Police Brutality?

[Beowulf]

What do you think? Let's hear from the LEO's in the crowd.

http://www.foxnews.com/index.html

There's a video but I can't figure outhow to link it.

edit: here's the link to the story:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104467,00.html

[Argyll]

I saw this on Fox today,I guessconsidering these officers were attacked 1st,they were acting within the confines of self defence,but it is also interesting when the boundaries of self defence become assault!!

[mocking_loudly_died]

Interesting footage.

Looked like a combination of self defence and bashing the **** out of some one.

Oh well kids, don't do drugs.

[California Joe]

I'd bash that mocking deadly character. Ooh yes. *grinning evilly*

[mocking_loudly_died]

I'd bash that mocking deadly character. Ooh yes. *grinning evilly*


You always hurt the one you love.

Stop fighting it Joe. :D

[California Joe]

I love you Kelly.

[Red]

I am a black man and i have to say that those police officers showed remarkable restraint,if it were me, i would have pumped the guy full of .00 buckshots.I know the likes of those eggheads called jese jackson and al sharpton will come out and say it is because he was black,that is not true.It is not because he was black that he was beaten,he was beaten because he was foolish.

[Salty Dog]

yes, i beleive that the officers used all the force they needed to in order to subdue the man. i don't think this is a police brutality case.

[jdbjdb]

I hope this doesn't start new violence in Cincinati, riots, looting,

[Red]

i hope those so called black leaders wont come on the tv and start talking smack

[buckeyedoc]

I live about 35 minutes from Cincinnati and have had to put up with the news footage that doesn't make the national news. The NAACP and the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati have blown this crap WAY out of proportion. All you hear around here is the NAACP and CJC calling for Chief Streicher's head on a platter. Well, quite frankly, I wish the NAACP and CJC would back the (insert expletive here) off. Although tragic that Nathaniel Jones died, he deserved what he got. He did, in fact, attack the officers after they tried to get him to surrender peacefully. He wanted no part of it. All of the bruising from the baton strikes were below the waist. The CJC has called for the firing of Chief Streicher and the 6 officers (one of which was African-American). Sorry this post is so long, but I am sick and tired of the NAACP and CJC bitching and moaning about everything and wanting to fire officers if the wind blows the wrong direction. Enough is enough!!!

[hood]

I've got a serious question for all those in the know. Where are the tazers? Why beat a person senseless to subdue him when you can just light him up long enough to get the cuffs on him? To be sure, that guy was probably not even feeling the pain of those baton hits because of the drugs, but electricity gets past that. Are cops not allowed to use such devices?

[Roger Rabbit]

I would have thought that in the current sue sue sue environment then using tazers might be a bit dangerous. The electricity might cause someone to have some kind of health problem and die or suffer effects from it. Just a thought.

[Red]

BS they did not need to use tasers,they should have just shot him in the head.Even though they are authorised to do so,The dumbass guy attacked ARMED policeman,i mean what the heck,how dumb can you get?I know that in the past there have been incidents of white cops doing some not so nice things, but in this case,the guy was clearly at fault.The NAACP needs to shut up and be fair.All these negroes behave as if it is only white folks that are racist,but in my experience,i have experienced more racism from black folks than i have from white folks.Stupid negroes

[Pandy]

I would love them to put me up...

*Korean American Beaten in Columbus Ohio... these Gooks were mistaken for Black men... Is this another police brutality case." :(

Note: I am a Korean American and just like to make fun of myself.

[buckeyedoc]

The PD in the city where I work as a medic have the tazers. They use them on a regular basis. Yes, they are quite effective. However, I have seen a subject shot with them twice and still fight. Both police officers were discharging the taze at the same time and it still didn't work. Another officer pulled out his ASP baton and struck the guy behind the knee and it dropped him quick. Tazers are effective, but not 100%. I'm not sure what percentage of Cincinnati PD officers have access to tazers.

[ogukuo72]

The PD in the city where I work as a medic have the tazers. They use them on a regular basis. Yes, they are quite effective. However, I have seen a subject shot with them twice and still fight. Both police officers were discharging the taze at the same time and it still didn't work. Another officer pulled out his ASP baton and struck the guy behind the knee and it dropped him quick. Tazers are effective, but not 100%. I'm not sure what percentage of Cincinnati PD officers have access to tazers.

Tazers are 100% effective if (read the fine prints on the box! :) ) they are used properly. Unfortunately, in the real world, things like clothings get in the way of proper employment. If the target is wearing thick clothings like denim or quilted jacket, the barbs might not be able to make proper contact with the body.

I've heard some rumours recently that body fat percentage have an impact on how the target respond to tazer shocks as well. Supposedly, the fatter the person, the more difficult it will be for tazers (and hand-held stun guns) to properly subdue him. But this is only a rumour and I haven't seen anything scientific to back this up.

[GLax]

i dunno, its hard to tell if it was brutality considering you cant see everything. it would be easy to say brutality considering all you can see is the Officer swinging his batton... forget the tazer, what about pepper spray?

[16 OBr SpN]

The black guy asked for it, and he got it. Personally, I think police officers were actually very diplomatic with him, at least by Russian standards. ;)

[zipper]

Some Depts. can not afford 1 tazor let alone 2.
Until their sued for beating a guy with baton.
:bash:

[zipper]

I'm not going to Monday morning quarterback these officers. I will explain it though.
You have to fallow the guidelines that you are taught in training.
Offender was using open hands (as far as I could see) so that means officers went to striking weapons, I would have used Pepper or OC, but that's just me I don't carry a baton or asp. Not allowed.
:fork:

[jdbjdb]

That guy was on pcp, I beleive the cops were justified, they could have shot him but choose not to, they were lucky they were not seriously injured, pcp is some evil ****

[martinexsquaddie]

fortunatly pcp isn't common this side of the pond
but heard stories of cops emptying magazines of hollow points and buckshot with no effect

[Saranof]

BS they did not need to use tasers,they should have just shot him in the head.Even though they are authorised to do so,The dumbass guy attacked ARMED policeman,i mean what the heck,how dumb can you get?I know that in the past there have been incidents of white cops doing some not so nice things, but in this case,the guy was clearly at fault.The NAACP needs to shut up and be fair.All these negroes behave as if it is only white folks that are racist,but in my experience,i have experienced more racism from black folks than i have from white folks.Stupid negroes


Did you say you were black? Don't really know if I belive that dude.. :|

"how dumb can you get?" Yeah well, if you are allowed to kill a guy cos of low intellect, then you would be in the ****, yah?

The guy WAS doing wrong, but as Hood pointed out, where were the tazers? pepperspray?
If this was a white guy they would NOT have beaten the living **** out of him, just a sad fact.

[Red]

BS they did not need to use tasers,they should have just shot him in the head.Even though they are authorised to do so,The dumbass guy attacked ARMED policeman,i mean what the heck,how dumb can you get?I know that in the past there have been incidents of white cops doing some not so nice things, but in this case,the guy was clearly at fault.The NAACP needs to shut up and be fair.All these negroes behave as if it is only white folks that are racist,but in my experience,i have experienced more racism from black folks than i have from white folks.Stupid negroes


Did you say you were black? Don't really know if I belive that dude.. :|

"how dumb can you get?" Yeah well, if you are allowed to kill a guy cos of low intellect, then you would be in the ****, yah?

The guy WAS doing wrong, but as Hood pointed out, where were the tazers? pepperspray?
If this was a white guy they would NOT have beaten the living **** out of him, just a sad fact.
i am black and i aint fooling you,the guy asked for it,and he got what he deserved

[Red]

Don't get me worng here, i dont think or condone people killing other people for no reason.But whatever the reasons, he was wrong.If a cop provokes you, your common sense should tell you to just take the **** and walk away.Dont hit back,dont question because at the end of the day,if you do question that cop,you will lose.Like i said, the police have done so many bad things to blacks in the past but for this case,the guy was at fault as far as i can see.And please i want you to know.I am black.As for the russian dude that was talking about russian police and all that,that is BS,thats why russia is like it is.That country is full of bigots,i cant stand eastern europeans for one reason:Bigotry.people in the US complain about the racism,they need to go to Eastern europe, and see what the cal racism.Damn.It amazes me how people think that they are superior to another person because his skin color is of a darker shade.I mean comon what else will they say?The klingons are the master race.whatever

[Durandal]

I hope this doesn't start new violence in Cincinati, riots, looting,

I lived in Cincinnati for most of my life. I currently live across the river from it in Covington. The violence in the city was weird. I have a great number of african american friends and none of us, not one realized there was any white black or black white hatred. We knew there was SOME animosity towards to the police, but not as much as we saw.

But there we were, in the college part of town waiting for the riots to spill over 8 blocks to where we lived. We were armed and expecting the worse.

Now since then I did some research on the issues at hand.

Of the 15 individuals that had been killed by Cincinnati police officers at the time of the riots, three had been questionable. The other 12 involved the perp committing a felony (or lots) and was armed...about a third were bank robberies (The Greater Cincinnati area had the most per capita bank robberies the year of the riots than any other US city).

Cincinnati is actually a fairly liberal town while the outlying county, Hamilton, is historically conservative.

Most damage was done to either black or white small business owners, not corporate or city property. A perfect example was the destruction and looting of the small business "God Save the Queen" a small dealer in antiques and religous icons from territories catholic and former British colonies (a VERY cool store I might add). The store was destroyed while th ecorporate headquarters for Krogers (with nice juicy rock magnet plate glass windows) across the street was untouched.

85% of those arrested rioting were from out of town and not Cincinnati residents. Now,m that is not to say that those rioting were not form Cincinnati, jus those arrested.

The leaders of the african american community have, since the riots, done little to help their communities and more to try to hurt the city as a whole.

The boycott, started almost immediately following the riots has done little to hurt what would be considered "white" business, while African-American entertainers have avoided the city like th eplague, honoring the boycott.

The city of Cincinnati is the location for the new Underground Railroad museum. A museum, nearly completed that tells the history of the largest escape route from the south for runaway slaves.

The Federal Government, the local activists, and the local police have never come to terms with the riots. The police claim that the activists change their demands weekly and monthly, while the activists claim the police are becoming more hardline. The federal government investigators wlaked soon after the police union refused to deal with the situation anymore going back a business as usual mentality.

Meanwhile, the downtown area of Cincy (well not downtoen proper, but the lower rent areas and the entertainment districts have felt the most pain fromthe whole thing. City council needs to do something, BUT they have not. Our (or rather their, now that I moved) city council has lacked forward thinking vision for at least a decade and I fear that we will see Cincinnati become another Detroit. Who knows.

I hope this does not lead to more riots. I have found that no one has ever gotten hurt in CIncinnati listenig to an officer and doig what he says. Throwing in a yes sir or no sir probably would make it even better. People act as if running from the police and threatening them or becomig violent with them is somehow acceptable. In the end it only gets more violence...

I think the officers were within their rights to protect themselves. It is a shame that it has happened again, but then a lot of that shame shold be placed on the poor community causing the violence and shifting the blame.

[Red]

People act as if running from the police and threatening them or becomig violent with them is somehow acceptable. In the end it only gets more violence... that is exactly what i mean he should not have questioned them wheter they were right or wrong he should not have.

[jdbjdb]

fortunatly pcp isn't common this side of the pond
but heard stories of cops emptying magazines of hollow points and buckshot with no effect

Some people today like to soak their dope in pcp and then smoke it, most become like walking zombies, some turn very violent, The United States is losing the war on drugs, something effective must be done. When your on pcp, no pain, no frear, the person using it might as well put a bullet in their own head.

[GLax]

fortunatly pcp isn't common this side of the pond
but heard stories of cops emptying magazines of hollow points and buckshot with no effect

Some people today like to soak their dope in pcp and then smoke it, most become like walking zombies, some turn very violent, The United States is losing the war on drugs, something effective must be done. When your on pcp, no pain, no frear, the person using it might as well put a bullet in their own head.

very true, ppl on pcp can run with 18 bullets in them and wont stop till they physically cant do it anymore, quite amazing the amount of damage the human body can take before dying when pain and fear arent a factor...

[hood]

The war on drugs is not really something that you can win or lose. It's a perpetual effort with no forseeable end by law enforcement to stop drug trafficing and consumption, as much as possible. Just like other illegal things, people are always going to want it, so people will always try to get it into the country. Just like all types of crime, it needs to be reassessed every few years to determine where changes in training and funding need to be made to offset problem areas.

[Durandal]

It woldn't be the first tiime a cop killed someone on PCP in Cincinnati.

[Argyll]

Thats a somewhat strange reply there Hood,surely given the same resources as the Military,then maybe just maybe there can be something good at the end of it!
Saying that it can't be won is,to me saying that the war on terrorism can't be won either,or not in my life time,what saddens me is that there are more people in the USA that die from drugs than what there is by terrorism,yet there is more of an emphasis on terrorism than drugs and the gun culture!
Is pcp the same sort of thing as LSD?

[California Joe]

PCP is considered a schedule 3 drug by the ATF I believe. Originally a tranquilizer given to big cats in Zoo's etc. The trouble was when it wore off they were increasingly aggressive and hostile. Bad combination.

[Roger Rabbit]

The war on drugs can be won, it just won't be won thats all. To prevent masses of people from taking drugs you simply need to cut out the largest sources. There's too many fingers in different pies for that to ever happen though. Its a shame but thats whats called greed.

[hood]

Saying that it can't be won is,to me saying that the war on terrorism can't be won either

The war on terrorism is not something that can be won. Don't get me wrong, I'll all for fighting it, just like I think we should hardly give up on the war on drugs. Someone, somewhere, is always going to have extreme ideals, and find other people stupid enough to follow him/her. It's human nature. You can't stop ideas no matter how hard you try. The best we can do, just like with drugs, is to try our best to stop the funding, facilitation, and capabilities of the people involved in perpetrating such crimes. It's a never ending job but well worth the effort.

[Roger Rabbit]

I would agree that wars on terrorism and drusg should take place, i just resent the fact that so many politicians go and **** them up by getting their grubby mits into shady deals and the only ones who profit out of the whole thing are themselves. The only drugs they deserve is a small piece of metal administered at high speed to the cranium.

[Argyll]

Yep thats the facts Hood!!,both are like trying to scratch your left elbow with your left hand!!
Both are cancerous to our society!!

[jdbjdb]

We can't stop drugs tottaly, but for the ones who make that ****, we can make their lives hell.

[Argyll]

If the demand was les than the supply that would also help huge amounts!!

[Red]

Saying that it can't be won is,to me saying that the war on terrorism can't be won either

The war on terrorism is not something that can be won. Don't get me wrong, I'll all for fighting it, just like I think we should hardly give up on the war on drugs. Someone, somewhere, is always going to have extreme ideals, and find other people stupid enough to follow him/her. It's human nature. You can't stop ideas no matter how hard you try. The best we can do, just like with drugs, is to try our best to stop the funding, facilitation, and capabilities of the people involved in perpetrating such crimes. It's a never ending job but well worth the effort.
totaly agreee

[usa320]

this was a white guy they would NOT have beaten the living **** out of him

I beg to differ, white cops beat the **** outta some white guy here no to long again, ended up capping him...tried to roll them over with his car.

[jdbjdb]

If the demand was les than the supply that would also help huge amounts!!

Thats true, and that demand will always be there, when you look back at the 40's and 50's drugs were not a problem, it's kinda scary looking to the future and wonder how bad it will be in 50 years.

[Durandal]

this was a white guy they would NOT have beaten the living **** out of him

I beg to differ, white cops beat the **** outta some white guy here no to long again, ended up capping him...tried to roll them over with his car.

Actaully what had happened is that a teenager or early twenties something kid (I forget) was in the car whent he cops told him to get out. The one cop got stuck and dragged. They shot him. He bled to death in his parents driveway/home.

Another lesson. When cops shot "FREEZE" you do it.

[Durandal]

I think the only way to make the war on drugs even remotely successful is to drive the prices so high no one can afford it.

There will always be the newer cheaper better drug out though. With designer drugs, some are not even illegal for some months or years after their creation.

I know I wold not want to have to fight THAT headache.

[buckeyedoc]

There was an article in the Cincinnati Enquirer about drugs in the man's system. DUH!

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/12/02/loc_loc1a.html

[Seraphim]

Just watched it...looks like it goes on further.
IMHO the cops didnt do anything wrong. Black guy instigated the shuffle and he was resisting arrest. I dont know about the cops in Cinn but here, only a few cops have stun guns.

[Seraphim]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031204/ap_on_re_us/died_in_custody&cid=519&ncid=716


Coroner: Struggle Caused Ohio Man's Death

By JOHN NOLAN, Associated Press Writer

CINCINNATI - The death of a 350-pound black man who was clubbed by police in a videotaped beating was caused primarily by the struggle that ensued after the suspect lunged and swung at the officers, the coroner said Wednesday in a case that has heightened racial tensions.


Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones, 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood.


He said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a decision does not mean police used "excessive force." The coroner said he had to rule the death a homicide because it did not fall under the other categories: accident, suicide or natural.


"Since the struggle was the result of a purposeful act, in this case, the effort by the police to subdue him, to do their jobs, that purposeful act was a primary cause of death," Parrott said.


The coroner said the death was a homicide because the struggle and restraint caused Jones' death, but noted that Jones would have been more likely to survive had he not used drugs, been obese or suffered from the weakened heart. Jones had ingested cocaine within three hours of the struggle and the PCP within five hours, Parrott said.


Black activists say Jones' death was another example of police brutality against blacks in a city that was rocked by race riots two years ago. That unrest was sparked after a white police officer shot and killed an unarmed fleeing black suspect.


But city officials have said the officers in the current case were properly defending themselves against a violent suspect. The officers — five whites and one black — were placed on administrative leave, which is standard procedure.


The struggle occurred early Sunday after an employee at a White Castle called 911 to report that a man had passed out on the lawn outside. Emergency personnel arrived and reported that the man was awake and "becoming a nuisance," according to police radio transmissions.


The first two arriving officers were shown on a police video striking Jones after he ignored orders to "stay back," took a swing at an officer and put his arm around one's neck.


The officers later knocked Jones to the ground and fell on him, and jabbed or clubbed him with nightsticks at least a dozen times over several minutes until he was handcuffed. They kept yelling, "Put your hands behind your back!" as they struggled to handcuff him.


Jones' body had bruising on the lower half, but did not show signs of blows to the head or organ damage, the coroner said.


In Jones' car, police found cocaine and three hand-rolled cigarettes that had been dipped in methanol, an ingredient in embalming fluid that gets people high, authorities said.


The coroner's ruling came shortly after lawyers for Jones' family called for an independent investigation, claiming the coroner has mishandled past cases.


"It's hard for me to believe anything that comes out of the coroner's office," attorney Kenneth Lawson said at a news conference.


Relatives said Jones was a loving person who never hurt anyone.


"They talk about Skip like he was an animal," said his grandmother, Bessie Jones. "He wasn't. Skipper was just a good old, fat jolly fella. He wasn't violent."


"Everyone he met, that he touched, loved him," said his aunt, Diane Payton. "He was never mean."





Parrott said he has full confidence in his office's findings.

"We're doing things in the way everyone else does it. We're doing it to national and international standards," he said.

John Ester, spokesman for the prosecutor's office, said the office was in the preliminary stages of investigating the scuffle and was still awaiting the results of a police investigation.

Police Capt. Vince Demasi said the ruling was in line with what police expected.

The Justice Department (news - web sites) said this week that it has begun gathering information to determine whether an investigation is warranted.

[mocking_loudly_died]

What would be nice is if we could take on groups like FARC head to head, let them play with the big boys (USA / UK) - not covert but overt (yes I know our SAS friends have been in columbia - but they are forced to mainly provide training).

Simplistic idea of mine - yes, still would be nice to see a full blown in your face war with these **** heads that deal in drugs.

[hood]

"Everyone he met, that he touched, loved him," said his aunt, Diane Payton. "He was never mean."

Why is the guy who has enough drugs on him to choke a horse, always "he was the nicest guy!". Uh huh.

[Ratamacue]

Dude, you ever watch shows like the Today Show where they interview the family of these murderers? They're always like "he's kind, gentle, loving, intelligent." Why is it always the good guys that are bad guys?

[martinexsquaddie]

the tragedy is the bloke was probably a nice guy but put that load in your system and all bets are off. I doubt tasers or pepper spray would have any effect at all.
Theres an argument to legalize drugs take the dealers and the criminals out of the picture.
If you drink alcohol or smoke your using Drugs addicitve ones at that.

The WAR on drugs is probably the most stupid response to a social problem ever.
lets face delta isn't going to be sent after wallstreet candy takers or students smoking Dope.
addicts can be turned around but its time consuming. The 12 step programme works but the addict must want to change

[Seraphim]

Tazers will work if they have drugs in their system or not.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Half my friends are junkies, I wish they would die so I could piss on their graves.

[Seraphim]

Half my friends are junkies, I wish they would die so I could piss on their graves.

Will you be my friend?

[Durandal]

Right now we have he Reverend Shuttlesworth (I had his son for my High School English Teacher back in 1984) demanding civil unrest.

WTF!?

I just saw new video of the whole thing. Local residents called the cops, the guy was being a nuisance, and then he attacked cops when things went down. A normal individual would have survived the level of violence that had happened but the guy was SEVERELY overweight with a horible heart.

I am starting to get really pissed off at the lack of responsibility of the "activist" community here in Cincinnati.

[hood]

Can you post a link to the new video you're mentioning?

[Durandal]

Can you post a link to the new video you're mentioning?

I saw it on Fox News last night, on Hannity and Colmes...there might be a link, but I have not seen it.

Here is the transcript... ( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104711,00.html ) I am not too sure if they had more video or what, but the part I saw was fromthe White Castle security cameras...

Anyone else see this or did I have some dort of weird dream last night? :)

[NcDeuce]

I have only caught a peek at the struggle between the two cops and drugged out man. It sure wasn't pretty but I guess it was necessary...I mean the dude was what, 350 lbs? These two cops were dealing with a drugged out monster who probably didn't feel the blows if he took cocaine. It's sad, but this stuff happens all the time. He shouldn't have been doing drugs in the first place.