Canadians too patriotic, Americans say in study

[EvanL]

Jack Aubry
CanWest News Service


Monday, December 08, 2003





OTTAWA - Canadians should be careful not to appear "boastful" to Americans, who are insecure because of the war in Iraq and admit they are annoyed by northerners showing off the maple leaf on their luggage when they travel, a federal report says.

In focus groups held this fall in four U.S. cities where the federal government is opening consulates, Americans acknowledged they do not know much about Canadians. Many did not know Canada did not support the United States in the war in Iraq.

"Some participants expressed a certain amount of annoyance at what is perceived as a systematic attempt by Canadians to make the statement that they are not Americans by sporting the maple leaf," said the recently released report.

"This underscores the American sensitivity at feeling rejected by the rest of the world ..."

The report says even Americans who blame the Bush administration to some extent for their country's poor relations with the world do not seem to understand why friendly countries and neighbours such as Canada would want to distance themselves from Americans. An American from San Diego is quoted saying: "What bugs me about Canadians, if I may, is that they wear that damn patch on their bags, the Canadian flag patch. That way, they differentiate themselves from us."

Canadians are "very patriotic," freely acknowledging they are from Canada while abroad, observed a respondent from Raleigh, N.C. "Americans will tend to not even want to tell people because they think they'll get bad vibes from them," he added.

The report is based on eight focus groups conducted in September by Millward Brown Goldfarb in San Diego, Raleigh, Denver and Houston where Canadian consulates are in the process of opening.

Pierre Bechard, a spokesman for Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada, said Millward Brown Goldfarb was paid $49,543 for the October report and focus groups.

He said the findings will act as a baseline for the consulates to work to understand how much Americans understand about Canada and how they feel about their relationship with their northern neighbour.

From the findings, federal employees opening the consulates will have their work cut out for them. Most participants said they were "shocked" by a fact sheet about Canada that they were given during the focus groups.

"A few express some concern over the U.S.'s implied dependence on Canada for energy ... However, Canada should be careful not to appear 'boastful,' which could backfire, as Americans do not like to be reminded of any kind of dependence on another country," the report warns.

It says while there is some resentment over Canada's refusal to join the Americans in the war with Iraq, it is currently tempered by "a feeling of uncertainty as to whether the war should have been waged at all.

"Also, unlike France, which is viewed as having forcefully opposed the States, Canada is viewed more as having stayed on sidelines."

© National Post 2003

[stateofequilibrium]

Why is Canada still a country? rofl

[hedgehog]

That's too funny! What's next, are they going to be threatened by our oh so powerful army? I hardly think that Canada has a higher sense of Nationalism than the States considering that all the immigrants can keep their original citizenship. Around Toronto you probably see more Italien flags than Canadian ones! :lol:

"This underscores the American sensitivity at feeling rejected by the rest of the world ..."

Hmm.. wasn't it the other way around? I really want to know who the hell they interviewed... what 4 US cities....

[Roger Rabbit]

I see lots of Americans sporting US flags in all sorts of places. People in general need to be careful with the whole patriotism issue. Its one thing to be patriotic, its another to rub it in everyone elses faces.

[NcDeuce]

I see lots of Americans sporting US flags in all sorts of places. People in general need to be careful with the whole patriotism issue. Its one thing to be patriotic, its another to rub it in everyone elses faces.

Unless they're affiliated with al-Qaeda. p-)

[Smintjes]

OTTAWA - Canadians should be careful not to appear "boastful" to Americans, who are insecure because of the war in Iraq and admit they are annoyed by northerners showing off the maple leaf on their luggage when they travel, a federal report says.



So it's ok for Americans to shove their flag in everybody's face all of the time, but other countries can't do it? Ridiculous.

[Trigger]

So it's ok for Americans to shove their flag in everybody's face all of the time, but other countries can't do it? Ridiculous.
I wasn't aware that a simple display of one's national flag was considered 'shoving it in people's face'....bunch of whiners. :slap:

[Andyman]

My old History teacher did an exchange program while he was in university and it involved him travelling through the Balkans and in the middle east mostly (Israel and Palestine) and then finishing India. Anyways he was telling me that this one time in Jordan he was walking down the street and there were these Americans who had been beaten to **** cause they were wearing the flags on their back packs, and the same attackers came up to my teacher and were about to ruff him up cause they thought he was American but when he was thrown on his stomach the attackers saw his Canadian patch on his bag and apologetically picked up the teacher and sent him on his way. He was like thank god for patriotism! :cantbeli:

I also hear that if yah go to Holland and you let people know that you're Canadian they just love yah too death. I waana try it, maybe play mud wrestling with some beautiful dutch girls eh p-)

[EvanL]

My old History teacher did an exchange program while he was in university and it involved him travelling through the Balkans and in the middle east mostly (Israel and Palestine) and then finishing India. Anyways he was telling me that this one time in Jordan he was walking down the street and there were these Americans who had been beaten to **** cause they were wearing the flags on their back packs, and the same attackers came up to my teacher and were about to ruff him up cause they thought he was American but when he was thrown on his stomach the attackers saw his Canadian patch on his bag and apologetically picked up the teacher and sent him on his way. He was like thank god for patriotism! :cantbeli:

I also hear that if yah go to Holland and you let people know that you're Canadian they just love yah too death. I waana try it, maybe play mud wrestling with some beautiful dutch girls eh p-)
I lived in the west indies for over 3 years and i have seen many americans who were trying to pass themselves off as Canadians because they believed they would get treated differently. Especially in places like asia, americans would rather not be blatantly displaying their patriotism because as much as they would wish otherwise, being the worlds super power doesnt make you the worlds best friend.

[Jack Mehoff]

My old History teacher did an exchange program while he was in university and it involved him travelling through the Balkans and in the middle east mostly (Israel and Palestine) and then finishing India. Anyways he was telling me that this one time in Jordan he was walking down the street and there were these Americans who had been beaten to **** cause they were wearing the flags on their back packs, and the same attackers came up to my teacher and were about to ruff him up cause they thought he was American but when he was thrown on his stomach the attackers saw his Canadian patch on his bag and apologetically picked up the teacher and sent him on his way. He was like thank god for patriotism! :cantbeli:

I also hear that if yah go to Holland and you let people know that you're Canadian they just love yah too death. I waana try it, maybe play mud wrestling with some beautiful dutch girls eh p-)
I lived in the west indies for over 3 years and i have seen many americans who were trying to pass themselves off as Canadians because they believed they would get treated differently. Especially in places like asia, americans would rather not be blatantly displaying their patriotism because as much as they would wish otherwise, being the worlds super power doesnt make you the worlds best friend.

I visited Vietnam, Brazil, Japan, South Korea and the girls there LOVE american men and nobody ever give me **** even when i have a small american flag on my backpack. What really amazes me is some of my ugly ass Mormon friends married beautiful asian girls during their LDS missions in Asia :|

[richardben23]

The Americans State Department once said on CNN that if Americans get threatened overseas say your Canadian.

[Jack Mehoff]

umm....why Canadian? Why not Aussie, Brits or Kiwis? I don't see the difference

[duck]

Just say you're Klingon. The Trekkies are everywhere.

[Pille1234]

Thats what I say: the whole world loves Canadians ;)

[Minjin]

No such thing as too patriotic. It only becomes "problematic" when it includes an inordinate degree of arrogance and attitude. Wear your flags, people!!

[[AFSOC]]

umm....why Canadian? Why not Aussie, Brits or Kiwis? I don't see the difference

Do americans have have Aussie accents?? BRITISH??? Kiwis???

DUH!!!

[EvanL]

umm....why Canadian? Why not Aussie, Brits or Kiwis? I don't see the difference

Do americans have have Aussie accents?? BRITISH??? Kiwis???

DUH!!!
They dont have Canadian accents either man. You ever heard a newfy or any other maritimer for that matter? they sure as hell dont sound anything like an american. More like an irishman or a scotsman.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

"Some participants expressed a certain amount of annoyance at what is perceived as a systematic attempt by Canadians to make the statement that they are not Americans by sporting the maple leaf,"

Hmmm We are Canadians therefor we wear our flag. I mean, what do they want us to wear American flags n get beat-up everywere? ;)
I personally dont think Canadians are patriotic enough, we all could use a good dose of Canadian pride here or there.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Patriotism blows, I really can't stand people wanking on about what ever their nationality is - basically I think people have serious issues if they have a massive hard on for the place that they live.

I don't give a turd if some one derides Australia, big whoop.

Now invading our country, that's another thing (grins at Indonesia, "bring it on biatch").

[wholagun]

After 9/11 there wasn't a neighbourhood shown on tv where you couldn't see at least 6 flags in the windows or somewhere else in the front yard. And they say we show our flag too much. Some Americans just don't like the fact that Canada is a soverign country, they expect us to click our heels raise our right hands and solute to every order by the US. Ain't gonna happen. On the back of my univeristy jacket I got a BIG Canadian flag in the centre and then small Polish, German, and Ontario flag. Thats right representing

[Haiw]

Errm....USA people...calling...Canadians...too patriotic?!

Pot. Kettle. Black. In that order :lol:

[Roger Rabbit]

eye splinter eye log

[Jack Mehoff]

umm....why Canadian? Why not Aussie, Brits or Kiwis? I don't see the difference

Do americans have have Aussie accents?? BRITISH??? Kiwis???

DUH!!!


and americans have canuck's accent?

You are just so damn brilliant

[Ratamacue]

Nope, Canucks have American accents. :lol:

[IDFM203]

"Some participants expressed a certain amount of annoyance at what is perceived as a systematic attempt by Canadians to make the statement that they are not Americans by sporting the maple leaf,"

I personally dont think Canadians are patriotic enough, we all could use a good dose of Canadian pride here or there. I think your a 100 percent right and Canadians should have pride........I have to say though that I agree somewhat with the statement that you responded to. the problem I see is that every Canadian I meet when asked what is a Canadian the first answer I hear is "there we are not American" or things of that nature... yeah have pride and do it by talking about Canada and what it stands for BUT my perception is that most of your pride is simply saying your not American and trying to point out differences. Most of it comes out to be showing your pride by putting the U.S. down. And that’s negative and wrong!!

If I am wrong and that Canadians dont do that, then please by all means correct me, its just as of now from a lot that I have met, that’s the perception I got.

Also I will ask you what is exactly a Canadian??? Do you have a distinct culture?? Do you have distinct values??? Or a distinct military, or a distinct economy?? etc… I mean now that I brought it up, how are you different then Americans???

Shalom :D

[Seraphim]

Canada...The 51st state.

[wholagun]

I think your a 100 percent right and Canadians should have pride........I have to say though that I agree somewhat with the statement that you responded to. the problem I see is that every Canadian I meet when asked what is a Canadian the first answer I hear is "there we are not American" or things of that nature... yeah have pride and do it by talking about Canada and what it stands for BUT my perception is that most of your pride is simply saying your not American and trying to point out differences. Most of it comes out to be showing your pride by putting the U.S. down. And that’s negative and wrong!!


You bring up good points. I'll give you one example, when my folks went to Poland in Oct of last year and visited relatives the young kids of the relatives were all like.. "oh its uncle and aunt Rygielski from America" my folks didn't care, but I was pissed when they told me back in Canada what had happened. We make the distinction because most people are ignoratant and assume that Canadians are the same as Americans and that can piss the **** of the us. The Austrians and Swiss have the same problem being called German. I got in **** when I was talking to one Austrian and said oh I speak German too. Did he ever get pissed "WE DON'T SPEAK GERMAN, WE ARE NOT GERMAN, WE HAVE OUR OWN LANGUAGE AUTSTRIAN" I was not ready for that but I understood cause it the same for us with the Yanks. If we don't point out that we're Canadian and point it out again and again people will assume we're American its hard to tell us apart very simular but yet small difference that makes us really differnt (hard to explain, you can only really understand if you live here, hard to foreigners to grasp what we face)
US believe it or not is a threat to our identy in the international area, we have to defend every last bit of Canadiana.


Also I will ask you what is exactly a Canadian??? Do you have a distinct culture?? Do you have distinct values??? Or a distinct military, or a distinct economy?? etc… I mean now that I brought it up, how are you different then Americans???

That is hard to answer. Ill do it really fast and hit on only a few points.
1) We have alot of imigrants so its hard to get one unique culture. However given the fact that we have so many immigrants we do not have a melting pot - in the US your American first then whatever you wanna be. In Canada you can be say Chinese Canadaian, French Canadian, Polish Canadian as me etc. You can be what you wanna be, your not forced to be totally Canadaian.
2) Much more British roots prevalent in our entire system of governing. Military based on British System. Courts based on British system, in US you have "People vs. Joe Smith, In Canada its "Regina/Rex vs Joe Smith".
King and Queens are big here, on our coins and money.
3) Free health care.
4) Less agressive
5) Greater appreciation for the Cold then then US
6) we call it pop not soda
7) we say eh, they say howdy and ya-all
But most of the pride and identy comes from unique probelms and certain identies here in Canada Quebec is always btiching and wanting to seperate (although not as this moment) we have Newfies with strong accents like Scottish/British/Irish (we can't understand them), and US has Texans with accents. Also a big problem is Canada hates Ontario b/c they think we're arrogant here in Ontario.

See anyone who looks from the outside in woun't understand that we are unique in our own way from the US, you have to live here to get it and appreciate our own unique identy. Don't get me wrong we are the same in alot of ways, same TV shows, food, music, clothing, but differ on values and are more socalist then US. I hope that helps IDF. Any Canadian will tell ya its a hard question to answer if even possible to answer.

[wholagun]

Canada...The 51st state.

I can tell your not Canadian. Cause its the 52nd State. Only Americans don't know that Porto Rico is the 51st. Canadians are well awre of that little know fact. ;)

[Jack Mehoff]

Puerto Rico is more like a commonwealth territory. I hope you are being sarcastic.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Yup its definately a hard one to answer for sure. No, we dont put down Americans to make ourselves seem different. Actually you can find alot of that in America which they are quick to make fun of Canadians or blame things on Canada (i.e. the big power outage in the New York area, they blamed it on Canada instantly...not trying to start a flame war because i know most people on this forum live for those) We are different in many ways. Almost too many ways to list.

[wholagun]

Puerto Rico is more like a commonwealth territory. I hope you are being sarcastic.

I know that its a seperate entity from the US but the point I was trying to make was that we can't be the 51st cause thats already Puerto Rico thus Canada is 52nd. (common mistake among Americans to think that we are the 51st, but thats already taken)

[hahaha]

I'm proud of being....... ****, what am I ??

[Pille1234]

The Austrians and Swiss have the same problem being called German. I got in **** when I was talking to one Austrian and said oh I speak German too. Did he ever get pissed "WE DON'T SPEAK GERMAN, WE ARE NOT GERMAN, WE HAVE OUR OWN LANGUAGE AUTSTRIAN"

That austrian guy seems to have serious problems with himself. In fact there's no such thing as an austrian language, they simply speak german. No us person would allege to speak american but english. Although he is an austrian he still speaks german. I never realized that could be a problem for someone...

[Saint]

Test

[SFontaine]

THE STEPS TO BEING A PROUD CANADIAN NATIONALIST (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=3212)

[Whistler]

OMG. I'm Canadian, and I don't think I've ever agreed with an article as much as that last one posted.

I can't stand how the definition of "Canadian" in this country always amounts to "not American". Too most Canadians, you can't be patriotic without being Anti-American.

Personally, I think that its perfectly possible to love Canada and think that the Americans are great friends.

[EvanL]

OMG. I'm Canadian, and I don't think I've ever agreed with an article as much as that last one posted.

I can't stand how the definition of "Canadian" in this country always amounts to "not American". Too most Canadians, you can't be patriotic without being Anti-American.

Personally, I think that its perfectly possible to love Canada and think that the Americans are great friends.
Thats retarded man, im a big ****ing patriotic Canadian and i am nowhere near being anti-american.

[Whistler]

Good... you are like me then.

What I'm complaining about is all these people that think they are being "patriotic" Canadians by bashing the US all the time. There are many people who think and act like that... I talk to them every day.

[EvanL]

Good... you are like me then.

What I'm complaining about is all these people that think they are being "patriotic" Canadians by bashing the US all the time. There are many people who think and act like that... I talk to them every day.
i know what you mean man.

[Andyman]

Canada is a very young nation I mean we have only been totally autonomous from the UK since 1982. Considering that our history has been largely overshadowed as we get pushed under the rug by British Representatives who had never even been in Canada. I mean look at the Alaskan Boundary Dispute, Vimy Ridge, Canadian contribution to both World Wars. We unlike many other nations have only had about 100 years to really build an identity. Of course we are influenced by our sountern neighbour (notice the "U"). But we have been able to create somer aspects in our society that do in all aspects of the word make us unique. We have an individual seat on Global issues and the UN, and we have certain cultural characterisitcs like "EH" Hockey and Beer etc. that distinguish us. No we are not hockey watching beer bellied eskimos. I do feel though, that due to the extremity of American Influence that is so placed upon the world, Canada has meekly accepted that our role on Global issues is and probably never will be comparable to that of our American counterparts. Therefore we may not seem like we are different but its not like the entire world really has an amazing chance to discover the difference, for it lies in Canada alone and not everyone can just up and move here just to find out. Peace Out I have Soccer now!

[Seiyuuki]

I like hockey.

[army cadet_ngcsu]

As an extremely patriotic American, I still do not understand how the Canadians have gotten to be so anti American. I mean having different opinions is one thing, but boonig our national anthem at basketball and hockey games is another. I also remember a couple incidents some months ago when some spokeswoman for the government commented about how she hated Bush and how she hated Americans. I personnaly have been to Canada and like Canadians, I mean you guys produce some of the world's funniest people (Mike Myers, Jim Carrey, Lorne Micheals, etc.) How can we hate you?

One question I do have is that I have had a Canadian friend tell me that most of the Canadians that live in the west are very pro American, where as most towards the east (particuairly the French) are very anti American, is this true?

[SFontaine]

Most Canadians here in the West just fall in with the "USA SUCKS BOO" crowd. The only Pro-Americans I know here is one dude from Vancouver, a friend of mine who's from Argentina and my friend whos brother is very Pro-American. That's bout it. The rest are like "USA SUCKS OH EMM GEE"

[wholagun]

America is an elephant that doesn't know its own power. Your slightest move sends shockwaves over here in Canada. Believe it or not, US is a treat to Canadian identy. You guys scew us over on issues like soft wood lumber, its free trade but you guys take advantage of us.. Most Americans think that Canada is Americans bitch and will do as is told, thats why many of us are not happy.

You can't look at Canadians hating US from a single incident. Sure the advisor called Bush an idiot, but that doesn't mean that all of us share her view.

Paul Martin which is the new PM will improve relations between our countries.

About booing the anthem, well lately here its been popular to put down Americans becausae we don't agree and you guys get mad at us for not having the same point of view. Its become popular to define Canadian identy and culture in form of anti Americanism and our differences.

[SFontaine]

sountern neighbour (notice the "U").

Good job proving the point of the article I posted

[oates]

One question I do have is that I have had a Canadian friend tell me that most of the Canadians that live in the west are very pro American, where as most towards the east (particuairly the French) are very anti American, is this true?

Typically yes, this is true. The West (maybe subtract the west coast from this genalization) is a lot more like your Texas, more guns, more conservative values (although that is changing as lots of easterners flock west as there have been a lot of jobs out here over the last decade or so), and also tend to support the US (generally, not just talking about a few of my friends). I'm sure you will find lower support for the US in Eastern Canada (I believe it was Montreal, in Quebec that booed the American Anthem at the hockey game, something the rest of Canada (for the most part) found disgusting).

[Guttorm]

I find it strange that americans are "threatned" by Canadian patriotism.
I've always thought of USA as the most patroistic country in the world...
I saw it with my own eyes when I was over there.

I can understand that someone could take offence if someone was CONSTANTLY Raving on about theire country, but threatned?

[stuntman]

Maybe Canada thinks we (Americans) are like Homer Simpson!

[Mark Sman]

OK, where to start.

I live in Central Florida. Which, for those of you who don't, means I live around many Canadians.

Some young, more actually older retirees and whatnot. I don't see much in the way of resentment for Maple Leaf shirts. And I mean big ones. Hell, I have A Leafs jersey from back in the day that I won in a bet. I wear it. I would be actually suprised if someone gave me crap over it too.

I have met Canadians at work, in bars, at the dog track, at Lightning games, in church, online, in their homes and in mine. I have never felt any of the trifling BS mentioned in the article that started this literary ramble, nor do I believe did most of the other people present at said events.

Oh crap. I forgot to mention the time Red Green came to our local PBS station.

Anyway, that being said, a few coments.


Un: When arguing politics, or similar twaddle, it is not uncommon for one party to make statements about what the second party thinks. Sometimes both parties engage in this endless solipism. It would serve us all well to make our statements based upon what we each have witnessed and what we each think. Let the other guy state his own position, believe me he's usually just itching to do so.

Deux: Booing the national anthem of the United States of America.
I have been to events, in my country and others, where the anthems of several nations have played. Some of which I downright detest. Never booed. Maybe this is one I'm never going to get. Whatever. Doesn't really matter. I haven't seen it happen anywhere though. I figure most everyone, everywhere will get that.

Trois: hahaha? Bahamian?

Quatre: Canadians are Americans. I say this as a cold fact. Ask a Mexican. ?Donde esta Norte America? Hell Canadians aren't just Americans, they are North Americans just like Mexicans. Step One is denial. I could walk you through the next eleven steps but I don't have time for it.


Cinq: Machias Seal Island is ours. BEYOTCHES! And I swear, if I see one Maple Leaf anywhere on or in the naviagble waters near that soverign land of the United States of America . . . well . . . lets just say I'm going Col. Kurtz on ya'll, with a side order of Marcelus Wallace and just a hint of Darth Vader.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Ya personally I've never been to an event were the American national anthem has been boo'd, I've seen the Canadian national anthem be boo'd before but not the American. (mind you i think it was during the playoffs)

[EvanL]

Ya personally I've never been to an event were the American national anthem has been boo'd, I've seen the Canadian national anthem be boo'd before but not the American. (mind you i think it was during the playoffs)
I was aat a Devils/Leafs game in new jersey last year in April at the height of the war in Iraq, and tehy booed our anthem. Its so retarded for Americans to boo the Canadian anthem at a hockey game. you think the players who areall Canadian anyways would appreciate there fans doing that?
I dont think so.

[Seraphim]

The american anthem was boo'ed several times at NHL games...Don Cherry was mad as hell. I think the boo'ing started in Canada and then the US started boo'ing back.

[Andyman]

French Canadians are against everything guys so don't be offended by their Anti-Americanisn cause we get their **** too. Remember the FLQ (Front Du Liberation Du Quebec) Freakin seperatists.