Osprey..

[California Joe]

Any of you Marines flown on one? I've never heard such conflicting reports on a piece of equipment/platform/ aircraft as I have this one. It's either a death trap or the answer to all the Marines prayers for entering a hot LZ. It's cost is staggering and I'm not sure it's worth it.....Thoughts?

[Ratamacue]

What I heard is that most of the crashes have been caused by pilot error. Apparently there are some issues in the transition from helo to plane. It seems that most of the crashes have happened in that situation.

I'm not an expert on the situation though, so I'd like to hear some opinions from people who know more or have real experience.

[GazB]

Pilot error because the aircraft just shouldn't fly.

[96B]

At one point in time they were having hydraulic issues with the transition from hover to a forward motion. I cant imagine what pilot error could be occuring being that millions are spent training each and every pilot. I believe that in some instances you may find pilot error but the vast majority will be some sort of mechanical issue. So much money has been invested in the program thus far especially by the USMC that I doubt they will give it up if there is still a shred of hope. Theoretically, the concept is excellent for the USMC mission but its just a matter of making it a totally safe and stable platform.

[StarvingStudent47]

What I heard is that most of the crashes have been caused by pilot error. Apparently there are some issues in the transition from helo to plane. It seems that most of the crashes have happened in that situation.

I'm not an expert on the situation though, so I'd like to hear some opinions from people who know more or have real experience.

That's odd, I heard that the vast majority of crashes were caused by hydraulic malfunction when the engines were rotating to vertical and back.

Like the others here, though, I don't have first-hand experience.

[Seoulstriker]

http://verticalreference.com/vertical_reference_videos.htm

go to the osprey video. it's mechanical error.

[Seoulstriker]

well, the osprey isn't having problems anymore (so far):

http://www.helis.com/news/2002/v22exc.htm


Wednesday May 29, 2002

MV-22 Resumes Flying, Exceeds Expectations
PATUXENT RIVER, Md, USA ( US Naval Air systems Command Press Release ) - The MV-22 Osprey took to the skies May 29 here for the first time after being grounded for over 17 months following the tragic Dec. 11, 2000 mishap. The first MV-22 test aircraft to resume flying has improvements in its hydraulic and flight control software systems that make it practically a brand new aircraft and the safest Osprey yet, according to V-22 program officials.



"The long awaited return to flight was a success. The Osprey not only performed what today's test plan called for but exceeded our wildest expectations," said Col Dan Schultz, V-22 program manager. Today's flight plan called for the aircraft to take off, hover, and land. After successfully completing several vertical takeoffs, landings, and hovering maneuvers over the runway, the pilots conducted rearward and sideward flights to check the aircraft's maneuverability in helicopter mode. The pilots gradually built up maneuver speeds up and down the runway, went into landing pattern circuits and began conversion work. Later in the afternoon, the Osprey's encore performance included a full conversion to airplane mode at level flight speeds of 250 knots. The Osprey logged nearly two and one half hours of flight time today and returned in full up flight status.


Tom MacDonald and Bill Leonard, senior Bell Boeing V-22 Integrated Test Team pilots, who have a combined total of 13,000 flight hours in both fixed and rotary wing aircraft and over 500 hours each in the MV-22, took the aircraft through a series of maneuvers to evaluate its handling and performance. Part of this series included converting out from helicopter to airplane mode to take standard vibration measurements to check out the tracking and balance of the individual blades of the two proprotors. This "test card" for the first flight series follows the Osprey's methodical and event driven approach to safely return the aircraft to flight testing.


"Along with everyone else on the V-22 test team, we are excited about being back in the flight test business. We are proud of the extensive safety and reliability enhancements to the Osprey's design, which was made possible by the concerted efforts of many people throughout the NAVAIR, Bell Boeing, Rolls Royce and supporting contractor teams," asserted MacDonald.


Leonard shares the excitement of being back in the air and moving forward with flight testing. "I'm dedicated to the concept and believe tilt rotor technology will be as important to aviation as the advent of the jet engine. This aircraft has potential that we in the aviation community have yet to understand let alone exploit. I've been actively engaged in military and civilian aviation for over 35 years, flown well over 100 different aircraft and truly believe that this technology, if exploited properly, will impact both civil and military aviation to an incredible degree," he said.


In preparation for today's flight, several days of aircraft ground runs and a systems checkout were conducted so both pilots would have further opportunity to re-acquaint themselves with the V-22 cockpit prior to the actual flight. "To ensure that no stone has been left unturned in our pursuit of safety and excellence, the entire process was structured and viewed by the V-22 Integrated Test Team as a true first flight, almost as if the aircraft had never flown before and was making its maiden flight," said MacDonald.


As part of the training for this flight, Macdonald and Leonard had a dress rehearsal simulation at the Manned Flight Simulator which allowed them to practice the first flight following the actual test cards and procedures developed for it with the telemetry room engineering team directing the flight and monitoring the progress and instrumentation in the control room.


Today's flight marks the beginning of an 18-month developmental flight test plan here that will validate the engineering and design changes made to the aircraft and continue with developmental testing that will further test such areas as vortex ring state boundaries, dynamic shipboard compatibility, formation flying, and low speed hovering and landing conditions. Other areas to be tested include the aircraft's icing, cargo handling and radar warning systems. A total of 1800 flight test hours are scheduled over this period of time using seven MV-22 aircraft.

[Ratamacue]

I don't know about the other services, but the Marines have dedicated too much in time, money, and men to let this project die out. Once the quirks are worked out, it could very well be the most effective and revolutionary helo in the world.

[cut]

I don't know about the other services, but the Marines have dedicated too much in time, money, and men to let this project die out. Once the quirks are worked out, it could very well be the most effective and revolutionary helo in the world.

or just the first widely used hybrid

[earl]

It was a while ago that I read about it, but I thought some of the problems were due to vortex ring state, and is partly pilot error. The way I understood it is in helicopter mode, maybe because the rotors are smaller and doing more work than a standard helicopter rotor, it creates an envelope of air that begins to cycle around the rotors. The air begins to move down through the rotors faster and faster to the point where its flowing down so fast that the rotors are no longer getting effective lift.

Ok, looked it up because I obviously don't have a good grasp of it. It sounds like the problem is due to the dual rotor configuration... vortex ring state isn't so bad in itself, but its possible to have one rotor in VRS and one out, so one side of the V22 has much greater lift, causing the pilot to lose control. It happens if the pilot descends too quickly, so there's the pilot error part.

http://198.65.138.161/military/systems/aircraft/v-22-vrs.htm

[Seoulstriker]

Ok, looked it up because I obviously don't have a good grasp of it... it sounds like the problem is due to the dual rotor configuration... vortex ring state isn't so bad in itself, but its possible to have one rotor in VRS and one out, so one side of the V22 has much greater lift, causing the pilot to lose control...

http://198.65.138.161/military/systems/aircraft/v-22-vrs.htm

that's what the video i posted above seems to show. apparently they have new control computers which counteract this.

[96B]

Any new design though is bound to be very dangerous. Just take a look at the original AV-8A Harrier and it was not until later that the reliability and stability came. Still though, it is a very tough and dangerous aircraft to fly. I've talked to Marine pilots who say its like standing the aircraft on the tip of a needle when hovering.

[California Joe]

You're right. I've also heard horror stories about design flaws in the Harrier.

[Durandal]

I don't know about the other services, but the Marines have dedicated too much in time, money, and men to let this project die out. Once the quirks are worked out, it could very well be the most effective and revolutionary helo in the world.

Hey, do not forget about the Defense Contractor...the money is in the civilian version. I still have not heard anyone question this, but oh well. Time will tell.