Possible US Base Movement to Poland [Archive]

wholagun

12-06-2003, 02:35 PM

‘Poland ready to consider allowing US bases on its territory’

WARSAW: Defence Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski said on Friday that Poland, a former Soviet satellite, was ready to consider allowing US bases on its territory if such a request was made.

"US Undersecretary of Defence Douglas Feith arrives in Poland on Monday to discuss the issue of US bases overseas," defence ministry spokesman Colonel Adam Stasinski said. Szmajdzinski said the government and President Aleksander Kwasniewski must also discuss the base issue with Poland’s political parties and listen to public opinion. Consultations should also be held with Poland’s allies and neighbours, PAP news agency quoted him as saying. "US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s deputy will visit us on Monday. There will be talks, we’ll see whether a proposal is made because so far there has not been one," Szmajdzinski added.

President Bush announced last month that the US was stepping up discussions with key European and Asian allies about the overhaul of US global military deployments.

A senior US administration official said the president was not accelerating the process of revamping deployments, just moving ahead with planned consultations with key allies on where best to position US forces.

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/dec2003-daily/06-12-2003/world/w16.htm

Do foreign army bases pay taxes? :| Dumb question I know but Im curious.
US troops will be more then welcome in Poland. Good for the economy, good for our military and good for security. Although US troops in Germany if they come to Poland they may find it more difficult to get around and stuff since we're still developing. But give it time. ;)

Dalleer

12-06-2003, 02:37 PM

So the US has new friends now, the US can also go and play with them on their new friends' playgrounds...

Vance

12-06-2003, 02:39 PM

Yep. We're cool like that

wholagun

12-06-2003, 02:39 PM

the US can also go and play with them on their new friends' playgrounds

My dad was telling me when he was conscripted into the Polish army back in the early 80s for his required service as an MP, he told me that Poland had one of the biggest if not THE biggest single training area. Im not sure if thats changed as of late.

Vance

12-06-2003, 02:40 PM

You know what would be cool? Since our soldiers are based in places like Japan, Germany, Italy, South Korea, etc., it'd be awesome to have some their soldiers based in the US...

Marshall

12-06-2003, 02:41 PM

So the US has new friends now, the US can also go and play with them on their new friends' playgrounds...

But... Poland has a pool. And their Mom is hot.

Marshall

12-06-2003, 02:42 PM

You know what would be cool? Since our soldiers are based in places like Japan, Germany, Italy, South Korea, etc., it'd be awesome to have some their soldiers based in the US...

I remember reading that German Navy Tornado pilots rotate in and out of NAS Fallon all the time.

UoUo

12-06-2003, 02:59 PM

For what USA need a base in poland ?

duck

12-06-2003, 03:03 PM

For holding troops to be deployed in Africa, Central Asia and the ME. Also safe logistics bases for materiel and manpower coming from the mainland USA. Apart from Poland, also Bulgaria, Rumania and several other new NATO members are ready to host American troops.

perdurabo

12-06-2003, 03:09 PM

For what USA need a base in poland ?
they not hot welcomed in germany and france is now quite anti-us, Poland helped in USA from 90 and we have biggest playgrounds in whole europe actually few ones reeely big:) even whole little city for urban fight training:D (not small vilage but city it was little city in germans time pre ww2 but after war it wasen't settled so army trains there :) ) Italians, Brits, Holland and meany others train here it's cheeper than in west and its bigger terain :) so welcome american friends:P

army cadet_ngcsu

12-06-2003, 04:06 PM

I visited Poland last year and loved the country. The people are nice, everything is cheap, and their women are hot. I hope we move our bases there.

Jack Mehoff

12-06-2003, 04:12 PM

You know what would be cool? Since our soldiers are based in places like Japan, Germany, Italy, South Korea, etc., it'd be awesome to have some their soldiers based in the US...

For what? U.S. armed forces spread all over the world is for fast deployment purpose and we can afford it. I really don't see why Japan, Germany, Italy , SK, etc. should waste their own money and put their troops in U.S. soil

Jack Mehoff

12-06-2003, 04:13 PM

For what USA need a base in poland ?

rapid deployment to any hot spot in Europe.

wholagun

12-06-2003, 04:24 PM

rapid deployment to any hot spot in Europe

Good point.
If you look at the map of Europe we are in the very centre from North to South, West to East.

perdurabo

12-06-2003, 04:25 PM

I visited Poland last year and loved the country. The people are nice, everything is cheap, and their women are hot. I hope we move our bases there.
oh you are that one that few of my friends kicked ass for trying to hug our girls?:> lol i'm kidding but STAY AWAY ;-)

Herrmannek

12-06-2003, 04:53 PM

I'll tell you a secret. Polish girls have weaknes to foreginers :), wich means that male part of popualation.... :-*$

perdurabo

12-06-2003, 05:22 PM

realy this drives me nuts :fork: :slap: :-*$ :bash: :backhand: but what i know some girls abroad love us ;-) for our good manners(god in bed..) and gentle(better than others...) and other stuff (just superb in bed.. rofl [joke])
but if you go somwhere else than warsow or big citys try to don't notice girls espetially in tatry mountines (not turist ones but oryginal "góralki") because you can be beaten seriusly trust me i've seen meny "acktions" one wrong step and your out so as your teath and blod ;-)

UoUo

12-06-2003, 06:13 PM

BTW : this year i will visit poland with my school....

Fioraon

12-06-2003, 06:47 PM

Germany is a very nice location, never benn to poland so no comment.

aeternum

12-06-2003, 06:49 PM

Yea, send all the US troops to Poland, you have my vote on that one. Just dont forget to host for the tommys too. They obviously dont have enough barracks on their island to host the units still in Germany.. or what is their reason beeing still in Germany...

Deuterium

12-06-2003, 06:50 PM

A little known fact. Germany has a base/unit stationed here in America. All you Google pros, first one with the right answer???

Deuterium

12-06-2003, 06:51 PM

Oh I can agree with the assertion that Polish chicks are HOT!!!

aeternum

12-06-2003, 06:54 PM

@wholagun

http://img-b.flagspot.net/p/pl-afs93.gif

Is this the insigna of the Polish Air Force? Im curious, since when do they use this one?

It reminds me of the tactical symbol the german wehrmacht used during WWII as indicator of an Army Group
http://www.panzerdiesel.com/data/d/2tbi01.html

tooms

12-06-2003, 06:56 PM

@wholagun

http://img-b.flagspot.net/p/pl-afs93.gif

Is this the insigna of the Polnish Air Force? Im curious, since when do they use this one?

It reminds me of the tactical symbol the german wehrmacht used during WWII as indicator of an Army Group
http://www.panzerdiesel.com/data/d/2tbi01.html

you want to be flamed ? :D

duck

12-06-2003, 06:57 PM

The german air force command in El Paso, TX?

Deuterium

12-06-2003, 06:59 PM

That's one. Yes shocking(?) or not. German military has bases on US soil. It has more to do with open spaces and training areas than some nefarious plot.

aeternum

12-06-2003, 06:59 PM

A little known fact. Germany has a base/unit stationed here in America. All you Google pros, first one with the right answer???

Just for training purpose:

1. Deutsches Luftwaffenkommando USA / Canada / El Paso, USA
http://www.luftwaffe.de/C1256C770036BB94/FrameDocname/BerDtLwKdoUSCA_Home?open&at=_ALT

2. Fliegerisches Ausbildungszentrum der Luftwaffe / Holloman, USA
http://www.luftwaffe.de/C1256C770036BB94/FrameDocname/FlgAusbZLw_Home?open&at=_ALT

3. Raketenschule der Luftwaffe / El Paso, USA
http://www.luftwaffe.de/C1256C770036BB94/FrameDocname/RakSLwUSA_Home?open&at=_ALT

Deuterium

12-06-2003, 07:00 PM

aeternum

12-06-2003, 07:01 PM

perdurabo

12-06-2003, 07:03 PM

BTW : this year i will visit poland with my school....
:hug: oh one of those shool trips from israel :( i'm sad because you don't meet with Poles in your age you will not make new friends because all Jewish trips are like: sorrunded by sad man in dark siuts prabably armed (**** on Polish soil israeli forces:/ it should Polish protection!) quick march to Auschvitz and other places of holocaust, and of course you will se antijewish signs on the walls no talk with ppl no fun it's sick :/ and ppl are asking why Jewish children say that "Poles killed Jews" :cantbeli: but awcourse you are welcome :hug: all of you are woot but STAY AWAY FROM OUR GIRLS ;-)

aeternum

12-06-2003, 07:03 PM

Raketenschule der Luftwaffe / El Paso, USA

The german webpage at Fort Bliss:
http://www.bliss.army.mil/LocalUnitLinks/gafads/sites/startseite.htm

perdurabo

12-06-2003, 07:12 PM

@wholagun

img]http://img-b.flagspot.net/p/pl-afs93.gif[/img

Is this the insigna of the Polnish Air Force? Im curious, since when do they use this one?

It reminds me of the tactical symbol the german wehrmacht used during WWII as indicator of an Army Group
http://www.panzerdiesel.com/data/d/2tbi01.html

you want to be flamed ? :D

Not at all, the similarity just strikes.. and im curious, thats all

this sign has history from midle ages if you see polish military signs all of them look alike White and Red it's our honor, heart and soul but particually this sign is from 1920 or so and it's Polish Airforce recognition sign it's caled chesspole if germans used it prabably they dig it out from medival knights and abused it :( like with hackenkreutz or other symbols :(

wholagun

12-06-2003, 08:01 PM

Is this the insigna of the Polish Air Force? Im curious, since when do they use this one?

http://img-b.flagspot.net/p/pl-afs93.gif

yes its the Polish Air Force Symbol.
Ill give you a time line.

http://img-b.flagspot.net/p/pl-afs18.gif
From 1918-1921

http://img-b.flagspot.net/p/pl-afs21.gif
1921-1993

http://img-b.flagspot.net/p/pl-afs93.gif
1993 - present

http://216.110.156.31/mig29/ip-pol-mig29-cott-00-2.jpg

http://216.110.156.31/mig29/ip-pol-mig29-cott-00.jpg

you want to be flamed ?
I wanted to have the Polish Armed Forces Coat of Arms Eagle but I couldn't find one I could link... so this is what I went with

For your other inquiries into Polish flags and symbols you can use the site i got that symbol from http://flagspot.net/flags/pl.html You can click on the various links.
There even was a proposal for a new flag in Poland in 2001
http://img-b.flagspot.net/p/pl!2001.gif

Claiming that white and red colors are outdated, obsolete and not relevant in present day's reality, Gdansk's artist, Grzegorz Klaman, is proposing a new flag for the Polish III Republic - white and red separated by the black band to symbolise the mourning for high expectations, dreams of better future and bombastic promises of the politicians of various orientations.
The flag was first hoisted in downtown Cracow on March 15th, 2001 during the art exhibition on "Cold War"
Chrystian Kretowicz, 25 Jan 2002
Its kinda hard to make out the white on the bottom but it should be dark red like in my avatar, black, and white.
The flag is also suppose to symbolize distress because of the red on top

Deuterium

12-06-2003, 08:02 PM

Mig 29s look fast just sitting still. Nice pics!

Pille1234

12-06-2003, 08:22 PM

:hug: oh one of those shool trips from israel :( i'm sad because you don't meet with Poles in your age you will not make new friends because all Jewish trips are like: sorrunded by sad man in dark siuts prabably armed

Really? Israeli schoolkids are escorted by armed personal? Only in Poland or everywhere? Living 'as Israeli' must be harder than I thougt. :petting:

wholagun

12-06-2003, 08:28 PM

They obviously dont have enough barracks on their island to host the units still in Germany.. or what is their reason beeing still in Germany...

First off Poland will not be the only country that will (could possibly) house US troops. There US has not offered formally yet but there have been talks just nothing on paper at this point yet. US already does excercises in with Black Hawks and other sea time helis on the Caspean cost. Hungarians and the Czechs are possible locations for US airfields. Although I read that US wants to house an F16 squadran in Poland. There are lots of countries that are vying for US airbases for several reasons mentioned already.

Reasons to put US bases in Poland
1) Its not an Island. You may have been joking or using it as a figure of speech... :) Lets hope so ;)
2) Money
3) Money
and 4) Money and large training fields.

Fist
Germany has rather small military training areas, as well as really stict sound regulations and laws, (I recall someone posting a pic of a Leo 2A6 using a big sound supresser) In Poland the fields are enormous and you don't need to have those sound supresseros because the sound has to travel further then it does in Germany where the bases are really small and close to urban areas.

Seconly
Reason to keep US troops in Germany so long? Its not cheap to relocate thousands of troops. US is planning on reducing troops in Germany some 100 thousand or so. US wants to reduce that number, so not all will be housed in Poland. Also Poland will not get all the proposed US bases if any at all, there are other countries condending for them as well.
Keeping troops in Germany is more expensive then if the troops were in Poland or other central / eastern euro countries. One thing Germany has thats good is infastrcuture, better then Polands. Albeit, Poland is not as advanced as Germany, none the less we do posses enough infastructure for what is needed, as well new stuff in being built by NATO as we speek, including long range radar bases and 3 or 4 airfields.

Thirdly
US army would built thier own barracks, they would not use Polish baracks.

I doubt that the US European central command will move out of Germany.. i think just military bases, for reasons stated above. After 9/11 tactics changed, US needs bases close to the middle east and other areas, no more need to hold huge amounts of troops in a single country.

UoUo

12-07-2003, 05:31 AM

BTW : this year i will visit poland with my school....
:hug: oh one of those shool trips from israel :( i'm sad because you don't meet with Poles in your age you will not make new friends because all Jewish trips are like: sorrunded by sad man in dark siuts prabably armed (f*** on Polish soil israeli forces:/ it should Polish protection!) quick march to Auschvitz and other places of holocaust, and of course you will se antijewish signs on the walls no talk with ppl no fun it's sick :/ and ppl are asking why Jewish children say that "Poles killed Jews" :cantbeli: but awcourse you are welcome :hug: all of you are woot but STAY AWAY FROM OUR GIRLS ;-)

Hey man...are you sure that i won't meet any polish kid ? that sucks.....

Even not in the Hotel ?

BTW : I going to meet large number of anti jewish people there ?

marktigger

12-07-2003, 06:34 AM

UK have been using Polish training areas for the last 10 years at least on the ULHAN Eagle exercises and they like them. Maybe it would be a good idea of us to move to poland to to save the expense of moving everything there. Whoops forgot that would mean that senior officers couldn't nip back to UK for the weekend.
There was a rumour that the US are looking at basing troops in Veitnam to make up for the loss of the Philipines and probably Japan as bases.

aeternum

12-07-2003, 06:39 AM

They obviously dont have enough barracks on their island to host the units still in Germany.. or what is their reason beeing still in Germany...

Reasons to put US bases in Poland
1) Its not an Island. You may have been joking or using it as a figure of speech... :) Lets hope so ;)

Well i talked about the "tommies" (-> british soldiers) as why they still have troops in Germany.

After 9/11 tactics changed, US needs bases close to the middle east and other areas,
Yea and Poland is so much closer to the middle east than germany, right.

UoUo

12-07-2003, 06:41 AM

Base in Isreal whould be great for the Americans...but the the arab world won't accept that.

Herrmannek

12-07-2003, 06:48 AM

BTW : I going to meet large number of anti jewish people there ?

This isn't so simple. There are few kinds of "anti-jewish" here.

-"Nazis", this is small amount of people in total,they are ussualy footbal fans or literal idiots, so if you see guys wearing footbal-fan clothes go to other site of street , they are anti-everything(Jews included :( ) so if they notice you are foreginer and they will be in enough strong group they can bit you or anybody else just for clear plesure without any speciall reason. Don't know how much of them is where you are going so don't know how big is risk of meeting them.

-Normall people disliking:
1)fighting catholic signs(crosses etc.) from death camps.
2)accusing Poles for holocaust.
3)strong jewish involvment in authorities and repression services of communist Poland.
4)killing Jesus( jk :))
This is rather civilised group of people, thoses people ussualy aren't "anti-jewish", but strenght of feelings can vary personally. I'm that kind of person, mainly reasons 1 & 2, it's pure politics for me, but few can't see diference betwen politics and real life so you can hear some bitter worlds, but ussually not more than that. As those feelings rarelly are personalised, if people have doubts they will rather keep it to themselfs or try to straight things in polite manner. Hospitality & Curiosity to foregin culture should prevail antypathy. :)

Welcome :)

UoUo

12-07-2003, 07:18 AM

Ho i see... :)

And another thing...i have a big "David Shield"
some thing like that :
http://cw3.walla.co.il/mall_product_images/auction_rec_product/QFW51.jpg

It going to be problem to wear it >?

Herrmannek

12-07-2003, 07:41 AM

Ho I see :)
http://cw3.walla.co.il/mall_product_images/auction_rec_product/QFW51.jpg

It going to be problem to wear it >?
No
P.S. Don't call us antisemits beacuse we dont like people who calling us that way :) .

perdurabo

12-07-2003, 09:11 AM

Abaut this trip it's very possible yes ive seen few it's so sad view:/ it's normal safe country you will see no more "antisomething ppl" than enywhere else we don't have raging fury groups shooting to everything that moves sometimes afther football matches are big fights with police nothing more there is no big rage yes ppl here are sad even angry because our internalthings but i meet meany foreginers and i don't see them scared they like Poland :) if you will be in Kraków try to see Kazimierz nad Wisłą its Jewish district it has wery specyfic climate :) but also look at Wawel (Kings castle in Kraków) and old city meny turist say that Kraków is like Venice of est but whitout water ;-) at night old city in Kraków is prabably the best place for a date in whole world :P cheap good beer beautifull views specyfic pubs/bar/caffeys/other locals

About that flag it's joke!:) no one here will try to change it! it has history of thousand years (as a knights and kings sign)

wholagun

12-07-2003, 09:25 AM

Yea and Poland is so much closer to the middle east than germany, right

That is why I mentioned other countries including several central and middle eastern countries.

Are Europeans pissed? Cause thats the impression im getting. I mention a possible move and some reasons and now I got people goen hey lets moves this and that and the whole army. I don't undrestand?

aeternum

12-07-2003, 12:49 PM

Dalleer

12-07-2003, 01:20 PM

Not about the move.. not at all. The earlier we get rid of the US troops in Europe the better... the earlier we get independent from US security policy and the earlier we can establish our own security policy..

Goddamit, you're _really_ trying to drive a wedge between the EU and the US now aren't you?

Shouldn't we just try to keep the US as a friend, since as the saying goes "It's better to have lots of friends than enemies".

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not really into Bush's foreign policy either but the US is currently a very powerful ally to many individual European nations and the US has much to offer to various European states in other terms besides military bases in their soils...

Come on, this whole EU crap sucked since day one and keeps on going down the drain...

cut

12-07-2003, 01:41 PM

I disagree, and I think the US is right not to stay in germany and other western European states if they don't want them there. They can stay in the UK for the time being because people don't mind having them there for now. The Eastern European countries want to please the US now that they can, and from what I heard the US was looking to establish a new kind of bases in Europe anyway. The bases that Rumslfeld wants are smaller but have the capacity to hold many more troops when they are needed. It's part of his plan to make the US armed forces smaller and more agile.

aeternum

12-07-2003, 01:49 PM

Shouldn't we just try to keep the US as a friend

A friend, an ally, a partner on the same level - yes of course!
But not under the terms of the USA. Its time that Europe establish their own world agenda and keeps stopping to play the little brother of the US. We are ecomomically strong enuff to achive more than the status quo.

the US has much to offer to various European states in other terms besides military bases

Yes - its dependency. They want to control Europe on the security level. They want them to buy US defense products, they want to lead the way..

tony6

12-07-2003, 03:58 PM

US bases in Poland...
...times really change:)

He219

12-07-2003, 04:05 PM

Its time that Europe establish their own world agenda and keeps stopping to play the little brother of the US. We are ecomomically strong enuff to achive more than the status quo.

:roll:
Don't forget that the US is in Germany because of German ambition. The reason we are still there is because allies stabilized West from East. British, Canadian and US forces have been maneuvering with German troops as a combined NATO force.

You show your true colors. I would rather see allied tax dollars go to host nations that appreciate the economic and cultural benefits of hosting trieaty states. Ramstein will always remain to check any future 'German ambition'.

wholagun

12-07-2003, 04:20 PM

Are Europeans pissed?

Not about the move.. not at all. The earlier we get rid of the US troops in Europe the better... the earlier we get independent from US security policy and the earlier we can establish our own security policy..

If you don't mind me asking Im curious where are you from?

The earlier we get rid of US troops the better. Id have to agree with Daller
"It's better to have lots of friends than enemies". So true. Look at the JSF project, thats an example that Europe should use as a model for further military cooperation with the US.

I would also like to see a European military incitative in the EU but they have to discuss it amongst all EU countries present and futur so there is no half effort, but a full effort so things run smoothly. Having half the EU for the EU defense and the rest against and outside the EU defense force is what leads to EU inefficency and problems down the road.

I see you live in the EU, that means your country was able to develop thanks to the US. Well we didn't have the same oppurtunity, unfortunetly we took the brunt of the sword for you guys in the Western Europe. Now US helping us militaryly is a huge benifit for us economically and security wise, not only for us but for the whole EU, stronger Poland stronger EU and NATO. These are the same benifits you guys been enjoying for the last 50 years. We weren't.

Having US troops leave Europe may be good for you guys already with a good economy and strong military, but us we're still developing and building our army. By having the US in there we feel safer, something which you guys felt longer then us Poles.

There is no problem with US having bases on our soil, we can still be a partner in the EU and have US troops in Central and Eastern Europe. This will not cause any problems since the bases will be smaller and fewer in number.

wholagun

12-07-2003, 04:26 PM

Its time that Europe establish their own world agenda and keeps stopping to play the little brother of the US

European states can't even agree on a constitution, we can't go into defense just yet, we have political problems to solve before we can start to think about military force.

Sorry but Britian, France, Germany and Belgium does not make it European. It makes the force solely composed of European nations with a European orientation but not European until most if not all EU states enter and agree on the force. Please don't say that it does make it European force cause those countries despite thier wishes to speak for all Europeans do not, despite how much I like Germans ( Im 1/4 German if you care) and the French, they don't speak for the EU.

Dalleer

12-07-2003, 10:32 PM

Yes, the problem indeed is that you can't form a 100 % every EU memberstate contributing "Euro military force" since there are alot of countires currently in the EU not willing to participate on a project such as this.

Now, we don't see Kentucky not agreeing to send in their boys to Iraq or Wisconsin disagreeing on giving it's soil to the use of other states' troops...

You know why?

Because this whole crap of "United states of Europe" doesn't work here, unlike it does back in the US.

We are just too different in the cultural sense here in Europe, trying to make us play a "European union" is going to be a much bigger of a problem than anything else right now.

I recent the idea of Europe being forcefully transformed into a "one nation" , since the day when we start playing the big boys, is the day we'll have a war against the most unpredictable enemy.

Eventually that enemy could just as well be the US.

cut

12-07-2003, 10:41 PM

He219

12-08-2003, 04:15 AM

You show your true colors. I would rather see allied tax dollars go to host nations that appreciate the economic and cultural benefits of hosting trieaty states. Ramstein will always remain to check any future 'German ambition'.

'German ambiton'? that sounds very offencive and I'm not even German. Why germany more than any other country.

Would you appreciate the economic and cultural benefits of hosting European armies in the US?

It certainly was not American Colonial Ambition that plunged the world into Two Global Wars followed by a 50 year long Cold War. Aeternum also called for the 'Tommies' out, thus eliminating British Colonialism.

German colonial ambitions are evident throughout the Indo-Pacific (Mariana Islands including the Bismark Sea and Kwajalein, The Marshall Islands, Samoa, Togo, Tsintau (Kiautschou) and Neu-Guinea. It also posessed the colonies of Kamerun and Togoland along with German East and Southwest Africa. The concept of 'lebensraum' personifies latter ambitions. Competition with other Colonial Powers set the stage for the political climate we find ourselves in today.

Economic and cultural benefits certainly were symbiotic throghout the Cold War, that is undeniable.

aeternum wrote:

Yes - its dependency. They want to control Europe on the security level. They want them to buy US defense products, they want to lead the way

So how did it get that way, cut? Ask our Polish friends about control....
:roll: