View Full Version : Aljazeera working with iraqi insurgents
jizzmonkey
11-26-2003, 02:28 PM
Arab TV Worked With Insurgents
Associated Press
November 26, 2003
WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his top military adviser said Tuesday they have evidence the Arab television news organizations Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya cooperated with Iraqi insurgents to witness and videotape attacks on American troops.
Rumsfeld said the effort fit a pattern of psychological warfare used by remnants of the Baathist government, who want to create the impression that no amount of U.S. firepower can end the insurgency.
"They've called Al-Jazeera to come and watch them do it (attack American troops), and Al-Arabiya," he told a Pentagon news conference. "`Come and see us, watch us; here is what we're going to do.'"
Pressed for details, Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, both indicated that U.S. forces in Iraq had collected more than just circumstantial evidence that one or both of the Arab news organizations might have cooperated with the attackers.
"Yes, I've seen scraps of information over a sustained period of time," Rumsfeld said. "I'm not in a position to make a final judgment on it," but it needs to be examined in an "orderly way," he added.
Neither Rumsfeld nor Myers provided details of any evidence.
"I opined accurately that from time to time each of those stations have found themselves in very close proximity to things that were happening against coalition forces - before the event happened and during the event," Rumsfeld said.
On a related subject, Rumsfeld cited a long list of statistics on the results of recent U.S. efforts to defeat the insurgency - including a rare reference to numbers of opposition fighters killed.
He said that last week alone, U.S.-led forces conducted nearly 12,000 patrols and more than 230 raids.
"They captured some 1,200 enemy forces and killed 40 to 50 enemy fighters and wounded some 25 to 30," Rumsfeld said. "That's a one-week snapshot, but it provides a sense of the determined offensive pressure which the coalition is applying against the enemy."
The Pentagon has generally refused to provide numbers of opposition forces killed.
The question about Al-Arabiya and Al-Jazeera arose when Rumsfeld was asked about a videotape that surfaced in Baghdad showing a man firing a surface-to-air missile at a DHL cargo plane. The tape appeared to record an insurgent operation Saturday in which a missile struck the wing of the cargo plane, forcing the aircraft to make an emergency landing at Baghdad's airport. It was the first time insurgents struck a civilian plane in Iraq.
Rumsfeld said he had been told of the videotape but did not know enough about it to comment, beyond saying, "It doesn't take a genius to fire off a shoulder-fired missile at an airplane."
On Monday, the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council in Baghdad raided the offices of Al-Arabiya television, banned its broadcasts from Iraq and threatened to imprison its journalists. Media groups said the action called into question the future of a free press in the country.
Al-Arabiya said it would not fight the ban and would report on Iraq from its headquarters in Dubai.
Asked about the ban, Rumsfeld said he had no opinion because he had not seen the details.
Al-Arabiya has clashed with authorities before for its coverage of Iraq. In July, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz said Al-Arabiya and Al-Jazeera incited violence against American forces with slanted reports.
In September, the Governing Council temporarily banned both news organizations from entering government buildings and news conferences, accusing them of being aware of attacks on American troops before they occurred.
And last week, Rumsfeld called the two stations "violently anti-coalition" as he announced the planned launch of a U.S.-run satellite channel to compete with the popular news stations.
Sound Off...What do you think? Join the discussion
jizzmonkey
11-26-2003, 02:31 PM
Go figure.........., well why dont we follow the reporters around and gather intel?......or even better, Detain them all, torture and beat them until they talk???!! :fork:
fantassin
11-26-2003, 02:31 PM
Is it the same team that had evidences of WMDs in Iraq ?
budanski
11-26-2003, 02:40 PM
Just as coincidental as the two french magazines that 'just so happen' to be with Iraqi insurgents when they shot down the DHL jet. (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7991424%255E1702,00.html)
Is it the same team that had evidences of WMDs in Iraq ?
Iraqi WMD reports were taken from UN inspectors. I'm not aware of any UN inspectors currently in Iraq right now.
jizzmonkey
11-26-2003, 02:41 PM
Damit... why does this always have to end up being about the WMD's, if I wanted to start a topc about that I would have entitled it "WMD's myth and mystery", but its not about that, its the arab media.....sooo.......what the hell does that have to do with WMD's?....get over the WMD's.
budanski
11-26-2003, 02:48 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20031126/capt.sge.ity90.261103152944.photo00.default-384x288.jpg
French Television Crew Participates in a Terrorist Attack in Iraq
Yahoo (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/031126/photos_wl_me_afp/031126152948_z2bel1e2_photo0&e=1&ncid=)
TV footage shows masked militants firing a missile at a DHL cargo jet. Paris Match is to publish pictures of Iraqi rebels launching a missile attack on a DHL cargo plane flying over the Iraqi capital.(AFP/Le Nouvel Observateur)
fantassin
11-26-2003, 02:52 PM
That's absolutely hilarious ! :lol: a classic of paranoļa ! :lol:
to take a picture is "to participate" ! is watching the picture afterwards "supporting" ? Thank you for making my day with such a comment, you are priceless ! :lol:
Ratamacue
11-26-2003, 02:54 PM
Taking a picture without notifying people in danger is participating. Screw neutrality, these guys are targeting civilians now.
jizzmonkey
11-26-2003, 02:56 PM
I dont give two ****s about the media itself in this case, let them keep doing what they are doing, All I'm saying is there might be a target for intel here, since we havent really been doing so well in that department anyways.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20031126/capt.sge.ity90.261103152944.photo00.default-384x288.jpg
French Television Crew Participates in a Terrorist Attack in Iraq
Yahoo (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/031126/photos_wl_me_afp/031126152948_z2bel1e2_photo0&e=1&ncid=)
TV footage shows masked militants firing a missile at a DHL cargo jet. Paris Match is to publish pictures of Iraqi rebels launching a missile attack on a DHL cargo plane flying over the Iraqi capital.(AFP/Le Nouvel Observateur)
where does it say that a telivision crew was there??
of course the guy that shot the missile was Chirac
fantassin
11-26-2003, 02:59 PM
At least the military knows exactly what weapon has been used now.
BTW, in Europe, journalist don't go around with radio links to the armed forces...that's a purely US thing, the "embedment"...they explain in Paris Match how they were told they were going to be shown an arms dump by the Fedayns and were surprised when they saw the SAM about to be fired.
What should have they done? grab them by the throat? maybe the girl journalist should have used her heels to poke the eyes of the SAM firer out?
Again I say they are trying to destory both arab networks because they are showing what is going on in Iraq.
First they detain one of their reporters who was well known in Afghanistan war and he was the only reporter there. He was accused of being an Al Qaeda member well what do you know he is innocent. Before that they try to bomb their offices so that they will run away.
Can't rumsfeld handle the oposing media?
ibstolidude
11-26-2003, 04:09 PM
Again I say they are trying to destory both arab networks because they are showing what is going on in Iraq.
- funny I watch Al Jazeera...I have not sen them report on the facilitation of hospitals or the schools that the coalition have funded...(or any of the 100's of other CIMIC/CMO projects that I know have taken place)
no but todays headlines/taglines include:
"US and British occupation of Iraq is regarded as the re-emergence of the old colonialist practices of the western empires"
"Some observers say Iraq may become another Vietnam for the US occupation forces"
I am about as apt to believe their horse**** as I am Foxnews.
ok...errm...i'm losing it here... so can ANYONE here completely define the difference between Al-Jazeera going out and filming the insurgents actions and the fox news or cnn or whatso ever crews being embedded and filming the US actions? cus it's sounding kinda double-standardish :|
2Sheds_Jackson
11-26-2003, 04:44 PM
ok...errm...i'm losing it here... so can ANYONE here completely define the difference between Al-Jazeera going out and filming the insurgents actions and the fox news or cnn or whatso ever crews being embedded and filming the US actions? cus it's sounding kinda double-standardish :|
Come on now, you don't see the difference between targeting terrorists and being one? Personally, I don't subscribe to moral equivalency, so this "one man's terrorist is another man's blah blah.." is absolute rubbish. Seems like some people are unable to distinguish and differentiate between moral and immoral behavior. Targeting innocent unsuspecting people on a commercial jet is not the same as targeting people shooting at you. If the members of the "press" (a word I try not to use to refer to the slow-witted, debased regurgitant known as al-jazeera) had foreknowledge of such an attack, they are not covering a news event, they are acting with depraved indifference to human life, which is a crime.
jizzmonkey
11-26-2003, 04:50 PM
here, here 2Sheds_Jackson, I second that motion!
jdbjdb
11-26-2003, 04:51 PM
Can't rumsfeld handle the oposing media?
Not when they are aiding terrorist.
errm...what aide have al-jazeera given?? the only thing they did was film their actions, and that's it! if you say they're helping terrorists because they arent helping the US you're talking pretty stinky crap :roll:
budanski
11-26-2003, 05:05 PM
How were they aiding terrorists? Being a vessels for terrorists in inciting terror among the population is surely to get you kicked out of Iraq.
2Sheds_Jackson
11-26-2003, 05:07 PM
errm...what aide have al-jazeera given?? the only thing they did was film their actions, and that's it! if you say they're helping terrorists because they arent helping the US you're talking pretty stinky crap :roll:
If somebody told me, "hey pal, watch me shoot down this passenger jet with this MANPAD", I'd call the cops. I wouldn't film it, and then make big $$ off selling it to other organizations. They are padding thier wallets at the expense of our fellow humans.
They may not directy aid the Ts (or who knows, maybe they do) but they sure as hell deserve to be put in jail for failing to act to prevent the needless loss of innocent life.
you could say pretty much the same about journalists not preventing any possible civilians deaths caused by journalists that were imbedded with the US...
u know what the word neutral means?!! the journalists there are just too report, they can't intervene! remember they aint supposed to be your propaganda puppies! If they would start to intervene or act themselves, they'd be even a higher priority target for the insurgents than US soldiers! being neutral is the thing that keeps them alive and continues to give them the ability to actually report and give us anything that's at least close to a neutral view of how things are over there, instead of just state-controlled information...
martinexsquaddie
11-26-2003, 05:16 PM
Journalists see themselves as reporters so neutral same as aid workers they can't do there job if there seen to be sucking up to the people in power thats just the way it is.
those britsh journalist who got killed by US forces thought they could cross back and forwards across a battlfield. Its a miricle more of them don't get killed.
Getting angry at them just encourages them
2Sheds_Jackson
11-26-2003, 05:48 PM
you could say pretty much the same about journalists not preventing any possible civilians deaths caused by journalists that were imbedded with the US...
u know what the word neutral means?!! the journalists there are just too report, they can't intervene! remember they aint supposed to be your propaganda puppies! If they would start to intervene or act themselves, they'd be even a higher priority target for the insurgents than US soldiers! being neutral is the thing that keeps them alive and continues to give them the ability to actually report and give us anything that's at least close to a neutral view of how things are over there, instead of just state-controlled information...
Being "neutral" is a fallacy. They are still subject to civil and criminal law. The law makes no exemption for them- they exempt themselves in order to make $$. I also find it odd that that these morons clearly side with forces who would instantly put them to death, should they wish to exercise similar journalistic freedoms under their rule.
You can't believe that shooting down civilian airliners is the same as shooting down the military jet of an enemy you've declared war against? :| I would suggest that one is a depraved crime, the other is warfare. Similarly, shooting a baby would be equivalent to shooting a sniper who's trying to kill you. I can clearly tell the difference there, even if it is almost the weekend and I've been drinkin'.
budanski
11-26-2003, 05:57 PM
There was a great quote from the Israeli mother of a homicide bomber's victim. She said "We can forgive you for killing our children, we cannot forgive you for making us kill yours".
Argyll
11-26-2003, 06:27 PM
From what I heard is that the tape was "handed" in to the French press office.
All I can see is pure paranoia here with certain members of this site.
Blame the media,blame the french,blame everyone but themselves,you know people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Forget this war thing for a minute,but in every disaster there has been in the world,the media are there to report it,do you see them not report the "exclusive",or do you see them try to help with 1st aid etc,offering their vehicles as emergency vehicles etc?
There is not one single journalist here in this forum,who can put forward his views,there is not one single journo,here who can tell you about filming the scenes of death,the smell,the images of pain,the burden they carry,the nightmares they suffer from what they witnessed,to you they are just scum.
To me they are fathers and sons,brothers and uncles,and in some cases mothers and daughters sisters and aunts,irrespective of the **** they're embroilled in,if you all think you can do it better then do so!!
I watched a discovery channel about "journalists at war" which offered a rare insight to the human side of these reports,one of how a cameraman(US)filmwd a Bosnian chils,shot by a sniper 2 mins after they were talking to her,and the last thing the dying girl saw was the image of herself in the cameramans lense,he felt so guilty about that,that he wanted to die,he removed the plates from his vest and ran sniper alley all day,till he could run no more,then suffered a nervous breakdown!
Another ITN reporter,who "rescued"a 4 month old bay in Rawanda,took her to a hospital,just for the doctors there to od her on morphine,as it was easier!,the guys was almost physically sick when describing that!
Freedom of the press is a thing we hear coming from the White House a lot,well let them do their jobs,and if you don't like it,DON'T WATCH IT!!!,or don't read it
rokus2595
11-26-2003, 06:28 PM
WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his top military adviser said Tuesday they have evidence the Arab television news organizations Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya cooperated with Iraqi insurgents to witness and videotape attacks on American troops.
big whatever...this is the same person who took the US to war in Iraq because of nonexisting WMD....
couldn't have said it better Argyll
*waits for jdbjibbedyasssmaster's unique no-brainer response*
2Sheds_Jackson
11-26-2003, 08:52 PM
From what I heard is that the tape was "handed" in to the French press office.
All I can see is pure paranoia here with certain members of this site.
Blame the media,blame the french,blame everyone but themselves,you know people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Forget this war thing for a minute,but in every disaster there has been in the world,the media are there to report it,do you see them not report the "exclusive",or do you see them try to help with 1st aid etc,offering their vehicles as emergency vehicles etc?
There is not one single journalist here in this forum,who can put forward his views,there is not one single journo,here who can tell you about filming the scenes of death,the smell,the images of pain,the burden they carry,the nightmares they suffer from what they witnessed,to you they are just scum.
To me they are fathers and sons,brothers and uncles,and in some cases mothers and daughters sisters and aunts,irrespective of the **** they're embroilled in,if you all think you can do it better then do so!!
I watched a discovery channel about "journalists at war" which offered a rare insight to the human side of these reports,one of how a cameraman(US)filmwd a Bosnian chils,shot by a sniper 2 mins after they were talking to her,and the last thing the dying girl saw was the image of herself in the cameramans lense,he felt so guilty about that,that he wanted to die,he removed the plates from his vest and ran sniper alley all day,till he could run no more,then suffered a nervous breakdown!
Another ITN reporter,who "rescued"a 4 month old bay in Rawanda,took her to a hospital,just for the doctors there to od her on morphine,as it was easier!,the guys was almost physically sick when describing that!
Freedom of the press is a thing we hear coming from the White House a lot,well let them do their jobs,and if you don't like it,DON'T WATCH IT!!!,or don't read it
Listen, these war journalists (of whom I don't include al-jazeera) would not even do any other job. Nobody is hoding a gun to their head to force them to do that work. The get off on the money, travel, attention, status, the adrenaline rush - and then we're asked to feel sorry for them? I think not. Hey - the ugly crap comes with the territory & yes it sucks - but they know where the door is if they wanna go home. Sort of the same situation as cops/rescue etc. For every downside, there's a much bigger upside for them. Why else would they do it?
And I don't lump all journalists together - some are clearly more competent than others. Just like any way to make a living - some of 'em are good, others suck. I don't look at all reporters as scum...but some of them are.
Are you saying journalists don't incorporate their own views in the stories they cover? I don't know which reports you're watching, but I find it very hard to find straight reporting vs. editorializing. Watch network TV on an election night & tell me you have no idea who the anchors are rooting for :D
As for where the tape came from...I don't know either. I'd heard it both ways - maybe from an al-jazeera camera, maybe it was handed to them. And I agree about turning off news reports that you don't like. But hey - if we all did that, the Internet would be outta business!!
jizzmonkey
11-26-2003, 11:11 PM
WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his top military adviser said Tuesday they have evidence the Arab television news organizations Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya cooperated with Iraqi insurgents to witness and videotape attacks on American troops.
big whatever...this is the same person who took the US to war in Iraq because of nonexisting WMD....
hey...Jackass, if you read the article, it wasnt me that said that it was the associated press. I brought it up as a topic for debate, so quote the right people.
rokus2595
11-26-2003, 11:52 PM
WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his top military adviser said Tuesday they have evidence the Arab television news organizations Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya cooperated with Iraqi insurgents to witness and videotape attacks on American troops.
big whatever...this is the same person who took the US to war in Iraq because of nonexisting WMD....
hey...Jackass, if you read the article, it wasnt me that said that it was the associated press. I brought it up as a topic for debate, so quote the right people.
No it wasn't you moron.....rofl ..I was refering to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld....
phony doctors. hello!
11-27-2003, 02:32 AM
Sure, Al-Jezeera promotes a biast point of view by selectively airing certain stories and choosing not to air others, such as the positive effects of reconstruction, but whose going to tell me that FOX doesn't do the same thing? Yes the media are supposed to be objective but how can they be, American reporters are going to sympathise with American troops, and Al Jazeera sympathised with the Iraqis during the war, and with the insurgents now. American reporters tape dead Iraqis, Al-Jezeera tapes dead Americans. Those people in the arab world who oppose the American prescence in Iraq don't want to see interviews of 19 year old American soldiers talking about their girlfriends and giving candy bars to little Iraqi children, because then they might just feel guilty for cheering when helicopters get shot down, if your reminded too much that your enemy is a human being, it makes it harder to pull the trigger. Thats why propaganda was invented.
The Walrus
11-27-2003, 03:37 AM
I saw a fly-on-the-wall documentary on BBC2 about the Al-Jazeera office in Baghdad, showing how they operated there until it got bombed, and from what I saw none of them had 'death to the infidel' badges, they came across as proffessional journalists who gave an alternative view to the US press office statements and embedded journalists.
Al-Jazeera is biased towards the anti-US side, but not moreso than fox news was for the US/UK forces, as far as I am concerned they're just telling the other side of the story.
Also, it might be easy to say that war reporters know the risks and it's their fault if they get hurt, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve respect for what they do, just like the US soldiers know the risks and go to Iraq out of their free will.
Royal
11-27-2003, 08:26 AM
In my experience of them around the world 'war' reporters are adrenalin/attention junkies. They're a monumental pain in the arse to have around, partly because you have to baby sit them when they get into the ****, and partly because they'll do anything for the story so they have no regard for OpSec.
However, like everyone here I'm a hypocrite because I watch/read the news - and that's what gives them their oxygen. Without an interested public, there would be point in reporting.
Al J from what I see of them (mostly at work) are no worse than CNN or BBC world (and streets ahead of Fox). They target their reporting to their audience - Arabs, just as Fox targets it's audience - Rednecks.
Reporters are a necessary evil. They will not go away as long as the public (me included) has a thrist for news. They will not stop reporting news that you don't like - unless their audience stops wanting to see it. We (illegally) showed PW's and enemy corpses in the coverage of the 'war' proper, now they are. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Learn to live with it.
errm...what aide have al-jazeera given?? the only thing they did was film their actions, and that's it! if you say they're helping terrorists because they arent helping the US you're talking pretty stinky crap :roll:
If somebody told me, "hey pal, watch me shoot down this passenger jet with this MANPAD", I'd call the cops. I wouldn't film it, and then make big $$ off selling it to other organizations. They are padding thier wallets at the expense of our fellow humans.
They may not directy aid the Ts (or who knows, maybe they do) but they sure as hell deserve to be put in jail for failing to act to prevent the needless loss of innocent life.
Same goes for us reporters embedded with us troops in the war phase, they were making money out of the death's and suffering of other people just ass well.
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