poppy stomping, anyone?

[Caribou Kid]

How come the war on terror has taken priority over the war on drugs to such a degree that the influx of the new poppy harvest has not been obliterated from the face of the earth? Is this not an unmatched opportunity to go in once and for all, and rid the world of the scourge of that evil cash crop? What is the point of being in the region and not making full use of this chance? How much closer to the drug growers do you have to be? Short of being in a processing plant, I would have thought that the rolling poppy fields of Afghanistan was the very heart of the heroin/opium menace.

What better opportunity will there be to initiate a "hearts and minds" campaign to reform the locals planting/harvesting habits? Would it not be 100 times easier/cheaper/better to co-ordinate from a dusty camp in Kabul or Bamiyan than from comfy, air conditioned DEA headquarters in Florida, or Washington DC? With the profusion of UAV's, concentrated satellite coverage/imagery of the area, and quietly inserted "observation posts" scattered throughout the place, why can't the supply even be disrupted for just ONE YEAR? A mere harvesting season. Even if the coalition withdraws from the country in a few years, :| think of the MASSIVE benefits the civilized world would reap by purging almost HALF of the supply in the world for a whole year or two!
Yet, the respective governments of the MANY nations in the region (all of which have Heroin/Opiate dependancy programs back home, I am quite confident) choose to turn a blind eye. Does anyone else think this is illogical? :roll:
I understand that the "War onTerror" takes priority over all else. Full Stop. But to focus and concentrate on one aspect of an area to the exclusion of all else borders on becoming tunnel vision, does it not?

Couldn't this period be used as an opportunity to instill a new sense of worth, or self image, or even self esteem by educating the local folk in the appropriate techniques and methods of planting OTHER viable cash crops, besides the deadly red flowers of dependance?
Okay, we all know that soya beans and sugar cane don't pay nearly as much, but then again, you only have to sell your crop to a farming collective that will give you a (reasonably) fair price for your yield, Unlike the poor peasants who sell gummy resin to local warlords, and thereby perpetuate the cycle of dominance/stand over tactics that have long been associated with the region.
If the same circumstances involving UAV's, air assets etc., were in place in, oh..say..Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam (Yes, Golden Triangle region, you guessed correctly...) fighting the war on terror, would the same "we don't give a flying fu<k.." attitude be shown by the nations of the world?

I look forward to your replies

"This is my keyboard. There are many like it, but this one is mine..."

[Royal]

1. There are insufficient assets in theatre to prosecute 'GWOT', without getting side tracked in another aspect of the security situation in Afghanistan.

2. The Afgans do not believe the coalition will remain in the country - look at the various 'invasions' over the past 150 years - they're probably right. Therefore they feel the need to retain a cash crop to provide when western aid (what little there is) dries up. Opium is that proven crop. Sure we could destroy the crop with very little effort, but the effect on 'hearts and minds' campaigns there would be catastrophic. Whether it would be worse than the effect caused by heroin addiction in our towns and cities is a different question.

[Saranof]

They need to get the Afghans jobs. That's gonna make them popular amound normal people, and erase the need for opiumgrowning.
To a certain extent that is

[California Joe]

*putting needle in arm* Huh?

[martinexsquaddie]

half the friendly northan alliance made there money through drug sales.
rule of law stops just outside of kabul.
war on drugs is a failure if a half dead junkie with mobility problems can get hold of afgan heroin in a small seaside town in the UK 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
I leave you to draw your own conculsions on how the war on drugs is going :lol:

[Caribou Kid]

California Joe, good to see you got your insulin in time. Do you keep jelly beans handy too? :P

Okay, there is a definate limit to how far outside the Kabul city limits you can go and still get away with your "zany" UN ideals and principles before you get to see the wrong end of an AK up close. That is a given. So you might not be able to establish too many job recruiting centers, or universities, factories,shopping malls etc, in outlying, remote regions.(read:poppy growing areas) They are probably going to remain rural, agricultural societies for the immediate future. (Yeah, and Rome wasn't built in a day, I hear you say.)

My answer is..So what...isn't a little "accidental" defoliation or "stray" White phos/thermite arty rounds a real risk in a warzone? :) How about this one:"Oops, I jettisoned my drop tanks prematurely over your crop fields while jinking around AAA. Uncle Sugar will repatriate you.By the way, could you not grow drugs next time? Thanks..."

Come on....The DEA has bucketloads of staff assigned to dealing with Columbia. Not to mention Mexico/Canada, but I realise there is always the common-border aspect in that instance, as opposed to a foreign country in an entirely different continent, in the case of Afghanistan OR Columbia. I suspect there is probably a pretty good ******* between the US Embassy DEA attache in Bangkok and his Thai counterpart, too. But Afghanistan?... Nada. Bugger all. WTF?

Is the stability of keeping the ruling warlords/provincial leaders on-side really worth this price? Do you honestly think so?...Okay, it is a wartime situation. I acknowledge that, and the peculiar circumstances that can occur in such an environment. That said, the whole idea of the Western world/US bugging out is pretty much a foregone conclusion; everyone pretty much knew there wasn't gong to be a Subic/Clark/Gauantanamo-like long term presence. It was always gonna be "in-and-outta there", like, and not "Hey, lets be Roomies" sort of deal, if you follow my drift. p-) (sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's the Starbucks talking. Damn you, Coffee God!)

Besides...What else do they have to offer?
Sunny Beaches?
Sun Kissed Ski fields? (Free of mines, that is...)
A roaring trade in bananas or Gold ore?
nope.
A bountiful supply of ...um..
Sweet Fu<k All, as they say.

So why the hell NOT?

So why not try?

This might not eliminate the pipeline to the half dead Rugby supporter in the seaside town :oops: but it would have to severely constrict the supply chain, if say, 30-40% of available supply went up in smoke like a wallabies victory p-)

[martinexsquaddie]

we had one rugby fan die jumping off our seaside pier and trying to swim 200yds to shore in a gale :(
But you lost you lost rofl rofl rofl

[fred_engles]

First off, Caribou Kid, must you use all those stupid colours?

Seconldy, attacking the drug problem from the supply side has been a failure on every level, and there's no evidence it would work here (the US hasn't even obliterated marijuana production in northern california, much less cut off border smuggling).

Thirdly: Afghan farmers have little alternative to opium. Afghanistan is not at all very fertile place, not much else will grow there Cutting off production of opium could cause many families to literally starve. It's not like we're talking about land that could just as easily support wheat or tomatoes.

Fourthly: Afghanistan is not the only opium producing country. As long as the demand is there, falls in production would do little to hurt global supply. When the taliban banned opium production, worldwide heroine prices did not rise dramatically.

[hahaha]

Think of all the Law enforcement agencies that would get their budgets slashed if the drug war was won. No government in the world is prepared to make a serious 'win' in the drug war.

Example:
Yes, true, the Medillin cartel is no more, but that is because of the 'joint' co-operation between the Cali cartel and the Columbian government. The Cali cartel was seen as the less violent cartel (not bombing anything liek Pablo and his boys), and was actively involved in the destruction and eventual downfall of Medillin cartel. The creation of 'Los Pepes' is a perfect example of this. Search Bloc members and Cali cartel foot soldiers were working together, financial backing was also occuring.

Example:
High level drug dealer in Melbourne (VIC) Australia - Dennis Allen. Was one of the worst criminals in Melbourne during the '70s and '80s, but was on the record as being a police informer. While literally given a green light to deal in drugs (approx. $30,000 - $70,000 a week) he would point his finger at any of his closet rivals. Sydney (NSW) Australia, has also seen some criminals who were actively working with corrupt police and 'clean' police.

Too much money is involved, both money to be made and the money which is being spent on the so-called war.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Saw this cartoon just have to share it
http://www.danzigercartoons.com/img/2002/dancart1494.jpg

[Caribou Kid]

:hug: Dude, it's like you read my mind! You hit the nail right on the head with that cartoon.
Thanks for that, bacillus.

Oh well..
Back to the Lego...

[jizzmonkey]

[quote="hahaha"]
Example:
Yes, true, the Medillin cartel is no more, but that is because of the 'joint' co-operation between the Cali cartel and the Columbian government. The Cali cartel was seen as the less violent cartel (not bombing anything liek Pablo and his boys), and was actively involved in the destruction and eventual downfall of Medillin cartel. The creation of 'Los Pepes' is a perfect example of this. Search Bloc members and Cali cartel foot soldiers were working together, financial backing was also occuring.

Actually, the cali cartel didnt really have anything to do with "Los Pepes", that was all started by family members of Pablos victims with ties to the Medellin cartel itself, many of them were high ranking officials within the Colombian government, and later became what we know now as the paramillitary groups like the AUC and so on, the Cali cartel's success to this day is atributed to their keeping of a low profile. Alot of people have speculated on Cali's involvment, but later it was determined to be unfounded.

[California Joe]

Please, everyone knows it was Don Johnson and Phillip Michael Thomas that shut them down on Miami Vice. ;)

[budanski]

rofl

[Caribou Kid]

No, dude, you're thinking of Knight rider.

Or was it Magnum, P.I.?

Maybe Simon & Simon did it....

[Caribou Kid]

Actually, I'm pretty sure McGyver had a hand in it too, somewhere.

[Trigger]

What's with all the drug talk?...oh wait, I thought it said 'Puppy Stomping'.

[JiJoMacLE45]

Please, everyone knows it was Don Johnson and Phillip Michael Thomas that shut them down on Miami Vice.

Was this before or after Crockett and Tubbs made their singing debuts?

[Trigger]

going sockless is so cool...

[California Joe]

*putting on pastel T shirt, pushing up sleeves*

que background Jan Hammer music......

[JiJoMacLE45]

Anyone with a pet gator is a cool mofo, and carrying a sawed off in a shoulder rig, bad ass.

[Caribou Kid]

Holsters Bren Ten, and grabs keys to Ferarri testar..err..Honda civic off counter...

Thinks to self:"Now, do I go with the Ray Bans, or shall I stick with the Oakleys..."

[hahaha]

@****monkey - I thought the Cali cartel still had a part to play in Los Pepes, as alot of the funding that the group had couldn't have come all from the governement ? Could it ? I know that Escobar had some powerful enemies within Columbia's ruling elite, and most probably they were funding the group too. Thanks for the clarification.

[jizzmonkey]

@****monkey - I thought the Cali cartel still had a part to play in Los Pepes, as alot of the funding that the group had couldn't have come all from the governement ? Could it ? I know that Escobar had some powerful enemies within Columbia's ruling elite, and most probably they were funding the group too. Thanks for the clarification.

first of all its COLOMBIA, not a city in ohio Columbia, the days of the cartel's were over after Escobar, the remaining "cartel's" turned more official and clandestine, they werent the thugs you would see on the Sopranos they were buisness men wearing suits with legit companies they used for laundering, not as easy to trace like the old cartel. Now it shifted, the "kingpins" used the guerilla groups like the FARC, ELN AUC and about a dozen more smaller groups to do the dirty work for them, and in return these groups taxed the cartels.The groups since then got greedy, and pretty much took over the crops and now fund their own armies and agendas, not so much the middle-men anymore. Los Pepes wasnt a large organized group like you think they were, it was bunch of disgruntled employees of the former Medellin cartel afraid of Escobar, but knowing how vulnerable he was at the time, gave information to government groups that eventually ended in Escobars demise, and in the process vented some anger and avenged thmselves by torturing some of escobars collegues. The only small part the cali cartel might have played was with information. The main figure for the cali cartel at the time was a woman, I cant remeber her name, but she wheeled and dealed some agreements with the Colombian government for the info she gave them.

[hahaha]

thanks for the geography lesson.... hehe