Questions for the Israelis

[Flagg]

Questions below.......let's keep it civil people!


Israeli army told to plan for disarming settlers

15.04.05 1.00pm

JERUSALEM - Israel's defence minister ordered the army today to work out a plan to disarm settlers in enclaves slated for evacuation this summer, Defence Ministry sources said.

Settler leaders and Israeli security chiefs have agreed in principle that nobody will carry weapons during the withdrawal -- including troops -- but the fact that so many settlers are armed has raised fears of violent resistance.

Defence sources said Shaul Mofaz told top commanders to reach an agreement for an orderly handover of settlers' guns, which could be returned to them once the evacuation of the Gaza settlements and four in the West Bank was complete.

"Everything must be done to reach an understanding with the settlers about this," Mofaz was quoted as saying. "There won't be weapons of any kind in the area."

Concerns remain strong of possible bloodshed during the withdrawal, the first from settlements on land where Palestinians want a state.

But signs grew on Thursday that settlers were acknowledging evacuation as a possibility instead of refusing to consider it. The head of the Gaza settlers' council, Avner Shimoni, said settlers would still resist but appealed for communities to at least be allowed to stay together if they were evacuated.

He said they would favour a move to Nitzanim, about 20km north of the Gaza Strip in a similar landscape of sand dunes rolling down to Israel's Mediterranean coast.

"We have decided to stay, but at the same time we are making this call on the government to make sure that if they go through with the decision to exile us, we all go together to one place," he said.

The Israeli official in charge of compensating those being evacuated said last week he expected 70 per cent of settlers in Gaza and the West Bank to leave quietly. The first payment was made last week.

Polls show that most Israelis favour withdrawing the 8500 settlers from the Gaza Strip, where they live in costly-to-defend enclaves among 1.3 million Palestinians.

But many settlers see the land captured in the 1967 Middle East war as a biblical birthright. They also say withdrawal would "reward Palestinian terrorism" after more than 4-1/2 years of an armed uprising.

The United States has hailed the withdrawal plan as a good step towards reviving negotiations on a "road map" for peace.

Palestinians suspect the Gaza plan is a ruse to deprive them of much of the West Bank, where they also seek a state.

- *******

Questions for the Israelis:

Do you think the settlers will go quietly?

How are these settlers perceived by most Israelis?

Are MOST of these settlers long-term Israelis or newcomers to Israel as many I have seen interviewed on TV news appear to have US English accents?

How are militant newcomers to Israel regarded?

And finally, is there much concern that a militant settler could go and do something stupid like Yigal Amir or Baruch Goldstein did to upset the applecart or is enough cash being thrown around to "buy it away"?

[Moledet]

Questions below.......let's keep it civil people!

Questions for the Israelis:

Do you think the settlers will go quietly?

How are these settlers perceived by most Israelis?

Are MOST of these settlers long-term Israelis or newcomers to Israel as many I have seen interviewed on TV news appear to have US English accents?

How are militant newcomers to Israel regarded?

And finally, is there much concern that a militant settler could go and do something stupid like Yigal Amir or Baruch Goldstein did to upset the applecart or is enough cash being thrown around to "buy it away"?

First of all about the article, we are dealing with politicians here and as you know they like to make all kind of political spins so that later they can say that they actualy did something.
The weapons that will be taken are ONLY the weapons that the IDF gave the settlers, private weapons (handguns) won't be taken.

The settlers won't leave quietly, even the settlers that want to leave (a very small number) met with the man that is in charge of this plan to ask him question, he had no answers and told them that they'll need to wait for answers, they got so pissed that one said, "Do you want answers? Let's leave" and everybody left the meeting.
Settlers will never hurt any soldier and won't hurt anyone that doesn't try to hurt them physicaly. I guess that settlers will try to hurt the machines that the contractos will use.
Thinking that settlers will shoot on soldiers is insane, settlers are soldiers too and there were incidents where settlers were the first one to come to the help of wounded soldiers that asked for help in the radio. And that's not a simple thing to do since settlers don't have armored cars or bullet proof vests.

As you know also here we have left wing and right wing, the left wing see them as people that use the country's money for their own goal, as fanatics, blood thirsty, etc...
The right wing also has some people that see them as "leeches", some that see them as pioneers, and some that has no positive or negative oppinion.

Militants? Non of them are militants, they all served in the IDF and are part of the reserve force.

There's a concern that some people will try to use the disengagement plan for their own agenda, either Arabs or Jews.

[Uri24]

Questions for the Israelis:

Do you think the settlers will go quietly?

No way.

How are these settlers perceived by most Israelis?

While most settlers are precieved by the Israeli publics as... well "normal people with normal ideology, which isn't neccesarily right" - many of their leaders are precieved as fanatics. Obviously, there are the radical ones... who are precieved, well - as radicals.

Are MOST of these settlers long-term Israelis or newcomers to Israel as many I have seen interviewed on TV news appear to have US English accents?

Most of them are long-term Israelis. Most Israelis, when speaking English, speak with English/American accent. Or atleast, try to.

How are militant newcomers to Israel regarded?

I've never heard that question - I must say. People don't really apay any attention whether someone is a newcomer or not... atleast not on this subject.

And finally, is there much concern that a militant settler could go and do something stupid like Yigal Amir or Baruch Goldstein did to upset the applecart or is enough cash being thrown around to "buy it away"?

Heh, absolutely. It's one of the main things that the government (and media, actually) is busy with.

Moledet:
If settlers have used oil and similar liquids to try to stop IDF trucks evacuating some caravans (A truck can loose it's road-grip and go upside down. People can get killed from these things.), and not even to mention a settler who aimed a pistol at IDF soldier - then why not shooting soldiers? Perhaps there's a great difference - but it's not so great - and it can happen.

[S'13]

Do you think the settlers will go quietly?


I believe that in the Gaza Strp (regardless of what Moledet has to say on the matter ;) ) the majority of settlers will leave quietly, but there will be a core of hardliners who will try to make things harder.


How are these settlers perceived by most Israelis?

Most Israelis understand how the settlers feel... these people were encouraged by the government to settle these lands and now after years of work and building their homes, the government is telling them to leave.

There is MUCH less understanding for the fanatics among them.

Anyway, the majority of Israelis know that there is a need to evacuate the G.S and certain areas of the W.B.


Are MOST of these settlers long-term Israelis or newcomers to Israel as many I have seen interviewed on TV news appear to have US English accents?

Most are "long-term" Israelis.



And finally, is there much concern that a militant settler could go and do something stupid like Yigal Amir or Baruch Goldstein did to upset the applecart or is enough cash being thrown around to "buy it away"?

Yes, there is concern over this here in Israel.

[Moledet]

Moledet:
If settlers have used oil and similar liquids to try to stop IDF trucks evacuating some caravans (A truck can loose it's road-grip and go upside down. People can get killed from these things.), and not even to mention a settler who aimed a pistol at IDF soldier - then why not shooting soldiers? Perhaps there's a great difference - but it's not so great - and it can happen.
The only way used to hurt them will either be by putting salt in the fuel tanks or by making holes in the wheels.

I never heard of an incident where a settler aimed his pistol at an IDF soldier, I did hear of a soldier that shot near settlers' legs so the settlers took control over his weapon.

[S'13]

I never heard of an incident where a settler aimed his pistol at an IDF soldier, I did hear of a soldier that shot near settlers' legs so the settlers took control over his weapon.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3064916,00.html

[Kaplanr]

Do you think the settlers will go quietly?
On the day(s) itself, I think most will, as at Yamit. From now nntil then, the invective and demonstrations will be severe and push the envelope for a normally lawful Western society. As the others have said (with differances of perspective and opinion) many of these people were encouraged and subsidized to move to Gaza. They feel betrayed and abandoned, feelings made all the more painful because of who (Arik Sharon) is promoting the steps. Had it been the Barak government, the resignation would be fatalistic. But in the end, I believe it will happen.

How are these settlers perceived by most Israelis?
Again to echo the others, most are seen as "regular" people. As opposed to the West Bank settlers, almost all the remaining Gaza mitnahalim are more religious than the Israeli population as a whole. While many in the West Bank are also religious, there are substantial numbers who moved across the Green Line because it made financial sense to do so, and the quality of life was markedly better. There are also thse settlers who were / are entirely driven by ideology and religious fervor. Like any Israeli army unit, mine ran the gamut from left-wing to residents of Ariel and Gush Etzion (religious), and even they thought the people at places like Tekoa were a little overboard in their thinking. There are a handful who might be equivalent to messianic Christians and the average Israeli doesn't relate to those types.

Are MOST of these settlers long-term Israelis or newcomers to Israel as many I have seen interviewed on TV news appear to have US English accents?
Most are Israelis, with a strong and vocal element of largely religious Americans. They're on the news because it's better coverage - more balck and white. If you get an Israeli who sounds like Ehud Barak or even Ariel Sharon - that holds your attention and may border on the "exotic" Get one who sound like (because he is) from Brooklyn or Queens (New York boroughs) and no one relates to them, especially opposite the Palestinan villager with the accent and legitimate complaints.
Psychologically, you hear the ex-New Yorker with the extreme views and you can't help but think: "Why is he there, he has a home," becuase it's articulated and reinforced by his/her accent.

How are militant newcomers to Israel regarded?
Immigrating to Israel, at least in my case, was bureacratic non-event. I signed some pares, got a temporary ID, and was on my way in a taxi to my kibbutz in about 30 minutes. Unless you're arriving with a sign on you, or have a police record that's been forwarded to the Israel Police, no one will know. As a rule, most Israelis didn't relate well, or sympatehtically to the initial Kahane supporting group of immigrants. The problem is, 20 years on, the movement as such is Israeli. It still doesn't garner much sympathy, but it isn't a foreign or imported phenomena anymore. The late President Herzog lamented the Kahane movement and its supporters as the worst in North American contributions to Israel.

And finally, is there much concern that a militant settler could go and do something stupid like Yigal Amir or Baruch Goldstein did to upset the applecart or is enough cash being thrown around to "buy it away"?
I think the worry is ever-present, though I don't think anyone is buying off anyone with the packages that will be offered. It comes down to convincing people that this is in the best long-term interests of the State.

This might be heresy, but I think Sharon is trading Gaza for most of the West Bank. I might be wrong but I can't believe he's undergone such a complete ideological conversion as to a return to the largely June 67 borders. Maybe.

Just my agora's worth.

[Uri24]

I never heard of an incident where a settler aimed his pistol at an IDF soldier, I did hear of a soldier that shot near settlers' legs so the settlers took control over his weapon.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3064916,00.html

For specific details about the "incident" I was refering to:
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART/879/290.html

[Flagg]

Thanks for the feedback guys....any other opinions on the matter are appreciated as well.

Hey look! No flames yet! It's a miracle! :lol:

[Moledet]

As for your last question, there's another oppinion about it that says that since many of the soldiers in high military ranks are religious they might listen to their rabbies and create a military revolution. But I guess this script has the lowest probability.

For the others, I know about Yitzahar, there are some idiots there that treats the soldiers realy bad, but i'm sure they didn't get any weapons from the IDF which makes Mofaz's decission idiotic since it hurts the good guys.

[Uri24]

As for your last question, there's another oppinion about it that says that since many of the soldiers in high military ranks are religious they might listen to their rabbies and create a military revolution. But I guess this script has the lowest probability.

IMHO, most of those speculations about military-revolution seem to me more like some left-wing propaganda, rather than something that might actually happen.

For the others, I know about Yitzahar, there are some idiots there that treats the soldiers realy bad, but i'm sure they didn't get any weapons from the IDF which makes Mofaz's decission idiotic since it hurts the good guys.

Regardless of whether Mofaz' decision was right or wrong - the danger that radical settlers will open fire on soldiers is there, even if the probablity is quite low.

[Clarsachier]

What about the 'Roadmap'? Any chance Sharon will concede to Bush's request to cancel the expansion in West Bank?

[Moledet]

What about the 'Roadmap'? Any chance Sharon will concede to Bush's request to cancel the expansion in West Bank?
It doesn't matter, this year we'll build over 6,000 new homes in the west bank and will turn 120 settlements to liegal settlements.