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bayul
04-12-2005, 02:13 AM
I was recently having a discussion with someone about gunshot wounds - specifically in terms of level of pain. Although pain isn't really something quantifiable and that in itself is another issue, but between getting shot in the stomach or the knee - which one is more painful, and is there a 'worse' place to get shot, aside from anywhere...
Sources would be appreciated, as opposed to 'I heard from this guy's cousin who married this chick who knew a guy who was a medic'

Thanks

FallenAngel
04-12-2005, 02:15 AM
i dont know about pain, but having someone blow your balls off would be pretty traumatizing I would think. :|

ArmedPacifist
04-12-2005, 02:56 AM
According to resevoir dogs, the kneecap and the stomach are the most painful areas a guy can get shot in.

pathfinder82
04-12-2005, 03:00 AM
Being shot in the lower stomach/abdoman area is about the worst in terms of pain and the fact you will almost always expire. Bad dudes in movies always go for the knee caps or other joints, which im sure is very painful, but is best used to permanently cripple the combatant, your not putting a knee back together after that, and most likely hes gonna lose the leg. Being shot in the hip area is about the worst, thick bone, large artery's, and not to mention the fact it supports your internal organs making upright walking possible. It is said people who are shot in the lower abdoman go into a deeper state of shock after being hit and that the pain from such a wound can actually cause the wounded to give up and want to die.

This actually ties in with scientists arguements for evolution, human beings are not someones perfect creation. Other species have evolved in the correct fashion, by luck really, their internal organs are protected by the way their bodies function. When are bodies evolved into what they are now we were still on hands and knees or at best walked upright but with a knuckle dragging fashion keeping us very low to the ground, protecting your chest and *******s. Somewhere along the line we stood-up and thus changed the very way we protect ourselves. Now our vital organs are not really protected all that well, we have the ribcage and thats it.

almkvist
04-12-2005, 03:04 AM
HJP In the balls. :|

Dude, Seriously
04-12-2005, 03:10 AM
I would WANT to die if I were to lose my balls because there would then be no point in living ;)

Raistlin
04-12-2005, 03:32 AM
I would have my *** changed and start new life as a hot chick.

Err *ahem* Beats being dead.

...

Right?

GrimmyRX
04-12-2005, 03:56 AM
I would WANT to die if I were to lose my balls because there would then be no point in living ;)

I tried to read your message, I really did... but then your avatar caught my attention, :P

I'd agree with the stomach shot though. Just the thought of something metal ripping into my lower vital organs... *shudder*

Sir Zach of R.
04-12-2005, 04:41 AM
I would WANT to die if I were to lose my balls because there would then be no point in living ;)

I tried to read your message, I really did... but then your avatar caught my attention, :P


x2 What's worse is I know where it came from. :lol:

Rilence
04-12-2005, 05:04 AM
I would WANT to die if I were to lose my balls because there would then be no point in living ;)

I tried to read your message, I really did... but then your avatar caught my attention, :P


x2 What's worse is I know where it came from. :lol:
teh ****?? p-)

i thought i saw her from somewhere. :P

2RHPZ
04-12-2005, 05:07 AM
EDIT

ShotOver
04-12-2005, 05:13 AM
Whoah, that's nasty. But he would of passed out probally from that pain.

2RHPZ
04-12-2005, 05:18 AM
EDIT

Opening Batsman
04-12-2005, 05:36 AM
Warning: Graphic (http://img236.echo.cx/img236/6497/10003502ea.jpg) - picture taken during surgery ...

I hereby resolve to never shoot myself in the leg... OUCH!

GazB
04-12-2005, 06:24 AM
I remember reading an article some time back written by a guy who was developing a new target for police and civilians to practise with.
(sorry I can't be more specific).

But anyway this target was different from most targets as there weren't concentric circles with top score in the centre and gradually reducing scores as you moved out. The brain area of the head was a 10 as was the heart and spinal column but a shot to teh side of the jaw was a 1. If you missed the heart and the lungs and the spinal column and just hit chest then you got a 1 or 2. I think a gut shot was a 4, as was a hip or knee hit as they were all considered mobility hits. (ie they wouldn't necessarily stop the target firing back but would certainly have an effect).

A groin shot was worth 1 point. In the article he mentioned that was on purpose. He had carefully studied reports and police statistics of people being shot, from very angry determined people to passive people, from those on drugs or drunk to fully sober. He found that although a groin shot might prevent a rape it rarely actually stopped a target from an attack. If not followed up with lethal shots it would often lead to a frenzied attack by the now nutless attacker that may not have occured otherwise.

In otherwords if a guy is going to rape you shoot him in the head, not the balls otherwise a rape might just turn into a serious beating and probably murder. A groin shot is not actually crippling agony as the target generally goes into shock and is to a degree quite unaware of the pain. Of course if they don't go into shock then the number of nerve endings in the area would make the pain quite extreme, but removal of the balls via gunshot would be less painful than a bullet through the balls.

More relevant to this thread he also said that an average target can be approaching their victim rapidly and a lot of shots like a groin shot will not change that if they are on drugs or very angry. So the pain didn't seem to stop them from attacking.

As a side note he also discussed the hollywood depiction of targets being blown "away" often jumping up in the air as the bullet hits them.
If you look carefully at such depictions the target will often stop moving forward and start to jump backwards before the bullet even hits them. But by the time you realise you are hit and start to lose function of your body the bullet is likely to be 200m away and moving further away every second. If a pistol or rifle round doesn't throw the firer to the ground when they fire why would it throw the target backwards for teh split second the bullet is inside them?

In fact one of the tricks to succeed in the American wild west... according to a very reliable source (FHM) was to lean forward in a gunfight. That way if he got you you'd fall forward and still see him for a possible second shot if you could still fire, and move your head and firing arm. (ie a shot to the hip or gut would likely drop you but falling forward would enable you to still see your target and fire at him.)

pathfinder82
04-12-2005, 06:41 AM
Moving or leaning forward is still taught, its kind of like charge an ambush, do exactly the opposite the enemy is thinking youll do and keep the preasure on em.

bayul
04-12-2005, 10:49 AM
thanks - any links to medical or other sources substantiating the stomach thing?

Werewolf01
04-12-2005, 10:52 AM
I would WANT to die if I were to lose my balls because there would then be no point in living ;)

I tried to read your message, I really did... but then your avatar caught my attention, :P


x2 What's worse is I know where it came from. :lol:

Do tell: whither comes the distracting avatar?

Werewolf01
04-12-2005, 10:53 AM
This Danish soldier had weapon discharge, the bullet (7.62mm) went to the calf, broke his bone fataly and went out through the sole

Warning: Graphic (http://img236.echo.cx/img236/6497/10003502ea.jpg) - picture taken during surgery ...

I find myself in pain from just looking at that! :(

panzerjager
04-12-2005, 11:30 AM
Any gunshot that wounds me is the most painful!

medic99
04-12-2005, 11:37 AM
Bayul, PM sent.

Praetorian 05
04-12-2005, 11:42 AM
If a pistol or rifle round doesn't throw the firer to the ground when they fire why would it throw the target backwards for teh split second the bullet is inside them?

Kinetic energy.

GothicSnake
04-12-2005, 11:52 AM
Any gunshot that wounds me is the most painful!rofl Same here!

California Joe
04-12-2005, 12:01 PM
Exactly. I'll let you know if I'm ever shot anyfrigginwhere. Because I guarantee it'll be the most painful gunshot wound I've ever suffered.

Now why don't you ask another retarded question. Maybe one about who has the best Special Forces......

moughoun
04-12-2005, 12:07 PM
Exactly. I'll let you know if I'm ever shot anyfrigginwhere. Because I guarantee it'll be the most painful gunshot wound I've ever suffered.

Now why don't you ask another retarded question. Maybe one about who has the best Special Forces......

everyone know's it's Rainbow six Joe :roll:













p-)

California Joe
04-12-2005, 12:45 PM
Well Duh!!!!!!

Worst place to suffer a paper cut......I'm thinking the webbing between the thumb and forefinger.

GothicSnake
04-12-2005, 12:52 PM
Well Duh!!!!!!

Worst place to suffer a paper cut......I'm thinking the webbing between the thumb and forefinger.Or any between any fingers/toes...that's gotta suck ass. :| The most painful injury I've ever had was a minor burn on my index finger, I've had considerably worse injuries, but for some reason that little burn was the most excruciating pain I'd ever been in. It was a total "wtf?" moment for me.

Ratman
04-12-2005, 12:55 PM
Ouch, that is the WORST place. Band aids won't stick and you have to walk around with you hand paralyzed for hours before you forget about it and then go ahead and try to grab something and it opens up again.

Sabre
04-12-2005, 01:01 PM
This Danish soldier had weapon discharge, the bullet (7.62mm) went to the calf, broke his bone fataly and went out through the sole

Warning: Graphic (http://img236.echo.cx/img236/6497/10003502ea.jpg) - picture taken during surgery ...

Hmm, the Danes seem to be using the same external fixators we use. European supplier obviously. ;)

Most painful? Pain is subjective. That's a virtually impossible question to answer. I would imagine the pain from an abdominal wound would be quite bad. The peritoneum becomes irritated when blood comes in contact with it and causes intense 'peritoneal' pain. Not good, but that mate, is why we carry morphine!

Lightweight 88
04-12-2005, 01:18 PM
I dunno about gunshot wounds but I remember reading a rather machevellian text on torture.. Yes I know, I know, I was a stood at the time okay?

It espoused that the best place on the body to "play" with was the knee. Specifically the muscle group at the rear.

Yosy
04-12-2005, 03:35 PM
Exactly. I'll let you know if I'm ever shot anyfrigginwhere. Because I guarantee it'll be the most painful gunshot wound I've ever suffered.

Now why don't you ask another retarded question. Maybe one about who has the best Special Forces......

I think you're exagerating: his question is not retarded; it actually originated an interesting debate here.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather take a bullet in the head than one that would leave me seriously injuried.

Karmapolice
04-12-2005, 03:39 PM
If a pistol or rifle round doesn't throw the firer to the ground when they fire why would it throw the target backwards for teh split second the bullet is inside them?

Kinetic energy.

Actually he is right, its called the laws of physics, plus the did a myth busters on it also and it was proven wrong.

2RHPZ
04-12-2005, 04:33 PM
EDIT

Sabre
04-12-2005, 04:40 PM
Interesting...I'm not sure why the Czechs would't have access to them.

Still, I can't believe I just came out of my 'medical equipment annorak' closet :cantbeli: :lol:

The new buzz is surrounding a new type of 'locking' plate. Instead of the old plates that went right up next to bone and pulled into it when the screws were tightened, the new locking plates actually lock the screw head in after it has been screwed in home. This prevents the plate from being pulled towards the bone fragments and vice versa, stopping the fracture reduction from displacing whilst tightening. It, in effect, acts as an external fixation device but inside the limb. The advantage being a one-stop-shop procedure, quicker rehab and mobilisation and less chance of infection.

Cool stuff. If you like that sort of thing. :D

2RHPZ
04-12-2005, 05:16 PM
EDIT

2RHPZ
04-12-2005, 05:29 PM
EDIT

2RHPZ
04-12-2005, 05:43 PM
EDIT

RGRBOX
04-12-2005, 06:00 PM
Being shot in the lower stomach/abdoman area is about the worst in terms of pain and the fact you will almost always expire. Bad dudes in movies always go for the knee caps or other joints, which im sure is very painful, but is best used to permanently cripple the combatant, your not putting a knee back together after that, and most likely hes gonna lose the leg. Being shot in the hip area is about the worst, thick bone, large artery's, and not to mention the fact it supports your internal organs making upright walking possible. It is said people who are shot in the lower abdoman go into a deeper state of shock after being hit and that the pain from such a wound can actually cause the wounded to give up and want to die.

This actually ties in with scientists arguements for evolution, human beings are not someones perfect creation. Other species have evolved in the correct fashion, by luck really, their internal organs are protected by the way their bodies function. When are bodies evolved into what they are now we were still on hands and knees or at best walked upright but with a knuckle dragging fashion keeping us very low to the ground, protecting your chest and *******s. Somewhere along the line we stood-up and thus changed the very way we protect ourselves. Now our vital organs are not really protected all that well, we have the ribcage and thats it.

Damn... now that's an explination... What are you studing in school.. tell your parents that they're getting their money worth... smart..

I was wounded in the back of the leg.. never really felt it.. but the recovery was hell..

2RHPZ
04-12-2005, 06:03 PM
EDIT

Sayeret
04-12-2005, 06:30 PM
Why would being shot in the knee or stomach be the most painful wound?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Nearly 20 percent of the time suspects who are shot are no incapacitated by the first round, even if they are fatally wounded.

-Some 13 percent of those who are fatally wounded will continue to live five minutes longer and 7 percent even longer.

-In Philadelphia, a criminal was shot in the heart yet managed to walk down a flight of stairs and open two doors before collapsing.

-In New York, a criminal was hit in the stomach, bladder, and gallbladder ran three blocks before falling over.

-In Los Angles, a criminal kept firing his gun even after being shot 20 times before the 21st one killed him.

-A liquor store robber was shot by 33 9mm rounds before he finally became incapacitated.

-Even after being fatally wounded people can do substantial damage before finally dying.

-A police officer who shot one suspect in the chest and stomach and watched him fall to the ground was surprised to see the robber get back up and over power the officer taking his shotgun and killing the officer and wounding several other people in the bar before finally dying.

-Another incident occurred in which a police officer unloaded his .38 revolver into a suspect's chest and watched him fall. The bullets broke several ribs, penetrated both lungs and punctured enough blood vessels to produce massive internal bleeding yet the suspect got back up and still clutching his 9mm handgun got up and starting firing again. The police officer being shot at lunged for the revolver on his wounded partner's belt and killed the suspect instantly by shooting him in the head.

-How people react to being shot is sometimes more important than the actual power of the bullet they are shot with.

-In Illinois an officer died after being shot in the arm by a .22 caliber bullet. The doctor's considered it a "psychosomatic death" because the officer felt hopelessness, helplessness, and a feeling of abandonment after being shot.

-A positive attitude mental attitude can have a huge influence on someone's survival.

-One of the famous incidents of people continuing fighting after being shot several times occurred in Miami. At about 9:20 AM on April 11, 1986, the firefight occurred between two criminals suspected of bank robbery and murder, and eight FBI agents. The fight lasted four minutes and resulted in the death of both criminals, two FBI agents, five of the six remaining were injured, and three seriously. At the beginning of the fight William Matix was incapacitated by the FBI agents, the second criminal Michael Platt, continued firing even after being shot twelve times. He was finally killed when the FBI agent Ed Miereles although seriously injured, fired a shotgun 2-5 times at Platt who was attempting to flee in one of the other agents' car. After firing several shots from the shotgun, Miereles walked up right next to the car and fired three bullets into each of the criminals with his .357 revolver.

If you want to learn more about the firefight here:

http://www.thegunzone.com/11april86.html

Marmot1
04-12-2005, 07:33 PM
I know a guy who shoot another one in knee from left side and bullet (9mm Makarov) went thru it but by some miracle did not damaged any bones... 2 day later victim left hospital and one month later was fully recorvered... lucky bastard :fork:

I heard from doctor today that liver and abdomen wounds in general are one of most painful and dificult to treat (extensive bleeding)

hood
04-12-2005, 08:18 PM
This is one of those topics that if kept serious can be interesting or could go the way that California mentions if not. I think we're ok here. :) As for pain, the front part of the knee are and knee joint really aren't painful. It's the back which someone else mentioned here where all of the serious stuff goes through. I remember I was lying face down on a really old matress when I was younger, and one of the sharp springs had poked through the covering. Later on I walked into the kitchen and when my mother noticed I had torn my jeans, inspected the area, only to be shocked that I had a big gash opening right into my knee. She said it was easily a centimeter deep if not more. Amazingly enough though, I never felt a thing and there was no blood at all.

Russ.Dill
04-12-2005, 08:23 PM
I suppose the lesson is, if you are going to carry a handgun, carry something with some stopping power.

RBIH_Troop
04-12-2005, 08:45 PM
I don't think getting shot in the stomach would hurt a lot because the intestine and liver and stuff don't have any nerves which can't cause pain if there is no nerves. Geting shot in the knee would hurt...My father got shot during the Bosnian War, he was running with his men across a while and the serb side opened fire and caught him in the leg ....bullet entered and exited...If ur wondering what gun, it was a AK-47...

Russ.Dill
04-12-2005, 09:37 PM
I don't think getting shot in the stomach would hurt a lot because the intestine and liver and stuff don't have any nerves which can't cause pain if there is no nerves. Geting shot in the knee would hurt...My father got shot during the Bosnian War, he was running with his men across a while and the serb side opened fire and caught him in the leg ....bullet entered and exited...If ur wondering what gun, it was a AK-47...

The lining of your intestinal cavity most certainly has nerves, and if just about anything happens to it, it aparently burns like fire.

jasonglh
04-12-2005, 10:42 PM
I don't think getting shot in the stomach would hurt a lot because the intestine and liver and stuff don't have any nerves which can't cause pain if there is no nerves.

Tell that to someone with a small bowel obstruction.


I was taught the most painful dislocation of a joint was the knee due to so many nerves going through such a small space. Not sure how that would translate to a GSW. I could get my textbook down to verify but its heavy. ;)

Uncle Sam
04-12-2005, 10:57 PM
Most painful gunshot wound?

That would have to be if I get shot. That would be the most painful gunshot wound.

GazB
04-13-2005, 03:39 AM
Kinetic energy.


Actually he is right, its called the laws of physics, plus the did a myth busters on it also and it was proven wrong.

At a very simple level if firing a bullet doesn't knock you to the ground how can being hit by one do so... and I am talking purely kinetics here.
If a bullet hits you and goes right through and carries on then the impact kinetic energy would equal the kinetic energy at the muzzle of the gun minus the kinetic energy lost while it travelled from the muzzle to you, and also minus the energy it is using to continue to travel after it has passed through your body. If a bullet is a low velocity blunt bullet like a pistol bullet and gets caught or is stopped by a heavy bone and therefore all of its energy is dumped into that particular body part the energy involved will not be any greater than the recoil of the gun that fired it.

Remember force equals mass times velocity... the force needed to move a very large object like a human body is greater than the force needed to accelerate a very smal piece of metal to super sonic speeds.

This is kinda boring stuff so if you'd like to continue talking about it perhaps a seperate thread might be a good idea?

Back to topic the real problem :

As Sayeret pointed out many villans hit in the heart can continue to operate for several seconds and even a minute or two. Statistics recorded by the French during the French revolution show that a severed head on its own can be concious for up to 8 seconds till it runs out of oxygen normally supplied by blood flow through the neck. A bullet through the heart will stop blood flow but not prevent physical movement or thought.

(Now that I think about it that target I was talking about that that guy made had the heart as a 9 point and the spinal column and brain as the only 10s reflecting the stats Sayeret has mentioned showing that in some cases a heart shot might not save you. Drugs, shock, and many other factors might mean the target doesn't even feel the hits let alone be stopped by them... a bullet through the brain however will definitely stop activity. (Though I have read strangely that one point against using flecchettes as a standard round is that if they don't bend and fishhook they can travel straight through a beating heart and not stop it...)

2RHPZ
04-13-2005, 09:14 AM
EDIT

Sayeret
04-13-2005, 07:10 PM
Generally it's better to aim at the center mass of a target rather than their head simply because it's much more difficult to hit. Even if you shoot someone in the brain they can still sometimes have a reflexive motor action which might caused them to still pull the trigger or their gun if for example they are holding a hostage which might kill or wound them.

Even when aiming at someone's head it's best to aim on the center mass of it. If the person shot in the head falls to his/her side they probably are incapacitated as compared to someone who fall straight down who would most likely be dead.

-In Louisiana, a police sniper fired at a gunman who was holding a hostage as he attempted to get into car. The bullet the sniper fired hit and killed the man but was so close it creased the hostage's face.

-In Milwaukee, a barricaded subject was killed by a sniper who getting get a clear enough shot of his head, so he fired at his chest. The .308 bullet struck the man in the center mass in the breastbone at armpit and actually caused him to flip backward in a somersault, he was dead before he hit the ground.

-James Oliver Huberty the man who killed 21 people and wounded another 19 in a McDonald’s in San Ysidro, CA was killed by a single .308 bullet hit Huberty’s chest just above the heart, and tore through his body, shattering the spinal column.

-In Wisconsin a barricaded criminal who was holding a police chief hostage in his car was shot in the head by a .45 caliber bullet. However, the bullet ricocheted around his scalp instead of penetrating his skill. A second head shot with a .38 revolver knocked him down. When police officers rushed over to his car they noticed he was still clutching his gun and finger's still twitching. One of the police officers shot him five more times.

SGMGSG9
04-13-2005, 08:58 PM
Absolutely with out any question or doubt the worst way to get shot is called a:

"BUCKWHEAT"

Basically you are shot through the ****** to center of body mass and left to anguish in pain until death sets in (THIS CAN LAST FOR SEVERAL HOURS). Still interested in Buckwheating, or the technique of a quality BUCKWHEATING reference the movie, THINGS TO DO IN DENVER WHEN YOUR DEAD. I must give credit where credits due to the individual who showed me this movie, but I am with holding the individuals name as he may not want to be associated with the term BUCKWHEATING or this post. But hey brother you ASKED! p-)

04-13-2005, 10:38 PM
where's the best place to get shot?

DarkCypher
04-13-2005, 10:44 PM
where's the best place to get shot?

The head.

GazB
04-15-2005, 06:34 AM
where's the best place to get shot?

While sitting inside a completely closed down M1A3 I guess... as long as the bullet is coming at you from the front of the vehicle and you have the turret front armour between you and the bullet.


P.S. GazB, in your calculations don't dispose of the gas. The gas is a major force in this thing.

Sorry I don't follow?

The gas that pushes the bullet out is the actual force that causes recoil. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The reaction to a gun firing is recoil. The action that causes that reaction (the action that causes the recoil) is the gas generated by the burning propellent and the projectile being accelerated. The force of the recoil backwards of a bolt action rifle can be calculated by the mass times the velocity of the exiting gas plus the mass and velocity of the bullet gives you the total energy unless of course there are other factors like muzzle breaks, or moving parts that reduce or spread out the recoil. (A muzzle break reduces recoil by directing some gas either sideways or backwards so that it doesn't contribute to recoil or even counters it).

Note if you based it on just the bullet muzzle velocity and mass that would ignore the force generated by the gas behind the bullet. As muzzle breaks can reduce recoil by up to about 30% then we can see that the gas does generate a signficant amount of recoil. If you just go on the size and type of powder then you are ignoring wasted energy like the energy used to create light (the flash is wasted energy but all powder generates light). It also ignores the wasted energy of the gas that rushes past the bullet as the bullet exits the muzzle.

Needless to say that the entire energy of firing a gun includes the energy of the gas and the bullet, so it must be much greater than the energy delivered to the target as the gas that escapes doesn't hit the target... only the bullet does and as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel it starts to lose energy by slowing down. The further it travels the more energy it loses.


Even if you shoot someone in the brain they can still sometimes have a reflexive motor action which might caused them to still pull the trigger or their gun if for example they are holding a hostage which might kill or wound them.


I agree that hitting in the centre of the chest is much easier than a clean head shot, but if you are trying to stop an attacker a head shot makes more sense. It evades any bodyarmour issues and even if it doesn't stop the attacker pulling a trigger it is more likely to do so than a shot to the chest.

Raistlin
04-17-2005, 03:23 AM
Nevermind, I've read the explanations again and I think you're right.

2RHPZ
04-20-2005, 05:35 AM
EDIT

pathfinder82
04-20-2005, 05:48 AM
Absolutely with out any question or doubt the worst way to get shot is called a:

"BUCKWHEAT"

Basically you are shot through the ****** to center of body mass and left to anguish in pain until death sets in (THIS CAN LAST FOR SEVERAL HOURS). Still interested in Buckwheating, or the technique of a quality BUCKWHEATING reference the movie, THINGS TO DO IN DENVER WHEN YOUR DEAD. I must give credit where credits due to the individual who showed me this movie, but I am with holding the individuals name as he may not want to be associated with the term BUCKWHEATING or this post. But hey brother you ASKED! p-)

Nice post, not to many people know about "things to do in denver when your dead", garcia is a stud in that movie.

dacanadianbomb
04-20-2005, 11:25 AM
Those pictures you posted CAg, are those dots the cause of death of the person autopsy'd or simply entry holes of bullets that were there.People were most likely shot several times, but not all were lethal.
Getting shot surely isnt a pleasant experience, regardless of where.
Its something I plan on avoiding with extreme prejudice.

DUH read the description david, says lethal wounds entry points.


http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/woundblstcs/chapter5figure187.jpg

I find the wounds to the lower legs, in the anterior view interesting, especially the one in the ankle. That a entry wound there would be lethal, is beyond me, unless a mortar hit it.
And its shows why Center of mass works, most of the entry points that kill are in the center of mass.

Raistlin
04-20-2005, 03:48 PM
Major arteries. Those buggers spray like a motherf***er if you ruprture them. Most bandages are not able to stop it - the only solution is torniquete. Without it, death in half a minute (don't quote me on exact time though).