First six Jas-39 Gripens arrived to Czech Republic!!!

[Gomer_Pyle]

http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5814/1.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5814/2.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5814/3.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5814/4.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5814/5.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5814/6.jpg

[Dado]

Thats a nice machine! woot

[RSK]

Congrats!

[V/E]

god speed

[Cooler Master]

Great Acquisition :D

[Dima-RussianArms]

How does JAS 39 compare to F 16, both performance and cost-wise?

[SerbPVO]

Nice!
Whatever happened to Czech avio-industry though?
Couldn't they have built something better than Gripen?

I know Yugoslavia was building its own fighter back in the 1980's, but then the economy collapse, country fell apart and rest you know :roll:

[RecceGuy]

Nice looking machine and I know that Saab have produced good machines in the past but I'm not convinced about the single engine.

[Dado]

It´s a small plane and one engine makes it cheaper to maintain.

[Svätopluk]

2 Gomer_Pyle : V ktorom meste/základni sú teraz umiestnené/ kde boli urobené tieto fotky ? Paráde, že ich už máte, budeme aj my musieť niečo podobné zohnať, ale osobne by som dal prednosť Eurofighteru.

[Dado]

2 Gomer_Pyle : V ktorom meste/základni sú teraz umiestnené/ kde boli urobené tieto fotky ? Paráde, že ich už máte, budeme aj my musieť niečo podobné zohnať, ale osobne by som dal prednosť Eurofighteru.

I actually understood a bit od that. :D
You asked what place are they stationed, and that you give advantage to Eurofighter.

But Eurofighter costs double than Gripen. ;)

[kutter]

Nice!
Whatever happened to Czech avio-industry though?
Couldn't they have built something better than Gripen?


Doubtful (at least without alot of money and alot of time). The extent of the Czechs warplane knowledge was centred on basic trainers (L-29, L-39, etc.). The closest the Czech aviation industry got to a fighter was the L-159 ALCA.
http://www.zap16.com/images/gr02_aero_l-159_alca_czech_rep_6003.jpg

[Thor]

How does JAS 39 compare to F 16, both performance and cost-wise?
F-16 Block 60 (that's being delivered to UAE 2006/2007) is at the same level, though that's still a 40 year old design and a block 60 plane cost much more than the Gripen.

JAS 39C has been up against/with F-16 and F-18 in training performing extremely well. They have also flewn against the german Mig-29s a few years ago.

Gripen is a typical swedish design: small but very deadly.

Just like our small attack subs that have been very successful when faced with the best USA and NATO have to offer.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0410/09/NYHETER-09s12-FRIplanny-60_368.jpg

[SerbPVO]

Of all countries in Europe, Sweden is the one I have always admired the most. And thats no coincidence:)

[Beagle]

Finally!! woot Gomer_Pyle, thanks for bringing excellent news :hug:

[Beagle]

2 Gomer_Pyle : V ktorom meste/základni sú teraz umiestnené/ kde boli urobené tieto fotky ?

They will be stationed in Caslav ;)

[FFanatic]

Looks good. :)

What other countries have bought (or will buy) them?

[kutter]

Looks good. :)

What other countries have bought (or will buy) them?

South Africa (19 single-seat and 9 dual-seat aircraft) and Hungary (Lease of 12 single seat and 2 dual-seat). Their also competing for the Brazilian fighter contract.

[2RHPZ]

Whatever happened to Czech avio-industry though?

Ruined by incometent managers and foreign economical inputs.


Couldn't they have built something better than Gripen?


We are not able to make supersonic ... at least no without huge amount of money. I guess that there was some plan in 70´s but they got rid of it on the Soviet´s pressure.

[AN_TPS_63A]

Whatever happened to Czech avio-industry though?

Ruined by incometent managers and foreign economical inputs.


Couldn't they have built something better than Gripen?


We are not able to make supersonic ... at least no without huge amount of money. I guess that there was some plan in 70´s but they got rid of it on the Soviet´s pressure.

Even Israel which is much more advanced technologically than those small eastern european states dropped fighter jet project..it's tough industry

[Gomer_Pyle]

Svätopluk: základnu budou mít v Čáslavi, příslušné zázemí ale ještě není zcela hotovo. Z těch nabídek co jsme dostali, byli Gripeny nejlepší p-)

The rest eight Gripens will come during August. ;)

[littlefrench]

How does the Gripen compare to a Mirage 2000-9 ?

[S'13]

Even Israel which is much more advanced technologically than those small eastern european states dropped fighter jet project..it's tough industry

The Lavi project was cancelled due to budgetary problems.

The U.S government also seemed to have had interest in having the project shut down and it offered Israel different benefits in return.

However Israel has developed the Kfir multi-role fighter.

[Gomer_Pyle]

MORE PICTURES p-)
http://wwwi.*******.com/images/2005-04-18T151016Z_01_CAS08D_RTRIDSP_2_DEFENCE.jpg
A Czech ground crew officer directs supersonic JAS-39 Gripen aircraft at the military base near the town of Caslav, 80km east from Prague April 18, 2005. The first six aircraft from the Saab/British Aerospace consortium arrived today in the Czech Republic. According to a leasing contract between the Czech Republic and Sweden fourteen JAS-39 Gripen supersonic fighter aircraft will replace outdated Soviet designed Mig-21s to modernize the Armed Forces of the Czech Republic.
http://wwwi.*******.com/images/2005-04-18T151012Z_01_CAS01D_RTRIDSP_2_DEFENCE.jpg
A supersonic JAS-39 Gripen lands at the military base near the town of Caslav, 80km east of Prague
http://wwwi.*******.com/images/2005-04-18T150947Z_01_CAS03D_RTRIDSP_2_DEFENCE.jpg
A Czech military pilot takes a picture of the pilot who has just landed in a supersonic
http://wwwi.*******.com/images/2005-04-18T150749Z_01_CAS06D_RTRIDSP_2_DEFENCE.jpg
http://wwwi.*******.com/images/2005-04-18T150236Z_01_CAS02D_RTRIDSP_2_DEFENCE.jpg
http://wwwi.*******.com/images/2005-04-18T141111Z_01_CAS04D_RTRIDSP_2_DEFENCE.jpg

[oldsoak]

Excellent aircraft - they are even better if you get the Swedish integrated air defence system ( cant remember what its called :oops: - any swedes help me out here ? ) . Czechs will not be dissapointed.

[2RHPZ]

Not related to the Grippens but to L-39ZA:

Nite flight pix (http://www.atmonline.cz/obr/l39za_noc/index.htm)

L-159 releasing GBU-12,-16 Paveway II (http://www.military.cz/links.asp?ID=http://www.atmonline.cz/video/lgb1.mpg) (2,2 MB, Aero Vodochody)
Using Maverick on L-159 (http://www.military.cz/links.asp?ID=http://www.atmonline.cz/video/maverick.mpg) (5,35 MB, Aero Vodochody)
Sidewinder attack (http://www.military.cz/links.asp?ID=http://www.atmonline.cz/video/sraam.mpg) (2,6 MB, Aero Vodochody)
HUD (http://www.military.cz/links.asp?ID=http://www.atmonline.cz/video/pristani.mpg)

[Luno]

Excellent aircraft - they are even better if you get the Swedish integrated air defence system ( cant remember what its called :oops: - any swedes help me out here ? ) . Czechs will not be dissapointed.

Are you thinking about S 100B Argus that system is quite expensive and the Sweden is the ony country that uses it but Greece are testing one plane :D
http://www.flygvapnet.mil.se/images/local/s100.jpg

[oldsoak]

no, Argus is just another facet to it -The Swedes have on of the most advanced integrated defence networks in Europe. I just cant find my notes on it. :( . The theory is that a you can "see" what a Gripen or Argus sees or even what a Swedish navy boat sees - all at a click of a mouse button and you can be miles away from it all. Its pretty impressive.

[SerbPVO]

How many L159's has the Czech AF bought?
SOme time ago, i heard about 72 being built, but only 36 being operated by Czechs, while the other half would be sold-off to other countries?

[kutter]

How many L159's has the Czech AF bought?
SOme time ago, i heard about 72 being built, but only 36 being operated by Czechs, while the other half would be sold-off to other countries?

The Czechs actually have to sell off 47 L-159s so eventually they'll have only 25 in service.

[seventy6er]

However Israel has developed the Kfir multi-role fighter.

Isn't the Kfir a pimped Mirage?

[tomcat1974]

Not really... is a differeent bird having roots in the Mirage. But suffered a lots of redesigning.

[HardThunder]

However Israel has developed the Kfir multi-role fighter.

Isn't the Kfir a pimped Mirage?

With a GE Engine, Swedish Avionics, and Austrian Communications/IFF gear (Some of it pimped from----).

I should add that at one time CZ had one of the world greatest Aviation Schools. I cannot recall what it was (I think aviation engineering metallurgy) was in some ways the best, and I think they did a great deal of work on the mid to low altitude concepts/understanding.

Funny two of the Chief IDF aviation designers are from CZ.

[OldRecon]

no, Argus is just another facet to it -The Swedes have on of the most advanced integrated defence networks in Europe. I just cant find my notes on it. :( . The theory is that a you can "see" what a Gripen or Argus sees or even what a Swedish navy boat sees - all at a click of a mouse button and you can be miles away from it all. Its pretty impressive.

The designation for the Swedish air defence surveilance, command and control system is (or at least used to be) STRIL. It's an acronym for some kind of Swedish word like "Stridsledningssystem" (literaly "combat direction system"). The STRIL system have been developed through several generations post WW-2 (like STRIL-60).
The STRIL-60 for instance transmitting target data through data-link to "vertical tape instruments" on the "dashboard" of late model J-35 Draken aircraft (this was from about 1965 on I think and quite advanced at the time), disposing of the need for verbal guidance from ground countroll. The pilot being warned that new data were being fed in on the "tape instruments", from ground control, by a "ping" in his earphones.

[oldsoak]

Thanks for that. The last version I remember, IIRC, was STRIL 90. The one I''m trying to find my notes on was netcentric and pretty impressive. for some odd reason I keep thinking that it had a different name. Maybe I'm getting confiused....

[slobo]

Will the Czechs add any unit badges to their Gripens? Anyone have pictures of the unit badges for those that will be operating the Gripen?

P.S. These are a long time coming. I read that they wound up being very politicized and almost brought down the government when the deal was done, then undone, then re-done. Glad rason prevailed. The Czechs have got themselves a smoking fighter now.

P.P.S. Spent a beautiful fall day last year at the Czech AF museum outside Prague. Nice collection -- especially if you like 1st and 2nd Generation MiGs, like Mig 23s/27s.

[S'13]

However Israel has developed the Kfir multi-role fighter.

Isn't the Kfir a pimped Mirage?

We prefer the term improved to match Israel's needs if you don't mind. :)

[HardThunder]

However Israel has developed the Kfir multi-role fighter.

Isn't the Kfir a pimped Mirage?

We prefer the term improved to match Israel's needs if you don't mind. :)

No it was an Israeli design, that was pimped off of.

The GE engines were the major thing that killed it (besides the other things).

[sp2c]

Excellent aircraft - they are even better if you get the Swedish integrated air defence system ( cant remember what its called :oops: - any swedes help me out here ? ) . Czechs will not be dissapointed.

Are you thinking about S 100B Argus that system is quite expensive and the Sweden is the ony country that uses it but Greece are testing one plane :D
http://www.flygvapnet.mil.se/images/local/s100.jpg

Brazil uses them as well

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/s100b_argus/images/S100BArgus_5.jpg

[S'13]

However Israel has developed the Kfir multi-role fighter.

Isn't the Kfir a pimped Mirage?

We prefer the term improved to match Israel's needs if you don't mind. :)

No it was an Israeli design, that was pimped off of.


It was an improved Israeli design based on the Mirage.

The Kfir was developed due to the fact that after the Six Day War the French pleaced a weapons embargo us and so we needed a aircraft that could fill in for the Mirage V while in addition Israel built an improved aircraft.

[Luno]

Excellent aircraft - they are even better if you get the Swedish integrated air defence system ( cant remember what its called :oops: - any swedes help me out here ? ) . Czechs will not be dissapointed.

Are you thinking about S 100B Argus that system is quite expensive and the Sweden is the ony country that uses it but Greece are testing one plane :D
http://www.flygvapnet.mil.se/images/local/s100.jpg

Brazil uses them as well

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/s100b_argus/images/S100BArgus_5.jpg


Thank you for the info mate :)i dident that Brazil where using the radar :) .
But I don’t like that plane (Embraer ERJ-145?) that thing did kill Saab dream off a small civil passenger plane (Saab 2000 turboprop) :(

[sp2c]

Thank you for the info mate :)i dident that Brazil where using the radar :) .
But I don’t like that plane (Embraer ERJ-145?) that thing did kill Saab dream off a small civil passenger plane (Saab 2000 turboprop) :(

yes Embraer ERJ-145

the Netherlands was also considering mounting it on a Fokker 50/60 at some point but that never happened

[jon]

no, Argus is just another facet to it -The Swedes have on of the most advanced integrated defence networks in Europe. I just cant find my notes on it. :( . The theory is that a you can "see" what a Gripen or Argus sees or even what a Swedish navy boat sees - all at a click of a mouse button and you can be miles away from it all. Its pretty impressive.

The designation for the Swedish air defence surveilance, command and control system is (or at least used to be) STRIL. It's an acronym for some kind of Swedish word like "Stridsledningssystem" (literaly "combat direction system"). The STRIL system have been developed through several generations post WW-2 (like STRIL-60).
The STRIL-60 for instance transmitting target data through data-link to "vertical tape instruments" on the "dashboard" of late model J-35 Draken aircraft (this was from about 1965 on I think and quite advanced at the time), disposing of the need for verbal guidance from ground countroll. The pilot being warned that new data were being fed in on the "tape instruments", from ground control, by a "ping" in his earphones.

To be exact, STRIL stands for Stridsledning och Luftbevakning, in english Combat Control and Air Surveillance as the system is operational 24/7 and always monitoring the swedish airspace.

[Luno]

sp2c
Fokker 50/60 is one off my favourite turboprop passenger plane but its abit noisy if you compeer it to Saab 340 =) but I think it should work fine with the Ericsson ERIEYE radar systems =)

[sp2c]

sp2c
Fokker 50/60 is one off my favourite turboprop passenger plane but its abit noisy if you compeer it to Saab 340 =) but I think it should work fine with the Ericsson ERIEYE radar systems =)

yeah the noise is definately bad ... but the damned plane is just so freaking cute :hug:

I remember seeing concept art about it but I can't find it anymore

[almkvist]

Here you go lads

http://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Jakt/124JAS39.htm

HIGH res gripens

http://www.gripen.com/images/200.37504dfd4ba2d1d2800042/Dig043172.jpg
http://www.gripen.com/images/200.1b5eba4fd5776d64d80009/3279-11_rgb.jpg
http://www.gripen.com/images/200.1b9e7fcfd57a30f468000169/3279-6_rgb.jpg
http://www.gripen.com/images/200.b6a561fd38595f5a800029/3275-52_rgb.jpg

An AMERICAN style gripen propaganda video.
Its pretty cool but also a little squeeze gayness in it. but ignore it

http://www.gripen.com/download/18.1ab11b0fac3ac8aec7fff3101/controlling_the_battlefield.wmv

[sp2c]

http://win.www.airwar.ru/image/i/spy/kngbrd-i.jpg

Fokker Kingbird :)

[tomcat1974]

BTW what is the defense budget of Czech Republic?

[Luno]

Here are some photos from pilots and mechanics from Czech Republic during their Jas 39 training in Sweden :D
http://img110.echo.cx/img110/7428/czmotorprov012zm.th.jpg (http://img110.echo.cx/my.php?image=czmotorprov012zm.jpg)
http://img110.echo.cx/img110/7023/czmotorprov047qa.th.jpg (http://img110.echo.cx/my.php?image=czmotorprov047qa.jpg)
http://img110.echo.cx/img110/3505/cz026ml.th.jpg (http://img110.echo.cx/my.php?image=cz026ml.jpg)
http://img110.echo.cx/img110/8209/041215tjeckavslutnbadge3lt.th.jpg (http://img110.echo.cx/my.php?image=041215tjeckavslutnbadge3lt.jpg)

[Gomer_Pyle]

tomcat: defence budget for year 2005 is 2 779 900 000,- CZK which is 1,81% of gross domestic product and 5,8% of national budget
Luno: nice photos :)

[2RHPZ]

@Luno

Great pix! I love that: http://img110.echo.cx/img110/3505/cz026ml.th.jpg Where did U get them?

@ Gomer

Check your email ...

[Commie]

The entire deal closed during a hockey match, Sweden folded the game so the Czech republic could win and therefore they bought our Gripens.

[Luno]

@Luno

Great pix! I love that: http://img110.echo.cx/img110/3505/cz026ml.th.jpg Where did U get them?

@ Gomer

Check your email ...

Here you are mate =) sorry for the swedish text
http://www.f7.mil.se/index.php?c=news&id=24616
and
http://www.halmstad.mil.se/index.php?c=news&id=25398

[2RHPZ]

@Luno

Great pix! I love that: http://img110.echo.cx/img110/3505/cz026ml.th.jpg Where did U get them?


Here you are mate =) sorry for the swedish text
http://www.f7.mil.se/index.php?c=news&id=24616
and
http://www.halmstad.mil.se/index.php?c=news&id=25398

Thanx! No problem with language ...


The entire deal closed during a hockey match, Sweden folded the game so the Czech republic could win and therefore they bought our Gripens.

:D

[Commie]

Anyway about that tad gay commercial for the gripen, the movie clip. I seem to recall that some of it has been used in a movie called "Hotet" is that correct?

[almkvist]

Anyway about that tad gay commercial for the gripen, the movie clip. I seem to recall that some of it has been used in a movie called "Hotet" is that correct?

Yes. they made it at the same time to save money as always. :bash:

[2RHPZ]

These who criticized such a purchase in Czech Republic (to choose Grippens instead of US jets) could be happy now ´cause according to the CZ newspaper MFDnes there were critical problems with three of six Grippens. One didn´t even manage to start and Swedes must substituted it with another one. During flight two lost communication (one piloted by Swede who almost got lost and had to be guide to the base by Czech) and one had a navigation malfunction. Czech MoD refused to comment on problems and claimed that media exaggerated this matter.

[tomcat1974]

Well that will teach them a lessong to not buy US hardware.
I just hope Romania won't pick the Grippen(not that it had any chance).

[Luno]

These who criticized such a purchase in Czech Republic (to choose Grippens instead of US jets) could be happy now ´cause according to the CZ newspaper MFDnes there were critical problems with three of six Grippens. One didn´t even manage to start and Swedes must substituted it with another one. During flight two lost communication (one piloted by Swede who almost got lost and had to be guide to the base by Czech) and one had a navigation malfunction. Czech MoD refused to comment on problems and claimed that media exaggerated this matter.

That’s interesting i know one off the Swedish flight mechanic down there and i haven’t heard anything about any problem with the new plane :| so it sound like BS

[2RHPZ]

These who criticized such a purchase in Czech Republic (to choose Grippens instead of US jets) could be happy now ´cause according to the CZ newspaper MFDnes there were critical problems with three of six Grippens. One didn´t even manage to start and Swedes must substituted it with another one. During flight two lost communication (one piloted by Swede who almost got lost and had to be guide to the base by Czech) and one had a navigation malfunction. Czech MoD refused to comment on problems and claimed that media exaggerated this matter.

That’s interesting i know one off the Swedish flight mechanic down there and i haven’t heard anything about any problem with the new plane :| so it sound like BS

It is confirmed, now it is almost news No. 1 in CZ. I´d appreciate if you ask your friend what is the matter, thanx.

[Luno]

These who criticized such a purchase in Czech Republic (to choose Grippens instead of US jets) could be happy now ´cause according to the CZ newspaper MFDnes there were critical problems with three of six Grippens. One didn´t even manage to start and Swedes must substituted it with another one. During flight two lost communication (one piloted by Swede who almost got lost and had to be guide to the base by Czech) and one had a navigation malfunction. Czech MoD refused to comment on problems and claimed that media exaggerated this matter.

That’s interesting i know one off the Swedish flight mechanic down there and i haven’t heard anything about any problem with the new plane :| so it sound like BS

It is confirmed, now it is almost news No. 1 in CZ. I´d appreciate if you ask your friend what is the matter, thanx.

I am gone call him tonight and talk about it :D but I guess it is a softwarebug in the computer system, I cant imagine it is a hardware problem in the plane :| .
The plane do have a new software version but as far as I know it where tested in Sweden without any big problem :)

[2RHPZ]

These who criticized such a purchase in Czech Republic (to choose Grippens instead of US jets) could be happy now ´cause according to the CZ newspaper MFDnes there were critical problems with three of six Grippens. One didn´t even manage to start and Swedes must substituted it with another one. During flight two lost communication (one piloted by Swede who almost got lost and had to be guide to the base by Czech) and one had a navigation malfunction. Czech MoD refused to comment on problems and claimed that media exaggerated this matter.

That’s interesting i know one off the Swedish flight mechanic down there and i haven’t heard anything about any problem with the new plane :| so it sound like BS

It is confirmed, now it is almost news No. 1 in CZ. I´d appreciate if you ask your friend what is the matter, thanx.

I am gone call him tonight and talk about it :D but I guess it is a softwarebug in the computer system, I cant imagine it is a hardware problem in the plane :| .
The plane do have a new software version but as far as I know it where tested in Sweden without any big problem :)

Yes, it is software problem, I didn´t mention that before, sorry ... Thank you.

[Resurrection]

Well that will teach them a lessong to not by US hardware.
I just hope Romania won't pick the Grippen(not that it had any chance).

Try to get your facts straight before you say something like that. The Gripen is a Swedish plane, not a US plane. :roll:

Yeah, it's quite unfortunate that a malfunction (or rather several) had to happen at this stage.

[Luno]

It’s a brand new plane =) with a new softwear and we al did know that it gone be some minor problem in the beginning ;).. But I am quite sure that the best computer technicians at Saab are working on the problem right now..
So people give the plane some times :D

[marktigger]

very nice.

Nice to see the Grippen in Cezch service.
Hopefully it and Eurofighter will end US/Russian domination of the fighter market

[tomcat1974]

Try to get your facts straight before you say something like that. The Gripen is a Swedish plane, not a US plane. :roll:
Yeah, it's quite unfortunate that a malfunction (or rather several) had to happen at this stage.

I just wrote badly ... I know that toy is Swedish ... What I ment is that should give a lesson to anyone thinking to buy things that are not made in US. Like: See... You din't buy US stuff... that's what is happening.

When Sweeden was involved in any war? Better buy combat proven F-16's.
I just hope we will do that.

[Luno]

Try to get your facts straight before you say something like that. The Gripen is a Swedish plane, not a US plane. :roll:
Yeah, it's quite unfortunate that a malfunction (or rather several) had to happen at this stage.

I just wrote badly ... I know that toy is Swedish ... What I ment is that should give a lesson to anyone thinking to buy things that are not made in US. Like: See... You din't buy US stuff... that's what is happening.

When Sweeden was involved in any war? Better buy combat proven F-16's.
I just hope we will do that.

Yes why buy leopard II tanks! they are worthless because they are not tested in war….
If you want a combat proven plane why don’t you buy a bunch off spitfires :)

[tomcat1974]

leopards 2...? why?:) we still have a ****load of T55's :)

[Adam Wilhelm]

leopards 2...? why?:) we still have a ****load of T55's :)

And how did they performed in the Gulf war, ey?

[Luno]

leopards 2...? why?:) we still have a ****load of T55's :)

And how did they performed in the Gulf war, ey?

That don’t mater they are combat tested so they are better then Leopard II
A weapon system that is not combat tested is crap and we al know that ;) so thank god for the T34/85 the best tank in the world

[tomcat1974]

We are divagating :)

We will not fight M1 's in out T55 's :) and BTW they are upgraded TR85M1... lots of israeli goodies here :).

So the most probable path we will take is F-16 MLU and upgraded with Israel help. No way for your Toy :D.
Realy our Airforce examined Grippen in 2001. They said :"Is a very nice plane. But is not what we need.Period." It won't matter how good is, it depends on the bribe :D

[Thor]

These who criticized such a purchase in Czech Republic (to choose Grippens instead of US jets) could be happy now ´cause according to the CZ newspaper MFDnes there were critical problems with three of six Grippens. One didn´t even manage to start and Swedes must substituted it with another one. During flight two lost communication (one piloted by Swede who almost got lost and had to be guide to the base by Czech) and one had a navigation malfunction. Czech MoD refused to comment on problems and claimed that media exaggerated this matter.
If there's any problems we know whose fault it is. Czechs are easter europeans.

Gripen has been in service for a few years now and has proven to be very very stable.

[Thor]

We are divagating :)

We will not fight M1 's in out T55 's :) and BTW they are upgraded TR85M1... lots of israeli goodies here :).

So the most probable path we will take is F-16 MLU and upgraded with Israel help. No way for your Toy :D.
Realy our Airforce examined Grippen in 2001. They said :"Is a very nice plane. But is not what we need.Period." It won't matter how good is, it depends on the bribe :D
Gripen has never been to Romania as far as I know. I didn't know that Romania had an airforce?

F-16 is on it's way to be outdated (unless you have the really expensive block 60 upgrade) that's why USAF and other nations with F-16 are buying JSF/F-35. Gripen has achieved air victories with 2:1 kill ratio or more when flying against american made fighters on exercise.

[Luno]

Yes I have to agree with you Thor :D .
You cant even compeer the old F16 to Gripen. F16 and FA/18 have lost nearly every dogfight to Gripen during exercise..

[tony6]

If there's any problems we know whose fault it is. Czechs are easter europeans.
Is it suppose to be a joke..?

[2RHPZ]

These who criticized such a purchase in Czech Republic (to choose Grippens instead of US jets) could be happy now ´cause according to the CZ newspaper MFDnes there were critical problems with three of six Grippens. One didn´t even manage to start and Swedes must substituted it with another one. During flight two lost communication (one piloted by Swede who almost got lost and had to be guide to the base by Czech) and one had a navigation malfunction. Czech MoD refused to comment on problems and claimed that media exaggerated this matter.

If there's any problems we know whose fault it is. Czechs are easter europeans.


Explain, please ...

[tony6]

Gripen has achieved air victories with 2:1 kill ratio or more when flying against american made fighters on exercise.

You cant even compeer the old F16 to Gripen. F16 and FA/18 have lost nearly every dogfight to Gripen during exercise.
Any sources..?
Another "forum legend"...

We will see how Your Gripens will perform against our Polish F-16 block 52+ next year ;)

[moughoun]

If there's any problems we know whose fault it is. Czechs are easter europeans.
Is it suppose to be a joke..?
no it isn't, get him talking about Jew's, it's.......interesting :roll:

[oldsoak]

I think Norwegian pilots have flown against the Gripen and I dont know what the outcome was. They were impressed with the Gripen systems though.

[Luno]

Don’t worry about him :)
we can’t blame the Czechs for this problem. if you want to blame someone blame Saab. they did send down planes with software problem… and i can’t understand how something like this could happen those problem should have been discovered during testing in Sweden and fixed on the factory…

[moughoun]

the main advantage the Gripen has is the the Swedish armed forces are very advanced in networking and didgitalisation, it's a very "plugged in" aircraft, they are ahead of of most countries in it, even the US in some area's

[tomcat1974]

Gripen has never been to Romania as far as I know. I didn't know that Romania had an airforce?

F-16 is on it's way to be outdated (unless you have the really expensive block 60 upgrade) that's why USAF and other nations with F-16 are buying JSF/F-35. Gripen has achieved air victories with 2:1 kill ratio or more when flying against american made fighters on exercise.


Wrong.. I've been there ... I actualy asked the Pilot for a pinup insignia..
http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/constanta/constanta.htm
Here you can read about the JAS-39 presence.


Yes we have a airforce. We keep updating the defense. Contraire to many other former WP countries AF, our never quit flying .From 96, we are using the Lancers Mig 21.

F16 might be on the way to be replaced by F35(if it will be ever produced). But only in some big AF. In the mean time, F16 will continue to soldier out.
About that kill ratio, it don't mean ****e. Our pilots acieved same kill ration against Mirages, Harriers, F16. So what? :)

[perdurabo]

geeezzz Czechs bought Grippen couste it suits their needs. We bought F16 cause we need difrent plane!
F16C/D/E/F/I, Mirage 2000-9, Grippen are all state of the art technology.
F16 has longer range with conformal fuel tanks. Mirage 2000-5II carry Mica EM rockets witch have grater range than AIM-120 AMRAAM but F16 with APG-68(V)9 radar has longer detection range. Grippen has better navigation unit F16 and Mirage have only GPS and Grippen has also TERCOM. Both Swedish and US radars have better resistance to ECM than French but all three can engage up to 4 targets at the same time, both F16 and Grippen have helmet targeting systems (hmm duno proper name for that system) witch Mirage lacks. al three have similiar horizontal manover capabilitys but F16 is better vertical manouvers. In CAS and Air-to-Ground F16 is better, has better stand off wepons and precision strike wep. and can carry more of it- Grippen wasn't projected as multirole fighter so it can carry less.In datalinks both grippen and F16 are equal but Link36 that is in grippen isn't NATO standart and isn't interoperational with other NATO batlefield menagment systems.
ok some data in tables: F16 | Grippen | Mirage
Range[km]: 3650 | 3300 | 3400
Tactical range low flight [km]: 360-480 | 300-400 | 330-430
Tactical range high flight [km]: 700-960 | 600-850 | 650-900
Max. interception border [km]: 285 | 270 | 295
Operational ceiling [m] 15 400 | 16 000 | 17 700
time to battle redines rerun(?)
without changing weaponary variant [minutes]: 16 | 12 | 20
with change [m]: 28 | 25 | 40
man-hour on one hour of flight[h]: 8,7 | ~12 | 15
Speeds:
Vmax on high H [Mach]: 2,05 | 1,8 | 2,3
Vmax on low H [Km/h]: 1450 | 1400 | 1470
Climb rate [m/s] 300 | 250 | 270
radar: APG-68(9) | PS-05/A | RDY Mk1
Max detection range [km]: 160 | 120 | 130
Max Detection on earth background[km]: 100 | 80 | 90
Number of tracked targets at one time: 10 | 6 | 8
Max bomb loadout [kg]: 4023 | 3129 | 3600
Max tactical range with this loadout on Lo-Lo-Lo mission profile[km]: 260 | ~150 | 175
engine power to weight ratio: 1,16 | 0,93 | 0,96
Air-to-Ground:
LasserGuided bombs: 4 GBU-16 or 4 GBU-12 | 4 GBU-12 | 2 PGM Laser 1 000KG or 4 PGM Laser 550KG
OpticalGuided bombs: 2 GBU-15 | NONE | 2 PGM TV 1000KG
Optical guided rockets: 6 AGM-65 | 4 AGM-65 | NONE
Laserguided rockets: NONE | NONE | 2 AS-30 Laser
Gliding bombs: 2 GBU-15(V)31 or (V)32 | 4 DSW-39 | 4 Apache
StandOff: 2 TaurusKEPD-350(350km range) | 2 TaurusKEPD-150 (150range) | 2 Scalp (250 range)
Anti arifield bombs: Durandal | NONE | Durandal or BAP-100
Targetingpod: LANTIRN or Litening | Litening | Damocles
how much fuel on 1hour of flight[kg]: 1,71 | 1,27 | 2,00

prabably few things changed this data is from 2001 i hope it is clear now what plane is better in what role...

[Gomer_Pyle]

Thor: http://www.czech.cz/public/evropacr.jpg
HEY DOES IT LOOK LIKE EASTERN EUROPE YOU DUMBASS?! :slap:
CAG147: I just sent you answer :hug:

[2RHPZ]

If there's any problems we know whose fault it is. Czechs are easter europeans.
Is it suppose to be a joke..?
no it isn't, get him talking about Jew's, it's.......interesting :roll:

Damn, I like Swedes, always great cooperation ... OK, every nation has their own idiots ...

[tomcat1974]

Thor: http://www.czech.cz/public/evropacr.jpg
HEY DOES IT LOOK LIKE EASTERN EUROPE YOU DUMBASS?! :slap:
CAG147: I just sent you answer :hug:
Dude you are in easter europe.:) That tag won't go away. Remains from Cold war when Europe ended to you West . Even is you are not spot in the middle of the new Europe, you will still be Eastern Europe :(

[Gomer_Pyle]

No we're not and we never were! The Czech Republic is situated in the geographical centre of Europe. So logically we are Central Europe. Everyone who says we are eastern Europe I challenge to a sword duel! :-*$ End of discussion!
And also Alejo Vidal-Quadras and Jo Leinen - don't mess with our president or we'll bomb you out with our new Gripens! :D

[Luno]

No we're not and we never were! The Czech Republic is situated in the geographical centre of Europe. So logically we are Central Europe. Everyone who says we are eastern Europe I challenge to a sword duel! :-*$ End of discussion!
And also Alejo Vidal-Quadras and Jo Leinen - don't mess with our president or we'll bomb you out with our new Gripens! :D

Hell no =)
You can’t bomb people with your hired Gripen plane :) they have to be returned in good condition so no bullet hole in the plane

[tomcat1974]

mostly they don;t have any bombs or missile for them anyway.:)
well they have 30 AIM9L :)

[RBull]

I do not see problem to admit that Czech Republic is Eastern Europe in context of past 40 years. There is nothing we can do about it, just prove with hard work and attitude that we are cool country and cool ppl.
On the other hand, that Thor's attitude makes him rather arrogant guy.

[khukuri]

mostly they don;t have any bombs or missile for them anyway.:)
well they have 30 AIM9L :)


They have bombs rockets and all the general air weapons. Its just thats the swedish airforce dont use them. But they are availble.

[khukuri]

http://www.gripen.com/gripenimages.4.17aece8f9e5eefe8b7fff2528.html?searchQuery=_keywords:%20-%20Stores%20&%20Weapons

[perdurabo]

No we're not and we never were! The Czech Republic is situated in the geographical centre of Europe. So logically we are Central Europe. Everyone who says we are eastern Europe I challenge to a sword duel! :-*$ End of discussion!
And also Alejo Vidal-Quadras and Jo Leinen - don't mess with our president or we'll bomb you out with our new Gripens! :D
ay you are so as we (geographical centre of europe is in Poland) but thats just education in "west" they just don't know **** about us so everything east of Berlin is wild plains of ester europe where the withe bears kill mamuts :lol:
BTW check where is sweeden you EASTERN Europeans!

Lenin: but Grippen Air-to-Ground ability is rather small check the numbers above.

[Luno]

No we're not and we never were! The Czech Republic is situated in the geographical centre of Europe. So logically we are Central Europe. Everyone who says we are eastern Europe I challenge to a sword duel! :-*$ End of discussion!
And also Alejo Vidal-Quadras and Jo Leinen - don't mess with our president or we'll bomb you out with our new Gripens! :D
ay you are so as we (geographical centre of europe is in Poland) but thats just education in "west" they just don't know **** about us so everything east of Berlin is wild plains of ester europe where the withe bears kill mamuts :lol:
BTW check where is sweeden you EASTERN Europeans!

Lenin: but Grippen Air-to-Ground ability is rather small check the numbers above.

No mate Sweden does not belong to eastern Europe , does the word Scandinavia ring a bell?
JAS means in swedish Jakt Attack Spaning and in english Hunt, Attack, Surveilance, and the plan can do all these thing by a simple push on a button in the cockpit and several computers configure it .
Can your hi-tech F16 do that?
, And there is nothing wrong with its Air-to-Ground ability.

[Dado]

ay you are so as we (geographical centre of europe is in Poland) but thats just education in "west" they just don't know **** about us so everything east of Berlin is wild plains of ester europe where the withe bears kill mamuts :lol:


East of Berlin lies:
http://img249.echo.cx/img249/1789/mordor9pj.jpg
;)

[Sabre]

:lol:

[perdurabo]

No we're not and we never were! The Czech Republic is situated in the geographical centre of Europe. So logically we are Central Europe. Everyone who says we are eastern Europe I challenge to a sword duel! :-*$ End of discussion!
And also Alejo Vidal-Quadras and Jo Leinen - don't mess with our president or we'll bomb you out with our new Gripens! :D
ay you are so as we (geographical centre of europe is in Poland) but thats just education in "west" they just don't know **** about us so everything east of Berlin is wild plains of ester europe where the withe bears kill mamuts :lol:
BTW check where is sweeden you EASTERN Europeans!

Lenin: but Grippen Air-to-Ground ability is rather small check the numbers above.

No mate Sweden does not belong to eastern Europe , does the word Scandinavia ring a bell?
JAS means in swedish Jakt Attack Spaning and in english Hunt, Attack, Surveilance, and the plan can do all these thing by a simple push on a button in the cockpit and several computers configure it .
Can your hi-tech F16 do that?
, And there is nothing wrong with its Air-to-Ground ability.
lol check the stats ok? :lol: :lol: :lol: i posted above comparision.
and if Czechs are eastern europeans then you are too foul check map.

[Luno]

perdurabo
But I have never said that Czechs are Eastern Europe mate ;) that where Thor I did say that Sweden belongs to Scandinavia

Are you aware that the plane on you list is the first Jas 39A Czechs have Jas 39C from batch three :D

[Wodan]

if you define the Ural as eastern end of europe, lituania is the middle of europe....

normally poland, czech republic, slovakia are defined as "middle-eastern" europe, all peoples that speak western slavic languages are in this area.....


but if you define by cuisine, its middle european together with germany, austria, alsace, southern tirol and german-switzerland

[Parzival]

How does JAS 39 compare to F 16, both performance and cost-wise?
You don't really compare it to those old planes. Gripen is the new-generation fighter so Eurofighter would be a more fair comparison.

[Parzival]

Thor: http://www.czech.cz/public/evropacr.jpg
HEY DOES IT LOOK LIKE EASTERN EUROPE YOU DUMBASS?! :slap:
CAG147: I just sent you answer :hug:
No, Thor is just an idiot. If Chezh belongs to eastern europe, Sweden does as well too.

[perdurabo]

perdurabo
But I have never said that Czechs are Eastern Europe mate ;) that where Thor I did say that Sweden belongs to Scandinavia

Are you aware that the plane on you list is the first Jas 39A Czechs have Jas 39C from batch three :D
ok sorry for mistaking you with Thor
so could you post data on C version? what changed? can it carry more weapons? is AIM-9M incorporated into aricraft or is it still AIM-9L?


You don't really compare it to those old planes. Gripen is the new-generation fighter so Eurofighter would be a more fair comparison.
no EF Typhoon is much bigger EF should be compared with Rafale new Sukhois or new F15(like K or I version), even F16 and Mirage2000 are bigger, as for "old" check F16 E/F Block 60 it has state of the art avionics (of course you can put A/B version Block15OCU or erlier then F16 will be old ;) ) i posted comparision with data if something is wrong with this data please post your opinion (with right data!)
sorry for bringing back old thread.

[Cert]

who cares if we are easter europe or not...all what he was trying to say that easter europians are incapable to operate anything correctly :roll:
Last summer I met a nice swedish girl in Thailand and I don´t remeber her to complain about my skills.So I guess I am not easter european.

[MARINO]

NICE woot

[Parzival]

perdurabo
But I have never said that Czechs are Eastern Europe mate ;) that where Thor I did say that Sweden belongs to Scandinavia

Are you aware that the plane on you list is the first Jas 39A Czechs have Jas 39C from batch three :D
ok sorry for mistaking you with Thor
so could you post data on C version? what changed? can it carry more weapons? is AIM-9M incorporated into aricraft or is it still AIM-9L?


You don't really compare it to those old planes. Gripen is the new-generation fighter so Eurofighter would be a more fair comparison.
no EF Typhoon is much bigger EF should be compared with Rafale new Sukhois or new F15(like K or I version), even F16 and Mirage2000 are bigger, as for "old" check F16 E/F Block 60 it has state of the art avionics (of course you can put A/B version Block15OCU or erlier then F16 will be old ;) ) i posted comparision with data if something is wrong with this data please post your opinion (with right data!)
sorry for bringing back old thread.
Oh god, I almost didn't understand a singel word of your post ;)
How ever
what I'm trying to say is that both eurofighter, rafael and JAS are volatile fighters which mean, F-16 etc has no chance against them in a dogfight, correct me if I'm wrong.

[HardThunder]

Oh god, I almost didn't understand a singel word of your post ;)
How ever
what I'm trying to say is that both eurofighter, rafael and JAS are volatile fighters which mean, F-16 etc has no chance against them in a dogfight, correct me if I'm wrong.

Man.

The F-16 was a low cost replacement for F-104s, F-5s and like aircraft used by Europe. The USAF had no intention of buying them.
That was Years ago.

The F-16 was never made to be a super fighter, and alone it is not. With newer weapons, and the other parts of the package it works well.

It is becoming history.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

what I'm trying to say is that both eurofighter, rafael and JAS are volatile fighters which mean, F-16 etc has no chance against them in a dogfight, correct me if I'm wrong.

You're partially wrong :)
Older F-16 versions (block 40 and below) would probably be beaten, but the newest variants (bl. 50/52+, 60) have capabilities similar, and in some cases even better that the planes you mentioned.

[Baltic]

No we're not and we never were! The Czech Republic is situated in the geographical centre of Europe. So logically we are Central Europe. Everyone who says we are eastern Europe I challenge to a sword duel! :-*$ End of discussion!


You are a little wrong. Geographical centre of Europe is in Lithuania. Here are the coordinates 54° 51(54)'N 25° 19' E. It was found by French national geographics institute in 1989.

Here is how it looks like
http://www.angelfire.com/blues/riba/images/ecen.gif

So you don't have right to call yourself a part of Central Europe I think :D

p-)

[Wodan]

No we're not and we never were! The Czech Republic is situated in the geographical centre of Europe. So logically we are Central Europe. Everyone who says we are eastern Europe I challenge to a sword duel! :-*$ End of discussion!


You are a little wrong. Geographical centre of Europe is in Lithuania. Here are the coordinates 54° 51(54)'N 25° 19' E. It was found by French national geographics institute in 1989.

Here is how it looks like
http://www.angelfire.com/blues/riba/images/ecen.gif

So you don't have right to call yourself a part of Central Europe I think :D

p-)

its just geographically correct, if you define the ural mountains as the eastern end of europe, if you define the russian-finnish; russian-belarussian, russian-ukrainian, russian-estonian, russian-latvian and the Black Sea as eastern end of Europe (I know russian border is a political thing, not geographical) it will be on another place

The institute for geography on university of Munich say its "Hildweinsreuth bei Flossenbürg in der Nördlichen Oberpfalz" (so czech republic would really be almost middle of europe)

others said its Purnuškės in Lithuania,

a polish mappist and astrome said in 1775, that Suchowola the geographical center of europe is


Other people say its Kremnické bane in slovakia or a Memorial western to České Budějovice (Budweiß?)

french geographists also say that Kleinmaischeid near Neuwied is the new center of european union


(european eastern border could just be defined by race, culture or country borders, or arbitrary like its done by using the Ural as eastern border, as europe and asia are one continent
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/800px-Tectonic_plates.png)

[perdurabo]

Oh god, I almost didn't understand a singel word of your post ;)
How ever
what I'm trying to say is that both eurofighter, rafael and JAS are volatile fighters which mean, F-16 etc has no chance against them in a dogfight, correct me if I'm wrong.
ok:
Speeds:
F16 | Gripen | Mirage
Vmax on high H [Mach]: 2,05 | 1,8 | 2,3
Vmax on low H [Km/h]: 1450 | 1400 | 1470
Climb rate [m/s] 300 | 250 | 270
engine power to weight ratio: 1,16 | 0,93 | 0,96

as you see F16 is faster and has better climb rate and its power to weight ratio means that it will achive speed faster after manouvers and it also meens that it can do manouvers faster and without loosing too much speed, aerodynamics of grippen is very good but F16 is equal and sometimes better: " all three have similiar horizontal manover capabilitys but F16 is better in vertical manouvers."
It dosen't mean that you bought ****, you bought outstanding fighter cheap to run that suits your needs well, F16 needs more care and money but it is better in strike roles (for ground attacks you have L159 and grippen will be more used in fighter role, we for defence have MiG29 but for strike only Su22 so we needed good atacker -so there comes F16)
(BTW: i love the look of Gripen)

[sp2c]

no question there

Grippen looks absolutely smoking hot

http://www.flygplan.info/images/SAAB_gripen04.jpg

[V/E]

Todays gripen picture at www.mil.se

http://www.flygvapnet.mil.se/images/local/jas39norbotten_730.jpg

[Parzival]

Oh god, I almost didn't understand a singel word of your post ;)
How ever
what I'm trying to say is that both eurofighter, rafael and JAS are volatile fighters which mean, F-16 etc has no chance against them in a dogfight, correct me if I'm wrong.
ok:
Speeds:
F16 | Gripen | Mirage
Vmax on high H [Mach]: 2,05 | 1,8 | 2,3
Vmax on low H [Km/h]: 1450 | 1400 | 1470
Climb rate [m/s] 300 | 250 | 270
engine power to weight ratio: 1,16 | 0,93 | 0,96

as you see F16 is faster and has better climb rate and its power to weight ratio means that it will achive speed faster after manouvers and it also meens that it can do manouvers faster and without loosing too much speed, aerodynamics of grippen is very good but F16 is equal and sometimes better: " all three have similiar horizontal manover capabilitys but F16 is better in vertical manouvers."
It dosen't mean that you bought ****, you bought outstanding fighter cheap to run that suits your needs well, F16 needs more care and money but it is better in strike roles (for ground attacks you have L159 and grippen will be more used in fighter role, we for defence have MiG29 but for strike only Su22 so we needed good atacker -so there comes F16)
(BTW: i love the look of Gripen)
but in a dogfight, Gripen is superior. FOr instance, they have a much better manoeuver capacity which means they can avoid the other fighters target line(or what ever u call it) . And u can compare gripen to Eurofighter and rafael, not these old panes, as I said, it's not only about how fast the airplane can go.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

And u can compare gripen to Eurofighter and rafael, not these old panes, as I said, it's not only about how fast the airplane can go.

Why you can't compare Gripen with the '3rd generation' F-16? I think that currently F-16 IS superior to Gripen in a dogfigt, because of:
- JHMCS
- AIM-9X
- better flight charasteristics

[Parzival]

And u can compare gripen to Eurofighter and rafael, not these old panes, as I said, it's not only about how fast the airplane can go.

Why you can't compare Gripen with the '3rd generation' F-16? I think that currently F-16 IS superior to Gripen in a dogfigt, because of:
- JHMCS
- AIM-9X
- better flight charasteristics
oh really, Have u looked at Gripens weapons? Do that first and than we talking. ;)

[Cifu]

And u can compare gripen to Eurofighter and rafael, not these old panes, as I said, it's not only about how fast the airplane can go.

Why you can't compare Gripen with the '3rd generation' F-16? I think that currently F-16 IS superior to Gripen in a dogfigt, because of:
- JHMCS
- AIM-9X
- better flight charasteristics

Gripen:

- Cobra or Striker helmet sight
- Iris-T
- Smaller and stealthier desing.

[HardThunder]

And u can compare gripen to Eurofighter and rafael, not these old panes, as I said, it's not only about how fast the airplane can go.

Why you can't compare Gripen with the '3rd generation' F-16? I think that currently F-16 IS superior to Gripen in a dogfigt, because of:
- JHMCS
- AIM-9X
- better flight charasteristics

Gripen:

- Cobra or Striker helmet sight
- Iris-T
- Smaller and stealthier desing.

:cantbeli:


Look first I in no way wish to take away from the makers, or users of Griffin/ Gripen. It is a nice Aircraft. Good design, and what every problems it is having, is not only embarrassing, but strange. WHAT EVER they are, they will be fixed.

I also have no wish to refute the understanding some have of aircraft, weaponry, avionics, or tracking systems (at lest not here in any event), and some of the posters show a great deal of understanding (More then me in some cases but I of course would never publicly say so). AnYway—Please if you wish to have a debate about the Griffin/ Gripen and F-16 post a topic for that, and leave the Users, and Makers (People, and Countries, and People of countries) a place to enjoy talking about it. Please give them that.

Oh and cut the crap about the battle proven T-55, 34s smart-ass. T-72, 62, 55 scrap is going for a very cheap price in Iraq these days. And we still have not see a Leo 2 there!

[Gomer_Pyle]

Today Gripens were oficially accepted to Czech Army woot
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/2.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/3.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/4.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/5.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/6.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/7.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/8.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/9.jpg
http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/11.jpg

[Luno]

Nice photos mate :D and enjoy your new toys but remember that you are only borrowing them so don’t crash them ;)

[Cert]

As far as I know we are buying them when the 10 years lease expires.That is the condition of the lease.So there will be no returning, unless they are faulty ;)

[Luno]

Hmm oki maybe you are right then =) but No smoking / food / beverages / alcohol in the plane :D

[Cert]

yes we know, its in the contract :(
we even can´t use the double-seater to join the Mile High Club.
Damn you and your bloody conditions :)

http://www.milehighclub.com/

[2RHPZ]

http://www.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5906/2.jpg

Some new pictures here (http://www.army.cz/scripts/detail.php?id=5906) @ army.cz ... and here (http://www.army.cz/scripts/detail.php?id=5907)