(UK)Two charged after police shoot man

[Geezah]

Two men have been charged with firearms offences after a police swoop in which a suspect was shot dead by an armed officer and three guns were recovered.

The shooting happened on Saturday night in Edgware, north west London.

Wesley Lovell, 26, unemployed, of no fixed address, and Frank Graham, aged 23, unemployed, of the Clem Attlee Estate in Fulham were appearing in custody at Horseferry Road Magistrates Court in London charged with possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life.

The suspect, who has not been named, but was believed to be in his 20s, was killed during a pre-planned police operation in Edgware involving 25 officers.

The officer who shot him has been stood down from firearm duties, which is normal practice following such incidents.

The shooting was one of several incidents involving firearms across the capital over the weekend. Another man shot dead in Wood Green, north London and a third man was shot in a nightclub in Wimbledon, south London, but survived and is in a serious condition.

An investigation into the police shooting was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

Scotland Yard refused to release any details of the operation, simply saying it was a "pre-planned armed operation involving a car stop".

The incident occurred after officers from the Specialist Crime Directorate and the Met's specialist firearms unit SO19 stopped a white VW Golf driving along Hale Lane, Edgware, at 8pm.

Two men were in the front and a third - the deceased - was seated in the back and was seen holding a firearm. A spokeswoman for the IPCC said: "Police fired a number of shots and the man was hit when in the vehicle. The man was given first aid on the pavement but was ****ounced dead at the scene. Three firearms were recovered from the vehicle and will be the subject of urgent forensic examination."


Link (http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/PA_NEWA14844221114982277A00006?source=PA%20Feed)

What can be done to tackle the rise in firearm crime, while I may advocate arming the law abiding there are a few on here that say that will never happen, so please, with the terrible rise in violent crime what alternatives are there?

[Nedflanders]

You will find that instances of actual gun crime on mainland Britain is quite low.

It would not be anywhere near the level were any sane person would consider relaxing the controls on firearms licensing so that any Tom, **** or Harry could acquire a gun for self defence.

I firmly believe however that Police Ofiicers throughout the U.K. should be given a choice as to whether they wished to carry or not.

NF.

[Geezah]

You will find that instances of actual gun crime on mainland Britain is quite low.[quote=Nedflanders] low as I remember it being back int he 70s

[quote="Nedflanders"]
It would not be anywhere near the level were any sane person would consider relaxing the controls on firearms licensing so that any Tom, **** or Harry could acquire a gun for self defence.

But if that Tom **** or Harry was able to pass the required background check, that covers mental health, spousal abuse, assault and so then why is it a bad thing if they have passed the required checks?
Why is it you look at every citizen as a potential crook?



I firmly believe however that Police Ofiicers throughout the U.K. should be given a choice as to whether they wished to carry or not.

NF.

I firmly agree but for arguements sake why are the Police th eonly ones that should be allowed to arm themselves?

Anyway, what alternatives are there for the law abiding or should they be fored to rely on the Police for protection?

[Nedflanders]

But if that Tom **** or Harry was able to pass the required background check, that covers mental health, spousal abuse, assault and so then why is it a bad thing if they have passed the required checks?
Why is it you look at every citizen as a potential crook?
I firmly agree but for arguements sake why are the Police th eonly ones that should be allowed to arm themselves?



I think that you will find that within the United Kingdom NO-ONE is calling for the routine arming of every Tom, **** and Harry. The higher majority of Police Officers do not want to carry firearms.

It is not as simple as looking at everyone as a potential crook. Anyone can have a 'lapse'. If they have a lapse with a firearm people will die.
There are some people on this forum (who I don't know personally, just through their posts) that I would not trust with a water pistol !!!

Also, weapon security. If I were a crook I would go looking for guns in peoples houses if I wanted/needed one. The less guns that are out there the less guns are out there.

NF.

[Geezah]

But if that Tom **** or Harry was able to pass the required background check, that covers mental health, spousal abuse, assault and so then why is it a bad thing if they have passed the required checks?
Why is it you look at every citizen as a potential crook?
I firmly agree but for arguements sake why are the Police th eonly ones that should be allowed to arm themselves?



I think that you will find that within the United Kingdom NO-ONE is calling for the routine arming of every Tom, **** and Harry.

No but that doesn't answer my quesion, if the proper checks and balances are in place why is it a bad thing for the law abiding to own a firearm, if they choose to?



The higher majority of Police Officers do not want to carry firearms.

And that is their choice.



It is not as simple as looking at everyone as a potential crook. Anyone can have a 'lapse'. If they have a lapse with a firearm people will die.

Then there should be 80million lapses everyday in the US, you are paintiing everyone with the same brush.



There are some people on this forum (who I don't know personally, just through their posts) that I would not trust with a water pistol !!!

I fully agree.



Also, weapon security. If I were a crook I would go looking for guns in peoples houses if I wanted/needed one.

This is a small problem over here, that's why you will find the legal gun owning community are careful about who they talk to about the guns they own. After my 3rd firearm I pursued getting a safe, if someone can get that out of my house then good luck, responsible firearm storage is in my mind part of being a gun owner. You must hold yourself to a higher level than the average Joe, because I will not contribute to the anti-gunites arguement for disarming the law abiding.



The less guns that are out there the less guns are out there.

NF.

It's already a proven fatc that this does not apply, how many legally held firearms have been used in a crime?

[Nedflanders]

The point here is that the U.K. citizen has no right to routinely carry weapons of offence for defence.

It's as simple as that.
The USA is different. Our country is not going to change. Our country is not the USA.

I, as I have previously stated am for the arming of certain people if certain criteria are met.

I am against the banning of sporting handgun shooting. I believe that it could be allowed with a MINIMAL risk to the public.

I am against the routine arming of every Tom, **** and Harry.

There are enough guns on the streets without the state adding to the problem !!!

NF.

[EsoognomEhT]

But if that Tom **** or Harry was able to pass the required background check, that covers mental health, spousal abuse, assault and so then why is it a bad thing if they have passed the required checks?


Mr Moore tells us otherwise!

[Geezah]

But if that Tom **** or Harry was able to pass the required background check, that covers mental health, spousal abuse, assault and so then why is it a bad thing if they have passed the required checks?


Mr Moore tells us otherwise!

rofl Mr Moore who's armed bodyguard was arrested for carrying a gun in New York, where he not licensed to do so rofl

[EsoognomEhT]

then his bodyguard is silly, not mr moore ;)

[BarkingSquirrel]

You don't find it hypocritical that an anti-gunner employs armed bodyguards?

[Geezah]

then his bodyguard is silly, not mr moore ;)

Mr anti-gun Moore hires armed bodyguards rofl

[EsoognomEhT]

Because the law allows lots of people that dont like him to have guns!

[BarkingSquirrel]

Quit deflecting, address the issue.

[EsoognomEhT]

Thats no deflection, its the truth. Maybe you cant handle the truth?

[BarkingSquirrel]

I can handle the truth just fine. The truth is that a man actively trying to disarm everyone is himself employing people who are armed. There is no excuse for hypocrisy on that scale, why do you even try?

[BlackRain]

But if that Tom **** or Harry was able to pass the required background check, that covers mental health, spousal abuse, assault and so then why is it a bad thing if they have passed the required checks?
Why is it you look at every citizen as a potential crook?


Excellent question Grasshopper!

The answer is the government fears the rabble and disarms them.

This was the very reason for the first gun control laws in the UK. The government feared that the communist and socialist elements of the unions could launch an armed insurrection. Couple that with the fear of arrmed immigrants and poof --- your first gun control laws.

The gun control laws have nothing to due with safety but everytihing to due with power. The slave class is too blind to see it.

Remember Chairman Mao's slogan: "Political Power Grows Out of the Barrel of a Gun, the Communist Party must control the guns."

[Oddbod]

Those who seek to stop others from having the means to defend themselves do not feel this should apply to all:

"HCI spokesman Joseph D. McNamara thinks the limousine liberals, wealthy celebrities, and lords and ladies of the manor should have firearms, and to hell with the peasants. "As much as I oppose the average person's having a gun, I recognize that some people have a legitimate need to own one. A wealthy corporate executive who fears his family might get kidnapped is one such person. A Hollywood celebrity who has to protect himself from kooks is another. If Sharon Tate had had access to a gun during the Manson killings, some innocent lives might have been saved." -- Joseph D. McNamara (San Jose, CA ex-Police Chief, and HCI spokesman)"

[Malc]

You will find that instances of actual gun crime on mainland Britain is quite low.

It would not be anywhere near the level were any sane person would consider relaxing the controls on firearms licensing so that any Tom, **** or Harry could acquire a gun for self defence.

I firmly believe however that Police Ofiicers throughout the U.K. should be given a choice as to whether they wished to carry or not.

NF.

I beleif they have a vote on it almost every year at their annual conference and 2/3 say they don't think they need firearms.

[BlackRain]

A wealthy corporate executive who fears his family might get kidnapped is one such person.

So a poor executive's family is not as important and deserving of equal protection ast the rich executives?

That is some interesting logic there.

[EsoognomEhT]

Those who seek to stop others from having the means to defend themselves do not feel this should apply to all:

"HCI spokesman Joseph D. McNamara thinks the limousine liberals, wealthy celebrities, and lords and ladies of the manor should have firearms, and to hell with the peasants. "As much as I oppose the average person's having a gun, I recognize that some people have a legitimate need to own one. A wealthy corporate executive who fears his family might get kidnapped is one such person. A Hollywood celebrity who has to protect himself from kooks is another. If Sharon Tate had had access to a gun during the Manson killings, some innocent lives might have been saved." -- Joseph D. McNamara (San Jose, CA ex-Police Chief, and HCI spokesman)"


Thats America, doesnt apply here

[Geezah]

Update:

Shooting victim 'had crime history'


A suspeced drug dealer shot dead by armed police had previously been involved in a shooting in his home, it emerged today.

Azelle Rodney, 24, was shot by officers on Sunday night as he sat in a car which had been stopped by police in Edgware. He and two other men were believed to be on their way to rob and kidnap a drug dealer.

A neighbour said today Mr Rodney had a reputation for gun crime and that he had heard shots fired in his Fulham flat last year. Sunday’s shooting is being investigated.


Link (http://www.thisislondon.com/news/londonnews/articles/18329896?source=Evening%20Standard)

[EsoognomEhT]

He and two other men were believed to be on their way to rob and kidnap a drug dealer.


And the cops shot him? Bugger!