Canada's Neglected army

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Apparently theres been a study done about our forces:
We need 50 billion dollars to get them up to fighting strength.
+ an extra 2 billion dollars every year.
By the year 2015 we will have no more airforce.
Even with all that money it will take a good 15 years to get our army back to a respectable strength.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

http://www.canada.com/search/story.aspx?id=f859a17b-8496-4af3-9a6b-5e3e8e3b813d

[Operation Ivy]

Why is Canada doing this to your military

[wholagun]

:cantbeli:

Thats alot of money we need
I heard that our CF 18 fighters borrowed parts from the Spainards or someone when we were over in Boznia. :cantbeli:

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

We just dont have the money.
---------> edit
We borrowed batteries for our planes from the spanish and americans.

[One?]

Why do we need an army when the US is down the corner....

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

One thats the stupidist f*cking thing ive heard all day. I want you to go someplace dark and cold grab a hammer and beat yourself repeatidly then come back and repost. :slap:

[Vance]

We just dont have the money.
And your Liberal government treating it this way doesn't help either...

[Maverick77]

Why do we need an army when the US is down the corner....

Its people that think you that ****ed the Military.

At least things are starting to turn in the right direction within 25 years Canada will be one of the most brutally powerful fighting forces in history.

[MaCV-SOG]

The Liberals have always treated the Military with the up most RESPECT. They've built it through and through there's no denying that.

When you have a Country like CANADA with FREE HEALTH CARE, GOOD EDUCATION, LOW POVERTY etc etc. The majority of money goes towards that. The miliary has been cut down since the end of the Cold War which only makes sense in a way. Today though Canada will need to build again for our country is engaged in a war against Terrorism. It'll happen just be patient......

One when you say why need a military when we have the US down south......i say to u SHUt THE FUK UP you BATI CLAT. How can you say such a thing, your just a follower dude and not a leader...its people like you who make this country go slow. CAnada needs to grow to become a great nation, we've been following the BRITISH for a century. We need to shape this country and not to be a follower.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I second that Airborne249, One you should feel bloody ashamed to call yourself a Canadian because you dont deserve it. Theres alot of people that lost there lives so you could live comfy behind your computer screen, that was the most disrespectful thing I've ever heard. Even under funded we still manage to have some of the bravest well trained soldiers.

[Vance]

When you have a Country like CANADA with FREE HEALTH CARE, GOOD EDUCATION, LOW POVERTY etc etc.
Hmm maybe I should move to Canada, since it's all peaches & cream up there

[Ratamacue]

Vance, don't turn this into US vs. Canada.

[jdbjdb]

Canada has The United States and NATO, there is no need for a large military, if some bad **** came up we wouldn't leave our Candian brothers hanging.

[wholagun]

I know a guy that works in Ottawa who oversees the RCMP finaces and he told me that the military wastes alot of money it gets. The military wastes lots of cash on crap (not sure what kind but thats what he told me).

Whats the first thing that gets put on boats? Booze, not weapons not food, but Booze.

Now wasteful spending is not the solution to all problems. We still need money there is no debate about that.

It is in America's 2 billion dollar a day interest to keep Canada secure, and vise versa to keep a strong relationship with the US.

[Vance]

The Liberals have always treated the Military with the up most RESPECT. They've built it through and through there's no denying that.
My Canadian freind just called you a moron for saying that.

BTW, in your gloating about Canada, you forgot to mention the INSANE TAX PRICES

EDIT: I like Canadians, I'm just disagreeing with this one. Don't take me for an anti-Canadian

[Marxist203]

Why is Canada doing this to your military

Its not Canada...its the Liberals. Canadians want more funding for the military, there have been numerous polls that said so. Jean Cretien started to dismantle the military since he was elected, and though he balanced the budget and all he kinda turned Canada into an isolationist nation.

Back in the mid 80's to early 90's Canada's military was one of the most powerful in the world, we could conduct combat operations with out the assistance of other nations, now, we are proud if we can get 1800 of our fighting men into say...Afghanistan. Giving our Chinooks to the Netherlands, as nice as it was for our good friends, really depleted the capabilities of the Canadian forces. If we had the Chinooks we could have transported our troops to the Whaleback in Afghanistan, and of course use them for other operations. Instead, we had to rent transport...and by rent I mean actually pay cash to use American Chinooks.

If anything, Canada needs new armour capability, combat taxi and of course, a new and improved Airforce...Carriers would be nice too. Who knows, may'be the far more conservative Paul Martin will take a look at our military and save it from degeneration, our fighting men deserve that much.

[Marxist203]

We just dont have the money

Canada made over a trillion dollars last year, we're one of the richest nations in the world. We have plenty of cash.

We may have 44% Income tax, but get this...you most of it back in the tax return and you know what, I wont get screwed if I dont have the "right" kind of health insurance.

The thing is with the Liberal government is they haven't really done anything with the military, never tried to make it more efficient for its budget really. The military had to try their best with the budget they get...which is dumb.

Canada can afford to give the Forces at least 2% of the GDP, at the very least 1.8%

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Ummm dude have you been to an emergency ward lately? Go see how many people are laying in stretchers in the isle. The usuall wait to get a bed is roughly 12 hours to get a bed.
Theres much wasted $ in canada, for example take B.C. We spent $250 million dollars on 2 ferrys that we didnt even use then we sold em at scrap cost of $23 million a piece, who foots the bill why me and you my friend.
Not to mention our politicians using "private jets" paid for by us, and fancy dinners at the most expensive resteraunts. And you cant forget putting $56 million bucks on the FAC for a firearms licsense. (which in my town of Naniamo the whole data base was wiped out twice, so the people that applied and we're already accepted had to go threw the process again).

Thats some examples of wasted money/dire need of money for sure. A Trillion dollars is alot, but it sucks when its already pre-spent.

[MaCV-SOG]

Marxist stop blaming it on the LIBERALs you dork. ITS the people of CANADA who feel they dont need a big military. THE LIBERALS FUKKIN LED THIS COUNTRY TO WAR FOR GODS SAKE and you have THE NERVE to critisize the Liberals for destroying the MILITARY.

ONCE AGAIN i'll SAY ITS NOT THE LIBERALS its the people OF CANADA who feel they dont need a military that is capable. All they see is that the CF is mainly PEACE KEEPING and that they clean up the US's MESS. Which is totally wrong.....

You and I may feel that we need a strong military but i bet more then 50% of the country doesnt want one.


I'd RATHER have a better health care system then a strong military where the people of Canada wont even be a support of. Of coarse i'd like both but thats impossible. For example on the weekend another group of troops were gunna begin there training to over to Afghanistan but they could because of PROTESTERS....PROTESTING AGAINST PEACE KEEPING!

I guess thats the Liberals fault right Marxist??

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Well we never needed an massive army until 9-11. 9-11 changed alot of ****.

The way I see it keeping a strong military is like keeping a car running (mind you on a bigger scale). You gotta change the oil/oil filters, replace spark plugs, fix gasket leaks, and sometimes if your very burnt n didnt put any antifreeze in your car you replace frost plugs. And eventually regardless on how good you take care of your vehicle you need a new one.

Well our militarys "car" had its head gasket blown after gulf war 1, running on 2 cylinders, its timing is way off (thanks for sending our chinooks away, naw we dont need em). Its about time our military did some repairs and bought some new cars (i.e. tanks/strykers/CF-18's and maybe an aircraft carrier).

I didnt know what else to compare our military to so I figured cars would be a good example. I know I'll probably get flamed for it but at least its a good example and it served its purpose.

As for Canadians not feeling the "need" for a big army, I think many dont. The reason behind this is because we get alot of immagrents (spelling?) from other countries. They dont have the sense of patriotism and pride like many families have that have been here for centuries.

[jdbjdb]

Right now whats the biggest priority? They need to start replacing aircraft like the C-130's its getting old, that could put Canada's troops lives in jeporady(Bosnia, Afghanistan) Canada have any C-17's?

[Seiyuuki]

Aren't the Canadian's military in the process of acquiring the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet?

[MaCV-SOG]

Not sure....

I know for sure is that Canada is contributing a lot to the JSF.

[MaCV-SOG]

BTW, in your gloating about Canada, you forgot to mention the INSANE TAX PRICES


Them crazy tax prices....PAY FOR our EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE etc. Which you guys in the states have a problem with. Its not even a lot tho and our dollar is getting a lot better.

TAX is not crazy in Canada, TAX only makes sense in Canada..

[jdbjdb]

Them crazy tax prices....PAY FOR our EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE etc. Which you guys in the states have a problem with. Its not even a lot tho and our dollar is getting a lot better.

TAX is not crazy in Canada, TAX only makes sense in Canada..

You got us there ;)

[Spooky]

JSF is going to be a very good thing for a lot of different allied air forces.

I think Canada really needs to go through the painful process of privatizing their health care system. I heard a story (friend of a friend, type thing) about an individual who broke his leg roller blading and had to wait in a hospital for 2 days before a doctor would be able to see him.

Canadian has the potential to be a really great place but seems to get mired in bureaucratic misappropriation.

[Minjin]

Right now whats the biggest priority? They need to start replacing aircraft like the C-130's its getting old, that could put Canada's troops lives in jeporady(Bosnia, Afghanistan) Canada have any C-17's?

Priority should be on the Sea King replacement first. Then something bigger in terms of a transport aircraft. At least, in my oh-so-humble opinion.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Spooky I wouldnt doubt it, its easier to just forget about going to the hospital unless you've broken bones or are bleeding to death. As for Canada being a really great place it is, just dont hurt yourself. Besides if ya cant take a lil pain you shouldnt be Canadian ;)

Sea Kings in short are old. They cost too much to repair but yet they keep em around instead of buying models, like why not get heuy's or something else at least. Blackhawks are a dream at a $1million dollars a pop, Heuy's are loud and older design but could be worked with. Anything but those old Sea Kings would do. I'd feel safer in an ultralight helicopter to tell you the truth.

C-130's are getting old, rumor has it they are going to be taken outta service in 2010-2015. If I remeber right Americans asked us to cart over some of there equipment in C-130's. Im not sure if we do have C-17's though.

As for Canada's "insane tax's", just think California is bigger population then all of Canada. So we get taxed in the ass, besides I really dont mind except for GST (general sales tax) and in BC, PST (provincial sales tax). Which is 15% tax (both added together) on everything except food. So that brings in alot of dough to the government, also income tax takes a good chunk of your paycheck. And depending on how much you make you still might not get all of it back on tax return.

[Ratamacue]

Hueys are an amazing helicopter, reliable as hell and can take quite a beating. The Marines are updating their Huey fleet to UH-1Y's, which have extremely advanced avionics, new engines, and a four-blade rotor (much quieter). That could be a possible option for the Canadian military assuming they are not excessively expensive.

[Skaman]

We do what we can with the little money we have, and it shows. Nonthless, while our budget is limited, our training is excellent and unmatched in many aspects through-out the world. We need more money yes, but not along the lines of the excessive gorging in the united states which is purely gluttonus. Hopefully Martin will stuff us with some more dough.

[Jack Mehoff]

Why do we need an army when the US is down the corner....



At least things are starting to turn in the right direction within 25 years Canada will be one of the most brutally powerful fighting forces in history.


rofl rofl

Sure, if you decide to spend 80% of your national budget toward military.

[Skaman]

Why do we need an army when the US is down the corner....



At least things are starting to turn in the right direction within 25 years Canada will be one of the most brutally powerful fighting forces in history.


rofl rofl

I hope this guy was joking as well :roll:

[Jack Mehoff]

Who is joking doucebag19?

[Skaman]

I was talking about the guys visions of grandure that Canada is going to emerge a miliray GIANT. SO jack mehoff, I was not talking about you, UNDERSTAND? got it.....

[Jack Mehoff]

Then don't quoted me :backhand:

[Durandal]

I am not too sure that Canada's answer is spend a fortune on a NEW hitech military structure. This sort of gets back to why Austrailia needs to replace their Leo1s. I think a small balanced force that is well trained is a lot more effective than a large budget busting one for the role Canada has typically played in the last couple of decades.

Roles change. This is not a bad thing and I think...perosanlly, the world is in for some hard times economically. Maybe not, hopefully not. Canada, like the United States is isolated from the rest the world for the most part. Sure, there are countries that have the technology to reduce this isolation, but only in the most devestating, "life as we nknow it ending", sort of way. No one can invade Canada nor would we, the Americans allow it.

As far as the isolationism goes globally, well, that is a political discussion. Until Canada feels that it needs to influence politics outside their boundaries, then yes, Canada needs a larger, more active, military structure. Canada does seem to be doing well though without it.

I feel the pain though and I hope things get worked out. Canada has ahd a fine military tradition and I would REALLY hate to see that change.

Good luck guys!

[jdbjdb]

Does Canada have Apache gunships?

[wholagun]

Does Canada have Apache gunships?

No, I don't think so.

[kutter]

Another article to add to this sad state of affairs
http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1070406609850


Canadian Forces near collapse, study says
Blames years of penny-pinching

Rebuilding will take a generation


JOHN WARD
CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA—Years of penny-pinching have left the Canadian Forces on the brink of collapse and it could take an entire generation to recover, a Queen's University study warns.

The document tells the incoming Paul Martin government that it is about to walk into a disaster, with a military that can't be used because of shortages of people and equipment.

"The problem will rapidly disarm foreign policy as Canada repeatedly backs away from international commitments because it lacks adequate military forces," said the report, entitled "Canada Without Armed Forces?", released today.

It says the problems can't be solved overnight, because it takes years to purchase major weapons systems and years to train combat-ready soldiers, sailors and fliers.

"There is not much Canadians can do to save this situation, at least not in the term of the next government or even the government after that," the report says. "The descending slope is too steep and it will take too long to turn it upwards for tomorrow's government to benefit from altered policies."

The new government can only start the recovery, but the report says the recovery has to start now if there is to be any hope of restoring the military.

The study was a collaboration between the School of Policy Studies at Queens and the Conference of Defence Associations Institute, an independent defence think-tank.

It outlines major problems hobbling the military, including rusting equipment, aging infrastructure and imbalance in the ranks.

The report estimates that capital spending plans over the next five years will fall $15 billion short of what's needed.

The air force is likely to lose the oldest half of its C-130 transport fleet, without replacements, while the navy will end up without replenishment ships or replacements for its big destroyers with their anti-aircraft missiles. The army will have problems replacing its heavy truck fleet, which is grinding toward the junkyard.

"The effect on CF operational capabilities will be the complete loss of logistics sealift, airlift and landlift," the paper says.

Scrimping has also hurt the recruitment process, and that's left serious imbalances in the ranks in terms of age and experience. Some technical trades are desperate for people, while other specialities have a surplus.

[Skaman]

Does Canada have Apache gunships?

We have griffons

http://www.armyimages.forces.gc.ca/scripts/portweb.dll?query&join=and&field=description&op=contains&value=griffon&catalog=cls_images&template=eng_results_ie_1&sorton=IPTC_DateCreated&ascending=0

[NcDeuce]

We just dont have the money.
---------> edit
We borrowed batteries for our planes from the spanish and americans.

In need of a conservative government?

[Brandon]

Canada does well with the money/people they have available. Im damned proud of my friends and family that are serving overseas and here in Canada.

IMHO, there has been a sickening amount of money that has been thrown down the toilet, that could have been given to the military. EX: the $1 billion that they have spent so far on gun control. 1 billion dollars for christ sake. And some of the provincial gov'ts say they are not going to inforce all of the gun control laws. Great, so what was that 1 billion for exactly?!?! They also feel it necessary to send 100 million to Africa to help fight aids. We have been discussing this particular matter on another forum. That type of spending is sickening, cause it wont do anything. What ever happened to taking care of your own first. Then if there is any extra (which there never is) send that over (still dont agree with it) Okay, lets buy faulty grenades for our own troops that may just explode prematurely, but here 100 million for a aids prevention program that hasnt done anything in the past, and wont do anything now.

As mentioned before, Canada is filled with immigrants/foreigners that have no interest in Canadas military. There is no pride in serving your country, cause 50% percent of the peoples country is overseas. The general populations attitude toward the military is disgusting. What is it going to take to make them realize that a strong military is as important as it was in WWI and WWII. We cant depend on the UN, NATO or our neighbors to the south to defend us. What will it take for everyone in this country to realize that? As mentioned, if there were a call for all the able-bodied men to get into military service, shed be a pretty short line. The people of Canada are as much to blame as the gov't itself. Not everyone obviously, Im proud of our forces, but you know what I mean.

[NcDeuce]

As mentioned before, Canada is filled with immigrants/foreigners that have no interest in Canadas military. There is no pride in serving your country, cause 50% percent of the peoples country is overseas. The general populations attitude toward the military is disgusting.

That is sad... :|

I know of at least one Canadian on this forum who has that attitude. I think we all know who that is.

[Skaman]

As mentioned before, Canada is filled with immigrants/foreigners that have no interest in Canadas military. There is no pride in serving your country, cause 50% percent of the peoples country is overseas. The general populations attitude toward the military is disgusting.

That is sad... :|

I know of at least one Canadian on this forum who has that attitude. I think we all know who that is.

You better not be talking about me, because I love my country! I do not hold the military in disregard! If I disliked the Canadian military, I would not be an active member! You must be corrected, I hold the American militray in high disregard, there is a difference. ;)

[Red]

As mentioned before, Canada is filled with immigrants/foreigners that have no interest in Canadas military. There is no pride in serving your country, cause 50% percent of the peoples country is overseas. The general populations attitude toward the military is disgusting.

That is sad... :|

I know of at least one Canadian on this forum who has that attitude. I think we all know who that is.

You better not be talking about me, because I love my country! I do not hold the military in disregard! If I disliked the Canadian military, I would not be an active member! You must be corrected, I hold the American militray in high disregard, there is a difference. ;)
i hold you in high disregard for being alive

[Trigger]

I hold benibo in high disregard for posting that before I could.

[Red]

I hold benibo in high disregard for posting that before I could. p-)

[Roger Rabbit]

So Ducimus would you like to see more money spent on the Canadian military?

[Red]

Canada's Military is very good at one thing.Sitting in their base and pretending like they are an army.{joking} p-)

[pinkeye]

Canada does well with the money/people they have available. Im damned proud of my friends and family that are serving overseas and here in Canada.

IMHO, there has been a sickening amount of money that has been thrown down the toilet, that could have been given to the military. EX: the $1 billion that they have spent so far on gun control. 1 billion dollars for christ sake. And some of the provincial gov'ts say they are not going to inforce all of the gun control laws. Great, so what was that 1 billion for exactly?!?! They also feel it necessary to send 100 million to Africa to help fight aids. We have been discussing this particular matter on another forum. That type of spending is sickening, cause it wont do anything. What ever happened to taking care of your own first. Then if there is any extra (which there never is) send that over (still dont agree with it) Okay, lets buy faulty grenades for our own troops that may just explode prematurely, but here 100 million for a aids prevention program that hasnt done anything in the past, and wont do anything now.

As mentioned before, Canada is filled with immigrants/foreigners that have no interest in Canadas military. There is no pride in serving your country, cause 50% percent of the peoples country is overseas. The general populations attitude toward the military is disgusting. What is it going to take to make them realize that a strong military is as important as it was in WWI and WWII. We cant depend on the UN, NATO or our neighbors to the south to defend us. What will it take for everyone in this country to realize that? As mentioned, if there were a call for all the able-bodied men to get into military service, shed be a pretty short line. The people of Canada are as much to blame as the gov't itself. Not everyone obviously, Im proud of our forces, but you know what I mean.

to defend us from whom? i agree the canadian forces are underfunded, but this argument is flawed. canada's army is essentially a peacekeeping force, so it doesn't need mbt's, etc., nor does it need to "defend" the country. unless the u.s. plans on invading, canadians do not have too much to worry about. accordingly, social issues are priorities.
some point to 9-11 as justification for increased military spending. many would argue that police and health services need increased funding vis-a-vis possible terrorist acts in canada, not necessarily the military. i personally believe cida (canadian international development agency) should get more funding in combination with increased military funding. you can't fund one and neglect the other. any first-year student in security studies can attest to this...

[pAt]

Canada's Military is very good at one thing.Sitting in their base and pretending like they are an army.

Mmmm..dude.. if were are soo good at doing that why do the Americans always ask Canada to send sniper teams,Navy ships etc... over with you guys?

[Vance]

As mentioned before, Canada is filled with immigrants/foreigners that have no interest in Canadas military. There is no pride in serving your country, cause 50% percent of the peoples country is overseas. The general populations attitude toward the military is disgusting.

That is sad... :|

I know of at least one Canadian on this forum who has that attitude. I think we all know who that is.

You better not be talking about me, because I love my country! I do not hold the military in disregard! If I disliked the Canadian military, I would not be an active member! You must be corrected, I hold the American militray in high disregard, there is a difference. ;)
For what purpose, exactly? Fighting wars that politicians decide on?

''It is the politician that chooses to go to war, but it is the soldier who must fight and die.'' -Forgot his name

In other words, I hate you.

[Whistler]

The Liberals have always treated the Military with the up most RESPECT. They've built it through and through there's no denying that.

Oh my God. Thats the ****ing stupidest thing I've read all month.

Liberals, military, and "respect" are 3 words that don't belong anywhere near eachother.

I agree with you about the people of Canada though... the Liberals couldn't have gotten elected if Canadians didn't vote for them.

[Royal]

Canada's Military is very good at one thing.Sitting in their base and pretending like they are an army.

F**kwit.

As has already been pointed out here, Canadian exchange officers have served on OIF/Op Telic with US and UK forces.

I've happily worked with the Cannucks on Ops in the Balkans and in Afganistan (in the case of the Balkans while Clinton was busily covertly funding one of the warring factions and otherwise keeping the US well out of things).

[NcDeuce]

As mentioned before, Canada is filled with immigrants/foreigners that have no interest in Canadas military. There is no pride in serving your country, cause 50% percent of the peoples country is overseas. The general populations attitude toward the military is disgusting.

That is sad... :|

I know of at least one Canadian on this forum who has that attitude. I think we all know who that is.

You better not be talking about me, because I love my country! I do not hold the military in disregard! If I disliked the Canadian military, I would not be an active member! You must be corrected, I hold the American militray in high disregard, there is a difference. ;)
For what purpose, exactly? Fighting wars that politicians decide on?

''It is the politician that chooses to go to war, but it is the soldier who must fight and die.'' -Forgot his name

In other words, I hate you.

rofl

[NcDeuce]

Canada's Military is very good at one thing.Sitting in their base and pretending like they are an army.

F**kwit.

As has already been pointed out here, Canadian exchange officers have served on OIF/Op Telic with US and UK forces.

I've happily worked with the Cannucks on Ops in the Balkans and in Afganistan (in the case of the Balkans while Clinton was busily covertly funding one of the warring factions and otherwise keeping the US well out of things).

Hehe, forgive him...it is very easy to generalize an entire country when you have ducmius and ode posting stupid fluff all day.

[WARPIG]

If Canadian's generally don't feel a need for "defence" spending then I guess the military needs to be a little smaller. Cut the fat out of the military. I really doubt that is the case though. Defence is turning out to be more of a "preparedness to act" on a threat. The old thinking of " defending against invasion" is probably what more liberal politicians are using to pull funding away from your Armed Forces.
I wonder what steps have been taken to spend smarter? Things like re-organizing the logistics chains and contracting civilians to do more of those functions. The US military has been changing the structure of our fighting force to better fit the shrinking size of our Force. Canadian Forces are shrinking almost as fast. Maybe the restructuring, and redirection will help. For instance .. reserve forces are prioritized to give the more needed units or combat effective units a higher equipment priority. Instead of trying to get all of the reserves up to a level.. we try and get those units that will be used.. up to an acceptable level. Same with active units. The units that will likely be used for the current conflicts are given higher logistics priorities. We tend to fight in task forces also. It is unlikely many Divisions are deployed in their entirety. Brigades and teams are used to augment those Divisions or are put together as a team.

Also a lot of the government manufacturers are gone now, and civilian contractors take those roles. We still award contracts to those "lowest bidders" but with competition .. the low bids also have to put up the better product.

[Durandal]

It is unlikely many Divisions are deployed in their entirety. Brigades and teams are used to augment those Divisions or are put together as a team.

I think you hit the nail on the head in this post. I think Brigades are the optimum sized fighting force. Maybe Canada should focus on something similar to the Interim Brigade (assuming it works in Iraq).

[MaCV-SOG]

The Liberals have always treated the Military with the up most RESPECT. They've built it through and through there's no denying that.

Oh my God. Thats the f*** stupidest thing I've read all month.

Liberals, military, and "respect" are 3 words that don't belong anywhere near eachother.

I agree with you about the people of Canada though... the Liberals couldn't have gotten elected if Canadians didn't vote for them.

Why didnt you quote the whole thing....

I clearly said that the Liberals had buit the military over the years from WWI and WWII and to the 80. Diefenbaker too as a conservative did his part also.

I also said that the Liberals had led Canada through WAR.... so your telling me that you cant be LIBERALS, MILITARY and RESPECT together???

[EvanL]

The Liberals have always treated the Military with the up most RESPECT. They've built it through and through there's no denying that.

Oh my God. Thats the f*** stupidest thing I've read all month.

Liberals, military, and "respect" are 3 words that don't belong anywhere near eachother.

I agree with you about the people of Canada though... the Liberals couldn't have gotten elected if Canadians didn't vote for them.

Why didnt you quote the whole thing....

I clearly said that the Liberals had buit the military over the years from WWI and WWII and to the 80. Diefenbaker too as a conservative did his part also.

I also said that the Liberals had led Canada through WAR.... so your telling me that you cant be LIBERALS, MILITARY and RESPECT together???

MAC the liberals from before trudeau are alot different than now. Now everybody wants to be like Trudeau (the liberals that is). And by be like trudeau i mean a peace suffocating socialist, borderline communist.

[MaCV-SOG]

Yea yea....but the guy makes it sound like the Liberal's in Canada totally dont respect the military from the past and the present.

Of coarse today the Military suffers, but thats because of the end of the Cold War. There wasnt really a need for a big military from the late 80's to 90's.

Its not a shame that money has been cut from the Military over the decade, because the money has gone into other things like health care and etc. Today though it is different, Canada is involved in War and it time for Canada to answer the call of its allies to begin participating like we have in the past. Slowlly but surely will hopefully get there.

[MaCV-SOG]

Evan, Trudeau wasnt a peace suffocating socialist....buddy just because he saw a dream for Peace does not make him a "peace suffocating socialist". Martin Luther King Jr. had always believed in peace which is a wonderful thing.

Achieving Peace is of coarse the ultimate goal which we all want. Trudeau's values were nuthing but an inspiration to the people today and the ones to come.

During his years Trudeau kept the military strong man, we were styll involved in probaly almost every military (UN) mission during his era. Lets not forget the whole FLQ crisis where he declared MARSHALL LAW and deployed the ARMY to Quebec.

[EvanL]

Evan, Trudeau wasnt a peace suffocating socialist....buddy just because he saw a dream for Peace does not make him a "peace suffocating socialist". Martin Luther King Jr. had always believed in peace which is a wonderful thing.

Achieving Peace is of coarse the ultimate goal which we all want. Trudeau's values were nuthing but an inspiration to the people today and the ones to come.

During his years Trudeau kept the military strong man, we were styll involved in probaly almost every military (UN) mission during his era. Lets not forget the whole FLQ crisis where he declared MARSHALL LAW and deployed the ARMY to Quebec.

SO keeping our army strong means deploying it all the time? Hell no he ****ed up our military the most. SInce him we havent gotten back to what we were before him. He cut funding and equiptment and sent our troops all over just like now. If you think he was a fan of the military your sorely mistaken. youve been spending too much damn time living in Toronto. the Liberal hippies have poisoned your mind. must be something they slip in the water over there. Read some books man. Your baseless support for the liberals is appalling. grow up kid.

[MaCV-SOG]

Ok first of all...

Your getting all worked up on MY opinion and my values.

Second of All...

The Military is not fukked up,it is undermanned, being a soldier in the Canadian Army i would know. Our training is top notch, our equippment is fine and and we are ready to go whenever we are needed.

Buddy, there is no such thing as a Liberal hippie today....those are none as SOCIALIST like the NDP. So dont get mistaken by the two Parties because they are completely different.

You talk soo much about how the Liberals after Trudeau messed up the military, Brian Mulroney(PC) the PRIME MINISTER of CANada in the early 90's...what did he do for the Canadian Military during his term?? You speak like the RIGHT wing is the only answer to the Military.

MONEY has been slashed from the Military because of the people of Canada feel they need better health care, education, welfare blada blada.

Your bias towards teh Liberals is totally retarded....

[EvanL]

Ok first of all...

Your getting all worked up on MY opinion and my values.

Second of All...

The Military is not fukked up,it is undermanned, being a soldier in the Canadian Army i would know. Our training is top notch, our equippment is fine and and we are ready to go whenever we are needed.

Buddy, there is no such thing as a Liberal hippie today....those are none as SOCIALIST like the NDP. So dont get mistaken by the two Parties because they are completely different.

You talk soo much about how the Liberals after Trudeau messed up the military, Brian Mulroney(PC) the PRIME MINISTER of CANada in the early 90's...what did he do for the Canadian Military during his term?? You speak like the RIGHT wing is the only answer to the Military.

MONEY has been slashed from the Military because of the people of Canada feel they need better health care, education, welfare blada blada.

Your bias towards teh Liberals is totally retarded....

What Mulroney had planned for the military was cancelled by the incoming liberal cgovernment. For example, the Sea King replacement, and nuclear submarines.
I dont think the right is the only answer for the military. Your getting MY values all mixed up. What regiment are you serving in?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Oh my God. Thats the f*** stupidest thing I've read all month.

Liberals, military, and "respect" are 3 words that don't belong anywhere near eachother.

I agree with you about the people of Canada though... the Liberals couldn't have gotten elected if Canadians didn't vote for them.

Speaking of the stupidest thing I've heard all month I personally think Whistler takes the cake,eats it,****s it out,eats it again. You obviously dont know **** about our country buddy so go eat ass.

[EvanL]

Oh my God. Thats the f*** stupidest thing I've read all month.

Liberals, military, and "respect" are 3 words that don't belong anywhere near eachother.

I agree with you about the people of Canada though... the Liberals couldn't have gotten elected if Canadians didn't vote for them.

Speaking of the stupidest thing I've heard all month I personally think Whistler takes the cake,eats it,****s it out,eats it again. You obviously dont know **** about our country buddy so go eat ass.

I agree.
I think this quote by him sums it up the best
" I agree with you about the people of Canada though... the Liberals couldn't have gotten elected if Canadians didn't vote for them. "
Does it take a university degree to come up with that conclusion?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

No university degree needed, just plain old simple stupidity.

[[AFSOC]]

LoL...

Stupidness

[Spearin]

I haven't had time to read all the posts, so I'm sure some of my points may have already been stated:

1. It's not just been the Chretien Government that has screwed over the CF... it started back in the Trudeau days.

2. From my personal knowledge and experience, I think we do very well considering the state of the CF.

3. Yes, we need desperate help.

I am seriously considering joining the British Army...

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Do they allow us Canadians just to "join there army?" Thats interesting, were would you sign up at anyways?
Just some thoughts.

[EvanL]

Do they allow us Canadians just to "join there army?" Thats interesting, were would you sign up at anyways?
Just some thoughts.
Any commonwealth citizen can join the british. I pondered it but i would be so far from home.