BBC has carried numerous stories on this issue), that most of these attacks have come from Muslim extremists (true), and that the governments of many European countries should be doing more to prevent these attacks (in my opinion true). He was not calling for mass deportation or ANYTHING like that, which the original article and poster would have you believe. He was just saying that at the moment, there is a distinct correlation between Muslim immigrant populations and anti-Jewish violence. THIS IS NOT CONTESTED. He just said it needed to be addressed somehow. In my opinion, it should be addressed by helping new immigrants receive education, including indoctrination on the values of a pluralistic society (since a significant number of Muslim societies around the world are currently not very pluralistic). Since many European countries have recently started working on such programs, Sharon's comments are hardly out of line.


"Of course it is dangerous to generalise, but it is possible to say that the majority of countries in Europe do not have a balanced policy," he told EUpolitix. "Today, during the Italian presidency, we can say that Europe's policy is balanced."
Again, not contested. The majority of Europe has not been very cozy with Israel since the 1967 War. Neither pro-Israel people nor anti-Israel people contest this fact.

I think EUpolitix.com mischaracterized his comments. I think the title of this thread is particularly misleading. While Sharon's comments quoted in the BBC and ******* articles are certainly controversial, they are NOT the sweeping generalizations that the original article and original poster implied.

[cut]

At the most the BBC is anti-israeli (as in government, foreign policies) but definately not anti semitic. independent watchdogs would not let that be.

[StarvingStudent47]

At the most the BBC is anti-israeli (as in government, foreign policies) but definately not anti semitic. independent watchdogs would not let that be.

Did my post say otherwise? No, it didn't. The comment "even the BBC has carried numerous stories on this issue" was inserted to show that not just American or Israeli newspapers were reporting those attacks "to slander Europe" or something like that. I said "even the BBC" to show that even Europeans admit there is a problem with anti-Jewish attacks in Europe.

I don't want to get into what I really think of the BBC right now, because what I really think of the BBC has nothing to do with this thread. I just want to clarify my statement, because you obviously misread it as an attack on the BBC, when it was not meant to be one.

[fantassin]

A Catholic school has been ramsacked by hooligans in the Paris suburb of Stain last night.

Is it another case of the resurgence of the notoriously anti-Catholic french population....? (which is also, as everybody knows well, anti-semitic, anti-american, anti-arab, anti-moslem....)

I doubt it's going to make world news though, does not fit everybody's agenda.

[StarvingStudent47]

A Catholic school has been ramsacked by hooligans in the Paris suburb of Stain last night.

Is it another case of the resurgence of the notoriously anti-Catholic french population....? (which is also, as everybody knows well, anti-semitic, anti-american, anti-arab, anti-moslem....)

I doubt it's going to make world news though, does not fit everybody's agenda.

The following is from the ******* article Cut provided above.


French President Jacques Chirac chaired an urgent ministerial meeting last week on fighting anti-Semitism after the firebombing of a Jewish school in a Paris suburb.
Would Chirac hold an urgent ministerial meeting about a problem that didn't exist? Even Jacques Chirac admits that anti-Semitism is a problem in France.

[fantassin]

But what about the others who are being attacked and don't claim to be victims of religiously motivated attacks?

60 millions French:

0,6 M jews, 6 M moslems, the rest have no faith or are Christians; 4 Millions acts of violence on persons a year and only jews see it aimed specifically at their religion.

The rest sees it as anti-French, anti-western world or purely money motivated when they are attacked by moslems.

"Agree with me or you are an anti-semitic pig"

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

For all you American Jewish folks out there who have been decrying Europe for its anti-semitism we I the UK have had one Jewish prime minister, the leader of the main opposition party is Jewish and our foreign secretary is Jewish. When is an American Jew ever going to be President, will the
WASP's ever tolerate a Jewish president lts face it the only Catholic president you ever had was murdered. :|

[fantassin]

For the sake of a good argument...

This afternoon in Dunkirk, North of France, a Mosque has been daubed with swastikas and parts of it has been torched.

Another typical instance of French pro-arabs policies...

[Roger Rabbit]

The Sun did mention that Sharon had made comments on what he percieved to be anti-semitic ideas held by most of Europe.

[gilgoul]

If every time a French Christian was mugged by an arab in France it was called the resurgence of a "new wave" of anti-Christianism, there would not be enough paper on this planet to report on it...

There are over 600 000 jews in France, the largest european jewish community; if they felt so threatened, they would have moved away by now.

Stop watching Fox news, it's bad for your brains.

The fact is that a lot moved already, like me.
Not that they dislike france, they simply feel betrayed, for the fourth time since the Dreyfus affair.
And if you look a little further, you`ll discover that a growing number of french jews are aplying for immigration to the USA or Canada, as well as a not egligible number are planning their "alyah" in Israel.
Why?
Because of the indiference at best of you fellow french men.
Because France in it`s forign policy and it`s internal affairs has taken the pro arab side.
Unrest and riot situation in the "cite" of sarcelle or St Denis are dealt with a much nicer way than when fishermen are demonstrating for their living.
Because my family, a part of it had to flee from algeria in 62, receives hate mail, swatiska painted on their door and even physical agression because they are jews and known as jews in our "multicultural" neighborhood.
Necause you have to post a policeman plus internal security in front of every jewish place, and that hasn`t prevented a lot of destruction from taking place.
As i wrote you once, I love France for numerous things, and served it the best I could as did my father (wounded twice in algeria war)and both of my grand fathers during the second world war, but the very fact of still having my feeling doubted, discarded as the product of a paranoia while i saw more than one demonstration where Hamas and Hizbullah flags could be seen, while the crowd was chanting anti semitic slogans, brings to me bitter though, and some questions toward the capacity of French to be something else than appeasment bitches.

[n.ignomo]

Après plusieurs années de forte hausse, le nombre de dossiers déposés a encore augmenté, de 2,1 % en 2003. Il place désormais la France devant l'Allemagne et la Grande-Bretagne, qui vient de prendre des mesures drastiques pour réduire l'afflux de demandes.

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3226,36-362932,0.html (in french)

To sum it up, France is the coutrny of UE which welcomes (way to say) the most immigrants.

That's right there are many muslims, it started after algeria war when our "pieds noirs", french living in algeria, came back to metropolitan france. Among them was a number of muslims, which after that made their families come to France. Now, most of the muslims from maghreb don't feel like algerian or tunisian but like french. But the israelo-palestinian conflict makes some of them acting like arabs and not french, german or what. A few of them think they are arabs fighting against jews, but this is a very few !

[AROUETLJ]

Oh how nice. Now we can't criticise a country's policy because its leader happens to be a Jew.

And perhaps Sharon would like to welcome these Muslima into Israel?

What a bloody wanker. If he says another word against the EU I'll personally strangle him. (Might be difficult, I'd have to climb over his huge belly first...)

[foxtrot023]

By the way, America has a bad history of oppression with African Americans, but atleast we try to reconcile and do our best to make it up to them. We never killed 7 milllion of them or have had a history of pogroms and inquisitions. It has not even been a century since the Halocaust and you Europeans already have forgotten...you should be ashamed of yourselves.

BY THE WAY, I WANT MY MONEY BACK FROM THE MARSHALL PLAN!

I`m sorry, then you guys sent the Indians (ooops NATIVE AMERICANS) to summer camps, right?

And let`s not forget were you sent japanese civilians for several years. A hint to you- it wasn`t Disney World.

And last but not least, Marshall plan did not cover all european nations and it was paid partially from gold as mentioned above.

Are you sure you are an Army Cadet? Perhaps you should change your career to something that suits your personality better like Rodeo Clown, or perhap be a Water Boy for a mediocre baseball team. Heck if no one wants you, I am sure some of the royal families in Europe could open a position just for you: Court Buffon

[cut]

gilgoul why did you bring back this thread? it's just asking for someone to flame it

[citizen-k]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

:cantbeli:

Even muslims have to live somewhere.
Where should the muslimes live? On the moon?

In one of the 21 arab countries around the world?

In case its the first time you opened a web browser/TV/newspaper Jews got only one state - and "some" countries, in the middle east and Europe are doing there best to destroy it.

[Threelions]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

Well said!! Sharon is a knob end, and is just fueling hate with more hate. Isreal will be a much better nation when they case Sharon.

Cheers

[UkrainianAmerican]

"Germany, the land where the Isreali's learned their manners"
PJ O'Rourke

Pulls on kevlar underpants and waits for the attack ;)
And What the fcuk is that supposed to mean?

[UkrainianAmerican]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

Well said!! Sharon is a knob end, and is just fueling hate with more hate. Isreal will be a much better nation when they case Sharon.

Cheers
Canada is going to be a much better nation when you case Paul Martin.

[cut]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

Well said!! Sharon is a knob end, and is just fueling hate with more hate. Isreal will be a much better nation when they case Sharon.

Cheers

well said

[cut]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

Well said!! Sharon is a knob end, and is just fueling hate with more hate. Isreal will be a much better nation when they case Sharon.

Cheers
Canada is going to be a much better nation when you case Paul Martin.

lol are you aware what ex-pat means?

[Threelions]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

Well said!! Sharon is a knob end, and is just fueling hate with more hate. Isreal will be a much better nation when they case Sharon.

Cheers
Canada is going to be a much better nation when you case Paul Martin.

Couldn't agree more!!! But im not too worried about that as he is on his way out. Few months in office and his already embroiled in a political storm. I always vote Canadian alliance, so i hate seeing any Liberal in power. On another note, im super impressed you know who the PM is!! Most people here dont even know who he is!! woot

Cheers

[Threelions]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

Well said!! Sharon is a knob end, and is just fueling hate with more hate. Isreal will be a much better nation when they case Sharon.

Cheers

well said

Hey cut i hust noticed your from kent, my home County!!! I am from Sidcup originally! Small world!

Cheers

[UoUo]

You all hate sharon...and all of you told us how racist he is and bla...bla...

Bur guess what? the israelis people choosed sharon...

Soo... what do you have to say now?

[sethen]

Me: Texas has far to many Jews and the Bush criminal gang are their flunkies!!!!!!!!

[UkrainianAmerican]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

Well said!! Sharon is a knob end, and is just fueling hate with more hate. Isreal will be a much better nation when they case Sharon.

Cheers
Canada is going to be a much better nation when you case Paul Martin.

Couldn't agree more!!! But im not too worried about that as he is on his way out. Few months in office and his already embroiled in a political storm. I always vote Canadian alliance, so i hate seeing any Liberal in power. On another note, im super impressed you know who the PM is!! Most people here dont even know who he is!! woot

Cheers
Google could be useful at times. :lol: :P

[foxtrot023]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

:cantbeli:

Even muslims have to live somewhere.
Where should the muslimes live? On the moon?

In one of the 21 arab countries around the world?

In case its the first time you opened a web browser/TV/newspaper Jews got only one state - and "some" countries, in the middle east and Europe are doing there best to destroy it.

Really? Please tell me WHICH european country has their armed forces at the border, ready to invade Israel, is it Germany? UK? France?

Explain yourself, don`t just write the first thing that comes into your mind (ah, and some links would also be good)

Thanks

[cut]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

This statement says it all. Sharon is pretty much a racist.

Well said!! Sharon is a knob end, and is just fueling hate with more hate. Isreal will be a much better nation when they case Sharon.

Cheers

well said

Hey cut i hust noticed your from kent, my home County!!! I am from Sidcup originally! Small world!

Cheers

kent seems to be the most popular county for the brits in here. For some strange reason. I'm only in Kent for uni, my "home" is probably still where my parents live, a few blocs away from Stamford Bridge, When I still lived their about 4 years ago I could always listen to the chants from the terraces whenever ther was a big match on.

[UoUo]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

:cantbeli:

Even muslims have to live somewhere.
Where should the muslimes live? On the moon?

In one of the 21 arab countries around the world?

In case its the first time you opened a web browser/TV/newspaper Jews got only one state - and "some" countries, in the middle east and Europe are doing there best to destroy it.

Really? Please tell me WHICH european country has their armed forces at the border, ready to invade Israel, is it Germany? UK? France?

Explain yourself, don`t just write the first thing that comes into your mind (ah, and some links would also be good)

Thanks

By moral support...the fact that most of the european country support the Pal'...and guess what the pal' trying to do...

[foxtrot023]

Sharon: EU is anti-semite, has too many muslims

:cantbeli:

Even muslims have to live somewhere.
Where should the muslimes live? On the moon?

In one of the 21 arab countries around the world?

In case its the first time you opened a web browser/TV/newspaper Jews got only one state - and "some" countries, in the middle east and Europe are doing there best to destroy it.

Really? Please tell me WHICH european country has their armed forces at the border, ready to invade Israel, is it Germany? UK? France?

Explain yourself, don`t just write the first thing that comes into your mind (ah, and some links would also be good)

Thanks

By moral support...the fact that most of the european country support the Pal'...and guess what the pal' trying to do...

Describe ¨moral support¨

Describe who and how in the part of ¨support Pal`¨

What is ¨Pal¨ trying to do?

Don`t just place opinions, give facts

Regards

[Uninen]

By moral support...the fact that most of the european country support the Pal'...and guess what the pal' trying to do...

Oh yeah, we funded few schools, hospitals and things like that to them....

All of which YOU have ALREADY DESTROYED.

Now think were carefully before "pointing the finger" at anybody else than yourself.

GUESS WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE!

[S'13]

By moral support...the fact that most of the european country support the Pal'...and guess what the pal' trying to do...

Oh yeah, we funded few schools, hospitals and things like that to them....

All of which YOU have ALREADY DESTROYED.

Now think were carefully before "pointing the finger" at anybody else than yourself.



:cantbeli: rofl :lol:

You really think your funds only go to so called "schools" and "hospitals"?!

You are either very naive or very stupid...

[IDFM203]

By moral support...the fact that most of the european country support the Pal'...and guess what the pal' trying to do...

[color=darkblue]Oh yeah, we funded few schools, hospitals and things like that to them....

............schools where they preach death to Israel and a complete NON acceptance of israel.

yeah great job on supporting that kind of education :roll:

secondly spare me the BS on how humanitarian you are, your money didn’t go to solely that.

Its been known that a lot of the EU funds did support terrorist activity whereas the PA was directly involved and the EU turned a black eye to all of that and still gave money to them


oh and do tell me how many pali schools and hospitals we have destroyed??? Come on let me see how many since you said we destroyed it.

Shalom :D

[IDFM203]

Me: Texas has far to many Jews and the Bush criminal gang are their flunkies!!!!!!!! :cantbeli: yes Texas has millions and millions of Jews and we control Bush and the U.S. :roll:

Just curious can you tell me how many Jews are in Texas?

Because I thought that the Christians there had a big say, I didn’t realize it was all the Jews :roll:

let me guess, you really belive I am at my location ;) :roll:

[Haiw]

Me: Texas has far to many Jews and the Bush criminal gang are their flunkies!!!!!!!! :cantbeli: yes Texas has millions and millions of Jews and we control Bush and the U.S. :roll:

Just curious can you tell me ho wmany jews are in Texas?
I agree that saying someone is in control of Texas is a big insult. ;)

On the other hand...what he said was not that much different from what Sharon said. :roll:

[mocking_loudly_died]

This thread is major tedium. I don't care if Sharon said "Europe is a toilet bowl".

[mustamato]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/0403/28/z040328.jpg

http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/0110/28/Ratrace.jpg

http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/0112/09/zetter011208.jpg

[IDFM203]

On the other hand...what he said was not that much different from what Sharon said. :roll:what that Europeans are more wrongly and heavily biased to one side and are more adapt to accept the pali lies at our detriment, for that IMO is correct, whereas Jewish control of Texas (which is so laughable to anyone here who lives in that state) or Jewish control of Bush or the white house, is not factually correct and there is no sane case you can make to back that up.

I don’t think one cancels out the other as you tried to do.

btw its a old thread and I didn’t read what Sharon said, so what I said here is what I thought he would say, so really its my opinion as well ;)

Shalom :D

[UoUo]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/0403/28/z040328.jpg

What tamk is that?

Don't seem like merkava....

[-Max2-]

Great idea to have resurrected this thread, gilgoul... :roll:

[MEGR]

I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

[mustamato]

I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

I doubt the European jews share that opinion. And if they do they should check
their history books. And not only the one about world war 2. I would rather say
that it´s the other way around.

[Javehn]

I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

I doubt the European jews share that opinion. And if they do they should check
their history books. And not only the one about world war 2.

Ahh . BTW , the guy who "ressurected" this post from the grave , is European jew . And he has solid opinion , read it .

[IDFM203]

ahh finally an argument besides a cartoon (boy recently you had nothing or no intelligent input other then lame cartoons to show) :roll:



I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

I doubt the European jews share that opinion. And if they do they should check
their history books. And not only the one about world war 2.first of all many Europeans Jews agree with what Devgru77 said and besides a lot of the articles I read on that I KNOW many European Jews that live there that say the same thing (I have friends in Britain and in France).

secondly as for history book’s yeah Jews were treated great in Europe centuries back :roll: ...................not!!

Shalom :D

[cut]

I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/moreek.gif
more so that with the Nazis? If we europeans were that anti-semitic we wouldn't have voted so many into parliament.

[IDFM203]

I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/moreek.gif
more so that with the Nazis? If we europeans were that anti-semitic we wouldn't have voted so many into parliament.no its not “kristal nacht” again nor is it 1930's again, though IMO its not that far off from it (not saying that going to happen again, but attitudes against Jews IMO aren’t that far removed from how it was in the 30's)

Shalom :D

[mustamato]

I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

I doubt the European jews share that opinion. And if they do they should check
their history books. And not only the one about world war 2.

first of all many Europeans Jews agree with what Devgru77 said

Those jews are truly ungrateful dumbasses. It´s not like they have to live with
stuff like this these days in Europe, or what?

http://www.netschoolbook.gr/images/holocaust.jpg

Well...

http://www.flashpoints.net/images/shout3.gif

[cut]

I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/moreek.gif
more so that with the Nazis? If we europeans were that anti-semitic we wouldn't have voted so many into parliament.no its not “kristal nacht” again nor is it 1930's again, though IMO its not that far off from it (not saying that going to happen again, but attitudes against Jews IMO aren’t that far removed from how it was in the 30's)

Shalom :D

If that were true I'd be calling you a dirty jew, how can you believe that we are so anti-semitic, ok there is a degree of anti-semitism in france but not more than islamophobia, have you ever seen the french film "la haine" (hatred)? That would give you a good idea of the worsed kind of racism in france, and ironcally it's about 3 friends, a jew, an arab and a black guy.

what during your visit to europe made you think we were racist to that extent? The hatred of Sharon? the fact that we really liked Barak? tell me please..

[Javehn]

"la haine"

Nice movie .

And the only dumbass in here is you , Mustamato . And i am shure that 90 percent in here would agree about it :roll: .

[MEGR]

I stand by what i said.. Europe has done next to nothing for Israel, other than condemn it every step of the way.

[foxtrot023]

On the other hand...what he said was not that much different from what Sharon said. :roll:what that Europeans are more wrongly and heavily biased to one side and are more adapt to accept the pali lies at our detriment, for that IMO is correct, whereas Jewish control of Texas (which is so laughable to anyone here who lives in that state) or Jewish control of Bush or the white house, is not factually correct and there is no sane case you can make to back that up.

I don’t think one cancels out the other as you tried to do.

btw its a old thread and I didn’t read what Sharon said, so what I said here is what I thought he would say, so really its my opinion as well ;)

Shalom :D

Hi IDFM203

Can you provide links to corroborate this:


what that Europeans are more wrongly and heavily biased to one side and are more adapt to accept the pali lies at our detriment, for that IMO is correct

Thanks

[IDFM203]

Hahah and again with the cartoons for its clear your intellectually inept to formulae any of your own arguments…what a child :roll:





I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

I doubt the European jews share that opinion. And if they do they should check
their history books. And not only the one about world war 2.

first of all many Europeans Jews agree with what Devgru77 said

Those jews are truly ungrateful dumbasses. It´s not like they have to live with
stuff like this these days in Europe, or what?

ahh? shut up you dumbass Euro...........again read, I did NOT say its like that again, however to say that anti semtism doesn’t exists or that its not on the rise in Europe is very naive.

As for ungrateful, ungrateful for what? Wtf good have you ever done for us to be ungrateful?

In truth for me I don’t really care if you are, its not like you have any power to harm us even if you wanted to.

I can guarantee you that this time will be a lot different (if it ever comes to that……..though again I am not saying its at that or that it will come to that)






I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/moreek.gif
more so that with the Nazis? If we europeans were that anti-semitic we wouldn't have voted so many into parliament.no its not “kristal nacht” again nor is it 1930's again, though IMO its not that far off from it (not saying that going to happen again, but attitudes against Jews IMO aren’t that far removed from how it was in the 30's)

Shalom :D

If that were true I'd be calling you a dirty jew, .not every euro is anti Semitic nor did I say it is.

However IMO its on the rise and the percentage is higher then how you like to admit.


And its not only France nor did I say its only in France

what during your visit to europe made you think we were racist to that extent? The hatred of Sharon? the fact that we really liked Barak? tell me please. .there is anti Israel and legitimate criticism which I agree is NOT anti Semitism and then there is outrages and false rhetoric and accepting of lies by many in Europe from a lot of clear falsehoods that a lot of the European media constantly writes that IMO crosses the line into clear anti Semitism.

IMO recently alot of the latter has been seen in Euope.

oh and over 60 percent saying israel is the most dangerous nation to world peace is absuurd and just one example of what that false media and lies have done to the Jewish state

Shalom :D

[UoUo]

When i walk on warsawe streets...in the place that about 50 years ago Hundreds of thousands jews were sent to death...and some ****ing Teenagers..yell at us and shout "free palstine" and show us nazi ****...then I knew that there are a lot of antisemtic in europe.

[AROUETLJ]

And some of you have the gall to sign off with "Shalom". Do you really mean it?

[UoUo]

And some of you have the gall to sign off with "Shalom". Do you really mean it?

WTF?

[Javehn]

And some of you have the gall to sign off with "Shalom". Do you really mean it?

WTF ?
Mustamato doushebag twin brother ?
Let me guess : You are from France ...

By the way , good point there UOUO , i was about to write the same point .

[mustamato]

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/50783009.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=D14BC0097DE49CA6A0B3E5C22195B8F6A9C30E9B9B114CE8

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/50782996.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=D14BC0097DE49CA662FB9E2568F92676A9C30E9B9B114CE8

BERLIN, GERMANY: German police secure a street near the Chancellory in Berlin 29 April 2004. The German capital is the venue of the international conference on fighting anti-Semitism by the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in Berlin 28 and 29 April 2004. AFP PHOTO DDP/FABIAN MATZERATH GERMANY OUT (Photo credit should read FABIAN MATZERATH/AFP/***** Images)

Example of European anti-Semitism?

[IDFM203]

Hi IDFM203

Can you provide links to corroborate this:

[quote]what that Europeans are more wrongly and heavily biased to one side and are more adapt to accept the pali lies at our detriment, for that IMO is correct

ThanksI am sorry but that is whole long research which I am not going to do now.

I Mean I can show you links how your media is heavily biased to thier side and how alot its clear falshood and wrong, for I know where they are right now.


As for everything else, well I have to do research on it for I don’t remember where all the articles are and frankly I am not going to do it now (perhps later), though to me when over 60 percent say what I said to cut, I think even you need to step back and not automatically discount what I am saying.

Shalom :D

[cut]

Hahah and again with the cartoons for its clear your intellectually inept to formulae any of your own arguments…what a child :roll:





I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

I doubt the European jews share that opinion. And if they do they should check
their history books. And not only the one about world war 2.

first of all many Europeans Jews agree with what Devgru77 said

Those jews are truly ungrateful dumbasses. It´s not like they have to live with
stuff like this these days in Europe, or what?

ahh? shut up you dumbass Euro...........again read, I did NOT say its like that again, however to say that anti semtism doesn’t exists or that its not on the rise in Europe is very naive.

As for ungrateful, ungrateful for what? Wtf good have you ever done for us to be ungrateful?

In truth for me I don’t really care if you are, its not like you have any power to harm us even if you wanted to.

I can guarantee you that this time will be a lot different (if it ever comes to that……..though again I am not saying its at that or that it will come to that)






I agree that Europe is more anti-semetic than ever.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/moreek.gif
more so that with the Nazis? If we europeans were that anti-semitic we wouldn't have voted so many into parliament.no its not “kristal nacht” again nor is it 1930's again, though IMO its not that far off from it (not saying that going to happen again, but attitudes against Jews IMO aren’t that far removed from how it was in the 30's)

Shalom :D

If that were true I'd be calling you a dirty jew, .not every euro is anti Semitic nor did I say it is.

However IMO its on the rise and the percentage is higher then how you like to admit.


And its not only France nor did I say its only in France

what during your visit to europe made you think we were racist to that extent? The hatred of Sharon? the fact that we really liked Barak? tell me please. .there is anti Israel and legitimate criticism which I agree is NOT anti Semitism and then there is outrages and false rhetoric and accepting of lies by many in Europe from a lot of clear falsehoods that a lot of the European media constantly writes that IMO crosses the line into clear anti Semitism.

IMO recently alot of the latter has been seen in Euope.

oh and over 60 percent saying israel is the most dangerous nation to world peace is absuurd and just one example of what that false media and lies have done to the Jewish state

Shalom :D

saying Israel is the most dangerous state to world peace is not absurd if you take into consideration the fact that you are surrounded by enemy states. It's not a slur on jews and not even necessarily on the Israeli state (note: NOT nation). It's a reflection on the situation not israel.

Anyway I'm sure most europeans creates most wars is the US but as a Superpower it's nothing new.

[IDFM203]

And some of you have the gall to sign off with "Shalom". Do you really mean it?yes I want peace, so what? I cant say how I see the reality is :roll:

that doesn mean I dont want peace.

Shalom :D

[UoUo]

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/50783009.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=D14BC0097DE49CA6A0B3E5C22195B8F6A9C30E9B9B114CE8

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/50782996.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=D14BC0097DE49CA662FB9E2568F92676A9C30E9B9B114CE8

BERLIN, GERMANY: German police secure a street near the Chancellory in Berlin 29 April 2004. The German capital is the venue of the international conference on fighting anti-Semitism by the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in Berlin 28 and 29 April 2004. AFP PHOTO DDP/FABIAN MATZERATH GERMANY OUT (Photo credit should read FABIAN MATZERATH/AFP/***** Images)

Example of European anti-Semitism?

How come you can be so stupaid...i don't say that the gov' are antisemtic...i say there are alot of euro people that hate jews. point.

[cut]

And some of you have the gall to sign off with "Shalom". Do you really mean it?

WTF ?
Mustamato doushebag twin brother ?
Let me guess : You are from France ...

By the way , good point there UOUO , i was about to write the same point .

before jumping to conclusions, consider this guy has posted before with bad english. In fact you have too Javehn, wait till he clarifies.

[cut]

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/50783009.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=D14BC0097DE49CA6A0B3E5C22195B8F6A9C30E9B9B114CE8

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/50782996.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=D14BC0097DE49CA662FB9E2568F92676A9C30E9B9B114CE8

BERLIN, GERMANY: German police secure a street near the Chancellory in Berlin 29 April 2004. The German capital is the venue of the international conference on fighting anti-Semitism by the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in Berlin 28 and 29 April 2004. AFP PHOTO DDP/FABIAN MATZERATH GERMANY OUT (Photo credit should read FABIAN MATZERATH/AFP/***** Images)

Example of European anti-Semitism?

How come you can be so stupaid...i don't say that the gov' are antisemtic...i say there are alot of euro people that hate jews. point.

a lot? can you quantify that?
more so in eastern europe? more so in countries with arabs?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Having actually taken the fight too the Nazi's in the past I for one take exception to Sharon sweeping generalisations on Europe. :(

[IDFM203]

saying Israel is the most dangerous state to world peace is not absurd if you take into consideration the fact that you are surrounded by enemy states. It's not a slur on jews and not even necessarily on the Israeli state (note: NOT nation). It's a reflection on the situation not israel.
I disagree for it in a way puts the blame on the Jewish state for all this and it interprets that ONLY because of Israel or ONLY becouse of its actions and what they might do, they are the most dangerous thing to world peace.

I mean what the Arabs or what the Africans or what the Europeans or the American or South Americans or?? Etc do and act is not as dangerous but only Israel is and not only that but they are the most dangerous thing to world peace :roll:

I guess after we read and see a lot of what we see in a lot of European papers or TV in general on how IMO they write lies and negatively and falsely portray Israel, the benfit of the doubt as to how I said it IMO is correct.

Shalom :D

[cut]

because of where isreal is, you can't change that.

[IDFM203]

Having actually taken the fight too the Nazi's in the past I for one take exception to Sharon sweeping generalisations on Europe. :(who is talking about the Nazi’s here.

We are talking about now and I think its folly for you not to recognize that there is a lot of anti Semitism now in Europe.


It doesn’t mean that everyone is nor that all of Europe are, however IMO its an increasing alarming percentage that are (I guess the debate is perhaps on how big of a percentage and indeed that’s hard to quantify)


That is all that I am saying (and I believe Sharon as well).

Shalom :D

[Javehn]

before jumping to conclusions, consider this guy has posted before with bad english. In fact you have too Javehn, wait till he clarifies.

Yea ... Considering to what he allready wrote here on this thread , it's pretty clear what he tries to say , you know ?

[IDFM203]

because of where isreal is, you can't change that.Yes you cant change where Israel indeed is, but to grossly disproportionately blame Israel where IMO naming it the most dangerous nation to world peace IMO does that, is wrong and that IMO is a problem that is backed up by ever increasing attitudes amongst many in Europe of hostile and negative (and false ) views of the Jewish state.

Shalom :D

[cut]

to be honest, I think the question they were asked "what country gets in the way of world peace?" the thing is the US can always drop it's wars the only war that looks like it's not going to get fixed is the conflict in Israel.

[Haiw]

to be honest, I think the question they were asked "what country gets in the way of world peace?" the thing is the US can always drop it's wars the only war that looks like it's not going to get fixed is the conflict in Israel.
Exactely... and since there was no 'Palestina' on the list they couldn't choose both of them. BTW IIRC the way the questions were asked, or the way the answers were presented was rather misleading.

[cut]

before jumping to conclusions, consider this guy has posted before with bad english. In fact you have too Javehn, wait till he clarifies.

Yea ... Considering to what he allready wrote here on this thread , it's pretty clear what he tries to say , you know ?

what he wrote earlier was anti-sharon, which I sympathise with.

Would you say Europeans are more anti-semitic then say Israelis are islamophobic?

[IDFM203]

to be honest, I think the question they were asked "what country gets in the way of world peace?" the thing is the US can always drop it's wars the only war that looks like it's not going to get fixed is the conflict in Israel.First of all was that asked as such? I would like to see a link to that if you can.

in fact do you have a link to that test as well??



As for what you said, still even if the Israel thing wont be solved, it puts the blame ONLY or as I said before, it grossly and disproportionately puts blame on Israel for that.


Secondly for world peace? Israel isn’t attacking any other things besides terrorist’s targets in its own borders.

I mean there is much more killings in Africa, in other places and other regimes like North Korea or Arab regimes or Iran that harbor clear offensive threats beyond its borders and others like that, though of course tiny Israel that is surronded by hostile nations with hostile populations that is still bent to destroy its very existence, gets singled out as the most dangerous to etc…and that tells me something very clearly.

If you don’t see it then there is nothing more I can say, I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree on this.

Shalom :D

[Javehn]

what he wrote earlier was anti-sharon, which I sympathise with.

Would you say Europeans are more anti-semitic then say Israelis are islamophobic?

I don't have the number on the second , and even more on the first . So i can't answer on that , or compare them . What do you expect me to say ? I am not in guessing and mind reading bussiness , like many in here . And frankly my dear , i don't give a **** .

Sharon is a good leader , and i don't see many other Israeli politicians in Israel that can do better . That's enough for me , and many Israelies .

And if someone in Europe thinks something different , frankly they can lick my balls . Do what you want , and don't stick your nouses to other people bathrooms .

[radon]

I also think about this. What is the the biggest threat to world peace?

"Israel"

This could mean Israeli state , whole area, conflict and issue. This does not necessary mean the state Israel.

When people talk of "Israel" it means the area of Israel with the gaza and everyhing else and also the state of Israel with sharon etc , the palestinian places excluded.

The way tht question is asked is very misleading. First when I saw this , I thought about this. I am sure many would say yes to that question but not mean it literally. I think this has very a big part in this, but i dont think it will reverse the results or something big like that.

[UoUo]

before jumping to conclusions, consider this guy has posted before with bad english. In fact you have too Javehn, wait till he clarifies.

Yea ... Considering to what he allready wrote here on this thread , it's pretty clear what he tries to say , you know ?

what he wrote earlier was anti-sharon, which I sympathise with.

Would you say Europeans are more anti-semitic then say Israelis are islamophobic?

And what reasen the Europeans have to be anti - semtic?

In the other hand..the israelis have much more reasens to be Islamophobic.

[cut]

before jumping to conclusions, consider this guy has posted before with bad english. In fact you have too Javehn, wait till he clarifies.

Yea ... Considering to what he allready wrote here on this thread , it's pretty clear what he tries to say , you know ?

what he wrote earlier was anti-sharon, which I sympathise with.

Would you say Europeans are more anti-semitic then say Israelis are islamophobic?

And what reasen the Europeans have to be anti - semtic?

In the other hand..the israelis have much more reasens to be Islamophobic.

I know, I meant it as a point of measurment, though.


If you do want me to give you a reason (these aren't my beliefs) I would say because they make themself heard, they have power. And because they cry foul it creates more people think 'what are they moaning about?'. It's seen like the kid that goes to the teacher who called him an idiot or something and then when he goes back he gets hit then goes to the teacher again and the class get punished and every time it gets worse. It's a vicious circle.

This is only an idea of what a reason may be because I really don't know what causes it.

[radon]

This is imho. :roll:

- There are haters for everything and anything.
- historical reasons.
- perceived image of Israel conflict
- "A nation living in diaspora under many nations but still a nation with a common goal " A bit exaggerated but tried to get to the point. edit: I dont mean this worldjewry conspiracy b##ls#it
- very aggressive anti-antisemitism propaganda/ politics by some jewish organizations. I would reccomend being more relaxed. Imo a not so aggresive policy to this issue would make better results. Like that Jesus film , because society listens to them , this creates a strange impression.

[sethen]

anti-semitic :roll: so mr sharon tell me plz what the meaning of semitic :D

arabs r semitic too.. am i right? :roll:

Absolutely, 100% correct!!!!! Jews claim to be from Issac and Arabs from Ismael. Both were sons of Abraham!!!!!

[UoUo]

anti-semitic :roll: so mr sharon tell me plz what the meaning of semitic :D

arabs r semitic too.. am i right? :roll:

Absolutely, 100% correct!!!!! Jews claim to be from Issac and Arabs from Ismael. Both were sons of Abraham!!!!!

Oh stop this crap...anti semitic in those days and in the past mean Hate of Jews that it. don't play stupaid.

[S'13]

anti-semitic :roll: so mr sharon tell me plz what the meaning of semitic :D

arabs r semitic too.. am i right? :roll:

Absolutely, 100% correct!!!!! Jews claim to be from Issac and Arabs from Ismael. Both were sons of Abraham!!!!!

But the term anti-Semitism is used to describe the hate of Jews...


an·ti-Sem·i·tism (nt-sm-tzm, nt-)
n.
Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.
Discrimination against Jews.

http://www.dictionary.com/

[cut]

ignore them him he's just trying to be a smartarse

[sethen]

[quote=sethen]Me: Texas has far to many Jews and the Bush criminal gang are their flunkies!!!!!!!! :cantbeli: yes Texas has millions and millions of Jews and we control Bush and the U.S. :roll:

Texas has relatively few Jews. That is why the rest of the nation is stunned that such a minority can bend the majority of the state around their fingers. And its not just me talking about it either. Everybody who isn't a brainwashed protestant christian (the Texan variety) can't beleive an alleged secular nation builds it foreign policy on the Book of Revelations. :cantbeli:

Just curious can you tell me how many Jews are in Texas?

1. Not many

2. Countless scores of wannabe-be Hebrews fundalmentalist redneck
Christians, Israels greatest allies.

Because I thought that the Christians there had a big say, I didn’t realize it was all the Jews :roll:

jews=christians=jews

let me guess, you really belive I am at my location ;) :roll:

Can you give me grid cooordinate? Oi Vey!!!!!!rofl

[AROUETLJ]

There's nothing to clarify really, but what I meant was that if we want peace, let's try to start by having peace in this forum. The way it's going, tempers get flared and insults start flying. In a calmer and more rational situation certain things wouldn't have been thought, let alone posted.
I know Jews are hurt by antisemitism. But I am equally hurt by anti-Europeanism, and accusations of pan-European antisemitism, as if it were some institutionalised thing. Hatred comes in all forms, but no one holds the monopoly of hatred, or of suffering.

In short, to borrow a phrase used here, I defend the European Union, against one idiot at a time.

[Loco]

I read an article of Robert Fisk published translated in a spanish newspaper, originally it was published in The Independent:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/story.jsp?story=514651

You need to be a subscriber for reading the whole article, but I have the full article in spanish, so if there´s anybody interested, I´ll find it and I´ll write it here in spanish or I´ll try to do in english if there isn´t any volunteer translator, because my english is bad.
And to finish, I don´t accept as spanish being accused of being antisemitic: for me, this is a new bad thing I must load, like the islamic terrorism, something we couldn´t imagine just 5 years ago in my country: simply, this wasn´t in our horizon, in the same way spanish don´t expect being in war with China because they say spanish are anti-chinese. There were anti-semitism in Spain in the year 1600 or in Germany in 1934, but talking of anti-semitism in whole europe today is a bad joke to say the less, and an insult to the true victims of antisemitism in past times, and Europe are many countries, each country is different.
The opinions of Sharon are clearly biased with the purpouse of doing a criminal policy without facing any criticism. If Sharon is something he isn´t a moral authority. I care 0 what people like him can say about the good or the evil.
The worst of this anti-semitism or anti-anti-semitism is that you can´t talk quietly about the middle-east conflict, and that´s the final purpose of blaming people of anti-semitism.

[sethen]

My definition of anti-semitic: Anyone the Israelis don't like. Anyone who criticizes them. Anyone who interferes with their criminal activity.

[sethen]

Riddle me this: Whats the difference between the Ashkenazim and the Sephardim?

BTW I love Europeans!!!! :hug: rofl

[cut]

There's nothing to clarify really, but what I meant was that if we want peace, let's try to start by having peace in this forum. The way it's going, tempers get flared and insults start flying. In a calmer and more rational situation certain things wouldn't have been thought, let alone posted.
I know Jews are hurt by antisemitism. But I am equally hurt by anti-Europeanism, and accusations of pan-European antisemitism, as if it were some institutionalised thing. Hatred comes in all forms, but no one holds the monopoly of hatred, or of suffering.


the fool has a point!

[Javehn]

The fool has a point then .

So , we Israelies will now hold our breath . And let's see who will throw the glab next thread . Ok ?

[cut]

The fool has a point then .

So , we Israelies will now hold our breath . And let's see who will throw the glab next thread . Ok ?

the glab?

[Javehn]

glove . :oops:

[Pégase]

I had no problems with the jews at all, 'til I 've found this kind of thing :

http://boycottfrance.com/index.php

sponsored by the American Jewish Congress




a such thing is really inimaginable in France, you'll never see a Christian organisation go at a call to "boycott" a country, because it it would be seen as something unfair and reflect the contrary to the peacefull message of a religion for example

until I saw that, I really thought Shalom meant peace and that jewish religion message was peacefull
now when I see a such coward attack toward the economy of my country, I don't want to understand anything and I am really sad

[S'13]

Riddle me this: Whats the difference between the Ashkenazim and the Sephardim?



Ashkenazim are Jews who are descendants of Jews from Germany, Poland, Austria and Eastern Europe and Sephardim are Jews whose ancestors were among the Jews who were expelled from the Iberian Peninsula during the Spanish Inquisition or Jews who are from Middle Eastern countries by origin.

[Javehn]

I had no problems with the jews at all, 'til I 've found this kind of thing :

http://boycottfrance.com/index.php

sponsored by the American Jewish Congress




a such thing is really inimaginable in France, you'll never see a Christian organisation go at a call to "boycott" a country, because it it would be seen as something unfair and reflect the contrary to the peacefull message of a religion for example

until I saw that, I really thought Shalom meant peace and that jewish religion message was peacefull
now when I see a such coward attack toward the economy of my country, I don't want to understand anything and I am really sad

Let me quote something from that site :

"We are not calling for a boycott right now. Our goal is to inform the public of the anti-Semitic attacks in France, and the inadequate response from the French Government"

You find this horrible and discussting ? I understand that you saw the name of that site , and immidiatly thought , that it's calling for boycot France goods . They document antisemitism in France . Is that wrong ?

So , where are you from mate , Europe , France that is ? That was quick challenge .

Let's start it over again . We will shut up now , and let's see who will give the first punch .
Let's do it again .


בכל לשון של בקשה על תגיבו , תנו להם להגיב ראשונים בבקשה .

That wasn't ment to insult anyone .

[IDFM203]

Texas has relatively few Jews. That is why the rest of the nation is stunned that such a minority can bend the majority of the state around their fingers. And its not just me talking about it either. Everybody who isn't a brainwashed protestant christian (the Texan variety) can't beleive an alleged secular nation builds it foreign policy on the Book of Revelations. :cantbeli: please tell me how the Jews MAKE and FORCE the U.S. to bend its policy?

Oh and of course, because a lot in the U.S. support Israel and share the same values with Israel as the only democracy in the middle east, that doesn’t mean that Jews are pulling the strings there as you insinuated.


2. Countless scores of wannabe-be Hebrews fundalmentalist redneck
Christians, Israels greatest allies. yes so go take it up with them.

You said Jews and clearly you were wrong and now you backtrack into that it’s christen supporters of Israel :roll:

As for redneck, hell since we are stereotyping here, aren’t you from the south you stupid redneck?



Can you give me grid cooordinate?

As for my coordinates, yeah go keep on looking for that underground bunker, here for you I will say its in the south as you instituted before in other threads in the past so start digging ;) :roll:



I had no problems with the jews at all, 'til I 've found this kind of thing :

http://boycottfrance.com/index.php

sponsored by the American Jewish Congress


haha are you serious :roll: , you want to put up that one boycott by one Jewish organization against the many I can find in Europe about boycott Israel.

There is no compaerion!!

Here I already did it before I typed this message, type in the word “boycott Israel” in yahoo and google and you will see how absurd it was for you as a euro to cry about one Jewish organization that did this as compared to the many in Europe that have done this against Israel

btw oh and your French, gees the hypocrisy, your nation boycotted Israel after 1967 :cantbeli: :roll:


Shalom :D

[foxtrot023]

To tell the truth this thread is going nowhere fast.

As I said, unless there is a quantifiable study that says that right now, this moment, there is anti-semitism in Europe, please provide it. Likewise with news. Otherwise we are just expressing opinions, which may or not be true.

An example (not to start a flame war pls)

Often times you see and read in the news, that an israeli helicopter launched a missile to a hamas car, result: 3 terrorists dead, 2 children wounded, then comes a big outcry in the media, the muslim comunities protest, and the UN passes another resolution. Of course the israeli helo was not targeting passerbies. Of course it is not mentioned that many times, terrorists use innocents for precisely that reason, to create hate. But that is a result of the situation in that region.

So as a conclusion I would say, that no, there is not antisemitism in Europe (at this moment in time, let`s not go to the past), perhaps there is anti-israelism or an opposition against policies made by the israeli state (btw- the same would apply to the chinese government, the american government and nobody accuses us of being anti chinese or anti americans) in regards to the palestinian issue.

No flaming thanks

Regards

[Loco]

Ashkenazim are Jews who are descendants of Jews from Germany, Poland, Austria and Eastern Europe and Sephardim are Jews whose ancestors were among the Jews who were expelled from the Iberian Peninsula during the Spanish Inquisition or Jews who are from Middle Eastern countries by origin.
Regarding sephardites, it isn´t exactly like this. Jews whose ancestors always lived in Middle East aren´t sephardites, simply because they are only "jews", and jews always were being tolerated in Middle East, they never were expelled from there by muslims, and before muslims many jews remained in Palestina after the Tito campaing, but this is distubing to say because it breaks an argument of the anti-anti-semitic people. Sephardites comes from the word "Sepharad", the hebrew word for Iberia Peninsula(Spain and Portugal), so sephardites are only the jews with ancestors in the peninsula, which usually kept and old spanish language at home. Today, sephardites can have spanish nationality only living 2 years in Spain, the same like hispano-americans, and in the case of people living in war countries like former Yugoslavia, a handful of them were given spanish nationality without ever being in Spain. I´d like every sephardite living out of Spain comes to Spain if he wants, but I wouldn´t like they to have both spanish and israli passport.

[IDFM203]

To tell the truth this thread is going nowhere fast.

As I said, unless there is a quantifiable study that says that right now, this moment, there is anti-semitism in Europe,…………………………………………………………………….

So as a conclusion I would say, that no, there is not antisemitism in Europe (at this moment in time, ok you asked so click Here (http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/) for just one site that documents some of it!!

(Besides everything there, I suggest you look under the title TRENDS IN ANTI-SEMITISM and there are two interesting surveys done there as well)

btw I can understand the dispute in percentages but I have to respectfully say that for you to say that there is no anti Semitism at all is a very naive thing to say and I have to admit I was a bit surprised by that strong statement of yours.

Shalom :D

[foxtrot023]

To tell the truth this thread is going nowhere fast.

As I said, unless there is a quantifiable study that says that right now, this moment, there is anti-semitism in Europe,…………………………………………………………………….

So as a conclusion I would say, that no, there is not antisemitism in Europe (at this moment in time, ok you asked so click Here (http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/) for just one site that documents some of it!!

(Besides everything there, I suggest you look under the title TRENDS IN ANTI-SEMITISM and there are two interesting surveys done there as well)

btw I can understand the dispute in percentages but I have to respectfully say that for you to say that there is no anti Semitism at all is a very naive thing to say and I have to admit I was a bit surprised by that strong statement of yours.

Shalom :D

Well, I said that one thing is anti semitism and another would be anti israelism. Is there antisemitism? yes, narrowminded people are found everywhere so yes there is some antisemitism in Europe. Is it widespread? i don`t know. Not that I have seen it, but then again I am not jew. Personally, I think the majority of people don`t give a damn if you are jew, euro, american, chinese, martian, green or red, unless you behave like an ass.

What I said that perhaps there is antiisraelism, meaning an opposition to Israel`s decisions and governmental policies, but that doesn`t mean that Torquemada is heating up the stake, or that the polgroms are back in fashion, or that jews have to start using a label in their coat.

Regards and thanks for the links, I`ll read them

[foxtrot023]

To tell the truth this thread is going nowhere fast.

As I said, unless there is a quantifiable study that says that right now, this moment, there is anti-semitism in Europe,…………………………………………………………………….

So as a conclusion I would say, that no, there is not antisemitism in Europe (at this moment in time, ok you asked so click Here (http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/) for just one site that documents some of it!!

(Besides everything there, I suggest you look under the title TRENDS IN ANTI-SEMITISM and there are two interesting surveys done there as well)

btw I can understand the dispute in percentages but I have to respectfully say that for you to say that there is no anti Semitism at all is a very naive thing to say and I have to admit I was a bit surprised by that strong statement of yours.

Shalom :D

I have given the link a quick read. Very interesting the polls, I didn`t know how jews were viewed in Spain. Did you also know that there were no incidents against jews in Spain in 2003/4?

Regards and take care

[IDFM203]

foxtrot023,


Listen I understand all that, that site explores anti Semitism in the traditional sense as well as also a lot of what’s connected to Israel, but there is a lot there that isn’t directly about Israel.

Secondly indeed its not nazi Germany and indeed Jews aren’t being burned at the stake like for centuries, though attitudes and an increase in anti Semitic attacks do happen and they are on the rise as compared to ten years ago.

Lastly I have said this before in this thread, “there is anti Israel and legitimate criticism which I agree is NOT anti Semitism and if done honestly is welcomed (as we in our own society have very critical voices as well within us) and then there is outrages and false rhetoric and accepting of lies by many in Europe from a lot of clear falsehoods that a lot of the European media constantly writes that IMO crosses the line into clear anti Semitism.

IMO recently a lot of the latter has been seen in Europe.”

Shalom :D

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

What are the reasons for anti semitism there are many other minorities in Europe and Eurasia that do not attract the same attention.

[Truthsayer]

If the url to this thread would be sent to 1040 randomly selected Europeans, do you think they would become:

1. More anti-semite
2. No change
3. Less anti-semite


Take a second to think about it.


(Flames and off-topic reponses only shows that you lack the ability too...and are directed to /dev/nul)

[born_to_kill]

THE SWORD
OF
MILITANT ISLAM


In the name of Allah, Most Merciful and Compassionate(???)
Go Out and Kill Jews, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus!


INFILTRATE, OVERWHELM, SUBJUGATE AND THEN DEVOUR
Today It's the Gun and the Qur'an (Koran)...
Tomorrow It Will Be Nukes and the Qur'an

ISLAMIC CIVILIZATION?
What an oxymoron! Since when IS barbarism called civilization?
Islam is an anti-civilization cult par excellence. It destroyed every civilization it touched
and brought misery, poverty, ignorance and war in every country that it invaded!

FACT:
90%-95% OF ALL THE CONFLICTS ON THIS PLANET TODAY
INVOLVE MUSLIMS FIGHTING NON-MUSLIMS OR EACH OTHER!
ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

FACT:
1.4 BILLION Muslims in the World
280 Million Americans
5½ Million Israelis Surrounded by 350 Million Arab Muslims!!!

FACT:
OVER THE LAST FIFTY YEARS...
The world population of Christians increased by 47%
The world population of Buddhists increased by 63%
The world population of Muslims increased by 235%
Intermarriage, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Nazi Holocaust, pogroms
and over 100 years of unrelenting Arab/Islamic terrorism have taken its toll.
The State of Israel is the Jewish Peoples' last reservoir and stronghold against
the end of a five thousand year history! Sadly, over the last fifty years,
the world Jewish population has DECREASED by 4%


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THE SPREAD OF ISLAM: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Islam, Palestine, Moslem, Muslim, israel, israeli, israeli occupation, Intifada, Palestinian Intifada, Jihad, Holy War, Koran, Holy Koran, Middle East, Middle East Peace, Peace Process, Middle East Conflict, Arab, Israeli, Israel, Jews, bin Laden, Osama bin Laden

While the world fixates on its usual obsession... setting up Jews for a second Holocaust, Islam is also hard at work laying waste to major portions of the world and preparing to impose Islamic rule over everybody and extinguishing their respective non-Islamic civilizations.
"Are you nuts," you might ask? " After all, is not Israel their primary enemy?" But to think that all Islamic issues spring forth from the Arab-Israeli conflict and that only Israel is a target shows a naivety that only invites disaster down the road! After Islam finishes off Israel, their "Little Satan," all the other larger Satans will meet up with the Sword of Islam! America has already seen the spillover of Islamic terrorism... the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut with the loss of hundreds of U.S. marines, the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole naval ship off Yemen and now the 9-11-01 World Trade Center bombing in New York. Yet America has received but a small taste of what Islam has in store for them!

The world "ISLAM" is Arabic for "surrender" or "submission" to the will of Allah [God]. In the language of the Holy Qur'an, Islam means the readiness of a person to take orders from God and to follow them through. It is not derived from the word, "peace," as Muslims would have us believe! Look it up in any dictionary and see for yourself! Seeing a Muslim praying nearly flat on his face five times a day even projects the appearance of a master-slave relationship... a submission of sorts. And while the Muslim is submissive to Allah, all "non-believers" (Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Catholics, etc.) MUST submit to the Muslim. That's how THEIR God wills it to be!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Islam is today being portrayed as a peaceful and tolerant religion. History proves otherwise! Though there were certainly periods of relative tranquility and tolerance, minorities and non-Muslims have always been prosecuted under Islam. In fact, Islamic ideology is based upon an intense hatred of the non-Muslim. For Muslims, there exist two kinds of non-Muslim enemies... kafir (non-believers in Islam) and ahl al-kitab (People of the Book). Kafir, such as Buddhists and Hindus, must either convert to Islam or face execution. People of the Book include Jews and Christians. These people need only submit to Muslim authority to avoid forced conversion or death. Although they may keep their original faith, their status becomes dhimmi (a "protected," yet inferior non-Muslim status). So instead of outright forced conversion or slaughter, the Christians and Jews would be allowed to remain somewhat unmolested as long as they acknowledged the superiority of the Muslim. However, as 100,000 dead Lebanese Christians and Israel's beleaguered Jewish population have discovered over the years, these guarantees have proved worthless!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

The Holy Qur'an (the "Bible" of Islam) was inspired by Mohammed. No one knows his last name because Mohammed could neither read nor write. But one thing is for certain. Whoever wrote this sick collection of madness must have had his brain baking far too long in the hot desert sun of Arabia! The name "Mohammed means "Highly Praised" [or was he "Highly Crazed"].

In effect, Islam remains a religion of the Dark Ages. It is the most violent and intolerant faith that has ever been presented to mankind! A prima facie example of the insanity found within the Qur'an is the fascist, warlike notion of "Jihad," or "Holy War." Apologists for Islam say "Jihad" is one personal struggle to obtain a higher moral standard. But what it really represents is a violent military action (even terrorism) against the non-Muslim. If you don't quite believe this, visit Ground Zero where New York City's World Trade Center once stood!

For a clear explanation of what Jihad really is, click HERE

WHERE THERE'S SMOKE...
THERE'S MUSLIMS!

Until a nation has embraced Islam, it is legally considered a battlefield (Dar-ul-Harb). Once it has converted to Islam (or all its citizens have been slaughtered or driven out), it then becomes a Land of Peace (Dar-us-Salaam). For those who think that the threat of Islam is only a phenomenon of the Middle East, think again! Although the Jewish State of Israel has been fighting a brave and fierce battle against Islam for over 50 years, there are many other "hot spots" in the world.

For example, the supreme Taliban's hard line leader in Afghanistan, Mullah Mohammed Omar, issued an edict that Buddhist statues insulted Islam. Apparently no one clued in Mullah Mohammed Omar that Islam is an insult to humanity! In any event, within days of his edict, all Buddhist statues, including a giant 5th century Buddha at Bamiyan carved out of sandstone (see photos), were destroyed as the "civilized" world could only stand by and watch it happen.

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Unfortunately, most people aren’t aware of Islam's murderous philosophy or they find it too monstrous to believe. However, a brief review of recent history and current events should make you doubters out there re-think your position. Two articles in the L.A. Times wrote about Muslims in Indonesia forcing Christians of all denominations to convert to Islam or get their throats slit. Thousands upon thousands of Christians were first converted and, according to rigid Islamic religious dictate, forced to undergo ****** mutilation of their foreskin or clitoris (with kitchen knives and razor blades) to make them conform to Muslim standards. Then they were are enslaved to their local Muslim chieftain. This was not some aberration of Islam but rather business as usual for all but the so-called "moderate" factions. This is Islam's sad legacy of murder, terror, lies and brainwashing to advance their cause of global conversion and subjugation... their so-called "personal struggle"... THEIR "Jihad!"

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Other examples: Algeria is wracked by bitter fighting between Islamic Fundamentalists and the military. Death toll, 100,000 over a ten year period! Nigeria is in the midst of a war in which Muslims are murdering Christians and burning down their churches. Moslems against Christians. It doesn't take much to trigger an angry mob of Muslims. The Miss Universe Pageant was help there at the end of 2002. Muslim opposition to the pageant boiled over after a local journalist wrote that the prophet Mohammed would have approved of the contest and might even have wanted to marry one of the contestants. The ensuing riots in Kaduna left 220 dead and 400 wounded. In Kenya the Islamic Party has declared Holy War on the government. In Turkey the secular Muslim government is being challenged by the militant Refah Islamic Party. A civil war rages in the Sudan between Muslims in the north against the Christians in the south. Sudan's militant Muslim regime is slaughtering Christians who refuse to convert to Islam. In recent years, more than two million Sudanese have been killed out of a population of 35 million as its government used bombings and famine in its war on its own people. A war also raged between Muslim Eritrea and Christian Ethiopia. The result of fighting between Muslim Azerbaijans and Christian Armenians was 35,000 casualties. Armenia was shrunk because of territory "gained" by the "breeding-with-a- vengeance" Muslims population. Serbian Moslems looted Christian treasures in the process of destroying 107 churches and monasteries, both ancient and modern. In the former Soviet Union, breakaway Muslim republics (and their 55 million Muslims)... Chechnya (click HERE), Daghestan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan... have sparked insurrection against Orthodox Russian regimes and by the year 2050, Russia will be forced out of Central Asia by Islamic invaders from without AND within (Muslims have a birth rate 5 times that of non-Muslim Russians). The Great Russian Bear will be driven into permanent hibernation!

Will non-Islamic nations be forced to build a "Giant Wall" as China did to keep out the Islamicized Monguls? Will the electronically-enhanced, concrete wall the Israeli I.D.F. recently erected keep out the Arab-Palestinian terrorists?

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Ten thousand Lebanese Christians were massacred in 1860s, while over 100,000 were killed in the Lebanese civil war of 1975-1990. Thousands of women were raped. That war was provoked by Yasser Arafat's PLO. Damour was once a thriving Christian Lebanese village until 500 (primarily young boys) were massacred and its population was expelled. This sort of violence and intolerance symbolizes treatment of Christians by Muslims in the Middle East. And, instead of an international arrest warrant Arafat received a Nobel Peace Prize!

Even non-Muslim Christians under Palestinian-controlled areas ["West Bank" and Gaza] are not faring so well. Bethlehem was 70 percent Christian in the 1970s. Today it is close to 70 percent Muslim. The growing Islamization of Palestinian society makes Christians very uncomfortable. The size of the Christian Arab community in the West Bank may have fallen as low as 10,000, a drop of 50 percent since the mid-1990s.


"Holy Land: Christians in Peril" ... $19.90
Order Online Or call Toll-Free 1-800-496-3266

Why have two million Christians fled the Middle East in the last twenty years? One of the most important aspects of the Israeli-"Palestinian" conflict that has been overlooked is the plight of Christians in the Holy Land. Christians in the "Palestinian" territories have dropped from 15% of the Arab population to just 2% today! This Christian exodus is a result of many factors, including the fighting between Israelis and "Palestinians," the related decline in the economy, but perhaps most significantly, the religious persecution these Christians encounter from their Arab Muslim neighbors. This film is a documentary containing interviews with Christians as well as exclusive footage showing how dangerous their situation is under Islamic rule.

Continuing on... Uighur Muslim separatist terrorists are active in Western China's Xinjiang Province. The Philippines is nearly 95% Catholic/Christian yet the Muslim rebel group called Abu Sayyaf (“Bearer of the Sword") have aligned with bin Laden's al Qaeda and want their own independent Islamic Nation. Kidnapping for ransom is so common here that the Philippines has often been described as the kidnapping capital of the world! War rages between Indonesian Muslims and the Christians in East Timor. Malaysia is a time-bomb ready to explode between Muslims and the minority Chinese and Indian populations.

Indonesia is composed of seventeen thousand islands that stretch over five thousand miles along the equator. Most are Muslims but there are substantial Christian, Hindu and Buddhist minorities. Christian churches were almost wiped out in a single weekend in Indonesia. One of Indonesia's islands is Bali. Most of Bali’s 3 million inhabitants are Hindu and hundreds of Hindu temples are part of its scenic beauty. Unlike other parts of Indonesia, Bali has maintained a relaxed, tolerant lifestyle, immune from the strife wracking the country in recent years. Hundreds of thousands of annual vacationers flock to Bali's luxury resorts and black beaches. They may no longer! On October 12, 2002 deadly explosions ripped through two popular nightclubs in the Kuta Beach area on Bali island, Indonesia, a destination popular with international tourists. The death toll from the bombings -- most recently confirmed at 187 -- is expected to rise as authorities believe there are still more than 200 people unaccounted for. Many of them are Australian holidaymakers. The scent of C4 explosives (similar to that used to blow up Israelis!) was everywhere which leads one to conclude that Muslim/Islamic terrorists had a hand in this... specifically, the Jemaah Islamiah group.

Islamic terror comes to India's streets and the new terrorists are not preoccupied with the "liberation" of Kashmir from India, their objective is a wider jihad aimed at changing India into an Islamic State. Yes, the Hindus in India have met the Sword of Islam and even burnt alive for refusing to accept Islam. Estimates go as high as a Muslim kill rate of 80,000,000 in Greater India! With 200 million Muslims being 20% of India's population, civil war can break out any time. It's even worse in Israel where Israeli Arabs number 23% of the Jewish State's population! See The Cancer Within.

Islamists in the 83 % Muslim country of Bangladesh aspire to establish a true "Islamic Republic" much like Afghanistan under the Taliban. Meanwhile, [according to The Nation magazine] members of minority religions have suffered from ghastly violence, including collective terror. Some Buddhists and Christians were blinded, had fingers cut off or had hands amputated, while others had iron rods nailed through their legs or abdomen. Women and children have been gang-raped, often in front of their fathers or husbands. Pakistani Muslim soldiers raped a quarter of a million Bangali women in 1971 after they massacred 3 million unarmed civilians. This atrocity is not considered a sin in Islam, because the religious leader of the soldiers decreed that Bangladeshis were infidels. In addition, hundreds of temples were desecrated and statues destroyed; thousands of homes and businesses looted or burned. As for Hindus, the human rights organization Freedom House reports they have been subject to "rape, torture and killing and the destruction of their cultural and religious identity at the hands of Muslims." In one indicative step, Islamists sometimes force Hindu women to dress in the Islamist fashion.

Colonel Khaddafy and his Libyan army have carried out numerous military excursions into neighboring Chad. Even Egypt's Christian Coptic community (less than 10% of the population) walks a fine line between tolerance and oppression.

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ISLAM MAY BECOME THE
GREATEST MURDERING FORCE
IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND
Islam has replaced the Soviet Union as the Evil Empire
and its "best days" may lie ahead as the forces of Islam gather steam!!!

First the Saturday People... (click link)

The Muslims have a saying: "First [destroy] the Saturday People (Jews)... then the Sunday People (Christians)." And when the Muslims tire of killing or converting non-Muslims, they go after other Muslims! The ten-year Iran-Iraq War resulting in the deaths of over one million deserving Muslims was said to have been fought over a land dispute. This is not entirely true for the underlying hatred between two conflicting views of Islam was the major spark that ignited this conflict.

Most of the so-called "moderate" Arab nations are scared to death of radical Islamic movements for they represent a most real physical threat to their continued absolute rule. For that reason alone, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait and all the other fictitious kingdoms throughout the Middle East gladly pay cash AND lip service to the most vicious of the Arab, Palestinian and Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists. The United States government, the State Department and other apologists may call them "friends" and "allies" but, in reality, they have nothing whatsoever in common with America. They are theocratic, backward and share NONE of the democratic traditions so valued in the West. "Friends" and "allies?" Hardly!

ATTAINING "CRITICAL MASS"
Among every four humans in the world, one of them is Muslim.
Islam is now the second largest religious group in France, Great Britain and USA!

There is no point in beating around the bush. The fact is that Islam is a militant, intolerant, incendiary religion whose adherents, whenever they establish "critical mass" of about 10 percent of a given population, begin to foment violence, revolt and Jihad --- in essence, a declaration of war on Western Civilization. A World War Three!

Battleground Europe...
by 2020 Muslims will account for 10% of the overall population of Europe

Don't think that Islamic activity is confined only to the Third World. Today, Muslims invade civilized countries under the benign guise of immigration. Their influence in Europe is growing steadily and will continue to do so unopposed until the Europeans finally wake up, although it's hard to tell if they can do it in time to save themselves. In fact, immigration accounted for 89 percent of Europe’s population growth during the 1990s! When Christian society was mighty, Muslim society was timid. Western Christian countries have lost their fervor. Many have acquired Muslim fifth columns, which they tolerate regardless of insults to the host countries. But now the Europeans are starting to panic. Their women cannot possibly reproduce as quickly as can fertile Muslim women! In thirty years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.... a 25-fold increase... nearly one-half million Muslims in London alone! This Islamic invasion is obviated by the sight of over one thousand mosques littering the British landscape. Even London itself has become a main launching pad for much of the pro-Islamic, pro-Arab and pro-Palestinian Internet propaganda! Over the past 20 years, say experts, Britain has become a headquarters for extremist Muslim clerics and a fertile recruitment ground for new followers.

In 30 years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.


Finsbury Park Mosque in North London, a Base for Islamic Extremism

Muslims in Britain have made it clear that they have no intention of assimilating. Dr. Zaki Badwari, former Director of the Islamic Cultural Centre of London wrote, "A proselytizing religion [like Islam] cannot stand still. Islam endeavors to expand in Britain. It aims at bringing its message to all corners of the earth. It hopes that one day the whole of humanity will be one Muslim community, the Umma." Britain operates as a strategic base for some of the most radical Islamic groups which preach hatred, incite to violence and recruit volunteers for terrorist activities. Britain now has one of the highest concentrations of closed-circuit TV cameras in Europe... nearly 1.5 million in operation! In late May 2001 the Brits were treated to their very own Muslim-Pakistani rioting! There is something deservedly humorous that this should happen to the pro-Muslim Brits who waste no time dumping on Israel! God Save the Queen! For more on Radical Islam In the U.K. click HERE. To see a partial list of Islamic Groups infesting England click HERE. Click HERE for more on how Muslims are transforming British society!

Two of Europe's most legally tolerant regions...namely, the Dutch-language areas around Europe's most important west coast harbors, Antwerp [Belgium] and Rotterdam [Netherlands]... as the main breeding ground for Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups. Osama bin Laden 's organization even runs shipping companies as fronts from Amsterdam.

Something rotten in Denmark? How about the 200,000 Muslim immigrants trying to dictate their anti-Israel, anti-America and anti-Western values upon 5 million Danes? Even though they represent only 4% of the population, the Muslims consume upwards of 40 percent of welfare spending. They also account for 65-75% of the country's convicted rapists... with almost all victims non-Muslim Danes! Demographers have predicted that in just 40 years, one out of every three Danes will be Muslim. At this point, we're sure the Danes wish it were their Jewish population which was growing faster than rabbits on a hot tin roof. Jews are almost always model citizens! But the Danish Jews only number 6,000.

Dateline Sweden: Cold temperatures have not discouraged Muslim immigration. One out of every 22 Swede are now Muslims and Islam is the nation's second largest religion. Of the nearly 9 million people in Sweden, 400,000 are Muslim, leading to a drastic increase in anti-Semitic acts against Sweden's 18,000 Jews. Say farewell to the stereotypical blue-eyed, blonde haired Swede.

In Holland [aka The Netherlands], because of its total lack of anti-terrorism laws and its very high level of religious, cultural and judicial tolerance, Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups are allowed to thrive. The Muslims now number about 6% of the population. In 20 years' time the majority of Holland's under 18 year old children will be Muslim. In fact, 50 per cent of the newborns during the next twenty years will be Muslim! A finger in the dike won't work this time, folks!

Two million Muslims have soaked into Germany; one million into Italy; 200,000 in Spain; 500,000 in Belgium...1/10th its entire population and 1/4 of Brussels, its capitol city. Half of all babies born in Belgium are now Muslims! In total, 11,000,000 Muslims have saturated Western Europe! It now becomes clear just who is organizing and marching in Europe's anti-Israel and anti-American demonstrations!

In Italy, 95% of all rapists are Muslims. Eighty-five percent of all murderers are Muslims. Ah, such a wonderful religion of peace! What does the Pope and the rest of the Vatican Church have to say about this? Nothing! And what will the ordinary Italian say when, in ten years, Muslims will be the majority in Italy!!!

France is faring no better. In 1945, there were 100,000 Muslims in France. A fifty fold increase since then now has them numbering 6 million out of a total population of 60 million! In twenty years, one out of every five Frenchmen will be a Muslim! Another telling statistic is that although the Muslims are 10% of France's population, 60% of the country's prison population are Muslims! All the urban suburbs are steered by Moslem black African or Arabic gangs. One-fifth of all births in France are Muslims! Mohammed is one of the most common names next to Pierre! And Paris has the largest Arab community outside of the Middle East! This is a result of a lenient immigration policy, high Muslim birthrate and conversions. A very high proportion of French Muslims are in the underclass, that segment of the population that relies not so much on education and work as on welfare and predatory activities. In fact, over one thousand Muslim neighborhoods are under monitoring throughout France. Seven hundred of those Muslim neighborhoods are listed as "violent" and nearly 400 hundred are listed as "very violent." Violence ranges from rape (95% of rapists are Muslim), murder (85% of murderers are Muslim), theft and looting of cars (58% committed by Muslims) and street fighting to assault on teachers and civil servants. Periodic outbursts of large-scale unrest or rioting sometimes occur. And, most distressing, are the high numbers of assaults or rebellions against the police. As does England, one thousand mosques are said to operate in France. Oh, mon dieu, what is a Frenchman to do! Click HERE for an audio of what Frenchmen (and all other cowardly, appeasing Europeans) should do because "Buddies, you're next!" Also, check out "The Death of France."

There are 14 to 17 million Muslims now live within the European Union. If only a minuscule fraction of the growing Muslim fundamentalist population of Europe were to join bin Laden's holy warriors (or some of the many Arab/Muslim/Islamic terrorist groups), internal-security officers would confront nightmare scenarios!

For more on "Islam's Immigrant Invasion of Europe" and sources of the above information, click HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE


ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"


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AMERICA'S ISLAMIZATION
CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) spokesman Ibrahim Hooper indicated in a 1993 interview with the Minneapolis Star Tribune that he wants to see the United States become a Muslim country.

Before Americans start pitying the poor Brits (who truly deserve a good bashing from Islam), they should checked their own neighborhoods! Besides Louis Farrakan's Nation of Islam, the Black Panther and New Black Panther Parties with all their black wanna-be Muslims, there are also REAL Muslims and their communities are springing up everywhere. In 1970 there were an estimated one-hundred thousand Muslims in the United States. Today, a mere 34 years later, the number is approximately 7-10 million! More than a quarter of a million people of Arab descent live in southeastern Michigan, making the area the second-largest Arab community outside the Middle East (after Paris, France). One frightening example of their prolific growth in American is Dearborn, Michigan. Of a total population of 90,000 Dearborn residents, 25,000 are now Arabs! And of all the Dearborn children under the age of 18, a full 58% are Arab children! Other developing centers of Arab/Muslim growth are Florida, Texas, New Jersey and California. God Bless America!

Every year huge numbers of Arabs/Muslims from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwaitis, Syria, Egypt, Albania and dozens of other ethnic Muslim states who hate America swarm into the United States and add to the already increasing numbers of Arab/Muslim. And every year hundreds of mosques, which preach the extermination of all non-Muslims and the Islamization of America, are being added to the thousands already pointing their minarets skyward. The vast majority (80%) of American mosques are funded with Saudi Arabian money and most subscribe to 18th century Wahhabism that calls for the spread of Islam through violence. Many mosques, "Islamic Learning Centers" and Arab/Muslim Student Unions are distributing large numbers of pamphlets and leaflets attacking Judaism, Christianity and other non-Muslim religions and urging young Americans (esp. angry black Americans) to convert to Islam! Not surprisingly, a large number of African-Americans convert to Islam while in the prison systems! The National Islamic Prison Foundation, which coordinates a campaign to convert inmates to Islam claim an average of 135,000 such conversions per year. And if thousands of self-hating, Leftwing Jews hadn't already converted to Buddhism, they too might be targeted!

The nerve of these evil people to exploit the freedoms given to them here in America and other democracies when their goal is to extinguish ALL freedom!

Many Arabs in America are a disloyal fifth column. They work relentlessly to undermine the U.S. struggle to survive in the face of the growing Muslim terrorist threat. The huge Muslim birthrate, Muslim immigration, the massive expansion of Muslim religious and educational institutions that convert Christians to Islam and the purchase of major U.S. companies by Muslim oil sheiks are all also part of their strategy. America's great friend (???), Saudi Arabia, from whose land came fifteen of the nineteen September 11th Arab hijackers (who flattened the World Trade Center, a portion of the Pentagon and made a very big hole in a Pennsylvania field), has for some time been spear-heading the spread of Islamic doctrine. The Saudis have wholly or partly financed some 210 Islamic Centers (check out this one in Boca Raton, Florida!!!), more than 1,500 mosques and 202 colleges and almost 2,000 schools for educating Muslim children in non-Islamic countries in Europe, Asia, South America, Canada, Australia and America. Check out the mosque near you and look for Islamic propagandists exalting the virtues of Islam to appear soon in YOUR kid's school. Speaking of schools, watch them try to infuse Islam and Islamic rights INTO school systems! Did you know that some Islamic schools in America are teaching hatred toward American Jews and Christians? And what about regular North American colleges and universities? Check out one of the so-called "social activities" of the M.S.A. (Muslim Student Association)! And don't forget to pick up the U.S. Postal Service's new 34 cent Eid-il-Mubarak stamp!

Note: For a better appreciation of the colonization of Arab/Islamic terror squads arrive, colonize and flourish in America and how they interconnect, recruit, raise money and use the American freedoms and legal system as a cover. [see booklist at bottom of page]


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CANADA DOESN'T HAVE A PRAYER!

The U.S.- Canadian border is 4,000 miles long. Nearly all of this runs along territory which can never be fortified! Those seeking to sneak into the United States can do so by simply crossing waist high streams or forested areas. Geographically, Canada is the largest nation on earth [nearly 6.2 million square miles] yet her population is but a puny 28 million. The earliest record of a Muslim presence in Canada dates back to 1871 when the Canadian census recorded just 13 Muslim residents! One hundred and ten years later in 1981 there were 98,165 Muslims. And now, just 20 years after that last census, there are 400,000 Muslims in Canada! There are more than 80 mosques in Canada, four of which are located in Ottawa alone. In addition to mosques there are numerous locations in most major cities where space (known as musallah) is set aside for prayer purposes. In fact, Muslims now outnumber the Canadian-Jewish population and Islam is now the fastest-growing faith in Canada. One out of every fifty Canadians is a Muslim!

News Flash: Not all of these Muslims drive taxis! Experts estimate that there are at least 50 international terrorist organizations operating in Canada, including al-Qaida. Many of them are campus organizers pushing forward their anti-Israel and anti-West agendas. Thus, on September 9, 2002 on Montreal's Concordia University, violent clashes erupted between riot police and Arab/Muslim demonstrators preventing a speech by former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. So much for free speech and democratic values. Is this the sort of "secular, democratic state" that Arafat and his "Palestinian" nation-builders envision?

For a while there was talk about the province of Quebec (containing both Montreal and Quebec City) separating from Canada and forming its own government. Perhaps in time the Muslims will want a chunk of Canada for their own Islamic Republic!


For more on "Islam's Immigrant Invasion of North America" click HERE


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IT KEEPS GETTING WORSE...

Every single Muslim country on this planet is brutal dictatorships. Make no mistake about it. Islam is on the move and is prepared to extinguish any and all civilizations that get in its way. Muslims are fundamentally non-assimilatible. Many foot soldiers of Islam have been sent to the four corners of the globe to "blend in" as "sleepers" and form future terror cells to await the call for action. Islam stands out among "religions" for its murderous tendency wherever it builds up to "critical mass," typically 20% or more of a given population? (France, Belgium and the Balkins ALREADY have at least a 10% Muslim population!) How many countries have been, or will be, partitioned or redrawn to accommodate Islamic constituencies? With the world's Muslim population now DOUBLING every 35 years, the trends are clear and these processes are irreversible. Unless the civilized world resists and fights back, Muslims will vanquish the planet within a few decades. Only THEN will the "civilized world" know what devilish barbarism and uncompromising rigidity Israel has for so long been up against!!!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. One out of every five people in the world is now a Muslim! One out of every three babies born in the world today are Muslim. Apparently the Muslims can still breed with a vengeance much faster than they can purge each other off the planet. Interestingly, there are no "hate groups" in 'Islamic countries. They don't need hate groups as long as hate is institutionalized right from the local mosques! For sure the most dangerous time on the streets for non-Muslims is right after the mosque prayers end on Friday evening!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

There seems to be no end to the limitless supply of willing Jihadist martyrs volunteering into the service of Allah. In the Israeli/Arab-Palestinian conflict alone, Muslim children rush forward to confront Israeli soldiers (guarding Jewish settlements) with rocks, Molotov Cocktails, iron bars... all in the name of Islam. Summer camps for Palestinian children teach not how to sing and play but rather how to fire automatic weapons and properly strap dynamite onto their chests! They are taught a hatred of Jews and a love of death... right from the cradle! Click HERE for "Seeds of Hatred" Audio/Video

The vast majority of Muslims, even in the West, are loyal and wedded to basic Koranic values. At best, they are passive supporters of fundamentalist and militant Islam and hope for the eventual destruction of Israel; at worst, they are vocal (or active) supporters of the Arab suicidal/homicidal bombers and plot for the eventual transformation of Western, democracies into Islamic nations. This is not to say there aren't Muslims who are "good" people; obviously there are. But Muslim culture, values and outlook is warlike, violent, undemocratic and with a set of rules and values diametrically opposed to Judeo-Christian teachings. Will the Muslim world ever change or try to compromise? THIS is indeed unlikely for they have declared that "any compromise is impossible for us since the Islamic Laws were laid down by Allah himself, not by men!" So the next time you feel like lecturing Israel on how to get along with the Muslim world, think instead how YOU will get along with that same Muslim world when they come looking for you!






Induction Into the Service of Islam...
or Maternal Instincts Turned Inside-Out!

"The only way Muslims can have assurance of salvation and eternal life is by becoming a martyr for the cause of Islam... dying and killing for the cause of Islam is not only an honor, but also a way of pleasing Allah." .... From Reza F. Safa, author of Inside Islam.

For Audio File on Islam's Children Martyrs click HERE



WARNING: WORLD WAR THREE IS UNDERWAY and it's much more sinister than you could have imagined. When did it start? Fourteen centuries ago. Who started it? An insane pedophile named Mohammed who, along with his gang of terrorists, formed the savagely oppressive, dehumanizing religion of Islam.

Through centuries of fanatical conquests (Jihads) and terrorism (when Jihads failed), Islam has metastasized into a modern day world cancer. As we speak, the civilized world is beginning to collapse under it and has no idea how to react. How does one stop a grotesque cult which will settle for nothing less than TOTAL world domination? So while the U.S. looks under every rock for Osama bin Laden, the bloody borders of Islam are closing in on all sides... for in fact EVERY American Muslim has the potential to become a bin Laden or an abettor of a bin Laden!

Even a Jew-basher/Israeli-basher like Pat Buchanan has it correct when he wrote... "In population, Islam is exploding, the West dying. Islamic warriors are willing to suffer defeat and death, the West recoils at casualties. They are full of grievance; we, full of guilt. Where Islam prevails, it asserts a right to impose its dogma, while the West preaches equality. Islam is assertive, the West apologetic – about its crusaders, conquerors and empires. Don't count Islam out. It is the fastest growing faith in Europe and has surpassed Catholicism worldwide. And as Christianity expires in the West and the churches empty out, the mosques are going up." WorldnetDaily-12/7/01

An impending disaster lies ahead. Unfortunately the U.S. military cannot help for it was always preparing for the wrong war. Soviet or Chinese communism was never driven by such fanaticism. Besides, the Russians stayed in Russian and the Chinese in China. By contrast, the Soldiers of Islam are spreading into all societies... first as simple shop owners and cab drivers, then students, then student activists, then violent agitators and finally assassins and bombers. Look for a mosque to appear soon in YOUR neighborhood.



SUGGESTION
Christians, Jews and Hindus should really think about joining forces instead of getting on their knees like young girls begging not to be gang raped!




* * *






FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...
"HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?"

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise...

"There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"

It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of God."

For much more on "PARADISE... A Better World?" click HERE

.




.
UPDATE 9-11
LOOK FOR MORE LOW-FLYING 757s


-- September 11, 2001 NYC World Trade Center Towers --
Islamic Fundamentalist fanatics conduct a Wall Street "transaction!"
We are facing an enemy that will not rest until they are either successful in destroying our blessed nation or destroyed themselves!
(Don't say we didn't warn you!)

Some Americans will continue to portray the September 11, 2001 attacks as the work of a lunatic fringe rather than of a global religious movement. The perpetrators of the attacks in New York and Washington are being portrayed as Muslim "extremists" when in fact, they were "faithful" Muslims. Most of the Muslims in America are also "faithful" to Islam. Don't say we haven't warned you about this either!

Another thing... If you're a Western European and are feeling sorry for Americans, don't bother. Your countries are ALREADY Muslim-infested beyond salvage! Southern France has more mosques than churches. In fact, 10% of Frances "Frenchmen are Arabs! (And France thinks Israel is a sh**y country!!) And to all you other Europeans who sell out Israel for Arab oil, you too will soon have YOUR September 11th. Guaranteed!

Warning to Americans: As long as you continue to be force-fed a daily sanitized version of Islam by corrupt media outlets like CNN or a State Department campaign declaring that America is at war against terrorists but not Islam, your Middle East policy will continue to be marked by failure and your interests both home and abroad will remain in danger.







IS THE WEST AT WAR WITH ISLAM?
Definitely Not

IS ISLAM AT WAR WITH US?
OH, YEAH!


The New Anti-Semitism Driven by Islam
.

L I N K S

All About Islam
Hindu View of Islam
Anti-Muslim Society (A.M.S.)
Frequently Asked Questions About Islam




BOOKS


Militant Islam Reaches America $18.17
by Daniel Pipes

Maybe There Is Some Hope!

The Trouble With Islam $22.95
by Irshad Manji

.In a Nutshell Series presents...
"Anti-Semitism and Islamic Expansionism"

[Kilgor]

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/457_1083285176_europeantisemitism.jpg

[UkrainianAmerican]

...
First decent cartoon in the thread.

[cut]

bollocks to that

[Airborneranger4israel]

anti-semitic :roll: so mr sharon tell me plz what the meaning of semitic :D

arabs r semitic too.. am i right? :roll:

you are partially correct that arabs are semetic. But semite is more commonly used as a term for jews. Infact the conference was on anti-semitism (jew haters) in europe. Go to www.ajc.org to learn more.

[born_to_kill]

and i love people compare sharon to hitler.

If sharon wanted, the whole palestinian people can be whiped out in a week

[Airborneranger4israel]

Foxtrot no offense man but the spanish shouldn't be saying anything right now. I don't know if you agreed with the new prime ministers desicion to pull troops out of Iraq but you should at least acknowledge the view that pulling out is giving in to the terrorists demands. Anyway all i'm saying is that it probably isn' the best idea to stir things up. :backhand:

[cut]

Foxtrot no offense man but the spanish shouldn't be saying anything right now. I don't know if you agreed with the new prime ministers desicion to pull troops out of Iraq but you should at least acknowledge the view that pulling out is giving in to the terrorists demands. Anyway all i'm saying is that it probably isn' the best idea to stir things up. :backhand:

bull**** stop repeating what other people say without understanding it.

[foxtrot023]

Foxtrot no offense man but the spanish shouldn't be saying anything right now. I don't know if you agreed with the new prime ministers desicion to pull troops out of Iraq but you should at least acknowledge the view that pulling out is giving in to the terrorists demands. Anyway all i'm saying is that it probably isn' the best idea to stir things up. :backhand:

dude, get a clue. :roll:

1. We did not give in to ANY terrorist demand. Name it, common, tell me which one?
I should tell you that the pullout was an electoral promise done several months ago, well before the terrorist attack. Sure the way is being done might not be the best, our soldiers are pissed, but the PM has being saying he would pullout since the moment Aznar sent them in.

2. Personally I do not agree with the decision to pull out, but we have a democratically elected PM that says otherwise. I don`t like it, but he is doing it anyways. It is a sovereign decision, and as such, all democratic countries should approve whether they like it or not.

3. Please, tell me how I am stiring things up? IDFM and I had a nice chat (and not the first). I got his point, and I am sure he got mine.

Regards

[foxtrot023]

foxtrot023,


Listen I understand all that, that site explores anti Semitism in the traditional sense as well as also a lot of what’s connected to Israel, but there is a lot there that isn’t directly about Israel.

Secondly indeed its not nazi Germany and indeed Jews aren’t being burned at the stake like for centuries, though attitudes and an increase in anti Semitic attacks do happen and they are on the rise as compared to ten years ago.

Lastly I have said this before in this thread, “there is anti Israel and legitimate criticism which I agree is NOT anti Semitism and if done honestly is welcomed (as we in our own society have very critical voices as well within us) and then there is outrages and false rhetoric and accepting of lies by many in Europe from a lot of clear falsehoods that a lot of the European media constantly writes that IMO crosses the line into clear anti Semitism.

IMO recently a lot of the latter has been seen in Europe.”

Shalom :D

No problem, I understand what you are saying as well. However please take into consideration that the media will always try to get the most sensacionalist news out in the open (that goes for all kinds of media in all countries) without giving full facts. I personally think that that hardly means there are lost of anti semitic folks in Europe (there are, for sure, but the average joe cares more about their football team than about the Israeli- Palestinian problem).

as always nice talking with you.

Regards

[Celareon]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks3.jpg

[Lobo]

Just two questions.

Imagine for a moment there was peace in Middle East. Do you really think there would be that so called "anti-semitism" in Europe? You are mistaking disaproval to the ocupation of Gaza and West Bank (and all what is related) and racial prejudices against Jews.

This is one for anyone who can help me. Does anyone here statistics of Israel's trade? I'd like to know the destination of Israel's export and its trade agreements with the USA and EU, just to confirm something I heard. It could be very interesting for our discussion about "what the **** Europeans have made for Israel".

[foxtrot023]

Just two questions.

Imagine for a moment there was peace in Middle East. Do you really think there would be that so called "anti-semitism" in Europe? You are mistaking disaproval to the ocupation of Gaza and West Bank (and all what is related) and racial prejudices against Jews.

This is one for anyone who can help me. Does anyone here statistics of Israel's trade? I'd like to know the destination of Israel's export and its trade agreements with the USA and EU, just to confirm something I heard. It could be very interesting for our discussion about "what the f*** Europeans have made for Israel".

Exports - partners:
US 39.2%, Belgium 6.5%, Germany 4.4%, UK 4.2% (2002)

Imports - partners:
US 21.6%, Belgium 8.9%, Germany 6.7%, UK 6.6%, Switzerland 4.9%, Italy 4.5% (2002)

Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html#Econ

Regards

[Lobo]

Double post.

[-Max2-]

Exports - partners:
US 39.2%, Belgium 6.5%, Germany 4.4%, UK 4.2% (2002)

Imports - partners:
US 21.6%, Belgium 8.9%, Germany 6.7%, UK 6.6%, Switzerland 4.9%, Italy 4.5% (2002)



Interresting. Didnt know that Belgium was Israel's second largest trading partner in the world after the US... :|

And Sharon called us an "anti-semitic" country... :roll:

[UoUo]

Exports - partners:
US 39.2%, Belgium 6.5%, Germany 4.4%, UK 4.2% (2002)

Imports - partners:
US 21.6%, Belgium 8.9%, Germany 6.7%, UK 6.6%, Switzerland 4.9%, Italy 4.5% (2002)



Interresting. Didnt know that Belgium was Israel's second largest trading partner in the world after the US... :|

And Sharon called us an "anti-semitic" country... :roll:

:cantbeli: :cantbeli:

Belive me..if belgium would no befit from this...they will cut the trading...
You don't do to us any favour...

And fo **** sake...you don't get it? we don't talking about the gov'..
The people....the people.....the gov' are anti israel...not anti semtic....and I do belive that most of the europeanian aren"t antisemtic.

But most of them are anti israel.

And btw...ton's of times things from israel change there name...euro spike...euro orange and so on... rofl

[n.ignomo]

Dance of the hypocrites... this is called political, economical and diplomatical. A country which disagree with the whole others will keep trading because of economical reason. The only little fool which don't do this is our old Kim. On this forum I see political and military, but there isn't that much economic. Dude, we live in a world of economics and everything big powers do has to be compared with its economical goals. The most of the wars have not been done for political reason..or not only for these.

[-Max2-]

Belive me..if belgium would no befit from this...they will cut the trading...



:roll:

We dont agree on all but we are not your enemy. Our foreign minister even visited Israel and meet Sharon a few months ago...


You don't do to us any favour...

Well, you also benefit from the trade with us so we make you at least one favour... ;)


The people....the people.....the gov' are anti israel...not anti semtic....and I do belive that most of the europeanian aren"t antisemtic.

But most of them are anti israel.

Maybe, but most Europeans simply dont care about whats going on in Palestine you know. The only ones who are really "anti-Israel" and "anti-semitic" are the Muslim minority... :|

[big80a2]

I think that loads of criticism against Israel are more like a feeding ground for anti Semitism. Normaly people care more about there own soccerteam than the conflict. But so often when I see them looking at the news and than saying things like: 'The stupid jews" and so on.
Thats the danger because when you ask them are you anti Semitism they say: ofcource not!! that is the feeding ground that can be so quikly be used, and that is what most jews fair.... It hasn't got to the "stage" jet but it could grow the wrong way. Just look how easy Europe turned into a hating machine against jews??

About the anti Semitism among muslims living in Europe. This should not be an excuse to not fight it. And when looking at my dutch goverment I think they are saying like: "no, we are not anti Semitism.. there is but thats among muslims" But I think they should act against that really hard.
Thats should be the part that we call: "learning from history"
Also Muslim youngster have a lot of influance on schools etc. they are often the "cool guys" for other youth so there idees are often verry much acepted. So IMO anti Semitism is a real problem and should be acted against.

chears

[IDFM203]

Good post big80a2 :D

I just want to say something on this anti Israel but not anti Semitism.

Like I said before legitimate criticism is not anti Semitism, but a lot of us see and read so many clear and out rages falsehoods that is constantly portrayed in your media about Israel and some of the rhetoric and lies IMO do cross into anti Semitism.

Israel as the only Jewish state is in a lot of Europe’s eyes a evil or a illegitimate state ( I hope I am wrong on that but I fear I am not) IMO because of the medias WORNG portrayal of it where it has portrayed Israel extremely unfairly and negatively in a outrages and FALSE way and all this is especially compared to a lot of the other conflicts around the world (which gets very little attention) or even how they themselves have fought in wars (even in the recent NATO campaign in Bosnia where I could go on how they were less restrained in civilian urban areas then we were with our conflict) when IMO it did so with a clear bias against it (there is a lot that hold it’s the media that shapes perceptions and I have come to believe that) where all that does lead to anti Semitism.

Secondly I would like to make one other point, I realize a lot here from Europe have a problem when Jews mention that there is anti Semitism, and to that you have to understand that in the 1930’s Jews and others were SILENT in face of what was clearly going on and yet we saw how it festered to where we lost over 6 million of our own simply because they were Jews (and indeed others lost millions of their own as well) so when we say never again, besides that meaning we will defend ourselves next time (or to anyone that fights to destroy us), its also never again to remain silent about it.

To all those that have kept this conversation reasonable, I say thanks and I guess this forum is good in that at least we can communicate with each other and perhaps understand each other a bit more and that is a good thing.

And to the flamers here well it was good to see your opinions as well ;) , you only reinforce to me why the IDF is so important and vital to us :D

I thank you for that ;)


Shalom :D

[UoUo]

Belive me..if belgium would no befit from this...they will cut the trading...



:roll:

We dont agree on all but we are not your enemy. Our foreign minister even visited Israel and meet Sharon a few months ago...


You don't do to us any favour...

Well, you also benefit from the trade with us so we make you at least one favour... ;)


The people....the people.....the gov' are anti israel...not anti semtic....and I do belive that most of the europeanian aren"t antisemtic.

But most of them are anti israel.

Maybe, but most Europeans simply dont care about whats going on in Palestine you know. The only ones who are really "anti-Israel" and "anti-semitic" are the Muslim minority... :|

In the first line i think you got we wrong cuz my bad english.

Any way...when is see people like mustnumo that say that our country shouldn't be there...i am scary...or people that can't understand that "right of return" of the pal' can never be done.


And it not important if no one cares....but still when they hear about the conflict the lack of inforamation they lead them to support the pal'...just cuz the media.

[MEGR]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks3.jpg

Hehe.. I agree.. This discussion has already been beaten to death by every Israeli, Euro, and American.

[sethen]

Exports - partners:
US 39.2%, Belgium 6.5%, Germany 4.4%, UK 4.2% (2002)

Imports - partners:
US 21.6%, Belgium 8.9%, Germany 6.7%, UK 6.6%, Switzerland 4.9%, Italy 4.5% (2002)



Interresting. Didnt know that Belgium was Israel's second largest trading partner in the world after the US... :|

And Sharon called us an "anti-semitic" country... :roll:

Didn't Belgium try to indict Sharon for his part in the Palestinian refugee camp massacres? If so, thats why he calls you anti-semites. Your courts are supposed to be for their purposes exclusively. You can only indict America or Israel's enemies for war crime right???? :fork:

[IDFM203]

oh wait did they indict those that actually killed the pali’s in shabra and shatlia...ahh that’s right don’t indict them but rather just Sharon.

I mean can you tell me who else this court has indicted??

I am really curious to know if its anyone OTHER then Sharon (and last I was rumseflid as well) has been indicted.

I mean any one in africa, in europe etc..???

Oh and Israelis enemies, please can you name one Arab that they indicted, oh that’s right they are all angles and only Israel deserves to be indicted :roll:

As for America, no Sharon got indicted first and no one cared but then when the U.S. got some of its own indicted all of a sudden you and everyone had a hissy fit :roll:

so no its the other way around in that they can indict Israelis all they want and no one cares but when its one of your own you go all crazy and demand that this court be shut down (which I agree with).

Shalom :D

[pinkeye]

according to the anti-defamation league, anti-semitism is omnipresent in the united states, so pointing the finger squarely at europe is dangerous. a poll conducted in 2002 indicated that anti-semitism was on the rise in the u.s., with 17% of americans having "hardcore anti-semitic beliefs". 17% equals 35 million americans.
here are the results from 2002 poll:

Major Findings

Anti-Semitic attitudes are up; the most widely held stereotype is that "Jews have too much power in the U.S." The poll found 17% of Americans were "most anti-Semitic" in their views, while another 35% were in the "middle" category, holding neither prejudiced nor unprejudiced views, but not completely prejudice-free in their attitudes toward Jews. The survey based its findings on an "index of anti-Semitic beliefs" used by researchers in previous surveys in 1964, 1981, 1992 and 1998. The survey found that 48% of the American public is prejudice-free in their feelings toward Jews, down from 53% in 1998.

Less educated Americans continue to be more likely to hold anti-Semitic views. Race and age also continued to play roles in determining anti-Semitism. However, new stereotypes about "Jewish power" in the U.S. have replaced many of the classical ethical stereotypes previously attributed to Jewish Americans. In the 2002 survey, 20 % of Americans agreed with the statement "Jews have too much power in the U.S. today." Nearly three-quarters (72%) of those in the most anti-Semitic category believe that Jews have too much power.

Anti-Israel feelings are triggering anti-Semitism. For the first time, negative attitudes toward Israel and concern that American Jews have too much influence over U.S. Middle East policy are helping to foster anti-Semitic beliefs. Slightly more than half of Americans (51%) said the U.S. has been tilting too much toward Israel, while three-quarters of the most anti-Semitic Americans (73%) said they felt this way. While 41% of Americans say their sympathies are more with Israel than with Arab countries, sympathies are more closely divided among the most anti-Semitic Americans (29% sympathetic to Israel versus 23% sympathetic to Arab countries.) The most anti-Semitic Americans were four times as likely (42%) to believe that American Jewish leaders have too much influence over U.S. foreign policy than Americans holding non anti-Semitic beliefs (11%).

"We have said that anti-Israel feelings are linked to anti-Semitism, and the responses from Americans in this poll make this connection clear," said Mr. Foxman. "Anti-Israel sentiments are used in this country to fuel, legitimize and rationalize anti-Semitism."

Those Americans who believe that Jews have too much influence over U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East; that U.S. policy tilts too much toward Israel; that the U.S. is more likely to be targeted for a terrorist attack because of American support; and who see increased anti-Jewish activity around the country and world, have a significantly greater likelihood to fall into the most anti-Semitic category.

Previous polls conducted during two contentious moments in the U.S. - Israel relationship found that the upper-educated Americans were highly critical of the Israeli governments at that time. However, these upper-educated Americans were also the least anti-Semitic of all Americans. The 2002 survey tells a different story. The analysis reveals that attitudes toward Israel are actually fostering anti-Semitic beliefs among some Americans.

Anti-Semitism among foreign-born Hispanics is extremely high. The survey uncovered, for the first time, that Hispanic Americans who were born outside of the U.S. are much more likely to hold anti-Semitic views than Hispanics born in the U.S. In both this survey, which included an oversample of 300 Hispanics, and a previous 2001 survey of 1,000 Hispanic Americans also conducted by ADL, a portrait of two very different Hispanic communities emerges, each holding very different views of Jews and tolerance in general.

Forty-four percent (44%) of foreign-born Hispanics fall into the most anti-Semitic category, while only 20% of Hispanics born in the U.S. fall into this category. As a result, it is only foreign-born Hispanics whose anti-Semitic propensities are significantly above the national average. Perceptions of "Jewish control," influence and power as well as more traditional canards about Jews, religion and ethical practices appear to be driving anti-Semitism among foreign-born Hispanics. For example, more than half of foreign-born Hispanics (55%) agree with the assertion that "Jews don't care what happens to anyone but their own kind." Forty-four percent (44%) of Hispanics born outside the U.S. agree with the assertion that "Jews were responsible for the death of Christ," compared with 26% of those born in the U.S.

Campus faculty and students are the least anti-Semitic among Americans. Anti-Semitism on U.S. college campuses is virtually non-existent. Only 3% of undergraduates, and 5% of faculty fall into the most anti-Semitic category. Fully 74% of undergraduates, and 79% of faculty, are prejudice free.

"The campus findings are paradoxical, coming at a time when anti-Israel rallies, divestment drives and other pro-Palestinian activism on college campuses stemming from the Mideast conflict have been at an all-time high. Many of the anti-Israel rallies led to expressions of anti-Semitism, which is why we selected this particular group for polling," said Mr. Foxman.

"The good news is that the overwhelming majority of students and faculty have by and large rejected the hate being promulgated by a select few. Too often, anti-Israel activism crosses the line into anti-Semitism in an environment where there is none. The bad news is that there is a silent majority on campus that is not speaking out against anti-Semitism."


tragically, anti-semitism is a problem everywhere and this is simply unacceptable.

[sethen]

the ADL is Israels unofficial domestic intelligence gathering agency in America. Anything it says is non-credible.

[sethen]

The ADL is Israels unofficial domestic intelligence gathering agency in America. Anything it says is non-credible.

[Haiw]

oh wait did they indict those that actually killed the pali’s in shabra and shatlia...ahh that’s right don’t indict them but rather just Sharon.

I mean can you tell me who else this court has indicted??

I am really curious to know if its anyone OTHER then Sharon (and last I was rumseflid as well) has been indicted.

I mean any one in africa, in europe etc..???

Oh and Israelis enemies, please can you name one Arab that they indicted, oh that’s right they are all angles and only Israel deserves to be indicted :roll:

As for America, no Sharon got indicted first and no one cared but then when the U.S. got some of its own indicted all of a sudden you and everyone had a hissy fit :roll:

so no its the other way around in that they can indict Israelis all they want and no one cares but when its one of your own you go all crazy and demand that this court be shut down (which I agree with).

Shalom :D
Err...the court didn't start anything against anyone. It's just that their rules alow anyone to sue against anyone worldwide (though I'm pretty sure they want to change it). So if there's no lawsuit against Palestinians then that's your fault, not the Belgians fault. :roll:

[radon]

Yes, somebody should have sued the Palestinians.

But didn't Powell pressure force Belgium to change this system last year or so??? Could also be I remember wrong

[Lobo]

I'm back..

I mentioned economy, because this week one lecturer told us about the trade agreements between Israel and the USA and Israel the European Union. Yes, you talk a lot about IDF, anyway this is a website on military issues. The fact is that the state of Israel wouldn't exist nowaydasy if it weren't by American loans, military aid and trade... What I would like to know if the weight of the European trade in Israel... And yes, trade is about profits, selling and buying goods. But setting a low tariff to those goods is another way of aid. (Remember what poor countries say "trade, not aid").

[IDFM203]

Ok Haiw thanks for clearing that up :roll: (hey like you I will throw that in as well ;) )

Anyway my point is to counter sethen’s that he made it seem like all sorts of people are being charged and when an Israeli is charged we cry foul simply becouse its an Israeli (I mean we have reasons for being upset about it but not on that simply becouse he is Israeli) when that’s not the case and in fact I am not sure if any others besides Sharon (and later on some U.S. officials) were tried (and indeed you explained why) and that in fact it was only after a U.S. official was charged did they go all crazy and demand the court to stop or something like that.


according to the anti-defamation league, anti-semitism is omnipresent in the united states, so pointing the finger squarely at europe is dangerous. I agree with you for indeed there is a lot of it in the U.S. as well; I mean we have sethen here to prove that ;)

Though on percentage terms it’s a bigger problem in Europe and IMO it’s more pervasive there then what you find in the U.S.

But yes its in the U.S. as well.


The ADL is Israels unofficial domestic intelligence gathering agency in America. Anything it says is non-credible. :cantbeli: first of all you are all over the map here :roll:

You throw out these one liner charges left and right and I debunk them and then you don’t respond but you go on to the next bull**** one liner that you have, like here :roll:

Ok you say the ADL is spying for Israel, how so? Oh and concrete proof please.

Also you say its not credible, so are you saying that anti Semitism doesn’t exist in the U.S. (I know its absurd asking YOU this but what the heck…….)


The fact is that the state of Israel wouldn't exist nowaydasy if it weren't by American loans, military aid and trade... Yeah so a 120 billion a year economy and it gets 3b something from the U.S. is a argument for complete dependence or not being able to exist without the U.S. :roll:

Also what does this have to do with this thread????????????


Listen again no one is saying that everyone in Europe is anti Semitec or that we shouldn’t have trade with Europe or relations with Europe, what we are saying is that there are growing percentages amongst the Euro population that are anti Semitic and that is a problem and all the smokescreens here that a lot of you have put up doesnt negate that fact.

Shalom :D

[gilgoul]

gilgoul why did you bring back this thread? it's just asking for someone to flame it

You are right, big mistake :cantbeli:
But at least, it let`s me see what are the true opinions of our fellow forum ghosts, and it`s not that nice. :fork:

[Haiw]

Ok Haiw thanks for clearing that up :roll: (hey like you I will throw that in as well ;) )
Well it's nothing personal, it's just that I get pretty tired that everytime everyone rips on Belgium while they don't really have anything to do it; pretty much all they do is provide 'the medium'.

[-Max2-]

Didn't Belgium try to indict Sharon for his part in the Palestinian refugee camp massacres? If so, thats why he calls you anti-semites. Your courts are supposed to be for their purposes exclusively. You can only indict America or Israel's enemies for war crime right????

Ah ****, this stupid law again... :roll:


But didn't Powell pressure force Belgium to change this system last year or so??? Could also be I remember wrong

Correct. This law no more exist in my knowledge...