The Baltic armies, what are they?

[Dalleer]

For a while now, I've been trying to dig up information on the Baltic states' individual armies/militaries etc.

Specifically the Estonian military interests me, now perhaps someone from the board could enlighten me on their equipment/possible conscription/ military branches/ etc. ?

And what kinds of tanks (armored vehicles) do the Estonians have at the point?

The Estonian military is a complete mystery to me, I've only managed to see a few pictures of Latvian and Estonian troops on a possibly NATO sponsored exercise.

[Seraphim]

Is Finland looking to invade?

[Dalleer]

Yes, we need to test our new Leopard 2's in Estonia and later on build a huge Sauna to Lithuania.

[spectre5]

Bwahahahah hilariuos :D

[Haiw]

Baltic armies are an illusion...they're just Russian training grounds ;)

[tony6]

Daller:
Estonia:
male population (at the age 18-32): 0,16 million
Military budget (2003): 158 mln $
Army: 5510 officers&soldiers (in case of conflict 24000 after mobilisation)

Land forces: 2550 soldiers (including 1030 draft soldiers)
5 infanry batallions
1 artillery division
1 recon batallion
1 UN ESTBAT batallion
1 representative batallion
equipment:
7 BRDM-2
25 BTR-60/70/80
19 105 mm howitzers M-61-37
44 81 mm mortars
14 120 mm mortars 2S11
11 MAPATS 7 & RB-56 Bill guided anti-tank missiles
200 82mm B-300 (bazookas?)
109 Carl Gustaw (RPGs)
100 PV-1110 & 30 M40A1
about 100 ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft cannons
Galil combat rifles

[tony6]

Navy:
440 soldiers (230 drafted)
divers group (miners)
equipment:
1 corvette (Bysketteren class)
2 patrol ships (Rihtiniemi class)
2 mine destroyers (Lindau class)
3 trawling ships (type 394)
2 patrols boats

Air Forces:
220 soldiers (50 drafted)
2 AN-2
1 PZL-104 Wilga
4 Robinson R-44

plus:
border guard (2600)
20 navy units
2 L-410 Turbolet
5 Mi-8
and teritorial units (Kaitsellit-Defence League) (8500)

[fred_engles]

I can't really claim to know alot about this topic (there's frankly not much to know - all three countries have tiny little militaries, since they're only likely foe would be russia, and there they don't have a chance anyway).

Once interesting thing I do know is that the three baltic nations do have close military cooperation with each other, including a joint baltic battalion (http://www.mil.ee/index_eng.php?s=baltbat), as well as a baltic naval squadron (http://www.mil.ee/index_eng.php?s=baltron). Further,all three countries are to join NATO in May 2004 (and the EU around the same time).

On a side note, is there anything funnier than official NATO chrismas e-cards (http://nato.greetingsforyou.net/)?

[Dalleer]

This info is just what I've been looking, thanks.


But I still don't see any tanks for Estonia?

Maybe they could buy our older T72's for....I don't know, training or something?

[tony6]

There was a big article about Balts armies in Polish magazine "military technics" lately-I copied some data from it:)
As for tanks-only Lotwa (Latvia?) have 3 old T-55 tanks (used for training)
Generally-Balts weapons is a real mixture of soviet/scandinavian equipemnt (also Finish).
As for cooperation between those 3 states, they share a lot of defense units/projects:
BALTBAT-rapid reaction batallion
BALTNET-air traffic control system
BALTRON-navy squadron
BALTDEFCOL-Baltic Defense Academy (found in 1998) in Tartu (Estonia)
NORBALTPERS-nordic-balts project (united system of militsary stuff manegment)
BALTCCIS-baltic command and battle zone information system (cooperation with Germany)

[Dalleer]

Okay then, this really seems interesting.

I checked some of the photos on the Estonian defence forces website and I have to agree that the equipment was pretty mixed up (I spotted Swedish, British, American, etc. gear on these guys)

Not to mention, that some of them had older Swedish M/59 (green) jackets, American helmet covers and I spotted this one guy wearing this weird US Woodland variation jacket with a British DPM fragmention vest on top of it all.

They kinda look like me when I started airsoftin'

[tony6]

Yeah-most of their equipment was donated by USA, Germany and Scandinavian countries.
Poland also provided them with some equipment.

[Bulkowski]

I love those areas, Poland, Czech Republic, Estonia... bootyful womens :D

[tony6]

You're damn right, man!
:)

[cut]

hmmmmmmm :|

[Deuterium]

I love those areas, Poland, Czech Republic, Estonia... bootyful womens :D

Don't forget Latvia......Ummmmmm Riga......Talk about bootyful women.

[Ian H]

Don't forget these militaries have only been in existence for like 12 years or so, I think they've done pretty well to build up from scratch and westernise given they are all Former Soviet Republics. Anyone know what conditions of life in general are like in the three countries?

[Dalleer]

Anyone know what conditions of life in general are like in the three countries?

I don't know too much, but I'd think that Estonia has things working the best way from these three, economically and militarily.

[Marmot1]

daller check here pick country and you will have info about the armies but without info on equipment....
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/en.html

[Dalleer]

daller check here pick country and you will have info about the armies but without info on equipment....

Thanks, I'll check it out ASAP.

[fantassin]

The Galils are less and less used and the AKs are back if I am to believe an Estonian officer I met recently during an Peace Support Operation exercise.

[mustamato]

Don't forget these militaries have only been in existence for like 12 years or so, I think they've done pretty well to build up from scratch and westernise given they are all Former Soviet Republics. Anyone know what conditions of life in general are like in the three countries?

As I understand it their neighbouring countries are they who have been helping them with it, donating equipment, and more importantly, training the officers. Below is just an example of the type of help that has been given to them.

"Finland has helped Estonia to establish a field artillery arm to its defence forces, and as Estonia does not yet have a suitable firing range, the rounds of field howitzer shelling have been fired in Finland. The Estonian field artillery has largely been built on Finnish expertise and equipment. In 1997 Finland donated equipment for an Estonian artillery battery: 19 field guns and the necessary fire control and communications gear. Finland has also helped with training and expertise in establishing this branch of the Estonian military."


Estonian field artillery units practising at the Pahkajärvi firing-range in south-eastern Finland under the watchful eyes of Finnish officers.

Caliber: 105 mm
Range: 13 km
Firing rate: 6 rds/min
Weight: 2000 kg
Weight of grenade: 15 kg
Country of origin: Finland
History: Approved for service in FDF 1937, served well during the
second world war, modernized in the 60´s. Used up until recently
in the coastalbrigade and in the local defence artillery units. Today
120 mm mortars are used instead.

[HEAT 751]

www.mil.ee

[CouchCommando]

Wonder what happened to haiw et al...

[one-niner]

... all three countries have tiny little militaries, since they're only likely foe would be russia, and there they don't have a chance anyway.
Great insight :roll:

My knowledge of the Baltic armies, the Lithuanian one in particular, date back 5 - 8 years so a lot have probably changed. IIRC, Lithuania had three army brigades, all set up for territorial defense (one area each). The Iron Wolf brigade, which was transitioning into a Mechanized Infantry Brigade, experimented with different approaches to organization and procedures and were to be copied by the others as the three brigades varied quite a bit (like small kingdoms).

Lithuania probably had the most committed approach to modernization at the time, for instanse buying a load of used, but thoroughly renovated, M113s and even turning down some equipment offers to limit the "diversity". They were also among the first Javelin customers(!).

As for tanks, they didn't have any, and to be honest I think they should spend their limited budget on other stuff. That said, they've had thoughts on how to implement tanks if they were to acquire some, or in case they got a NATO tank unit attached.

[tommy00]

Wow, really old thread back to life....
There's a threads for all Baltic armys in Pic and Video.....

[one-niner]

Wow, really old thread back to life....
Dang! Hadn't seen that.

[lightfire]

Wow, really old thread back to life....
There's a threads for all Baltic armys in Pic and Video.....


exactly:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?5075-Estonian-Defence-Forces-in-pictures&highlight=Estonian
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?59598-Lithuanian-defence-forces
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?59493-Latvian-defence-forces

But since the search function is somewhat raped (I had to use google to find these threads instead of MP.net search - crazy..), it's no biggy

[HEAT 751]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6CFHev_RwY

[kalkun]

Dude, you already posted that in EDF thread. What's the obsession with it?
Let this thread from 2003 have it's rest.