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Kingpin
11-27-2003, 11:18 AM
Nice article


By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Published: November 27, 2003


Мemo to: President Bush

From: Saddam Hussein

Dear Bush: Well, it's been a while since we last communicated. It's not easy getting tapes out from this basement in Tikrit, but I thought it was time we had a little chat. Heard your speech on Arab democracy on the BBC Arabic Service. I'll give you this, Bush, you and Blair do understand the stakes. It's your willpower I doubt.

You see, Bush, this really is "The Mother of All Battles." You may not have meant to, but you have triggered a huge civilizational war — the war within Islam. Who wins in Iraq will have a big impact on this war — which is now spreading to Indonesia, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

By now you've realized that I was prepared for this war. I got rid of all my W.M.D., hid explosives and set up an underground network to fight you once you were in country. But God bless the Turkish Parliament. By not allowing you to use Turkey to invade from the north, my boys in the Sunni Triangle were spared. By the time you got here from the south, we just receded into the shadows. You occupied our Sunni towns, but never defeated them. Had you been able to sweep down from the north, my boys would have had to engage you, and you would have killed them wholesale by the hundreds. Now you have to kill them retail — one by one.

We're not fanatics. We're I.B.M. We have a business plan and we're executing it: We started by eliminating the U.N., the Red Cross and attacking oil pipelines. Then we moved against the countries that have sent troops or might — Italy, Jordan and Turkey. And now we're killing all Iraqis who collaborate with you — police, army, judges, technocrats. We know who everyone is and where they live. We're "a learning enemy." When you adapt to us, we re-adapt to you. Yes, we're secular Baathists, but we've made contact with Islamic militants from Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Syria, and they drive our suicide vans. So many volunteers, so many good targets.

What we all believe is that if we can defeat you here, American cultural, political and economic influence in this part of the world will be finished for a long time.

So far, I feel pretty good. As isolated as I am in my bunker, I know that my view of this war — which is that you Americans have come here to put the Arabs down and steal our oil — still dominates Arab public opinion. I am bolstered by the fact that ill-qualified, intolerant Arab religious educators, spiritual leaders and "intellectuals" — who have long dominated our schools and mosques because tyrants like me found them useful — still feed this view to our youth. They think the only reason we are backward is because you put us down.

As long as the Arab street is locked in this view, I win. Because it means the people would rather have a cruel Arab leader like me or bin Laden — who momentarily lifts their pride by sticking a finger in your eye — than looking in the mirror and admitting that our society, religious leaders and culture have failed to prepare our people to succeed at modernity.

Changing all this is what this war of ideas is all about, and I am so pleased you are so bad at it. As long as you let one of your top generals and your pals on the Christian right spew hate against the Prophet Muhammad, you only strengthen the will of my young people against you. And your "moderate" Arab allies are good at the police tactics to repress our angry, humiliated youth, but they have no serious strategy to give them new jobs, new ideas and new beliefs.

Yes, Bush, you and Blair have kicked off something very big — a war of ideas with, and within, Islam. It's as big as the cold war. But to win, you have to mobilize your whole society, as you did in the cold war. You are talking about trying to change a whole civilization, whose backward, fanatical elements — when combined with modern technology — now threaten you.

Yet your Pentagon only talks about pulling troops out of Iraq, when you should be putting more in. What are you thinking? You should have brought every soldier you have in Europe and Japan right here. The whole game comes down to security. We are in a race to see who gets to the tipping point first. Iraqis will follow the strong horse. My bet is that I can generate enough insecurity among Iraqis to shun you, before you can induce them to carry out your program to build a democratic alternative to me.

I still think I can win, because I prepped my base for the Mother of All Battles, and you prepared yours for Mother Goose — a short war, with few troops, few funerals and no sacrifices for average Americans. Sorry pal, but that's no way to win The Big One.

hood
11-27-2003, 12:20 PM
So the idea is that you're going to use your membership here to fill up the board with anti-american photos and editorials, and become the mouthpiece of Saddam Hussein? I just want to make sure so I can head it off now. I'm not interested in constantly seeing posts from people who are just looking for attention.

firwinn
11-27-2003, 12:30 PM
whats wrong with that post? Why does it always have to be shiny F***ing guns on this site?

Roger Rabbit
11-27-2003, 12:32 PM
the website is called militaryPHOTOS. Thats a political article. See the difference?

Kingpin
11-27-2003, 12:34 PM
So the idea is that you're going to use your membership here to fill up the board with anti-american photos and editorials, and become the mouthpiece of Saddam Hussein? I just want to make sure so I can head it off now. I'm not interested in constantly seeing posts from people who are just looking for attention.

Mmm... interesting idea. But actually this article is from one honorable respectable hewspaper called New York Times. Since when New York Times' articles are considered as pro-Saddam propaganda?

I'm looking for attention? To me? Or to anti-american editorials?

I don't need attention to my person but "thanks" is always welcome if i dig up something really interesting.

As for anti-american editorials... hehe p-) funny man. I just post all the same that post western media. I don't post al Jazeera :)

Do you know where i take pics of destroyed US equipment? On webshots.com where they posted by US men. ;)

Some time ago i was tired to see that US folks biasing information in required for them direction. I just do same job in other direction. Why i can't do this? May be you're really working in PsyOp and have problems because someone preventing you from performing your job successully? Who knows...

duck
11-27-2003, 12:34 PM
Don't know about other posts but where is the anti-Americanism in that editorial? It is using the means of satire to explain that sacrifices are needed to bring freedom and peace to Iraq.

Kingpin
11-27-2003, 12:40 PM
the website is called militaryPHOTOS. Thats a political article. See the difference?

NO! This article concerns MILITARY (and guerilla's) tactics and strategy chosen by both sides to win Iraq war. Yes, this article will be used to make political pressure at administration but this is your internal affair.

So this post is still on-topic.

As for me i found that author of this article wrote some very interesting ideas which seems to be correct in the light of last events.

Roger Rabbit
11-27-2003, 12:40 PM
That article can be used by anybody and everybody to make a political point. Some could say its a reason to send everyone the Americans have to Iraq, and also to get other NATO troops in. Others could say its a reason to clear out and let the UN do their job, some could say its a reason for war on the Middle East and others for war on the West.

Back to my point before though, this is militaryPHOTOS. Its about discussing the military side of things and trying to avoid the political side. You show me one thread which drags in politics that does not end up as a flaming match.

Trident-za
11-27-2003, 12:41 PM
I actually thought that was a PRO-US article, must have misread it :(

This is how I saw it: a "tongue in cheek" letter designed to show how important US presence in Iraq is, and how important it is that the battle be won......

Maybe you guys are right, but thats how I read it ....

Kingpin
11-27-2003, 12:52 PM
That article can be used by anybody and everybody to make a political point. Some could say its a reason to send everyone the Americans have to Iraq, and also to get other NATO troops in. Others could say its a reason to clear out and let the UN do their job, some could say its a reason for war on the Middle East and others for war on the West.

Back to my point before though, this is militaryPHOTOS. Its about discussing the military side of things and trying to avoid the political side. You show me one thread which drags in politics that does not end up as a flaming match.

OK. Let's make intensive discussion on really military questions.
Imagine i posted here this:
http://www.sftt.org/PDF/article11212003a.pdf
Now make your comments if any :)

ShotOver
11-28-2003, 02:39 AM
Ban the commie ****er.

Un-American prick.

Kingpin
11-28-2003, 03:38 AM
Ban the commie f***.

Un-American prick.

Yeah, yeah. I bet this is all you know about our world's geography:

http://www.iraqwar.ru/show_image.php?id=916

rofl rofl rofl

StarvingStudent47
11-28-2003, 04:17 AM
Hey Kingpin--that'd make more sense if you hadn't directed it at an AUSSIE ;)

Roger Rabbit
11-28-2003, 04:21 AM
It is quite a funny map though, i mght do one for some of the more backward areas of the U of K.

Kingpin
11-28-2003, 05:13 AM
Hey Kingpin--that'd make more sense if you hadn't directed it at an AUSSIE ;)

It have some sense since PT is considering Australia as part of US.

mocking_loudly_died
11-28-2003, 05:14 AM
Hehe.

Amusing pic.

:D

Vance
11-28-2003, 08:58 AM
Oh, that map is soo outdated and plain wrong. Everyone knows Dragons don't exist.

rokus2595
11-28-2003, 09:56 AM
This is NOT my favourite NYTimes writer....


....But God bless the Turkish Parliament. By not allowing you to use Turkey to invade from the north, my boys in the Sunni Triangle were spared. By the time you got here from the south, we just receded into the shadows. ....the reason why Turish Parliament didn't allow American troops to invade from the North was because they felt this was a war of aggresion.......


....I know that my view of this war — which is that you Americans have come here to put the Arabs down and steal our oil — still dominates Arab public opinion. I am bolstered by the fact that ill-qualified, intolerant Arab religious educators, spiritual leaders and "intellectuals" — who have long dominated our schools and mosques because tyrants like me found them useful — still feed this view to our youth.
....the writer then groups those who believe that this war is about oil (and that includes me) along side the likes of Saddam Hussein, and other ill-qualified, intolerant individuals....


......than looking in the mirror and admitting that our society, religious leaders and culture have failed to prepare our people to succeed at modernity....yeah, it is the Iraqis fault that we invaded them....:roll:



Changing all this is what this war of ideas is all about, and I am so pleased you are so bad at it. Actually, Bush and his entourage are pretty good at it....they have succeeded in turning the argument from the illegality of the invasion based on lies, to a moral argument: "But the key point, overlooked by all those who have made the moral case for war, is this: that a moral case is not the same as a moral reason. Whatever the argument for toppling Saddam Hussein on humanitarian grounds may have been, this is not why Bush and Blair went to war"(1)


..You are talking about trying to change a whole civilization, whose backward, fanatical elements — when combined with modern technology — now threaten you... Keep in mind the order of things. 'Those fanatical elements' now threaten America because America invaded, and now occupies, their land..


...My bet is that I can generate enough insecurity among Iraqis to shun you, before you can induce them to carry out your program to build a democratic alternative to me. Lies, it is the Americans that don't want a truly 'democratic' Iraq., not the Iraqis....from today's LA Times: "A U.S.-backed plan to quickly give Iraqis sovereignty over their country again appeared to be unraveling Thursday as a leading politician backed complaints by Shiite Muslim authorities that the process was not DEMOCRATIC enough." ...

(1)http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=40&ItemID=4560

Kingpin
11-28-2003, 10:15 AM
Very good reply.

But as every satire this article is not very deep. This is not analysis but this article give some good hints to think about.

Trident-za
11-28-2003, 03:13 PM
As I said earlier, this is a pro-US article.... very clever wording by the author :) The very subtle (and very skillfull) thread throughout is that if you don't support the war (or the supposed reasons behind it) you are in the same leauge as Saddam or similar "bad people". Very clever, really. Something the old South African government was superb at... It's called propoganda, and despite what several people have claimed above, it is PRO-us, not anti.