Christian Europe RIP.

[fdt]

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050420/lester.gif



Christian Europe RIP

The new Pope will hasten the decline of the old continent's formative faith

Timothy Garton Ash
Thursday April 21, 2005
The Guardian

A theists should welcome the election of Pope Benedict XVI. For this aged, scholarly, conservative, uncharismatic Bavarian theologian will surely hasten precisely the de-Christianisation of Europe that he aims to reverse. At the end of his papacy, Europe may again be as un-Christian as it was when St Benedict, one of the patron saints of Europe, founded his pioneering monastic order, the Benedictines, 15 centuries ago. Christian Europe: from Benedict to Benedict. RIP.

(..................)

They are already calling the 265th pope a "transitional" figure. But so far as we know he has none of the serious health problems of John Paul II and, with the best of modern, scientific medical care, he could well survive another 10 years. That means he could live to see the European Union in 2015. This Europe would probably be more Islamic than now in its poorer parts, and more secular than ever in its richer ones. Whether that would also be a better Europe is a subject for another column.


Whole text of TGA's article here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1464532,00.html)


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[BigBaribal]

On the contrary, this pope is the best thing that could happen to Europe (too bad he's so old, but I wish him good health): it's such a joy to see all these liberals and leftists nervously making circles about him :lol:

[CMNot]

The closer we move to a secular society the better in my opinion.

[fdt]

The closer we move to a secular society the better in my opinion.What is secular society? Could You define it? It's good to know what good shall we move towards...

[CMNot]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=secular

1 Worldly rather than spiritual.
2 Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body: secular music.
3 Relating to or advocating secularism.
4 Not bound by monastic restrictions, especially not belonging to a religious order

[Erik2a4]

Secular society is often lumped together with "moral relativism" for good reason.

I'll keep my Judeo-Christian faith, and raise you one secular government espousing the situational ethics founded by that Judeo-Christian faith. :D

[CMNot]

Meh I was merely expressing my opnion on the article :)

I come from what I see as a very secular society (Britain), one that is only becoming more so, which is where my standing comes from.

[BigBaribal]

The closer we move to a secular society the better in my opinion.


People praising the "secular society" concept have often very "non-secular" hidden agendas.

In fact, a secular society is in this case just seen as an empty space that one can fill easily with one's own non-secular characteristics. In fact, it's the tactic of the cuckoo bird ;)

[hughdotoh]

The closer we move to a secular society the better in my opinion.

If that happens, the Irish and the Greeks would have to civilize Europe all over again.

[fdt]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=secular

1 Worldly rather than spiritual.
2 Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body: secular music.
3 Relating to or advocating secularism.
4 Not bound by monastic restrictions, especially not belonging to a religious orderI asked You to define a term "secular society" not a word "secular".

[CMNot]

Sorry :oops:

From wikipedia.com


...in society, any of a range of situations where a society less automatically assumes religious beliefs to be either widely shared or a basis for conflict in various forms...

And in gov't while Im at it...


...a policy of avoiding entanglement between government and religion...

[FrogMan]

The guy hasn't yet celebrated his first Sunday Mass as a pope, and yet everybody seems to know what's going to happend until his death.
Recent history has shown that you have no clue what to expect from a new pope (John XXIII, John Paul II, for example).

[Lokos]

BigBaribal:

Is violent atheism a 'religion'? I'm not sure about the technical definition, but I'm one of those people who rails against the very concept of a God. In fact, even if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there was a God, I wouldn't believe in him/her/it.

Can that be considered a religious view?

Lokos

[BigBaribal]

BigBaribal:

Is violent atheism a 'religion'? I'm not sure about the technical definition, but I'm one of those people who rails against the very concept of a God. In fact, even if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there was a God, I wouldn't believe in him/her/it.

Can that be considered a religious view?

Lokos


I don't see the whole matter in the angle of faith, but I see the religion as a part of a civilisational space.

Even if I was a total atheist (I can't say I'm a full-time believer either), I would equally say that a religion is an important civilisational structure, a structure which is operating in every nation or culture.

That said, it's up to you if you want to live in a society influenced by your structures or in a society influenced by alien structures. Because empty cilivisational spaces don't exist or don't stay empty long (even the laicist system is in some way a religious system, by "divinizing" in some sense the concept of state and mankind).

As a resume, I could say that a religion is an politically, socially and psychologically useful hypothetical proposal.

[BigBaribal]

Is violent atheism a 'religion'? I'm not sure about the technical definition, but I'm one of those people who rails against the very concept of a God. In fact, even if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there was a God, I wouldn't believe in him/her/it.


Btw, I can see where you're coming from. ;)

And if I look at the religious thema only under the civilisational aspect, your position stays under the same civilisational parameters like mine. Perhaps with very big contrasts, but still in the same thematic.

[fdt]

BigBaribal:

Is violent atheism a 'religion'? I'm not sure about the technical definition, but I'm one of those people who rails against the very concept of a God. In fact, even if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there was a God, I wouldn't believe in him/her/it.

Can that be considered a religious view?

Lokoshttp://shop.oaza.co.yu/user/include/011/images/items/diploma-najvecem-deliji.jpg

http://shop.oaza.co.yu/user/include/011/images/items/portikla-c.zvezda.jpg

Na moje nebo jedna zvezda sela,
ona je brate crvena i bela.
Ajdemo Bogu da se pomolimo,
da pevamo i da vas pobedimo.
Zvezda je ime sampiona,
ima nas dvesta milijona,
Zvezda je da se pamti dugo,
Pobeda, ili nista drugo.

Sure... :D

[Wodan]

Benedikt the XVI. is a good pope, he has seen what a secular liberalistic society without of statical moral standards like Weimar Republic leads to (it gets broken by ultra-lefts and ultra-rights), and so he will try to prevent that happening again!

[Werewolf01]

I wish the Pope well. It is nice to see somebody with some moral fortitude. If a church does not adhere to its standards it is not much of a church.