Special Forces images [Archive]

LongWayToTheTop

12-07-2003, 03:41 AM

1 of the only 3 countries that did something in Iraq no offence to the other countries but i didnt see them do anything in the first 1-3months only Australia,Britian,America did anything then

I don't mean to be a pain in the arse, but Poles sent some special focrces in actual combat. Not much I know, but then again not much is know about thier missions. They didn't send lots of combat troops like you guys did, so I'll shut my yap on that note.

Sweet Pics. I like the forest/green cammo pattern, blends in well in the first pic. You got more pics like that, where Austrialian soldiers are in the forest or in a green area?

Well just recently The ADF is running pretty low on SF SASR, CDO, Combat Divers so their putting pictures and information on the website
www.Defencejobs.gov.au there are other sites if they didnt have pictures on the website i wouldnt post it because id have to ask for permission from the ADF and im pretty sure they'd say no im not gonna go on but yeah we only sent 500-1000 SF to iraq, after about 3 months they pulled out then we just sent infantry and engineers in around 900 i think maybe some drivers too We use some pretty ****ing sweet Gear even tho our Military is so small 50,000 personell i think we have.

Eltaejp

12-07-2003, 07:39 AM

Swedish SF...SSG

http://www.mil.se/images/local/ssg4.jpg http://www.mil.se/images/local/ssg1.jpg http://www.mil.se/images/local/ssg2.jpg

Taken from http://www.mil.se/article.php?id=10142

Fox2

12-07-2003, 12:49 PM

Nice photos of SSG, Eltaejp.

One question, though. Why are their weapons blurred?

http://www.mil.se/images/local/ssg1.jpg

"Oh no, you cannot see our super secret AK5s with laser death ray attachments!"

:D p-)

Hrvoje

12-07-2003, 01:04 PM

Hrvoje, what kind of AK is that one the right Croatian SF operator is holding?

Sorry, dont know. :oops:

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Crotale/ATVP.jpg

Eltaejp

12-07-2003, 01:18 PM

@Fox2

You know SSG....everything is so übersecret :roll:

Lobo

12-07-2003, 01:36 PM

Don't worry. I think it's a short barrel ADM-65. A Hungarian "sui generis" version of the eternal AK.

NcDeuce

12-13-2003, 05:24 PM

http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/dec01/afg1215f.jpg

http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/dec01/afg1215i.jpg

http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/dec01/afg1215d.jpg

http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/dec01/afg1215h.jpg

http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/dec01/afg1215g.jpg

http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/dec01/afg1215b.jpg

http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/dec01/afg1215a.jpg

5th Special Forces Group members honor their fallen comrades at the
U.S. Embassy, Kabul, Afghanistan in December, 2001

uri

12-13-2003, 05:48 PM

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/egoz/egoz-6.jpg
IDF, SF Counter Guerrilla unit - Egoz.

ßå$tÄ®Ð¢HÏ¿ð

12-13-2003, 06:58 PM

In response to an earlier post, the croatian mp5 there is an mp5 10mm version not the 9mm version. That explains the straight mag's.
Nice pics, any more secret squirrels? :P

reverence

12-18-2003, 05:57 PM

Long way to the top-How do you know what other countries did or didn't do during the first three months were you there. You think there were 500-1000 SF deployed from Oz-It was an SASR Squadron plus support(Sigs etc) A Strike Company minus from 4CDO. A Clearance Diver Team(whether they're SF is another story) You think there are 50 000 soldiers in the Army-Wrong. I like the way you say "We" when talking about gear are you in SASR/4RAR? The only infantry presence is a single platoon from the RAR as the SecDet. I'm not being mean just saying that if all you are going to do is guess figures then its only misinforming people who are looking for the facts.

[AFSOC]

12-18-2003, 06:11 PM

Here's sum of the JTF2 pics

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dcds/units/jtf2/images/JTF_03.jpg

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dcds/units/jtf2/images/JTF_11.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/allied_canada/b_jtf01.jpg

Marxist203

12-18-2003, 06:38 PM

Man...The Israeli special forces guy looks like a retard. Im not making fun of his abilities. The picture just makes him look like he belongs in a special school.

TriggerPuller

12-18-2003, 11:52 PM

Man...The Israeli special forces guy looks like a retard. Im not making fun of his abilities. The picture just makes him look like he belongs in a special school.Thats what I was thinking,looks like Invaders from Mars!

TP

TheBenz

12-19-2003, 12:13 AM

he's stoned out of his mind! LOL

BT_Recon

12-19-2003, 12:45 AM

the helmet cover is cooking his brains p-) YARR!

Seoulstriker

12-19-2003, 01:18 AM

i really want to rip open my collection of SF photos. errrrrrr.... some other time. i'll dedicate a new thread to it. :)

fantassin

12-19-2003, 01:31 AM

The Swedish SSG's weapons are blurred because they use different weapons than the rest of the swedish army, eg HK G36 for example.

The SSG is currently putting together what they call an "international platoon" especially tasked with foreign operations after their participation to operation Artemis in Congo with the French SF.

Upfrontreporting

12-19-2003, 02:43 AM

Quote:
Hrvoje, what kind of AK is that one the right Croatian SF operator is holding?

Sorry, dont know.

I think it is the Hungarian version, although I can't remember its' name.

The Croats "recieved" a lot of Hungarian weapons before the war broke out in '91 ..ahemmm ;)

lekomin

12-19-2003, 04:09 AM

Army SF (Special Air Service) & 4 Royal Australian Regiment(Commandos) 1 of the only 3 countries that did something in Iraq no offence to the other countries but i didnt see them do anything in the first 1-3months only Australia,Britian,America did anything then

I beg to differ. Have you heard of Polish Grom at the oil terminals and in Umm Qasr on the first night of fighting?

-Max2-

12-19-2003, 04:19 AM

Hrvoje, what kind of AK is that one the right Croatian SF operator is holding?

I think it is the Hungarian version, although I can't remember its' name.

Correct. It's a Hungarian AMD-65. ;)

navylt

12-19-2003, 11:05 AM

Did someone say Swedish SF? That's a funny one. I almost pissed myself!

NcDeuce

12-19-2003, 11:09 AM

Marines...SOF...SF

Whahahahaha rofl

Argyll

12-19-2003, 11:13 AM

Care to share the joke TF?

NcDeuce

12-19-2003, 11:15 AM

It's too funny...too cruel.

Argyll

12-19-2003, 11:18 AM

I love cruelty!!

TriggerPuller

12-19-2003, 11:18 AM

Marines...SOF...SF

Whahahahaha rofl I dont get it please enlighten me/us! Thanks

TP

Roger Rabbit

12-19-2003, 12:36 PM

Is this the part where TF begins to wonder if the joke was all that funny afterall?

Anyway i have a joke for y'all.

M-uscles
A-re
R-equired
I-ntellitgence
N-ot
E-ssential

Remember its just a joke people. Although feel free to :bash: if you would like to :lol:

ChuckThunder

12-19-2003, 01:25 PM

Marines...SOF...SF

Whahahahaha rofl

Know whats really funny, you'll be neither of the three. :D

Roger Rabbit

12-19-2003, 01:26 PM

Now now lets not start trading insults.

NcDeuce

12-19-2003, 02:00 PM

Marines...SOF...SF

Whahahahaha rofl

Know whats really funny, you'll be neither of the three. :D

I think I hurt a Jarhead's feelings...

M-y
A-ss
R-ides
I-n
N-avy
E-quipment

Know what's funny? You're a dumbass. Go back to rowing your little boat and reading Navy advertisements.

Ratamacue

12-19-2003, 02:17 PM

Just remember TF, you're going to have to deal with plenty of Marines in your military career. Why don't you take after Tane Angle and get to like 'em?

NcDeuce

12-19-2003, 02:21 PM

I don't have anything against most Marines...just the ones that think they are God's gift to the Armed Forces. That goes for Combat Support and Combat Service Support branches in the Army too...

Kenshin

12-19-2003, 03:10 PM

SPETSNAZ: Russian Special Forces

They are bit small.. Anyone like to add more in a larger size?

http://www.spetsnaz.com.br/imagens/omon_2.jpg
http://www.spetsnaz.com.br/imagens/omon_3.jpg
http://www.spetsnaz.com.br/imagens/omon_14.jpg
http://www.spetsnaz.com.br/imagens/omon_19.jpg
http://www.spetsnaz.com.br/imagens/omon_39.jpg
http://www.spetsnaz.com.br/imagens/omon_29.jpg
http://www.spetsnaz.com.br/imagens/omon_42.jpg

AirZone

12-20-2003, 07:20 AM

Man...The Israeli special forces guy looks like a retard. Im not making fun of his abilities. The picture just makes him look like he belongs in a special school.

ok.. heres a better version of the "Egoz" IDF SF Counter Guerrilla unit

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/egoz/egoz-11.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/egoz/egoz-1.jpg

note: Egoz operator with RPD LMG

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/egoz/egoz-3.jpg

clown hats 0wnz j00 !!! :D

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/egoz/egoz-51.jpg

While it was originally formed for Counter Guerilla Warfare in South Lebanon, after the IDF withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000 the unit had undergone few organizational changes. The major one, deriving from the recent Israeli-Palestinian clashes, is a new specialty - Counter Terror Warfare in the Territories. However, the unit still trains on Counter Guerilla tactics

www.isayeret.com

Argyll

12-20-2003, 07:35 AM

I'd love to see you tell that to TP and Mooch TF,you're a cocky and arrogant type,methinks you'll get bitch slapped quite a lot in your career,as short as it will be!

Javehn

12-20-2003, 08:25 AM

How about that ?

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/ak/ak-1.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/camo/Laser-1.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/217/217-big.jpg

The second guy from the right : "Wass up daug ?? Wanna take it outside, yo ?? "
Most left guy is ... Well , you figure it out . ;)

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/m4/m4-2.jpg

Marmot1

12-20-2003, 09:15 AM

Polish SF

http://acn.waw.pl/grom1/english.htm

http://www.specforces.cz/img/grom/grom-nasivka.gif
GROM armpatch
http://www.specforces.cz/img/grom/1.jpg
http://www.specforces.cz/img/grom/3.jpg
http://www.specforces.cz/img/grom/2.jpg
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Poland/grom-skok.jpg
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Poland/grom10.jpg
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Poland/grom21.jpg
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Poland/grom-pz1.jpg
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Poland/grom18.jpg

And We dont have Weapons of Mass Destruction!!!! rofl rofl rofl

http://www.grom.de/service/prep-anl.jpg
that is not a bio-lab :-)

Bulkowski

12-20-2003, 10:50 AM

that is not a bio-lab :-)
Naaaa, It's for making cookies

AirZone

12-20-2003, 10:59 AM

I think no one montion Israel Unique SF:

Israeli Undercover Units (aka "Mistaravim")

those guys are truly SF (they are doing some of the most intense operations in the israeli-palastine conflict)

my sister (she serves in havron) told me once about an operation when YAMAS guys (3 of them) entered to a house of a known terrorist and pulled him out before anyone noticed...fearless woot

dont mess with those guys ;)

http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/33/gideonim.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/33/gideonim-2.jpg
Unit Gideonim

Israeli Police Undercover unit.. now its mostly an anti-crime unit

and thier "sister unit" Israeli Border Guard (MAGAV) unit - YAMAS

http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/yamas/yamas-25.jpg
during training
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/yamas/civi-mis-80.jpg
"yo nigga do you want some?!" :lol:
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/yamas/mis-21.jpg
2 operators in action - notice the palastines are afraid to help the poor basterd
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/yamas/mis-20.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/yamas/mis-22.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/yamas/mis-23.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/yamas/mis-1-10.jpg
run forest run

and a nice video
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/yamas/yamas-vid-1.mpeg

translation:
the yamas oprator says: take the camera man, take the camera man !
the solider says: go away from here
the officer says: stop filming and go away from her (in hebrew it sounds better)

or its more like GET THE **** OUTTA HER rofl

i was wondering.. does usa use any undercover units in IRAQ ?

S'13

12-20-2003, 12:06 PM

Sayeret Duvdevan

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/217/879.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/217/217-4.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/217/217-21.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/217/Pic-4.jpg

www.isayeret.com

NcDeuce

12-20-2003, 01:08 PM

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/special/217/217-big.jpg

Eh, wannabes!

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/special_forces-afghanistan/246j2464qj.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/special_forces-afghanistan/q35yq35yq.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/special_forces-afghanistan/q4jq4j4jq.jpg

M203

12-20-2003, 01:49 PM

Did someone say Swedish SF? That's a funny one. I almost pissed myself!

Well if your ignorant and dont know that much maybe you' ll laugh, but if youve met them or knew anything about international SF you wouldnt laugh at all. They do know their stuff.

have a good one

AirZone

12-20-2003, 02:15 PM

Javehn

12-20-2003, 03:07 PM

If we allready on the subject , have you seen that bastard , ha ?? Have you ? Cose i haven't ...

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/car15/sar+m203-2.gif

What the f_ck is going on here ???

And check this "Negev" out :

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/negevbig.jpg

Tasty...

IDFM203

12-20-2003, 03:34 PM

If we allready on the subject , have you seen that bastard , ha ?? Have you ? Cose i haven't ...

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/car15/sar+m203-2.gif

.

So is that going to replace the ak47 that shayetet13 uses??

I mean other then shayetet13 who in the IDF will use this weapon??

No one in the infantry uses galil’s anymore (since the early 90’s) and the armoured corp. and the artillery uses them but not with the M203 attachment… is it just for the outside market??

Oh and since this thread is special forces images….here is a pic of a shayetet13 operator (in the 80's?)with a ak47 with a m203 attachment.

http://www.isayeret.com/units/sea/shayetet/s13-22.jpg

In this rare photo, an operator from Shayetet 13 is seen during training armed with an AK47 fitted with a dual magazine clamp, a day optic and a M203. As S'13 is the only unit in the IDF which makes massive usage of the AK47, the unit is the primary end user of the AK47/M203 combo. Note that the AK47 is secured to the operator vest with a cord, in order to prevent loosing the weapon during maritime incursions.

Shalom :D

IDFM203

12-20-2003, 03:45 PM

Since we are now a bit on the topic of galil or ak47 with m203 attachments….I just noticed another interesting pic from that website..

It was taken in the 80's (before all infantry units switched over totally to m16's and its various combinations……though there were some car15/m203 already being used in those days)

Like the quote underneath the pic says, notice the mag that the galil has.

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/car15/sar+m203-1.jpg

Sayeret Golany operators during Close Quarters Battle (CQB) training in the late 1980's. Left operator armed with a CAR15/M203 combo. Middle operator armed with a Galil SAR/M203 combo. Note that the SAR/M203 combo is using a M16 magazine via a Galil magazine adapter

shalom :D

Roger Rabbit

12-20-2003, 03:47 PM

Why are they using AK47s? Personnel preference? Or is it because of the sound? Not sure how to phrase that last question, but the sound if i have been told rightly, is very distinctive, so it may confuse the enemy, am i right or completely stark raving bonkers?

ChuckThunder

12-20-2003, 03:52 PM

IDFM203

12-20-2003, 03:55 PM

Why are they using AK47s? Personnel preference?

Actually shayetet13 (Israel’s navy seals) is the only unit in the IDF that uses ak's 47's and its for a few unique reasons that pertains to this unit and what they do.

This is from isayeret.com

”There are several reasons why S'13 chose the AK47 as its main personnel issue weapon. During the 70's the IDF SF units used a variety of assault rifles of different calibers: AK47 7.62 mm, Israeli Military Industries (IMI) Galil AR (Assault Rifle) 5.56 mm, FN FAL 7.62 mm and the American rifles M16 5.56 mm and M14 7.62 mm (the American rifles arrived during the American airborne aid to Israel in the Yom Kippur war). In a series of tests conducted by S'13, it found out that the best weapons for maritime missions were the IMI Galil AR and the AK47, at least when it came down to water and sand resistance.

But the AK47 had one major advantage over the Galil - it was the 'number one' weapon among terrorists and carrying it gave S'13 operators a few seconds before the terrorists could be sure if the person in front of them was enemy or friend (the same line of thought that guided the US MACV-SOG unit during the Vietnam war, often performing missions in typical north-Vietnamese clothing and carry AK47). This was especially correct since in the 80's, when S'13 performed many missions for the SHABACH, both in Lebanon and in the Territories often dressed in typical Arab clothing (Mistaravim type missions). Since unlike most operations conduct by other SF units, S'13 operations in Lebanon are deep into Syrian-Lebanese held territory, S'13 found it convenient to use AK47 which are deniable weapons.

For the same reason, S'13 rarely gets credit for its operations in the media. most of this operations are never revealed to the media and to the public and are often describe as "terrorist clashes" in south Lebanon. since the Arabs terrorists in Lebanon are not exactly eager to admit they lose some of their comrades without a single enemy lost, they often keep the Israeli raids to themselves. in many cases the terrorists actually think that the raid was conducted by a rival terrorists fraction. using the standard terrorist issue AK47 help to support this thought. In the early 1990's with the CAR15 becoming the standard personnel issue weapons in the IDF SF community, S'13 increased the use in the CAR15 especially when it wanted to carry grenade launchers for increased fire power (the AK47 can also be fitted with 40 mm grenade launcher but it's much less accurate then the M203 mounted on M16).

Over the years the AK47 become almost a myth in S'13 and their main recognition feature. Today the AK47 is being carried by the young soldiers throughout their training period in the Atlit Naval Base (after finishing training the solders receive 9mm handguns, usually SIG Sauer P226). The AK47 are only carried today in missions that involve diving. In other missions such as raids, which are the majority of operations performed by S'13 in peacetime, the warriors carry M16 CAR15 which is much lighter, more versatile and more accurate weapon then the AK47. Also, the M16 CAR15 carry the same type of ammunition (5.56 mm SS109/M855) as fired by the IMI Negev light Machine Gun (LMG) which is today the standard LMG in the IDF (the Negev replaced the old FN MAG 7.62 mm LMG that were ere in service in the IDF). SF units like S'13 have a special short barrel version of the Negev with only 330 mm barrel (the regular version has 460 mm barrel). Another reason for S'13 to minimize the usage in the AK47 is that there is simply no need any more to use it.”

I hope this answeres it well :D

shalom :D

ChuckThunder

12-20-2003, 03:55 PM

Oh and since this thread is special forces images….here is a pic of a shayetet13 operator (in the 80's?)with a ak47 with a m203 attachment.

http://www.isayeret.com/units/sea/shayetet/s13-22.jpg

In this rare photo, an operator from Shayetet 13 is seen during training armed with an AK47 fitted with a dual magazine clamp, a day optic and a M203. As S'13 is the only unit in the IDF which makes massive usage of the AK47, the unit is the primary end user of the AK47/M203 combo. Note that the AK47 is secured to the operator vest with a cord, in order to prevent loosing the weapon during maritime incursions.

Shalom :D

Since it is training he may be an OpFor and why he has an AK.

Javehn

12-20-2003, 03:55 PM

It's not an AK , budy . It's Israeli ripof from Kalachnikov , called Galil (even the guy who build it was named Balashnikov :lol: , later changed his name to Galil ). This version is Mini Galil with M203 , which is used only by Israeli SF . Some special forces in Israel prefer do have Kalachnikovs , and they prefer to use AK in some missions then other weapons ( I know i would prefer Ak over M16 ) . The picture that i gave have M203 over Mini Galil , and Trijicon Dot , i bellieve (correct me about the last one , please ).Kalachnikov acctually has it's own 40mm launcher , and it's pretty good - My Russian colleagues should give more info about this ...

Ratamacue

12-20-2003, 03:57 PM

That's definitely not a Galil, buddy.

ChuckThunder

12-20-2003, 03:58 PM

http://www.isayeret.com/units/sea/shayetet/s13-22.jpg

AK

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/car15/sar+m203-1.jpg

Galil in center.

Javehn

12-20-2003, 04:00 PM

I was reffering to that picture. Acctually very rare one , used only to export , and by SF units(not only Israelies ) .

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/car15/sar+m203-2.gif

Get correction about trijicon reflex, this one is Israeli made reflex sight Meprolight Mepor 21...

IDFM203

12-20-2003, 04:11 PM

Sorry buddy but I think I have a few corrections (hey we try but we cant agree on everything ;) :D )

It's not an AK , budy . It's Israeli ripof from Kalachnikov , called Galil (even the guy who build it was named Balashnikov :lol: , later changed his name to Galil ). ... first of all, the pic I showed with Shayetet13 is not a rip off but it is a genuine ak47!!

Secondly, the galil isn’t exactly a rip off directly from kalchnikov, but rather it is based on the Finnish Valmet Rk.62 assault rifle which is a license-built AK-47 clone.

And the Galil has its own Israeli modifications to it.

This version is Mini Galil with M203 , which is used only by Israeli SF . I know what that is…………….oh and besides perhaps shayetet13, what other SF unit uses it??

Some special forces in Israel prefer do have Kalachnikovs , ... only one unit prefers it and that’s shayetet13 as I explained above.

( I know i would prefer Ak over M16 ) . ... haha ;) yeah that’s because you were a tanker in the tank corp.…………no one in Israeli infantry units and SF would prefer a Galil or a AK over a M4 or M16 and their various combinations.

Kalachnikov acctually has it's own 40mm launcher , and it's pretty good - My Russian colleagues should give more info about this ... yeah I would like to see that as well for the pic I gave I believe has the American m203 attached to it

shalom
:D

Javehn

12-20-2003, 04:31 PM

Ok , i have managed to find some info over the net about the russian Grenade Launcher . First , they have 30mm grenades , not 40mm.Well , check this out -
http://www.arms.ru/Guns/grenade/2972101b.jpg

Launcher called GP-25

Here it is on Kalach -

http://www.arms.ru/Guns/grenade/2972203.jpg

It's seams so short , that i think one grenade sits just on the boundaries of it . I am not seing the sight of Launcher , maybe someone would enlighten us . As i understand , they have kinda strange method to zero it on distances .

Here , like i wrote , the grenade itself is the same size as the tube ...

http://www.arms.ru/Guns/grenade/2972201.jpg

Interesting method to fire it . And those are the grenades for it .

http://www.arms.ru/Guns/grenade/vog25.jpg

Ratamacue

12-20-2003, 04:43 PM

I heard that the GP-25 fires RPG-like rounds. Is this true or are they more like the 40mm rounds from the M203?

Marmot1

12-20-2003, 04:48 PM

Compare it like thisone :-)
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev5_1024.jpg

the grenade launcher is...BS-1
The BS-1 30 mm silenced grenade launcher has appeared under the designation RGA-86 in Russian literature, but it appears that BS-1 is more widely accepted in Russia. Regardless of designation, the Russians have developed an innovative silenced grenade launcher for use by special operations forces.
The BS-1 is always seen mounted on a suppressed version of the 5.45 mm AKS-74U short assault rifle differentiated from the standard AKS-74U by a leather flap that fits on the forestock of the weapon and covers the BS-1 mount when the launcher is not installed; the designation AKS-74UB has been used for this rifle. A silenced grenade launcher is of great utility in a close combat situation as it not only reduces sound, but also reduces flash and smoke.
BS-1 launch cartridges are magazine fed using a bolt action and utilise a special star crimped cartridge. The grenade is muzzle loaded, as with other RFAS underbarrel grenade launchers, but there the similarity ends. Although there has been no explanatory literature as to the functioning of the BS-1, certain aspects of its operation can be deduced. The BS-1 launcher has a large containment chamber behind the barrel with a piston that launches the VOG-T HEAT grenade. The expanding gases of the launch cartridge propel the piston rapidly forward, pushing the grenade from the launcher muzzle. The piston obturates against a shoulder inside the containment chamber and, after the grenade is launched, the gases bleed off quickly enough to allow for a relatively rapid follow-up shot.

Specifications

Calibre: 30 mm
Operation: manual, muzzle loaded; launch cartridges fed from detachable box magazine
Weight: ca 1.5 kg
Length: ca 320 m
Effective range: ca 100 m
Armour penetration: ca 125 mm RHA
Manufacturer: Russian state factories.
Status: In production.

Text Information from Janes Infantry Weapons

But this one is nice too :-)
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev7_1024.jpg

:-) VSS Vintorez
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev1_1024.jpg
SPR :-)
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev2_1024.jpg

and some armour for Oparation Ivy
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev3_1024.jpg

Marmot1

12-20-2003, 04:54 PM

I heard that the GP-25 fires RPG-like rounds. Is this true or are they more like the 40mm rounds from the M203?

GP-30
Caliber: 40 mm
Lenght: 27,6 cm
Weight w/o grenade: 1,3 kg
Velocity: 78 m/s
Rate of fire: 4-5 rounds/minute
Range: 400 metrów

http://www.americasarmy.pl/zdjecia/1045492743Gp30s.jpg

Marmot1

12-20-2003, 04:56 PM

M4 SOPMOD
http://www.americasarmy.pl/screeny/m4weaponmods02.jpg

Javehn

12-20-2003, 05:02 PM

To IDFM203 , Indian special forces use this type of Galil . They also gonna bye some Tavor for they Regular units . Next question - S'13 is not the only SF with Kalach in it's Armory (Bitahon Sade ) ...
I had actually the chance to hold Kalachnikov ( he was old , in chinese modification , and after some considirable dammage... ) , and it's weight is much lesser then Galils . It is also very reliable , considaring what that weapon went thrue , i still could insert a bullet inside a chamber on it . The only ****y thing that i so on it , was the strange location of rear sight , and very brakeablle stock . It was in very ****y condition because the arab guy didn't oil it and it was safed under ground , but still would able to shoot with it . So , i think that Ak is preferrable and relliable . M16 brakes down with every little fall ....Maybe it is good for infantry , cose they are not so strong like the tankers , and nead some light weapon to carry ;) . Also south Afrikan commando units got the Galil , Latin America got the long version of it . Info from "waronline"

IDFM203

12-20-2003, 05:32 PM

To IDFM203 , Indian special forces use this type of Galil . They also gonna bye some Tavor for they Regular units . "yes I know this………I said before that its for the outside market and that means India and other’s will be buying it…………but in the IDF it is not used at all. (again except for perhaps shaytetet13 and they use it for the reasons that I described before)

Next question - S'13 is not the only SF with Kalach in it's Armory (Bitahon Sade ) ... yeah I understand “bitachon Sade" (OPSEC for you non Hebrew speakers out there ;) )

However, again the kalach is not used in infantry units or in SF units……..now it might be in some armaries of some units and it might be used a few times (for various reasons that are indeed OPSEC) but in general most don’t use it.

Also I just want to make something clear. While the standard kalach and galil are not used in the IDF infentry or its SF units, there is some SF units that use the sniper versions of the Galil….so in that one respect (the sniper versions) the galil is in fact used.

I had actually the chance to hold Kalachnikov ( he was old , in chinese modification , and after some considirable dammage... ) , and it's weight is much lesser then Galils . It is also very reliable , considaring what that weapon went thrue , i still could insert a bullet inside a chamber on it . The only ****y thing that i so on it , was the strange location of rear sight , and very brakeablle stock " the galil Vs the AK argument is something that I don’t really care about nor do I really give a **** as to which is better, for none of those to me are preferred over a M4 or even the new tavor.

So , i think that Ak is preferrable and relliable . M16 brakes down with every little fall " listen I was already involved in a few ak47/galil and m16/m4 debates so I don’t want to go over it again

In the IDF, the infantry and SF units prefers the M16 or the M4 over the ak47 or the galil…period!! (and its not because of monetary reasons).

Ill just say that in infantry, the Weight and accuracy are indeed important…and yes the m16 breaks down more then the ak but with proper cleaning it can be dwelt with……..

Oh and now we aren’t even talking about the m16 but rather the m4 or the new tavor.

....Maybe it is good for infantry , cose they are not so strong like the tankers , and nead some light weapon to carry ;) . "hahah rofl ;) hey you or all the Israelis know how funny that statement is :D …….Like I told you before, I don’t want to get into a public debate about who is better in the IDF, Ill just say that in general the higher profile soldiers go to infantry.

Secondly you know as well as I do how the IDF works and who gets the m4 and who gets the galil’s and why they get it and it has absolutely nothing to do with what you just said.

The tankers and artillery and non combat units get the galil because the IDF has ****loads of them and since you don’t really need or rely on a personal weapon like a infantry person needs it ,so there is no point in the IDF giving them the more accurate and lighter m16, m4 or the tavor………..so instead of throwing out the galil’s or selling all of them, the IDF is smart and gives it to you guys so as not to completely waste it.

(I mean it does need to use it anywhere in the IDF so as to have that label that it is used by the IDF in order to better sell them to outside markets ;) :D )

Also south Afrikan commando units got the Galil , Latin America got the long version of it . Info from "waronline" yes other units in the world use it and your point is what?

I mean to make it more clear.......the indian SF and the south african units use it and that proves what?? ;)

shalom :D

Javehn

12-20-2003, 05:49 PM

....Maybe it is good for infantry , cose they are not so strong like the tankers , and nead some light weapon to carry . "

Well , ok , maybe it is a bit redicolous .. I can't go against the facts .

yes other units in the world use it and your point is what?

I mean to make it more clear.......the indian SF and the south african units use it and that proves what??

Sorry , i thought you are asking me , what other SF units in the world besides our using it . Didn't tryed to proove nothing . About the Kalach over m4/M16 is just my personal opinion .

About the usage of that Galil modification , i think you right . No one besides S'13 uses it .

IDFM203

12-20-2003, 06:07 PM

"....Maybe it is good for infantry , cose they are not so strong like the tankers , and nead some light weapon to carry."

Well , ok , maybe it is a bit redicolous .. . its ridicules (and actually funny as hell :D , sorry but it is ;) ) because those (your above statement) are not the facts!!

Can't go against the facts . :( .yes you cant go against facts and how the IDF operates…..again in the IDF the higher profile in general goes to the infantry :D , that’s a fact!!

Again lets not get into this in public……….

Sorry , i thought you are asking me , what other SF units in the world besides our using it . . well buddy that was your mistake for I was asking what other infantry or SF units in the IDF use the galil or the Ak as their standard personal weapons and I think the answer is none (again except for shayetet13 with their ak’s that they use at times)

Didn't tryed to proove nothing . About the Kalach over m4/M16 is just my personal opinion . .

Believe me, I understand your personal opinion and preference and why you have it as such ;) :D

About the usage of that Galil modification , i think you right . No one besides S'13 uses it . btw, I am actually not even sure if even they use it……….I always said perhaps they would use it though I actually doubt it……..to me I believe the galil with the m203 modification or other newer modifications is only for outside markets.(or perhaps some Israeli civilian police forces)

Shalom :D

NcDeuce

12-21-2003, 01:22 AM

M4 SOPMOD
http://www.americasarmy.pl/screeny/m4weaponmods02.jpg

What the fook is this shi*?! Here's the real shi*!

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/apsu_army_rotc/aau.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/apsu_army_rotc/aam.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/apsu_army_rotc/aar.jpg

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/apsu_army_rotc/aao.jpg

16 OBr SpN

12-21-2003, 07:53 AM

There is a pic, that I want to share, but it's on my computer. How can I do it?

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

tony6

12-21-2003, 08:14 AM

Polish SPAT (SWAT) officer
http://www.31blot.com/stuff/terror/terror30.jpg
http://www.31blot.com/stuff/terror/terror31.jpg

oldsoak

12-21-2003, 09:05 AM

A few quick questions for the Israeli chaps about the Negev

1 How does it compare with the Belgian minimi
2 Can you change the barrels ( I presume you must be able to )
3 hows is it issued ? ie one or two per section

sorry if its off topic

rgds and thanks in advance

Javehn

12-21-2003, 11:20 AM

Please , here you go... Introducing the "NEGEV"

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/negev-ops.jpg

The drum attached to Negev called "Assault drum" , and have belt of 150 rounds (ss109 5.56mm belt , "regular" Nato rounds).

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/negev.gif

About the first question : Here is Minimi
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/minimi/minimi.gif

From "Isayeret" : On the surface the Negev LMG looks suspiciously like a Minimi LMG clone. Inside, the two firearms vary in several technical aspects. All in all, both items are very much alike, both very accurate, reliable and light weighted. Based on the IDF operational experience with both weapons over the years in adverse field conditions, the Negev LMG proved itself to be more reliable in harsh desert conditions then the Minimi LMG. The Negev LMG folding stock is also a big advantage over the Minimi LMG.

As for my knowladges , Negev is mixup of M16 , Galil , anf FN MAG alltogether plus some new features . You can also use standart M16 magazine on it , not just the belt . It is in use on all infantry IDF units , moving the heavy 7.62 FN MAG from ground use (the last is still on use mounted ).

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/negevmag.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/Negev_12.jpg
Negev "Commando"

About the barrel , ofcorse it has a replacement barrel , to avoid "Barrel jerking ??" (sorry , direct hebrew translation :) ) . It is supposed to be replaced after something like 500 shots without a brake .

Minimi was acctually in use in Israeli SF units , but they didn't like it , and prefered Negev over it .
Para Minimi
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/minimi/Para_Minimi.jpg

oldsoak

12-21-2003, 12:14 PM

Javehn - many thanks for this info. It certainly looks impressive, as does a lot of Israeli kit !
rgds

hihihi_ch

12-21-2003, 01:25 PM

Switzerland pictures now :

Swiss Grenadier :

http://mypage.bluewin.ch/dbernasconi/isone_fotos_te1.jpg

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/770.jpg

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/1547.jpg

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/3577.jpg

and Swiss explo :

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/4969.jpg

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/4958.jpg

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/4966.jpg

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/4953.jpg

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/3958.jpg

http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/3960.jpg

It's all...

IDFM203

12-21-2003, 01:26 PM

As for my knowladges , Negev is mixup of M16 , Galil , anf FN MAG alltogether plus some new features . You can also use standart M16 magazine on it , not just the belt . It is in use on all infantry IDF units , moving the heavy 7.62 FN MAG from ground use (the last is still on use mounted ).
I just want to make one correction……while the Negev was supposed to replace the MAG 58 LMG (the minimi’s “older and heavier brother”) for ground use, as far as I know in most infantry units it has not and instead they use both were in each plugah (company) besides the soldiers that carry the Negev, there is at least one or two soldiers that carry the MAG58.

Though not my primary weapon while I served, nonetheless I do have personal experience with the negev and the mag and both are truly awesome weapons and both have its pros and cons as compared to each other and the IDF is smart to deploy and use both together.

Anyways, Here is a few more pics of the Negev.

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/negev-2.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/negev-1.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/golany2.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/lmg/negev/negev.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Raids/Tulkarm060302/24.jpg

Shalom :D

Javehn

12-21-2003, 03:45 PM

Swiss have a Special forces ? What they do , they guard national reserves of chocolate and clocks ?? rofl
Just joking, they look .. ok . Wonder if they operate ok , sence they hade so many chances to proove themselfes rofl . I acctually read that south African have very good SF units , i will try to find some info about it and post it over ...

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/ak/ak-1.jpg

To IDFM203 , this guy doesn't look from S'13 . Wonder which unit is he ...

UoUo

12-21-2003, 03:58 PM

Look like a hizballah member.

IDFM203

12-21-2003, 04:08 PM

To javehn

I actually think that in general “hihihi_ch” showed some decent pictures though this one here does need a bit of explaining……… ;) :D
http://afd.dev.imagefinder.ch/Lists/400/770.jpg

As for the Idf pic well the caption underneath that says……
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/ak/ak-1.jpg

SF operator armed with AK47 during terrorist simulation in the IDF Counter Guerrilla School.
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/ak/ak-2.jpg

Same caption as above. The operator plays dead.

So again besides shaytet13 no one in the IDF uses ak’s as a personal weapon except for some simulation or a few other reasons (as I outlined in my post as to why shyaetet13 uses them and perhaps some other units might as also use it on some occasions for that same exact reason)

As for which unit, well it can be a few and its a OPSEC violation for me to say (believe me isayeret has violated OPSEC rules and anything to add to that is even a worse violation so I will leave it at that)

Shalom :D

Herrmannek

12-21-2003, 04:10 PM

How admiting using AK's can damage OPSEC rules :) ?

IDFM203

12-21-2003, 04:16 PM

How admiting using AK's can damage OPSEC rules :) ?no admitting as to which unit use it might be (though I could be wrong), now even though a lot is public information (like whats on isayeret.com or other Israeli sites) what’s not public, I try not to say too much for I respect our OPSEC rules and I try not to violate it..............listen Israel’s OPSEC rules are very strict and they are stricter that a lot of other nations as to what can or cant be said.

BTW I already openly admitted that there is usage of the ak47 in the IDF (well basically only one unit uses it regularly)

Shalom :D

Herrmannek

12-21-2003, 04:17 PM

If telling me your OPSEC rules is also violating OPSEC rules?

hihihi_ch

12-21-2003, 04:26 PM

Yes they guard our precious chocolate and our banks account... but shut up, it's a secret!!! :lol:

In fact they are not professional units, but they are well train, i think we will began to form professional special forces in 2004.

A other swiss "special" forces :
the recon/para unit

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/10.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/15.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/22.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/18.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/26.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/28.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/30.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/34.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/35.jpg

http://www.17er.ch/_img/img_gal/380/38.jpg

http://mitglied.lycos.de/swissspecialforces/fschaufkl_kontakt.jpg

others Grenadier :

http://gren.port5.com/te.jpg

http://mitglied.lycos.de/swissspecialforces/korporal.jpg

http://mitglied.lycos.de/swissspecialforces/no_chance.jpg

http://mitglied.lycos.de/swissspecialforces/images/59_JPG.jpg

http://mitglied.lycos.de/swissspecialforces/nahkampf_2.jpg

ok, it's enough

IDFM203

12-21-2003, 04:26 PM

If telling me your OPSEC rules is also violating OPSEC rules? I cant tell if that’s a serious question or not………….. ;)

but yeah I can say a lot of what our OPSEC rules are and its not a OPSEC violation to say what we cant or can say like for example its ok for me to tell you that we aren’t supposed to say any numbers (like how many people or how many tanks or how many etc etc…)

Or for me to tell you that a lot of missions that are classified need to remain classified and not to go into details

Or for me to say that we really aren’t allowed to discuss our training and give details about it and our tactics. (Yes I can discuss aspects of it in a general way but not details that can potentially give our enemies a knowledge on how we operate so that he might know what we do and he will know how to act against us)

or etc…(you get my point)

Shalom :D

Herrmannek

12-21-2003, 04:42 PM

Thanks IDFM203

IDFM203

12-21-2003, 04:44 PM

Thanks IDFM203 your welcome :D

Shalom :D

16 OBr SpN

12-23-2003, 08:38 AM

I just got this link from my "colleague".
I'm very surprised to say the least! :cantbeli:

This is guys from spetsnaz GRU. How the hell did they let that guy take their pictures?? :cantbeli:

http://www.rusmysl.ru/2000IV/4338/433819ccn3.jpg

AirZone

12-23-2003, 09:21 AM

dont let the theard to die.. its a good theard... :hug:

heres some more photos of the PALSAR...Reconnaissance Company ("Plugat Siur - PALSAR", in Hebrew) Units in every brigade (Golani, Givati Nahal and Paratroopers brigade)
sayeret is a hard core LRRP unit with advanced CT and hostage rescue capabilities.

Sayeret Golani
http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/golany/golany-5.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/golany/273.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/golany/cover.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/golany/street.jpg
looks heavy :D

Sayeret Givati
http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/givaty/givaty-6.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/givaty/givaty-11.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/givaty/5.jpg

Sayeret Nahal ("noar haluzi lohem" or fighting pioneer youth..sounds better in hebrew hehehe)
http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/nahal/nahal-3.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/nahal/nahal-6.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/nahal/zni19.jpg

Sayeret T'zanhanim (paratroopers)

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/para/para-6.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/para/para-11.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/para/para-12.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/land/infantry/para/para-1.jpg

credit to www.isayeret.com

Javehn

12-23-2003, 10:09 AM

http://www.rusmysl.ru/2000IV/4338/433819ccn3.jpg

You know , this picture has a pour quallity , and you also saying how they let someone make they'r photos ? That one big level of secressy ! Those guys look badasses ...

I promissed while ago to bring pictures of South African commando . I found couple of bad pictures , bad with it couple of nice movies , so here you go :

http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJOps/specialforcesbrigade/sp%2010.wmv
http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJOps/specialforcesbrigade/sp%2011.wmv
http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJOps/specialforcesbrigade/sp%2019.wmv
http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJOps/specialforcesbrigade/sp%2021.wmv

Thomsen

12-23-2003, 10:28 AM

Dave the Dawg

12-23-2003, 12:34 PM

I promised while ago to bring pictures of South African commando . I found couple of bad pictures , bad with it couple of nice movies...
SADF Special Forces (pre-SANDF)

Click on the thumbnails for the full-sized pictures (the server is in South Africa, so they may be slow to load):

http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acu.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acu.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acm.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acm.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acs.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acs.jpg)

http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/abz.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/abz.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aax.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aax.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aai.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aai.jpg)

http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/abf.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/abf.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/abh.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/abh.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aaf.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aaf.jpg)

http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aao.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aao.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aba.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aba.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acx.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/acx.jpg)

http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aay.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aay.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aaj.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album04/aaj.jpg) http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/aco.thumb.jpg (http://www.recce.co.za/albums/album01/aco.jpg)

AirZone

12-23-2003, 12:51 PM

KSK

http://www.specforces.cz/img/ksk/2.jpg

Airborne Ranger

http://www.hotbarrel.de/mp5sd.gif

http://www.hotbarrel.de/anlanden.jpg

Infantry

http://www.hkpro.com/action9bundesag36.jpg

Kampfschwimmer

http://www.hkpro.com/image/action3ksk1.jpg

niceeeeeeeeeeeeeee... they look badass woot

here some bad ass magav (you dont want to mess with magav special units ;)) unit.. MATILAN -Intelligence Observations Interception and Mobile Warfare Unit ("Modiyin T'azpiyot Yerut VeLohama Nayedet - MATILAN", in Hebrew)

primary role - preventing criminal as well as terrorists element from entering Israeli soil. (after all we dont have a border between Israel and the territories...yet :roll: )

you dont hear alot about those guys but they are doing a very importent job - like stopping suicide bombers before they are entering israeli soil.

http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan-4.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan6.JPG
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan10.JPG
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan5.JPG
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan9.JPG
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan-14.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan-3.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan1.JPG
http://www.isayeret.com/units/civi/matilan/matilan2.JPG[/img]

stimpy

01-10-2004, 01:22 AM

Irish army ranger wing in East Timor

http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor7.jpg
http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor2.jpg
http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor4.jpg
http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor5.jpg
http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor1.jpg
http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor6.jpg

http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/unpics.htm

Wacko

01-10-2004, 12:37 PM

Adri

01-10-2004, 12:56 PM

I can't tell you that becuse is secret.

how many forums have you been to ?
this is the internet, no one belives you..... ;)

Wacko

01-10-2004, 01:07 PM

mustamato

01-10-2004, 02:07 PM

Parachutists. The finnish parachutists main objectives are recon and sabotage behind enemy lines, and they operate in small groups. They are lightly armed and avoid combat.

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Finland/goldwing.gif

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/utjr/a1.jpg

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/tj/arkistot/kuvat/2004-01-09-102.jpg
More supersecret weapons a la swedish SSG :roll:

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/utjr/b1.jpg

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/utjr/b3.jpg

http://www2.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/utjr/b4.jpg

http://www.teres.fi/erna/2001/kuvat/13-CP_Golf/IMG_1823.jpg
Parachute recon

Sissit. Sissi is the finnish name for guerilla. These are pretty much the same as the parachutists except that they are not drop by airplanes, they move on the ground. Operate behind enemy lines, mainly in sabotage, harrasing and ambush-type actions of easy targets such as supply convoys. Like the Iraqi insurgents but more organized. They have a radio operator with them and get instructions from the HQ.

http://www.ky.hkkk.fi/~k71415/inttikuvat/ruk44.jpg
Their patch

http://www.ky.hkkk.fi/~k71415/inttikuvat/ruk10.jpg
They usually don´t wear a combat belt or vest since they are learnt to
avoid the enemy and to avoid combat. The actions against the enemy would be in true guerillastyle. The size of the backpack says a lot, behind enemy lines they would have to survive on their own for up to 30 days.

execrable

01-10-2004, 07:59 PM

http://www.livgardet.mil.se/images/local/mp2.jpg
Swedish MP

http://www.livgardet.mil.se/images/local/mp3.jpg
Swedish MP

http://www.k3.mil.se/images/local/kebnepatrull.jpg
Swedish Parachute Rangers

http://www.k3.mil.se/images/local/morker2.jpg
Swedish Parachute Ranger

http://www.k4.mil.se/images/local/k4_firning.jpg
Swedish Army Ranger

http://www.k4.mil.se/images/local/k4_ag.jpg
Swedish Army Ranger

http://www.k4.mil.se/images/local/skyddsvakt.jpg
Swedish Army Security Guard

http://www.amf1.mil.se/images/local/adyk_640.jpg
Swedish Attack Divers

http://www.amf1.mil.se/images/local/gummi4_640.jpg
Swedish Attack Divers

http://www.amf1.mil.se/images/local/prsk2_640.jpg
Swedish Attack Diver

http://www.amf1.mil.se/images/local/klepper.jpg
Swedish Coastal Rangers

http://www.amf1.mil.se/images/local/full-packning.jpg
Swedish Coastal Ranger

http://www.amf1.mil.se/images/local/kj7.jpg
Swedish Coastal Rangers

Uncle Sam

01-10-2004, 08:23 PM

Are all the Swedish Military some form of "Ranger" Or is this just the High Speed guys.

-Max2-

01-11-2004, 06:14 AM

http://www.amf1.mil.se/images/local/klepper.jpg

These guys are Danish Froemandskorpsets, not Swedish Coastal Rangers... ;)

Nice pics BTW... :)

Seraphim

01-11-2004, 06:19 AM

Are Swedish Army Security Guard similar US MP's?

Adri

01-11-2004, 06:39 AM

I can't tell you that becuse is secret.

how many forums have you been to ?
this is the internet, no one belives you..... ;)
I don't care and i've been in many forums. belive it or not?
But it is secret for the public.

so that is why you (if you know this "secret") goes to a public forum to talk about it ?
if that was a military secret, and you know it then you would't say it here..
:bash:

mustamato

01-11-2004, 09:59 AM

Are all the Swedish Military some form of "Ranger" Or is this just the High Speed guys.

The swedish name is jägare, or jaeger in english. Originally jaeger meant good infantry, even in Sweden, in example Finland still use jääkäri as name for their good offensive infantry while the more defensive regular infantry is just infantry. But after world war 2 the swedish looked at US and their rangers. And the swedish jägare should translate to ranger in a way. But of course all swedish military are not jaegers. Far from it.

Are Swedish Army Security Guard similar US MP's?

The swedish "security guards" are responsible for the security on their regiment and also outside the regiment, in example for the military installations (of all kinds) and trainings areas that is the regiments responsibility. These are considered to be lazy ass useless crap-soldiers by people that did their military service before the late 90´s. After that they got much more responsibility, better equipment and training (in close combat and things like that). This is mainly because the swedish police cannot anylonger keep an eye on the militarys stuff while combatting organized and rising crime rates at the same time. But the "useless crap"-label is still hanging over them. But anyway who cares. They probably know what they can do anyway, but they are absolutely not considered as "special forces", so I don´t know why execrable posted that pic in the first place...

The swedish MP´s are more "police", they are learnt law and juridics and to investigate crimes and such.

More swedish "security guards", these pics has been up before, but what the hell, here they are again, it´s from training to arrest people that is on military area and probably trying to steal something.

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_5_head.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_1.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_2.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_3.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_4.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_7.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_8.jpg
Range: approximately 150 meters

OldRecon

01-11-2004, 11:18 AM

These silenced things remind me of a story told by a former squad-mate of mine about a friend of his, who during service in the UN forces in Lebanon bougth a CAR-15 with silencer on the black market from some locals and had it smuggled home by mail-packet enchased in a "ghetto-blaster" type casette radio.
Smashing the "casette radio" and unpacking the weapon with silencer "the friend of his" and my squadmate went to "the woods" for some test shooting of the weapon.
But upon firing the first shot with the CAR-silencer combination, the silencer flew of the weapon and landed 25 meter away rofl.

Compare it like thisone :-)
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev5_1024.jpg

the grenade launcher is...BS-1
The BS-1 30 mm silenced grenade launcher has appeared under the designation RGA-86 in Russian literature, but it appears that BS-1 is more widely accepted in Russia. Regardless of designation, the Russians have developed an innovative silenced grenade launcher for use by special operations forces.
The BS-1 is always seen mounted on a suppressed version of the 5.45 mm AKS-74U short assault rifle differentiated from the standard AKS-74U by a leather flap that fits on the forestock of the weapon and covers the BS-1 mount when the launcher is not installed; the designation AKS-74UB has been used for this rifle. A silenced grenade launcher is of great utility in a close combat situation as it not only reduces sound, but also reduces flash and smoke.
BS-1 launch cartridges are magazine fed using a bolt action and utilise a special star crimped cartridge. The grenade is muzzle loaded, as with other RFAS underbarrel grenade launchers, but there the similarity ends. Although there has been no explanatory literature as to the functioning of the BS-1, certain aspects of its operation can be deduced. The BS-1 launcher has a large containment chamber behind the barrel with a piston that launches the VOG-T HEAT grenade. The expanding gases of the launch cartridge propel the piston rapidly forward, pushing the grenade from the launcher muzzle. The piston obturates against a shoulder inside the containment chamber and, after the grenade is launched, the gases bleed off quickly enough to allow for a relatively rapid follow-up shot.

Specifications

Calibre: 30 mm
Operation: manual, muzzle loaded; launch cartridges fed from detachable box magazine
Weight: ca 1.5 kg
Length: ca 320 m
Effective range: ca 100 m
Armour penetration: ca 125 mm RHA
Manufacturer: Russian state factories.
Status: In production.

Text Information from Janes Infantry Weapons

But this one is nice too :-)
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev7_1024.jpg

:-) VSS Vintorez
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev1_1024.jpg
SPR :-)
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev2_1024.jpg

and some armour for Oparation Ivy
http://www.americasarmy.com/gallery/wallpaper/dev3_1024.jpg

Javehn

01-11-2004, 12:27 PM

Mustamato wrote :

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_8.jpg
Range-aprox 150 m

Range - aprox 15-30 m . That is called "wide" view (mostly X1.5-X3) .

Couple of Swiss Specops pictures -

http://waronline.procentr.org/Waronline_photo/tous_yu_leau.jpg

http://waronline.procentr.org/Waronline_photo/mpgren2.jpg

http://waronline.procentr.org/Waronline_photo/mpgren1.jpg

http://waronline.procentr.org/Waronline_photo/phase_action.jpg

http://waronline.procentr.org/Waronline_photo/michel.jpg

http://waronline.procentr.org/Waronline_photo/before_the_storm.jpg

mustamato

01-11-2004, 11:58 PM

Mustamato wrote :

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/liq_8.jpg
Range-aprox 150 m

Range - aprox 15-30 m . That is called "wide" view (mostly X1.5-X3) .

No.

M203

01-12-2004, 02:48 AM

Being a swedish jaeger i would oppose the translation ranger. Jaegers operate in smaller units than american rangers (as far as i now) and are more into unconventional warfare and reconnaisance than the american rangers. But yes maybe in some way it could translate into rangers, i prefer jaeger.

have a good one

Wacko

01-12-2004, 12:04 PM

I've found som nice pics

http://upl.mine.nu/uplfolders/upload4/gign_helico.jpg

Some kind of french special forces, I'm not sure.
http://upl.mine.nu/uplfolders/upload4/markus_2_640.jpg

Maybe The Swedish Special Forces SSG?

http://upl.mine.nu/uplfolders/upload4/markus_3_640.jpg

Stupid swedes. Think they are living in the future or som kind of Science Fiction world. That Equipment is too much. You don't need that. Damn idiots.

Eltaejp

01-12-2004, 12:06 PM

Those Swedes are apart from the MARKUS-program, kind of like the US Landwarrior.

Wacko

01-12-2004, 12:21 PM

Those Swedes are apart from the MARKUS-program, kind of like the US Landwarrior.
aha...Well. That accounts for it.

spectre5

01-12-2004, 12:47 PM

Vaco you really seem like an idiot :fork:

Quit bashing other countries you dildo!

mustamato

01-12-2004, 12:53 PM

Stupid swedes. Think they are living in the future or som kind of Science Fiction world. That Equipment is too much. You don't need that. Damn idiots.

http://www.mss.mil.se/taktik/images/local/objforwar1.jpg

USA´s "Objective Force Warrior" :roll:

__________________________________________

The swedish MARKUS-project. It stands for Markstridsutrustad soldat = "Land warfare-equipped soldier".

http://www.mss.mil.se/taktik/images/local/striteke-markus1.jpg

The swedish defence forces is in the changing process now, to the new "network-based defence", this means that the soldier in the field can get and share the information immediately, all swedish military equipment will be NBF-compatible. All from the fighterplanes down to the camera on the soldier.

http://www.mil.se/images/local/nbf_start280.jpg

TriggerPuller

01-12-2004, 12:58 PM

Those cammies seem a little shiny,what type of terrain have they been developed for?

TP

Wacko

01-12-2004, 01:00 PM

Stupid swedes. Think they are living in the future or som kind of Science Fiction world. That Equipment is too much. You don't need that. Damn idiots.

http://www.checkpoint-online.ch/CheckPoint/Images/V-LandWarrior.jpg

:roll:
Yea, but that is a Landwarrior. Not a real soldier, I tought the Swedish Soldier was a real SF Soldier but i was wrong. Sorry guys....

mustamato

01-12-2004, 01:08 PM

Those cammies seem a little shiny,what type of terrain have they been developed for?

TP

Those two are officers, with brand new uniforms and they probably don´t get dirty very often, the only time they have camo on their faces is probably when it´s time to take pictures like those. By the way they should be wearing snow dresses anyway.

Better pics of the camo in its right enviroment:

http://www.mil.se/images/local/front2.jpg

http://www.mhsk.mil.se/yop/images/local/bild_041b.jpg
Officer cadets, already training posing for the cameras, haha! :D

Jack Mehoff

01-13-2004, 12:52 AM

don't worry about it, Swedes probably never going to use their equipments anyway...hahahahah

Wacko

01-13-2004, 04:28 AM

don't worry about it, Swedes probably never going to use their equipments anyway...hahahahah
Yea, we just bomb them ;) They got nothing against F-22. Delta Force would probably crush them too :P

16 OBr SpN

01-13-2004, 06:58 AM

fantassin

01-13-2004, 03:30 PM

Some kind of french special forces, I'm not sure.

That's the cover picture of a 15 years old book on the different special groups of the French Gendarmerie.

The guys in the Alouette III are GIGN, the guys in civvies are GSPR (BG of the highest civilian authorities) and the guys in the back on the P4 vehicles are EPIGN, the parachute Squadron of the Gendarmerie.

All this kit is now long gone.

Antaris

01-14-2004, 05:20 PM

don't worry about it, Swedes probably never going to use their equipments anyway...hahahahah
Yea, we just bomb them ;) They got nothing against F-22. Delta Force would probably crush them too :P

You two idiots, are major ****heads, what oh what, do you know? have you ever done military service? i would guess not. And oh "Jack", we have been in peace for the last oh.. 180 years or so. That´s something to be proud of, and i am.

We, do not seek war like you (yes AMERICA) do. Mr "Vaco", get some brains, read a book, learn some before you open your big ****ing mouth of idiotism.

Now.. sorry for this outburst of immaturity, but i cant stand it when dumb people open their mouths about something they dont know jack-**** about.

Javehn

01-14-2004, 05:30 PM

just stumbled at the pic on their forum.
Photo taken in Chechnya. I've got this strange feeling that it's spetsnaz GRU, 22 OBr SpN. ;)

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/1248Russian_snipers03.jpg

Second guy , is that a night sight ? Damn big one . Nice picture.
Nice guilly suites they have also . The last guy , why he carry the MG belt like that ?

mustamato

01-14-2004, 05:37 PM

don't worry about it, Swedes probably never going to use their equipments anyway...hahahahah

Is that a bad thing? :petting:

Yea, we just bomb them ;) They got nothing against F-22. Delta Force would probably crush them too :P

http://imagebase.saab.se/ibsaab/file/saab/D01-/D01-1121/low/D01-1121.jpg
Well, the F-22 would have something to do atleast

http://www.panzerbaer.de/types/pix/strv_122.jpg
... so would Delta Force

fantassin

01-14-2004, 05:40 PM

Sweden has currently got one of the world's best tank the STR 122, one of the best ever IFV, the CV90/40 and plenty of units (Coast jaegers, K4, SSG...) that are very very good.

The amount of kit they have is unbelievable; they have more tanks and IFV than the British or the French armies for example.

In case of a war against Russia, they were expecting to hold off 40 Russian divisions; that should give anybody a pretty good idea of the Swedish Army's strength.

And they've got the Lottas! I would not mess with a drunken Lotta...

mustamato

01-14-2004, 05:50 PM

And they've got the Lottas! I would not mess with a drunken Lotta...

http://www.mdg.mil.se/gotlandsgruppen/images/local/alize.jpg

Could easily kick Vacos ass atleast.

Russian Texan

01-14-2004, 10:12 PM

In case of a war against Russia, they were expecting to hold off 40 Russian divisions; that should give anybody a pretty good idea of the Swedish Army's strength.

Expected by whom?

Dmitri

01-14-2004, 11:08 PM

I would guess Swedes themselfes expected that. :lol: I just donno :roll:
Hold off for how long? An hour? (Just kidding, but still wondering)

mustamato

01-14-2004, 11:22 PM

I would guess Swedes themselfes expected that. :lol: I just donno :roll:
Hold off for how long? An hour? (Just kidding, but still wondering)

Well, I think that in case of war during the cold war, and a Soviet offensive in the north, (Lapland that is) the finns would have let the ruskies just pass on to Sweden, the finns would have concentrated their defence in the southern parts of Finland. But of course with guerilla units making life bad for you and with mines all the way. So when they would have been at the swedish border they would already be quite softened up. Russians have been useless (ww2 just look at the bodycount on the finnish-russian front, and you probably still are) fighting in terrain like that in northern Finland or Sweden, it´s a defenders paradise. You can´t drive tanks or anything there anyway so it´s just up to a fight man against man, or eerhm, should I say the finnish lion vs. the russian bear?

http://www.borealforest.org/world/images/scandinavia.jpg

But cold war planning had in mind that you would probably be insane enough to actually tactically nuke us before. That would have made things a little more complicated of course. That included, Sweden would have lasted a month probably if time had permitted a full mobilization of the whole army, 750.000 soldiers (for Finland about 500.000), and then NATO would have comed to our help if they were not defeated before (which I very much doubt). Remember that both Denmark and Norway are NATO-territory. But both Finland and Sweden have trained (and are training) soldiers in guerilla-tactics. In Sweden that was/is called "free war", which simply means small units blowing up things (that was actually the part I liked most during my military service :) aaah there is nothing like TNT) Sort of like the Iraqi insurgents now but more organized.

So yeah sure, you could have occupied us, but could you have defeated us? Theoretically I think this is quite a interesting question actually.

And in case if you wonder how it is today, Finland has strengthened its defence forces considerably vs. the russian one, or to put it better, the russian one has weakened. But in Sweden the defence forces has been slaughtered after the cold war. Estimates today say that Sweden would last 48 hours. And I´m not kidding.

NcDeuce

01-15-2004, 12:27 AM

http://www.mdg.mil.se/gotlandsgruppen/images/local/alize.jpg

WTF? rofl

Russian Texan

01-15-2004, 12:32 AM

Well, I think that in case of war during the cold war, and a Soviet offensive in the north, (Lapland that is) the finns would have let the ruskies just pass on to Sweden, the finns would have concentrated their defence in the southern parts of Finland. But of course with guerilla units making life bad for you and with mines all the way. So when they would have been at the swedish border they would already be quite softened up. Russians have been useless (ww2 just look at the bodycount on the finnish-russian front, and you probably still are) fighting in terrain like that in northern Finland or Sweden, it´s a defenders paradise. You can´t drive tanks or anything there anyway so it´s just up to a fight man against man, or eerhm, should I say the finnish lion vs. the russian bear?

http://www.borealforest.org/world/images/scandinavia.jpg

But cold war planning had in mind that you would probably be insane enough to actually tactically nuke us before. That would have made things a little more complicated of course. That included, Sweden would have lasted a month probably if time had permitted a full mobilization of the whole army, 750.000 soldiers (for Finland about 500.000), and then NATO would have comed to our help if they were not defeated before (which I very much doubt). Remember that both Denmark and Norway are NATO-territory. But both Finland and Sweden have trained (and are training) soldiers in guerilla-tactics. In Sweden that was/is called "free war", which simply means small units blowing up things (that was actually the part I liked most during my military service :) aaah there is nothing like TNT) Sort of like the Iraqi insurgents now but more organized.

So yeah sure, you could have occupied us, but could you have defeated us? Theoretically I think this is quite a interesting question actually.

And in case if you wonder how it is today, Finland has strengthened its defence forces considerably vs. the russian one, or to put it better, the russian one has weakened. But in Sweden the defence forces has been slaughtered after the cold war. Estimates today say that Sweden would last 48 hours. And I´m not kidding.

That was almost as entertaining read as Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising" :)
I think conventional forces wise it all would be decided in a matter of hours but guerilla warfare would last for much longer/indefinitely. It be something similar to the French resistance during WW2.
There is an expression: "Poking an elephant with a needle", well in this case it's a bear :) but a million needle pokes would do damage even to an elephant/bear ;)

el_Bromso

01-15-2004, 09:58 AM

Vaco: What planet are you from?

If you would take the time to pull out your head from your ass and actually read something you would learn that many combat related articles that you have in your army are Sweden made!
The Aimpoint sight, the two engine´s on the F-14 (I have heard that some parts are manufactured on newer Americans airfighters), your AT4, your 40mm automatic cannon (that are for example mounted on AC 130 Gunship) to just mention a few.
And your little regard about your F-22 combat airplanes are just a Gen2. We here in Sweden have JAS-39 Gripen that are a Gen3. JAS stands for JaktAttackSpaning = HuntAttackRecon (I don´t know any else word for Hunt)
And to take your M1A1 Abrahams tanks could not stand our environment for one second. How do I know? Because there have been great test´s between the LeClerk (the french), the M1A1 Abrahams and the Leopard (the German)... The Leopard came out as a winner in our climates! And we bought it!
FFS your tank couldn’t even move without breaking the pansarband or something else in our climates/environment… Sure it’s great for desert combating… But how much desert do you think we have here in Sweden?

Now you will proberly say what your AH-64 Apache, RAH-66 Commanche and the Stealth Bomber would bomb us Swedes to the Stone Age… Wrong again, heard of a company named Eriksson? Is that a Swedish name perhaps? Yes, and they doesn’t just make mobile phones. The make advance radar systems. They make the only radar system that can spot this babies from secure distances and with air robots take them down.

Do every soldier in USA have any cold weather training? Or else you wouldn’t last a second in our climate.

Why are there allot of high ranked officers from the USA in Sweden to check out our army and so on? Because we have something called training. I mean for god sakes you have officers that looked over your officers… How smart is that? Don’t you trust your officers/soldiers? I mean the infantry have a burst function instead of automatic on there weapons, why do you think that? Because if you had automatic which you had under the Vietnam War you would empty all your ammo on one enemy. Back to trust, doesn’t the American army trust the American soldier?

And your remark of our combat system MARKUS: Why have the American army tried to buy it from us? Is perhaps that yours didn’t work so well as ours?

I have done foreign service in the UN/FN, and the one thing I have learned is that many Americans lack the respect for the indigenes population and that your are not very popular where you set down your foot because of that attitude, that many of your fellow Americans bears with them in war, just like you Vaco!

BUT let’s put this in a perspective!!! How near are the Americans and Swedes a war as enemies?
For God sakes man, you have to put down this ***** competion of yours and start to be more humble. I mean if the Swedes are attack by the Russians we will fight until we can get reinforcement’s of you guys thru Norway (because Norway is NATO country, we Swedes is not). There for we are in some way allies with you. And we Swedes are, in case of war, your only hope of ever have a dominant position over the Atlantic- and Baltic sea.
But this not even remotely realistic. Instead of showing of how big this and this is, try to figure out to catch that mother ****er Bin Laden, try to form out a plan to destroy those terrorist, because they my friend are the real COMMON enemy TODAY! Both for you and me! And we MUST and HAVE to work TOGETHER to solve this problem.

Now, I will proberly offend every American by writing like I did and that is not my intention. I’m not saying every living American is a pig, I KNOW for a fact that if the Americans would like to take over Sweden, you would crush us like a bug. I just would like the respect and a humble meeting when I meet an American soldier because of one reason. You are using war material that are being researched, designed, manufactured and produced by the folks here in Sweden, simple as that.
We are a peace keeping people, we do peace keeping processes in Afgahnistan, Kongo, Kosovo. We did the main search for bio/chemy bombs in Iraqi, and have you found anything yet that wasn’t in that report?
So all remarks that Sweden are little and so on, go and **** of! Because, if you like it or not, we are a team here, and teams go in for the win! not to measure there fakking *****es!

mustamato

01-15-2004, 10:06 AM

That was almost as entertaining read as Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising" :)
I think conventional forces wise it all would be decided in a matter of hours but guerilla warfare would last for much longer/indefinitely. It be something similar to the French resistance during WW2.
There is an expression: "Poking an elephant with a needle", well in this case it's a bear :) but a million needle pokes would do damage even to an elephant/bear ;)

- Well I know that Soviet litterature and even russian today are affected by that you didn´t manage to defeat us during world war 2. Officially the war on the finnish-russian front didn´t even exist. And if it is told about it was the finns that attacked Soviet! Which is of course just too much. But check your (non-russian) litterature about the bodycount and see for yourselfes.

- Afghanistan

- Chechnya

Russians are simply ineffective.

Hydro

01-15-2004, 10:13 AM

el_Bromso: Yeah, well, you use our British SUSAT ;)

That Carl Gustav you Swedes made was an especially classic piece of kit.

Russians are simply ineffective? Methinks not!

el_Bromso

01-15-2004, 10:16 AM

My point with all of this is that we NEED SOME FREAKING MORE RESPECT for each other.

Lack of Respect = Enemies = WAR

And I don't want war. I want peace!

Russian Texan

01-15-2004, 10:20 AM

el_Bromso

01-15-2004, 10:29 AM

I don't know how Sweden would lead there because we do not have the proper resoucers or the manpower to take on an such big mission for our selfes.
You better ask the britt... They had a real good contact with the population down in Kosovo. The patrulled must of all of us there, and they treated the population good. And in return they got most tips where secret hideouts of weopons where located, wanted people and so on.

My hat goes of to the british people...

Russian Texan

01-15-2004, 10:43 AM

You do realise that peacekeeping mission in Kosovo is a different kind of situation/concept from Afganistan and Chechnya, right?
That example is invalid

mustamato

01-15-2004, 10:50 AM

I haven't done any research on Russon-Finnish war so I'm not going to make any comments, but i do know that USSR lost a lot of soldiers there that were underequiped and poorly led (Stalin and his policies ensured that).

What is your definition of effectivnes and why Afganistan & Chechnya, how would Sweden deal with those situations?

Hehe. More of that Soviet propaganda. "Underequipped". Compared to what? Germany? Possible. Compared to the finns that hadn´t anything? No. In short the ruskies lost over 500.000 soldiers on the finnish-russian front. The finns lost about 85.000. How many ruskies is difficult to say because Soviet official estimates is just too low, and the german (1 million russians) and possibly even the finnish might be too high. But it´s there 350.000 - 500.000 somewhere. You ruskies know it, but you just don´t admit it. And you never had fewer soldiers than us obviously. There is a famous finnish saying. "1 finn is as good as 10 russians, but the problem starts when the 11th russian comes". Hehe.

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4108MainilanOikeatLaukaukset18.Divisioona.jpg
"To Mainila" in 1941, russian village which the russians claimed had
been shelled by the finns in 1939, and that was the excuse to attack
Finland, the village was shelled yes, but two years later

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4108Rautj%E4rvenMaastossa.jpg
Finnish troops advancing, hum destroyed T-26? Or whatever that is

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4109SommeenMottiHyl%E4tty%E4Kalustoa.jpg
From Sommeen motti, the finns encircled three divisions and crushed
two of them, the third fled but left their equipment. This was important
for the continuing finnish war because of the heavy material the finns got.
It was however not the first time, nor the last this happened. Maybe the
russian soldiers didn´t have confidence in Papa Stalin? 138.000 russians
were killed (counted for and burried by the finns) during the finnish
offensive phase in 1941. The russian left-behind equipment was huuge

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4109Pr%E4%E4s%E4l%E4nTiell%E4TuhottuKlimVoroshilov.jpg
Destroyed Klim Voroshilov

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4110LaguksenTankitPetroskoihin.jpg
Finnish captured tank in Petrozavodsk

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4407Tali-Ihantala.jpg
Finnish soldiers (even though they look german, but look closely), and
destroyed Soviet T-34/85

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4407KannasVuosalmiPST-tykinSiirtoa.jpg
Finns moving their captured 45 mm anti-tank gun to new positions.
Actually most of the heavy equipment the finns had we captured from
you guys, that says a lot, doesn´t it?

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4407KannasPanssarinyrkkiAmpumavalmiina.jpg
Finnish propaganda pic (probably staged) with a Sovet SU-152

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4407KannasPST-tykkiTuhoaaVihollisenTankin.jpg
Finnish AT-gun has destroyed a russian T-34(?)

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4406ViipuriVen%E4l%E4isetMarssivatViipuriin.jpg
[i]Soviet soldiers in Viborg, the finns left the town without a shot being
fired in a debacle that left the commander courtmartialed after the war,
according to the ruskies it was taken "by force", even their own photos
show what bull**** that claim is. Like all the others the russians have
made. :lol:

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4406JosefStalin-TankkiKannaksella.jpg
Destroyed Josef Stalin-tank

Quite a "inferior equipment" the ruskies had eh? :roll:

The point in comparing with Chechnya and Afghanistan was, as I said in my previous post. Guerilla training is given to us. And combine that with our terrain. Sure we would try to make a stand in conventional units first, but if, or when rather they were crushed the soldiers would carry on in a guerilla war. I don´t think that most swedes would like to live in a communist dictatorship. And I do know that the finns wouldn´t want it. The point in putting the finns and swedes together is that they would fight together, history and geography has made us brothers.

el_Bromso

01-15-2004, 10:50 AM

Every war situation is diffrent! And no, I wouldn't even propose that I have answere to a 1/1000 of all this question... I would just like to see people given each other more respect on this forum. And that does not just goes for Swedes, it goes for any national belonging.

Hydro

01-15-2004, 10:54 AM

Have you even thought that *shock horror* the Russians have changed? The Soviet Union doesn't exist, you can't even begin to compare the Russian Military of over 60 years ago to the modern Russian Military fighting in Chechnya!!! Just because you defeated the Soviets 64 years ago doesn't mean you could today or tomorrow! THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

mustamato

01-15-2004, 11:05 AM

THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

Yeah? They have new material. New tanks and stuff. So have we. Actually we are stronger than ever before in history vs. Russia according to defence analysts. Each finnish infantry platoon is capable of destroying even the most advanced russian tanks. During world war 2 that was not the case. Etc etc. But in most other aspects it would be exactly the same thing. If they attacked us they would have a insane leader that their soldiers don´t have confidence in (think russian conscripts during the first Chechen war), and we would still be fighting for our homes and motherland and be ready to sacrifice our lives for it. Wouldn´t you die for Papa Blair? :)

Hydro

01-15-2004, 11:14 AM

Wouldn´t you die for Papa Blair? :)

No. We don't really get invaded often. If we were, however, by TEH COMMIES!111 [/sarcasm] I'd be there, fighting. Not for any politician, however. Unfortunately though, this world is full of scheming politician scum, I don't really have a choice.

Russian Texan

01-15-2004, 11:26 AM

Mustamato, listen man, you are paranoid....
Were you really brainwashed that hard?
I was raised with the notion of USSR being big on propaganda but after meeting some people from other countries - I start thinking that whatever USSR did was a kids play compare to some....

"Russo Finnish war" is largely unknown in Russia is not because that someone trying to hide something almost 70 years after it happened, it because no one cares. It is sorta a "forgotten war".
And yes from what I read - USSR troops were underequiped in terms of clothing and small arms (finns were equiped with submachine guns which had a devastating effect against russian troops equiped with rifles).
Once thing I did learn from talking to people from different countries - there is a difference in a scale of thinking: small country - small/little terms/scale of thinking, big country - large scale. Russian society tends not to think, concentrate on events like war with a country size of Liningradskaya oblast' no matter what the outcome was because there were other bigger and more significant events in its history....
It is not that someone is trying to forget, it is just that no one cares...

Guerilla warfare means specnaz on your ass :)

http://www.mdg.mil.se/gotlandsgruppen/images/local/alize.jpg

VS

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/1248Russian_snipers03.jpg

And guess on whom I would bet my money....

Besides Russia(unfortunately) has completely different tolerance level for human/material losses and that would be a decisive factor.

el_Bromso

01-15-2004, 11:38 AM

Good comparisment Russian Texan... rofl

A swedish Lotta core woman -VS- A steel hard speznaz

rofl

mustamato

01-15-2004, 11:41 AM

And yes from what I read - USSR troops were underequiped in terms of clothing and small arms (finns were equiped with submachine guns which had a devastating effect against russian troops equiped with rifles)

http://www.continet.com/montyipsc/shpagin-41-2.gif

Hum, so the russians didn´t have PPD-34, PPD-40, PPSh-41 and PPS-43 then? :)

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4407KannasKPmiesVuosalmella.jpg
Finn with captured PPSh-41. I wonder from where he captured that...

But yeah, I know that you don´t care. 500.000 dead ruskies are forgotten, how and why they died is not important. That is really scary as hell if you ask me. But back to the question. I would rather think that you boys would meet our more ordinary soldier. That grandma was of course just a volunteer in the auxilliaries.

http://www.users.wineasy.se/mags/bassak/bilder/uppst.jpg
Guys especially trained to track and encounter Spetsnaz-type of soldiers

vs.

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Talvisota/Piirrokset/SuomalainenLentolehtinenViholliselle1.jpg

:D

Hydro

01-15-2004, 11:58 AM

Jesus, you sound like the guys in the US that are convinced that "RED DAWN" is coming, and the Chinese and Russians will be kicking down your door tomorrow morning!

Russian Texan

01-15-2004, 11:59 AM

Are you absolutely positively sure it is PPSh 41 during Winter war?
http://www.continet.com/montyipsc/ppsh.html

Hum, so the russians didn´t have PPD-34, PPD-40, PPSh-41 and PPS-43 then?
What do you think numbers 40, 41, 43 mean? :roll:

In case you didn't get it, that picture comparison was a joke.

About hypothetical USSR invasion, granted that you'd fight hard for your country but in the end it wouldn't matter - result will be the same regardless...

mustamato

01-15-2004, 12:02 PM

Jesus, you sound like the guys in the US that are convinced that "RED DAWN" is coming, and the Chinese and Russians will be kicking down your door tomorrow morning!

Or you should read what I wrote again and push the wild imagination button on OFF while doing it. The ruskies won´t attack us now. It´s more likely that Bush (and with his little puppet Britain with him) would do it. Who knows, we might have developed our own WMD. I´m sure MI6 can write a report or two about that :roll: But this about Russias capabilities was just speculation of course.

el_Bromso

01-15-2004, 12:09 PM

Russian Texan: I understood the joke, i just thought i was so damn funny! :lol: rofl

Russian Texan

01-15-2004, 12:11 PM

I know you did, I was talking to mustamato

mustamato

01-15-2004, 12:29 PM

Are you absolutely positively sure it is PPSh 41 during Winter war?
http://www.continet.com/montyipsc/ppsh.html

Hum, so the russians didn´t have PPD-34, PPD-40, PPSh-41 and PPS-43 then?
What do you think numbers 40, 41, 43 mean? :roll:

I think it means that PPD-34 was used during the Winter War 1939-40, and the PPD-40 possibly in the end phase of it. It is naive to talk about that the finns had better small arms. The ruskies came (amongst others) with their automatic rifles (AVS-36 Simonov, SVT-38 Tokarev of which 3000 were captured), their DP light machineguns and their submachine guns. The finns had one m/31 submachine gun per squad, for the squadleader, the rest had Mosin-Nagant bolt action rifles, and one man in the squad had a m/26 Lahti-Saloranta LMG. However captured DP machineguns were taken into use immediately, also the SVT-38 Tokarevs, while the AVS-36´s were too unreliable.

PPSh-41 was a simplified version of PPD-40 that was used on the finnish-russian front in what the finns call "Continuation War" 1941-1944. These were captured (with drum-type magazine) already from the beginning to the end (usually stick-type magazine). I think you call this war "the great patriotic war", and Finland was its northern front. Or is this great patriotic war another one of those forgotten and ignored chapters in your history?

About hypothetical USSR invasion, granted that you'd fight hard for your country but in the end it wouldn't matter - result will be the same regardless...

You have tried since the 13th century... and our capital is still not Mocba.

I know you did, I was talking to mustamato

Yeah and I answered with a joke? Not funny? Maybe this is then:

http://216.198.255.120/documents/propaganda.jpg

Russian Texan

01-15-2004, 12:37 PM

Did I personally try it since 13th century?

I like scandinavian countries, I even considered bying Volvo once :)

All of those weapons that you have mentioned were isued in limited numbers, overwhelming majority of troops had Mosin rifles.
The bottom line is that Finns were better prepared, led and fought for their own country on their own land which resulted in high soviet casualties and negotiations.

Yeah and I answered with a joke? Not funny? Maybe this is then
http://216.198.255.120/documents/propaganda.jpg

I can't say it is funny given how many people died, but I do find it ironic considering the outcome of WW2 and fate of Hungarians, Romanians, Poles, etc. during the Cold War.

mustamato

01-15-2004, 12:50 PM

The bottom line is that Finns were better prepared, led and fought for their own country on their own land which resulted in high soviet casualties and negotiations.

Wouldn´t that be the case today as well? One interesting fact is atleast that the finns has so much russian equipment, but usually with western optronics and optics. A intersting mix, ensuring that captured weapons and ammunition easily can be used by finnish troops. In example the classical and trusty ZU-23-2 has been modified to this:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/enforcer/mpp-porvoo/Dscf0013.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/enforcer/mpp-porvoo/Dscf0014.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/enforcer/mpp-porvoo/Dscf0045.jpg

___________________________________________

By the way Volvo is american nowadays, owned by GM. There is little swedish to it now. The new Saab 9-2x is a true disgrace to all that is, or was swedish. GM ordered them to make a new car but it couldn´t cost anything, so they took a Subaru and put some Saab-stickers on it, making it a Saabaru. It´s a shame. I personally prefer french and german cars nowadays.

http://www.saabcentral.com/assets/img/features/92x_coll.jpg

fantassin

01-15-2004, 01:10 PM

They were expecting the USSR to have to cover about 1,200 km before reaching the "useful" parts of Sweden in the South of the country.

Before doing that, the Soviets would have had to cross a dozen rivers above 100 metres of width and another 25 of smaller size but still major.

The "plan" was to delay the Soviets by constant ambushes, either with light forces or with the STR 122, the S tanks or CV90s with the Flygvapnet overhead flying top cover and the submarine fleet prowling the waters to prevent amphibious landings.

On a 10 millions population, the Swedes could have fielded close to 1 million soldiers...

Sweden was one of the best protected country ever; things are changing fast now though...

Russian Texan

01-15-2004, 02:50 PM

Wouldn´t that be the case today as well?

No it wouldn't because Russia recently went through 3 guerilla type wars and gained invaluable experience in dealing with those types of situations.
I do not know much about quality and numbers of finns equipment nowadays so I'm not saying anything but as far as combat experience goes - all of the russian army units, I think except Kremlins regiment, have had/still having recent combat experience. Training is great but it is not a substitute...

But what's a point of invading you guys if you don't even make Volvos anymore and ABBA has retired....

mustamato

01-15-2004, 03:15 PM

But what's a point of invading you guys if you don't even make Volvos anymore and ABBA has retired....

There is nothing like swedish meatballs.

By the way just to sum up my "the finns had in no way superior small arms"-argument, there is a new finnish war movie coming up soon, here are some pictures from the making of it, the finnish veteran organizations have had a hand in making of this movie, so it should be very authentic when it comes to the equipment they used:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/%7Ejkt/keskik/ryssat.jpg
Quite a ordinary squadmix of weapons?

http://koti.mbnet.fi/%7Ejkt/keskik/emma-mies.jpg
Finn with captured DP machine gun, or "Emma" as it was nicknamed

http://koti.mbnet.fi/%7Ejkt/keskik/kv-mies.jpg
Mosin-Nagant

http://koti.mbnet.fi/%7Ejkt/pieni/kaarimma_hihat.jpg
Suomi SMG´s and Mosin-Nagants, the finnish military is also supporting
the making of this movie, which can be seen by the artillery officer with
the modern uniform

http://koti.mbnet.fi/%7Ejkt/iso/kp-mies_kranumontussa.jpg
Captured PPSh-41

http://koti.mbnet.fi/%7Ejkt/keskik/ryhma_rama.jpg

Tygryssek

01-15-2004, 04:45 PM

[quote=Russian Texan]The bottom line is that Finns were better prepared, led and fought for their own country on their own land which resulted in high soviet casualties and negotiations.

Wouldn´t that be the case today as well? One interesting fact is atleast that the finns has so much russian equipment, but usually with western optronics and optics. A intersting mix, ensuring that captured weapons and ammunition easily can be used by finnish troops. In example the classical and trusty ZU-23-2 has been modified to this:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/enforcer/mpp-porvoo/Dscf0013.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/enforcer/mpp-porvoo/Dscf0014.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/enforcer/mpp-porvoo/Dscf0045.jpg

Poland produces modernized version of ZU-23-2 calledJODEK. ZU-23-2TG is equpped with Prexer opto-electronic sight system and laucher container for 2 Mesko "Grom" IR guided Anti Aircraft missiles.
The "Grom" missile is very accurate missile like "Stinger" or "Igla". One shoot, one aircraft wreck. p-)

mustamato

01-15-2004, 05:46 PM

Poland produces modernized version of ZU-23-2 calledJODEK. ZU-23-2TG is equpped with Prexer opto-electronic sight system and laucher container for 2 Mesko "Grom" IR guided Anti Aircraft missiles.
The "Grom" missile is very accurate missile like "Stinger" or "Igla". One shoot, one aircraft wreck. p-)

http://www.jed.simonides.org/artillery/zulu/zu-23_series/jod-1/jod1.jpg

Is it still manually aimed by the crew? The main improvement of the upgraded finnish version is that it has motorized aiming. One battery (of 3 guns) are connected together, they are remotely controlled and aimed automatically at the same target. The gunners job is mainly to confirm that the gun has the plane/helicopter in sight and fire the gun. But of course the gunner can himself aim the gun if necessary, to his help he has a thermal imager and night vision device. I have a friend that served as a gunner on one of these, it was very accurate and powerfull, good reliability as well. On the downside is that it lacks proper protection (so they was learnt to dig it down which was a pain in the ass) and is quit heavy, with the upgrade it has a weight of nearly a ton.

http://www.ilmatorjunta.fi/lohtaja/sergei_600.jpg
Although from "range shooting" it gives an idea of how much
earth that has to be removed to dig down the gun, not very
fun during the winter when the earth is hard as stone

I don´t know why they didn´t put a missile or two on the finnish upgrade. Igla M are used in Finland, often together with these Zu-23-2´s. Perhaps they want them "spread out" and not together, or maybe it was to save cash.