Marines, this one's for us...

[MarineSniper8541]

For Country (http://192.156.15.108/video/mcrc/forcountry/hires/asf/For_Country_PSA_60_ZJWB-3036.asf)

[James]

Semper Fi.

That video brought a lump to my throat.

[NcDeuce]

I'm not a fan of the Marine Corps but that was a damn fine commercial.

[Ratamacue]

Almost brings a tear to your eye...

[USMarine3521]

I thought I saw some Force Recon Marines, man that's definetely academy award material :D

[AOCBravo2004]

Marines always have and always will produce the BEST G-DAMN COMMERICIALS ON EARTH. Nothing but Moto. They hit you right in the heart. Amazing the Marine Corps doesn't advertise job skills, or college money, or all that other stuff, they just offer you a challenge, yet up until 2001 they were the only ones the met their recruiting goals every year for 20yrs.

George

[Javehn]

Funky good **** !!
Too much propagandistic for my taste , but what the hell...
Huya !!!

[Guttorm]

I'm just getting a broken link, can't see it.

[jlanni]

as an army guy my self i personaly like the old army commercials with the old slogan "be all that you can be" lol shure beats the hell out of "an army of one", but that comerical there will bring you into it good job marines

[Ichhabe]

I'm just getting a broken link, can't see it.


There is nothing to see here,..just move on. Just move on! ;)

[gary-amsterdam]

lol, load of bollocks if you ask me :P

[admar2]

lol, load of bollocks if you ask me :P

good thing nobody asked you.

:bash:




;)

[JF45]

Funky good **** !!
Too much propagandistic for my taste , but what the hell...
Huya !!!
Well, it is a commercial. Though my preference was the chess board battle one they had years back.

[Seoulstriker]

damn, that's an awesome commercial! woot

[Minjin]

Worth watching, even if you aren't a fan of the Marines.

[Minjin]

Worth watching, even if you aren't a fan of the Marines.

[MarineSniper8541]

Although it IS a commercial, it its NOT fantasy like some previous commercials that have been put on by all branches. It shows real Marines doing real things that Marines actually do every single day. It shows a cross-section of the Marine Corps' capabilities and a cross-section of the men and women of the Corps.

If you have been or still are one of those people, it is easy to relate to. If you are not, then you are not expected to understand the feeling of pride it gives you.

Sorry you feel it is "bullocks" gary-amsterdam but I can understand your ignorance.

To say "For Country" is no propoganda exaggeration.
Marines don't do what they do for the pay, trust me it's not very much.
Marines don't do what they do for education benefits, the other branches have much better.
Marines don't do what they do for an easy job, fleet units spend more time away, on average, from their families than the other branches do (6 months out of the year).
The reason this video is motivational to us is because we know what the meaning behind it is. It is a truth-teller.

Marines do what they do for some very simple reasons.

1. Pride and Honor
2. Country
3. Each other

Mix those up into any priority you like, but that's it.

[Salty Dog]

chills the whole time. i joined for these reasons, and many others....makes me eager for boot camp in june.

[Jack Mehoff]

How come military commericials alway displayed high speed jobs like Navy Seal, Special Forces, infantry, USMC Force Recon, PJ, etc. At least 95% of jobs in the military are not even that high speed.

[Ratamacue]

Because they wouldn't recruit anybody if they showed people at desks sorting through equipment request forms?

[usa320]

nice video indeed.

[SeanR]

Very nice commercial. Exactly how hard is Boot Camp, is it true that they will turn you down even if you had childhood asthma?

[MaCV-SOG]

As a Canadian that vid just makes me want even more to go down south to enlist into the Marines. I've got much love for ya'll in the states....United we Stand

SEMPER FI

[FallenAngel]

Very nice commercial. Exactly how hard is Boot Camp, is it true that they will turn you down even if you had childhood asthma?

It depends on who you ask. A buddy of mine went through with no real problems. He just did what he was told to do, when he was told to do it, exactly how he was told do it. Some other people with immaturity issues (especially problems with authority) obviously have a hard time.

As for the physical demension....some say it's the same as Army boot, others say it's one of the hardest of any country. It's also a matter of opinion.

As for asthma....I do not know for certain, but a highschool classmate was rejected from the Air Force Academy on those grounds.

[IDFM203]

I am just curious.......are Marines jump qualified and if so how many jumps do they do???

Also what is the selection process to be a Marine and how does it differ from the rest of the U.S. military??

Shalom :D

[Ratamacue]

Generally the physical demands are considered higher simply because the Marine physical fitness test (PFT) is tougher than that of any other branch. However, I think it's safe to say that there isn't that great a gap between an Army and Marine recruit from the physical standpoint.

I believe that all branches reject recruits that have asthma. In many cases you'll be rejected if you have any history of asthma. However, there are plenty of cases where people will asthma manage to slip through the filter.

IDF: some Marines are jump qualified. Some Marines will end up going to Army Airborne School for the hell of it, but many of the higher speed units like Recon, ANGLICO, Scout/Snipers, etc. will require you to be static line and/or HALO and/or HAHO qualified. As for the selection process for the USMC, the requirements to get into Basic Training are on-par mostly with the other branches, but USMC training is more demanding than the others both physically and mentally (and is 13 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks for other branches).

I'm not a fan of the Marine Corps but that was a damn fine commercial.

Why wouldn't you be a fan of the Marines?

[Ratamacue]

Because he's in Army ROTC.

[USMarine3521]

Very nice commercial. Exactly how hard is Boot Camp, is it true that they will turn you down even if you had childhood asthma?

rat is right IF you have a recent/long record of it then yes, but if it's just from childhood then you get a waiver from your regular doctor and spend another 15 hours at MEPS.

I had asthma when I was a kid but when they asked I just lied, I probably lied about a lot of stuff cause I answered "no" on everything :)

saves the 15 hours of pure nervous breakdown :D

[IDFM203]

IDF: some Marines are jump qualified. Some Marines will end up going to Army Airborne School for the hell of it, but many of the higher speed units like Recon, ANGLICO, Scout/Snipers, etc. will require you to be static line and/or HALO and/or HAHO qualified. As for the selection process for the USMC, the requirements to get into Basic Training are on-par mostly with the other branches, but USMC training is more demanding than the others both physically and mentally (and is 13 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks for other branches). thanks for that answer :D ….ok on to the next question. What I have a hard time understanding is what is exactly a Marine?? Meaning why is there a need for the Marines in the general structure of the U.S. military??

It seems like the Marines are a separate entity from the rest of the U.S. military and that a lot of their jobs overlap with other branches and units in the U.S. military??

Also are Marines considered Special Forces???

Basically I am asking, in the general scheme of things, in the big picture, why does the U.S. military have the marines when it seems like it has units in the regular army and various Special Forces that do the same job.

Shalom

[MarineSniper8541]

IDF,

You can read here for a tad bit more info on Marine jumps.

Recon steps out at stepped-up pace
(http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/4453A23F3BE7A28E85256DEA00680744?opendocument)

[USMarine3521]

IDF: some Marines are jump qualified. Some Marines will end up going to Army Airborne School for the hell of it, but many of the higher speed units like Recon, ANGLICO, Scout/Snipers, etc. will require you to be static line and/or HALO and/or HAHO qualified. As for the selection process for the USMC, the requirements to get into Basic Training are on-par mostly with the other branches, but USMC training is more demanding than the others both physically and mentally (and is 13 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks for other branches). thanks for that answer :D ….ok on to the next question. What I have a hard time understanding is what is exactly a Marine?? Meaning why is there a need for the Marines in the general structure of the U.S. military??

It seems like the Marines are a separate entity from the rest of the U.S. military and that a lot of their jobs overlap with other branches and units in the U.S. military??

Also are Marines considered Special Forces???

Basically I am asking, in the general scheme of things, in the big picture, why does the U.S. military have the marines when it seems like it has units in the regular army and various Special Forces that do the same job.

Shalom

Marines in the MEU (SOC) - Special Operations Capable - are considered SOF, a MEU has aproximately 2,000 Marines and Sailors, which include a fleet of ships, Harriers, Helicopters, tanks, infantry, etc. etc. - basically an "army in a box" -as read in Popular Mechanics lol

They are needed because they can be deployed quicker than any other branch in the U.S. Military and can move a lot faster than the army can.

I know I'm missing something *points at ratamacue or other Marines on this board* :D [/i]

[Ratamacue]

The Marines were originally formed in 1775 for security/sharpshooting aboard Naval vessels as well as amphibious assaults. However, until the Spanish-American War in 1898, they were rarely used on the ground. Today they mostly exist because to disband them would cause quite an uproar, and the Marines are also considered by some to have the greatest fighting prowess simply because Marine boot camp is basically meant to turn you into a killing machine.

While there are units in the Army that are similar to Marines, they don't have the same tenacity in combat nor really the same role. The Army has heavy infantry units (i.e. 3rd Inf. Division) and light infantry units (i.e. 101st Abn., 10th Mtn., 75th Rangers). The Marines are more of a shock infantry. Also, the Marines today have the capability to project an entire task force from sea to land. Each Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) or MEU(SOC) is a 2000-man MAGTF (Marine Air-Ground Task Force) and is normally made up of infantry units, transport helos, gunship helos, tanks, and AV-8B Harriers. They're not considered SOF but arguably are on par with Rangers in terms of training.

In addition, an MEU--if in a close enough area--can have its entire body deployed within 6 hours notice.

[IDFM203]

Thanks for your detailed answers……..I just have one more question.(well for now ;) )


, but USMC training is more demanding than the others both physically and mentally (and is 13 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks for other branches). ok please elaborate. 13 weeks is basic included or not and if not how much is the total for basic and advanced training for the marines and the same question for the army??

Shalom :D

[USMarine3521]

Thanks for your detailed answers……..I just have one more question.(well for now ;) )


, but USMC training is more demanding than the others both physically and mentally (and is 13 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks for other branches). ok please elaborate. 13 weeks is basic included or not and if not how much is the total for basic and advanced training for the marines and the same question for the army??

Shalom :D

13 weeks is just Basic training only, the length of your basic + advanced depends on the MOS you chose it can be as short as 20 weeks to as long as 105 weeks.

[Ratamacue]

13 weeks is Basic Training (aka boot camp), which is essentially to create a trained killer both physically and mentally. Essentially, it's putting you into the best shape of your life as well as training you in the use of a rifle and how to think and act as a soldier but also as part of a team. The last "event" in USMC boot camp is a 56-hour exercise where you basically march and do many teamwork-demanding exercises with little food and almost no sleep.

I do not know how long advanced infantry training (or whatever it's called in the USMC) is, sorry. However, according to a book I have here, the training prior to deployment with an MEU(SOC) is 26 weeks (not positive on this though, some of the Marines here could clarify). But even after that, you're in a near perpetual state of training with your unit possibly going to various specialty schools and of course lots of military exercises.

[USMarine3521]

IDF: also no matter what your job is every Marine is a riflemen and is trained infantry tactics, right after boot camp you go to MCT (Marine Combat Training) which is supposedly a shorter version of infantry school. Then after MCT you go to your the job you signed for. For example, you sign up to be a 6494 (avation specialist thingy) your would go to:

Basic training 13 weeks
MCT 5 weeks
6494 school 26 weeks
___________
total 44 weeks

[Ratamacue]

DEP, how long is the infantry school for infantry Marines?

[USMarine3521]

DEP, how long is the infantry school for infantry Marines?

rifleman 5 weeks

LAV crewman 12 weeks

Reconnaissance man 16 weeks

Machine Gunner, mortar man, assault man, anti-tank assault guided missileman 10 weeks

[James]

When I attented SOI in 1994, it was 8 weeks long. Total training before a basic infantryman went to the fleet was 21 weeks.

When I attended SOI, the first 4 weeks were the same for everyone - we all learned about machine guns, mortars, demolitions, etc. The next 4 weeks were detailed for whatever we had been assigned (or had chosen - we made a wish list of 4 occupations. Rifleman was my forst choice ;) ).

When a marine gets into the FMF, training is more or less constant. You arrive as an individual with basic skills, but you are trained from the fire team through company level to be an effective infantryman. It is a big team.

[Armour recon]

I can't get this link to work!!!!!! :(

[Dmitri]

Why wouldn't you be a fan of the Marines? Why would someone be? Just plain propaganda. And there is no way in hell I will ever believe that boot camp is harder than basic training. If it was physically and mentally harder, people would be dropping out of there like flies. Yes, it is longer, and I respect that, but that is the only thing it has.
I was looking at marine recruits in mepps, and was surprised that most of them looked ether like whimps or like dorks (although im sure some of that changes), but now I see that what those guys were looking for is some ego and self-esteem growth. And if they can make it through those 13 weeks, plus chick, don't tell me that it is so hard. :roll:

[Javehn]

Just some little question .

As i understood , if someone should be , let's say , driver , or i don't know ,cook or something like this , he should go thrue all marine training ? Boot camp , and Marine training ?
Another question , how does someone knows if he is gonna be driver or technical support or something ? He chooses it , or he is shipped there without any word on this ?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Not a bad commercial. It sure as hell beats their usual dumb-ass ads where some guy is a knight with a sword..then the sun glints off the steel and >gasp< turn into a Marine!! Nothing like appealing to the mentality of a 9 year old. At least this depicts some reality. Like a previous poster said - too bad they don't show the endless hours sitting around picking up cigarette butts, or polishing door handles.
Nuttin' against the Marines - just looking for a little truth in advertising!!

[MarineSniper8541]

Dmitri,

You seem to be ill-informed.

Boot camp IS basic training. Basic training is the official word for what everyone calls "Boot Camp". When a person leaves boot camp, they are a basicly trained soldier, airman, sailor, Marine. The training you attend after basic training is called advanced training. The Army calls it AIT, the Marines call it MCT, etc etc and yes it is easier than boot camp because it is more technically oriented and you are not treated quite so much like a recruit. After that, you attend your MOS school.

And yes, boot camp is tough in the Marine Corps. Not only is it longer, it is more physically and mentally challenging than that of the other services. You are held to a higher physical standard that you must build up to to meet and you are challenged mentally because on top of all of the physical stuff you have to do, you also get a great deal of pressure put on you while doing it all. Some people go to Marine boot camp never having run 3 miles in their entire life, much less the 2 miles that the Army requires or the 1.5 miles for the Navy. And that's just the PFT. You also have even greater milestones to meet such as to hump the Grim Reaper and complete the Crucible among other things. You should also know that more people wash out of Marine Corps boot camp than any of the other branches' boot camps.

Here is a bit of trivia for you. Any service member from the Army, Navy or Air Force who does an inter-service transfer to the Marine Corps, still has to attend Marine Corps boot camp.
Any prior service Marine who does a transfer to any of the other 3 branches, does not have to attend their boot camp. Care to speculate as to why? :)

As far as "geeky" recruits that you saw at MEPS, well, if you are basing your stereotype of the Marine Corps off of some recruits you saw at MEPS then you have a LOT to learn, lol. Just so you know, recruits for all branches generally look and are about the same. They come from a cross-section of society just like the other branches. I SERIOUSLY doubt that if you stood in front of a formation of a Marine Corps infantry company and looked around at the faces and bodies of the men in the formation, you would not think the same stereotype.

If you think that becoming a Marine is so easy...why dont you give it a try...ROFL. Funny how you stand back accuse it of being easy yet you have not even gotten on the bus to your own boot camp yet. No offense, but you really dont know jack-sh&* yet.
Just as a foot-note...find any prior service Marine who was previously in the Army, Air Force or Navy and I will make a personal promise to you that they will inform you that Marine Corps boot camp was harder than that of their original service.

[SeanR]

I had a quick chat with a Marine recruiter at school once and he said that if you serve in the Marines(meaning you already finished Marine boot camp), and ever join another branch of the military, you dont have to do their boot camp? Is this true?

[FallenAngel]

Just some little question .

As i understood , if someone should be , let's say , driver , or i don't know ,cook or something like this , he should go thrue all marine training ? Boot camp , and Marine training ?
Another question , how does someone knows if he is gonna be driver or technical support or something ? He chooses it , or he is shipped there without any word on this ?

As far as I know (which may not be 100% correct)...

1- yes. Even drivers, cooks, bakers and candlestick makers go through all 13 weeks of Basic and are held to the same physical and mental standards (even the female Marines). After that, EVERYONE goes to MCT- it teaches basic infantry tactics and so forth. After a few weeks of that, you go on to your specialty/ trade school if your MOS is NOT infantry. If you are infantry...your MOS training is basically a continuation of MCT as stated before.

The reason for this is the old mantra that "Every Marine a rifleman" first- one of things that sets it apart from other branches (Marines, regardless of MOS, have to qual on the rifle range once a year min. I believe). This is because the Marines' mission is to be the spearhead of amphibious and other types of attacks because they're quick and deadly. In that type of enviroment, the rear-area can become the front lines in a matter of minutes and rear-area personel are able to at the very least defend themselves. It is also so that front line units can call up trained (though not experianced) rifleman to fill gaps from the rear-area ranks like duing the Chosin Reservoir battles in Korea.

As for the second question, I am a little shaky on this since I haven't been to a recruiter in a few months.

In the Army, you have a contract saying that you signed up to do a certain job. If you don't get that exact job that's in your contract, it makes the contract void and you can leave the service without any penalties. In the Marines (I think) you have "preferences" which the Marine Corps will (supposedly) try it's best to fit you into since you'd probably be more producive and efficient doing something you WANT to do. However, your "preferences" are secondary to "the needs of the Corps"- so if a war starts and the Corps needs X number of extra riflemen yesterday, they can order your transfer from cullinary school or whatever, to a front line unit.

Again, I could be wrong on part of that.

[MarineSniper8541]

Close, FallenAnge but not quite.

The Corps is the same as the other branches in that you can sign up for a specific MOS. The Corps, however also offers what is known as an "open contract" to people who either do not care what MOS they get or simply can not decide. An "open contract" says that you will accept an MOS assignment based on the needs of the Marine Corps and your qualifications.

Otherwise, you will get the MOS that you sign up for. Moreover, your actual ship date to boot camp is based upon your MOS and is related to your estimated arrival at a sheduled training class for your MOS prior to you even shipping off to boot camp. Of course, that is just tentative as you can be delayed by medical, physical reasons and held back in training.

[IDFM203]

Ok a couple of more question and some observations.

First man and women go through basic together??? Is there as a result a watering down of the level of training??
Secondly this is not knock but 13 weeks of training seems a bit short….

If you can be more elaborate what is exactly a Marines boot camp and how those 13 weeks work.

Thirdly, you say that everyone can request what he wants and he will get it so that seems like there is no weeding out to those that are really qualified and those that are not. In other words, where is the initial physical and psychological testing that weeds out people before they even go to basic or there is no such process at all???

I know I am not fully correct here so I am hoping some of you can correct what I have not understood correctly here.

Shalom :D

[USMarine3521]

Ok a couple of more question and some observations.

First man and women go through basic together??? Is there as a result a watering down of the level of training??
Secondly this is not knock but 13 weeks of training seems a bit short….

If you can be more elaborate what is exactly a Marines boot camp and how those 13 weeks work.

Thirdly, you say that everyone can request what he wants and he will get it so that seems like there is no weeding out to those that are really qualified and those that are not. In other words, where is the initial physical and psychological testing that weeds out people before they even go to basic or there is no such process at all???

I know I am not fully correct here so I am hoping some of you can correct what I have not understood correctly here.

Shalom :D

Women in boot camp are trained separately from the men in the USMC. the army integrates both men and women in boot camp.

the initial "weeding" is probably MEPS (drugs, health problems, etc etc.) and yes they do a lot of psychological testing at MEPS, if thats what you mean.

its actually more like 18 weeks if you include MCT, since every Marine has to go to that anyway.

here is a glimpse of USMC boot camp: http://usmilitary.about.com/library/weekly/aa060400c.htm

[Scrim]

Men and women do not go through training together, Boot camp is strictly segregated (unlike the other branches).
All boot camp does is transform you from a nasty civillian into a very basically trained Marine, physically and mentally. Then everyone goes to a very basic infantry course, and then onto whatever job school the Marine has picked.
The job you can get depends on how well one does on the ASVAB(Armed Services Vocational Apptitude Battery) test, obviously the better you do the better job you can pick.
Oh and Dimitri you are obviously a complete moron, I assume you didnt have the high physical and mental requirments it takes to even join the USMC DEP.

[Salty Dog]

Why wouldn't you be a fan of the Marines? Why would someone be? Just plain propaganda. And there is no way in hell I will ever believe that boot camp is harder than basic training. If it was physically and mentally harder, people would be dropping out of there like flies. Yes, it is longer, and I respect that, but that is the only thing it has.
I was looking at marine recruits in mepps, and was surprised that most of them looked ether like whimps or like dorks (although im sure some of that changes), but now I see that what those guys were looking for is some ego and self-esteem growth. And if they can make it through those 13 weeks, plus chick, don't tell me that it is so hard. :roll:

marine bootcamp is harder than any other basic training in the u.s. the only basic training that even comes close and is comparable to marine boot camp is basic and infantry training at ft. benning. the marines have the highest attrition rate for boot camp than any other branch. also, how can you talk about people that "looked either like whimps or like dorks" without even knowing them. very ignorant of you. looks can be deceiving. not that it matters anyway because they just enlisted, they aren't marines yet! dimitri, i hope this sorts things out for you. :-*$

[GLax]

IDF: Army and Marine training are very differently organized, but very similar, like some of the guys said, Marines go to basic, then MCT and finally job specific training. in the Army, you go to basic, then job specific training and finally brigade/regiment training. my training for Infantry will last almost 7 months i'm told. basic and infantry training are only 13 weeks, but you arent aloud to deploy until your brigade/regiment training is done. my recruiter tells me that has no specific length, you keep training until you are compitant. some ppl pick it up quickly, some dont...

[MarineSniper8541]

If it helps you to get a better idea of how long training for a grunt is.

I shipped to boot camp on August 13 of 1990. I did not arrive at my first unit until March 15 of 1991. I spent a total of 7 months in training (without getting held back for anything) before I even got to a real unit. Then it took me probably another 6 months of unit training to learn SOPs and how things were "realy done".

All in all, the average Marine will probably spend the better part of a full year before he has learned his job enough to be called proficient for his level.

As far as jobs go, you do not get to just pick whatever job you want. You only get to pick what jobs you are qualified for according to your testing results. Then, that job either has to be available or you have to wait and not ship until they can get you into that job.

Also, just because you get assigned to that job does not mean you will get it. If you can not pass the school to get the MOS for that job, then you can be re-assigned to another MOS or given the option to get out.

In regard to testing, the Marine Corps is second only to the Air Force on its score level requirements for entrance. The Navy is next and then the Army is dead last with a minimum requirement of, and I am sure it varies according to recruit goals, of about a 50 on the ASVAB test to even get in.

[Jack Mehoff]

Ok a couple of more question and some observations.

First man and women go through basic together??? Is there as a result a watering down of the level of training??
Secondly this is not knock but 13 weeks of training seems a bit short….

If you can be more elaborate what is exactly a Marines boot camp and how those 13 weeks work.

Thirdly, you say that everyone can request what he wants and he will get it so that seems like there is no weeding out to those that are really qualified and those that are not. In other words, where is the initial physical and psychological testing that weeds out people before they even go to basic or there is no such process at all???

I know I am not fully correct here so I am hoping some of you can correct what I have not understood correctly here.

Shalom :D

Women in boot camp are trained separately from the men in the USMC. the army integrates both men and women in boot camp.



Army only have integrated basic training for combat support people. Basic training for combat armed only have male recruits. For instance, Fort Benning and Fort Sill only have male basic training just like USMC's bootcamp in San Diego.


FallenAngel wrote:
1- yes. Even drivers, cooks, bakers and candlestick makers go through all 13 weeks of Basic and are held to the same physical and mental standards (even the female Marines).
Well, then i guess you are wrong. Females in USMC do not held the same physical standard as male recruits. Men and women in all branches and services have different physical standard because women in general are weaker, but i would say different because it's more politicaly correct.

[ChuckThunder]

Although it IS a commercial, it its NOT fantasy like some previous commercials

You mean I can't fight and defeat a beast of molten lava with my NCO sword? Well then I'm joining the Army! j/k :P

Good commerical. :D

[IDFM203]

First of all thanks to everyone for all your detailed answers woot :D




As far as jobs go, you do not get to just pick whatever job you want. You only get to pick what jobs you are qualified for according to your testing results. Then, that job either has to be available or you have to wait and not ship until they can get you into that job.

Also, just because you get assigned to that job does not mean you will get it. If you can not pass the school to get the MOS for that job, then you can be re-assigned to another MOS or given the option to get out.

In regard to testing, the Marine Corps is second only to the Air Force on its score level requirements for entrance. The Navy is next and then the Army is dead last with a minimum requirement of, and I am sure it varies according to recruit goals, of about a 50 on the ASVAB test to even get in. ok so its this aspect which I need more clearing on. What do you mean by testing. And more importantly when is that testing done?? Say for example you have a 100 people from all types of physical shapes and seizes and different mental capabilities and they all want to be Marines in frontline combat fighter roles (not non-combat roles such as support and other things that are not front line combat fighters), how does the process weed them out and also is it done before one even steps on the bus to boot camp or its done after the 13 weeks???

In other words it sounds like to me so far that everyone that applies is accepted into the Marines and only after 13 weeks, do they weed out who goes where and if they even are able to continue as Marines.

Also can anyone explain in greater detail how the ASVAB test works and what it consists of exactly.

shalom :D

[Dmitri]

basic and infantry training at ft. benningWell, I went through it...

Oh and Dimitri you are obviously a complete moron, I assume you didnt have the high physical and mental requirments it takes to even join the USMC DEP. never really wanted to...But, since you said that, I have the requirements for ANY job in the army, which wouldn't be too far for the rest of the military. I can even run you a copy of my ASVAB test if you want.

marine bootcamp is harder than any other basic training in the u.s. I still don't get where you get that at. Like I said before, if boot camp was harder than army basic + AIT, people wouldn't make it. Obviously most of you think that only in marine bct you have drill srgts. screaming at you all the time, making you do push-ups for nothing and basically treating you like an animal for the whole 13-14 wks.

basic and infantry training are only 13 weeks, but you arent aloud to deploy until your brigade/regiment training is done. my recruiter tells me that has no specific length, you keep training until you are compitant. some ppl pick it up quickly, some dont...
Exactly, i mean even think about the rangers. not even sure but I think RIP is about 3 weeks... Altogether their training + airborne is even less than marine training. So here is question: do you think they are worse than marine grunts? Most of their commando training is done in the regiment, and thats pretty much how the army runs.
Another example: 82nd troops don't get to do any night jumps or post-jump operations during the airborne school, they just learn that when they get to the division. So don't judge by the lenght of the training, judge by the actual training that a soldier goes through. ;)

Notice how the Army only specializes in land and air combat...while Marines are trained in land sea and air!

[tthiel]

Not a fan huh? Couldn't hack it? Thats alot better than that Army of One BS. Good way to recruit losers working in pizza parlors.


I'm not a fan of the Marine Corps but that was a damn fine commercial.

[tthiel]

Let us know when you actualy do something. That is if you make it.


lol, load of bollocks if you ask me :P

[tthiel]

I would go with number three as the 1st reason. Mom and Apple pie don't mean much when the bullets are flying. Pretty much the last thing on your mind.


Although it IS a commercial, it its NOT fantasy like some previous commercials that have been put on by all branches. It shows real Marines doing real things that Marines actually do every single day. It shows a cross-section of the Marine Corps' capabilities and a cross-section of the men and women of the Corps.

If you have been or still are one of those people, it is easy to relate to. If you are not, then you are not expected to understand the feeling of pride it gives you.

Sorry you feel it is "bullocks" gary-amsterdam but I can understand your ignorance.

To say "For Country" is no propoganda exaggeration.
Marines don't do what they do for the pay, trust me it's not very much.
Marines don't do what they do for education benefits, the other branches have much better.
Marines don't do what they do for an easy job, fleet units spend more time away, on average, from their families than the other branches do (6 months out of the year).
The reason this video is motivational to us is because we know what the meaning behind it is. It is a truth-teller.

Marines do what they do for some very simple reasons.

1. Pride and Honor
2. Country
3. Each other

Mix those up into any priority you like, but that's it.

[SeanR]

i mean even think about the rangers. not even sure but I think RIP is about 3 weeks... Altogether their training + airborne is even less than marine training. So here is question: do you think they are worse than marine grunts?
Yes, I was wondering about this also...[/quote]

[GLax]

there used to be an Army Air Corp, now called the Airforce.:roll: the Marines have their own Air Wing and boats because thats what they feel they need (obviously they need the boats). the Army doesnt have Air Wings becasue they dont need them. but in either case, and i think we can all agree on this one, the basic object of both Army and Marines is to destroy the enemy on the ground from the ground or from slightly above the ground. but like Dmitri said, real training doesnt start till you get to your regiment. and i said its 2 different systems, neither better than the other, just a different TRADOC...

[tthiel]

The only people who would say its the same as Army Boot would be Army weenies. No way a Marine or anyone knows anything about boot camp would say that. Army, Navy and Air Force Basic training are a joke compared to Marine Corps Boot camp. Just compare failure rates for one.


[quote=SeanR]
As for the physical demension....some say it's the same as Army boot, others say it's one of the hardest of any country. It's also a matter of opinion.

As for asthma....I do not know for certain, but a highschool classmate was rejected from the Air Force Academy on those grounds.

[tthiel]

Wrong.


Generally the physical demands are considered higher simply because the Marine physical fitness test (PFT) is tougher than that of any other branch. However, I think it's safe to say that there isn't that great a gap between an Army and Marine recruit from the physical standpoint.

I believe that all branches reject recruits that have asthma. In many cases you'll be rejected if you have any history of asthma. However, there are plenty of cases where people will asthma manage to slip through the filter.

IDF: some Marines are jump qualified. Some Marines will end up going to Army Airborne School for the hell of it, but many of the higher speed units like Recon, ANGLICO, Scout/Snipers, etc. will require you to be static line and/or HALO and/or HAHO qualified. As for the selection process for the USMC, the requirements to get into Basic Training are on-par mostly with the other branches, but USMC training is more demanding than the others both physically and mentally (and is 13 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks for other branches).

[GLax]

The only people who would say its the same as Army Boot would be Army weenies. No way a Marine or anyone knows anything about boot camp would say that. Army, Navy and Air Force Basic training are a joke compared to Marine Corps Boot camp. Just compare failure rates for one.

we were talking about Army Infantry boot actually. everybody knows that support guys dont train as much...

[tthiel]

Thats a good question and an uncomfortable one for the modern Marine Corps. Their main reason for existence has been the amphibious mission but amphibious landings seem to be a thing of the past. Secondly they are a general rapid reaction force but so are certain Army units. The difference is that Marine units are much better equipped, supplied, and trained for long term missions on short notice than Army units. They are also more highly skilled and aggressive than your normal Army unit making them excellent assault troops. During the Gulf war and other conflicts over the last 20 years Marine Corps units fought faster, harder, and longe than Army units and were able to keep going when Army units had to stop to rest and resupply.



IDF: some Marines are jump qualified. Some Marines will end up going to Army Airborne School for the hell of it, but many of the higher speed units like Recon, ANGLICO, Scout/Snipers, etc. will require you to be static line and/or HALO and/or HAHO qualified. As for the selection process for the USMC, the requirements to get into Basic Training are on-par mostly with the other branches, but USMC training is more demanding than the others both physically and mentally (and is 13 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks for other branches). thanks for that answer :D ….ok on to the next question. What I have a hard time understanding is what is exactly a Marine?? Meaning why is there a need for the Marines in the general structure of the U.S. military??

It seems like the Marines are a separate entity from the rest of the U.S. military and that a lot of their jobs overlap with other branches and units in the U.S. military??

Also are Marines considered Special Forces???

Basically I am asking, in the general scheme of things, in the big picture, why does the U.S. military have the marines when it seems like it has units in the regular army and various Special Forces that do the same job.

Shalom

[tthiel]

MEU-SOCs are simply regular Marine Infantry battalions trained through a series of workups to become MEU-SOC qualified and capable before deploying. I have been on many such eployments. It may seem like a special unit to members of other services but they are regular Marine Infantry which is head and shoulders above regular Army infantry.




IDF: some Marines are jump qualified. Some Marines will end up going to Army Airborne School for the hell of it, but many of the higher speed units like Recon, ANGLICO, Scout/Snipers, etc. will require you to be static line and/or HALO and/or HAHO qualified. As for the selection process for the USMC, the requirements to get into Basic Training are on-par mostly with the other branches, but USMC training is more demanding than the others both physically and mentally (and is 13 weeks as opposed to 8 weeks for other branches). thanks for that answer :D ….ok on to the next question. What I have a hard time understanding is what is exactly a Marine?? Meaning why is there a need for the Marines in the general structure of the U.S. military??

It seems like the Marines are a separate entity from the rest of the U.S. military and that a lot of their jobs overlap with other branches and units in the U.S. military??

Also are Marines considered Special Forces???

Basically I am asking, in the general scheme of things, in the big picture, why does the U.S. military have the marines when it seems like it has units in the regular army and various Special Forces that do the same job.

Shalom

Marines in the MEU (SOC) - Special Operations Capable - are considered SOF, a MEU has aproximately 2,000 Marines and Sailors, which include a fleet of ships, Harriers, Helicopters, tanks, infantry, etc. etc. - basically an "army in a box" -as read in Popular Mechanics lol

They are needed because they can be deployed quicker than any other branch in the U.S. Military and can move a lot faster than the army can.

I know I'm missing something *points at ratamacue or other Marines on this board* :D [/i]

[tthiel]

Great answer.


The Marines were originally formed in 1775 for security/sharpshooting aboard Naval vessels as well as amphibious assaults. However, until the Spanish-American War in 1898, they were rarely used on the ground. Today they mostly exist because to disband them would cause quite an uproar, and the Marines are also considered by some to have the greatest fighting prowess simply because Marine boot camp is basically meant to turn you into a killing machine.

While there are units in the Army that are similar to Marines, they don't have the same tenacity in combat nor really the same role. The Army has heavy infantry units (i.e. 3rd Inf. Division) and light infantry units (i.e. 101st Abn., 10th Mtn., 75th Rangers). The Marines are more of a shock infantry. Also, the Marines today have the capability to project an entire task force from sea to land. Each Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) or MEU(SOC) is a 2000-man MAGTF (Marine Air-Ground Task Force) and is normally made up of infantry units, transport helos, gunship helos, tanks, and AV-8B Harriers. They're not considered SOF but arguably are on par with Rangers in terms of training.

In addition, an MEU--if in a close enough area--can have its entire body deployed within 6 hours notice.

[tthiel]

Well your obivously sacred to try. So what if you saw unimpressive people in Mepps? You don't know if they made it and if they did then they sure as hell are a better man than you. You can't believe Boot camp is much harder than Basic training? What a joke. How would you know bozo?



Why wouldn't you be a fan of the Marines? Why would someone be? Just plain propaganda. And there is no way in hell I will ever believe that boot camp is harder than basic training. If it was physically and mentally harder, people would be dropping out of there like flies. Yes, it is longer, and I respect that, but that is the only thing it has.
I was looking at marine recruits in mepps, and was surprised that most of them looked ether like whimps or like dorks (although im sure some of that changes), but now I see that what those guys were looking for is some ego and self-esteem growth. And if they can make it through those 13 weeks, plus chick, don't tell me that it is so hard. :roll:

[tthiel]

Heh...Open contract = Infantry just about very time. Its also important to know that unlike the other services the Marine Corps has a very small administrative "tail". This means a much higher percentage of Marines are fighters of one type or other rather than supply clerks and other office pogue type jobs. There are also fewer women by far although it is a lot more than when I was in 1977-1990. During the 12 years I was in the Marine Corps I was not in a single unit that had any women. They were simply not allowed in combat units of any type. I probably saw a women marines a few times a year if that. I know it's different now but I'm not sure how different.


Close, FallenAnge but not quite.

The Corps is the same as the other branches in that you can sign up for a specific MOS. The Corps, however also offers what is known as an "open contract" to people who either do not care what MOS they get or simply can not decide. An "open contract" says that you will accept an MOS assignment based on the needs of the Marine Corps and your qualifications.

Otherwise, you will get the MOS that you sign up for. Moreover, your actual ship date to boot camp is based upon your MOS and is related to your estimated arrival at a sheduled training class for your MOS prior to you even shipping off to boot camp. Of course, that is just tentative as you can be delayed by medical, physical reasons and held back in training.

[tthiel]

Your an idiot.



basic and infantry training at ft. benningWell, I went through it...

Oh and Dimitri you are obviously a complete moron, I assume you didnt have the high physical and mental requirments it takes to even join the USMC DEP. never really wanted to...But, since you said that, I have the requirements for ANY job in the army, which wouldn't be too far for the rest of the military. I can even run you a copy of my ASVAB test if you want.

marine bootcamp is harder than any other basic training in the u.s. I still don't get where you get that at. Like I said before, if boot camp was harder than army basic + AIT, people wouldn't make it. Obviously most of you think that only in marine bct you have drill srgts. screaming at you all the time, making you do push-ups for nothing and basically treating you like an animal for the whole 13-14 wks.

basic and infantry training are only 13 weeks, but you arent aloud to deploy until your brigade/regiment training is done. my recruiter tells me that has no specific length, you keep training until you are compitant. some ppl pick it up quickly, some dont...
Exactly, i mean even think about the rangers. not even sure but I think RIP is about 3 weeks... Altogether their training + airborne is even less than marine training. So here is question: do you think they are worse than marine grunts? Most of their commando training is done in the regiment, and thats pretty much how the army runs.
Another example: 82nd troops don't get to do any night jumps or post-jump operations during the airborne school, they just learn that when they get to the division. So don't judge by the lenght of the training, judge by the actual training that a soldier goes through. ;)

[Dmitri]

Dude, all this BS that you just gave is obviously just a matter of opinion. You haven't given any facts or numbers, and finally get this: I am in the ARMY, with NO intent whatsoever of ever joining marine. So quit asking me to try, there is nothing that I'll get there that I don't already know.


They're not considered SOF but arguably are on par with Rangers in terms of training.
OK, are marines, besides scout platoons trained to do Long-Range recon? Are they airborne? Do they even train on the small inflateble boats? Are MEU trained in the mountain and jungle warfare?
That what I thought :bash:
Tthiel: I can talk all day abou how great, agressive and super duper army is (based just on opinion), but that would be exactly what you are doing.. :roll:

Army bootcamp is nothing compared to MARINE Bootcamp, army makes soldiers, Marine Corps makes soldiers and MARINES! woot woot

[USMarine3521]

Army bootcamp is nothing compared to MARINE Bootcamp, army makes soldiers, Marine Corps makes soldiers and MARINES! woot woot

they make just Marines.

[Salty Dog]

Dude, all this BS that you just gave is obviously just a matter of opinion. You haven't given any facts or numbers, and finally get this: I am in the ARMY, with NO intent whatsoever of ever joining marine. So quit asking me to try, there is nothing that I'll get there that I don't already know.


They're not considered SOF but arguably are on par with Rangers in terms of training.
OK, are marines, besides scout platoons trained to do Long-Range recon? Are they airborne? Do they even train on the small inflateble boats? Are MEU trained in the mountain and jungle warfare?
That what I thought :bash:
Tthiel: I can talk all day abou how great, agressive and super duper army is (based just on opinion), but that would be exactly what you are doing.. :roll:

MEU's i beleive are ready to be deployed into all areas, mountainous, or jungle. and you talk about long range recon...the marines practically wrote the book on long range reconaissance. but i noticed that you say "besides scout platoons", why would you say that? are you trying to compare marine infantry to army rangers?......now you're just taking things and twisting them around to meet your needs. i can see this turning into a pissing contest already.

[Ratamacue]

I believe many Army Rangers have said that the only difference between a Marine and a Ranger is that Rangers are parachute-qualified. Marines still do rappelling and fastroping though.

[Salty Dog]

i have heard that as well ratamacue. i don't know, it's understandable...he is just trying to say the army is better than the marines, that's fine, it's just his opinion, and i will respect it, though i do not agree with it....though i think somebody wants to be a marine.......dimitri.....it's ok, these feelings are only natural, oorah! rofl

[Dmitri]

Army bootcamp is nothing compared to MARINE Bootcamp, army makes soldiers, Marine Corps makes soldiers and MARINES!Haha, look what you did to this young guy, he is already brainwashed rofl

MEU's i beleive are ready to be deployed into all areas, mountainous, or jungle. and you talk about long range recon...the marines practically wrote the book on long range reconaissanceThere are many things I believe too. What I am trying to say is that for scouts recon IS one of the primary tasks, but that is why they have scouts, so the rest won't go in there. And please don't say that every marine is trained in the long-range recon.

though i think somebody wants to be a marineI had respect for marines when I really thought that they do a lot of water operations, and I thought that was what made them stand-out, but since that is not really true there is nothing else attractive about it.

[Jack Mehoff]

With all this bull**** talk how great the Marines are. So where are the Marines in Afghanistan? Where are the Marines in Iraq? I know the USMC participated during the initial major combats earlier this year but they left Iraq right after that. rofl rofl

[Ratamacue]

I highly doubt that was the decision of the Marines. Don't worry, they're going back in. AND they definitely did more fighting than Army infantry during major combat. As for Afghanistan, the Marines were among the first troops in but were never sent into real combat.

[Jack Mehoff]

MEU-SOCs are simply regular Marine Infantry battalions trained through a series of workups to become MEU-SOC qualified and capable before deploying. I have been on many such eployments. It may seem like a special unit to members of other services but they are regular Marine Infantry which is head and shoulders above regular Army infantry.


If i remember correctly MEU also have their own artillery, tanks, attack heliocopters, infantry. How the hell artillery, tankers, pilot jocky are consider special ops capable?

[Salty Dog]

why are they talking about sending in 2,700 marines to iraq in 2004, when the army could contribute those numbers with out a problem?...could it be that the army cannot do thier job?....i honestly don't know. :cantbeli:

has anyone else read "making the corps"? many points are made in that book in regards to the mini pissing contest we have going on here, it is a great book. but whatever , we are all on the same team here, so i am done man.

[Ratamacue]

The infantry is Special Operations-Capable. Don't be a smartass.

[Jack Mehoff]

I highly doubt that was the decision of the Marines. Don't worry, they're going back in. AND they definitely did more fighting than Army infantry during major combat. As for Afghanistan, the Marines were among the first troops in but were never sent into real combat.

Dude, stop pulling **** out of your ass. Can you at least prove that Marines fought harder than Army earlier this year? One thing i know is the Army's 3rd ID participated in the invasion and stay in Iraq much longer than the Marines after all the major combat was over.

[Ratamacue]

All the while the 3rd Infantry and the rest of the Army charged towards Baghdad, the 1st MEF fought it's way through the cities in the south. And they continued fighting until major hostilities were declared over.

[Salty Dog]

that's the whole point jack. marines: go in, do their job, and leave. then the army comes in and cleans up the mess rofl

[Jack Mehoff]

that's the whole point jack. marines: go in, do their job, and leave. then the army comes in and cleans up the mess rofl

So i guess the 3rd ID and 101st didn't do **** earlier this year in Iraq.

Afghanistan on the other hand won decisively by Army's ground forces

ARMY-HOOAH
MARINES-OORAH
NAVY SEALS- HOOYAH
AIRFORCE- HUH? rofl

[Jack Mehoff]

ARMY-HOOAH
MARINES-OORAH
NAVY SEALS- HOOYAH
AIRFORCE- HUH? rofl

AIRFORCE- AIM HIGH :-*$

[Dmitri]

Oh, com on MarineDep4, you are not giving up are you? See, the only thing that bothers me is that there is just too much bragging from Marines, but not much proof. Everyone wants to say that they are a different breed, so much better than the army, and they make fine commercials about it too, but that is about it. Yes, we are still in the same military and they are my comrades, but like I said, there are always rivalries, and this is one of them.

why are they talking about sending in 2,700 marines to iraq in 2004, when the army could contribute those numbers with out a problem?...could it be that the army cannot do thier job?....i honestly don't know.
No, Army had more troops there from the getgo, plus plenty in Afganistan, and there is an NG Division that is supposed to be headed there soon. And it is about time marines got there, instead of just coming back home to get all their GLORY, while Army stayed there.



AND they definitely did more fighting than Army infantry during major combat.
Ok, any base for that idiotic opinion? That is the kind of sensless bragging I am talking about. Here are some facts for you son: Army had contributed 3rd ID, 101 airborne, then SF, because 4th ID wasn't let by Turkey, had to control the WHOLE NORTH as they used Kurds as force multiplier, and the 173rd parachuted in to help. Don't want to be wrong but didn't marines have only one MEU there? And then, as told even by all news networks, SEALs did a lot of Recon job for MEU. So where was the Force and I thought you guys said that marines wrote the recon books? rofl

[Salty Dog]

they did rofl

Wait one second, are you saying you think the Army is better than the Marine Corps? Marines are different BREEDS. No one will get into your head, not the Army,Navy,or Airforce, but the MARINES. Marines have the right to be cocky, because they are that good!

[GLax]

so while the Army was charging up to Bagdhad, they met no resistance? come on guys... the 3ID's mission wasnt to **** around with the 'fierce' fedayeen you know. they did blow through that guard division at Karbala if you remember rite... your also forgetting the Northern front with SF and the 172nd Airborne Brigade. as for who saw more 'action', i couldnt tell you, wasnt there, neither were you for that matter. i'm pretty sure they all saw their 'fair share' of warfare in the conflict....

[Ratamacue]

The Marines had an entire MEF in Kuwait I believe, which is around 45,000 men. I do not know how many they sent into Iraq but it's certainly more than 1 MEU.

And just because the SEALs did recon for the MEU's doesn't mean Force didn't. Every MEU has a Maritime Special Purpose Force (MSPF) which is comprised of Recon Marines, SEALs, and I believe FAST. Remember that Recon/Force Recon has a much lower profile than units in SOCOM.

The Marines had an entire MEF in Kuwait I believe, which is around 45,000 men. I do not know how many they sent into Iraq but it's certainly more than 1 MEU.

Remember that Recon/Force Recon has a much lower profile than units in SOCOM.

VERY TRUE!

[Dmitri]

Ok, but you guy were arguing that marines could do recon so good... Tell me how MEU, which is supposed to be so great, with scout platoons and Force on top of that also neede the SEALs help?


Wait one second, are you saying you think the Army is better than the Marine Corps? Marines are different BREEDS. No one will get into your head, not the Army,Navy,or Airforce, but the MARINES. Marines have the right to be cocky, because they are that good!I feel sorry for you boy, propaganda is terrible for young minds... :petting: Most special op. forces are "quiet professionals", while marines are more than loud about everything, another quality that makes them lesser...

[GLax]

AND they definitely did more fighting than Army infantry during major combat.

how do you know? where you there? no, you werent. you talk like a big shot but you havnt even been to boot yet. that makes your information about the ground combat in Iraq as useful as mine, which as a matter of fact, has no use at all, so lay off the big shot talk...

AND they definitely did more fighting than Army infantry during major combat.

how do you know? where you there? no, you werent. you talk like a big shot but you havnt even been to boot yet. that makes your information about the ground combat in Iraq as useful as mine, which as a matter of fact, has no use at all, so lay off the big shot talk...

I'm sure Rat is not just trying to talk like a big shot, he seems to know a lot about this stuff, you don't have to go through boot or be in Iraq to know these things, I'm sure he based his info on actual facts.

[Ratamacue]

Ever heard of the "Navy-Marine Corps Team?" The MEU doesn't try to operate seperately from the Navy, nor should it. The whole point of MEU's is an integrated force that essentially has all it needs for a sustained fight on the ground. That means that they're able to integrated both Marine and Navy infantry, SOF, tanks, and aircraft into one fighting force.

[Salty Dog]

this is getting us places, i can see that already :cantbeli:
we all have our own opinions....let's all be friends again and stop this stupid argument...what do ya say guys? :hug:

[Jack Mehoff]

wtf is Navy infantry? rofl

[Ratamacue]

Agreed. I'm starting to feel like a fool for some of the **** I've said, don't feel like making even more of a fool of myself. I don't see anybody winning anyway. ;)

PS: Jack, you know I'm talking about Marine infantry. Don't be a smartass about things that don't matter.

[Jack Mehoff]

I'm sorry but i still don't know what is Navy infantry :lol:

[Ratamacue]

Me neither. ;)

[Salty Dog]

aw, a happy ending to a stupid argument. as hannibal always said "i love it when a plan comes together" :hug: rofl

wtf is Navy infantry? rofl

Navy SEALs? :lol:

[Dmitri]

Like I said, no real hard feelings, we are still on one team, but every time it ends before anything is said. You guys still didn't really answer my questions concerning marines and MEUs.

Ever heard of the "Navy-Marine Corps Team?" The MEU doesn't try to operate seperately from the Navy, nor should it. The whole point of MEU's is an integrated force that essentially has all it needs for a sustained fight on the ground.
And I don't want to sound like a broken record or an asshole, to me its just interesting, but if marines are so good at long-range patrols, they could just send some grunts to check things out, right?

[GLax]

this is getting us places, i can see that already :cantbeli:
we all have our own opinions....let's all be friends again and stop this stupid argument...what do ya say guys? :hug:

agreed...
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f*ckin jarhead :hug: ;)

[Salty Dog]

i'm not going to respond, because it's over. p-)

[USMarine3521]

Like I said, no real hard feelings, we are still on one team, but every time it ends before anything is said. You guys still didn't really answer my questions concerning marines and MEUs.

Ever heard of the "Navy-Marine Corps Team?" The MEU doesn't try to operate seperately from the Navy, nor should it. The whole point of MEU's is an integrated force that essentially has all it needs for a sustained fight on the ground.
And I don't want to sound like a broken record or an asshole, to me its just interesting, but if marines are so good at long-range patrols, they could just send some grunts to check things out, right?

keep in mind it was the jarhead that stopped all this and it was the army dudes who started this. :fork: :fork: :D

[Ratamacue]

And I don't want to sound like a broken record or an asshole, to me its just interesting, but if marines are so good at long-range patrols, they could just send some grunts to check things out, right?

Okay, I was probably wrong about the Rangers thing, so I withdraw that. However, with that said, the grunts don't really need to be trained in LRRP. Every MEU has a recon detachment, which means that if somewhere needs scouting, all you need to do is phone up the Recon detachment and they'll go out there with no real delay.

That was just an attempt to somewhat recover from my defeat :P

[Dmitri]

That's ok, first marines start talking **** about how good they are, then they just stop the conversation when its getting interesting...

[Salty Dog]

this retarded crap is why i come to this site. this and to improve my rank with unnecessary posts ARRRGGGHHHHH! p-) rofl

[Ratamacue]

That's ok, first marines start talking **** about how good they are, then they just stop the conversation when its getting interesting...

It's alright to admit defeat, after all, we're on the same team, right?

[Dmitri]

Okay, I was probably wrong about the Rangers thing, so I withdraw that. However, with that said, the grunts don't really need to be trained in LRRP. Every MEU has a recon detachment, which means that if somewhere needs scouting, all you need to do is phone up the Recon detachment and they'll go out there with no real delay.

That was just an attempt to somewhat recover from my defeat
THANK YOU, I cannot but respect that you could admit to something.

[Salty Dog]

That's ok, first marines start talking **** about how good they are, then they just stop the conversation when its getting interesting...

It's alright to admit defeat, after all, we're on the same team, right?

there's no defeat, and this thread will never end in defeat for either "side" because it is all retarded crap that means jack (no pun intended) especially when we are on the same team and the bullets start flying. there will always be inter service rivalries, and there's nothing we can do about that. but i want you guys to know that i respect your opinions, though i might not agree with them. :hug:

[Dmitri]

Same for me, except Im one of those rivals who likes to REPRESENT :lol:
We'll meet again.............................. ;)

[Ratamacue]

Hasta la vista, baby.

[Dmitri]

Same for me, except Im one of those rivals who likes to REPRESENT :lol:
We'll meet again.............................. ;) :D

[USMarine3521]

That's ok, first marines start talking **** about how good they are, then they just stop the conversation when its getting interesting...


its more like Marines talk about how good they are/the pride they have, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, then the army guys just complain about the Marines that's whats wrong.

Why don't you just let them be proud and accept that? just be proud that your in the army and leave it at that. its kind of like how everyone hates the "yanks" because they think they are so good, its the same thing. You guys are just being french, think about that; FRENCH!!!

so stop complaining :D please?

[Salty Dog]

"that was my plan all along, to post alot and improve my rank, ahahahahaha you losers, bwahahahahaha......ummm...did i say that out loud?"

who says nobody is civil on milphotos anymore?

i love you guys :hug: (in a totally platonic way, in case anyones gonna be a wiseass!)

[IDFM203]

Ok now that you guys are nearing the end of your inter service rivalry pissing match (believe me we have the same **** in the Israeli army) perhaps any one of you can answer these questions that I posted back in page 3.

I repeat
”ok so its this aspect which I need more clearing on. What do you mean by testing. And more importantly when is that testing done?? Say for example you have a 100 people from all types of physical shapes and seizes and different mental capabilities and they all want to be Marines in frontline combat fighter roles (not non-combat roles such as support and other things that are not front line combat fighters), how does the process weed them out and also is it done before one even steps on the bus to boot camp or its done after the 13 weeks???

In other words it sounds like to me so far that everyone that applies is accepted into the Marines and only after 13 weeks, do they weed out who goes where and if they even are able to continue as Marines.

Also can anyone explain in greater detail how the ASVAB test works and what it consists of exactly.”

P.S. I really enjoyed this pissing match between both sides for now my respect for both services has been taken down a notch ;) (I am kidding, but I am sure you get my point about arguing these things on a international forum)

Shalom :D

[Dmitri]

Wow dude, slow down, my last quote was friendly, I was just kidding around.
BUT..... the problem is marines are just overly proud, and now these young kids here think that they are some kind of SF. I take pride in the Army, but please notice that whatever they do there is never cockiness about it. Honestly, I would never care about NONE of this s$$t if I wouldn't start reading some of the posts around here.

[Dmitri]

Also can anyone explain in greater detail how the ASVAB test works and what it consists of exactly.”
It just measures some of you IQ abilities and your general mechanical, mathematical and other subject knowledge. But consider this, I didn't know JACK about mechanics and had 90 percentile, so it is just common sense stuff.

In other words it sounds like to me so far that everyone that applies is accepted into the Marines and only after 13 weeks, do they weed out who goes where and if they even are able to continue as MarinesNo widding out, mainly people who leave are those who don't make PT tests, AWOLs and injuries. Isn't that right marines?

[Salty Dog]

yes. people that cannot hack it mentally (FTA: failure to adapt, is one of the many mental reasons for attrition), and people who can't hack it physically, wether they are injured, or just cannot do the things asked of them. hope that clears some things up for you. i'm glad WE (yes, marines and army) could clear things up for you.

[NcDeuce]

You Marine guys should like this...


Defense Secretary William J. Perry knows his budget will be halved by the year 2000, leaving us with a broken defense machine. The Pentagon has got to trim now to be able to fight later.

Perry should find out how the Corps can do so much with so little, and ask: Why do Marine pilots sleep in tents next to their planes while Air Force pilots live downtown in plush hotels? Why does the Army have 200 major generals for only ten divisions? Why do Marine sergeants serve as navigators aboard Marine C-130 aircraft while majors do the same job in the Air Force? Why does the Corps have one officer to every nine Marines when the Air Force ratio is 1 to 4, the Army 1 to 5 and the Navy 1 to 6? Why does the Pentagon have more people now for a force of only 1.6 million than it had in 1945, when the force was 13 million?

The Corps is one hell of a defense bargain. Pound for pound, in these days when cost-effectiveness is so critical, the Corps provides by far the best value at the best price.



DEFENDING AMERICA
David H. Hackworth
March 14, 1995

[USMarine3521]

You Marine guys should like this...


Defense Secretary William J. Perry knows his budget will be halved by the year 2000, leaving us with a broken defense machine. The Pentagon has got to trim now to be able to fight later.

Perry should find out how the Corps can do so much with so little, and ask: Why do Marine pilots sleep in tents next to their planes while Air Force pilots live downtown in plush hotels? Why does the Army have 200 major generals for only ten divisions? Why do Marine sergeants serve as navigators aboard Marine C-130 aircraft while majors do the same job in the Air Force? Why does the Corps have one officer to every nine Marines when the Air Force ratio is 1 to 4, the Army 1 to 5 and the Navy 1 to 6? Why does the Pentagon have more people now for a force of only 1.6 million than it had in 1945, when the force was 13 million?

The Corps is one hell of a defense bargain. Pound for pound, in these days when cost-effectiveness is so critical, the Corps provides by far the best value at the best price.



DEFENDING AMERICA
David H. Hackworth
March 14, 1995

i love it! :D very nice thanks :P and more to brag about now :D

[MarineSniper8541]

OK, are marines, besides scout platoons trained to do Long-Range recon? Are they airborne? Do they even train on the small inflateble boats? Are MEU trained in the mountain and jungle warfare?



HAHA, Dimitri....we got ya!

The answer to all of the above questions is a resounding YES.

That is one thing that the Marine Corps can say about EVERY ONE of its infantry units. Something that the Army has to have different units for each purpose. Units which are trained so much into specializing in only one area that they are not as flexible and adaptable as Marine units. This is one reason why Marine infantry units are always the choice of Army theater commanders for high value/high risk objective lists. (Don't make me embarass you with examples)...bah screw it, I'm on a role...Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm, The Balkans, Somalia, Timor, Central African Republic (which is a land locked nation :lol: ), Afghanistan and Iraq v2.0.

Anyways, to answer your questions in greater detail:

Long range recon- Yes, and not just "familiarization training" As a matter of fact, the Marines have a better deep recon ability than the Army does. It comes in the form of the LAR batallions which can go very deep very fast and then insert recon elements to penetrate even deeper.

Are they airborne- Yes, we have full light infantry airborne capability in the Reconnaisance Batallions (dont confuse with Force Recon)

Do they even train in small boats?- Yes, we have entire infantry companies that specialize in boat operations, complete with their own coxwains and can launch from amphibious platforms over the horizon, which the ARMY CAN NOT DO :lol: Marine infantry boat companies can even launch from Submarine platforms.

Are MEU trained in jungle and mountain warfare?- Yes, ever hear of a not so tiny spot of land called the Marine Corps mountain warfare center and school? Are you forgetting that jungle warfare has been a Marine Corps specialty since before Vietnam?

And to smear more salt in the wound, the companies that specialize in these operations are all a part of the same batallion and can take over any of the other batallion's missions at any time. They are not locked into their specialty like Army units are. One deployment, Alpha 1/6 may be the helo raid company, the next deployment, it may be the track or boat company.

When a MEU deploys, its core is a Marine infantry batallion. The three rifle companies in that batallion consist of one that specializes in Air-assault (note that we do not run around sporting little pansy badges with winged helos on them), one that specializes in boat raids not only in rubber zodiacs but also in rigid raiders and riverine craft, and one that specializes in mechanized amphibious operations that can penetrate deep and transition to traditional light mech infantry (ever notice the Marine amtracks in Bagdahd?)

No Army infantry unit has the well rounded and versatile training that Marine infantry does. The most unique infantry unit the Army has to offer is the 18th Airborne Corps, which can only support itself for 48-72 hours before it must be either relieved or resupplied after it inserts via air drop.


I had respect for marines when I really thought that they do a lot of water operations, and I thought that was what made them stand-out, but since that is not really true there is nothing else attractive about it.

I wont even honor that comment with a response other than to say that that was a very ignorant comment. It appears that you are simpy ignorant as to what it is that Marines really do...as well as what they are ..and hang on now...be listening...what they are capable of if needed
There is a reason that all Marine infantry bases are located adjacent to the ocean. If you don't think Marines do water based operations very often, you need to re-educate yourself.

[MarineSniper8541]

Jack,

The reason the Army always stays and the Marines leave is that the Marines are shock-infantry. They are attackers, not an occupation force.

The Marines will always participate in the offensive phase of operations. When the operation transitions into an occupation phase, the Marines pull out and refit in order to re-deploy as a ready force.

It has long been an doctrinal issue that the Army is used to occupy.
Just think for a bit about recent history. Take the Balkans, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq for example.

[Ratamacue]

Well, actually Sniper, the Marines were the ones used as peacekeepers in Somalia during Restore Hope. I'm not so sure that the Army was used for occupation/peacekeeping in that case, and they only went in with Task Force Ranger in Gothic Serpent. Of course I could be wrong and the Army could have had peacekeepers as well.

[Ratamacue]

Oh yeah, Sniper, you say that Recon is used as a light infantry force. Just curious, but when has this happened? It was my impression that Battalion Recon was almost exclusively tasked with reconnaissance and Force Recon was tasked with recon as well as direct action/CQB.

Are there any cases in which Battalion Recon HAS been used as Light Infantry?

[FallenAngel]

The reason the Army always stays and the Marines leave is that the Marines are shock-infantry. They are attackers, not an occupation force.


This is true. Marines are shock troops who take territory. Once it has been taken, Army troops move in to secure/ occupy the land. During WWII, Marines made the initial beach landings and took most of the island. THen, Army units would come in an conduct mopping up ops while the Marines pulled out and got ready for the next invasion.

As for seeing combat- Marine units fought in most of the southern cities from Basra north to Baghdad. It was my impression that most of the Army's engagements against Rep. Gaurd divisions was mainly armor oriented while Marine infantry units had to take cities like Nasahyria block by block. Doubtless both services performed admirably and had it's moments of hardship, but I would have to think that Marine units saw more action than the 3rd ID. (the 101st followed in the wake of both the 1 MEF and 3rd ID)

As for Afghanistan....I believe it's been mentioned more than once on this board that the decision to keep Marines largely out of the war was a political one (made by Army Generals) and in no way reflects the abilities of the Corps to fight- infact many Army units went through the Marine mountain warfare school to familiarize themselves with the high altitudes of Afghanistan before being deployed.

[Roger Rabbit]

There is a good book written on the Marines in IRaq called "The March Up" its by some ex-Marine and some guy called Bing something or other. When i get home will give the full title and names of authors.

[Ballistic]

Nice ad, love the music in it. Very stirring and patriotic.

Any ideas on the music ?? What it's from ? Who wrote it ? Written for the ad specifically ??

[Javehn]

What is going on here , dudes ? Ok , i understand you , this is the same on all armies . But keep it between yourself. Marines and army troops have the different job , hence the different training , that's all > But i am just want to know some answer on IDFM203's questions . I also have another question :
I understand that marine have the same training for everybody there , even for cook or tank mechanic . This is different in the army ?
Second , 13 weeks of basic sounds kinda short... Can you specify what is it ?

IDFM203 , i don't think the are listenning now.
Maybe we should start also pissing on competition ??
"Where is all that infantry sitting ?? They all under my tracks fitting..." :backhand: ;)

[Jack Mehoff]

Speaking of amphibious assault, U.S. Army participated in one of the largest amphibious assault in HISTORY. The largest airborne invasion also done by the Army. Can you take a guess where?

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/d-day/d-day_qm.jpg

[Jack Mehoff]

The reason the Army always stays and the Marines leave is that the Marines are shock-infantry. They are attackers, not an occupation force.


This is true. Marines are shock troops who take territory. Once it has been taken, Army troops move in to secure/ occupy the land. During WWII, Marines made the initial beach landings and took most of the island. THen, Army units would come in an conduct mopping up ops while the Marines pulled out and got ready for the next invasion.



Huh? I thought the Marines fought in the Pacific and U.S. Army fought in Europe and north Africa. I didn't see any Marines in Omaha and Utah beach during D Day. Do you?



As for Afghanistan....I believe it's been mentioned more than once on this board that the decision to keep Marines largely out of the war was a political one (made by Army Generals) and in no way reflects the abilities of the Corps to fight- infact many Army units went through the Marine mountain warfare school to familiarize themselves with the high altitudes of Afghanistan before being deployed.

Repeat after me: "U.S. ARMY TRAINING FOR HIGH ALTITUDE TRAINING IS IN FORT CARSON AND FORT DRUM"

If you want to talk about using whose facility, USMC 'borrows' and received training more from the Army than the other way around. Force Recon received their training from U.S. Army Ranger school and sometimes Special Forces school, airborne school. Hell, i even saw Marines in Fort Sill using Army's facility and equipments for their red leg.

[IDFM203]

IDFM203 , i don't think the are listenning now.
Maybe we should start also pissing on competition ??
"Where is all that infantry sitting ?? They all under my tracks fitting..." :backhand: ;) heheh nice joke ;) .......but I am not going to get into it with you. I mean first of all, In the IDF the rivalries are between different units in infantry way before we even look at the tanks units (ooooooh “DJ IDFM203” has done it again ;) :hug: ) I mean just look at these two sides here (Marines Vs. army) that have tried to bring each others service down a bit on a international forum.

“kol hakovad le’ Tzahal”!!! that’s all that should be said on a international forum!!!


shalom :D

[NcDeuce]

You Marine guys should like this...


Defense Secretary William J. Perry knows his budget will be halved by the year 2000, leaving us with a broken defense machine. The Pentagon has got to trim now to be able to fight later.

Perry should find out how the Corps can do so much with so little, and ask: Why do Marine pilots sleep in tents next to their planes while Air Force pilots live downtown in plush hotels? Why does the Army have 200 major generals for only ten divisions? Why do Marine sergeants serve as navigators aboard Marine C-130 aircraft while majors do the same job in the Air Force? Why does the Corps have one officer to every nine Marines when the Air Force ratio is 1 to 4, the Army 1 to 5 and the Navy 1 to 6? Why does the Pentagon have more people now for a force of only 1.6 million than it had in 1945, when the force was 13 million?

The Corps is one hell of a defense bargain. Pound for pound, in these days when cost-effectiveness is so critical, the Corps provides by far the best value at the best price.



DEFENDING AMERICA
David H. Hackworth
March 14, 1995

i love it! :D very nice thanks :P and more to brag about now :D

;)

[Javehn]

Yes , IDFM , i hear you
They still won't answer us ...

[Dmitri]

Ok marinesniper, as usual your ignorance prohibited you from remembering that:82nd, Rangers, Delta (which is ARMY) and SEALs participated in Panama and Grenada also, in Somalia all the action was done by Rangers, 10th mountain and Delta, mots of Afghanistan was won by airstrikes, Brits, 82nd, 101st, and SF (what happened to marines, did noone want them?? :( ), in Iraq v2.0, like I said, Army contributed way more troops, they definatly went through many towns too, don't know much about Desert Storm, but plenty of army was there also, and even my NG unit was in Bosnia, not to mention active duty army.
Oops, looks like you just embarassed yourself :oops: But its ok, you can still brag to some other kids who don't know ****. woot


The answer to all of the above questions is a resounding YES.
Are you sure??? We were compraring MEU to Rangers, because you guys think they are on the par, so the question was if EVERY grunt in MEU gets airborne, jungle, mountain, long-range recon patrol and air-assault training?
Speaking of Air Assault: marines don't go through school where they learn how to set up LZs, transoprt equipment with helos with slings, tie all kind of cool knots, plus all kind of obstacle courses and road marches, not to forget the actual repelling. So when they go through that school, then they may wear that badge.

The most unique infantry unit the Army has to offer is the 18th Airborne Corps, which can only support itself for 48-72 hours before it must be either relieved or resupplied after it inserts via air drop.
Exactly, they can get to the place faster, because they don't just cruize in on the plane, most of the JUMP, which means there is so much supplies that can be droped also. If the whole Division rolls in with all the equipment necessary, they would be no need for resupply soon.

[Jack Mehoff]

mots of Afghanistan was won by airstrikes, Brits, 82nd, 101st, and SF (what happened to marines, did noone want them?? ),

Yo, what about the 10th Mountain boys in Afghanistan? :|

[Dmitri]

Oh yeah, my bad, of course 10th mountain was there kicking ass too!

[GLax]

something interesting about the 18th Airborne Corp... one of my recruiters was in the 3ID a few yrs ago before he got voluntold to be a recruiter... i asked him one day why he was jump qualified... he told me almost 80% of the 3ID is jump qualified. one question for Jack or Dmitri, does the Army put the majority of its jump qualified people in the 18th? it would make sence to me because 3 out of the 4 Divisions are light infantry or Paratroopers... (10th Mtn., 82nd Abn, 101st Abn.)

[NcDeuce]

Marines had KIA in Somalia, not as well known because of a book called Black Hawk Down.

It wasn't a
in somalia, they didn't mess with the marines, and then when the marines left, the **** hit the fan. thing. It was a change in our goverment which changed tactics/goals/etc.


82nd, Rangers, Delta (which is ARMY) and SEALs participated in Panama and Grenada also

Yup...
Special Forces, Delta Force, 75th Ranger Regiment, 160th SOAR, Navy SEALS, Air Force Special Operations, 82nd Airborne Division all got a taste of those conflicts.

[Apogee]

25th is going to A-stan as well

[FallenAngel]

The reason the Army always stays and the Marines leave is that the Marines are shock-infantry. They are attackers, not an occupation force.


This is true. Marines are shock troops who take territory. Once it has been taken, Army troops move in to secure/ occupy the land. During WWII, Marines made the initial beach landings and took most of the island. THen, Army units would come in an conduct mopping up ops while the Marines pulled out and got ready for the next invasion.



Huh? I thought the Marines fought in the Pacific and U.S. Army fought in Europe and north Africa. I didn't see any Marines in Omaha and Utah beach during D Day. Do you?



As for Afghanistan....I believe it's been mentioned more than once on this board that the decision to keep Marines largely out of the war was a political one (made by Army Generals) and in no way reflects the abilities of the Corps to fight- infact many Army units went through the Marine mountain warfare school to familiarize themselves with the high altitudes of Afghanistan before being deployed.

Repeat after me: "U.S. ARMY TRAINING FOR HIGH ALTITUDE TRAINING IS IN FORT CARSON AND FORT DRUM"

If you want to talk about using whose facility, USMC 'borrows' and received training more from the Army than the other way around. Force Recon received their training from U.S. Army Ranger school and sometimes Special Forces school, airborne school. Hell, i even saw Marines in Fort Sill using Army's facility and equipments for their red leg.

As for WWII history...don't be a smartass Jack. Did I mention anything about Europe in my post? No- therefore I was only talking about the pacific (the fact that I said "islands" should have given that one away :D ).

I realize that the Army- by need of necessity- conducted some fine amhibious ops. North Africa, Southern France and Sicily were pretty easy coming ashore- the real fighting was inland. Anzio was a major cluster-f*ck though. Normandy could have easy been the biggest disaster in military history if Rommel had his Panzer divisions in Cale released and crushed the beach head in the first few hours. As it were they only had two real German divisions facing them- one of which was the inexperianced 12th SS Hitlerjugend. It wasn't until 2 days later when the veteran 2nd SS Das Riech division reached the zone did the Germans have a really effective force in the area.

Army units also came ashore at Leyete and Okinawa on Marine-taken beachheads and fought bravely along side their Marine bretheren. If that was merely to get MacArthur's hand in the cookie jar and boost his ego is a matter of opinion, but they fought well.

As for who uses who's stuff. Obviously I am mistaken, I must have gotten the services mixed up. Perhaps the need for the USMC to use so much Army equipment now-and-then has to do with the Marines getting the shaft every year when it comes to the budget.

However, you have a very condecending and aggressive tone which makes me think you're an asshole. If someone's wrong, then politiely correct them- I doubt they make such mistakes on purpose for the sole reason of pissing you off. This forum used to be a place where civil and non-heated debates occured where information was traded openly for everyone's benifit- not to boost some ex-army guy's ego (or vice versa). Granted some inter-service rivalry exists, however as Rat has stated more than once, we're all on the same side. You start acting like some immature child saying his wee-wee is bigger- you're only going to hurt the team. But it's OK- I've encountered alot of people like you so far in my short life and I am sure I will encounter plenty more and that fact makes it easier for me to tolerate it. :hug:

And, I'd just like to say that what I just said about Jack can apply to MANY of the people here nowadays. Xasa, Rat, JiJo, Tane, etc. know what I am talking about- this forum has gone to **** in the past few months because people have to always be right and aren't very nice in supplying information to everyone else for everyone's benifit. Let's try and act like adults around here shall we?

[Apogee]

And, I'd just like to say that what I just said about Jack can apply to MANY of the people here nowadays. Xasa, Rat, JiJo, Tane, etc. know what I am talking about- this forum has gone to **** in the past few months because people have to always be right and aren't very nice in supplying information to everyone else for everyone's benifit. Let's try and act like adults around here shall we?

Amen to that. Used to be some really great threads way back when. But now its either Jack posting pictures of himself or hitting on Nawlins or someone doing a line by line post. When does it end? I wish we could go back to the good ol' days when there was only one forum and lots of intelligent users.

[FallenAngel]

It will only end when Hood bans everyone who's joined the forum since the good ol' days! :D

[Jack Mehoff]

Amen to that. Used to be some really great threads way back when. But now its either Jack posting pictures of himself or hitting on Nawlins or someone doing a line by line post. When does it end? I wish we could go back to the good ol' days when there was only one forum and lots of intelligent users.

That would be Joe :lol:

[Dmitri]

something interesting about the 18th Airborne Corp... one of my recruiters was in the 3ID a few yrs ago before he got voluntold to be a recruiter... i asked him one day why he was jump qualified... he told me almost 80% of the 3ID is jump qualified.That can't be true, I am at Ft. Stewart almost every month, and may be only every third person has some kind of a patch, not all airborne of course. And that is considering that 3rd ID have their own Ranger and Airborne units. Definately not 80%. There is not even that much infantry there. Airborne school is too expensive to be sending all kind of soldiers for the hell of it.

[GLax]

something interesting about the 18th Airborne Corp... one of my recruiters was in the 3ID a few yrs ago before he got voluntold to be a recruiter... i asked him one day why he was jump qualified... he told me almost 80% of the 3ID is jump qualified.That can't be true, I am at Ft. Stewart almost every month, and may be only every third person has some kind of a patch, not all airborne of course. And that is considering that 3rd ID have their own Ranger and Airborne units. Definately not 80%. There is not even that much infantry there. Airborne school is too expensive to be sending all kind of soldiers for the hell of it.

true, but consider, my recruiter hasnt been there in 13+ yrs. before the Army got hacked down to its current size today...

[Ratamacue]

Marines had KIA in Somalia, not as well known because of a book called Black Hawk Down.

It wasn't a
in somalia, they didn't mess with the marines, and then when the marines left, the **** hit the fan. thing. It was a change in our goverment which changed tactics/goals/etc.

Actually, that's how it was. When the Marines pulled out, there were no longer any US troops left in Somalia (aside from maybe some SOF or something). Once the US left the area, Aidid declared war on the remaining peacekeepers and things went back to ****. It was after that that TF Ranger was sent it.

[USMarine3521]

and also just remember who guards our commander-in-chief, Marines :D :D :D

[MarineSniper8541]

Dmitri,

Please tell me that you are not trying to educate me as to this topic of coversation. You are simply proving yourself ignorant. Who the f*&k are you anyway? You are just some boot who is not even active duty. You are not even a Reservist. You are just some National Guard probably private or specialist who has never been anywhere other than to different bases to train. You dont know jack as you have proven by both your questions and your incorrect statements not only about the Marines but also about your own service. Isn't it bad when a Marine has to correct a soldier about Army information? Anyways, on with the discussion.

Yes, the Army participated in the campaigns we have discussed but you, once again, over looked what I clearly stated in that even Army theater commanders repeatedly choose Marine units to take high value/high risk targets. How did you miss me saying that? I didnt say anything of the sort regarding the Army not participating in those campaigns, I was addressing the issue of objectives and who the ARMY theater commanders assigned to them. Don't you find it strange that more than just a few Army theater commanders have repeatedly chosen Marines over Army units to be the ones to take the most critical objectives?

It was the Marines who had the task of securing St. Georges University where the American students (the reason for the operation) were trapped in Grenada
It was the Marines who laid siege to Noriega's compound and also were assigned the difficult task of the port facility and loch facility siezures in Panama.
It was the Marines who conducted the reconnaissance in force operations around Bihac in the Balkans.
It was the Marines who were given the task of going "mech" and traveling through Macedonia to be the first troops to intervene in the Kosovo campaign. Why didnt they just drop in the 82nd? :oops:
It was the Marines who conducted the first batallion sized cordon and search in Mogadishu since the Vietnam war, why didnt they use 10th Mountain which was already there at the time? I was there, 10th Mountain was busy with working parties loading grain onto UN trucks and standing guard duty inside the airport compound, we laughed our asses off. :lol:
It was the Marines who saw more action and got into more firefights than the Army in Somalia. (Black Hawk Down has screened out what all of the other units in Somalia did, including other Army units) Ever hear of the ambush of FAST company at the K-4 traffic circle? The ambush of 2nd Platoon, Fox 2/9 south of the Bakara Market? How dare you say "All the action was done by Rangers" :lol: What an assinine, stupid and ignorant comment.

Haiti, do I need to remind you what the Marines did there befor the Army relieved them to occupy? Do some research and find out what Echo Company 2/2 was doing when they were ambushed by Haitians, took no casualties but killed 11 Hatians and filled 12 body bags, one of which was body parts.

Desert Storm, did you miss the briefing by Schwartzkopf where he explained how the Marines had the most difficult and important job of taking Kuwait city, were the fist coalition troops through the breach and how one company of Marines held off two Iraqi armored regiments at Kafji?

Afghanistan, Hello...McFly...Who was it that the Army relieved at the different bases all over Afghanistan? Let me give you a hint, it wasn't the Civil Air Patrol.

Iraqi Freedom, I'm not going to entertain your ignorance with that one other than to say you need to learn a lot more about what Task Force Tarawa did and how important thier job was that... :lol: once again, was assigned to them by Tommy Franks who is...yes...an ARMY general. Care to explain to me why 1st Bn 2nd Marines took more casualties before reaching Bagdhad that any other coalition unit? And please dont demean yourself by saying they were incompitent.

Enough with that. Next issue.


Are you sure??? We were compraring MEU to Rangers, because you guys think they are on the par, so the question was if EVERY grunt in MEU gets airborne, jungle, mountain, long-range recon patrol and air-assault training?
Speaking of Air Assault: marines don't go through school where they learn how to set up LZs, transoprt equipment with helos with slings, tie all kind of cool knots, plus all kind of obstacle courses and road marches, not to forget the actual repelling. So when they go through that school, then they may wear that badge.

OMG how stupid are you???!!!!
YES, EVERY Marine infantry unit gets all of that training with the acception of airborne. For jungle training, we go/went to Panama and the P.I.. For mountain training, units are sent to Bridgeport California to the Mountain warfare training center which also has arctic conditions in the winter (and is at a higher altitude than Ft. Drum). Also, our units have "Assault Climbers" that can conduct steep incline ascent operations and raids as well as get untrained US and foreign units up steep slopes to conduct operations.

As far as Air assault training, that Army school has nothing that Marines dont do in a Helo company. Yes, we all know how to set up an LZ, we know our T's and our international Y's. We know how much space and what max angles an LZ needs to have to accomodate all of our different Helos. Do you think that Marines dont have obstacle courses or do humps? :lol: Ever hear of a MACRES which is a 25 mile hump in full gear including heavy weapons that has to be completed with an 80 pound fighting load by the entire batallion in 7 hours or less? That's faster than a 3 mile an hour pace which is not easy to sustain with that kind of a load for that distance. And yes, we do a **** LOAD of rappelling and fast roping. As a matter of fact, ask any Army HRST master from an Air Assault unit what branch of service invented the SPIE and Fast Rope...I dont think you will be happy with the answer. :D

All of that and we still do not need silly little badges pasted all over our uniforms ever time we attend some school. You guys wear more badges than the Boy Scouts. :slap:

Seriously though, you need to learn more about what it is that Rangers do other than watching movies. Rangers operate generally in company sized operations. The typical Ranger operation will be centered around the a company which will conduct raids and other operations such as reconnaissance in force, air field siezure, port facility siezure etc etc. Which is EXACTLY what Marine infantry units assigned to a MEU do. Yes, I admit they are different, but the raw capabilities in regards to the types of operations are generally the same.


Exactly, they can get to the place faster, because they don't just cruize in on the plane, most of the JUMP, which means there is so much supplies that can be droped also. If the whole Division rolls in with all the equipment necessary, they would be no need for resupply soon.
WRONG Have you forgotten what happened to the 82nd in Desert Storm? Guess who those supplies you mentioned came from? YUP the Marines had to save their asses by allowing them to take supplies off of our MPS ships that were meant for Marine units because the 82nd's logistical system was failing. They docked our ships and put food, water and ammo on the trucks that the MPS ships had and loaned them to the Army....now ain't that just nifty? rofl

Jack,
I'm not sure as to the basis of your comment or what you really meant by the "no Marines at D-Day" thing. The Army did not have the amphibious capability that the Marines had until early 1944 when the Army started to recieve shipments of the Higgins boats. The Army had no means to do what the Marines did in the Pacific. It was an issue of capability. Ever hear of Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Saipan, etc etc? Have you ever taken the time to read about what happened in some of those battles? Ever learn anything about the tenacity of the Japanese or how 5,000 Marines died in just the first day?
Trust me, Jack, the Marines have had their D-Day. They have had more D-Days than just the June 6th that the Army toots its horn about. Just beause it was the largest amphibious operation and the beginning of the liberation of Europe does not mean that it was any more difficult of a fight to the grunt on the ground than what was being faught by the Marines...AND the Army in the Pacific.

[Magua]

That was a damn good response, MarineSniper.

Semper Fi

[FallenAngel]

That's another thing you learn in the Marines- how to thoroughly tear someone up one side and down the other. ;)



Afghanistan, Hello...McFly...

rofl rofl rofl

Classic :D


All of that and we still do not need silly little badges pasted all over our uniforms ever time we attend some school. You guys wear more badges than the Boy Scouts.


Apart from being hilarious, I must say that although I know that Marines do not wear any unit patches and that this has something to do with all Marines being equal marines (i.e.- a truck driver is no more or no less important than a grunt to the corps) but is there something more to this- longstanding tradition perhaps?

[Dmitri]

Who the f*&k are you anyway?Same quesion for you brother, but you kinda guessed right about me.


You are not even a ReservistHaha, how stupid.. did you know reserves have none or few combat units? National guard has roughly1/2 of army's combat units, including planes and SF.


It was the Marines who had the task of securing St. Georges University where the American students (the reason for the operation) were trapped in Grenada Man, are you retarded? Who cares who freakin' secured the students, read and find out who did the hardest action. So now you are trying to tell me that they chose marines over Delta, and SEAL Team 6 and two Ranger Battalions that parachuted in to do the main and hardest action? Get down to earth!

It was the Marines who laid siege to Noriega's compound and also were assigned the difficult task of the port facility and loch facility siezures in Panama. Same situation with panama.

once again, over looked what I clearly statedI heard that, I just don't agree with you.

Even if Generals said that themselves, don't forget that Delta and Team 6 were supposed to be classified at that time.

I was there, 10th Mountain was busy with working parties loading grain onto UN trucks and standing guard duty inside the airport compound, we laughed our asses offOh, ok, like marines never do peacekeeping operations!

Afghanistan, Hello...McFly...Who was it that the Army relieved at the different bases all over Afghanistan? Let me give you a hint, it wasn't the Civil Air Patrol.

Earth to marines, first of all, army SF was there loooong-long time before marines were even thinking about going there. They were having casualties way before the main conflict started, and probably did some of the most important operations there.
And what happened with rooting out of the taliban? I didn't hear much about marines searching caves and strongholds, although they probably did some. Most of it was done by 101, 82nd, and 10th. But I was thinking most of this time that marines were the best shock and raid troops.

Iraqi Freedom, I'm not going to entertain your ignorance with that one other than to say you need to learn a lot more about what Task Force Tarawa did and how important thier job was that... once again, was assigned to them by Tommy Franks who is...yes...an ARMY generalOk, may be they were, but that WAS NOT THE ONLY THING that happened in the war. Have you ever heard about the March on Tikrit? No? That was half the war right there, for some reason no marines participated. :roll:

Another thing is, I personally heard from Green Berets about how they had to save marines' asses as they were guarding the emabassys. Stories that you might never hear, or at least not hear on TV. How they had to do the recon for marines who were about to storm the embassys. Where are all those recon skills, with those super grunts they would not even need the Force from what it sounds?

YES, EVERY Marine infantry unit gets all of that training with the acception of airborne. For jungle training, we go/went to Panama and the P.I..
Listen, how often do they go there? Once every 2-4 years? Even my unit goes to places like California for Desert warfare, Kansas, we are about to have an excercise of assaulting the Ranger Town in Ft. Bennign from choppers... But that is familiarization training, it doesn't make you an expert in it. All the combat batallions in the Army do it, but unit excersises are quite different from the actual in depth schools.

[NcDeuce]

Anyways...what a commercial, eh?

[Royal]

It was the Marines who conducted the reconnaissance in force operations around Bihac in the Balkans.


When exactly?

UNPROFOR ceased to exist on 21st December 1995, and was replaced by IFOR. The USA had no official involvement on the ground during the UNPROFOR period. The western sector of what is now MNB(SW) (including Bihac) was taken on by 2LI BG. They quickly handed over to Canadians from the PPCLI (I forget which Bn) and a Czech Airbourne unit (again I forget the designation). UK JCO's and FHT's continued to operate in the Bihac area for some time after that. There were also a limited number of US Army SF (5th I think) in the area for a time.

The only action by the USMC I can recollect in the area is the extraction of Scott O'Grady (since made into an excrable bearing no relation to reality).

[GLax]

oh dear, Royal Marines are getting into it now... ;)

anyway, from what i can gather, Dmitri is trying to say, its great you have pride, Soldiers have pride too, but its gets annoying and old after awhile. have pride, but dont try and shove it on everybody else. any educated person realises you cant win the 'my daddy could beat up your daddy' arguement, simply because the 2 daddys dont fight. you can hacve pride and not hollar and scream about it, its perfectly fine. and like somebody said, quiet professionals...

[MarineSniper8541]

Dmitri,


You are trying to compare Delta and SEALs operations to that of what the Marines did. Two totally different operational capabilities and missions. Are you still as ignorant as I have figured you to be in that you are comparing small special op units to full size combat line units?

Don't confuse difficult objectives in places like the aifield and the harbor in Panama that were assigned to SOCOM units with objectives assigned to line battalions. You are comparing apples to oranges. Also, you are wrong about Grenada. The Marines took all of their assigned objectives in Grenada then took half of those that had been assigned to the Army because they Army was moving too slow. That is a fact and not just a statement. You not knowing that, once again...does not surprise me.

Someone on this forum even uses as a signature the quote from the pissed off Army commander in Grenada who made a comment about his anger regarding how the Army units were bogged down with only light resistance while the Marines were running rampant all over the island rolling over all of the resistance they met.


I didn't hear much about marines searching caves and strongholds, although they probably did some. Most of it was done by 101, 82nd, and 10th. But I was thinking most of this time that marines were the best shock and raid troops.

That's because when operation Anaconda started and the cave searching began, the Marines had already been relieved by the Army units that were new in country. Once again, your ignorance of facts shines through.
rofl


Listen, how often do they go there? Once every 2-4 years?

No, actually they go very often. Every unit will have attended all of that training before going on a new deployment. They have to, it is a requirement and they cant pass SOC qualification if they don't. They spend a full month doing each one. Ever hear of a tiny little piece of land that covers 1/4 of the entire northern Mojave desert called the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center in 29 Palms? Ever hear of places like Okinawa and Hawaii? Last time I checked, or should I say...was ACTUALLY THERE, those places, which have Marine units permanently stationed there, have up to tripple canopy jungles. I already mentioned Bridgeport.

And don't think I didnt notice your lack of response to my information on the MACRES humps.

Well, there's 3 times in a row that I have rebutted all of your inaccurate statements with facts and information that you were ignorant of. Shall we continue this or do you think that just maybe your 2 or so years (maybe less?) in the National Guard need to be bolstered with a little more experience and knowledge before you try to compare to my 10 1/2 years in the Corps as a Scout/Sniper?

I have been on half of the operations we have been talking about. Where have you been? You are nothing more than a 50 yard line spectator who thinks he knows everything and is spewing all kinds of trash about the Marine Corps when in fact you are way way mis-informed and have formulated your inaccurate opinion of the Marine Corps out of pure ignorance.

[MarineSniper8541]

Royal,


The USA had no official involvement on the ground during the UNPROFOR period.

Pay attention to that word...official.

You said it, I didnt. ;)

Just because the US had no units attached to UNPROFOR does not mean we were not there. Hell I could show you pictures of my 1993 deployment if I had a damn scanner but I dont. 22nd MEU, comprised of BLT 1/8 (my unit at the time), HMM-162 (helos), Echo 2/10(arty), Alpha 2nd AAV Bn.(tracks), et al. Deployed to the Balkans and Somalia during LF6F Med. deployment August 1993 to February 1994. Aboard the USS Guadalcanal, USS Shreveport and USS Portland.


The only action by the USMC I can recollect in the area is the extraction of Scott O'Grady (since made into an excrable bearing no relation to reality).

WOW, I didnt know you went on that mission?!! And to think that the whole time, I was thinking that you were making an ill-informed comment based upon information you had only seen on TV or read about then formulated your own opinion!
Thank's for clearing it up for me that the story that has been told bears no relation to reality! Which one of the 53s were you on? I was in the hangar bay helping them prep and I dont remember seeing any Brits going onto the flight deck when I watched the TRAP force from Weapons Company 3/8 load up onto the birds!
Were you there on an exchange program or something? Damn, I talked to all of those guys when they got back onboard and the stories they told me were EXACTLY as it has been represented. I guess I should have stopped you after you got off the helo and asked you to tell me your version.
rofl

[TriggerPuller]

The Marines were originally formed in 1775 for security/sharpshooting aboard Naval vessels as well as amphibious assaults. However, until the Spanish-American War in 1898, they were rarely used on the ground. Today they mostly exist because to disband them would cause quite an uproar, and the Marines are also considered by some to have the greatest fighting prowess simply because Marine boot camp is basically meant to turn you into a killing machine.

While there are units in the Army that are similar to Marines, they don't have the same tenacity in combat nor really the same role. The Army has heavy infantry units (i.e. 3rd Inf. Division) and light infantry units (i.e. 101st Abn., 10th Mtn., 75th Rangers). The Marines are more of a shock infantry. Also, the Marines today have the capability to project an entire task force from sea to land. Each Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) or MEU(SOC) is a 2000-man MAGTF (Marine Air-Ground Task Force) and is normally made up of infantry units, transport helos, gunship helos, tanks, and AV-8B Harriers. They're not considered SOF but arguably are on par with Rangers in terms of training.

In addition, an MEU--if in a close enough area--can have its entire body deployed within 6 hours notice.Why the hell are people who have not spent one day in my beloved Corps speaking on subjects on which they have no idea or have read from some book or manual. you and the Mrine DEp kid need to refrain from any answers from which you have not been personally involved in. both of your answers are BS in most of it's content. FYI Iam an Infantry and Reconaissance Marine(former). I cant belive some of the stuff I am hearing from this thread. BRC is not 16 weeks! Certain Marines do not go to jump school just for the hell of it and MEU(soc) marines are not condidered SOF. But the new Marine Det-1 fellas are(86 man detachment). only marines who have BTDT should answer questions from the newbies not you wannabes.

Brown,K SSGT U.S.M.C.

BTW Soar160th or whatever, I dont like you much either young man. You probably dont have what it takes to be one of us so STFU!!!!!!!

[Dmitri]

Ever hear of a MACRES which is a 25 mile hump in full gear including heavy weapons that has to be completed with an 80 pound fighting load by the entire batallion in 7 hours or less?No, never heard of it. When I was referring to the obstacle courses and road march, I was putting it in the context of the air assault school, meaning that rapelling wasn't the only damn thing they do to qualify. Otherwise I am sure active duty have their own company-batallion level marches and tests. I know for a fact that 82nd marches EVERYWHERE it goes, so pretty much you got a different length of roadmarch each day.
Here is a quote for you to clear up some events in Grenada. I wasn't there, don't know if you were, but I don't think that "Federation of American Scientists" would lie:

At 0534 the first Rangers began dropping at Salines, and less than two hours elapsed from the first drop until the last unit was on the ground, shortly after seven in the morning. After the rangers had secured the runway, 800 more troops would land, freeing the rangers to press northward where they were to secure the safety of American medical students and bring under control the capital of St. Georges. At the end of the first day in Grenada, the Rangers had secured the airfield and True Blue Campus at a cost of five dead and six wounded. Once the Rangers had secured the runway, elements of the 82nd Airborne Division landed, and late in the evening of the 26th the 82d Division's 3d Brigade began to deploy across the island. In the north, 400 Marines would land and rescue the small airport at Pearls.


You are trying to compare Delta and SEALs operations to that of what the Marines did. Two totally different operational capabilities and missions. Are you still as ignorant as I have figured you to be in that you are comparing small special op units to full size combat line units?

No, I am just trying to make sure you realize what you are saying. When you first brought this up, you said "marines did this, did that", it just sounds like everytime you say it they saved the day. I am just trying to point out YOUR blind ignorance and overwhelming pride.

They spend a full month doing each one. Ever hear of a tiny little piece of land that covers 1/4 of the entire northern Mojave desert called the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center in 29 Palms? Ever hear of places like Okinawa and Hawaii? Last time I checked, or should I say...was ACTUALLY THERE, those places, which have Marine units permanently stationed there, have up to tripple canopy jungles. I already mentioned Bridgeport.
Bla-bla, believe me it is not just you who does it. These things that I believe you're talking about are the likes of JRTC and NTC, which EVERYONE has to go through before any deployment, depending on the area. So with all your experience you still didn't open a new world for me.

[Salty Dog]

The Marines were originally formed in 1775 for security/sharpshooting aboard Naval vessels as well as amphibious assaults. However, until the Spanish-American War in 1898, they were rarely used on the ground. Today they mostly exist because to disband them would cause quite an uproar, and the Marines are also considered by some to have the greatest fighting prowess simply because Marine boot camp is basically meant to turn you into a killing machine.

While there are units in the Army that are similar to Marines, they don't have the same tenacity in combat nor really the same role. The Army has heavy infantry units (i.e. 3rd Inf. Division) and light infantry units (i.e. 101st Abn., 10th Mtn., 75th Rangers). The Marines are more of a shock infantry. Also, the Marines today have the capability to project an entire task force from sea to land. Each Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) or MEU(SOC) is a 2000-man MAGTF (Marine Air-Ground Task Force) and is normally made up of infantry units, transport helos, gunship helos, tanks, and AV-8B Harriers. They're not considered SOF but arguably are on par with Rangers in terms of training.

In addition, an MEU--if in a close enough area--can have its entire body deployed within 6 hours notice.Why the hell are people who have not spent one day in my beloved Corps speaking on subjects on which they have no idea or have read from some book or manual. you and the Mrine DEp kid need to refrain from any answers from which you have not been personally involved in. both of your answers are BS in most of it's content. FYI Iam an Infantry and Reconaissance Marine(former). I cant belive some of the stuff I am hearing from this thread. BRC is not 16 weeks! Certain Marines do not go to jump school just for the hell of it and MEU(soc) marines are not condidered SOF. But the new Marine Det-1 fellas are(86 man detachment). only marines who have BTDT should answer questions from the newbies not you wannabes.

Brown,K SSGT U.S.M.C.

BTW Soar160th or whatever, I dont like you much either young man. You probably dont have what it takes to be one of us so STFU!!!!!!!

Yeah, all you wannabe's gotta shut up!......aw crap..... :petting:

[USMarine3521]

The Marines were originally formed in 1775 for security/sharpshooting aboard Naval vessels as well as amphibious assaults. However, until the Spanish-American War in 1898, they were rarely used on the ground. Today they mostly exist because to disband them would cause quite an uproar, and the Marines are also considered by some to have the greatest fighting prowess simply because Marine boot camp is basically meant to turn you into a killing machine.

While there are units in the Army that are similar to Marines, they don't have the same tenacity in combat nor really the same role. The Army has heavy infantry units (i.e. 3rd Inf. Division) and light infantry units (i.e. 101st Abn., 10th Mtn., 75th Rangers). The Marines are more of a shock infantry. Also, the Marines today have the capability to project an entire task force from sea to land. Each Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) or MEU(SOC) is a 2000-man MAGTF (Marine Air-Ground Task Force) and is normally made up of infantry units, transport helos, gunship helos, tanks, and AV-8B Harriers. They're not considered SOF but arguably are on par with Rangers in terms of training.

In addition, an MEU--if in a close enough area--can have its entire body deployed within 6 hours notice.Why the hell are people who have not spent one day in my beloved Corps speaking on subjects on which they have no idea or have read from some book or manual. you and the Mrine DEp kid need to refrain from any answers from which you have not been personally involved in. both of your answers are BS in most of it's content. FYI Iam an Infantry and Reconaissance Marine(former). I cant belive some of the stuff I am hearing from this thread. BRC is not 16 weeks! Certain Marines do not go to jump school just for the hell of it and MEU(soc) marines are not condidered SOF. But the new Marine Det-1 fellas are(86 man detachment). only marines who have BTDT should answer questions from the newbies not you wannabes.

Brown,K SSGT U.S.M.C.

BTW Soar160th or whatever, I dont like you much either young man. You probably dont have what it takes to be one of us so STFU!!!!!!!

*speechless*....... :oops:

[USMarine3521]

Dmitri,
Someone on this forum even uses as a signature the quote from the pissed off Army commander in Grenada who made a comment about his anger regarding how the Army units were bogged down with only light resistance while the Marines were running rampant all over the island rolling over all of the resistance they met.


You mean this one?:

"We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the hell is going on?"
US Army Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., USA, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff
during the assault on Grenada, 1983

my new signature now :D

[NcDeuce]

:cantbeli:

[Dmitri]

Ok, here yall go:

Shortages were not the only communications problems found during the invasion of Grenada; interoperability was another. For example, uncoordinated use of radio frequencies prevented radio communications between Marines in the north and Army Rangers in the south. As such, interservice communication was prevented, except through offshore relay stations, and kept Marine commanders unaware for too long that Rangers were pinned down without adequate armor.
That should tell you that more than likely they had armor agaist them, and needed some of their own to answer back.

[Salty Dog]

guys. i will say it again. it doesn't matter :cantbeli:

[Ratamacue]

Guys, can't you guys wrap it up? Me and DEP4 could, why can't you? It's all good, everyone's friends around here.

[Javehn]

Great , now that you all done with it , maybe you could answer mine and IDFM203 questions ...

[USMarine3521]

Guys, can't you guys wrap it up? Me and DEP4 could, why can't you? It's all good, everyone's friends around here.

it's hopeless :cantbeli:

I think they should keep on going I'm learning a lot from MarineSniper. :D

[Salty Dog]

javehn and idfm203, i cannot help you with any of your questions because i am a wanna be and i do not know anything. but trigger puller can answer all your questions. so ask him. :(

[Lcpl Young 0331]

Ok now that you guys are nearing the end of your inter service rivalry pissing match (believe me we have the same **** in the Israeli army) perhaps any one of you can answer these questions that I posted back in page 3.

I repeat
”ok so its this aspect which I need more clearing on. What do you mean by testing. And more importantly when is that testing done?? Say for example you have a 100 people from all types of physical shapes and seizes and different mental capabilities and they all want to be Marines in frontline combat fighter roles (not non-combat roles such as support and other things that are not front line combat fighters), how does the process weed them out and also is it done before one even steps on the bus to boot camp or its done after the 13 weeks???

In other words it sounds like to me so far that everyone that applies is accepted into the Marines and only after 13 weeks, do they weed out who goes where and if they even are able to continue as Marines.

Also can anyone explain in greater detail how the ASVAB test works and what it consists of exactly.”

P.S. I really enjoyed this pissing match between both sides for now my respect for both services has been taken down a notch ;) (I am kidding, but I am sure you get my point about arguing these things on a international forum)

Shalom :D

I'll answer all your questions to the best of my ability. I just registered and noticed you were being ignored, so here goes.

When a civilian enlists in the Marines, you become a DEP Recruit (Delayed Entry Program). You attend weekend training to get prepared for boot camp. At some point before leaving for bootcamp you go to MEPS (Military Enlistment Processing Center), and work out your contract. It is here you choose a general field... ie. 0300 (Infantry). When you ship out to boot camp you'll go through the 13 weeks in training, and YES, people do get weeded out. Attitudes or PT problems, are tossed into a separate platoon that deals with their problem. Medical injuries may cause you to get dropped in training until you are healed and return to normal training.

After boot camp you'll attend SOI (if you went into the Infantry field) or MCT (for those who chose support skills). Training at the School of Infantry can also be extended due to injuries or other "problems". After the schools basic Infantry package, you head to your MOS training (infantry are selected while in SOI to be decided on whether they are Machine Gunners, Javelins, TOW Gunners, Rifleman, or Mortar men). LAV Crewman are considered Infantry but go to a seperate school... regular infantry go to their respective training. Non-combatants go to their schools all over the country.

After they complete their training they go to their first duty station. Now, ASVAB scores are used to calculate what MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) you are "good enough" for. You first take a mock test when you see the Recruiter, then take a "real" test when you go to the MEPS to officially enlist into the Marine Corps. The test is broken down into a number of "areas" such as general knowledge, mechanics, math etc. All MOSs have a required ASVAB minimum score in order to be accepted for it.

I hope that answers your questions

[IDFM203]

To Lcpl Young 0331

First, thank you for taking the time out to answer my questions, it is much appreciated :D

Secondly I just want to further clear it up a bit......

So in other words, say you have a hundred people of different physical shapes and sizes and also with different intelligence levels and that they all want to go to infantry (and not to support roles). So what happens is that that you take that ASVAB test twice and go to MEPS and its there that most are weeded out and is decided who can go to infentry roles and who can go or is forced to go to support roles and most of that happens BEFORE basic starts (and of course some in the infantry training get dropped as well due to various things that happened while in training)……….is that all correct???

My whole hung up before was that it seemed like the division of who gets to go or is forced to go to infantry and who gets to go or is forced to go to support roles was only AFTER the 13 weeks basic training and not before it.

To everyone else here……..

This whole thing is simply hilarious.......again we have the same types of endless rivalries in the IDF and believe me it gets nasty as well sometimes BUT in public on a international forum, you should keep it to yourselves for its reflecting poorly on both services!!! (I don’t really think poorly on them at all but it’s a reflection here when both “sides” are trying to put each other’s service down)

My suggestion is to continue this at military.com or in PM's

P.S. I am not taking “sides” here but in the spirit of this thread (for it is a Marine titled thread)I just had to share one of my favourite Marines photos. (I bet you can guess as to why its one of my favorites ;) :D )

http://www.isayeret.com/overview/training/marinefr.jpg

shalom :D

[TriggerPuller]

javehn and idfm203, i cannot help you with any of your questions because i am a wanna be and i do not know anything. but trigger puller can answer all your questions. so ask him. :(Smart ass :D

TP

[USMarine3521]

To Lcpl Young 0331

First, thank you for taking the time out to answer my questions, it is much appreciated :D

Secondly I just want to further clear it up a bit......

So in other words, say you have a hundred people of different physical shapes and sizes and also with different intelligence levels and that they all want to go to infantry (and not to support roles). So what happens is that that you take that ASVAB test twice and go to MEPS and its there that most are weeded out and is decided who can go to infentry roles and who can go or is forced to go to support roles and most of that happens BEFORE basic starts (and of course some in the infantry training get dropped as well due to various things that happened while in training)……….is that all correct???

My whole hung up before was that it seemed like the division of who gets to go or is forced to go to infantry and who gets to go or is forced to go to support roles was only AFTER the 13 weeks basic training and not before it.

To everyone else here……..

This whole thing is simply hilarious.......again we have the same types of endless rivalries in the IDF and believe me it gets nasty as well sometimes BUT in public on a international forum, you should keep it to yourselves for its reflecting poorly on both services!!! (I don’t really think poorly on them at all but it’s a reflection here when both “sides” are trying to put each other’s service down)

My suggestion is to continue this at military.com or in PM's

P.S. I am not taking “sides” here but in the spirit of this thread (for it is a Marine titled thread)I just had to share one of my favourite Marines photos. (I bet you can guess as to why its one of my favorites ;) :D )

http://www.isayeret.com/overview/training/marinefr.jpg

shalom :D

I dont get it :( why is it your favorite :)

[Salty Dog]

javehn and idfm203, i cannot help you with any of your questions because i am a wanna be and i do not know anything. but trigger puller can answer all your questions. so ask him. :(Smart ass :D

TP

you do have a sense of humor! ;)

[USMarine3521]

just curious, what did you think of that commercial SGTROCK?

[IDFM203]

P.S. I am not taking “sides” here but in the spirit of this thread (for it is a Marine titled thread)I just had to share one of my favourite Marines photos. (I bet you can guess as to why its one of my favorites ;) :D )

http://www.isayeret.com/overview/training/marinefr.jpg

shalom :D

I dont get it :( why is it your favorite :) I cant tell if your serious or not but if you really don’t know why I like this pic well here is a hint ;) besides the nice "combat" look of this pic, guess where their training at (where this picture is taken)???? :D

Shalom :D

[USMarine3521]

ohhhhh is it......Palestine?!?!?!?....or Israel?? :D (I was serious though, but I knew it had something to do with Israel :) )

[IDFM203]

ohhhhh is it...... Israel?? :D (I was serious though, but I knew it had something to do with Israel :) ) ding ding ding *voice of game show host* “that’s correct !! you win a…..” ;) :D

Seriously though that’s a pic of U.S. Marines Corps Force Recon during CQB training in a mock town in a training base in Israel.

Actually that pic was taken a while back and it was before the recent Iraq war where a large contingent of Marines and army came to Israel to learn Israeli MOUT techniques and to train with them.

From USA TODAY

Israeli infantry units with experience in urban warfare during the Palestinian uprising helped train U.S. Army and Marine counterparts this summer and fall for possible urban battles in Iraq, a foreign defense official says. The Israelis have built two mock cities, complete with mosques, hanging laundry and even the odd donkey meandering down dusty streets. A defense official said the sites far surpass U.S. facilities. The location of the training centers is classified.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-11-03-israel-usat_x.htm

I have met many U.S. military personal in Israel and shared some amazing stories together; all of them are great guys (and hell of drinkers as well when they go out to the bars ;) :lol: )

Shalom :D

[TriggerPuller]

just curious, what did you think of that commercial SGTROCK? You know me from another board? I like the commercial cause it doesnt promise you a rose garden or any college money,just the chance to earn the title Marine. Good stuff

TP

[USMarine3521]

just curious, what did you think of that commercial SGTROCK? You know me from another board? I like the commercial cause it doesnt promise you a rose garden or any college money,just the chance to earn the title Marine. Good stuff

TP

well you said earlier you were SGTROCK from socnet, occasionally I peak in socnet to see what the big dogs are up to, so I guess in a way I know who you are. :)

[Dmitri]

Oki-doki, lets wrap it up, although I must say that I am yet to be proven anything, seems like same for you guys.

Guys, can't you guys wrap it up? Me and DEP4 could, why can't you?well, its more like you were just shut down ;) , but its all good.

So what happens is that that you take that ASVAB test twice I'll just add some to that: Infantry traditionaly has one of the lowest score standards for getting in...and you really have to be retarded to take it twice to get into infantry, not to say that all the people in combat arms are stupid :lol:

[USMarine3521]

Oki-doki, lets wrap it up, although I must say that I am yet to be proven anything, seems like same for you guys.

Guys, can't you guys wrap it up? Me and DEP4 could, why can't you?well, its more like you were just shut down ;) , but its all good.

So what happens is that that you take that ASVAB test twice I'll just add some to that: Infantry traditionaly has one of the lowest score standards for getting in...and you really have to be retarded to take it twice to get into infantry, not to say that all the people in combat arms are stupid :lol:

oh....trust me i've seen some people with horrible ASVAB scores I knew this one dude who is only 19 and has TWO kids!! and lets just say he didn't score high enough to even get into the military and he said his plan was to get an admin. job rofl

[Dmitri]

Damn, good luck to him! Speaking of which, what is the MOS that requires the lowes score? Wouldn't it be something like truck driving or cook?

[TriggerPuller]

just curious, what did you think of that commercial SGTROCK? You know me from another board? I like the commercial cause it doesnt promise you a rose garden or any college money,just the chance to earn the title Marine. Good stuff

TP

well you said earlier you were SGTROCK from socnet, occasionally I peak in socnet to see what the big dogs are up to, so I guess in a way I know who you are. :)One in the same. You see my attitude doesnt change much unless you know me. You are G2G though. Take care

TP

[USMarine3521]

Damn, good luck to him! Speaking of which, what is the MOS that requires the lowes score? Wouldn't it be something like truck driving or cook?

actually cook requires a higher score than infantry! rofl (you need a 90 GT for a cook while infantry is only 80 :lol: )

[TriggerPuller]

Oki-doki, lets wrap it up, although I must say that I am yet to be proven anything, seems like same for you guys.

Guys, can't you guys wrap it up? Me and DEP4 could, why can't you?well, its more like you were just shut down ;) , but its all good.

So what happens is that that you take that ASVAB test twice I'll just add some to that: Infantry traditionaly has one of the lowest score standards for getting in...and you really have to be retarded to take it twice to get into infantry, not to say that all the people in combat arms are stupid :lol:Dmitri,what was your score? The ASVAB scores obviously counts but it is the GT or GCT score that you want to be high if you plan on getting into an SOF unit. It is 105 or higher for Marines to even be able to volunteer for Recon,among other things.

TP

[Dmitri]

I got 117 GT and 86 on ASVAB

[Dmitri]

Yeah, it used to be 110 GT to be in SF, now they just lowered it down to 100 to get more people flowing, I guess. What do you SOF guys think about that?

[TriggerPuller]

Yeah, it used to be 110 GT to be in SF, now they just lowered it down to 100 to get more people flowing, I guess. What do you SOF guys think about that? Good job on yout GT score BTW. Must be the Army changed it to 100 if thats true,I do know that is was 110 and 105 for Marines but I had heard that had changed to 110 so who knows,wont say unless I know for sure. As for my opinion anything that compromises standards is a bad thing,just to get strength up wouldnt be the rigt way to go about things. Remember strength and endurance are a big part of the SOF type units but the brain is your # 1 tool and weapon....always!!

TP

[Dmitri]

Well, everywhere I read before it said 110, then then I some new brochures and talked to the recruiter, so now it got down to 100. I don't know how much these 10 points will effect the overall quality of SF, but it definately makes a world of difference in how many people are now being able to apply. I just hope they don't lose on this deal...
LOL.I'll never forget my trip to the SF recruiter. I was going there, you know, expecting all the normal recruiter b/s, but what I saw... the dude was reclining there on the chair, chiling, in shorts and tore-up sleevless t-shirt, tatoos everywhere, looking at me like he was wondering what in the hell I was doing there! I was shocked and didn't know what to even say :oops: But we started talking and he was actually a really cool guy, very smart, unfortunately we didn't get very far because I found out that you have to be a citizen to be in there.. :(

[Royal]

Royal,


The USA had no official involvement on the ground during the UNPROFOR period.

Pay attention to that word...official.

You said it, I didnt. ;)



The only action by the USMC I can recollect in the area is the extraction of Scott O'Grady (since made into an excrable bearing no relation to reality).

WOW, I didnt know you went on that mission?!! And to think that the whole time, I was thinking that you were making an ill-informed comment based upon information you had only seen on TV or read about then formulated your own opinion!
Thank's for clearing it up for me that the story that has been told bears no relation to reality! Which one of the 53s were you on? I was in the hangar bay helping them prep and I dont remember seeing any Brits going onto the flight deck when I watched the TRAP force from Weapons Company 3/8 load up onto the birds!
Were you there on an exchange program or something? Damn, I talked to all of those guys when they got back onboard and the stories they told me were EXACTLY as it has been represented. I guess I should have stopped you after you got off the helo and asked you to tell me your version.
rofl

No I wasn't there, but as I spent most of the '90's in and out of the Balkans on Ops and staff jobs, I saw the reports.

I don't remember O'Grady being involved in any fire fights, finding any mass graves or having a co-pilot who was murdered (F16's being sngle seaters :cantbeli: ). Or for that matter being shot down. According to the reports we were given he was flying above the SA2's service ceiling and ejected when the SAM was fired at him

[MarineSniper8541]

Ahhhh,

You are talking about that grotesquely stupid movie...Behind Enemy Lines I think?

I don't think that was supposed to be based on the O'grady story. They just used his story as an idea for a movie line.

[Roger Rabbit]

Did a quick google and i read a couple of articles saying that O'Grady was planning to sue both the History Channel and the makers of the movie for distorting the story.

[GLax]

Damn, good luck to him! Speaking of which, what is the MOS that requires the lowes score? Wouldn't it be something like truck driving or cook?

military intelligence!!! rofl rofl rofl




...




srry, that was lame... :cantbeli:

[Johnnyringo]

http://home.earthlink.net/~john1527/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/okioperators.jpg

Kill!

[Johnnyringo]

I'm sorry but the posts by Dmitrius "dumbass" have pissed me off... The grunt unit I served with did everything from desert to mountain(8,000+) to jungle(yeah triple canopy) to "ship to shore ops" and most in between. I recall once going to Ft. Irwin just north of where I was stationed in 29 Palms, In order to be the "OPFOR" for the Army's little laser tag pre deployment B.S. The unit commanders got together for a brief before the whole OP went hot and the talk immediately came onto the Marines that were tasked as the OPFOR... (we were just two rifle companies plus weapons company attachments). I was there taking notes for my C.O. (a Capt.) I was a Lcpl at the time and the Company F.O. prior to division schools besides BFOC.... One of the the full birds(Army) said, and I QUOTE... "Those marines can hump 20 clicks at night and be on your doorstep at first light!" needless to say I got a giant hardon, which immediatlely subsided when I realized my C.O. might want to one -up that colonel and have our company do a 30 click tactical hump into the Army battalions rear!
Regardless of the outcome of the battle (er fake battle)...everyone that's been there knows the OPFOR always wins....
My FAVORITE!!! part of the whole training op was the ops we were sent on to distract and disrupt their COC... Now get this, only Lcpls and below were sent on these tasks. With our Miles gear we were supposed to test defenses of the Army's "Camp"... Imagine a deployed Regiment of armored infantry plus attachments (probably reserve support components... I'll give em that) defending a square mile of their own encampment. All we were supposed to do was get as close to the COC as possible. Keep in mind we all had MILES gear... these frigging tards couldn't see us ( 12 regular marine grunts) cutting the fenceline 300 yards from the front post with a "game warden" or whatever you call the army rules guy, watching. Needless to say we were able to unplug their main generator almost in the center of their encampment. and then run losing only three guys, all of which we were able to carry.

[USMarine3521]

I'm sorry but the posts by Dmitrius "dumbass" have pissed me off... The grunt unit I served with did everything from desert to mountain(8,000+) to jungle(yeah triple canopy) to "ship to shore ops" and most in between. I recall once going to Ft. Irwin just north of where I was stationed in 29 Palms, In order to be the "OPFOR" for the Army's little laser tag pre deployment B.S. The unit commanders got together for a brief before the whole OP went hot and the talk immediately came onto the Marines that were tasked as the OPFOR... (we were just two rifle companies plus weapons company attachments). I was there taking notes for my C.O. (a Capt.) I was a Lcpl at the time and the Company F.O. prior to division schools besides BFOC.... One of the the full birds(Army) said, and I QUOTE... "Those marines can hump 20 clicks at night and be on your doorstep at first light!" needless to say I got a giant hardon, which immediatlely subsided when I realized my C.O. might want to one -up that colonel and have our company do a 30 click tactical hump into the Army battalions rear!
Regardless of the outcome of the battle (er fake battle)...everyone that's been there knows the OPFOR always wins....
My FAVORITE!!! part of the whole training op was the ops we were sent on to distract and disrupt their COC... Now get this, only Lcpls and below were sent on these tasks. With our Miles gear we were supposed to test defenses of the Army's "Camp"... Imagine a deployed Regiment of armored infantry plus attachments (probably reserve support components... I'll give em that) defending a square mile of their own encampment. All we were supposed to do was get as close to the COC as possible. Keep in mind we all had MILES gear... these frigging tards couldn't see us ( 12 regular marine grunts) cutting the fenceline 300 yards from the front post with a "game warden" or whatever you call the army rules guy, watching. Needless to say we were able to unplug their main generator almost in the center of their encampment. and then run losing only three guys, all of which we were able to carry.

awesome story! :D were you in the reserves?

[Salty Dog]

yes, awesome story, you have anymore?

[Johnnyringo]

http://home.earthlink.net/~john1527/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/okioperators.jpg%20

[Johnnyringo]

http://home.earthlink.net/~john1527/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/hunt.jpg

[Dmitri]

I'm sorry but the posts by Dmitrius "dumbass" have pissed me off... The grunt unit I served with did everything from desert to mountain(8,000+) to jungle(yeah triple canopy) to "ship to shore ops" and most in between. I recall once going to Ft. Irwin just north of where I was stationed in 29 Palms, In order to be the "OPFOR" for the Army's little laser tag pre deployment B.S. The unit commanders got together for a brief before the whole OP went hot and the talk immediately came onto the Marines that were tasked as the OPFOR... (we were just two rifle companies plus weapons company attachments). I was there taking notes for my C.O. (a Capt.) I was a Lcpl at the time and the Company F.O. prior to division schools besides BFOC.... One of the the full birds(Army) said, and I QUOTE... "Those marines can hump 20 clicks at night and be on your doorstep at first light!" needless to say I got a giant hardon, which immediatlely subsided when I realized my C.O. might want to one -up that colonel and have our company do a 30 click tactical hump into the Army battalions rear!
Regardless of the outcome of the battle (er fake battle)...everyone that's been there knows the OPFOR always wins....
My FAVORITE!!! part of the whole training op was the ops we were sent on to distract and disrupt their COC... Now get this, only Lcpls and below were sent on these tasks. With our Miles gear we were supposed to test defenses of the Army's "Camp"... Imagine a deployed Regiment of armored infantry plus attachments (probably reserve support components... I'll give em that) defending a square mile of their own encampment. All we were supposed to do was get as close to the COC as possible. Keep in mind we all had MILES gear... these frigging tards couldn't see us ( 12 regular marine grunts) cutting the fenceline 300 yards from the front post with a "game warden" or whatever you call the army rules guy, watching. Needless to say we were able to unplug their main generator almost in the center of their encampment. and then run losing only three guys, all of which we were able to carry.
Well, **** happens. Believe it or not, my national guard unit, 48th Brigade, 2/121, had a similar training op where they faced 3rd ID. Well guess what, a national guard unit completely humiliated an active duty unit, 3rd ID actually got completely outmanuvered and they surrendered. I believe it was in '97, so I wasn't there yet, but it was in Ft. Stewart and Ranger Joe's actually had a bid scoreboard display where they showed the score to everybody. Some of you won't believe me, reasonably, but I'll try to get some proof from somewhere.
Moral: **** happens

[James]

I have a few stories from training at Ft. Irwin... MILES gear, of course.

An 0331 (Machine Gunner to you non marine) engaged an AH-64 with an M-60. That was a mistake. :P

A marine infantry platoon (foot mobile) repelled the assault of a reinforced army mech platoon and "shot down" 2 AH-64s with AT-4 simulators. That said, there were only 2 marines "alive" when the engagement ended.

I took a LCPL out on a brief recon patrol to investigate voices and vehicle sounds we'd heard in a nearby Wadi. Those sounds were from some army referees. THen, we saw the mast from on OH-58 peeking over the top of a little hill. I told the LCPL, "Let's get him!" We ran up the hill and were able to get about 50m away from the OH-58. I told the LCP to put his rifle on burst and empty his mag. We both unloaded, and the helo went and landed nearby. I think maybe the pilotes were wearing Miles Gear, as well as what was strapped to the bird. Either way, I can tell the story of how I shot down a helicopter. :P