View Full Version : Srebrenica
Srebrenica, a small town in Yugoslavia:
Five years on and the
lies continue
By Jared Israel [29 July 2000]
[Following is the text of a full-page ad written by Jared Israel that appeared in the 'Daily Telegraph' in Sydney, Australia, 20 July, 2000 and the 'New York Post,' 28 July 2000.]
What really happened in Srebrenica?
When the Bosnian Serb Army recaptured the town of Srebrenica five years ago, Dutch UN peacekeepers were the only Western observers present. The Dutch UN peacekeepers ridicule Clinton Administration claims that Serbian troops massacred thousands of disarmed Muslims:
"Everybody is parroting everybody [about Srebrenica] but nobody shows hard evidence. In the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed. I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac [alleged massacre site] and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped."
(Captain Schouten, the ranking UN officer on the scene in Bratunac, Het Parool, 27/07/95, my emphasis)
The Myth:
Led by the Clinton administration, the Western media has used the Myth of Srebrenica to slander the Serbian people for five years.
The idea is: repeat a lie enough times and people will believe it.
But what really happened at Srebrenica? What happened there before the Serbian army recaptured the city?
As we will see, there was a massacre, in fact there were many massacres, but the Serbs were not the villains. They were the victims.
Islamist terrorists, based in Srebrenica, raided local villages, mutilating and murdering Serbian and moderate Muslim villagers. Innocent civilians. It's a miracle that when the Serbs retook Srebrenica they did not exact revenge.
ISLAMIST LEADER BOASTS OF MURDER
The UN declared Srebrenica a 'safe zone' in 1993. That meant:
a) Srebrenica was supposed to be disarmed and
b) it was supposed to be safe from attack
But the UN never disarmed the Islamists who occupied Srebrenica.
The Islamists "troops" were actually a gang of sadists in the tradition of the local Islamists who joined the Nazi SS during World War II and slaughtered Serbs, "Gypsies" and Jews. Listen to their modern-day incarnation, Commander Nasir Oric, leader of what is called the Bosnian Muslim Army, in Srebrenica:
"[On the video tape I saw] burning houses, dead bodies, severed heads, and people fleeing. [Commander] Oric grinned throughout, admiring his handiwork. 'We ambushed them,' he said when a number of dead Serbs appeared on the screen.
"The next sequence of dead bodies had been done in by explosives: 'We launched those guys to the moon,' he boasted. When footage of a bullet-marked ghost town appeared without any visible bodies, Oric hastened to announce: 'We killed 114 Serbs there.' Later there were celebrations, with singers with wobbly voices chanting his praises."
(Emphasis added, 'Toronto Star,' 16/07/95)
Note that Oric says his "troops" mutilated and slaughtered innocent villagers, not Serbian troops. In World War II the Nazi Islamists killed by mutilation, using so-called "cold weapons" - knives, hammers, axes. They liked to be photographed with what they called "trophies" - the severed heads of their victims. That was the Nazi past, right? Well, here again is Nasir Oric, Commander of the terrorists, otherwise known as the Bosnian Muslim Army, in Srebrenica:
"Nasir Oric's war trophies don't line the wall of his comfortable apartment. They're on videocassette tape: burned Serb houses and headless Serb men, bodies crumpled in a pathetic heap.
'"We had to use cold weapons that night,' Oric explains as scenes of dead men sliced by knives roll over his 21-inch Sony...Reclining on an overstuffed couch, clothed head to toe in camouflage fatigues, a U.S. Army patch proudly displayed over his heart…the Muslim commander is the toughest guy in this town [of Srebrenica], which the U.N. Security Council has declared a protected 'safe area.'"
(Emphasis added, Washington Post, 16/02/94)
The Clinton administration strongly supported the Muslim regime in Sarajevo. Oric's killers were that regime's army. Is this why Oric wore a US army patch? Note that the Post expresses no horror over Oric's unbelievable crimes.
Oric worked for the Muslim regime in Sarajevo. The Clinton administration praised that regime as pro-Western and tolerant.
Well,. the head of that regime was and is Alija Izetbegovic. He joined the pro-Nazi Young Muslims in nazi-occupied Sarajevo in 1943. He helped recruit members of the "SS Handzar Division." He worked with Hitler’s intelligence service (ABWER and GESTAPO). In 1946 he was sentenced by the Yugoslav Military Court to three years in prison for his fascist activities. (1)
Jumping forward to 1990, here's a quote from Izetbegovic's book, "Islamic Declaration:"
"...There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non-Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf…and the state should be an expression …of the religion. ..." (Emphasis added, 'Islamska Deklaracija,' p. 22)
Izetbegovic idolized the Ayatollah Khomeini. His fanatic Islamist movement lost the 1990 elections to Fikret Abdic. Abdic was a moderate Muslim. But the Bush and Clinton administrations backed Izetbegovic who forced Abdic out. Abdic and his moderate Muslim followers allied with the Bosnian Serb Army against Izetbegovic's Islamist fanatics.
Why has the Clinton government backed these Islamist fascists? As we will see later, Clinton is supporting the same sort of sadist butchers in Kosovo today - in fact, in Kosovo these killers have been given official jobs with the UN. More on that in a moment.
THE MYTH OF THE 7000 MISSING MUSLIMS
By 1995 Oric's murderous raids forced the Bosnian Serb Army to send some of its limited number of troops to retake Srebrenica. Unfortunately, Oric and most of the terrorist thugs escaped. Today Oric is free as a bird, running a disco in the town of Tuzla.
As the Serbs entered Srebrenica, the terrorists retreated into the forest, heading for Islamist-dominated Tuzla. Firefights raged all night. 2,000 terrorists were killed. US Ambassador to the UN Richard Holbrooke clams up to 8000 Muslims were executed, but there is overwhelming evidence that in fact they got away. The Sarajevo regime has helped spread the lie that they were killed by the Serbs in order to demonize the Serbian people.
[Thousands of the] "missing Bosnian Muslim soldiers from Srebrenica who have been at the centre of reports of possible mass executions by the Serbs, are believed to be safe to the Northeast of Tuzla.....
"For the first time yesterday, however, the Red Cross in Geneva said it heard from sources in Bosnia that up to 2,000 Bosnian Government troops were in area north of Tuzla. They had made their way from Srebrenica 'without their families being informed', a spokesman said, adding that it had not been possible to verify the reports because the [Islamist] Bosnian Government refused to allow the Red Cross into the area."
(Emphasis added, 'The Times,' 02/8/95)
WHY HAVEN'T THE BODIES BEEN IDENTIFIED?
We often hear that:
"Some 4,000 bodies have been found so far in the vicinity of Srebrenica, but only 70 have been identified." (Emphasis added, 'Agence France Presse' ('AFP'), 10/7/00)
According to the Sunday Mail: 'After five years we have found 160 mass graves, but we have no idea who the people are."
The grave sites that NATO has dug up are mostly
a) near battlefields or
b) near the towns attacked by Nasir Oric's serial killers.
The Clinton administration admits that "we have no idea who the people [in these graves] are."
But we do know that Oric's Islamist terrorists killed thousands of Serbian villagers. Doesn't it make sense that the bodies NATO has dug up are
A) victims of the Islamist terrorists,
B) soldiers who fought the Islamists,
C) Islamist terrorists killed in fighting?
HOLBROOKE INSULTS HOLOCAUST VICTIMS
Richard Holbrooke, US Ambassador to the UN, recently reopened the Myth of Srebrenica, attacking the Serbs. Said Holbrooke:
"Srebrenica must not be forgotten " ('AFP,' 7-11-00)
The phrase "Never forget!" is associated with victims of Nazi terror in World War II, especially Jews killed in the Holocaust.
How dare Holbrooke invoke the Holocaust in order to slander the Serbs? The Serbs died alongside their Jewish (and Roma, or 'Gypsy') neighbors at the hands of Islamist Nazis during World War II.
In the 1990s they were killed by NATO-backed Nazis like Izetbegovic and Oric in Bosnia and the KLA in Kosovo.
'Srebrenica'– Code Word to Silence Critics of US Policy in the Balkans
by Stella L. Jatras
Special to Antiwar.com
7/31/00
The Bosnian Serb military stands accused of committing some of the worst human rights crimes since World War II during and following the battle for Srebrenica in 1995. HOLOCAUST! GENOCIDE! ETHNIC CLEANSING! Claims of 7,000 (or 8,000, or 10,000, or whatever figure is needed to elicit the desired response) Muslim men and boys slaughtered and Dutch troops accused of failing to stop the slaughter! Five years later the allegations not only persist, but are accepted as fact by a compliant and unquestioning media. Yet in five years fewer than 2000 bodies have been discovered in an area where war raged for four years and even those bodies have not been identified as Muslim or Serb, and it has not been determined how they died.
Why then has there been a flurry of articles in recent days regarding the alleged massacre of thousands of Bosnian Muslim fighters that occurred over five years ago? Articles such as, "Holbrooke Mourns Srebrenica, urges Reconciliation," (*******, 11 July); "Five Years Later: The Battle of Srebrenica Is Now Over the Truth," by David Rohde (New York Times, 9 July) and "Harrowing pilgrimage for Srebrenica Muslims," by Rory Carroll (Guardian [London] 12 July), are all spewing their anti-Serb bias.
The Code word is "Srebrenica." Srebrenica equates to holocaust. Srebrenica equates to genocide. Srebrenica equates to ethnic cleansing. And because claims of mass graves and genocide in Kosovo are being discredited, what better way to continue to demonize the Serbs than for the American people to be reminded of Srebrenica? After all, there is still the unfinished business of dismembering Yugoslavia by amputating Montenegro, Sanjak and Vojvodina. The New World Order beast will not be satisfied until its belly is full and that requires the American people to accept NATO's next intervention in the Balkans; however, the American people must again be prepared mentally to accept more military action just as they accepted 78 days of dropping bombs on an innocent people. They have to be conditioned to say once again, "After all, the Serbs deserve it!"
During his visit to Washington, D.C. to attend a Congressional briefing in the office of Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio on 19 July, I had a chance to speak with former Canadian Ambassador to Yugoslavia, James Bissett, who has been openly critical of his country's participation in the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. Last year, he received a phone call from three Dutch military historians who wanted to meet with him to talk about Srebrenica. Ambassador Bissett informed them that he had not been at Srebrenica and could not, therefore, speak as an eyewitness on the subject. However, because of his broad knowledge of the area and the circumstances of the Bosnian War, the Dutch historians still wanted to meet with him. Among other topics, they spoke about Nasir Oric, the dreaded Muslim commander in Srebrenica who had mounted commando raids against surrounding Serbian villages whose remaining population were mainly elderly Serbs, many in their 80s, who refused to leave their homes. Even these poor souls were not spared, but were slaughtered by having their throats slit. Bill Schiller wrote of Oric in the Toronto Star, 16 July 1995, "On a cold and snowy night, I sat in his living room watching a shocking video version of what might had been called Nasir Oric's Greatest Hits. There were burning houses, dead bodies, severed heads, and people fleeing. Oric grinned throughout admiring his handiwork. 'We ambushed them,' he said when a number of dead Serbs appeared on the screen. The next sequence of dead bodies had been done in by explosives: 'We launched those guys to the moon,' he boasted. When a footage of a bullet-marked ghost town appeared without any visible bodies, Oric hastened to announce: 'We killed 114 Serbs there.' Later there were celebrations, with singers with wobbly voices chanting his praises."
The three Dutch military historians and Ambassador Bissett recalled that Serbian General Radko Mladic has protested the misuse of the so-called "safe haven" of Srebrenica by Oric and warned that continued attacks on surrounding villages would bring a response from the Serbian forces. Forewarned, Oric had pulled his armed troops, including Mujahedin soldiers who had been imported from many of the Islamic countries, out of Srebrenica three days before the final push began. According to the Ambassador, when Serbian General Mladic entered Srebrenica, he entered a city that was mostly devoid of its fighting men. Accused of attacking a "safe haven" by the media and Muslim propaganda, the Serbs were even vilified for putting refugees, mostly women and children, from Srebrenica on buses and sending them to Muslim-held territory. The tragic scenes of the refugees were shown over and over again on TV; yet within a few days, the refugees were seen eating fruit, smoking cigarettes, washing clothes and being housed – thanks to the UN. The Bosnian government refused to provide humanitarian assistance for its own people, preferring that the world see a suffering Muslim population as part of their propaganda ploy.
Tim Butcher of the Daily Telegraph, London (24 July 1995), wrote regarding Srebrenica, "After five days of interviews the United Nations chief investigator into alleged human rights abuses during the fall of Srebrenica has not found any firsthand witnesses of atrocities."
An International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) report, document #37, dated September 13, 1995 states: "Approximately 5,000 Srebrenica Muslim troops left the enclave prior to its fall. The Muslim government has admitted that these men were reassigned to other units of its armed forces. The fact that family members were not informed of it was justified by the obligation to keep it a military secret." The ICRC further reported that there were indications that sporadic clashes broke out between the Muslim soldiers who wanted to stay and fight and other soldiers and civilians who wanted to flee. In some cases, the names of "missing" soldiers are listed as many as two and three times. As previously stated, approximately fewer than 2,000 bodies have been found in graves. Considering that the civil war in Bosnia had lasted over four years, this could not exactly be called a "genocide" when compared to other massacres taking place all over the world such as in Sierra Leone, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, and the Indonesia.
A representative in the Bosnian and Federal Parliaments, Ibran Mustafic, gave an explosive interview on Aug. 15, 1996, to Slobodna Bosnia ("Free Bosnia," A Sarajevo newspaper). Mustafic was quoted as saying that the betrayal of Srebrenica "was consciously prepared and that the Bosnian president and the army command were involved in this business," and that was to sacrifice Srebrenica in order to gain the sympathy of the West. Of his internment in a Serbian jail, he writes, "I should have died. They [the Bosnian Muslim authorities] don't appreciate living people. They appreciate the dead because they cannot talk."
Of course we must not overlook Pulitzer Prize winner David Rohde, who was given a 15-day sentence for entering into Serbian territory with forged documents. He should thank his lucky stars that he was not captured by Muslim fighters or he would have been just another dead journalist, as was ABC's producer David Kaplan, who, according to Yossef Bodansky (Offensive in the Balkans) was out of range of Serbian forces when he was killed. Regardless, Kaplan's death was blamed on the Serbs. And what earned Mr. Rohde his coveted award? It was based merely on the discovery of "a pair of glasses, a walking stick and a putrefying leg sticking out of the ground," according to his book, Endgame: The Betrayal and Fall of Srebrenica, in an area where men had fought for over three years. Some genocide!
The mind set of U.S. officials who were in charge of "peacekeeping" efforts might best be understood by considering the view of our current U.N. Ambassador, Richard Holbrooke, who spoke of "The 1995 massacre of thousands of Bosnians Moslems in the U.N.-proclaimed 'safe area' of Srebrenica." ("Holbrooke mourns Srebrenica, urges reconciliation", *******, July 11). Mr. Holbrooke fails to mention that the so-called "safe area," which was supposed to be demilitarized, was used by the Bosnian Muslims as a staging area to attack surrounding Serbian villages.
The same diplomat, Mr. Holbrooke, said during an interview with Ted Koppel on November 6, 1995 (New Yorker), "The Vietcong were dedicated ideologues, committed to a long-term struggle. These guys [the Serbs] aren't ideologues; they're just murderous assholes." [Those are not my offensive words, but the words coming from the bigoted and racist mouth of our well-seasoned US diplomat who represents us at the UN!). Mr. Holbrooke praised the communist Vietcong, who killed over 58,000 Americans and denigrated the brave Serbian people who fought, suffered and sacrificed as our Allies during two world wars.
Yasushi Akashi, former UN Representative in Bosnia, admitted in the Washington Times of 1 November 1995, that "it is a fact that the Bosnian government forces have used the 'safe areas' of not only Srebrenica, but Sarajevo, Tuzla, Bihac, Gorazde for training, recuperation and refurbishing their troops." In other words, the so-called safe areas were used as military posts to train Mujahedin fighters from Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Turkey and the entire Islamic world, free to commit their treachery by attacking Serbian villages and returning like thieves in the night back to the safety of their UN protectors who conveniently looked the other way to these violations. Prior to the events at Srebrenica, these "Holy Warriors of Islam" had attacked 42 surrounding Serbian villages and over 3,000 Serbian villagers had been slaughtered without fear of being reprimanded or punished by the UN Yet, when Serbs were provoked to retaliate against these Muslim assaults from these so-called "safe-areas," they were condemned by the entire world.
Further proof of the violations of proclaimed "safe areas" by Bosnian Muslim forces was provided by Lt. Gen. Sir Michael Rose, former UNPROFOR commander who stated that Muslims "shoot on the Serbs to step up the pressure and to obtain a fresh intervention from NATO."
Yossef Bodansky, Staff Director for the Republican Task Force on Terrorism & Unconventional Warfare, US House of Representatives, writes in his book, "Offensive in the Balkans" that "The UN concluded that a special group of Bosnian Muslim forces, many of whom had served with Islamic terrorist organizations, committed a series of atrocities, including 'some of the worst recent killings,' against Bosnian Muslim civilians in Sarajevo [another designated "safe area"] as a propaganda ploy to win world sympathy and military intervention. These attacks escalated into premeditated attacks and atrocities committed against Bosnian Serb civilians trying to flee contested areas." Furthermore, Michael Evans and Michael Kallenbach write in the Times (1995), "Thousands of 'missing' Bosnian Muslim soldiers from Srebrenica who have been at the centre of reports of possible mass executions by the Serbs, are believed to be safe in the northeast of Tuzla." The question that no one seemed to ask was what were armed Muslim troops doing in an area that was supposed to be a demilitarized zone. Instead, the American media bombarded us with images of then US Ambassador to the United Nations, Madeleine Albright in August 1995, as she frantically waved the satellite photo over her head of the plowed field that was the alleged mass grave of 7,000 Muslim men. Proof positive! she claimed, of those who had been slaughtered and whose bodies were lying there only waiting to be exhumed.
While the world's attention was deliberately focused on Srebrenica by such theatrical antics by Madeleine Albright, real ethnic cleansing of Serbs was taking place in the Krajina where, in August of 1995, over 250,000 were being driven from their ancestral homes, thousands slaughtered, and those too old or infirm to flee, remained only to have their throats slit. Approximately 650,000 Serbs have been driven out of Croatia since 1992 with little prospect of ever returning. It was US military aid and technology that made it possible for Croatian forces to conduct "Operation Storm" in order to achieve their goal of a pure Croatian state that Hitler could only promise. There was no outrage from Congress when Croatian jets bombed and strafed Serbian refugee columns. No outrage to what Charles Krauthammer described in Newsweek (April 5, 1999) as "the largest ethnic cleansing of the entire Balkan wars. Investigators with the war-crimes tribunal in the Hague have concluded that this campaign was carried out with brutality, wanton murder and indiscriminate shelling of civilians.... No denunciation. No sanctions. No bombing. No indignant speeches about ethnic cleansing and the slaughter of innocents. In fact, in justifying the current bombing of Serbia, Clinton made an indirect reference to this Croatian campaign when he credited the 'courageous people in Bosnia and in Croatia' who 'fought back' against the Serbs and 'helped to end the war.' Indeed, they did. Croatia's savage ethnic cleansing so demoralized the Serbs that they soon agreed to sign the Dayton peace accord of 1995." But where were the media when all this was happening?
"As the media diverted themselves with satellite photos, the fate of the Serbs from Krajina is being forgotten. The search for mass graves was stepped up last autumn. Journalists from all over the world came to Bosnia to look for bodies. Crews from CNN, CBS, BBC, France II, TG1 (Italy), Dutch Television and from elsewhere arrived in August 1996. But they found very little. Some crews did not bother at all to find the soccer field from the satellite photo, because the journalists had already come to believe that there was no mass grave there anyway. However, it was not reported. Moreover, the said photo is being used as alleged evidence of the existence of a mass grave in many articles even today." ("Missing Evidence," by Linda Ryan, Nova, Frankfurt o/m, March-April, 1996).
So why, after five years of unsuccessful efforts to turn the casualties of a tragic civil war, one less bloody than numerous conflicts around the world, into claims of holocaust and genocide, is the specter of Srebrenica being raised again? The answer is that this is an attempt to intimidate and silence the "revisionists" who are questioning our failed foreign policy in the Balkans, a policy based on lies about atrocities in Bosnia and Kosovo and executed in violations of international law, the NATO treaty and the US Constitution.
As a career military officer's wife, Stella Jatras has traveled widely and has lived in many foreign countries where she not only learned about other cultures but became very knowledgeable regarding world affairs and world politics. Stella Jatras lived in Moscow for two years where her husband, George, was the Senior Air Attaché), and while there, worked in the Political Section of the US Embassy. Stella has also lived in Germany, Greece and Saudi Arabia. Her travels took her to over twenty countries. She is the author of the "Open Letter to General Michael Short," which antiwar.com carried on 11/3/99, and "From Camp Swampy to Camp Bondsteel!" on 4/6/00.
For example, Johnstone discusses the work of Nasir Oric, a man not featured by Rieff, the media, or the Tribunal. Arkan is a more familiar name—a Serb paramilitary leader, eventually indicted by the Tribunal. Nasir Oric was a Bosnian Muslim officer operating out of Srebrenica, from which “safe haven” Oric ventured out to attack nearby Serb villages, burning homes and killing over 1,000 Serbs between May 1992 and January 1994. Oric even invited Western reporters to his apartment to see his “war trophies”: videocassettes showing cut-off Serb heads, burnt houses, and piles of corpses.
You thought that Srebrenica was a “safe haven” only for civilians and that it could hardly be a UN cover for Bosnian Muslim military operations? You were misinformed (Johnstone, 110). You hadn’t heard of the 1992 pushing out of Serbs from Srebrenica and the multiyear attacks on nearby Serb towns and massacres that preceded the Srebrenica massacre? That is because it has been an absolute rule of Rieff et al./media reporting on the Bosnian conflict to present evidence of Serb violence in vacuo, suppressing evidence of prior violence against Serbs, thereby falsely suggesting that Serbs were never responding, but only initiating violence (this applies to Vukovar, Mostar, Gorazde, and many other towns). It also justifies the claim that Serb actions, supposedly never motivated by a desire for revenge, are genocidal in intent.
You hadn’t heard of Nasir Oric and can’t understand why he has never been indicted by the Tribunal for doing the same sort of thing as Arkan, but perhaps on a somewhat larger scale. It is not puzzling at all if you realize that the “phalanx” I mentioned above, which includes Rieff et al., the media, and the Tribunal, also includes the NATO powers and is serving their ends, which did not include justice.
Johnstone provides many examples of how the phalanx twisted facts for political ends, including an extensive and compelling analysis of the various non-proofs of “systematic rape” as Serb policy (1978-1990). But the choicest morsel showing how the propaganda system works was the Nazi-style “death camp” with its picture of the “thin man” Fikret Alic behind barbed wire. As Johnstone notes, the Bosnian Muslims and Croatians also had prison camps during the Bosnian wars, but Karadzic, the “indicted war criminal,” was not as smart as they were—he allowed the Western media to visit his camps.
It is now well established as truth, if not permitted to surface in the mainstream media, that: (1) the thin man was not behind barbed wire—the barbed wire was around a small unused compound from which the photographers from Britain’s Independent Television Network took their pictures; (2) he was not even in a prison camp, let alone a death camp, but was in transit through a refugee center, on his way to exile in Scandinavia; (3) the thinness of Fikret Alic was not typical of people in the camp, but was highlighted to fit the “Auschwitz” image.
Neverthless, “in August 1992, the ‘thin man behind barbed wire’ photos made the tour of the front pages of virtually every tabloid newspaper in the Western world and appeared on the cover of Time, Newsweek, and other mass circulation magazines.” The U.S. proposal for a war crimes tribunal followed in the same month with widespread claims that the “thin man” photo proved Serb genocidal intent. This was only one of many frauds based on disinformation, but it was a major one, helping make the Serbs-as-Nazis a given for the phalanx and much of the Western public.
http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Feb2003/herman0203.html
Electronic Telegraph
International News
Thursday July 11 1996 Issue 425
Besieged enclave was ruled by law of jungle
By Tim Butcher, Defence Correspondent
IT WAS not just the besieging Serbs who threatened the
lives of the 40,000 Muslims crammed for three years into
the Srebrenica enclave.
> They also had to deal with an enemy within, as a breakdown
> of law and order created Muslim warlords not afraid of
> exploiting their own people. While most reports about
> Srebrenica have focused on the pocket's collapse and the
> maltreatment of its inhabitants by the attacking Bosnian
> Serbs, there is a parallel story of social degradation
> inside the enclave.
>
> Srebrenica's established structure of municipal authority
> broke down and was replaced by a primitive law of the
> jungle where ruthlessness won out. Men who before the war
> were petty criminals and hoodlums rose to positions of
> huge authority, engaging in murder and black marketeering
> and organising prostitution. They even stockpiled
> humanitarian aid sent to the pocket and sold it for
> profit.
>
> "War is war, but in Srebrenica there were no rules at all,
> just the law of a few private individuals," Ibran
> Mustafic, a member of Srebrenica's mayoral council, said.
> At the centre of the accusations of profiteering is the
> complex figure of Naser Oric, 29, who learnt his military
> skills when he was trained in the 1980s as a bodyguard for
> President Milosevic of Serbia.
>
> Mr Oric has been feted by the Bosnian government in
> Sarajevo as a war hero and credited with masterminding the
> defence of Srebrenica from 1992 until it was declared a
> United Nations safe area in April 1993. But for many
> Srebrenica refugees Mr Oric is a hated figure accused of
> making money out of the misery of others. One refugee
> said: "Oric just saw his chance and took it. When
> everything collapsed in Srebrenica he made the best of his
> opportunity, but he was not so much respected in the town
> as feared."
>
> One of the most mysterious aspects of Srebenica's fall is
> that Mr Oric and his senior commanders were not in the
> pocket when it was attacked by the Serbs last July
>
> Srebrenica women claimed Mr Oric's men organised
> prostitution using young Muslim girls who had fled their
> homes in nearby villages during the Serb ethnic cleansing
> of 1992. Mr Mustafic said 24 inhabitants of Srebrenica
> were murdered by Mr Oric's men for opposing his style of
> leadership.
>
> Mr Mustafic's face is scarred and his left eye disfigured
> after he was shot by Mr Oric's men inside the Srebrenica
> pocket on a dark night in May 1995. He had a reputation as
> a troublemaker for the public criticism he voiced against
> Mr Oric for running a system whereby starving Srebrenicans
> were charged huge amounts for food delivered by the UN.
>
> Gunmen attacked him on May 19, 1995, as he walked home
> from a meeting. He was hit twice in the legs, once in the
> neck and once in the face, but was luckier than his
> colleague, Hamed Salihovic, who died in the same attack.
> Mr Mustafic claimed that Srebrenica residents knew of
> deals made by Mr Oric's men with the besieging Serbs for
> fuel, food and arms.
>
> One of the most mysterious aspects of Srebenica's fall is
> that Mr Oric and his senior commanders were not in the
> pocket when it was attacked by the Serbs last July. They
> had left in March on one of the regular night helicopter
> flights arranged from government-controlled territory near
> Tuzla. More of Mr Oric's senior command left on foot in
> early summer, leading many Srebrenicans to believe they
> had cut a deal with the besieging Serbs.
>
> One year after the pocket fell Mr Oric can be found living
> the life of the Balkan playboy. He lives in Tuzla and
> spends most of his summer days swimming at the large
> Modracko lake near Lukavac before regular sessions in
> Tuzla's most ostentatious nightclub and casino. Under 6ft
> tall but with the squat, muscular physique of a pit bull,
> he exudes menacing authority with eyes as lifeless as a
> white shark's.
>
> Mr Oric does not so much deny the allegations made against
> him as flatly refuse to discuss them. With a wave of his
> muscular arm and guffaws from his adoring followers, he
> dismisses strangers curtly. For a former bodyguard he has
> done surprisingly well for himself, driving a new Mercedes
> and wearing designer sports clothes with extravagant
> jewellery.
>
> While many Muslims blame Mr Oric for the breakdown of law
> inside the Srebrenica pocket, he is also accused by the
> Bosnian Serbs of being a war criminal who organised
> attacks on Serb civilians near Srebrenica throughout the
> war. For Veselen Sarac, a Bosnian Serb now living in
> Milici, there is little doubt that Mr Oric is a criminal.
> More than a dozen white flecks of scar tissue on his arms
> are all the proof Mr Sarac needs for what sort of man Mr
> Oric became in the war.
>
> "When Oric tortured me he stubbed cigarettes out on my
> arms and this is what made the marks," he said. "One day
> he punched me in the face and my eye swelled like an
> apple."
Still More Evidence -
Was the Srebrenica 'Massacre' a Hoax?
By René Grémaux and Abe de Vries
Introduction:
The Answer Is, 'Yes!'
by Jared Israel (4-28-00)
"Everybody is parroting everybody, but nobody shows hard evidence. I notice that in the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed. (...) If executions have taken place, the Serbs have been hiding it damn well. Thus, I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped." (Captain Schouten quoted below. Captain Schouten was the only UN military officer in Bratunac at the time the alleged bloodbath called Srebrenica was supposed to have taken place.)
Srebrenica. The name accuses: massacre. 7000 dead. 8000 dead.
But did it happen?
General R. Krstic, commander of the Bosnian Serb troops who took Srebrenica in July 1995 has been seized by NATO, put on trail for war crimes.
Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic and Commanding General Mladic are indicted, hunted, trashed as criminals in the media. Virtually the entire Bosnian Serb leadership is under threat of arrest for Srebrenica.
But did it happen?
Srebrenica is NATO's remedy; it compensates all sins. Did the Croatian Army drive 200,000 Serbs from the Krajina section of Yugoslavia? Were they trained, led and given air cover by US forces? Perhaps, but what about Srebrenica?
Didn't the Serbs deserve it?
By telling and retelling the story of Srebrenica over the past four and a half years the media has been able to portray the Bosnian Islamist fighters as victims and therefore humane.
Naser Oric was the Islamist Commander at Srebrenica. This gentleman met with journalists, showed them videos of the bodies of Serbian civilians decapitated by his troops during raids on nearby villages. Oric's boasts had a purpose: to instill terror. During World War II, pro-Nazi Islamist and Croatian Ustashe forces slaughtered Serbian peasants. Every Serbian family lost people. Every Serbian family remembers. By carrying out such terror in the '90s, and boasting of it, the Islamist forces were waging a psychological war. The message to Serbs was: 'We're back. Flee or die.'
But what about the Serbs? Did they respond in kind?
The following article, though very definitely not 'pro-Serb' (as you shall see, the writers assume there must be some truth to the charges) nevertheless presents strong evidence that:
1) The Islamist forces in Srebrenica employed vicious terror against Serbian civilians;
2) The supposed eyewitness reports of Serbian revenge killings at Srebrenica which have been much trumpeted by the mass media, are thoroughly contradictory. Not only do different witnesses give contradictory accounts but witnesses tell contradictory stories to different reporters;
3) There is no hard evidence that a massacre actually took place;
4) The western media has reported inconsistent and contradictory anti-Serb rumors as if they are all the Gospel truth;
5) Serbian observers have been falsely quoted as admitting the massacre took place;
6) And perhaps most important, Dutch military officers - that is, the UN officers who were on the scene when the Serbs took Srebrenica in 1995 - report there was no massacre.
In our opinion, the article below sometimes errs by seeming to accept the Western media line that a massacre definitely happened at Srebrenica. The authors do this in small ways, sometimes in the way they phrase things, sometimes in actual statements. It is a minor blemish, for the facts presented overwhelmingly contradict official massacre claims. Yet these little blemishes have an affect; on a few occasions we have taken the liberty of commenting. Our comments appear in brackets {like this}.
Here's the article:
The Construction of a trauma
By René Grémaux and Abe de Vries
Translated by 'Targets,' the Dutch independent Website and newspaper (Subscription info at end of article)
Edited by Jared Israel and Nebojsa Malic
Originally published in 'De Groene Amsterdammer', 13/3/96.
"Horrible slaughter and large numbers of missing people. That is what we think about in the Netherlands when Srebrenica is mentioned.... But were the Muslims really victims of the Serbs on such a large scale? And more important: were they so innocent themselves?"
LIEUTENANT COLONEL Karremans, the man who terribly irritated Dutch politicians, has been promoted to the rank of colonel.
"The Muslims burned 192 villages in Eastern Bosnia," he declared guilelessly at a poorly prepared press-conference in Zagreb. "Therefore I am saying that in this war there are no ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’." (Dutch UN officer Karremans)
Pure Serb propaganda, was the verdict of the press as well as The Hague establishment. Karremans’ admiration of the military genius of Ratko Mladic – the Bosnian-Serb commander indicted for war crimes – was also objected to, not to mention their alcoholic encounter, cleverly filmed and broadcast by TV Pale [in Bosnia].
If we are to believe Secretaries of State ****k and Voorhoeve, genocide took place. Supposedly as the Serbs drove into the city, DUTCHBAT [the Dutch Battalion] couldn’t do much more than watch impotently...
Thus Srebrenica became the symbol of our national shame. "Our boys" had given in to Mladic’s cut-throats and thus became accomplice to the cruelest European bloodbath since the Second World War.
This is the dominant picture. But it is not the only view, nor is it complete. This becomes clear when examining conversations with experts and Serbian refugees, as well as making a detailed comparison of various reports and newspaper articles. All claims considered, how many Muslims really are missing? How reliable are eyewitness reports of mass executions? What is true about the rumors that some Muslim factions fought each other? And did Muslims destroy all those Serb villages and kill the inhabitants [before Serb troops retook the city] or did they not?
A Serbian Cameraman Denies Seeing Any Crime
BELGRADE, A CHILLY evening in January.
Serb cameraman and journalist Zoran Petrovic-Pirocanac is angry. He is considering legal measures now that his work is regarded as a piece of evidence concerning mass murder. The German weekly magazine Stern of 16 November 1995, placed the following caption under a picture taken from his videotape:
"Seconds before the murder: Armed Serbs contain a group of Muslims near Konjevic Polje. A Serb cameraman shot the scene until the first rounds were fired."
But Petrovic says he spent plenty of time at the scene, before as well as after he filmed. And – he did not notice any crime.
Besides, he does not recognize the words Frank Westerman and Harm van den Berg of the Dutch daily 'NRC Handelsblad' put in his mouth: "In total, our forces have massacred two thousand Muslims." According to Petrovic, the Muslims were not massacred, though many did die.
IN THE AREA of Konjevic Polje, a long column of Muslims (soldiers, militia, armed and unarmed civilians) tried to break out to [the city of] Tuzla and on July 12 and 13, 1995 attempted to cross the strategically important road that connects Pale to Belgrade, via Zvornik. Despite being ambushed by the Serbs, the operation was a big success, as General Rasim Delic, supreme commander of the Bosnian [Islamist] Army later told the Parliament in Sarajevo. What happened to the unfortunate few that did not make it, however, remains a mystery. Even the number of people involved is not known. Some died, some were taken prisoner and possibly executed on the spot, and others are supposed to have been moved to Bratunac.
Mevlkudin Oric - a credible witness?
A small number of witnesses say that this group was taken by lorry and bus to one or two execution spots on July 14, in the vicinity of the village of Karakaj, close to Zvornik. They talk about mass murders with two thousan or more victims.
How credible is their charge? One of them is 25-year-old soldier Mevludin Oric, born in a town not far from Srebrenica. Though asked by The Hague tribunal to refrain from public appearances, he gave an exclusive interview last October to the Croatian magazine 'Nedjeljna Dalmacija'...
"Oric, who said 'My father has disappeared, my four brothers-in-law and many of my cousins have been murdered,' has turned out to be a relative of Naser Oric, Commander of [Islamist forces in] Srebrenica and accused by Serbs of war crimes ('the Beast of Bosnia') and against whom the tribunal is preparing an indictment.
"Mevludin Oric left as a volunteer to Croatia in January 1992, getting military training there. He...ended up as a member of the infamous Croatian volunteer brigade 'King Tomislav' in Herzegovina, where he helped with the occupation of the barracks at Capljina (which later became a POW camp for Serbs). After a short holiday in Croatia, Oric crossed the Sava River, together with other volunteers, to fight the 'Chetniks' [name used for Serb soldiers by the Muslims and Croats, meant to be derogatory] in the town of Orasje. It is in this area, the Posavina, that the first mass murder took place – and the war hadn’t even started. Its victims were not Croats or Muslims, but Serbs." (Sijekovac, March 27, 1992).
Volunteers like Oric formed the core of the military police of the HVO [the paramilitary Croatian Council of Defence]and took care of "supplies" for the elaborate system of Muslim-Croat prison camps that was created in this area.
When Oric learned about the fighting around Srebrenica, he decided to return to his native soil. In the interview, he claims to have served as a "commander of a sabotage unit." He knew the area around the town like no one else and the night before the exodus of the Muslims he already knew that "no more than half of us would make it."
Oric left in the rearguard of the column that stretched for miles. He was captured near Kravica and claims the Serbs took him via Bratunac to a school gymnasium in the town of Glumina, west of Zvornik. From there, the men were supposedly transported in lorries to the site of execution. And yet Oric can still talk about it, just like 55-year-old Hurem Suljic, 63-year-old Smail Hodzic and a seventeen-year-old boy named Nedzad Avdic.
Oric’s personal history is reason enough for doubt, but the inconsistencies in the accounts of Smail Hodzic and Hurem Suljic are obvious as well.
Smail Hodzic: A basketball stadium becomes a soccer stadium becomes a school
Hodzic Story 1: Hodzic first said he witnessed ambushes by the Serbs on the road to Zvornik. He was captured and then moved to a "basketball stadium near Bratunac" and subsequently taken to the execution spot, "a large field not far from a forest," he declared to Alexandra Stiglmayer in Die Woche of July 28.
Hodzic Story 2: Soon thereafter, Hodzic told Roy Gutman (in Die Tageszeitung of August 11), that he was held at the "soccer stadium in Nova Kasaba," from where he and others were moved to be killed, "probably in a town called Grbavce."
Hodzic Story 3: In the third version, told on October 4 to Aida Cerkez of Associated Press, Hodzic went through the same experience as Oric, Suljic and Avdic. Now he was taken to "a school in Krizevci" and the executions now took place not far from Karakaj.
Hurem Suljic: Murder in a school becomes beatings in a department store
Murders were committed at this school according to Suljic as well. On February 16 of that year, he spoke on BBC Newsnight. Footage of a not specified "school near Karakaj" indeed showed bullet holes, one in the ceiling and one at the toilet. But in the elaborate coverage of Suljic in 'The Washington Post' of 6 November 1995, there isn't a word about executions in a school; there is mention of beatings in a department store near Bratunac, a location where Suljic supposedly was kept prisoner.
Serbian woman: A school becomes a sports complex
Woman's Story# 1: Bratunac is the location of another school where massacres supposedly took place, according to Robert Block in The Independent, July, 1995 . A woman is quoted. She is supposedly an inhabitant of Serbia who recently visited her brother-in-law, a soldier in the Bosnian Serb Army: "He and his friends are quite open-hearted about what happened over there," she said. "They are killing Muslim soldiers. They said that only yesterday (note: Monday, July 17) they killed one thousand six hundred, and they estimate to have killed about four thousand in total. They said to be in great hurry, and therefore shot most of them."
Woman's Story# 2: A few days later, Block’s colleague Louise Branson of The Sunday Times brought the Serbian woman into the spotlight. Her {supposed!- our note, ed.} husband, also fighting in the Bosnian Serb Army, mentioned mass shootings with more than three thousand dead. But not in a school in Bratunac. In a sports complex.
Up to this moment, human rights groups such as Human Rights Watch have not been able to trace survivors of this crime. "There has to be a more detailed investigation, in order to establish the scale of violation of human rights that have taken place in the area of Bratunac," says their respective report.
[Emperor's Clothes note: The authors say Human Rights Watch has not been "able to trace survivors of this crime." Thus they assume there was indeed a crime. Likewise, Human Rights Watch, whom many accuse of being a humanitarian arm of US covert services, speaks of establishing the "scale of violation" which again assumes there have been violations. Since the first question is "Did a massacre actually take place" and since so far the authors have demonstrated only that a) the Dutch UN military officers who were present don't believe it and b) the eye witnesses are ridiculously mutually-and-self-contradictory (if they offered such testimony in a legitimate court they would be arrested for perjury!) - given all that, why make this assumption of guilt? Could it be that the authors are themselves affected by the climate of anti-Serb propaganda even while honorably reporting evidence that contradicts their preconceptions? - Jared Israel]
Dutch military officer: "I don't believe it."
IT IS NOTICEABLE, however, that there has been little attention to the account of Captain Schouten, although this Dutchman was the only UN military officer in Bratunac, where he stayed for several days, at the time the alleged bloodbath took place. Schouten, quoted in Het Parool of July 27, 1995:
"Everybody is parroting everybody, but nobody shows hard evidence. I notice that in the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed. (...) If executions have taken place, the Serbs have been hiding it damn well. Thus, I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped."
Milivoje Ivanisevic, a Serbian publicist who has described the events in and around Srebrenica since 1992 in minute detail, confirms Schouten’s story. From 6th until 16th of July, he was on the spot.
"No mass executions have taken place between Srebrenica and Bratunac," he said during a meeting with one of us in January in Belgrade. "During the liberation of Srebrenica, five hundred Muslims were killed in the direct vicinity. I don’t know what happened elsewhere. I wasn’t there and therefore couldn’t see what was going on." Ivanisevic calls it highly unlikely that large numbers of Muslim soldiers were deliberately killed after surrender or being captured. Maybe excesses took place, due to the large size of the groups that were taken prisoner and the sometimes small number of Serb guards, but according to him the intention was to keep as many men alive as possible, so they could be exchanged for Serbs that were held somewhere else.
In his view the Muslims were even lucky to be treated the way they were. "You should have seen the women, with all those children on their laps, that we have provided transport for. They would have treated us very differently." He shows pictures of an Orthodox church that was turned into a goat pen, of destroyed Serb tombstones and of "granny Iva" (Ivanka Mirkovic), the only Serb who remained in Srebrenica, who was found on July 12 with her throat cut.
NO MATTER IF a few hundred were killed, as is whispered in some places in Serbia, or seven thousand, as is feared elsewhere. If people were executed without a trial, it is a war crime for which the guilty must be punished.
On the other hand, the enormous distinction between the search for mass graves of Muslims by the Western media, human rights organizations and government officials and the lack of interest in the over one thousand deaths of Serbs – mainly civilians – in and around Srebrenica since the war started is appalling. In order to understand how this could happen, we must take a look at the social and geographic factors and the recent regional history.
The background
In 1991 the municipality of Srebrenica had 37,211 inhabitants, of which 27,118 were Muslims (72.8 percent) and 9,381 Serbs (25.2 percent). Bratunac had 33,575 inhabitants: 21,564 Muslims (64.2 percent) and 11,479 Serbs (34.2 percent). As farmers, the Serbs on average owned more land than Muslims. "Ethnic mixing" only existed in the eyes of a superficial observer; most villages and townships had distinct ethnic-religious majorities, being either Serb or Muslim. This became a problem just prior to the war, when tension rose and both groups started to feel vulnerable.
Muslims no longer responded to draft into the JNA, the Yugoslav Federal Army. Serbs were no longer called for service in the local Territorial Defence and police reserves. As Serbs relied on protection by the JNA, Croatian militia trained Muslim groups. SDA, the Muslim party of [Islamist leader] Alija Izetbegovic, provided the weapons.
One of the reasons for the mounting Serb suspicion was the SDA Congress held in December 1991. This party...decided to implement a radical ethnic policy. The ultimate goal was the dzamahirija or Islamist State. Muslims had to settle Eastern Bosnia in large numbers. A cordon sanitaire took shape between Serbia and the Bosnian Serbs in the north, while in the south a demographic and territorial connection with Sandzak [north of Kosovo in Serbia] and Kosovo was desirable. Thousands of Muslims from Sandzak migrated to Bosnia, and descendants of Bosnian Muslims who had settled over a period of time in Turkey received an appeal to return.
IN THE BEGINNING OF 1992, Serbs were shocked again as invitations were distributed throughout the republic for a mass meeting of Muslims at Bratunac, to be held at the first day of the Bajram, the celebratory end of the Ramadan. The initiative for this event at the "geographic centre of Muslims from entire Yugoslavia" came from the National Muslim Council which openly advocated arming people and establishing a Muslim state within the Bosnian boundaries. Armed Muslim gangs, some of them factions of the Patriotic League – which was formed in the neighboring Vlascenica – started to intimidate Serb inhabitants of smaller towns with Muslim majorities on April 12, 1992. But let there be no misunderstanding, the Muslims themselves were scared of militia from outside the region. In this context, Ivanisevic speaks about a "balance of fear." Mutual deterrence, whereby militia and armed civilians spy on their neighbors or keep them hostage, quickly led to a drama.
On 20 April 1992, the day before Serbs took Vlasenica and drove the Muslims out of the city, five Serbs died in the area of Srebrenica. They were probably members of the Jovic militia, a group of non-local Serbs. On May 6 (the Orthodox holiday of Saint George – Djurdjevdan), Muslims from Potocari and Srebrenica carried out an attack on the villages of Gniona and Bljeceva. Serbian houses were looted and burned, and part of the population did not survive the ordeal. Leading the attack on Gniona was Naser Oric. The following day, seven Serbs died in an ambush at Osmace.
On May 8, judge Goran Zekic, Member of Parliament and leader of the Srebrenica SDS (the Serb nationalist party), was lured into an ambush and killed. Almost all of sixteen hundred Serbs living in the city decided to leave after this incident. In the night of May 8, they left in large numbers towards Bratunac, where they were called "kukavice" (cowards). Cerska, Srebrenica, Zepa and Gorazde became a refuge for thousands of Muslims who were chased away by Serb offensives, but Serbs were also victims of ethnic cleansing.
At first, between May 1992 and April 1993, all towns with a Serbian majority were attacked. Then towns with a Serbian minority were surrounded by Muslim towns, and eventually whole areas with a dense Serb population – Podravanja, Kravica and Skelani – were targeted. The Bosnian Serb weekly Javnost reported on 23 December 1995, that in the entire Podrinje – the area on Bosnia’s side of the Drina River between Zvornik in the north and Visegrad in the south – 192 villages were burned, 2800 Serbs were killed and six thousand injured. According to Ivanisevic, more than a hundred towns, villages and hamlets in the area of Milici-Srebrenica-Bratunac-Skelani alone were affected.
These crimes [against Serbian civilians] are still waiting for independent investigation, although they have been confirmed by returning Dutch-UN military personnel.
"Naser Oric gained control over large parts of Bosnia through scorched-earth tactics. Because of this, Karremans is right about it, large massacres of the Serb population were committed. The Netherlands in return is asking for proof. It is asking for evidence because, of course, there are no ‘funniest home videotapes’ showing raped women and murdered men. But these things did happen!" ( Lieutenant Jasper Verplanke of the Korps Commandotroepen [the Dutch equivalent of the Green Berets] writing in the Dutch daily Nieuwsblad van het Noorden of 17 August 1995)
AFTER THE UN declared Srebrenica a ‘safe haven’ in April 1993, the attacks continued. Speaking about funniest home videos: in February 1994, Naser Oric proudly showed a videotape of a burned town and decapitated bodies of Serbs to John Pomfret of The Washington Post. The fact that first the Canadian, and later the Dutch UN contingents could not prevent these kind of actions because they failed to implement the agreed-on disarmament of Muslim forces, testifies in itself to the failure of the "safe area" concept.
"The systematic attacks of Muslim fighters against Bosnian Serb targets around the enclave raised the tension in the area of Srebrenica and were used by the Serbs as a justification for their offensive against the enclave," Secretary of State Voorhoeve reported to the Dutch parliament. The "safe areas" depended too much on cooperation of the warring factions – something that was widely recognized after the collapse of Srebrenica but ignored before this event.
There are various explanations for the attack on the enclave. Serbian bloodthirstiness and desire for ethnic purity is among one of them, but not the most probable. The Pentagon considered it to be an act of revenge for the failed spring offensive by Muslims around Sarajevo. The Podrinje Brigade of the [Muslim] Second Corps was ordered to break out to the Han Pijesak-Vlasenica road and from there march to Srebrenica; the military over there was attempting to connect itself to Zepa. The Serbs on their part pointed out the fact that since the coming of the UN peace force, more than a hundred of their civilians and soldiers had been killed in raids by Muslim commandos. In May and June 1995 alone, the Muslims had supposedly organized ten of these missions, even penetrating the area close to Bratunac.
"The goal of this action is to eliminate terrorists and is not focussed on civilians, or UN-troops," Mladic wrote to the British UN commander, General Rupert Smith, during the attack on Srebrenica. Serb soldiers, most of them living in this area, carried lists with hundreds of Muslims suspected to have committed war crimes. The arrests of Muslim men partly were of a selective character. "The Serbs knew the men," according to a Dutch UN driver. "They had complete lists and photos. They pointed them out amidst a crowd."
The attack was, according to Mladic, not primarily designed to take the entire enclave. That decision was made after a large number of Muslim fighters decided to give up the Defence and to attempt an extremely risky outbreak in the night of July 10 to Tuzla. "Muslims fled in large numbers the night before the attack," said the Dutch Army representative in Washington, Colonel G. van Oppen, in the Fries Dagblad of 13 October 1995: "The question of why this happened was never asked in the Netherlands."
But Michael Evans of The Times already knew this on July 13 when he reported, referring to "Western intelligence sources," that Muslim commanders had left the city after a provocation from their side, the night before the first Serb tanks entered the scene. "Prior to the Serb advance the Muslims had fired upon Serb units along the main road to the South. (...) The apparent decision made by the Muslims to leave the city gave the Serbs an unexpected opportunity to seize Srebrenica."
THE ORDER OF EVENTS brings to mind the situation of Gorazde in April 1994. A study made by US Colonel John Sray, former head of UNPROFOR’s intelligence service in Sarajevo, reveals what happened:
"Two British observers were located at an observation post behind Muslim lines. Various attacks by the Serbs were effectively stopped and the position could be defended for a long period. Then the Muslims realized that the British observers were positioned right behind them. During the next Serb attack the Muslims retreated unexpectedly and for no reason. Their only objective was to expose the observers to an attack of the confused Serbs. Serb bullets killed one British soldier and wounded the other, but responsibility for this lies in the hands of the Bosnian Muslims, who hoped to provoke a revenge strike by NATO as a punishment for the killing of a neutral observer."
(John Sray in Selling the Bosnian Myth to America: Buyer Beware)
The trap failed in Gorazde, but in Srebrenica no half-measures were taken.
Apart from the flight of the Muslim troops in the night prior to the attack, there are many more indications that the Muslim leadership abandoned the enclave on purpose. The Defence was already weakened because of the fact that best troops had been moved out to Tuzla, Sarajevo and Mt. Treskavica, long before the month of July, according to a commander of a Bosnian Serb special unit. Naser Oric himself, who had sworn never to allow Srebrenica to become Serb as long as he was in charge, was no longer present. "His whereabouts during the months prior to the collapse of Srebrenica are quite a mystery," according to Charles Lane in De Volkskrant of 12 August 1995. But Ivanisevic argues that Oric, together with 2500 of his best troops, was called on duty in April and May of 1995 to an area south of Sarajevo in order to take part in the planned Muslim offensive. Estimates of the number of armed personnel that stayed behind mention six to ten thousand, comprising 3000-4000 regular Army recruits. The Serbs were able to counter this with 3,500 men, all from this region, far better equipped but only accompanied by four outdated tanks. Besides, not more than a few hundred men took part in the attack on the city itself. The difference in capabilities of the two sides seems to underline the opportunistic nature of the Serb offensive. It is also important to take into consideration that the Muslims had suffered heavy losses during supply runs between Srebrenica and Zepa in April, May and June, which could have cast doubts on chances to defend the city in the long run. The area hardly has any natural resources, and is strategically of far less significance than Gorazde, for example.
Eventually, while the "Dayton" agreement was in preparation, the Bosnian government [Izetbegovic] accepted the concept of exchanging territory: Srebrenica, Zepa and Gorazde for the Serb Sarajevo. Bosnian Minister of foreign affairs Muhammad Sacirbey had already informed Secretary of State Voorhoeve about this option during talks held in May (see De Volkskrant of 1 November 1995). The deal came as a blessing for the Americans, so close to the start of an election campaign. The fiercely criticized UN peace force very much wanted to abandon the "safe havens" as well. Srebrenica became the turning point from a military, political and publicity perspective. Only the retreat of the peacekeepers made it possible for NATO to start with the air strikes in September. The wave of horror stories about mass executions overshadowed the Croatian terror in the Krajina and no word got out about the Muslim-Croatian crimes in cities like Glamoc, Grahovo and Sanski Most... "
WHAT REMAINS unanswered is the amount of Muslim men missing, who possibly died [in action] or were possibly killed. According to Miroslav Deronjic, official of the new municipality Srebrenica-Skelani, that number is two thousand; according to Amnesty International – four thousand; according to the International Red Cross, between seven and eight thousand; and Muslim sources state eight to twelve thousand. Each number represents an enormous tragedy in itself, but the results are also the product of a hypothetical calculation method. The size of the population before the fall of Srebrenica cannot be known beyond reasonable doubt.
Manipulation with numbers was turned into an art during the Bosnian war, and it is fair to assume that this also happened in Srebrenica....
On July 14, the ICRC [Red Cross] counted 23,000 refugees who were taken by bus to Tuzla, more than half of them children. This group was later joined by thousands of Muslim men who arrived on foot. In total the World Health Organization and the Bosnian government have registered 35,632 refugees from Srebrenica up to this moment. An unknown number of men have not had themselves registered and have been absorbed, as announced by the Bosnian Army, in the 28th division. Others (1,000? 2,000?) have fled to Zepa and Serbia.
MORE THAN TEN THOUSAND persons were registered as missing. "Conclusions about the number of missing people based on this figure has to be done with caution," UN inspector Tadeusz Mazowiecki wrote, "because there may have been double counts in the missing person notices and because resolved cases are not always reported to the Red Cross." It is also possible that names have been forged in an attempt to increase the number of missing people, or in an attempt to escape prosecution for war crimes. Mazowiecki’s successor, Elisabeth Rehn, came to the number of 8,000 people whose fate was unknown: five thousand men of military age who left the enclave before the fall, and three thousand men who were separated from their families. Rehn agreed with Mazowiecki, who suspected on the basis of "strong indications" that the missing Muslims had been murdered. During her visit of locations near Srebrenica in January of this year, she seemed to tone down her initial comments a little bit. She was still looking for evidence.
{Editor's Note: The UN bureaucrat accuses the Serbian forces of murder despite the denials of UN military officers on the scene during the fighting. Having made the accusation, the accuser goes "looking for evidence!}
Miroslav Deronjic also gave his version in a report about the events:
"According to intelligence of the Army of Republika Srpska, around six thousand Muslim conscripts have not joined the convoys for evacuation, but instead continued armed resistance, or tried to force an outbreak through the Serb lines of Defence in the direction of Srebrenica – Kravica – Konjevic Polje – Cerska – Crni Vrh – Tuzla. Skirmishes with this group (...) have continued for the next twenty days in the district of Konjevic Polje – Cerska – Udrica. A large number of Muslim fighters were killed during the attempt to break through the lines of Defence of Bratunac and Zvornik, or during clashes between their own competing factions. Part of the fighters surrendered – a small number, two hundred – and they have been transferred as prisoners of war to the military prison of Bjeljina. The larger part, around four thousand, reached the territory of the municipality of Tuzla. It is impossible to give exact estimates of the number of Muslim soldiers that died, because the fighting took place over a large area and in different directions."
That Muslims fought each other, as Deronjic argues, cannot be found in the reports of Mazowiecki, Rehn and Human Rights Watch, but is known from statements made by the Dutch UN military personnel.
{This is another indication of the anti-Serb bias of the UN bureaucracy and Human Rights Watch, as opposed to the UN troops!}
At least on two occasions Muslims have clashed with each other. According to general Couzy, the issue was a dispute about the question if the enclave should be defended or abandoned. Yugoslav agency Tanjug already reported in February last year about a "heavy conflict and fighting" in the vicinity of the town called Slap, between Muslims who wanted to leave to Macedonia via Serbia and Oric’s men, who controlled the Drina crossings in the hamlet of Luka. Later, unconfirmed reports mentioned a rivaling "modest" military unit under command of Osman Suljic. In July, Muslims from Srebrenica who wanted to surrender apparently received a harsh treatment by hard-liners under command of Zulfo Tursun, Ejub Golic and Nezir Mandzic. Such a fight, according to Deronjic, had taken place just after the fall of the enclave at Bokcin Potok. A team of the Dutch NOS-news discovered the corpses of tens of victims on 3 February.
NOW, CAN WE, looking at everything, say anything about the number of missing people with certainty? The latest number of 7,000, picked by the American State Department, seems to be far too high for the time being, but that the fate of many Muslims who fled is uncertain is a fact. Have they been killed on orders given from the top, or in acts of individual revenge? Are hundreds, maybe thousands of Muslims being held by the Bosnian Serbs and assigned to forced labor, as some refugees in Tuzla assume or at least hope? It is about time that an independent institution investigates suspected mass graves, and interrogates witnesses who might have been accomplices to mass murder (like the Bosnian Serb soldier Drazen Erdemovic, arrested last week). Only then there will be clarity about the real events and the actual magnitude of the tragedy in Srebrenica.
[Emperor's Clothes note: even after all the evidence they have provided, the authors still use language that assumes the credibility of the charges against the Bosnian Serbs. Thus they speak of the need to look for "suspected mass graves." In fact, as George Pumphrey shows in Srebrenica: Three years later and still waiting , the NATO forces have been looking for "suspected mass graves" since 1995 with no result. Perhaps more damning, The US claimed to have satellite photos of mass graves around Srebrenica, but the photos have never been shown to the public. - Jared Israel]
René Grémaux is anthropologist; Abe de Vries was at the time this article was written a history student at the University of Groningen, Netherlands. He is now a reporter for the Dutch paper, 'Trouw'.
Translated by 'TARGETS,' the Independent International Monthly Newspaper. 'Targets,' which has thought-provoking analysis of Imperial expansion, appears in two formats. It is a newspaper in the Dutch language, printed on paper.
For subscription or sample copy, write to redactie@targets.org
'Targets' is also a Website in Dutch and English, with news as well as analysis, at http://www.targets.org/.
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/falsely.htm
Refuting the Srebrenica Myth: An Islamist Perspective
By: Konstantin Kilibarda
"The international press…made the battle for Srebrenica sound like Stalingrad. There is a kind of dialectical relation between the attention of a great power and the power of the media. It creates a distortion in our work. What I am trying to do, without great success, is to correct this distortion."- Comments by UN Secretary General Boutros-Boutros Ghali at the time of Srebrenica's capture by Bosnian Serb troops.
For all intents and purposes the "Srebrenica Massacre" has become for many advocates of the "New Interventionism" the sine qua non of the Western presence in the Balkans. The notion that the Bosnian Serb Army or Vojska Republike Srpske (VRS) organized and executed a premeditated slaughter of 7,000 unarmed Bosnian Muslim civilian males has become a crucial element in portraying Serbs, collectively, as genocidal aggressors.
However, one need not look too deep, or even to the Serbian side, for another, non-CNN, perspective on this chapter of the Balkan story. A completely different narrative emerges from within the ranks of the Armija Bosne i Hercegovine (ARBiH), in other words the army of the US-backed Islamist faction in Bosnia.
There exists strong evidence that the United States and the pro-American leadership in Sarajevo conspired to manufacture the appearance of a massacre in Srebrenica with the ultimate objective of provoking Western intervention. A precedent for such a scenario is well documented in the BBC's 'Death of Yugoslavia' in which Germany is shown to have deliberately engineered the 'fall' of the town of Vukovar in order to gain support for the neo-fascist Croatian secessionists in late 1991.
About That Odd Tangent in Mr. Annan's Srebrenica Report…
In UN Secretary General Kofi Annan's recently released report on Srebrenica an astute reader might spot a curious tangent that is never explored by Annan. This tangent, and critical omissions within it, hold the key to understanding the complex nature of events that later transpired in the Drina Valley in the summer of 1995.
Describing the deliberations of the Izetbegovic regime over the Contact Group's peace initiative, introduced aboard the HMS Invincible in the summer of 1993, the UN Report conveys the following information:
"115. Representatives of the Bosniac community gathered in Sarajevo on 28 and 29 September to vote on the peace package. A delegation of Bosniacs from Srebrenica was transported to Sarajevo by UNPROFOR [UN forces in Bosnia] helicopter to participate in the debate. Prior to the meeting, the delegation met in private with [Bosnian] President Izetbegovic, who told them that there were Serb proposals to exchange Srebrenica and Zepa for territories around Sarajevo. The delegation opposed the idea, and the subject was not discussed further. Some surviving members of the Srebrenica delegation have stated that President Izetbegovic also told them he had learned that a NATO intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina was possible, but could only occur if the Serbs were to break into Srebrenica, killing at least 5,000 of its people."(My emphasis)
http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/safe.htm#115
This would normally be a rather strange assertion for a head of government but it is not so strange coming from Alija Izetbegovic. It is well established that Izetbegovic's own party, the SDA, specialized in staged mortar attacks on civilians which were then blamed on Bosnian Serb forces. This operational tactic of the Sarajevo regime's Special Forces (AID) was designed to gain sympathy and invite NATO intervention on behalf of the Izetbegovic regime. This strategy has been confirmed not only by members of the ARBiH but also by many diplomats in the region, including chief negotiator Lord Owen and several UNPROFOR force commanders in Bosnia, such as General Satish Nambiar of India, General Louis Mackenzie of Canada, and General Michael Rose of Great Britain.
A similar deceit on the scale of Srebrenica was not without precedent. As mentioned earlier, an analogous 'sacrifice' had already occurred in Croatia. The ruling Croatian neo-fascist HDZ had decided, at a critical juncture in the battle over Vukovar, not to send necessary reinforcements to the city. This was done on the instructions of Bonn in order to gain maximum propaganda value when, as was inevitable, superior Yugoslav forces retook the city. A similar scenario could therefore ostensibly be engineered between the Sarajevo regime and their handlers in Washington in order to produce a similar propaganda effect.
By mid-1995 the Clinton Administration had already succeeded in fulfilling major US-foreign policy objectives in the Balkans by ending the Muslim-Croat War in Central Bosnia, by forging an anti-Serbian, Muslim-Croat military and political alliance, by increasing military support for these pro-Western belligerents, and by securing UN Security Council approval for limited air-strikes against Bosnian Serb positions.
However British, French, German and Russian foreign policy establishments wavered on the question of full-blown NATO intervention against the Serbs for complex domestic-political reasons. The already firmly anti-Serbian position of the Contact Group had to be further instilled in the general populace before a full-blown NATO intervention could be launched against the Serbs. Such an intervention would invariably include changing the 'facts on the ground' and would involve large-scale Western-backed ethnic-cleansing of Serbian populations throughout Croatia and large swaths of Bosnia. In order to sustain such a criminal enterprise the West needed to demonize the Serbs to such an extent that their large scale victimization would only be greeted with, at best, a "now they're getting a taste of their own medicine" response among the general public.
Clinton's Modest Proposal…
Although Izetbegovic has denied making the above statement about the possibility of NATO intervention in the wake of Srebrenica’s capture by the Serbian army, the allegations have persisted in the Bosnian press. In fact there is an added twist to the story. This additional information appeared in a June 22nd, 1998 interview with Hakija Meholjic in the Bosnian weekly DANI. Meholjic had been Srebrenica's chief of police. Together with Naser Oric he spearheaded anti-Serbian pogroms in the Drina Valley. Meholjic was present at the Sept. 28th and 29th, 1993 meetings in Sarajevo. He was present when Serbian forces took Srebrenica in 1995. According to Meholjic, Izetbegovic had said:
"'You know, I was offered by Clinton in April 1993 (after the fall of Cerska and Konjevic Polje) that the Chetnik forces enter Srebrenica, carry out a slaughter of 5,000 Muslims, and then there will be a military intervention.' [Meholjic then continues] Our delegation was composed of nine people, one among us was from Bratunac and unfortunately he is the only one not alive now, but all the others from the delegation are alive and can confirm this." (My emphasis. 'DANI', June 22, 1998. The text can be read in English at http://www.cdsp.neu.edu/info/students/marko/dani/dani2.html and in the original Serbo-Croatian at http://www.bhdani.com/arhiva/980678/tekst278.htm )
Thus in contrast with the UN report, it is clearly stated that none other than US President Bill Clinton had personally suggested that a "Srebrenica Massacre" scenario would produce NATO intervention on behalf of the ARBiH. Hakija Meholjic and the hardcore Srebrenica militants in the ARBiH to this day insist that "everybody betrayed us" and are determined to press for an inquiry.
Srebrenica's Troubled Demons
Although designated a UN protected 'safe-haven' (which was supposed to mean complete demilitarization) in 1993, it is abundantly clear that the Srebrenica enclave continued to be filled with heavily armed ARBiH units through 1995. Various intelligence reports estimate that between 1,500-5,000 ARBiH troops were stationed in the enclave when it was captured by the VRS on July 12, 1995.
The UN protected 'safe-haven' was used as a de facto launching pad for ARBiH attacks on surrounding Serbian villages and civilians. Thus the real tragedy was the UN's failure to protect the entire civilian population of the Drina Valley by failing to demilitarize the enclave.
The ARBiH units stationed in Srebrenica were quite militant and uncompromising in their attitude towards Serbs, whom they invariably viewed as "Chetnik aggressors". It is not surprising that an alternate scenario about Srebrenica's fall emerges from the ARBiH soldiers in the enclave itself. They were instrumental in spreading fear in the surrounding countryside by carrying out brutal attacks on undefended Serbian villages. For these Bosnian Islamist nationalists the whole Srebrenica scenario that played out in the Western media after the enclave's fall was profoundly injurious to the reputations of these 'defenders' of the 'Bosniac' people.
In fact in the days before the enclaves fall, key figures in Srebrenica were called out of the enclave. Factional fighting, confirmed by Dutch peacekeepers on the ground, erupted between ARBiH factions over the ultimate fate of Srebrenica. The cause of their dispute was not only whether or not to abandon the town to the small advancing VRS forces, but also stemmed from complex political struggles within the ARBiH and the SDA. The struggle was a result of long-standing tensions between locally unpopular Izetbegovic loyalists, who took into consideration the situation in all of Bosnia, and those local leaders more narrowly committed to 'defending' Srebrenica. What becomes clear from the picture, however, was that Izetbegovic was willing to bargain away Srebrenica in order to achieve full control of Sarajevo (most of which - barring the Serbian sections - being already in the hands of his inner-circle). Srebrenica was therefore politically expendable to Izetbegovic, and it is increasingly evident that he exploited it for maximum political advantage. With one deft political maneuver he could not only eliminate popular elements within his own party that weren’t beholden to his directives but at the same time invite Western military intervention against the hated 'Chetnik aggressor'.
In a January 18th, 1999 interview with 'DANI', Nesib Buric, former member of an ARBiH battalion stationed in Srebrenica, and now Deputy Mayor for Social Security of War Veterans and Disabled Persons in Srebrenica, clearly summed-up the perspective of the local Srebrenica faction within the ARBiH:
"I know that they are now trying to humiliate people from Srebrenica and spread rumors that we supposedly did not fight and were slain while running away from Srebrenica. No one can deny that in the Srebrenica municipality there are 2,000 buried fighters. No one can deny that we set up a large free territory. However, without assistance from outside we could not hold out for long surrounded by the enemy. You can write that I absolutely support the statement by Hakija Meholjic that we were betrayed. Why does not someone refute his assertions with arguments? Instead they are using slander and saying that Hakija was like this and like that. Hakija was among the first people in Srebrenica to pick up a rifle and work on the organization of the resistance. Therefore, he has the right to speak up. Ibran Mustafic and those women do not have the right to make lists for the Hague Tribunal. They do not have any evidence for that. In Srebrenica, Ibran refused to fight and lead a brigade, but turned to his prewar flirt with politics. As far as Hakija is concerned, you can write that every single child from Srebrenica agrees with his statement." ( My emphasis. English translation of the text from 'DANI' can be read at http://www.cdsp.neu.edu/info/students/marko/dani/dani6.html Original text in Serbo-Croatian can be read at http://www.bhdani.com/arhiva/1999/93/tekst393.htm )
In short the Islamist veterans from Srebrenica make a three-fold claim, that:
1) A high-level political decision was made between the leadership in Sarajevo and the Clinton Administration on the fate of the Srebrenica enclave,
2) That the ARBiH militants in the enclave were betrayed by the Izetbegovic regime during the critical days in mid-June 1995 when the enclave was recaptured by the Bosnian Serb army, and that
3) Those killed in Srebrenica were ARBiH soldiers who died during firefights while defending their positions, not fleeing civilians.
Any version of events that doesn't seriously consider this perspective on Srebrenica is designed to deliberately mislead public opinion on the dynamics of the conflict in the Balkans. By obscuring the real facts and presenting a simple scenario about Srebrenica, the Western foreign policy establishment and media have designed a narrative with the sole objective of demonizing the Serbs and justifying the continued existence of NATO and its presence within the Balkans.
The description of events described above, however, suggests a much more complex scenario. It becomes increasingly evident that there was a conscious decision made in Sarajevo to abandon the enclave's "defenders" and extract maximum propaganda value by presenting their defeat as a massacre of helpless people. Furthermore, the distinct possibility that the Clinton Administration was intimately involved in this decision - and the precedent set by Germany and Croatia in Vukovar - suggest the profound control by Western nations over the decision and war-making apparatus of the secessionist republics during key phases of Yugoslavia's dismemberment. The fact that the Western media has only played a marginal role (and even then with giant time-lags) in exposing the foreign policy machinations of our elites further underlines the current profound crisis of democracy in advanced industrialized countries.
***
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/kilibarda/islamist.htm
Argo AdAm
04-15-2005, 07:24 PM
:cantbeli:
So what is your point? What do you want to prove? There was no innocent people in Srebrenica murdered by Serbs? All of these killed were terrorists? Do you think anyone will believe in this BS?
Maybe you think that Serbs have right to murder civilians only because Serbs civilans were also killing by Bosnians and Croatians? Is that what you wanted to say?
:cantbeli:
So what is your point? What do you want to prove? There was no innocent people in Srebrenica murdered by Serbs? All of these killed were terrorists? Do you think anyone will believe in this BS?
Maybe you think that Serbs have right to murder civilians only because Serbs civilans were also killing by Bosnians and Croatians? Is that what you wanted to say?
I am not trying to say that anybody had the right to murder civilians.
What I am trying to say is that is that the Muslims were not victims but rather fair game when it came to the war in Bosnia. Muslims inflicted many attrocities and were not angels as most media makes them out to be!
uglybaby
04-15-2005, 08:36 PM
RSK I can understand your point of view but cant you see what your doing? I cant begin to understand you as a person because I dont know you or what you experienced in your life but I would hope that you can find a way past this "protector of greater Serbia" in your posts. I dont mean to antogonize you but you need to move on.
2RHPZ
04-16-2005, 04:24 AM
Another point of view:
Ljubiša Beara, Architect of the Srebrenica Massacre
Link (http://www.bosnia.org.uk/news/news_body.cfm?newsid=1960)
Srebrenica puzzle almost complete
Link (http://www.bosnia.org.uk/news/news_body.cfm?newsid=2044)
RS and Srebrenica
Link (http://www.bosnia.org.uk/news/news_body.cfm?newsid=2039)
Lokos
04-16-2005, 06:44 AM
Read Brendan O'Shea's works on the topic of the Yugoslavian Seccession Wars.
Naser Oric's atrocity-based campaigns in the region were a major stimulus for the lash-out that was Srebrnica. And, while I am not excusing anything (Srebrnica was a filthy crime), there were at least 3,500 soldiers of BiH in Srebrnica at the time of its fall. The killing of those soldiers was a war crime, but not a crime against humanity.
Lokos
Inquisitor
04-16-2005, 07:12 AM
Oh do you know what the most funny thing is?That while you are here trying to excuse your atrocities your hero Mladic didn'e give a **** about Oric,you know what is his explanation?
Because of a Turk massacre occured ina don't know what century.
What the ****?|Turks?oh yeah let's kill bosnians than...
there were at least 3,500 soldiers of BiH in Srebrnica at the time of its fall
hm...I have heard they were 10000 or 20000...well,if you take into consideration the sorrounding areas they were 100000...plus possible voluntirees it could be 5000000...
Topics like this are pointless. "We want to show that your war crimes are as bad as ours" This is a truly sad statement because it says that both sides are slaughtering each other in large numbers and have been for a very long time. Until both sides can forgive each other and move on, it'll keep going and going. People have sent me PM's and emails about getting involved in these Serb vs. Bosnian arguments and I have no interest because there's no point. As long as the hate keeps going, it'll never end and there's no solution. Whether this group killed that group in Srebrenica or anywhere else doesn't really matter. It's just another small point on a big picture of mass killings similar to the Israel vs. Palestinians conflict. Someone has to be the first to put down the sword and not pick it up again.
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