Troops' horrific injuries are conflict's hidden cost

[Kingpin]

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~6439~1784912,00.html


Wyatt, 21, was traveling in an M113 Armored Personnel Carrier (APC) with five other soldiers from the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment. The driver turned to outflank the Iraqis. An RPG or anti-tank missile breached 4 inches of armor at the rear of the APC and tore through the legs of Wyatt and two comrades.

"My leg got completely cut off and fell on the ground. What I felt, though, was shrapnel had peppered the other leg, and I thought that was it," he recalls. He kept firing his M240 machine gun. "There were two (enemy) figures in the grass when we got hit, and my biggest fear was they were going to swarm our vehicle. I fired everything we had."

The driver of the APC broke off the attack and swerved, shaking Wyatt from his perch at the rear hatch. It was only then that "I fell backward and saw my leg was completely missing," he says.

The three wounded men began to slump toward the floor. "The scene inside that track was horrible. There was blood and flesh and sinew all over that vehicle, and it stank, like burned flesh," he says.


They want the good-news stories; they don't want the stories of sacrifice," said Steve Robinson, executive director of the National Gulf War Resource Center, a veterans' group.

There are no public ceremonies for the dead coming back through the military receiving center in Dover, Del. The flights of wounded personnel heading for Walter Reed often arrive at night at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland.

"The wounded are brought back after midnight, making sure the press does not see the planes coming in," U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., said recently on the Senate floor. "These are not a broken wrist or scratched leg. These are terrible wounds: lost limbs, lost eyesight, lifetime disabilities."

It is "something the administration prefers not to talk about," Leahy said.

[firwinn]

I really like u kingpin, bringing everything out in the open like this woot (all thou ppl probably knew this :P)

[Kingpin]

I really like u kingpin, bringing everything out in the open like this woot (all thou ppl probably knew this :P)
;)
I feel sarcasm in your words :-*$ :fork:

[firwinn]

no, actully it was no sarcasm...

[hood]

There's a difference between showing both sides, and having every post of yours talk about or show dead or mutilated American soldiers which is starting to be what is happening which I'm tiring of very quickly.

[Kingpin]

There's a difference between showing both sides, and having every post of yours talk about or show dead or mutilated American soldiers which is starting to be what is happening which I'm tiring of very quickly.

There is no need to post stories about American successes because American media full of them. Why i should post anything showing US side action? You have CENTCOM, Rummy, Dubya, Rice, FOXNEWS etc. and forum here full of pics showing US. This is called "biasing". ;)

Why for example i must post Abrams photos? Operation Ivy does this all the time. :)

[PAK]

There is no need to post stories about American successes because American media full of them. Why i should post anything showing US side action? You have CENTCOM, Rummy, Dubya, Rice, FOXNEWS etc. and forum here full of pics showing US. This is called "biasing". ;)

Why for example i must post Abrams photos? Operation Ivy does this all the time. :)

There's no need to post such stories like above. There're plenty of them in media too. If someone wants to find desired information, he will find it easily.
About "biasing" - did you post stories about russian losses in Chechnya too? About those burned remains in many sealed cars? About those hundreds lost during one night of december the 31st 1994? Were YOU so objective then, as you are posing to be now?
Stop talking nonsenses, about "biasing", objectivism, acces to informations, and stuff like this. Tell the truth, that you enjoy stories about american losses. It will clear the situation, everyone will know your stance. But please, stop playing with "being objectivism" and "fighting biasing", it is just pitiful....

[Jack Mehoff]

*can't......resist............to.....post.....pictures......of.....dead.....russians.........soldiers.......*

I'm sure i can find plenty of dead Russians consider the fact that Russia have the most casualties more than anybody this century. :lol:

[Kingpin]

*can't......resist............to.....post.....pictures......of.....dead.....russians.........soldiers.......*

I'm sure i can find plenty of dead Russians consider the fact that Russia have the most casualties more than anybody this century. :lol:

Don't forget to use links instead of pictures and place disclaimer or get banned :-*$

But stop! You no need this because nobody incl. Hood does not care about those pesky Russians. So nobody will blame you for posting pics without warning ;)

[Kingpin]

Stop talking nonsenses, about "biasing", objectivism, acces to informations, and stuff like this. Tell the truth, that you enjoy stories about american losses. It will clear the situation, everyone will know your stance. But please, stop playing with "being objectivism" and "fighting biasing", it is just pitiful....

I'm not objective. I'm not fighting biasing. I just post everything that is interesting for me. Unfortunately i'm interested in Russian army in Chechnya and US army in Iraq.

As for 1995 in Grozny i posted here fearsome memoirs about those days. Nobody replied and i suppose nobody read. But just i posted something about US troubles flame started immediately with all US and Poland folks jumping out to defend their stripes and stars (since when this became Poland flag? ;) ;) ).

[Ratamacue]

Kingpin, the US media doesn't really show the things we're doing right in Iraq. All it does is talk about the latest casualties and "what went wrong." FOX News tries to show what we're doing well on the combat side, but no one really shows the humanitarian sort of things we do there.

[Kingpin]

Kingpin, the US media doesn't really show the things we're doing right in Iraq. All it does is talk about the latest casualties and "what went wrong." FOX News tries to show what we're doing well on the combat side, but no one really shows the humanitarian sort of things we do there.

May be. I asked Hood to share with me videos he have (like one he posted from foxnews about minigun). But he didn't answered. I can't receive US channels here.

Actually i made my desision about what you're hearing in media by watching and reading previous reports about how it was easy to win in Iraq and how fast situation improving in Iraq after war. Now situation in media changed?

As for humanitarian efforts - they useless anyway. We, Russians, have a lot of experience about it


Here is an example:
One platoon of paratroopers was positioned outside a small village. The guys helped the villagers to build a school and set up a local hospital. Soldiers were giving their food to hungry chechens. And what they got in reponse??
The same villagers were shooting at their outpost at night. The kids were setting up exlosives on the roads. Then one night, chechens fired several mortars towards the post. As the result of that, two soldiers died.
What we did in response? "Cleaned up" a village, and by the end of the operation, the commander had a necklace made of 38 left ears. That village has been the calmest place in chechnya ever since.

As you see, those people only understand force. If it wasn't for a lot of crap from the central command, and some "democratic" and "human rights" whiners for being a little tough on "civilians", we could have taken care of the whole chechnya issue a long time ago.


http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5567

No, Kabul today bears a strong resemblance to the Kabul of 1981. This time the men setting the model are American rather than Russian, but the project for secular modernisation which Washington has embarked on is eerily reminiscent of what the Soviet Union tried to do. Schools, hospitals, electrification, rights for women, an expansion of education - it's the same mix as the Russians were encouraging.

[PsihoKeke]

As for 1995 in Grozny i posted here fearsome memoirs about those days. Nobody replied and i suppose nobody read. But just i posted something about US troubles flame started immediately with all US and Poland folks jumping out to defend their stripes and stars (since when this became Poland flag? ;) ;) ).

You mean Assault on downtow Grozny? I read that some years ago (found link on Snipercountry). Well if no one else read that, their loss.

[usa320]

There is no need to post stories about American successes because American media full of them

Yeah, and Iraqi State Media showed how brutal saddam was.

:roll:

[Kingpin]

There is no need to post stories about American successes because American media full of them

Yeah, and Iraqi State Media showed how brutal saddam was.

:roll:

BTW does Iraqi television begin broadcasting?

[Seraphim]

Don't forget to use links instead of pictures and place disclaimer or get banned :-*$

But stop! You no need this because nobody incl. Hood does not care about those pesky Russians. So nobody will blame you for posting pics without warning ;)

Actually there were some pics before of dead Russians but HOOD TOOK THEM OFF! :backhand:

I didnt mind reading this article btw.

[Kingpin]

Yes, I go a little wrong way. Definitely forum rules has no exclusions

[ShotOver]

Your a real pain in the arse mate, were all getting sick and tired of your crap.

[Kingpin]

Your a real pain in the arse mate, were all getting sick and tired of your crap.

Don't like it - don't read it. This is simple.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Don't like it - don't read it. This is simple.

Pretty much

[Operation Ivy]

Why for example i must post Abrams photos? Operation Ivy does this all the time.

Ahhhhhh keep me out of here :D , i dont like all the yelling :P

[Vance]

I think Kingpin posting these articles is fine - as long as he doesn't include some anti-American statement of his own at the bottom. He's showing the grim side of war, and the people affected most by it. He's only showing us the TRUE side of war - past the glory and heroic image that some people portray it as.

Yet, I'm an optimist, and even though I like to hear about the good news and not the bad, sometimes we need an eye-opener.

[Kingpin]

I think Kingpin posting these articles is fine - as long as he doesn't include some anti-American statement of his own at the bottom. He's showing the grim side of war, and the people affected most by it. He's only showing us the TRUE side of war - past the glory and heroic image that some people portray it as.

Yet, I'm an optimist, and even though I like to hear about the good news and not the bad, sometimes we need an eye-opener.

Thanks for understanding.

[Upfrontreporting]

I see no problems in bringing the nitty-gritty stories from any given conflict if it serves a purpose.

The unfortunate soldier in the article from Denverpost derserves to be mentioned, his story need to be told. Despite his severe injuries he kept on fighting, in a situation where it would be perfectly understandable if he had seized all activity. He's a hero.
If you have been in a very violent situation (war, accident, etc.) there is usually a strongfilled wish for having your story told, like this article.

The ones who sits at home sending the troops to war need to face the consequences of their actions, both the politicians and those of us who supports the operations in Iraq and elsewhere. This we can not if the troops to get to tell their story. It is wrong to cover up certain parts of
the everyday life of the troops, just because it's not picture-perfect. If we don't let our respective nations' troops tell THEIR story we're not giving them enough respect.

Of course if it's just to promote blood and gore then it's a problem, there should allways be a purpose with the stories and pictures one brings, not just blood and gore.


regards.

[Trident-za]

I think Kingpin posting these articles is fine - as long as he doesn't include some anti-American statement of his own at the bottom. He's showing the grim side of war, and the people affected most by it. He's only showing us the TRUE side of war - past the glory and heroic image that some people portray it as.



Absolutely correct. A bit of balance is good for the soul and prevents people on both sides of the fence from getting too carried away with themselves :P I also find stories like this interesting, not because I'm anti-US or anti-war or ati-anything at all, just because they are, well, interesting.... the only legitimate reason I could see for complaining about this thread is if the article was factually incorrect.....

[PAK]

I'm not objective. I'm not fighting biasing. I just post everything that is interesting for me. Unfortunately i'm interested in Russian army in Chechnya and US army in Iraq.

Explanation received. Unfortunately, you seem to be only interested in american losses.


As for 1995 in Grozny i posted here fearsome memoirs about those days. Nobody replied and i suppose nobody read. But just i posted something about US troubles flame started immediately with all US and Poland folks jumping out to defend their stripes and stars (since when this became Poland flag? ;) ;) ).

Critising you is flame? Come on, you won't get a general applause - too many people, too many oppinions. You think, that you are representing the absolute true?
About Poles: currently I'm the only one Pole criticizing you. And I'm not defending US, or Stars and Stripes. They don't need defending. Especially from me. I'm presenting my oppinions. You can't understand it? Strange.
About flag - Poland didn't change its national flag since the year 1919. Even communists didn't change it - although they changed (or deformed) Polish Emblem.

[Jacko]

How are these sorts of injuries the 'hidden cost' of war when Time magazine ran a 4+ page article solely about soldiers recieving prosthetics due in the war just a couple of weeks ago?

[Haiw]

it's the hidden cost since the number of wounded people isn't really 'known'....and since those victims also receive hardly any attention at all...i mean, how many articles about these things have you seen on the DoD site?

[ShotOver]

Kingpin - American hating commie.

[firwinn]

PT, do even know what a commie is?

[ShotOver]

Yes, i do.

[Haiw]

isn't it the western equivalent of the muslim word 'infidel'?