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Seraphim
11-24-2003, 07:06 PM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/iraq


By MARIAM FAM, Associated Press Writer

MOSUL, Iraq - The killings of two U.S. soldiers, who witnesses said were dragged from their car and pummeled with rocks, offended some in this neighborhood of dilapidated houses and potholed streets where the deaths occurred. But few Iraqis were shocked by the brutality, and some even gloated.

"They are occupiers, and this is their punishment," truck driver Hisham Abed said Monday of the soldiers. "The Americans make nothing but empty promises. There's no electricity, no gasoline and no work."


Gunmen ambushed a U.S. patrol here Monday, wounding one soldier. Nevertheless, Mosul, Iraq (news - web sites)'s third-largest city, was been among the safest areas for American soldiers, a place where U.S. troops could stroll bustling streets and frequent stores and cafes.


Armed attacks have been fewer in Mosul than in the volatile "Sunni Triangle" to the south. Commerce flourishes, and Iraqis feel safe enough to venture out at night to a far greater extent than their countrymen in Baghdad and other cities.


However, anti-American feeling still simmers beneath the surface. It exploded Sunday, when assailants shot two U.S. soldiers driving through the working class neighborhood of Ras al-Jadda, sending their vehicle crashing into a wall.


According to witnesses, an Iraqi mob, most of them teenagers, dragged two bloodied soldiers from the car, threw them to the ground and pummeled their bodies with concrete blocks — scenes reminiscent of the savagery in Somalia against American troops a decade ago.


A few accounts said the soldiers' throats were cut — either by the attackers or by the mob. But witness Bahaa Jassim said the wounds appeared to have come from bullets.


Military officials said Tuesday there was no evidence the soldiers' throats were slashed.


A military official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Army has no indication the men were beaten with rocks or that their bodies were mutilated. The official said Iraqis robbed the car they were driving and stole personal effects from the soldiers' bodies.


The Pentagon (news - web sites) identified the soldiers killed in Mosul as Command Sgt. Maj. Jerry L. Wilson, 45, of Thomson, Ga., and Spec. Rel A. Ravago IV, 21, of Glendale, Calif.


The violence didn't set well with everyone in Mosul.


"We have our beliefs. It's not right to maim dead bodies, even if they were our enemy's," mechanic Ahmed Yaseen said. "We're a free people and we want freedom.... But if they (the Americans) leave, the law of the jungle will prevail."


Others, however, had little sympathy for the Americans.


"They kill people and barge in on families at night," Abdullah al-Mulla, who works in a gas station, said of U.S. forces. "If an American came to my house at night and took me away in front of my children, I would have to take revenge."


Such feelings are deeply held in a culture steeped in traditions of vendetta. Revenge killing is considered a moral act, even if the victim had committed no offense and was marked for death simply because of his identity.


"This is normal. If someone is killed his family has to take revenge," said Abed, the truck driver. "The Americans kill people by mistake and then apologize the next day. This doesn't work here."


Such opinions underscore the deep-seated problems facing the U.S. occupation as it seeks to win over the Iraqi population with aid projects and promises of a better future.





Because Mosul has been relatively calm, the 101st Airborne Division has been able to focus on improving infrastructure and the quality of life to a greater extent than military units elsewhere, which face a more serious insurgency threat.

Nevertheless, attacks against Americans and Iraqis who cooperate with them have been steadily increasing in Mosul. Late Saturday, Col. Abdul-Salam Qanbar, who was in charge of police who protect oil installations, was gunned down while heading to a mosque with his 8-year-old son.

Two weeks ago, 17 soldiers were killed when two Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Mosul; it remains unclear whether they were hit by hostile fire. It was the largest loss of American lives in a single incident since the Iraq war began March 20.

Previously, the people of Mosul have not endured the frequent armed raids, intrusive searches and other measures that have outraged Iraqis in cities like Tikrit, Fallujah and Baqouba.

Nevertheless, many Iraqis with no firsthand experience with the Americans are keenly aware — through friends, relatives or television — of raids and accidental shootings during the U.S. occupation.

Some Iraqi and U.S. officials blame the Arab media for focusing on bad news from Iraq. After the fall of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime, many Iraqis bought satellite dishes to take advantage of the new freedom to watch international broadcasts.

On Monday, Iraq's Governing Council warned Arabic language media to avoid reports which incite violence and ordered the Dubai-based Al-Arabiya satellite television station to stop reporting from Baghdad until it agrees not to "encourage terrorism."

"I would like to you know that we are serious in fighting terrorism and the Governing Council will exert more efforts," Jalal Talabani, current head of the council, told reporters. "We will have an active political, media and military role against terrorism."

Also Monday, a Sunni Muslim religious leader called on U.S. forces and resistance groups to observe a one-week cease-fire to allow the Iraqis to celebrate Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of the holy month of Ramadan this week, media reports said.

Adnan al-Duleimi, the head of Iraq's Sunni endowments, appealed to guerrillas to cease operations for a week and also called coalition troops to stop raiding houses and chasing locals. His comments were broadcast by Arab satellite channels.

Near the northern city of Kirkuk, an oil pipeline was on fire Monday. Ghazi al-Talabani, chief regional security coordinator for the Northern Oil Co., said the fire was "another of the acts of sabotage to which our oil pipeline has been subject."

California Joe
11-24-2003, 07:09 PM
Quote:
By MARIAM FAM, Associated Press Writer

"They are occupiers, and this is their punishment," truck driver Hisham Abed said Monday of the soldiers. "The Americans make nothing but empty promises. There's no electricity, no gasoline and no work."

Someone should rape his wife and throw him in a woodchipper. F*cking asshole. Find your own goddamned work. They're like welfare recipients with AK's and attitude problems.

SFontaine
11-24-2003, 07:12 PM
You're why people think American's are uncaring ignorant morons.
It's called and opinion. It's what the US brought to Iraq. Freedom of speech. Its their right as free citizens to say what they want.

Jack Mehoff
11-24-2003, 07:28 PM
You're why people think American's are uncaring ignorant morons.
It's called and opinion. It's what the US brought to Iraq. Freedom of speech. Its their right as free citizens to say what they want.

Well, MORON! Maybe it's Joe' freedom of speech to express his opinion too.

budanski
11-24-2003, 07:29 PM
... and its California Joes right to rebut whatever that moron has to say.

California Joe
11-24-2003, 07:30 PM
You know **** about my opinions.

That asshead has the right to blame us for running Saddam out of the country so he could make retarded statements about the deaths of our soldiers. Replace the word "Americans" with "Uday" and see how long he would have lived previously.

Oh yeah, blow me.

Haiw
11-24-2003, 08:09 PM
Oh yeah, blow me.
when your wife doesnt want to wash your socks anymore, you come over here asking us to do it for you as well?

jdbjdb
11-24-2003, 08:17 PM
What are the chances of getting the Iraqi's who committed these murders? Perhaps if a reward is offered for info on the Iraqi's who took part in the murders it might help a bit. Europe knows this, one day perhaps the Arabs will know that our SuperPower status does not mean we are miracle workers, Iraqi's expect us todo everything, and snap our fingers and everything will be just fine.

NcDeuce
11-24-2003, 08:19 PM
U.S. Troop Deaths Offending Some Iraqis


I hope so. Any decent human being should be.

VorpalDoom
11-24-2003, 08:45 PM
Funny how a truck driver states that there are no jobs, and american "occupiers". Occupiers? I suppose this is where some people get the idea that Americans are Imperialists.

If anyone is thinking that, let me get this straight.

If we were imperialists, we would control all of Mexico, and Canada, and the islands, and everything to Panama. If we were imperialists, we would control all of Japan, North and South Korea, North and South Vietnam, the Phillipiens(sp). Also, we would control portions of western Africa, and south west Europe.

I hope nobody is thinking were imperialists, hell, look at where Canada is. Its not part of the USA.


Death in general offends me, especially when people support it. The USA tried for 12 years to compromise with Saddam, without being violent, or forceful with military force. I don't like seeing the civilian death toll rise in Iraq, nor do I like seeing the military death toll rise, on either side.

But, eventhough the Iraqi civilian death toll, may be up to 75,000 or so, as some people claim (who knows why.), Saddam, acording to published numbers, in 12 years killed aprox. 2,000,000 Iraqis, IMO, thats genocide, can anyone smell Hitler?
Do the math, and you find that a little under 500 Iraqis a day died under Saddam's rule. The USA has been in iraq, what, 8 months, starting on the 9th.

Now, if you have any sense of numbers and simple math, and counting, you would come up with the numbers nearing 120,000 to 125,000. Imagine that many civilians, dead, in Iraq, if saddam were still in power, sense March 20. Hard to belive? I don't think 120,000 civilians have died in Iraq, at the cost of over 300 non-iraqi soldiers. With numbers alone, I belive that death totals, and insults acording to death are asanine.

I know a US Marine that died in Iraq, yes, I shed tears, but his family was greatful, that he died for a cause, and something he belived in, and I respected that.

People should simpily be respectful, happy, and proud that someone gave thier life, for something they belived in. Not a single Coalition soldier in Iraq doesn't want to be thier, unless they are just plain stupid. at least in the USA, I know that if you are an enlisted soldier, you can say, I dont want to go. You simpily will not go, or you will find yourself doing desk work, and as far away from combat as possible.

These soldiers died for not only the USA, and protecting this country, they died for Iraqis, and the saftey of others around the world, including Kuwaities(SP) Israelis, Jordanians, and others. Respect for someone dying is simple. Regardless of what country you are from. If a German soldier died protecting his home, and his family, in a foreign country, I respect that man's decision, and, even if he may have been an enemy of the USA at some time, I still belive that he died for a cause, hardly on my side of the opinion, but for his own cause, and respect should be payed.

Fioraon
11-24-2003, 11:05 PM
If there is no gas then why must I ask is the trucker well... driving a truck?

SFontaine
11-24-2003, 11:34 PM
This board is so funny.
My entire time here I defend the US and it's policies, I defend pro-US members and shun anti-American ones and then I call out someones clear ignorance and I'm insulted.
Love double standard :)

StarvingStudent47
11-25-2003, 12:34 AM
With the exception of the last paragraph, I agree with everything VorpalDoom said. People should read it again. Best post here.

Nawlins
11-25-2003, 01:45 AM
With the exception of the last paragraph, I agree with everything VorpalDoom said. People should read it again. Best post here.

What's wrong with the last paragraph?

100_Percent_HOOAH
11-25-2003, 02:29 AM
The damn Iraqis expext their water, power and everything under the sun to be done in a matter of weeks. They should be grateful we've accomplished so much already! Look at the time frames it took us to rebuild many of the war torn countries after WW2; Iraq shows the huge advancement we've made in nation building over the years. The iraqis that mostly complain about our progress and express hatred for us, are the ones that are and always will be saddam supporters. Look at where a lot of it's coming from.. places like Tikrit..of course the Iraqis in saddams hometown are anti-US to the bone, it won't matter what we could do for them.

wholagun
11-25-2003, 03:00 AM
Well, MORON! Maybe it's Joe' freedom of speech to express his opinion too

How is he a moron? :|

All he did was excerise his right to free speech as Joe, youself and the rest of us.

You can't claim to love free speech, then call someone a moron for having a differnt opinion as you.

Are you a moron just because your opinion is differnt then mine?
No.
Then why is he one?

Jack Mehoff
11-25-2003, 03:02 AM
Well, MORON! Maybe it's Joe' freedom of speech to express his opinion too

How is he a moron? :|

All he did was excerise his right to free speech as Joe, youself and the rest of us.

You can't claim to love free speech, then call someone a moron for having a differnt opinion as you.

Are you a moron just because your opinion is differnt then mine?
No.
Then why is he one?

I used his own syntax. Any question? Beside, what do you know about freedom of speech in Iraq? It's like Canada actually contributed anything to give that Iraqis truck driver to said what on his mind.

You're why people think American's are uncaring ignorant morons.
It's called and opinion. It's what the US brought to Iraq. Freedom of speech. Its their right as free citizens to say what they want.

wholagun
11-25-2003, 03:28 AM
I used his own syntax Funny I did the same for yours


Beside, what do you know about freedom of speech in Iraq?

Me? Nothing?


It's like Canada actually contributed anything to give that Iraqis truck driver to said what on his mind.

We got a small army. Thats a fact. However we do have troops in Afghanistan.

California Joe
11-25-2003, 07:36 AM
Oh for Gawd's sakes I was just being cranky.

Oh and Haiw, get over here and wash my socks. ;)

Saranof
11-25-2003, 04:48 PM
You know **** about my opinions.

That asshead has the right to blame us for running Saddam out of the country so he could make retarded statements about the deaths of our soldiers. Replace the word "Americans" with "Uday" and see how long he would have lived previously.

Oh yeah, blow me.


As the americans promised a smooth takeover, and job,s electricity, water, food, and so on, many Irquis were thrilled when they ousted Saddam.
Well, there is no electricity. No water. No jobs. People are pissed. So would you be. They probly think that the americans are just as bad as Saddam, you would if you were in their place.

California Joe
11-25-2003, 05:00 PM
Frankly, I was being an asshole on purpose.

But come on, there are no smooth anythings when you're trying to restore services and your people are being shot, or their throats are being slit. It would seem logical that the most pissed off Iraqis would be the ones that prospered during Saddam's reign. Suddenly they don't matter, they aren't important. So now they're like the rest of the general population. There is no electricity because of Baathist sabotage, water likewise, don't drain every inch of wetlands in your country and then whine when we aren't unloading Perrier fast enough. Jobs would be nice I suppose if we were sure you weren't going to cut our throats in the bathroom. We can't start Subway franchises till we figure the employees won't be carbombed. These people are brainwashed and fearfull and extremely ignorant. It's not their fault but they are dangerous.