View Full Version : Iraqi Colonels claims of WMD?
Argyll
12-08-2003, 01:35 PM
Read this today and found it interesting!!
http://uk.srd.yahoo.com/S=11111254:WS1/R=1/K=Lt+Col+Al-Dabbagh/*-http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/07/wirq07.xml
Oddly enough he didn't say where these things went to?
Oddly enough he didn't say where these things went to?
A different thing is quite odd.
Quote from the article: "The devices, which were known by Iraqi officers as "the secret weapon", were made in Iraq and designed to be launched by hand-held rocket-propelled grenades. They could also have been launched sooner than the 45-minutes claimed in the dossier."
WMD launched from rpg???? Micro warheads with biological or chemical agents? Who would fire it?? Some martyr-like types? Or, maybe, Saddam had stolen idea from "Starship Troopers"? Do you remember, they had rpg-like mini nukes.
It looks like some kind of bluff - maybe even not conceived for West, but for Iraqis themselves.
WMD launched from rpg???? Micro warheads with biological or chemical agents? Who would fire it?? Some martyr-like types?
Isn't that what he paid the Fedayeen for? ;)
It could, however, explain the abundance of chem masks and suits the Coalition kept finding in Iraqi positions.
Argyll
12-08-2003, 03:22 PM
Which poses the questions ..............................where did they all go to?
If this is an accurate report,and there these things in the hands of the Fedayeen........I'd hate to think what could happen!!
There's no emoticon with both hands out saying "I have no idea." :D
I saw this on a news report yesterday that suggested it had been moved to another country, but it was more of a knudge-knudge-wink-wink type of comment.
If it's in the RPG's already, how much of the tons of that stuff has been checked? Guess we have a new ****-duty option for the screwups. :D
Shiruzu
12-08-2003, 03:33 PM
A hand-held WMD that can threat other countries! woot
:bash:
I'm just waiting for someone who tells the world, that Sadam had Mini-Nukes which can be fired from the shoulder.... :cantbeli:
Argyll
12-08-2003, 05:10 PM
I'm a bit sceptical of these claims,I doubt that the Iraqis could develop these type of warheads when this is the 1st time I've ever heard of this type of warhead,think of the distance that's involved compared to Artillery shells.......I think this story is BS personaly!
aktarian
12-09-2003, 12:18 PM
Lt-Col al-Dabbagh, 40, who was the head of an Iraqi air defence unit in the western desert, said that cases containing WMD warheads were delivered to front-line units, including his own, towards the end of last year.
rofl
Can anybody tell me why would air defence unit be equiped with RPG-type weapons? To shoot them at B-2s?
Mr Gently Benevolent
12-09-2003, 12:25 PM
They are really trying to justify the WMD claims do you ever get the feeling that they are clutching at straws. :lol:
Wait a minute...there is anyone that claims that sadam didn't had WMD ?
Do you think that is so hard to hide let say 50 missile (exsmple) in a country like iraq ?
aktarian
12-09-2003, 12:48 PM
Wait a minute...there is anyone that claims that sadam didn't had WMD ?
Do you think that is so hard to hide let say 50 missile (exsmple) in a country like iraq ?
Us is in control of Iraq for more than 6 months. If they really existed why didn't they show up? And why is this coming up now? And why is this colonel only one claiming this (he said there were many other units who were given these rounds)?
Wait a minute...there is anyone that claims that sadam didn't had WMD ?
Do you think that is so hard to hide let say 50 missile (exsmple) in a country like iraq ?
Us is in control of Iraq for more than 6 months. If they really existed why didn't they show up? And why is this coming up now? And why is this colonel only one claiming this (he said there were many other units who were given these rounds)?
1. it is not so hard to hide those missile...even US were control iraq for 10 years....hmm you aware to the fact that in this days in europe people find bombs from WW2 ?
2. if you were a general and your country had WMD and you country were invaded by USA you were told if you had WMD or not ?
Mr Gently Benevolent
12-09-2003, 12:55 PM
Its a case of did have WMD's, as for hiding WMD's in a country the size of Iraq well its possible one middle east country disguised their WMD plant as a textile factory for years so anything is possible.
Argyll
12-09-2003, 12:59 PM
They should be clutching at Jack Straws(neck) he's the asshole who claimed about super douper intelligence saying that front line units were ready to deply them!!
All this is pure BS,not one single shell has been recovered in any artillery location that the Iraqi's had prior to the Invasion,and I'm pretty sure that IF something had been found then it would be splashed all over every Newsmedia network in the entire world saying "We told you so".......and then go on about justification ....yada yada yada!!
This is not the 1st claim,a "supposed "Republican Guard" officer went onto the networks to claim that frontline RG units had the means and the ammo there in position ready to use also prior to the invasion.......my slant was it was all part of the ruse to make the public accept the inevitability of war in Iraq
ha...The 1 thing i can say...i hope iran is next.
With the sihab 3 that can strike israel...and the sihab 4 and 5 that can strike erupe...and the large WMD that they have...they are the most danger country in the world (after israel !! :roll:)
Shiruzu
12-09-2003, 01:08 PM
2. if you were a general and your country had WMD and you country were invaded by USA you were told if you had WMD or not ?
Nope, there was little or no communication between Sadam(+Sons) and the Iraqi Army, because they were all afraid, that someone in the iraqi army could turn the gun against Sadam(...btw, thats the reason, the iraqis were so badly trained).
And remember, how many Iraqi Soldiers surrendered - Sadam would have been nuts if he told someone that he has WMD, because the risk, that this news could spread was much too high!
If there would be WMD, there would also be some traces - some kind of lists or simple soldiers that report of strange activities or whatever...
And if missles are hidden somewhere, then there will be more than one or two persons, who know that.
I can't imagine, that there is a single field the US-Troops haven't dug up if an iraqi farmer told them, that some of Sadams men burried something there.
Shiruzu
12-09-2003, 01:10 PM
...it was all part of the ruse to make the public accept the inevitability of war in Iraq
THATS the point.
In any case the forming of Task Force 121 means that the hunt for WMDs is practically over. The SOF troops will concentrate on subdoing the Iraqi resistance, but might of course find something in the process. If there really is something out there.
Argyll
12-09-2003, 01:13 PM
I seriously doubt that Iraq sent their "Supposed" WMD to Iran,as they hated each other ,and as for sending them to Syria,you honestly think that the Syrian Border in Iraq was not under survaillance for severl weeks prior to the invasion........lets not kid ourselves on here,as soon as there was a whisper it was on the move the US would have had DA troops seize it.
Then if it was buried,then it also shows that there was no imtent to use it which also does not make sense,you're entire Country and your regime is about to get a giant kick in the gonads,from which it is certain you won't survive,so using them was not a problem,this was a country who has used them willingly in the past ,why not continue to do so.
How many people and machines does it take to bury this stuff?
And nothing was noticed with JSTARS,or any ELINT a/c?,no witnesses reports of strange goings on in the night ...........nothing!!
Shiruzu
12-09-2003, 01:14 PM
ha...The 1 thing i can say...i hope iran is next.
With the sihab 3 that can strike israel...and the sihab 4 and 5 that can strike erupe...and the large WMD that they have...they are the most danger country in the world (after israel !! :roll:)
USA can reach Europe too... :roll:
Why the **** shall anyone attack Iran - there are countries in the world wich are much more ****ed up (North Korea i.e.)...
Has any Iranian ever done something bad to you? To your country? Or do you know one Iranian personally? Do you even know, what your talkin' about?? :bash:
Why the hell an iraqi farmer will tell that to USA ?
The iraqis hate sadam...but they hate USA as well....
Shiruzu
12-09-2003, 01:26 PM
I've heard that the US-Troops don't mind threatening the farmers - so i think this shouldn't be the problem. ;)
And if there were about 50 missles, they would have needed several trucks to transport these. Why didn't anyone notice this and where were the US sattelites with wich they (allegedly) can recognize a coin laying on a table?
Mr Gently Benevolent
12-09-2003, 01:30 PM
Either the assets of the NRO,NSA,DOD and CIA suck **** badly or their were no WMD's in existence.
ha...The 1 thing i can say...i hope iran is next.
With the sihab 3 that can strike israel...and the sihab 4 and 5 that can strike erupe...and the large WMD that they have...they are the most danger country in the world (after israel !! :roll:)
USA can reach Europe too... :roll:
Why the f*** shall anyone attack Iran - there are countries in the world wich are much more f*** up (North Korea i.e.)...
Has any Iranian ever done something bad to you? To your country? Or do you know one Iranian personally? Do you even know, what your talkin' about?? :bash:
Are you for real ? what iran did to my country ? hm...let's see...
fund all the ****in palstinian terroists...fund the ****ing hizbulla terrosits and give them weopns...
and btw : my best friend is from iran (he is a jew but still...).
Argyll
12-09-2003, 01:39 PM
Either the assets of the NRO,NSA,DOD and CIA suck **** badly or their were no WMD's in existence.
I'll take all of them!! ;)
aktarian
12-09-2003, 01:41 PM
Are you for real ? what iran did to my country ? hm...let's see...
fund all the f*** palstinian terroists...fund the f*** hizbulla terrosits and give them weopns...
and btw : my best friend is from iran (he is a jew but still...).
That didn't prevent Israel from selling them ****load of weapons from arty shells to HAWK SAMs to spares for F-4s. After revolution, that is.
aktarian
12-09-2003, 01:42 PM
Its a case of did have WMD's, as for hiding WMD's in a country the size of Iraq well its possible one middle east country disguised their WMD plant as a textile factory for years so anything is possible.
And US of course had 100.000+ troops in that country who looked at location and found nothing, eh? :roll:
Are you for real ? what iran did to my country ? hm...let's see...
fund all the f*** palstinian terroists...fund the f*** hizbulla terrosits and give them weopns...
and btw : my best friend is from iran (he is a jew but still...).
That didn't prevent Israel from selling them ****load of weapons from arty shells to HAWK SAMs to spares for F-4s. After revolution, that is.
You mean before the revolution.
aktarian
12-09-2003, 01:45 PM
You mean before the revolution.
I ment after the revolution. Like I said in my post.
You mean before the revolution.
I ment after the revolution. Like I said in my post.
I will wait to the other israeli members to explain me what you want...
Soory...i have ****ing bad english.
Shiruzu
12-09-2003, 01:50 PM
...fund all the f*** palstinian terroists...fund the f*** hizbulla terrosits and give them weopns...
and btw : my best friend is from iran (he is a jew but still...).
I don't want to say that this is a good thing, but firing big missles like the Sihab is aggression on a higher level, don't you think?
IDFM203
12-09-2003, 03:06 PM
I am going to stay out of the WMD debate for its obviously not a rational debate (I and other’s believe Iraq had them and was in the process of building and developing more and either hid them well which is very plausible due to the enormous size of that country or they are in other countries now which is also very plausible ...........and a lot of you dispute what I just said.....fine lets leave it at that with me)
Ill just respond to one point here.
You mean before the revolution.
I ment after the revolution. Like I said in my post.
We went over this already.
A, what Israel did after was very very small. It was not large amounts or even any heavy armaments.(even like you say it was mostly parts or some shells.) by no means was Israel any major supplier of weapons or anything like that. Secondly it was in the context of the Iraq-Iran war.
B, it ended by the mid 80’s before Iran started to get heavily involved with hetblah and other terrorist organisations that have targeted for the most part Israeli civilians (in hetballh’s case they target both soldiers and civilians they make no distinctions, where as the other terrorist groups for the most part only target civilians)
C, like I said before it wasn’t official Israeli government policy and Israel has some of its own (as does every other country) rouge arms dealers and it was they that made their own deals.,
And lastly and most importantly. Israel is not perfect and if they did that then THEY WERE WRONG with Iran!!! Yes I say it. Now just because Israel did something wrong with its small help in the 80’s that doesn’t justify at all allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons in order to wipe off Israel (as the Islamic fundamentalists in charge want to do and as their military parades always have some Israel destruction theme clearly written and visible on them) and to threaten the entire middle east with. What Israel or anyone else did and even if it was wrong doesn’t mean that other wrongs and even much more greater wrongs (nuclear weapons in the hands of regimes that intend to use it first) should be allowed.
I mean to even compare or say because of a few spare parts to Iran well now Iran is allowed nuclear weapons and the amount of destruction that they can cause is simply preposterous and is beyond rational.
Shalom :D
aktarian
12-09-2003, 04:02 PM
We went over this already.
A, what Israel did after was very very small. It was not large amounts or even any heavy armaments.(even like you say it was mostly parts or some shells.) by no means was Israel any major supplier of weapons or anything like that. Secondly it was in the context of the Iraq-Iran war.
It all depends on what you consider small and heavy armaments. If you consider deals worth tens of millions of dollars and critical equipment for planes (which would be inoperative otherwise) and entire HAWK SAM missiles and radar systems small, well, then our definitions differ.
B, it ended by the mid 80’s before Iran started to get heavily involved with hetblah and other terrorist organisations that have targeted for the most part Israeli civilians
By then it only really started.
(in hetballh’s case they target both soldiers and civilians they make no distinctions, where as the other terrorist groups for the most part only target civilians)
Perhaps you should check numbers of civilians killed before you say they target civilians (if they are targeting civilians Israel was exterminating Lebanese)
C, like I said before it wasn’t official Israeli government policy and Israel has some of its own (as does every other country) rouge arms dealers and it was they that made their own deals.,
It involved companies with strong governemnt ties and used IDF/AF planes and facilities to move stuff around. Plus they were sharing intel date colected by IDF/AF planes. To claim Israeli gov't wasn't involved is lie, pure and simple.
And lastly and most importantly. Israel is not perfect and if they did that then THEY WERE WRONG with Iran!!! Yes I say it.
Glad to see you admit that ISrael was making deals with devil incarnate to further their interests and was amking deals with gov't that was sponsoring group that was killing Israelis.
Now just because Israel did something wrong with its small help in the 80’s that doesn’t justify at all allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons in order to wipe off Israel (as the Islamic fundamentalists in charge want to do and as their military parades always have some Israel destruction theme clearly written and visible on them) and to threaten the entire middle east with. What Israel or anyone else did and even if it was wrong doesn’t mean that other wrongs and even much more greater wrongs (nuclear weapons in the hands of regimes that intend to use it first) should be allowed.
First of all you failed to explain what will Iran gain if they nuke Israel (beside saving electricity bill for several large cities that will glow in dark for next millenia or so). What? Next you justify Israel's possesion of nukes by being threateend, yet Iran can't apply same standards. Next Iran is signatory to NPT and allows inspections of it's nuclear facilities (something Israel doesn't). As for first use. Seeing how Israel doesn't face any nation with nukes it obviouslly plans to use them first.
I mean to even compare or say because of a few spare parts to Iran well now Iran is allowed nuclear weapons and the amount of destruction that they can cause is simply preposterous and is beyond rational.
Shalom :D
You draw that conclusion, not me. I said that Israel had no problems dealing with gov't that was sponsoring Hezbollah, which was killing Israelis. you draw conclusion that by aiding them IRan is allowed to have nukes. How you got to that point is beyond me, sorry.
aktarian
12-09-2003, 04:02 PM
We went over this already.
A, what Israel did after was very very small. It was not large amounts or even any heavy armaments.(even like you say it was mostly parts or some shells.) by no means was Israel any major supplier of weapons or anything like that. Secondly it was in the context of the Iraq-Iran war.
It all depends on what you consider small and heavy armaments. If you consider deals worth tens of millions of dollars and critical equipment for planes (which would be inoperative otherwise) and entire HAWK SAM missiles and radar systems small, well, then our definitions differ.
B, it ended by the mid 80’s before Iran started to get heavily involved with hetblah and other terrorist organisations that have targeted for the most part Israeli civilians
By then it only really started.
(in hetballh’s case they target both soldiers and civilians they make no distinctions, where as the other terrorist groups for the most part only target civilians)
Perhaps you should check numbers of civilians killed before you say they target civilians (if they are targeting civilians Israel was exterminating Lebanese)
C, like I said before it wasn’t official Israeli government policy and Israel has some of its own (as does every other country) rouge arms dealers and it was they that made their own deals.,
It involved companies with strong governemnt ties and used IDF/AF planes and facilities to move stuff around. Plus they were sharing intel date colected by IDF/AF planes. To claim Israeli gov't wasn't involved is lie, pure and simple.
And lastly and most importantly. Israel is not perfect and if they did that then THEY WERE WRONG with Iran!!! Yes I say it.
Glad to see you admit that ISrael was making deals with devil incarnate to further their interests and was amking deals with gov't that was sponsoring group that was killing Israelis.
Now just because Israel did something wrong with its small help in the 80’s that doesn’t justify at all allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons in order to wipe off Israel (as the Islamic fundamentalists in charge want to do and as their military parades always have some Israel destruction theme clearly written and visible on them) and to threaten the entire middle east with. What Israel or anyone else did and even if it was wrong doesn’t mean that other wrongs and even much more greater wrongs (nuclear weapons in the hands of regimes that intend to use it first) should be allowed.
First of all you failed to explain what will Iran gain if they nuke Israel (beside saving electricity bill for several large cities that will glow in dark for next millenia or so). What? Next you justify Israel's possesion of nukes by being threateend, yet Iran can't apply same standards. Next Iran is signatory to NPT and allows inspections of it's nuclear facilities (something Israel doesn't). As for first use. Seeing how Israel doesn't face any nation with nukes it obviouslly plans to use them first.
I mean to even compare or say because of a few spare parts to Iran well now Iran is allowed nuclear weapons and the amount of destruction that they can cause is simply preposterous and is beyond rational.
Shalom :D
You draw that conclusion, not me. I said that Israel had no problems dealing with gov't that was sponsoring Hezbollah, which was killing Israelis. you draw conclusion that by aiding them IRan is allowed to have nukes. How you got to that point is beyond me, sorry.
IDFM203
12-09-2003, 05:03 PM
It all depends on what you consider small and heavy armaments. If you consider deals worth tens of millions of dollars and critical equipment for planes (which would be inoperative otherwise) and entire HAWK SAM missiles and radar systems small, well, then our definitions differ. . yes in that war where other nations were supplying them with planes and tanks and other heavy weaponry, Israeli spare parts and shells (oh BTW you have proof to these hawk and radar claims ) are not a big factor in all that!!!!
Millions of dollars is just your attempts at spin and to make it sound bigger. I mean if Israel sold a bullet to them for a million dollars does not mean heavy involvement. NO, money does not mean anything especially when Iran got billions in heavy armaments be it from planes and tanks and other things, from other nations.(including European ones)
Again Israel was a tiny player in all this.
By then it only really started. . the fact is that Iran started helping for the most part AFTER the iraq iran war and that was after anything that it had with Israel.
Perhaps you should check numbers of civilians killed before you say they target civilians (if they are targeting civilians Israel was exterminating Lebanese) . no perhaps you should check up on the targeting of Israeli civilian towns and villages (not army bases) that they did throughout!!
Israel for the most part targeted only hetbllh and not simply civilian towns or villages (and yes there were a few cases but they were mistakes and they were after hetbblah used that as a area to lunch rockets into Israel)
It involved companies with strong governemnt ties and used IDF/AF planes and facilities to move stuff around. Plus they were sharing intel date colected by IDF/AF planes. To claim Israeli gov't wasn't involved is lie, pure and simple. . read carefully. It was not official policy. Now was there some government misters involved probably yes but it was no official and there is no proof that the prime Minster was involved
For the most part it was rouge arms dealers
And anyways again even if there was, those Israelis were wrong as I stated before.
Glad to see you admit that ISrael was making deals with devil incarnate to further their interests and was amking deals with gov't that was sponsoring group that was killing Israelis. . well first of all Israel doesn’t come close to the level that you Europeans have dealt with the devil.
But secondly it was before Iran was helping to kill Israelis
Now what’s important to know is it was not Israel but merely a few government and private officials .,,,,,most Israelis do/did not support that and say its wrong and even I admit its wrong.
This is in stark contrast to the official policy of Iran that enjoys the support of a large percentage of the Iranian population that do fully support Iran actually helping in the attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers.
First of all you failed to explain what will Iran gain if they nuke Israel (beside saving electricity bill for several large cities that will glow in dark for next millenia or so). . oh yes I did………….I repeat “ as the Islamic fundamentalists in charge want to do and as their military parades always have some Israel destruction theme clearly written and visible on them” secondly this is not about you thinking rationally or what you think Iran wants or not. No, they have made their intentions quite clear and your rationalisations have no meaning to that. its like with a sucide bomber's religious belief of martyrdom and 72 virgins, that’s not rational But it is a fact and that’s what they do based on their beliefs.
They are a Islamic state that has declared Israel a sworn enemy simply because they believe we Jews are all infidels living on their holy land and need to be exterminated from there and the only way they can achieve that is through nuclear weapons
Secondly all their military parades have a death to Israel theme on it with even some of the missiles have a cloth over it with Haifa or Jerusalem written on it.
So if you want to put your head in the sand to that reality then so be , Israel on the other hand doesn’t have your luxury to do that for it’s the primary target.
Boy you Europeans never case to amaze me :cantbeli: :roll:
What? Next you justify Israel's possesion of nukes by being threateend, . your damn right!!! Israel has had them now for thirty years and that has been the only reason why the Arabs have not attacked Israel again since then.
Yes Israel is threatened!!! And it’s only because of that awesome deterrent factor that no Arab army has conventially tried to attack it as they had before that. Now with nukes and their Islamic fundamentalist ideology, well Israels deterrent will be severally reduced.
yet Iran can't apply same standards. . oh how is Israel threatening Iran or now that Iraq is neutralized how is anyone else in the mid east threatening Iran???……Israel never threatened them with annihilation as Iran has repeatedly done to Israel……….
Next Iran is signatory to NPT and allows inspections of it's nuclear facilities . hahahaha that’s all I can say about that signatory and its significance in reality as it relates to actual full compliance.
. As for first use. Seeing how Israel doesn't face any nation with nukes it obviouslly plans to use them first. . wow :cantbeli: so Israel has had them for thirty years and has not used them once………..I mean how did you just draw that ridicules conclusion!!! :roll:
Get this clear. Israel has nukes strictly for defence as a deterrent that serves as a counter balance to the Arabs over whelming numerical strength...while Iran has made clear its offensive nature and attitudes that is indeed very threatening.
You draw that conclusion, not me. I said that Israel had no problems dealing with gov't that was sponsoring Hezbollah, .
No Iran wasn’t really helping yet with hetbblh.
Secondly Israel does have a problem and so do most of the Israeli people, those who sold the weapons were wrong and it shouldn’t have happened and most Israelis recognise that and do not support it. Remember that most Israelis didn’t know a thing about what was happening and did not support it if indeed it was going on while iran was helping to kill Israelis.
you draw conclusion that by aiding them IRan is allowed to have nukes. How you got to that point is beyond me, sorry. haha its beyond you…… :roll: well you seemed to imply that since some Israeli’s did a wrong in the 80’s Israel now has no right to complain when Iran is building nuclear weapons which are a clear and vital threat to Israel.
that logic is very wrong that is all I am saying!!
Actually if your not doing that but mealy trying to say that what a few government people and a few private citizens did in the 80’s as some sort of comparison to Iran since actually helping hetbblh and other terrorist groups with weapons, training, and funding and all this is a official government policy that is in fact supported by a large percentage of Iranians, well that too is wrong and ridicules to assert
shalom :D
aktarian
12-09-2003, 06:40 PM
yes in that war where other nations were supplying them with planes and tanks and other heavy weaponry, Israeli spare parts and shells (oh BTW you have proof to these hawk and radar claims ) are not a big factor in all that!!!!
What other nations? Syria. Libya, N Korea and China are extremlly short on western parts. Israel, OTOH, had lots of them.
As for proof, read "Iran-Iraq War in the air" by Tom Cooper and Farzad Bishop (Schiffer Military History, 2000). It covers it in details and provides sources for their claims.
Millions of dollars is just your attempts at spin and to make it sound bigger. I mean if Israel sold a bullet to them for a million dollars does not mean heavy involvement. NO, money does not mean anything especially when Iran got billions in heavy armaments be it from planes and tanks and other things, from other nations.(including European ones)
Actually, Europeans were supporting Iraq, in case you didn't notice. Like, French Mirages, Exocets.... Iran, OTOH, had to buy from N Korea and China and something from Libya. And Israel.
Again Israel was a tiny player in all this.
Israel was main supplier for western equipment for Iranians. Since both states operated lot of similar weapons.
the fact is that Iran started helping for the most part AFTER the iraq iran war and that was after anything that it had with Israel.
Check your facts. When did IRGC members come to Bekaa? When was Hezbollah founded? When did Iran-Iraq war end?
no perhaps you should check up on the targeting of Israeli civilian towns and villages (not army bases) that they did throughout!!
And how amny civilians were kileld in this targetings? I would like you to state the number here. People will be surprised at it, though.
Israel for the most part targeted only hetbllh and not simply civilian towns or villages (and yes there were a few cases but they were mistakes and they were after hetbblah used that as a area to lunch rockets into Israel)
Areas like Beirut and Bekaa? They don't have missiles with that range, you know.
read carefully. It was not official policy. Now was there some government misters involved probably yes but it was no official and there is no proof that the prime Minster was involved
If people can get intel (like aerial photos) of Iraq and sensitive electronics like HAWK missile systems than Israel has soem serious problems with secuity.
For the most part it was rouge arms dealers
See above.
And anyways again even if there was, those Israelis were wrong as I stated before.
So they were. Nobody was held responsible for cooperating with gov't which helped organisation that was killing Israelis, though.
well first of all Israel doesn’t come close to the level that you Europeans have dealt with the devil.
Meaning?
But secondly it was before Iran was helping to kill Israelis
No. Check timeline.
Now what’s important to know is it was not Israel but merely a few government and private officials .,,,,,
Which, surprise, surprise, had acess to IDF/AF facilities, planes, SAM and plane spare parts and intel on Iraq. Damn, your security is really bad if anybody can get their hands on HAWK SAM.
most Israelis do/did not support that and say its wrong and even I admit its wrong.
Was anybody held responsible? Trialed? Sentenced to prison for selling military spare parts that would be used by Israel military?
This is in stark contrast to the official policy of Iran that enjoys the support of a large percentage of the Iranian population that do fully support Iran actually helping in the attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers.
And for this Iran is held responsible .
oh yes I did………….I repeat “ as the Islamic fundamentalists in charge want to do and as their military parades always have some Israel destruction theme clearly written and visible on them” secondly this is not about you thinking rationally or what you think Iran wants or not. No, they have made their intentions quite clear and your rationalisations have no meaning to that. its like with a sucide bomber's religious belief of martyrdom and 72 virgins, that’s not rational But it is a fact and that’s what they do based on their beliefs.
If Iranians are so bloodthirsty why didn't they invade Afghanistan when Taliban killed 11 of their diplomats and masacred large numbers of shi'ia Hazaris? And this is in their neighborhood and against regime nobody would really miss? They had the chance and were on verga of doing so. Could it be that 8 years of war taught them that war isn't something you start lightlly? Nah, they were too bloodthirsty to attack. :roll:
They are a Islamic state that has declared Israel a sworn enemy simply because they believe we Jews are all infidels living on their holy land and need to be exterminated from there and the only way they can achieve that is through nuclear weapons
Seeing how ISrael is state of Jews you shouldn't point to Iranian regime. As for occupying land, well, you do. US helped afghans when Sovs were ocupying Afghansitan and nobody complanied (besides Sovs, that is).
Secondly all their military parades have a death to Israel theme on it with even some of the missiles have a cloth over it with Haifa or Jerusalem written on it.
So if you want to put your head in the sand to that reality then so be , Israel on the other hand doesn’t have your luxury to do that for it’s the primary target.
Israelis state they want peace publiclly but privatlly they reject offers. That should tell you that you shouldn't take everything you see at face value.
Boy you Europeans never case to amaze me :cantbeli: :roll:
Thanks. We try our best.
oh how is Israel threatening Iran or now that Iraq is neutralized how is anyone else in the mid east threatening Iran???……Israel never threatened them with annihilation as Iran has repeatedly done to Israel……….
Iranians learned one think. That is if they are attacked nobody will care and everybody will back the attacker. And if Iranians are gassed nobody will care and everybody will back the attacker. And if attacker starts blasting international shipping Iran will be blamed. Sounds like Iran has every reason to develop nukes.
hahahaha that’s all I can say about that signatory and its significance in reality as it relates to actual full compliance.
Iranian nuclear facilities can be inspected. That's a lot more than can be said about Israeli ones.
wow :cantbeli: so Israel has had them for thirty years and has not used them once………..I mean how did you just draw that ridicules conclusion!!! :roll:
First use means you will use nukes first. seeing how Israel doesn't face anybody with nukes it can't be second to use them, right? So it will be first one to use them. Or does Israel have some interesting spin about this?
Get this clear. Israel has nukes strictly for defence as a deterrent that serves as a counter balance to the Arabs over whelming numerical strength...while Iran has made clear its offensive nature and attitudes that is indeed very threatening.
Israel has very same attitudes. Iran has never initiated offensive war and can argue it needs nukes to counter nuclear weapons on 2/3 of it's borders.
No Iran wasn’t really helping yet with hetbblh.
It was. Check the times.
Secondly Israel does have a problem and so do most of the Israeli people, those who sold the weapons were wrong and it shouldn’t have happened and most Israelis recognise that and do not support it. Remember that most Israelis didn’t know a thing about what was happening and did not support it if indeed it was going on while iran was helping to kill Israelis.
I asked above if anybody was held responsible for these sales? If you answer this question above ignore this one.
haha its beyond you…… :roll: well you seemed to imply that since some Israeli’s did a wrong in the 80’s Israel now has no right to complain when Iran is building nuclear weapons which are a clear and vital threat to Israel.
that logic is very wrong that is all I am saying!!
You draw that conclusion, not me. So if anybody's logic is very wrong it's yours.
Actually if your not doing that but mealy trying to say that what a few government people and a few private citizens did in the 80’s as some sort of comparison to Iran since actually helping hetbblh and other terrorist groups with weapons, training, and funding and all this is a official government policy that is in fact supported by a large percentage of Iranians, well that too is wrong and ridicules to assert
shalom :D
I'm not saying that either. I'm saying that Israel had no problems dealing with Iran, who supported organisationthat was killing Israelis.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.10 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.