Dutch people "white-flight"

[BigBaribal]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065

[futurepilot2004]

Do you just spend every single day looking for articles to push you racist agenda???? get a life

[BigBaribal]

Thanks for your advice, my life is currently not so bad. For the moment, I'm not planning to leave my country because it has changed too fast and too deep, making me a stranger at home.

Is it "racist" to say that?


So, according to your definition, the queen of Danemark is probably "racist" too (1):



Denmark's Queen Margrethe has told a biographer that Islam is challenge that Danes will have to meet.

In a new royal biography, the Queen told reporter Annelise Bistrup that it is both inspiring and frightening when people embrace a religion as completely as many Islamists do.

"This is a challenge that has to be met, and which we have not met so far either because we have been too lazy or because we are too tolerant," the Queen said in the book.

"When we are tolerant, we need to consider whether this is because we believe that something is right or because it is convenient," the Queen said, adding that "there are some things that should not be tolerated even if it is not politically correct to say so."

The Queen's biography will be published on Saturday to mark the Queen’s 65th birthday.

http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/fremmedsprog/English/article.jhtml?articleID=247346


Btw, long live the Queen!




(1) Also, in my opinion, a racist is someone who say he's superior to another one, because of his race, what is positively stupid. And of course, I've never thought that and also never written such things in this forum. May I say again, that it's a poor trick to go "personal" in a discussion, it just proves that the poster lacks of argumented opinions. For poor guns, much easier to shoot the messenger than the message.

[joeserneem]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065


I read 'De Telegraaf' in the article, so this survey is total bull****.
Their subscribers are usually homeless, inmates, or people who voted 'Pim Fortuyn' and love 'Geert Wilders'....

Here is the original (in dutch sorry) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/19884981/Veel_Nederlanders_willen_emigreren.html

[BigBaribal]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065


I read 'De Telegraaf' in the article, so this survey is total bull****.
Their subscribers are usually homeless, inmates, or people who voted 'Pim Fortuyn' and love 'Geert Wilders'....

Here is the original (in dutch sorry) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/19884981/Veel_Nederlanders_willen_emigreren.html


But according to the Daily Telegraph, it seems that it is a real trend:

http://img178.echo.cx/img178/5079/0411dutchdesertion4et.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[henksmoeder]

f*cking maurice de hond :roll:

[askDNA]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065


I read 'De Telegraaf' in the article, so this survey is total bull****.
Their subscribers are usually homeless, inmates, or people who voted 'Pim Fortuyn' and love 'Geert Wilders'....

Here is the original (in dutch sorry) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/19884981/Veel_Nederlanders_willen_emigreren.html

There's nothing wrong with Fortuyn or Wilders.

[XTC]

edited

[henksmoeder]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065


I read 'De Telegraaf' in the article, so this survey is total bull****.
Their subscribers are usually homeless, inmates, or people who voted 'Pim Fortuyn' and love 'Geert Wilders'....

Here is the original (in dutch sorry) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/19884981/Veel_Nederlanders_willen_emigreren.html

There's nothing wrong with Fortuyn or Wilders.

rofl rofl I assume you're joking there, mate.

[BigBaribal]

Ellen and Peter Bles probably didn't find all this joke very funny:

http://img225.echo.cx/img225/9070/0412dutchdesertion2qy.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Strange, this young Dutch couple doesn't really look some kind of evil nazi-racist-homeless-stupid-gonzos without a life :roll:

[Paracaidista]

In general, when the immigrant flow rate surpasses the rate at those are assimilated into a culture, they will invariably change it.

It is happening in several countries in Europe (UK, France, Neetherlands, Germany, etc), , and soon it will start to become evident in other places such Australia, New Zeland and Canada as well.

Maybe immigration to a Third World country may help, ala Argentina in the XIX century.

Greetings

Alex

[TheBelgian]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065


I read 'De Telegraaf' in the article, so this survey is total bull****.
Their subscribers are usually homeless, inmates, or people who voted 'Pim Fortuyn' and love 'Geert Wilders'....

Here is the original (in dutch sorry) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/19884981/Veel_Nederlanders_willen_emigreren.html

There's nothing wrong with Fortuyn or Wilders.

rofl rofl I assume you're joking there, mate.

I'm with askDNA here. People just dismiss politicians like Fortuyn and Wilders offhand, because they oppose immigration. I swear, in Europe nowadays, if you even hint at wanting to limit immigration, you're stamped a neo-nazi. You guys think you have it bad? Come to Antwerp and see how you like Filip De Winter. I think that supporting Wilders of Fortuyn doesnt make you a racist or facist, it just means that you see the state of Holland today, and you have the balls to admit that there's a problem, and that the only way to deal with it is by cracking down on immigration and these gangs of immigrants that make dutch people afraid to walk through their own towns.
I know that by posting this, i'm gonna invariably be stamped a racist by about half the forum-members. So be it. But i'm confident that some of you ill understand that my qualm lies not with immigrants as a whole, just those that actively try to make life in Holland and other countries hell for the native populations.

[joeserneem]

I'm with askDNA here. People just dismiss politicians like Fortuyn and Wilders offhand, because they oppose immigration. I swear, in Europe nowadays, if you even hint at wanting to limit immigration, you're stamped a neo-nazi. You guys think you have it bad? Come to Antwerp and see how you like Filip De Winter. I think that supporting Wilders of Fortuyn doesnt make you a racist or facist, it just means that you see the state of Holland today, and you have the balls to admit that there's a problem, and that the only way to deal with it is by cracking down on immigration and these gangs of immigrants that make dutch people afraid to walk through their own towns.
I know that by posting this, i'm gonna invariably be stamped a racist by about half the forum-members. So be it. But i'm confident that some of you ill understand that my qualm lies not with immigrants as a whole, just those that actively try to make life in Holland and other countries hell for the native populations.

Belgium of course has it's own problems...

Funny thing is, i didn't put down Geert Wilders or Pim Fortuyn because they 'oppose immigrants'.
The problem with both is that they just bash other political parties and bring up problems that everybody knows exist and come up with some radical solution that can never be worked out.
When their less radical idea is worked out (together with other political parties) and the public isn't seeing any real change (be it less immigrants, tax changes etc) the response of Geert Wilders will be that it's not his fault and the other parties changed his idea into a non working solution and just continue to bash the other parties, and keep his voters whining about the situation in the netherlands.

People who voted Pim Fortuyn are just plain retarded he was already dead (shame had some good ideas) and they voted on a party with 99% non politicians (docters, 'celebrities') who were whining that they would only drive their bentley and not their issued BMW (or mercedes?) it's just retarded...

But it's funny how foreigners (you, askDNA) who hear Pim Fortuyn or Geert Wilders think of immigrants, shows how the media manipulates people.

[joeserneem]

Ellen and Peter Bles probably didn't find all this joke very funny:

http://img225.echo.cx/img225/9070/0412dutchdesertion2qy.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Strange, this young Dutch couple doesn't really look some kind of evil nazi-racist-homeless-stupid-gonzos without a life :roll:

Ever wondered why they would go to New Zealand, Canada or Australia?
Why not the usa, why not denmark (you can't get any more righter and they speak decent english)?
They go because of the space or because they are farmers.

Funny how you bring up nazi, where are you from, which city? You voted pim fortuyn, didn't you :D (rotterdam?)

[joeserneem]

In general, when the immigrant flow rate surpasses the rate at those are assimilated into a culture, they will invariably change it.

It is happening in several countries in Europe (UK, France, Neetherlands, Germany, etc), , and soon it will start to become evident in other places such Australia, New Zeland and Canada as well.

Maybe immigration to a Third World country may help, ala Argentina in the XIX century.

Greetings

Alex

So right

[BigBaribal]

They go because of the space or because they are farmers.


From the article: lawyers, accountants, computer specialists, nurses, businessmen....



Funny how you bring up nazi....

The "nazi card", poor trick of poor shots.


By the way, some infos from the real world:

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/9553/050228dutchpeopleleaving15df.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/8263/050228dutchpeopleleaving23ug.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

So, this Dutch accountant is not leaving his motherland to become a farmer in Australia, but because he fears the danger of foreign kids gangs for his children.

Look at the end of the article: yes, some farmers are leaving because of economical problems, but why are rich people also leaving the country?

[joeserneem]

The "nazi card", poor trick of poor shots.

So, this Dutch accountant is not leaving his motherland to become a farmer in Australia, but because he fears the danger of foreign kids gangs for his children.

Look at the end of the article: yes, some farmers are leaving because of economical problems, but why are rich people also leaving the country?


The "nazi card", poor trick of poor shots.
You brought it up....

You are right, 1 is leaving because of 'feeling insecure', wow who cares, 'gangs of foreign kids' roughed up his kids... is that insecurity? What if they were native dutch kids? Who cares if they are foreign or native? If you feel insecure because of this type of violence, WAKE UP!

Mr. Konings talks about how his kids cannot cycle home safely at night. I always did (Den Haag/The Hague) but in Hilvarenbeek you can't :P

If Mr. Konings said he left because he felt that at any time someone could ram a plane into their house, now that's insecurity, that's terrorism don't complain when someone is picking on your kids and they happen to be foreign i picked on alot of kids when i was in school, surinams, dutch antillians....

Mr. Konings just happend to be 'in the neighborhood' when they did this 'survey' or they just contacted him (and the other people mentioned) through Paul Hiltemann who liked the extra advertisement for his company and/or branch in change for some stories. (Or Paul Hiltemann contacted the press which is not unthinkable)

BTW: Accountant != rich some are most have modal incomes

[BigBaribal]

Ok, so some more facts from the real world:

http://img138.echo.cx/img138/3446/050228tensionsdriveoutdutch13u.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img138.echo.cx/img138/7715/050228tensionsdriveoutdutch24m.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img138.echo.cx/img138/3815/050228tensionsdriveoutdutch34p.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[BigBaribal]

"Urban professionals, managers, physiotherapists, computer specialists...."


Question: how long can a functional country work by exporting "brains" and importing "stomachs"?

[Wodan]

"Urban professionals, managers, physiotherapists, computer specialists...."


Question: how long can a functional country work by exporting "brains" and importing "stomachs"?

@exporting brains:

41 years

(GDR)

[joeserneem]

"Urban professionals, managers, physiotherapists, computer specialists...."


Question: how long can a functional country work by exporting "brains" and importing "stomachs"?

1st: i've seen the article by now, it's the same over and over. Paul Hiltemann must be doing good business by now...
The flow of immigrants has dramatically dropped btw so old news isn't very interesting since it has become very difficult to obtain citizenship in the netherlands.

People without much of a future cause problems, time (and law enforcement) will make them integrate and give them a better future. It's a fact the NL is changing. In ten years you can relocate to france (don't know why except for weather but you could) it's all EU with the same consitution by then. If you don't want the mixing of nationalities, fine, go to australia but as Paracaidista said it will eventually reach Australia too. You're just running from the facts the world of tribes and their territories is over...

The brains aren't leaving, i really don't see too many politicians emigrating (none) even Wilders and Hirschi Ali stay in the NL because even they realise we aren't doomed.

[BigBaribal]

You're just running from the facts the world of tribes and their territories is over...

I don't think so.

Basically, all the civilisational blocks stay the same or get stronger, except for the Western world (USA, Europe, Australia etc....) which are letting the Occidental identity fade.

Of course, if you are a "newcomer", you've everything to win in this trend (of course, as long as the economy works), but as a native, you've everything to lose in this situation.

[BigBaribal]

Btw, if this guy is making good affairs currently, it is at first because there's a market:

http://img197.echo.cx/img197/8311/050227dutchplantoemigrate13qm.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img197.echo.cx/img197/7154/050227dutchplantoemigrate25fh.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img197.echo.cx/img197/1028/050227dutchplantoemigrate37id.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img197.echo.cx/img197/3425/050227dutchplantoemigrate58le.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)


Btw, Mr Koening and his sympathetic family don't look like evil racists without a life.

[joeserneem]

You're just running from the facts the world of tribes and their territories is over...

I don't think so.

Basically, all the civilisational blocks stay the same or get stronger, except for the Western world (USA, Europe, Australia etc....) which are letting the Occidental identity fade.

Of course, if you are a "newcomer", you've everything to win in this trend (of course, as long as the economy works), but as a native, you've everything to lose in this situation.
If the 'Occidental identity' is important to you, you now know where to go...

Just don't follow Mr Konings, he's an idiot, he went to australia (they aren't getting stronger)..

This topic isn't going anywhere in case you didn't notice...

[BigBaribal]

If the 'Occidental identity' is important to you, you now know where to go...

No, this is just the very problem: soon I won't be able to know where to go to find an Occidental country!

Africa will still be Africa, China will still be China, India will still be China.

But what will be Europe?

[BigBaribal]

Just don't follow Mr Konings, he's an idiot.


So, a man thinking a protecting his family and giving a good future to his children is an idiot?

Ok, so I've no problem if you treat me as an "idiot" too. I would even take it as a compliment.

[joeserneem]

Just don't follow Mr Konings, he's an idiot.


So, a man thinking a protecting his family and giving a good future to his children is an idiot?

Ok, so I've no problem if you treat me as an "idiot" too. I would even take it as a compliment.

hehe you altered the context (didn't get it?) nevermind.

A man who emigrates because his children probably have social issues is an idiot, yes.


No, this is just the very problem: soon I won't be able to know where to go to find an Occidental country!

Africa will still be Africa, China will still be China, India will still be China.

But what will be Europe?

how about Iceland?

[henksmoeder]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065


I read 'De Telegraaf' in the article, so this survey is total bull****.
Their subscribers are usually homeless, inmates, or people who voted 'Pim Fortuyn' and love 'Geert Wilders'....

Here is the original (in dutch sorry) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/19884981/Veel_Nederlanders_willen_emigreren.html

There's nothing wrong with Fortuyn or Wilders.

rofl rofl I assume you're joking there, mate.

I'm with askDNA here. People just dismiss politicians like Fortuyn and Wilders offhand, because they oppose immigration. I swear, in Europe nowadays, if you even hint at wanting to limit immigration, you're stamped a neo-nazi. You guys think you have it bad? Come to Antwerp and see how you like Filip De Winter. I think that supporting Wilders of Fortuyn doesnt make you a racist or facist, it just means that you see the state of Holland today, and you have the balls to admit that there's a problem, and that the only way to deal with it is by cracking down on immigration and these gangs of immigrants that make dutch people afraid to walk through their own towns.
I know that by posting this, i'm gonna invariably be stamped a racist by about half the forum-members. So be it. But i'm confident that some of you ill understand that my qualm lies not with immigrants as a whole, just those that actively try to make life in Holland and other countries hell for the native populations.

My dearest belgian, (you racist/fascist!!!!!!11!! :D)

Let's start with Pim Fortuyn, this guy stole the ideas that opposition parties (yes, including leftist parties) had for a LONG time (the integration idea). However, by playing the media with his controversial appearance and attitude, and by atrracting attention through controversial and uncareful utterings he accomplished something that the leftist opposition parties never accomplished, because of their limited access to media.

Geert Wilders is just a fvcking douche. He profits of the dead of fortuyn and theo van gogh to spread his own agenda. THe biggest problem with wilders is not only the immigration problem, but the overall neoconservative standpoints that he and his party has. For example, to preempitvely arrest and keep in jail 150 to 200 POTENTIAL terrorists. How can you be convicted without committing an act? Furthermore, he would allow dutch people to marry a non-western (so not only middle-eastern) partner, but he would not allow them to settle in holland. Lastly, he would introduce the three-strikes-out law (it's called like that right?). So, this guy uses the troubles with morrocan youth (which is different problem from terrorism) to get votes for a complete neoconservative package.

That's what's wrong with thos f*cktards, and that's not even half of it.

[BigBaribal]

Geert Wilders, the typical "fascist" ..... near the Lament Wall in Jerusalem :roll:

http://img103.echo.cx/img103/6199/wilders0ds.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Btw, the blog from the friend of the "fascist" Theo van Gogh:

http://www.ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/


P.S. The "Dutch declaration of independance":

http://dutchreport.blogspot.com/2005/03/dutch-declaration-of-independence.html#DeclarationOfIndependence_Introduction

[BigBaribal]

For example, to preempitvely arrest and keep in jail 150 to 200 POTENTIAL terrorists. How can you be convicted without committing an act?

Holland doesn't seem so hard for Ben-Laden wannabee kids:

http://img71.echo.cx/img71/8553/050406muslimteenacquitted9hq.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[sp2c]

For example, to preempitvely arrest and keep in jail 150 to 200 POTENTIAL terrorists. How can you be convicted without committing an act?

Holland doesn't seem so hard for Ben-Laden wannabee kids:

http://img71.echo.cx/img71/8553/050406muslimteenacquitted9hq.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

what would you have us do, arrest someone for having a map of the residence or the main airport in their house ... or just for having muslim literature?

that's stupid, it's not that Holland isn't hard on ben laden wannabee kids, it's more that the DA is a bunch of amaturistic morons who will arrest anyone if it gets them in the spotlights and then they'll spill every bit of information they got in the media

they don't care if the people they arrest are guilty or not

[TheBelgian]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065


I read 'De Telegraaf' in the article, so this survey is total bull****.
Their subscribers are usually homeless, inmates, or people who voted 'Pim Fortuyn' and love 'Geert Wilders'....

Here is the original (in dutch sorry) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/19884981/Veel_Nederlanders_willen_emigreren.html

There's nothing wrong with Fortuyn or Wilders.

rofl rofl I assume you're joking there, mate.

I'm with askDNA here. People just dismiss politicians like Fortuyn and Wilders offhand, because they oppose immigration. I swear, in Europe nowadays, if you even hint at wanting to limit immigration, you're stamped a neo-nazi. You guys think you have it bad? Come to Antwerp and see how you like Filip De Winter. I think that supporting Wilders of Fortuyn doesnt make you a racist or facist, it just means that you see the state of Holland today, and you have the balls to admit that there's a problem, and that the only way to deal with it is by cracking down on immigration and these gangs of immigrants that make dutch people afraid to walk through their own towns.
I know that by posting this, i'm gonna invariably be stamped a racist by about half the forum-members. So be it. But i'm confident that some of you ill understand that my qualm lies not with immigrants as a whole, just those that actively try to make life in Holland and other countries hell for the native populations.

My dearest belgian, (you racist/fascist!!!!!!11!! :D)

Let's start with Pim Fortuyn, this guy stole the ideas that opposition parties (yes, including leftist parties) had for a LONG time (the integration idea). However, by playing the media with his controversial appearance and attitude, and by atrracting attention through controversial and uncareful utterings he accomplished something that the leftist opposition parties never accomplished, because of their limited access to media.

Geert Wilders is just a fvcking douche. He profits of the dead of fortuyn and theo van gogh to spread his own agenda. THe biggest problem with wilders is not only the immigration problem, but the overall neoconservative standpoints that he and his party has. For example, to preempitvely arrest and keep in jail 150 to 200 POTENTIAL terrorists. How can you be convicted without committing an act? Furthermore, he would allow dutch people to marry a non-western (so not only middle-eastern) partner, but he would not allow them to settle in holland. Lastly, he would introduce the three-strikes-out law (it's called like that right?). So, this guy uses the troubles with morrocan youth (which is different problem from terrorism) to get votes for a complete neoconservative package.

That's what's wrong with thos f*cktards, and that's not even half of it.

Hey, i'm not trying to convince you to vote of Wilders or Fortuyn (that'd be hard) Im' just saying that people keep dismissing them offhand, because they actually accept that there is a problem in holland, and that they propose some solutions that arent in line with what the left (people like you, you pinko commie !!! :lol: !!111!one) find acceptable. And, about your critiscism of Wilders standpoints, i think that pre-emptively detaining serious possible terrorists isnt a half bad idea. Like Samir A., wtf was that all about!? oooh yeah, i'm sure he just had those blue prints, plans and notes for personal use, I'm sure that planing out ficticious terrorist attacks was just his hobby. Man, why do people always have to wait till blood is spilled before taking action. This Samir A. "f*ucktard" has terrorist written all over him. And then on the way out of jail he punched a photographer! he should be busted just for that. No, its the spineless attitude of the current Dutch government that's allowing these things to happen. Obviously, the weak policies the dutch have used concerning crime and immigraton have backfired. They had their shot, now see what the right side of the politcal spectrum has to offer. Hell, it probably wont work, but give them a shot. Dont just label them as conservatives/neo-cons/fascists/nazis/'other-generic-leftist-insult' without giving them a chance to see if they can un-fvck the mess the previous governements have created.
And before any of you give me more **** about being a foreigner and not knowing anything about holland, i live in the freaking country.

[Johan M]

BigBaribal is right, we in Belgium have the same problem, the Vlaams Belang is one of the two largest parties, has won 13 consecutive elections, but no: no government wants to listen to their demands which are limitation of immigrants, harder punishment for criminals etc... Instead a judge has condemned the partie, and the media is diabolizing whole the time the partie and the voters are also called nazis and racists.

[Paracaidista]

"Urban professionals, managers, physiotherapists, computer specialists...."
Question: how long can a functional country work by exporting "brains" and importing "stomachs"?
The flow of immigrants has dramatically dropped btw so old news isn't very interesting since it has become very difficult to obtain citizenship in the netherlands.
People without much of a future cause problems, time (and law enforcement) will make them integrate and give them a better future. It's a fact the NL is changing. In ten years you can relocate to france (don't know why except for weather but you could) it's all EU with the same consitution by then. If you don't want the mixing of nationalities, fine, go to australia but as Paracaidista said it will eventually reach Australia too. You're just running from the facts the world of tribes and their territories is over...
The brains aren't leaving, i really don't see too many politicians emigrating (none) even Wilders and Hirschi Ali stay in the NL because even they realise we aren't doomed.

The equation is: Immigrant flow rate - Immigrant assimilation rate = Change in local culture. Countries with low birth rate relies on immigration to keep their numbers. They know about this equation, so they expect to attract immigrants that may be easily assimilable. I must say that many want to do it, and their children are completely blended with the original, which is when we can see the effect of immigrant suscefull assimilation (one generation later). The problem is, as I see it, when governments miscalculate and the new people's children don't assimilate. I believe assimilation of the young minds (the younger the better) to the new country is a process of almost literally hanging around with the locals (natives), that is assisting to school with them, doing sport and events with them, going to the movies, speaking their language, wearing their clothes, having bf or gf of them, etc (remember "In Rome do as the romans do"). But when these minorities reach a critical mass in a certain community, they will start hanging out with their kind (others from the same cultural origin) thus making the assimilation very difficult or very long term. So the goverments must change one or both variables to start reverting the situation. When other isssues are involved, such as very different religions (i.e. Christians and Islam) things are more complex and difficult especially when one try to resist assimilation from the other's culture.

But there is more: The assylum seeker or refugee problem. I believe an significative part of these people are just trying to take advantage of the system to bypass the normal procedure for immigration. Now the developed countries with low birthrate and ample of space are mainly Canada, Australia and New Zeland. I don't know about the later two, but I know a little about Canada. Speaking as an immigrant too (From Latin America moved to Montreal/Canada), I know about the rules and regulations related with the process of immigration I followed to get to my second home. What upsets me is I spend thousands of dollars in several fees and other related expenses just to get the visa here. I had to have through interviews and to have waited years for it, process I believed was to filter people out. I just hope the goverment will keep the rate under control such as what makes Canadians canadians prevails (which I think is the whole point).

Additionally I see in Quebec they are obsessed with the french language thing. Now, from what I was told, they are admitting people from certain nationalities with very low background as long as they (think they) speak the same tongue, while leaving others with better background out (which emigrate to other parts of Canada). But the only thing they have in common is the language so I don't know if the assmilation will be complete in one generation or not, but what I know is the tensions between the Quebecers and the rest of Canadians will increase (This is another topic BTW). Friends in other provinces tell me that immigrants from countries with a far different culture (which speaks barely english) are being seen more often thus reinforcing my view that the local culture in certain cities or parts of other provinces are being changed. The good thing is from what I read is most of them just want to fit as fast as possible, but it will take a whole generation or two to fully assimilate them because of their large numbers.

Greetings

Alex

[henksmoeder]

One-third of Dutch people want to emigrate


13 April 2005

AMSTERDAM — A survey has indicated that 32 percent of Dutch people want to emigrate abroad and that just 51 percent are proud of the Netherlands......


......A large amount of the spontaneous reactions over the Netherlands were negative. This was due to political developments, multiculturalism, over-population, criminality and socially distant people........



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065


I read 'De Telegraaf' in the article, so this survey is total bull****.
Their subscribers are usually homeless, inmates, or people who voted 'Pim Fortuyn' and love 'Geert Wilders'....

Here is the original (in dutch sorry) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/19884981/Veel_Nederlanders_willen_emigreren.html

There's nothing wrong with Fortuyn or Wilders.

rofl rofl I assume you're joking there, mate.

I'm with askDNA here. People just dismiss politicians like Fortuyn and Wilders offhand, because they oppose immigration. I swear, in Europe nowadays, if you even hint at wanting to limit immigration, you're stamped a neo-nazi. You guys think you have it bad? Come to Antwerp and see how you like Filip De Winter. I think that supporting Wilders of Fortuyn doesnt make you a racist or facist, it just means that you see the state of Holland today, and you have the balls to admit that there's a problem, and that the only way to deal with it is by cracking down on immigration and these gangs of immigrants that make dutch people afraid to walk through their own towns.
I know that by posting this, i'm gonna invariably be stamped a racist by about half the forum-members. So be it. But i'm confident that some of you ill understand that my qualm lies not with immigrants as a whole, just those that actively try to make life in Holland and other countries hell for the native populations.

My dearest belgian, (you racist/fascist!!!!!!11!! :D)

Let's start with Pim Fortuyn, this guy stole the ideas that opposition parties (yes, including leftist parties) had for a LONG time (the integration idea). However, by playing the media with his controversial appearance and attitude, and by atrracting attention through controversial and uncareful utterings he accomplished something that the leftist opposition parties never accomplished, because of their limited access to media.

Geert Wilders is just a fvcking douche. He profits of the dead of fortuyn and theo van gogh to spread his own agenda. THe biggest problem with wilders is not only the immigration problem, but the overall neoconservative standpoints that he and his party has. For example, to preempitvely arrest and keep in jail 150 to 200 POTENTIAL terrorists. How can you be convicted without committing an act? Furthermore, he would allow dutch people to marry a non-western (so not only middle-eastern) partner, but he would not allow them to settle in holland. Lastly, he would introduce the three-strikes-out law (it's called like that right?). So, this guy uses the troubles with morrocan youth (which is different problem from terrorism) to get votes for a complete neoconservative package.

That's what's wrong with thos f*cktards, and that's not even half of it.

Hey, i'm not trying to convince you to vote of Wilders or Fortuyn (that'd be hard) Im' just saying that people keep dismissing them offhand, because they actually accept that there is a problem in holland, and that they propose some solutions that arent in line with what the left (people like you, you pinko commie !!! :lol: !!111!one) find acceptable. And, about your critiscism of Wilders standpoints, i think that pre-emptively detaining serious possible terrorists isnt a half bad idea. Like Samir A., wtf was that all about!? oooh yeah, i'm sure he just had those blue prints, plans and notes for personal use, I'm sure that planing out ficticious terrorist attacks was just his hobby. Man, why do people always have to wait till blood is spilled before taking action. This Samir A. "f*ucktard" has terrorist written all over him. And then on the way out of jail he punched a photographer! he should be busted just for that. No, its the spineless attitude of the current Dutch government that's allowing these things to happen. Obviously, the weak policies the dutch have used concerning crime and immigraton have backfired. They had their shot, now see what the right side of the politcal spectrum has to offer. Hell, it probably wont work, but give them a shot. Dont just label them as conservatives/neo-cons/fascists/nazis/'other-generic-leftist-insult' without giving them a chance to see if they can un-fvck the mess the previous governements have created.
And before any of you give me more **** about being a foreigner and not knowing anything about holland, i live in the freaking country.

You live in Holland? No way! :D

First of all, Geert Wilders being a neoconservative is nothing new. It is generally accepted. Furthermore, the point stays that the problem is generally accepted in political parties. Even further, the dutch leftist parties have aknowledged and even predicted it when they came here, but the ruling parties never took notice. Once again, he (wilders) is using the troubles with morrocan youth to spread his own agenda. A majority of the Dutch people do not agree with a general conservative government. Our current government is conservative and the majority of the dutch people do not back it up anymore.

Lastly, with the Samir A. case, it is indeed strange they let him go. THey find blueprints, boms etc, so for all I care he could be held for a while. What we are talking about according to wilders is 100-250 'possible' terrorists. Probably including leftists who release animals from cages too. Although I agree that it should not be necesarry that blood flows before people are arrested, but even with current law it could be different. We do not need to systematically arrest everyone opposing the government for taking better care of sprouting fundementalism.

[joeserneem]

wow, this topic is going completely off-topic... good posts though

i guess i shouldn't have mentioned Geert Wilders, he has some hardcore supporters on this board...

[henksmoeder]

wow, this topic is going completely off-topic... good posts though

i guess i shouldn't have mentioned Geert Wilders, he has some hardcore supporters on this board...

And some hardcore opposers, luckily . :D

[EvanL]

Kill all immigrants and people of colour!!!! There tainting our pure aryan bloodline!

[wholagun]

Why look outside the EU for workers when you can look to the new EU members? There would be less of a cultural shock and everything.

[sp2c]

why look anywhere for workers if we still have unemployment lines

[Wodan]

why look anywhere for workers if we still have unemployment lines

ack

[Clearday-TRForce]

Do you just spend every single day looking for articles to push you racist agenda???? get a life


+1 (truly true) ;)

[BigBaribal]

Do you just spend every single day looking for articles to push you racist agenda???? get a life


+1 (truly true) ;)


A "Grey Wolf" is probably an expert on this subject :roll:

[joeserneem]

Kill all immigrants and people of colour!!!! There tainting our pure aryan bloodline!

http://www.nakedtruth.ca/forum/smily/clap.gif

At least someone who can sort out problems quickly hehe


why look anywhere for workers if we still have unemployment lines
Different topic but in theory, you are right.

[M1A2U2]

whatever, we're all gonna blend into one race eventually. Cant blame them for leaving though, netherlands is a small country and their are no suburbs and such for them to move to like in the US.

Id rather have them come here to the US tho! woot

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Really nothing mysterious going on here, and certainly nothing blatantly racist. It's just a larger version of something that's been going on for 60-odd years in cities around the Western world.

People seeking aid congregate around those providing it. If the aid-seekers do not embrace the same socio-economic values of the providers, the standard of living of those providers will be reduced. And if they have the means (which most do), the providers will leave for greener pastures. The result of that will be that there is no longer any aid provided, and the "new country" for the immigrants will in short order begin to look very much like the "old country".

As an example, look at the crumbling areas of many inner cities that now resemble the crumbling farms that these people left many generations ago. Unless the immigrants adopt the same socio-economic values as the providers, a similar fate awaits any city or nation who’s staking it's future on immigration IMHO.

[Paracaidista]

Really nothing mysterious going on here, and certainly nothing blatantly racist. It's just a larger version of something that's been going on for 60-odd years in cities around the Western world.

People seeking aid congregate around those providing it. If the aid-seekers do not embrace the same socio-economic values of the providers, the standard of living of those providers will be reduced. And if they have the means (which most do), the providers will leave for greener pastures. The result of that will be that there is no longer any aid provided, and the "new country" for the immigrants will in short order begin to look very much like the "old country".

As an example, look at the crumbling areas of many inner cities that now resemble the crumbling farms that these people left many generations ago. Unless the immigrants adopt the same socio-economic values as the providers, a similar fate awaits any city or nation who’s staking it's future on immigration IMHO.

word.

Immigrant flow - Immigrant assimilation rate = change of culture. Since it is assumed nobody in the targeted country wants a change in culture, either the immigrant flow is reduced to keep up with the assimilation rate or this one is increased through diverse programs and better pre-selection schemes. But as 2Sheds_Jackson mentioned, if such targeted country relies on immigration for grow, then the problem becomes more delicated.

A solution may be like the one found in Quebec (Canada) many years ago. There was a point in the province where they had very little francophone people compared with the surrounding provinces. They realized that very soon their french culture will dissapear if their numbers were low. Then they devised a goverment-sponsored program to have very large families (6-10 children per mother if possible) of quebec culture (french language and stuff), which in some ways worked, doubling the province population in a few years. The program, IIRC, included tax breaks and other incentives. Even some richmen privatetely gave away prizes (wills) to the mother that could give birth (alive) to the most children in 10 years. That prize, IIRC, was won and split by 10 women who gave birth to 11 or 12 children.

However if the targeted country has very little vital space left, this solution becomes again delicated, because it may backfires by sending all the newborns away, thus defeating the purpose of the adding grown in the first place and also aggravating the problem. A balance must be found, and at the end small-sized countries will have to be very regulative to keep their way of life.

Greetings

Alex

[wholagun]

why look anywhere for workers if we still have unemployment lines


I didn't know that Dutch people wanted to pick strawberries and other fruit and vegetables.

[sp2c]

why look anywhere for workers if we still have unemployment lines


I didn't know that Dutch people wanted to pick strawberries and other fruit and vegetables.

That's because our government is too easy on the unemployed. These people shouldn't be able to say 'no I don't like to pick strawberries because I'm a computer engineer so I need a comuter job!' the government should tell them 'THEN YOU ARE NOT GETTING ANY MONEY FROM US YOU FREELOADER!!!'

let them pick strawberries untill they find a computerjob imo

[sp2c]

whatever, we're all gonna blend into one race eventually. Cant blame them for leaving though, netherlands is a small country and their are no suburbs and such for them to move to like in the US.

Id rather have them come here to the US tho! woot

you've never been to the Netherlands have you?
it's nothing like France's left flank you know ... it's one big suburb :)

Dutch people are opportunists, right now there aren't much opportunities in Holland because of the bad state of the economy so people leave, when the economy picks up they'll come back.
That's how it's been for centuries, check the Dutch communities in Canada or Australie for proof on that.

has nothing to do with muslims or 'white flight'

[BigBaribal]

whatever, we're all gonna blend into one race eventually. Cant blame them for leaving though, netherlands is a small country and their are no suburbs and such for them to move to like in the US.

Id rather have them come here to the US tho! woot

you've never been to the Netherlands have you?
it's nothing like France's left flank you know ... it's one big suburb :)

Dutch people are opportunists, right now there aren't much opportunities in Holland because of the bad state of the economy so people leave, when the economy picks up they'll come back.
That's how it's been for centuries, check the Dutch communities in Canada or Australie for proof on that.

has nothing to do with muslims or 'white flight'



http://img260.echo.cx/img260/5337/050307nativesareleaving11fq.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/9623/050307nativesareleaving27wl.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[sp2c]

exactly

[wholagun]

why look anywhere for workers if we still have unemployment lines


I didn't know that Dutch people wanted to pick strawberries and other fruit and vegetables.

That's because our government is too easy on the unemployed. These people shouldn't be able to say 'no I don't like to pick strawberries because I'm a computer engineer so I need a comuter job!' the government should tell them 'THEN YOU ARE NOT GETTING ANY MONEY FROM US YOU FREELOADER!!!'

let them pick strawberries untill they find a computerjob imo

I totally agree with you, ppl have to learn to swallow their pride. I would feel more ashamed not working knowing ther was work then working picking stawberries or tulips.

But until then Poles come to the rescue of the sloth in Dutch society. :D

[BigBaribal]

It just doesn't feel like Holland anymore


ROTTERDAM -- To a visitor, the village of Nijkerk looks like a model of Dutch calm and order, its neat streets filled with cyclists and lined with tiny townhouses.

But to Bert van Ramshorst and his family, the town no longer feels like home. Its citizens now come in a variety of hues and hold a wide range of beliefs, some of them deeply at odds with the pacifism and expansive liberalism that has long characterized Dutch society.

"I've lived here, in this town, almost all of my life, and it just doesn't feel like Holland any more," the 42-year-old electrical contractor said, as he took a break from packing to sit with his wife and three young children in their narrow, cozy living room. "It doesn't feel like the place where I want to raise my family."

So the van Ramshorst family, troubled by the changes brought about by immigration, have decided to become immigrants themselves........


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050423/IMMIGRATION23/International/Idx?pageRequested=all