Al Jazeera: Innocents killed in Samarra bloodbath

[jdbjdb]

US forces have become increasingly violent in recent weeks

US troops in the Iraqi town of Samarra have admitted to perpetrating a bloodbath, with one occupation spokesman confirming nearly four dozen people were killed.

Lieutenant Colonel Bill MacDonald told journalists on Sunday that all the 46 were killed when troops fought off multiple attacks on military convoys.

But local residents said US troops killed innocent bystanders when they opened fire on anything that moved around midday.

Workers at a nearby pharmaceutical plant said at least two colleagues were killed and many wounded as they walked out of the factory gates at the end of their shift, downed by a US tank shooting randomly in all directions.

At 13:45 (10:45 GMT), just as staff at the State Enterprise for the Manufacture of Drugs and medical Equipment finished their shift, a second tank arrived and opened up with machine guns, employees said.

One French journalist also reports seeing blood spattered on the ground and bullet holes in the sentry box to the left of the white factory gates.

Laying the blame

US-led occupation forces and residents alike spoke of multiple attacks in the central Iraqi city that was once home to Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri, Saddam Hussein's deputy and the alleged paymaster of many attacks against occupation forces.

MacDonald said US troops also destroyed three buildings used in the attacks and notably fired tank shells against the attackers, who were allegedly wearing the black uniforms of former government Fidayin fighters.

Five US troops and a civilian in their convoy were also wounded, two of them lightly, according to the spokesman for the 4th Infantry Division which patrols the town regularly.

Lt. General Sanchez (C) predicted
a reduction in resistance

MacDonald said two convoys were driving into Samarra when they were attacked.

"The attackers fired rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons at the convoy from rooftops of buildings and from the alleyways," said MacDonald, adding that mortars and improvised bombs also were used against the US soldiers.

More wounded

"At each location, soldiers from the 1st Battalion 66th Armour and military police returned fire with small arms, 120mm tank rounds and 25mm cannon fired from Bradley vehicles," the spokesman said.

In a third attack, another US military convoy came under small arms fire attack from four men travelling in a car.

The soldiers returned fire wounding all four and capturing them, said MacDonald, speaking to journalists at the division's headquarters in Tikrit.

The US military is using considerably more violent tactics in its battle against resistance in the past couple of weeks, launching massive operations both in and around Baghdad and in the 4th Infantry Division’s operational area in north-central Iraq.

The top coalition commander in Iraq, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, had boasted Saturday of a "significant" fall-off in attacks in the region around Tikrit and Samarra following the launching of Operation Ivy Cyclone II.

But the end of the Eid al-Fitr holiday, which closed last week, has seen an explosion of violence against the US military and its allies.

Seven Spanish agents, two Japanese diplomats, one Colombian and two Korean contractors as well as two US soldiers were killed on Saturday and Sunday.

[Deuterium]

I don't know the full details but its strange they picked some MPs and an Armor unit to attack. Seems pretty stupid. MOst of the attacks are on convoys of much less firepower and training. They make their money attacking ash and trash units and convoys. Attack an M-1 with an RPG and heaven help them. More details will hopefully follow.

[He219]

Innocents killed in Samarra bloodbath (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E56B8E35-2484-40C5-935E-B452A2C74769.htm)


"admitted to perpetrating a bloobath... that all the 46 were killed when troops fought off multiple attacks on military convoys"
:cantbeli: A bloodbath for insurgents, not innocents....


"But local residents said US troops killed innocent bystanders .. downed by a US tank shooting randomly in all directions."
:cantbeli: Randomly in all directions... ;)

Yet...

"MacDonald said US troops also destroyed three buildings used in the attacks and notably fired tank shells against the attackers, who were allegedly wearing the black uniforms of former government Fidayin fighters.

"The attackers fired rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons at the convoy from rooftops of buildings and from the alleyways," said MacDonald, adding that mortars and improvised bombs also were used against the US soldiers. "

At least they post a separate story of the Foiled Ambush (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B779F3C6-97F6-488F-8796-BC991D5521BD.htm)




This one is really pathetic:

Casualties among Iraqis also continue to rise. Three Iraqis were killed on Sunday, apparently after a roadside bomb they were planting exploded prematurely near the northern city of Kirkuk, according to police.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3AD04C3F-B6BF-4241-B39E-F720BC73A96A.htm

[jdbjdb]

What do you expect? This is from Al Jazeera, I'm suprised they didn't report 48 Iraqi school children blown to pieces by American tanks. :roll:

[farmgirl]

What do you expect? This is from Al Jazeera

not exactly "fair and balanced" coverage!
At least Rumsfeld called them on their bias and brought up the fact that they seem to be already on site when many attacks happen. Coincidence... I think not!

Brings to mind the Minister of disinformation denying the presence of our troops even as the tanks were rolling down the streets just feet from where he was standing.

[StarvingStudent47]

First off, I don't trust al-Jazeera one bit.

But even if innocents were killed in this situation, any civilian deaths are on the hands of the ambushers, not the Coalition forces. It was the ambushers who chose the time and place of the fight. They CHOSE to ambush the Americans in an area with lots of bystanders. They KNEW that the resulting firefight would place those bystanders at risk.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

True during a firefight anyone would be jumpy, especially during an ambush of that caliber. Remeber Al-Jazeera is biased, so are we. The only people that know exactly what went on and what happened there are the people that took part in it. It is sad that people get caught in the crossfire, but I have one question. What the f*ck are you doing walking outside of a building during a firefight? I dont care if god's knocking on your door at that moment you dont go outside/or to look out a window during a shoot out.

[Vance]

C'mon...everyone knows that a firefight in the middle east is like a carnival. Everyone comes out to see.

[One?]

Actualy there was some sort of a factory nearby and people were done for the day when the firefight broke out.

[jdbjdb]

Remeber Al-Jazeera is biased, so are we
We are biased to a point, there are pro Palestinian, arab supporters all over America, some have tv shows, news papers, magazines, who support the Palestinian/arab cause, are there any pro Israeli's or newspapers etc.etc. in the arab world? No I think there is a total of 5 jews in Iraq, there is about 30,000 in Iran do they get to speak out for the jewish state? if they did they would end up dead or in prison.

[cut]

Remeber Al-Jazeera is biased, so are we
We are biased to a point, there are pro Palestinian, arab supporters all over America, some have tv shows, news papers, magazines, who support the Palestinian/arab cause, are there any pro Israeli's or newspapers etc.etc. in the arab world? No I think there is a total of 5 jews in Iraq, there is about 30,000 in Iran do they get to speak out for the jewish state? if they did they would end up dead or in prison.


it's more than 5 in iraq, believe it or not there's a jewish community there. I remember seeing a picture of a iraqi jewish family in one of msnbc's "iraq under saddam" photo albums

[StarvingStudent47]

it's more than 5 in iraq, believe it or not there's a jewish community there. I remember seeing a picture of a iraqi jewish family in one of msnbc's "iraq under saddam" photo albums

I think the number is somewhere around 300. Not many left, considering that Baghdad was nearly 1/4 Jewish in 1900. Most left because of pogroms before/during WWII and Ba'athist violence toward "Zionist spies" (read: all Iraqi Jews) in the last few decades.

[martinexsquaddie]

well if there were non combatants killed
the US should do the right thing even if they were dumb enough to go see what all the noise was about :roll:
fullsome apology and compensation hearts and minds

[Kingpin]

Brings to mind the Minister of disinformation denying the presence of our troops even as the tanks were rolling down the streets just feet from where he was standing.

Heh, you (US) also reported taking over Basra 4 times and taking over Umm-Qasr - 5 times. Also you reported 51th division surrender and many other interesting things. So you can't blame him that he did his job in the same way your media did :)

[NBC Trooper]

It must be something like the massacre (Sorry for the SP) in Jenin
:cantbeli:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

jdbjdb you mention in one of your posts that Irans Jewish community do not get to speak out for the Jewish state now this may not have occured to you before but the only state that you should speak for or support is the one that you reside in, a person should have no other loyalty but to the state in which they reside. There should be no freedom to support a state that is not your country of residence it only causes friction and it is disloyal.

[UoUo]

:roll:

"I love my country and the rest of the world can blow up !!"


:roll:

[Javehn]

Hah , i remember that one , kingpin .
Well , but still you can't compare the dimention of disinformation . You can't compare almost anything to El-Jazeera.If we talking about Biased information from News network , it's always there , it just depends on political views on the network owner (Ted Terner for example of CNN) . It's also depends which side have better "scoup" on they hands , and which side can make it looke more "flamefull" , and ofcorse what reporter coverring the situation.

[Uncle Sam]

Al-Jazeera SUCKS !!! There's some propaganda for you.

[Kitsune]

If this is a lie it is at least a plausible sounding one. Americans HAVE a reputation for exactly this kind of behaviour. Where this reputation comes from or wether it is justified at all is another matter. But it is there.
Ask the British, the French, the Germans, the Italians...in all cases there is the strong belief (or prejudice) that Americans are ****e to firing wildly around...

In the end we have to wait. American armed forces are as eager to present this thing as a success as Anti-Americans want to portait it as senseless slaughter of innocents. Until someone really neutral researches the truth what has happened there is a matter of belief.

At least Al Jasira has succesfully spoiled the American victory trumpet. Wether true or not...doubt overshadows this thing now.


:(

[StarvingStudent47]

Ask the British, the French, the Germans, the Italians...in all cases there is the strong belief (or prejudice) that Americans are ****e to firing wildly around...

And if you ask the Americans, there is a strong belief (or prejudice) that British are ****e to talking big during their afternoon tea, French are ****e to dropping their rifles and pissing their BDUs, Germans are ****e to building gas chambers, and Italians are ****e to switching sides every four months.

Are we talking what militaries REALLY DO, or are we talking negative stereotypes of each country?! Sure, the negative stereotype of Americans is that we spray bullets wildly. What does that prove? It's just another negative stereotype, that has about as much real-life validity in 2003 as the above stereotypes.

[Argyll]

SS47 wrote

Germans are ****e to building gas chambers

That was a bit below the belt was it not?

Not all Germans were Nazi's incase you didn't know,and that many Germans were persecuted by the Nazi's too!!

[Seoulstriker]

SS47 wrote

Germans are ****e to building gas chambers

That was a bit below the belt was it not?

Not all Germans were Nazi's incase you didn't know,and that many Germans were persecuted by the Nazi's too!!

yes, somewhat below the belt.

btw, if you want to get a 'Argyll wrote' thing, you need to type {quote="Argyll"}blah{/quote} with [] instead of {}.

[Argyll]

Cheers buddy!!
Totally off topic now I got 20 honor!!

[StarvingStudent47]

That was a bit below the belt was it not?

Not all Germans were Nazi's incase you didn't know,and that many Germans were persecuted by the Nazi's too!!

It was no more "below the belt" than "Americans spray bullets randomly in urban areas with no regard for civilian lives," which is what the post was a response to. I didn't actually believe what I wrote about each country--my post was just to make a point. Kitsune implied that because there is a perception that Americans are undisciplined bloodthirsty cowboys, it must be accurate. I wanted to show how flawed that line of arguing is.

For what it's worth, I hold modern Germany in extremely high regard (not just their military, but their politics, culture, etc). I'd prefer to not discuss what I think of 1930s and 1940s Germany. It has nothing to do with this debate.

[He219]

Americans HAVE a reputation for exactly this kind of behaviour. Where this reputation comes from or wether it is justified at all is another matter. But it is there.
Ask the British, the French, the Germans, the Italians...in all cases there is the strong belief (or prejudice) that Americans are ****e to firing wildly around...
:roll:


What you won't read about on Al Jazeera...

http://www.defendamerica.mil/images/photos/dec2003/index/ii120103i.jpg

TREATING AN ATTACKER — Members of the 506th Air Expeditionary Group Expeditionary Medical Squadron at Kirkuk Air Base, Iraq, operate on an Iraqi man who was wounded when coalition forces retaliated after he opened fire on a convoy, Nov. 29, 2003. U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Jeffrey A. Wolfe

[Argyll]

OK SS47 I know what you're saying.
Without being flaming here,but how many incidents have there been in Iraq where innocents have been killed by the US compared to the other Nations within Iraq?
There is no doubt that the US Army is a very very proffesional outfit,but there some ares of slackness,and I've seen it for myself!!
When you read and hear about all the fatalities caused in these "engagements",such as the bus near the border,the ones in Fallujah,then yes it does make the US look that way,,but having served my country in NI I can tell you this,we do not sit around drinking tea in the afternoon with big mouths,it's because it is drilled into you time and time and time again,no "positive ID",then no shooting!!!,it's called ROE,and I'd say from experience that we exercise a lot more restraint!!!


HE219
I'm sure that Al Jazeera will use that pic stating that "US Interogators pull the toenails from innocent Iraqi" :D

[Theatreman]

In the end we have to wait.
Well said, the truth will come out in the end, may take a while especially if it was a case of random panic firing at anything and everything.
itll be interesting to find out what really happened.

[Armour recon]

My opinion in this case is: BAD LUCK. They were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Civilians always die in battle.