How are US casualties counted? [Archive]

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Haiw

12-03-2003, 05:26 PM

just curious, since of course any person that dies from his wounds might still live a few days, weeks or even longer (although that's rather unlikely these days i'd say) before he/she dies from them. now how are these counted? i mean, everytime we see another news report of 'x US soldier(s) killed today in iraq by attack etc.', but that's always about a soldier that dies right away...i happened to see a documentary about a US hospital in germany and there we're at least several cases there where some patients died some days after they arrived...so, are those still counted in the 'killed in action' or do they dissapear from the OIF KIA statistics?

Seoulstriker

12-03-2003, 05:49 PM

Seoulstriker

12-03-2003, 05:54 PM

Subject: DoD Identifies Army Casualties
To: DODNEWS-L@DTIC.MIL

No. 839-03
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Nov 10, 2003
(703)697-5131(media)
(703)428-0711(public/industry)

DoD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today the deaths of two soldiers who
were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Staff Sgt. Gary L. Collins, 32, of Hardin, Texas, was killed on Nov. 8,
in Fallujah, Iraq. Collins was riding in a Bradley Fighting Vehicle when it hit an
improvised explosive device. The soldier died of his injuries. Collins was
assigned to 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry Regiment, 1st Infantry Division, based in
Fort Riley, Kan.

Sgt. Nicholas A. Tomko, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pa., was killed on Nov. 9 in
Baghdad, Iraq. Tomko was the door gunner in a convoy vehicle when his team came
under small arms attack. The soldier died of his injuries. Tomko was assigned to
the 307th Military Police Company, U.S. Army Reserve, New Kensington, Pa.

These incidents are under investigation.

Subject: DOD Identifies Army Casualties
To: DODNEWS-L@DTIC.MIL

No. 723-03
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Oct 01, 2003
(703)697-5131(media)
(703)428-0711(public/industry)

DOD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today that the deaths of Sgt. Andrew
Joseph Bad****, 26, and Pfc. Kristian E. Parker, 23.

Bad**** drowned Sept. 29 as he tried to rescue another soldier whose
vehicle had entered a canal near Abu Ghraib Prison, Iraq. He was assigned to the
1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, Fort Bragg, N.C.

The incident is under investigation.

Parker died on Sept. 29 of non-combat related injuries at Camp AS
Sayliyah, Qatar. She was assigned to the 205th Engineer Battalion, U.S. Army
National Guard, Slidell, La.

The incident is under investigation.

Subject: DoD Identifies Army Casualties
To: DODNEWS-L@DTIC.MIL

No. 695-03
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Sep 23, 2003
(703)697-5131(media)
(703)428-0711(public/industry)

DoD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today the deaths of four soldiers
who were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Capt. Brian R. Faunce, 28, of Philadelphia, Pa., died on Sept. 18 in Al
Asad, Iraq. Faunce was moving in a Bradley fighting vehicle when his vehicle
crossed under some low laying power lines. The soldier reached up and grabbed the
lines and was fatally injured. Faunce was assigned to Headquarters and Headquarters
Company, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, Fort Carson, Colo.

Two soldiers were killed in a mortar attack on Sept. 20 in Abu Gareeb,
Iraq. Killed were:

Spc. Lunsford B. Brown II, 27, of Creedmore, N.C. Brown was assigned to
A Company, 302nd Military Intelligence Battalion, Patton Barracks, Germany.

Sgt. David T. Friedrich, 26, of Hammond, N.Y. Friedrich was assigned to
B Company, 325th Military Intelligence Battalion, U.S. Army Reserve, Waterbury, Conn.

Spc. Paul J. Sturino, 21, of Rice Lake, Wis., died on Sept. 22 in Quest,
Iraq. Sturino died from a non-combat weapons discharge. Sturino was assigned to B
Battery, 2nd Battalion, 320th Field Artillery Regiment, Fort Campbell, Ky.

These incidents are under investigation.

i wonder if the power line death is a 'combat death'.

Subject: DoD Identifies Army Casualties
To: DODNEWS-L@DTIC.MIL

No. 762-03
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Oct 17, 2003
(703)697-5131(media)
(703)428-0711(public/industry)

DoD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today the death of three soldiers
who were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom on Oct. 16 in Karbala, Iraq. The
soldiers were attempting to negotiate with armed men who were congregating on a road
near a mosque after curfew. The Iraqis opened fire killing three soldiers and
wounding seven others.. Killed were:

Lt. Col. Kim S. Orlando, 43, of Tennessee.

Staff Sgt. Joseph P. Bellavia, 28, of Wakefield, Mass.

Cpl. Sean R. Grilley, 24, of San Bernardino, Calif.

The soldiers were assigned to the 716th Military Police Battalion, 101st
Airborne Division (Air Assault), based in Fort Campbell, Ky. Orlando was the
commanding officer of the 716th Military Police Battalion.

The incident is under investigation.

Subject: DoD Identifies Army Casualties
To: DODNEWS-L@DTIC.MIL

No. 873-03
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Nov 19, 2003
(703)697-5131(media)
(703)428-0711(public/industry)

DoD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today the deaths of two soldiers who
were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Capt. Nathan S. Dalley, 27, of Kaysville, Utah, died from a non-hostile gunshot
wound on Nov. 17 in Baghdad, Iraq. Dalley was assigned to the 2nd Brigade, 1st
Armored Division, Baumholder, Germany.

Staff Sgt. Dale A. Panchot, 26, of Northome, Minn., was killed on Nov. 17, south of
Balad, Iraq. Panchot was on patrol when he was fatally injured by enemy fire.
Panchot was assigned to B Company, 1st Battalion, 8th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade
Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division (Mech), Fort Carson, Colo.

These incidents are under investigation.

Subject: DoD Identifies Army Casualties
To: DODNEWS-L@DTIC.MIL

NEWS RELEASE from the United States Department of Defense

No. 339-03
(703)697-5131(media)
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
May 19, 2003
(703)428-0711(public/industry)

DOD IDENTIFIES ARMY CASUALTIES
The Department of Defense announced today that Master Sgt.
Williams L. Payne, 46, of Michigan, was killed May 16, in
Haswah, Iraq. Payne was examining unexploded ordnance when the
ordnance exploded causing his death.

Payne was assigned to 2nd Battalion, 70th Armor Regiment, Fort
Riley, Kan. The incident is under investigation.

The Department of Defense also announced today that Spc. Rasheed
Sahib, 22, of Brooklyn, N.Y., was killed on May 18, in Balad,
Iraq. Sahib and another soldier were cleaning their weapons
when the other soldier's weapon discharged striking Sahib in the
chest.

Sahib was assigned to 20th Field Artillery Regiment, 4th
Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas. The incident is under
investigation.

i am really wondering if non-combat deaths are 'counted' by the media.

Argyll

12-03-2003, 06:42 PM

SFontaine

12-03-2003, 06:55 PM

96B

12-03-2003, 06:56 PM

We need not judge the war by the men we lose, but by the accomplishments they make. R.I.P.

Seoulstriker

12-03-2003, 07:24 PM

The Department of Defense announced today the death of three soldiers
who were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom on Oct. 16 in Karbala, Iraq. The
soldiers were attempting to negotiate with armed men who were congregating on a road
near a mosque after curfew. The Iraqis opened fire killing three soldiers and
wounding seven others

Wish I knew more about this...

http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/images/orlandokims.jpg

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/images/zzorlando-kim.jpg

http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/orlandokims.html

Army Lt. Col. Kim S. Orlando

43, of Tennessee.
Orlando and other soldiers were attempting to negotiate with armed men who were congregating after curfew on a road near a mosque in Karbala, Iraq. The Iraqis opened fire killing three soldiers and wounding seven others. The soldiers were assigned to the 716th Military Police Battalion, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Orlando was the commanding officer of the 716th Military Police Battalion. Died on October 16, 2003.

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/2314074.html

101st Airborne remembers lieutenant colonel killed in Iraq

Associated Press

FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. — The highest-ranking Army officer killed in hostile fire in Iraq never hesitated to lead his soldiers personally, whether on a three-mile run in below-freezing temperatures or on patrol in the streets of Karbala.
That was how comrades from the 101st Airborne Division remembered Lt. Col. Kim S. Orlando during an Oct. 24 funeral service.

Six pallbearers, decked in the dark-green ceremonial uniforms bearing the “Screaming Eagle” patch of the 101st, waited patiently to bring Orlando’s casket into the brick-and-glass chapel. They stood at attention for nearly an hour as hundreds of family, friends and soldiers filed in.

Maj. Darryl Johnson, of the 716th Military Police Battalion, said Orlando, the battalion commander, was “constantly moving to the front and disregarding his own safety.”

Orlando’s funeral was held the same day the Army announced that another soldier from the division was killed by small arms fire in Mosul, Iraq. That soldier was not immediately identified.

Orlando’s death shocked soldiers and friends.

Terry Moreau, a retired colonel and former commander of the 716th, said he has received numerous messages of condolence, some angry, since Orlando was killed.

“Expletives were not deleted,” he said. “I got to tell you, there’s a lot of frustration there” among Orlando’s men.

Orlando, 43, was posthumously award the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart. He was among three Fort Campbell soldiers killed Oct. 16 in a clash with gunmen guarding the headquarters of a Shiite cleric in southern Iraq.

The two other soldiers killed were Staff Sgt. Joseph P. Bellavia, 28, of Wakefield, Mass.; and Cpl. Sean R. Grilley, 24, of San Bernardino, Calif. Services for Bellavia and Grilley were pending, according to a statement from Fort Campbell.

The battalion comprised no fewer than 400 soldiers, and Orlando made it a point to learn the name of each one, said Sgt. Maj. Rodney Smith, a battalion member.

“For a battalion commander to know your name, that touches anybody,” Smith said.

His soldiers and his family were paramount to Orlando. When not on duty, he spent as much time as possible with his wife, Sherry, and his two sons, Gregory, 16, and Jason, 10.

He enlisted in the Army as a military policeman in 1982 and was commissioned at Fort Benning, Ga., in 1986. He served in the 1991 Persian Gulf War, and thereafter rose quickly to the rank of lieutenant colonel. He was picked to study at the FBI’s National Academy in Quantico, Va. — an exclusive honor for military policemen.

Friends and comrades said Orlando excelled in everything he expected from his soldiers, including physical fitness.

Chaplain Maj. Steve Turner recalled participating in a particular run Orlando led his soldiers on one frigid January morning. Shorts only — no warmup pants; jackets were optional.

“We got to the line; the whistle blew. And Col. Orlando led the pack,” Turner said. “He led by example.”

When the service ended, soldiers emerged from the chapel, adjusting their black berets. A funeral procession left Fort Campbell for Nashville National Cemetery for a private burial in Tennessee, where Orlando grew up.

Two other Army lieutenant colonels have died in the war, one in a traffic accident and one of non-combat injuries.

http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/images/bellaviajosephp.jpg
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/psycho1.jpg
^he reminds me of norman from the 1998 movie 'psycho'. :|

Army Staff Sgt. Joseph P. Bellavia
28, of Wakefield, Massachusetts.
Bellavia and other soldiers were attempting to negotiate with armed men who were congregating after curfew on a road near a mosque in Karbala, Iraq. The Iraqis opened fire killing three soldiers and wounding seven others. The soldiers were assigned to the 716th Military Police Battalion, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Died on October 16, 2003.

http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/images/grilleyseanr.jpg

Army Cpl. Sean R. Grilley

24, of San Bernardino, California.
Grilley and other soldiers were attempting to negotiate with armed men who were congregating after curfew on a road near a mosque in Karbala, Iraq. The Iraqis opened fire killing three soldiers and wounding seven others. The soldiers were assigned to the 716th Military Police Battalion, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Died on October 16, 2003.

i'm sorry about the repeats, but i am just getting it from fallenheroesmemorial.com.

:( :( :( :(

Seoulstriker

12-03-2003, 07:27 PM

I have a feeling that if you die of combat related wounds then it is classed as KIA.

Good question there Seoul,do the media get given these Cas.No.s from the DOD or do they obtain it from a different source?

i have a feeling they include all deaths in iraq. whenever i hear news reports, they always say, "this brings the total count of soldiers killed in Iraq to..." they don't say 'deaths', and i don't think they include suicides.

i am really wondering how they count... :|

usa320

12-03-2003, 10:08 PM

were attempting to negotiate with armed men

I think they should have just shot them, they were armed and wandering around after curfew. I woulda shot them, maybe not fatally, but so they were immobilized for the moment.

ShotOver

12-04-2003, 12:02 AM

Yeah, a 5.56 threw the kneecap would drop em` and teach them a lesson.

NcDeuce

12-04-2003, 12:10 AM

MOSUL, Iraq (Nov. 26, 2003) - The recent deaths of Command Sgt. Maj. Jerry Wilson, command sergeant major of the 502nd Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), and his driver, Spc. Rel Ravago, brought swarms of anguished soldiers to a memorial ceremony at a gymnasium on a 502nd compound in Mosul.

Wilson and Ravago were killed in an ambush Saturday in Mosul.

Wilson's 27-year Army career began as an infantryman with the 172nd Infantry Brigade at Fort Wainwright, Ala. After positions as squad leader and drill sergeant at Fort Benning, Ga., ranger instructor and platoon sergeant at Fort Dahlonega, Ga., he landed at Fort Kobbe, Panama in 1986. It was here where he met Capt. Joseph Anderson.

Wilson and Anderson, now a colonel in command of the 502nd, would later lead thousands of soldiers throughout Operation Iraqi Freedom, from the invasion of Baghdad to the ongoing rebuilding and peacekeeping mission in Mosul, Northern Iraq's largest city.

Anderson opened the ceremony by recalling the memories he had made in his 17-year friendship with Wilson, adding , "I had never thought I would be giving a eulogy for my air assault buddy."

http://www.gulf1.com/military/all/mosul/1126memorial4.jpg

"His only aspiration in life was to be with and lead soldiers," Anderson said. "We do indeed already miss him."

Wilson's career as a 101st "Screaming Eagle" was relatively short. According to Command Sgt. Maj. Marvin Hill, command sergeant major of the 101st, Wilson was somewhat anxious in his transition to the division in the winter of 2001. Having previously held Wilson's position with the 502nd,, Hill was full of support for Wilson.

At the ceremony, Hill mentioned that just two days before the ambush, he took the time to congratulate Wilson on his adjustment to "the Air Assault lifestyle." During a meeting at the Division Main compound in Mosul involving all battalion and brigade sergeants major in the 101st and newly appointed sergeant major of the Army, Command Sgt. Maj. Kenneth Preston, Hill praised Wilson's evolution as a Screaming Eagle.

"Sergeants major tend to not tell each other how proud we are and how we feel about each other," Hill said. "But I did that day, and I'm glad I did. So often there are things we wish to say to one another, but never do. Well, I'm glad I told Sergeant Major Wilson that day."

Wilson is survived by his mother, Daisy, and two sons, Sidney and Mantrell, all of Thomson, Geo.

A Glendale, Calif., native, Ravago's first and only duty station was at Fort Campbell, Ky., as an infantryman with Company B, 1st Bn., 502nd. He arrived at his unit March 2002, one year before deploying to Iraq. After the deployment, he was personally selected to be brigade command sergeant major's driver, according to Pfc. Brad Zais, a fellow infantryman who spoke at the ceremony.

"When Ravago found out that Command Sergeant Major Wilson wanted him to be his driver, he was so happy," Zais said. "The company was different after he left and became his driver. On the days he would return to the company, smiles would form all around him."

Zais remembered Ravago as a soldier who never let the deployment diminish his spirits.

"He always had a smile on his face," Zais said, "no matter what he was going through."

Ravago was 26 years old. He is survived by is mother and father, Mary-Anne and Rel Ravago, of Glendale.

R.I.P.

http://www.gulf1.com/military/all/mosul/1126a.htm

Seoulstriker

12-04-2003, 03:27 PM

Subject: DoD Identifies Army Casualty
To: DODNEWS-L@DTIC.MIL

No. 914-03
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Dec 04, 2003
(703)697-5131(media)
(703)428-0711(public/industry)

DoD Identifies Army Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was
supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Sgt. Ryan C. Young, 21, of Corona, Calif., died on Dec. 2 at Walter Reed
Army Medical Center, Washington, D.C., of wounds he received Nov. 8 in Fallujah,
Iraq. Young died of injuries sustained when an improvised explosive device hit his
vehicle. Young was assigned to A Company, 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry Regiment,
1st Infantry Division, based in Fort Riley, Kan.

The incident is under investigation.

i wonder if this is a KIA. :( :(

Argyll

12-04-2003, 03:29 PM

Yes because it says his wounds were the result of an IED!!,and therfore combat related

Seoulstriker

12-04-2003, 03:32 PM

Yes because it says his wounds were the result of an IED!!,and therfore combat related

so then time of injury does not matter? he was injured for nearly a month and then he died.

Argyll

12-04-2003, 04:00 PM

Ah I see what you mean!
I think perhaps that there is no timescale if the wounds were recieved in combat,ot may also depend on how they triage them,as to whether they would just be classed as WIA,until the patient recovers,sufficiently to make these wounds classed as non life threatening,if however these wounds were lifethreatening at the time,and they subsequently died,irrelevant of the timespan then it maybe classed as KIA?
have you tried to do a search in google for the defination,as this is quite an interesting topic!!

martinexsquaddie

12-04-2003, 04:05 PM

there was a bloke died a couple of years ago had a bullet or piece of sharpnel left in his skull after WW11 he was nearly 70 or so when the piece of metal moved and killed him.
at the inquest the cause of death was enemy action :(

James

12-04-2003, 07:08 PM

Wounded in Action (WIA)
Killed in Action (KIA)
Died of Wounds (DOW)

KIA and DOW are both results of combat, but they are seperate categories.

An article I recently read tallied total U.S. Casualties at about 3,000; about 500 dead (KIA,DOW, accidents, and... non combat weapons discherges currently under investigation...) and about 2500 WIA. The article also said that about 7000 military personnel had been evacuated from Iraq for medical reasons unrelated to combat - everything from mystery death lung filling ilness to someone needing a gynecological procedure that couldn't be performed at a field hospital.

An interesting side note, and one that I think is related to XASA's post about body armor -

American KIA/DOW in Iraq amount to about 350 soldiers. As a proportion of total combat casualties, that is just over 8%. Until very recently, the proportion was more like 30-35%.

God bless the OTV and modern medicine. ;)