Japanese schoolbooks

[joka]

I just read that there were some protests/riots in China becouse of the new history book the Japanese goverment accepted. Which alledgedly "sugar coates" their actions in WW2, which obviously the Chinese dosen't like.

Anyone know more about this? Or even better have a sample of this historybook.

Thx.

[Russ.Dill]

Just that the Koreans are pissed too, they've picked the Dokto islands as their lead topic on this. I think China has picked some massacre. Both lead topics are really a "front" for a huge laundry list of "complaints" against Japan.

Bath Korea and China have a lot of hate for Japan, personally, I feel with China, it is a lot of pot calling the Kettle black.

[askDNA]

Some Chinese and Koreans are always going to complain about Japan no matter what the hell they do. It's just like how some blacks demand reparations no matter if we apologize or not. I haven't read the textbooks and I doubt ANYONE on this forum has, so I'd stop worrying about it, cause sooner or later, they're going to be complaining again when Koizumi pays his tributes to the dead.

[Midav]

My opinion on this is that people should never ever forget what happened.

What happened is in the past and if people today, especially those born well after WW II are angry, I think they are ignorant.

It's like complaining to modern Germans for what happened during the second world war.

It happened. It's a shame. However, the newer generation(s) can't help what went on. Learn from it, but don't delve on it for the rest of your life.

Then again, the Japenese should speak about what they did in their books and if people become upset that they don't is one thing. To start demonstarting and acting like morons is another.

[Jin]

By whitewashing the facts on the textbooks, they are glorifying the past. The future generations won't learn from the past because they won't know about the past. And if you don't learn from your past mistakes...it could happen again.

Its funny how some of you think China should open up more and be more democratic... and allow its citizens to be more free... Now that Chinese people have opened up protesting its views... some of you start nagging about this and that... I thought Freedom of Speech is an important part of democracy...no? :roll:

[ViktorNavorski]

Every four years, public and private schools in Japan select one of the seven or eight history textbooks authorized by the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology (Monbukagakusho). The screening process usually last about a full year. The book being protested about is The New History Textbook. Under the system the local school authorities determine which of the new textbooks will be use in their district classrooms. Last time I check the reporting, the last selection round was last year, I think, about half a percent or less chose The New History Textbook. These schools are mostly for children with disabilities and due to their low fundings, they went for the cheaper books, controversy or not. All municipal government run or state run junior high school went with the other choices. Since around the mid-90's, browsing through the other choices for history textbooks, you can find information on the Nanking Massacre, forced suicide in Okinawa, comfort women, Unit 731, etc.

This is all possible of course, thanks to the prominent Japanese historian Ienaga Saburo and his three lawsuits (1965, 1982, 1986) against the Ministry of Education to present the facts about World War II in it history textbooks. If you happen to be in Japan, I recommend going to the bookstore Sanseido or Kinokuniya. All the textbooks are available for you to look at. Until you actually see the real things, please do refrain your judgement.

[Omz222]

While the points has been made by all sides, to change it into another perspective, what would the Americans feel if the Japanese manipulated the facts about the Bataan Death March in their textbook, and would only say that it is more of a "normal gathering of captured American and Filipino soldiers" instead of admitting that it's a horrible atrocity against POWs?

[hell]

This is just a story I experienced, so it shouldn't be taken as a wide spread account of the Japanese people as a whole.

In high school, we had two exchange students from Japan. One day in class, someone brought up Pearl Harbor. These two guys had little to no idea what the big issue was. Really. These were two well-educated young men, and they knew of the event, but not the historical ramifications. They seemed to relay that it was just another battle for their country in WWII. Since I was the only person in class that knew ANYTHING about WWII, I was trying to ask as many questions as possible. From what I gathered, many of the Japanese soldiers and officers that Americans consider war-criminals are still honored in Japan, due to the fact they followed orders and fought for their country. This pretty much outraged me from the start, but once you compare their society with American society, you kind of understand. From what I've read, Japan's society is, well, shame-based. There are several things many Americans do on a semi-daily basis that Japanese citizens consider shameful, and you don't just do this stuff in Japan and shrug it off. It's almost a mark, and for all the aspects of it I've seen, it's pretty much this scarlet letter your ass ends up carrying most of your life. Hell, you can't see a psychologist in Japan without commiting a shameful act. Anyway, all other accounts I've seen, Japan's views and teachings of WWII are much different than that of other countries. Whether or not they recognize war-criminals like we do, I dont know, but many things aren't treated the same.

I mean, jewish citizens have sued German companies for being "employed" in forced labor during the war, but so far, no American veteran has won a case against Mitsubishi or any other Japanese company for all of the forced-labor during WWII, which usually meant being worked to death.

Again, just relating my past experience and opinions, I haven't lived in Japan one day of my life, so my views could be completely skewed.

[Kilgor]

By whitewashing the facts on the textbooks, they are glorifying the past. The future generations won't learn from the past because they won't know about the past. And if you don't learn from your past mistakes...it could happen again.

Its funny how some of you think China should open up more and be more democratic... and allow its citizens to be more free... Now that Chinese people have opened up protesting its views... some of you start nagging about this and that... I thought Freedom of Speech is an important part of democracy...no? :roll:

Do chinese textbooks talk about Mao's great famine, which by estimates killed 30 million people ?

I am in no way supporting what japan did in WW2 , because it was absolutely digusting, but the people of china should realise that the communist system has treated them far far worse.

[hell]

While the points has been made by all sides, to change it into another perspective, what would the Americans feel if the Japanese manipulated the facts about the Bataan Death March in their textbook, and would only say that it is more of a "normal gathering of captured American and Filipino soldiers" instead of admitting that it's a horrible atrocity against POWs?


Well, I remember very little to nothing being said of the Japanese-american internment project in WWII in the US. Most accounts I remember from public-school books related it as another event, not an example of "biggoted paranoia that resulted in the forced migration of anyone even thought to be Japanese." Don't get my loyalties wrong here, I know we weren't lining them up and shooting them, but after the war was over and they were released, many went back to their homes to find they had been sold, or whatever you wish to call it, and they literally just had the clothes they were wearing and their suitcases they were carrying. Most of the people released from the Japanese-American internment camps literally had to start life over; no house, no job, no car, nothing. Again, no offense, but do you remember your history teacher in high school talking about it like this? Mine certainly didn't. It was just a small paragraph in the book we glossed over. Gotta love public schools.

[hell]

I am in no way supporting what japan did in WW2 , because it was absolutely digusting, but the people of china should realise that the communist system has treated them far far worse.


There's definately truth there; let's not forget one of communism's war-time trademarks: the human-wave attack. Let's see which people that maneuver benefits....

[Russ.Dill]

Don't get my loyalties wrong here, I know we weren't lining them up and shooting them, but after the war was over and they were released, many went back to their homes to find they had been sold, or whatever you wish to call it, and they literally just had the clothes they were wearing and their suitcases they were carrying. Most of the people released from the Japanese-American internment camps literally had to start life over; no house, no job, no car, nothing. Again, no offense, but do you remember your history teacher in high school talking about it like this? Mine certainly didn't. It was just a small paragraph in the book we glossed over. Gotta love public schools.

Definately something that was discussed in my class, there was even a film, course, being in arizona, I suppose we are closer too the phenomenom. Course, we even had POW's in Tempe.

[Russ.Dill]

Some Chinese and Koreans are always going to complain about Japan no matter what the hell they do. It's just like how some blacks demand reparations no matter if we apologize or not. I haven't read the textbooks and I doubt ANYONE on this forum has, so I'd stop worrying about it, cause sooner or later, they're going to be complaining again when Koizumi pays his tributes to the dead.

There are a few differences....

The slaves demanding reperations are still alive.

Also, if the US tried to eliminate slavery from all their textbooks, don't you suppose the descendents of slaves might have something to say? Or would they just be finding something to "always complain about".

[ocean]

If Japan text book says Pearl Harbour attack was simply a military drill carried out in mistake, and was unfair US ever "retaliated" in Midway ... Or, if Germany textbook says Jewish Holocoust was a lie made up by Jews like what the Japs tell of Nanking Massacre. I'm sure everyone here will jump up.

Even Mao's mistake was acknowledged by Chinese political systems, the guy made huge mistakes apart of course, from the glories he brought to China.

Back to the point, if a country died millions of people on its own land and aggresor just wished to wash its hands off, one got to stand up and let the truth heard.

Let alone mentioning, among major WWII countries involved with Japan that were compensated by Japan for every war pennys, only Koreans and Chinese got no compensation from Japan at all. The current investment and trade among those nation, is mutually beneficial at best to say, China served a huge market to Japanese goods to help elevate its economy from the dread 90s.

[cut]

By whitewashing the facts on the textbooks, they are glorifying the past. The future generations won't learn from the past because they won't know about the past. And if you don't learn from your past mistakes...it could happen again.

Its funny how some of you think China should open up more and be more democratic... and allow its citizens to be more free... Now that Chinese people have opened up protesting its views... some of you start nagging about this and that... I thought Freedom of Speech is an important part of democracy...no? :roll:

funny how China only allows it when the people are complaining a foreign governement and not their own.

[Opening Batsman]

So what are you saying? If they don't learn how things really were, the next time people start shouting "Banzai", they won't know where it is heading. Learn from your mistakes, otherwise they will be repeated.

[jd123]

what the hell Japanese textbook has anything to do with Mao's screwups?
The fact is most of people in China know culture revolution was a big screwup, and most of people in China don't really into the government. The fact is most of Japanese believe the bull**** the government tells them. You got the difference here? most of the educated Chinese don't believe the **** goverment tells them, most of the educated Japanese believe the **** governemnt tells them. And yes, the famine years during Mao's control was taught, not directly saying it was his fault, but it was taught millions of people suffered.

[joka]

If I'm not totally mistaken, there are a few Japanese posters on these boards. Would be intresting to hear what they have to say about this.

[askDNA]

Some Chinese and Koreans are always going to complain about Japan no matter what the hell they do. It's just like how some blacks demand reparations no matter if we apologize or not. I haven't read the textbooks and I doubt ANYONE on this forum has, so I'd stop worrying about it, cause sooner or later, they're going to be complaining again when Koizumi pays his tributes to the dead.

There are a few differences....

The slaves demanding reperations are still alive.

Also, if the US tried to eliminate slavery from all their textbooks, don't you suppose the descendents of slaves might have something to say? Or would they just be finding something to "always complain about".

Slaves from the US that are still alive? Are you joking? Why is everyone going ape****, you haven't even read the books. Until I actually read it I'm not going to condemn Japan.

[username]

I don't know anything specifically about this, but from what I have read most countries sugarcoat the dark parts of the nations history or just glaze over it..

[Russ.Dill]

Some Chinese and Koreans are always going to complain about Japan no matter what the hell they do. It's just like how some blacks demand reparations no matter if we apologize or not. I haven't read the textbooks and I doubt ANYONE on this forum has, so I'd stop worrying about it, cause sooner or later, they're going to be complaining again when Koizumi pays his tributes to the dead.

There are a few differences....

The slaves demanding reperations are still alive.

Also, if the US tried to eliminate slavery from all their textbooks, don't you suppose the descendents of slaves might have something to say? Or would they just be finding something to "always complain about".

Slaves from the US that are still alive? Are you joking? Why is everyone going ape****, you haven't even read the books. Until I actually read it I'm not going to condemn Japan.

I'm sorry, I thought you had some background on this issue before typing a response, I guess I was wrong. Next time, read up on a topic, then discuss it. If you are too lazy to do so, I'll give you a freebee, Chinese, Korean, and American POWs/citizens are demanding payment for slave labor they performed under the Japanese.

[askDNA]

Some Chinese and Koreans are always going to complain about Japan no matter what the hell they do. It's just like how some blacks demand reparations no matter if we apologize or not. I haven't read the textbooks and I doubt ANYONE on this forum has, so I'd stop worrying about it, cause sooner or later, they're going to be complaining again when Koizumi pays his tributes to the dead.

There are a few differences....

The slaves demanding reperations are still alive.

Also, if the US tried to eliminate slavery from all their textbooks, don't you suppose the descendents of slaves might have something to say? Or would they just be finding something to "always complain about".

Slaves from the US that are still alive? Are you joking? Why is everyone going ape****, you haven't even read the books. Until I actually read it I'm not going to condemn Japan.

I'm sorry, I thought you had some background on this issue before typing a response, I guess I was wrong. Next time, read up on a topic, then discuss it. If you are too lazy to do so, I'll give you a freebee, Chinese, Korean, and American POWs/citizens are demanding payment for slave labor they performed under the Japanese.

I was talking about African-Americans. And when I brought them up it was before anyone wrote you wrote about POWs. :slap:

[Russ.Dill]

Some Chinese and Koreans are always going to complain about Japan no matter what the hell they do. It's just like how some blacks demand reparations no matter if we apologize or not. I haven't read the textbooks and I doubt ANYONE on this forum has, so I'd stop worrying about it, cause sooner or later, they're going to be complaining again when Koizumi pays his tributes to the dead.

There are a few differences....

The slaves demanding reperations are still alive.

Also, if the US tried to eliminate slavery from all their textbooks, don't you suppose the descendents of slaves might have something to say? Or would they just be finding something to "always complain about".

Slaves from the US that are still alive? Are you joking? Why is everyone going ape****, you haven't even read the books. Until I actually read it I'm not going to condemn Japan.

I'm sorry, I thought you had some background on this issue before typing a response, I guess I was wrong. Next time, read up on a topic, then discuss it. If you are too lazy to do so, I'll give you a freebee, Chinese, Korean, and American POWs/citizens are demanding payment for slave labor they performed under the Japanese.

I was talking about African-Americans. And when I brought them up it was before anyone wrote you wrote about POWs. :slap:

You were comparing the Chinese and Koreans complaining about the Japanese no matter what and then compared it to african americans demanding reperations for slavery. I pointed out the differences. I'm sorry if you did not know that the Japanese used POWs and civilians as slaves and even prostitutes, now you know.

[Hawaii_Light]

my god this is like the fifth topic we had on this.

i've been yelling banzi since i got here, expessially for soccer, along with katu? (cut off) banzi is the same as hip hip horay.

anyways i don't feel like posting my anaylses of the japanese people anymore so i'll give you a little opionon that ive been forming.

homogenous nations (ie:japan, koreas, china) will eventually cause the end of the world (mind you im not saying that race has anything to do with it) its just the extreme irrational nationlism that is going to start some stupid war.

everybody leaves some of their countries history out of the education systeam, but pearl harbour is discussed in japanese schools, but because of cultural reasons their not going to go to america 50 years after the bloody war in which they had no part in and start apologizing and crap.


people dont see how unreasonable this is through the eyes of a japanese person blah .............blah............blah

[joka]

I never claimed that they should go around apologizing to people. I just started this thread to find out how true if at all this was.

But don't you find it some what alarming if the Japanese goverment is categorically denying warcrimes and teaching that to children? I'm not saying this is so, infact it probably isn't, I just wanted to find out the extent of what's going on.

[vryhpyammoadded]

I hate marketing weenies who attempt to put a polish on sh*t. Just accept the fact some jerks made bad things happen, learn not to do it again and move on the wiser.

[gaijinsamurai]

"Ocean" claims China and Korea have received "no compensation at all" from Japan. Actually, Japan has paid millions of dollars in compensation to China, South Korea, and North Korea. They have also given huge sums in economic, environmental, development, and other forms of assistance throughout Asia and other poor countries.
As for the textbook, the frenzy being stirred up by China and South Korea is due to one textbook out of many which were approved by the Japanese national government, as an optional history book for schools. Most textbooks in use in Japan are very forthright in teaching children about Japan's darker moments. True, they don't force it down kids' throats, but then again, I wasn't force-fed stories about Wounded Knee, lynchings in the South, or the CIA's involvement in Chile, Iran, or Guatemala, either!
This "textbook controversy" is just the latest excuse for China and South Korea to whip up frenzied protests against Japan. Six month from now, it will probably be something else.......

[toki]

i just try to imagine german schoolbooks would just leave some "bad parts" of history out. This would result in an outcry. Not possible. The holocaust is a part of at least 3-4 school subjects. History/German/politics/religious education. Any gloryfication would be a crime and viewed as "Volksverhetzung". (hate crime/spreading for example the "holocaust lie") and never make it into history-books.

Though it should not be compared japanese did things the nazis did also.
Can't believe the japanese treat this subject like it. I think it's the nature of an homogenic-island-nation that makes it easy develop this kind of view of the past. (Only a TRY to understand it!!) :(

[askDNA]

Some Chinese and Koreans are always going to complain about Japan no matter what the hell they do. It's just like how some blacks demand reparations no matter if we apologize or not. I haven't read the textbooks and I doubt ANYONE on this forum has, so I'd stop worrying about it, cause sooner or later, they're going to be complaining again when Koizumi pays his tributes to the dead.

There are a few differences....

The slaves demanding reperations are still alive.

Also, if the US tried to eliminate slavery from all their textbooks, don't you suppose the descendents of slaves might have something to say? Or would they just be finding something to "always complain about".

Slaves from the US that are still alive? Are you joking? Why is everyone going ape****, you haven't even read the books. Until I actually read it I'm not going to condemn Japan.

I'm sorry, I thought you had some background on this issue before typing a response, I guess I was wrong. Next time, read up on a topic, then discuss it. If you are too lazy to do so, I'll give you a freebee, Chinese, Korean, and American POWs/citizens are demanding payment for slave labor they performed under the Japanese.

I was talking about African-Americans. And when I brought them up it was before anyone wrote you wrote about POWs. :slap:

You were comparing the Chinese and Koreans complaining about the Japanese no matter what and then compared it to african americans demanding reperations for slavery. I pointed out the differences. I'm sorry if you did not know that the Japanese used POWs and civilians as slaves and even prostitutes, now you know.

Yes, I did know what the Japanese did. And I never said that the Chinese/Koreans I was talking about were hating Japan just because of WW2 and what the Japanese did to some of them; the hate has been going on longer than that. Stop being so uppity.

[ocean]

"Ocean" claims China and Korea have received "no compensation at all" from Japan. Actually, Japan has paid millions of dollars in compensation to China, South Korea, and North Korea. They have also given huge sums in economic, environmental, development, and other forms of assistance throughout Asia and other poor countries.
As for the textbook, the frenzy being stirred up by China and South Korea is due to one textbook out of many which were approved by the Japanese national government, as an optional history book for schools. Most textbooks in use in Japan are very forthright in teaching children about Japan's darker moments. True, they don't force it down kids' throats, but then again, I wasn't force-fed stories about Wounded Knee, lynchings in the South, or the CIA's involvement in Chile, Iran, or Guatemala, either!
This "textbook controversy" is just the latest excuse for China and South Korea to whip up frenzied protests against Japan. Six month from now, it will probably be something else.......

Maybe both Chinese and Koreans were raised in the same school of Confucious thoughts and they really took heart in believing by not having their goverment asking for huge war compensations at the end of WWII (which is also difficult economic times for Japan), Japan truly has remorse and relations among Japan, Korea and China will develop in genuine mutual trust. By converting textbooks, which is an idoitic attempt at manipulating history, such trust is gone. Moreover, as far as compenstation goes, there were only small fraction of civil suing cases succeeded at Japan court, none for the governmental paying.

Investment/trade, as mentioned they are MUTUAL. Chinese and Koreans served huge export market to Japanese companies, which made big fortunes out of the consumptions (for one, I like Japanese product, cars and cameras, but I sure paid $ for them).

[Jin]

"Ocean" claims China and Korea have received "no compensation at all" from Japan. Actually, Japan has paid millions of dollars in compensation to China, South Korea, and North Korea. They have also given huge sums in economic, environmental, development, and other forms of assistance throughout Asia and other poor countries.
As for the textbook, the frenzy being stirred up by China and South Korea is due to one textbook out of many which were approved by the Japanese national government, as an optional history book for schools. Most textbooks in use in Japan are very forthright in teaching children about Japan's darker moments. True, they don't force it down kids' throats, but then again, I wasn't force-fed stories about Wounded Knee, lynchings in the South, or the CIA's involvement in Chile, Iran, or Guatemala, either!
This "textbook controversy" is just the latest excuse for China and South Korea to whip up frenzied protests against Japan. Six month from now, it will probably be something else.......

Are you refering to the ODA loans?