interesting videos... WARNING: graphic material

[GLax]

Disclaimer #1: these videos may include some graphic material including (but not limited too) blood and gore...

Disclaimer #2: under NO circumstances do the views of these videos represent my beliefs

allrite, found these on another forum, thought they were kind of interesting. they were made by people who are OBVIOUSLY peace activists. so, with that in mind, i did NOT post them to start a flame war. if it gets that way, can somebody please lock it down? lets try and be civil here people. enjoy, theyre actually pretty well made flashes...


http://bushflash.com/pl_lo.html

http://bushflash.com/occupied.html

[Seraphim]

Gross, I saw the mutilated babies and I just turned that crap off.

[GLax]

yea, i found that quite disgusting myself.

[hood]

Cool movie trailer, can't wait for the sequel.

67% of gulf war veterans have children with deformities? I'd be curious to see facts back that up. Radiation levels in Baghdad 1000% higher after roughly 1 week of engagements with far less combat than in other parts of the country? Did they take into account the looted radioactive material depots?

[S'13]

Did they take into account the looted radioactive material depots?

I read that Iraqis were stealing equipment from the destroyed Osirak nuclear reactor and were even using drums that contained radioactive material to hold drinking water inside...

[MarineSniper8541]

Typical anit-war activist propaganda.

Take some genuine concerns, inflate them with bogus numbers, mix it in with some photos and film of unknown origin...bingo....instant propaganda.

Joseph Goebels would be proud.

[GLax]

Cool movie trailer, can't wait for the sequel.

67% of gulf war veterans have children with deformities? I'd be curious to see facts back that up. Radiation levels in Baghdad 1000% higher after roughly 1 week of engagements with far less combat than in other parts of the country? Did they take into account the looted radioactive material depots?

thats why i found them interesting, i didnt know where they got the information from, and i was wondering if somebody from around here could help clearify it...

[Zach R.]

That was just plain disgusting.

[hood]

Yeah I've seen all of the baby pictures before, as most are old. You have to take it all with a grain of salt, as there's been stories in ******* and CNN over the last 5 years where Iraqi doctors admitted that Saddam's regime would stockpile dead babies, independent of what the cause of death was, from various parts of the country and have the bodies shipped down to Baghdad to display for the cameras to work against UN sanctions.

[Seoulstriker]

wait, those photos are of birth defects???? dude!


http://www.afsc.org/pwork/0102/010216.jpg
http://www.hydrocephalus.org/facts/

Hydrocephalus is one of the most common "birth defects" and afflicts in excess of 10,000 babies each year.

dude!!! hydrocephalus is a common birth defect??? no way!!! :roll:


More than 50% of hydrocephalus cases are congenital.

no way!!!


Studies by the World Health Organization show that one birth in every 2,000 result in hydrocephalus.

no way!!! :roll:


i can also put a flash animation together showing common birth defects and say that it is the fault of Old Europe's anti-US stance.

[Uncle Sam]

Show me FACTS...!!! It's all useless propaganda distributed by followers and media junkies.

[bison]

it really is amazing to see just how easy and sickly numbers can be corrupted through the use of poorly applied statistics. :( for example what percentage of gulf war vets even have children to be deforemed, how many people were polled to come up with these numbers, how was the polling done, how do they define vets, how do they define deformities... the list goes on and on.. :cantbeli:

[Seoulstriker]

it really is amazing to see just how easy and sickly numbers can be corrupted through the use of poorly applied statistics. :( for example what percentage of gulf war vets even have children to be deforemed, how many people were polled to come up with these numbers, how was the polling done, how do they define vets, how do they define deformities... the list goes on and on.. :cantbeli:

worse: they just make the statistics up. if they can use pictures of common birth defects to show the 'horrors' of DU, then they can just lie with statistics. :|

[Frens]

Typical anit-war activist propaganda.

I agree with you!

[Saranof]

But there is a certain amount of truth. Saw something about the bombed nuclear reactors on CBS 69 mins a couple of years ago, and it wasn't nice..

But then, CBS are of course a bunch of leftist liberal raghead freedomheting frenchies!
Like all people who have different opinions.

[Seoulstriker]

But there is a certain amount of truth. Saw something about the bombed nuclear reactors on CBS 69 mins a couple of years ago, and it wasn't nice..

But then, CBS are of course a bunch of leftist liberal raghead freedomheting frenchies!
Like all people who have different opinions.

my 'favorite' 69 minutes episode was where they tried to say that Bush started OIF beacuse Cheney told him to because Cheney wanted to help halliburton and bechel because Cheney was part of those corporations before. :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

[hood]

well, now that you mention it, that part is true, but the whole radiation causing cancer thing is talking crazy! :D

[usa320]

I believe that all the medical problems for Gulf War I vets came from other things, not DU. I think when they bombed alot of weapons depots and hangars they might not have know there were chemical weapons in them, so after they came down to poke around on the ground the brew of chemicals could have poisoned them

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I believe that all the medical problems for Gulf War I vets came from other things, not DU. I think when they bombed alot of weapons depots and hangars they might not have know there were chemical weapons in them, so after they came down to poke around on the ground the brew of chemicals could have poisoned them

So ahh what do you have to prove that? DU is dangerous, any Uranium is dangerous. I'd like to see some studies that this stuff is safe before I make my opinion.

[hood]

Any bloke can tell you that you won't die from the DU radiation. It's usually the dart traveling at 1000+ miles per hour that gets ya. :)

[GLax]

So ahh what do you have to prove that? DU is dangerous, any Uranium is dangerous. I'd like to see some studies that this stuff is safe before I make my opinion.

i found this article...

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/b04151999_bt170-99.htm

might help... :D

[millhouse]

www.churchofeuthanasia.org

[Shiruzu]

Show me FACTS...!!! It's all useless propaganda distributed by followers and media junkies.


Maybe this helps a little:
This seems to be the source of the author (http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/index.html?page=/iraqinfo/gulfwar/du/syndrome.html)


But let me guess: For you this is no correct source, but a islamic-communist-terrorist web-site :roll:

[Chris196]

Birth defects and a high infant mortality rate in a 3rd World country???

OMG, it HAS to be from the depleted uranium!

[One?]

Yup depleted Uranium actualy enhances the air, water, and soil. It makes trees grow, children are smarter and could live longer.


Come on how the heck can you deny the fact that DU has fuked up Iraqi civilians since 91? Have they been stealing Uranium since 91?

[hood]

As has been mentioned above, the "fact" that it's messed up Iraqi children is highly questionable. Hard facts on the subject seem to be rather lacking as there's been so much deceit and deception on the part of Saddam's regime.

[ShotOver]

haha, that Church of Euthanasia site is pretty wack, tellin you to kill yourself for the good of the world...

You gotta start worrying about these people, where do they get their ideas from?

http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/snuffit2/si2cover.gif


Are these people for real? or is it a joke... :|

[Shiruzu]

As has been mentioned above, the "fact" that it's messed up Iraqi children is highly questionable. Hard facts on the subject seem to be rather lacking as there's been so much deceit and deception on the part of Saddam's regime.

Thats the author of this text:
http://www.sdnl.nl/images/gunther.jpg
Prof Dr. Dr Siegwart Horst Gunther

He's been a member of the resistance-group around Graf Stauffenberg, later he was improsoned in the KZ Buchenwald, later he studied medicine, philosophy and egyptology(spelling?).

I can't see any connection to the Sadam-Regime, so why should he 'fake' this report??

BTW, he is still teaching at the University of Leipzig, Germany.(Or is this the reason, why he is pro-sadam ;) )

[Seoulstriker]

As has been mentioned above, the "fact" that it's messed up Iraqi children is highly questionable. Hard facts on the subject seem to be rather lacking as there's been so much deceit and deception on the part of Saddam's regime.

Thats the author of this text:
http://www.sdnl.nl/images/gunther.jpg
Prof Dr. Dr Siegwart Horst Gunther

He's been a member of the resistance-group around Graf Stauffenberg, later he was improsoned in the KZ Buchenwald, later he studied medicine, philosophy and egyptology(spelling?).

I can't see any connection to the Sadam-Regime, so why should he 'fake' this report??

BTW, he is still teaching at the University of Leipzig, Germany.(Or is this the reason, why he is pro-sadam ;) )


could it be that saddam showed him lies and that he is just discussing what he has 'seen'?

[Durandal]

You know, Power Plants (att least the ones that burn coal) generate fly ash and pond ash. It contains 5 trace heavy metals...the three leading ones being Nickel, Cadmium, and Mercury. None of them are good for you. The material is hazardous to breath or injest orally and of you get event he smallest amount in your eyes, you need to go to the doctor because the material acts like blass particulate.

All around the world it is being used as landfill material and in cases of pond ash in some of th elesser developed nations, released into waterways.

The local pplant near our family's farm generates 100s of tons of this material in a year.

You want me to worry about about DU!?

Come on now. A DU round brews up a Soviet built Iraqi tank. There are all SORTS of REALLY bad things that blow up with it. Diesel fuel, rubber, paint, plastics, asbestos, munition components. The list is fairly long and detailed and all of it is not healthy. DU is a fraction of this.

It is not like American tankers are running around launching DU rounds into houses and playgrounds....

They use HEAT for that. :D

[wholagun]

I can't believe you guys are taking this topic so lightly.
I saw a documentary on discovery one time about US and Euro Vets that were in Boznia and Serbia when US bombed the **** out of it for what was it 60 days (im not sure how long) but they showed that radition levels were up and troops that came home complained of pain and the thier kids had defects too (same kinda stuff as those that were in Iraq). The thing is Serbia did not posses any nuclear or bio/chemical weapons, so it makes you wonder.

When espestes (spelling) came it out, everone hailed it as a great engineering product of modern arcitecture. It was years later we learned that it wasn't all that great after all.
I agree in Iraq there were other things which may have caused problems that the vets and ppl in Iraq are facing, there were chemical weapons and what not. But we should still ask questions and do further studies not military DOD studies but independent ones to keep on learning if DU actually has any effects.

[hood]

Well, what DU weapons were used in Serbia? Seeing as it was entirely an air war, what bombs have DU properties to them? The A-10 rounds of course would, but what others?

[wholagun]

The type of weapons, that I can't say. but here is proof they were used.


Depleted uranium in Bosnia and Herzegovina: Post-conflict environmental assessment

Low-level DU contamination found in Bosnia and Herzegovina; UNEP calls for precaution
A new report released by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) here today confirms for the first time that depleted uranium (DU) from weapons used in Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1994 and 1995 has contaminated local supplies of drinking water at one site, and can still be found in dust particles suspended in the air.

Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzogovina/Nairobi, 25 March 2003 - The recorded contamination levels, however, are very low and do not present immediate radioactive or toxic risks for the environment or human health.

"These newest findings from UNEP's ongoing post-conflict assessment work must not be seen as a cause for alarm," said UNEP Executive Director Klaus Toepfer. "Nevertheless, we recommend that precautions be taken and in particular, that ground and drinking water - at and near sites where the presence of DU has been confirmed - be monitored regularly."

The report cites four new and significant findings about how DU behaves in the environment. First, ground contamination occurs at DU penetrator impact points at low levels, and is localized to areas typically limited within 1-2 metres.

Second, DU penetrators buried near the ground surface have corroded, rapidly losing 25% of their mass over seven years. The DU penetrators will corrode completely within 25 - 35 years after impact.

Third, the report records the first instance of DU contamination of groundwater. The previous UNEP assessments of DU in the Balkans were made shortly after the end of conflict, while in Bosnia-Herzegovina the seven years that have passed since the conflict have allowed the corroding DU to penetrate the soil and contaminate the groundwater. When contamination is found, UNEP recommends that alternative water sources be used and that water sampling and measurements continue for several years.

Finally, DU contamination of the air was found at two different sites, including inside two buildings. This is due to the re-suspension of DU particles from penetrators or contamination points due to wind or human actions. Some of these buildings are currently in use, and UNEP recommends a precautionary decontamination of the buildings in order to avoid any unnecessary human exposure.

The UNEP report's recommendations also include collecting the penetrators from the ground, covering contamination points with asphalt or clean soil, handling and disposing of DU material properly, keeping records of DU sites, investigating all health claims and obtaining the missing coordinates of six confirmed attack sites in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

"The findings of this study stress again the importance of appropriate clean-up and civil protection measures in a post-conflict situation," said Pekka Haavisto, Chairman of the UNEP DU projects. "We hope that this work will play a role in protecting human health and the environment in the unfortunate event of future conflicts."

"We now have a scientific method for measuring the impacts of DU and the same methodology can, if needed, be used in other situations," he said.

The findings in Bosnia-Herzegovina are consistent with previous UNEP studies in Kosovo (2001) and in Serbia and Montenegro (2002). This new report is based on data collected by a team of experts that investigated 15 sites that had been targeted with DU weapons during the 1995 conflict. The sites were independently selected by UNEP on the basis of data provided by NATO and local authorities.

The team used highly sensitive instruments to measure surface radioactivity. These measurements revealed the presence of contamination points and pieces of DU weapons at three sites -- the Hadzici tank repair facility, the Hadzici ammunition storage area and the Han Pijesak barracks.

The UNEP team found that mine clearance personnel, as well as the general public, are not sufficiently aware of the risks and issues surrounding DU ammunition. UNEP believes that public awareness on the DU issue should be increased, for example in the form of an easy-to-read flyer that could be widely distributed.

The UNEP team included representatives from the World Health Organization (WHO) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). During the mission, the IAEA experts examined the general storage and handling of radioactive waste. In the health chapter of the report, WHO concludes that, due to the lack of a proper cancer registry and reporting system, claims of an increase in the rates of adverse health effects stemming from DU cannot be substantiated. The existing scientific data on uranium and DU health effects indicate that it is highly unlikely that DU could be associated with any of the reported health problems.

The 17-member UNEP team included experts from UNEP, the Swedish Radiation Protection Authority, Spiez Laboratory (Switzerland), Italy's Environmental Protection Agency and Technical Services (APAT, former ANPA), the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the World Health Organization (WHO), the Greek Atomic Energy Commission, the US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine (USACHPPM), the Nuclear Safety Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and the University of Bristol (UK). Spiez and APAT also analyzed the collected samples of penetrators, water, vegetation and so forth for toxicity and radioactivity. The mission was funded by the Governments of Italy and Switzerland.

Note to journalists: "Depleted Uranium in Bosnia and Herzegovina" is now posted at http://postconflict.unep.ch. For more information please contact Robert Bisset UNEP Spokesperson for Europe on +33-1-44377613, +33-6 2272 5842 (cell), robert.bisset@unep.fr, or Eric Falt, UNEP Spokesman on +254 2 623292, +254 733 682656 (cell), or Nick Nuttall, UNEP Head of Media on +254 2 623084, +254 733 632755 (cell), nick.nuttall@unep.org

Full Report (in pdf* format - 12174.96 KB)




http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/87a144c9e144720685256cf40055aa88?OpenDocument

Another site that has some info is this one but WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTOS http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:FxB_onuX8GUJ:www.the7thfire.com/Politics%2520and%2520History/Depleted-Uranium.htm+Depleted+Uranium+in+Bosnia+US+solders+health&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[Falco]

The A-10 uses DU rounds in it's 30mm gun, some kind of anti armor bombs contain it too and of course the APFSDS rounds.

[Seoulstriker]

they have a photo of a child with hydrocephalus. hydrocephalus is a common birth defect. they are connecting common birth defects with DU. that is a non sequitur.

[Durandal]

I still do not see the proof. The U.N. article discusses several sites, even TWO buildings!

Ok, a little lesson for some people here since after years of experience they do nto seem to get it yet. The internet is not a valid source of information. Yes, it CAN be used for information so long as you check your sources.

So far, all I have seen are fairly anti-American sites that mix limited "data" with rhetoric. Some of the photos are of typical birth defects and can be found on other websites describing such defects. One of the pictures is from Japan. There are quotes that Depleted Uranium is not combustable...which is coompletely false. The mills that crank out these munitions have frequent fires...seriously. The stuff burns extremely hot and the powdered stuff goes up at the drop of the hat (the waste fromthe milling process).

Come on sheeple. Show me a completely UNBIASED source of information...

[Shiruzu]

they have a photo of a child with hydrocephalus. hydrocephalus is a common birth defect. they are connecting common birth defects with DU. that is a non sequitur.

Do you know, what your talking about?
Radiation can modify your genes.

If a woman is pregnant, the baby is very vulnerable to all kinds of stuff - alcohol, tabaco or especially radiation.
So the radiation exposure leads to birth defects and cancer!
Look at the kids of Chernobyl and compare them with the iraqi children: Same birth-defects or kinds of cancer like leukaemia.


Of course not all of the pictures shown in the Video are from iraq, but does this change the fact, that children down there lokk like the ones in the video?

[Shiruzu]

...could it be that saddam showed him lies and that he is just discussing what he has 'seen'?...

Umm..sure.... like every scientist believes in what a dictator tells them! :bash:

It was a scientific research and though it will not just be based on gossip or faked data but also on independent studys!

[Herrmannek]

...could it be that saddam showed him lies and that he is just discussing what he has 'seen'?...

Umm..sure.... like every scientist believes in what a dictator tells them! :bash:

It was a scientific research and though it will not just be based on gossip or faked data but also on independent studys!

Man!!! Scientists will tell you whatever you want, just give them few pages in scintific magazine with big enough impact factor :) .

[Shiruzu]

Yeah Herrmannek....
and this scientist will risk to end his career by publishing bull**** about such an unimportant country like the USA...


I hope your post was meant as a joke... :roll:

[Herrmannek]

Yeah Herrmannek....
and this scientist will risk to end his career by publishing bull**** about such an unimportant country like the USA...


I hope your post was meant as a joke... :roll:
Not really. We are feed by idealistic vision of scientists and scince, but science is more like politics than olympics. Medicine isn't mathematics, proves are ussualy made in statistical manner, so there is back door for dishonest scientists called mrs. Probability, and it is very hard to repeat experiments esspecialy real-life-world data was used. Jugglery with data is what tigers like the best. Take a look at ?enviromentals? many oposite theories, and I've didn't seen heads falling down :)....yet.

[Shiruzu]

Man, this seems to begin like one of the great Nazi-Discussions:

-"Auschwitz & Buchenwald never happened"

-"Sure they did!"

-"No, they didn't! Do you have real proof for it, or is all your knowlage based on what others have told you......"





I hope you get my point ;)

[Herrmannek]

Man, this seems to begin like one of the great Nazi-Discussions:

-"Auschwitz & Buchenwald never happened"

-"Sure they did!"

-"No, they didn't! Do you have real proof for it, or is all your knowlage based on what others have told you......"





I hope you get my point ;)

I've got your point then an now :). I hope you've got my :)

[Seoulstriker]

Of course not all of the pictures shown in the Video are from iraq, but does this change the fact, that children down there lokk like the ones in the video?


hydrocephalus is a common birth defect:


In the United States, a little over 1 in 1000 births are affected by hydrocephalus.
Hydrocephalus is one of the most common "birth defects" and afflicts in excess of 10,000 babies each year.

dude! those children must have been exposed to DU!!! :roll:

i haven't taken a human embryology course in college, but at a medical seminar, i was shocked at what 'normal' birth defects in children look like, and all of those photos from the film and related websites include those 'normal' birth defects that can be expected from perfectly normal mother and father.

[Seoulstriker]

...could it be that saddam showed him lies and that he is just discussing what he has 'seen'?...

Umm..sure.... like every scientist believes in what a dictator tells them! :bash:

It was a scientific research and though it will not just be based on gossip or faked data but also on independent studys!

well, if the dictator controls every single thing you study, how is your 'evidence' true?

[Lcpl Young 0331]

Not sure who put that video together (guessing foreigner by the "Tonnes" measurement)... and I'm not going to bother with reading all of the posts... but that whole video makes the US off to be the reason for all the cancer and deformities. But if I'm not mistaken the whole purpose for the war in Iraq was because of a dictator who was messing with nuclear and chemical/biological weapons... and has NUMEROUS times been taped killing and testing on his own people.

Who's really to blame? I'd like to see some facts on these "nuclear weapons" we're using... because I know for damn sure there's no special handling required for the weapons we use... and there's no contamination risks on our end (being in the military). Free speech is great, but I'm getting tired of being on the receiving end of everyones problems (or being the cause of them).

[Lcpl Young 0331]

Typical anit-war activist propaganda.

Take some genuine concerns, inflate them with bogus numbers, mix it in with some photos and film of unknown origin...bingo....instant propaganda.

Joseph Goebels would be proud.

Agreed... 100%... Goebels or Himmler... one of the two would be proud.

[Shiruzu]

...
dude! those children must have been exposed to DU!!! :roll:

i haven't taken a human embryology course in college, but at a medical seminar, i was shocked at what 'normal' birth defects in children look like, and all of those photos from the film and related websites include those 'normal' birth defects that can be expected from perfectly normal mother and father.

No, dammit!

Of course, there have allways been birth defects and they allways will be.

But, if the birth defects occur much more often in the nuclear radiated areas, than in the USA or Europe( or...) - then something is wrong!

[Shiruzu]

...
Who's really to blame? I'd like to see some facts on these "nuclear weapons" we're using... because I know for damn sure there's no special handling required for the weapons we use... and there's no contamination risks on our end (being in the military).....

Here you are:
http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/env/du/en/


DU is weakly radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be about 60% of that from purified natural uranium with the same mass

Quiet a lot, don't you think?
:bash:

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Good point Shiruzu, although Iraqi's generally arnt the smartest about radiation (i.e. families stealing radiation rods then burying them next to there kitchen). I can see kids playing with reminants of the DU shells.
When the world health organization has articles about it you know it cant be too healthy.....