H&K G11

[Damien]

Has anybody used it? Or just saw it in action?

[Tribunius]

As far as I can recall the H&K G11 was the proposed next generation service rifle for the West German army but it was canceled when the cold war ended. I also seem to recall that a limited number were produced and issued to the german special forces. Think the number was about 800 could very well be wrong though. Don't know what became of them.

[Little J]

Heard they didn't last more than a few years (deniablity of such a weapon)

[TheKiwi]

My understanding is that limited numbers were in use by the German special forces. However, DynamiteNobel (I hope I got that spelling correct) ceased production of the ammunition a couple of years back. Without the ammo, the guns are no longer useful and have been retired.

[Tribunius]

Sounds about right.

[Kellhound]

Few years back it was supposed to be used by (HK didn't gave names) "several special operations groups around the world".

[Lenny]

No use in the "Bundeswehr" ( German Armee )

Only demonstrations and fieldtesting. There where slight problems with preignition of the caseless-ammo after very extensive fireing ( hot weapon )
After all the thing was to expensiv and the US demanded the 5.56mm ammo

created an acount extra to post this.... :D

[USMC-Congbuster]

theyre right on with the case-less ammunition idea

[Cygnus]

The Royal Thai army SFs got some of this great rifle.....

Wish the rest of the world went with the caseless cartridge its so cool...

[Lenny]

Only the problems with self ignition remain.

The G11 projekt nearly caused H&K's end. After all the NATO sticks to the "normal" .223 ammo ( due to the intervention of the US ). So the G11 and even the first version of the SA80 ( original NOT a 5,56 weapon ) had do change caliber or be binned.

We have some of the different G11 proto's in the H&K-Museum. Nice weapons, you're right but nothing kompared to the indestructable G3. :lol:

[Swedish Chef]

The Royal Thai army SFs got some of this great rifle.....
You wouldn't have any pic's of these rifles in Thailand, would you?

[Lenny]

The Royal Thai army SFs got some of this great rifle.....
You wouldn't have any pic's of these rifles in Thailand, would you?

Did I get that wrong? Did Cygnus meant the G11 or generally caseless weapons???

G11 whould be impossible....if so post some pics... whould be interesting ( and bring someone into jail her :lol: )

[Little J]

The Royal Thai army SFs got some of this great rifle.....
You wouldn't have any pic's of these rifles in Thailand, would you?


I'd be interested in seeing any photo's too. Didn't think anyone outside of German and the US ACR programme (oh and a bloke on another forum said he did see the UK Mod testing them)

[Lenny]

...a bloke on another forum said he did see the UK Mod testing them

Never... we only made some for fieldtesting in germany and the us. I never heard of them going to the UK or even Thailand. Must have been other weapons... on the other hand it's hard to get confuesed with g11 and other weapons. It has a pretty unique design :D

[REMOV]

I also seem to recall that a limited number were produced and issued to the german special forces.Only 15 assault rifles were actually in testing in Bundeswehr, not in special forces but wide variety of "normal" units. In early 90s world's special forces were not such important and don't spread their wings as currently, so in my opinion the stories about mysterious SF units using G11K2 are only urban myths.
Think the number was about 800 could very well be wrong though. AFAIK, no more than 150 G11 of every variant (incl. prototypes, LMGs etc.) were ever created.
Don't know what became of them.Some of them became museum exhibits, some are still stowed in dusty military or HK factory storagehouses etc. ;)

[Little J]

Plus, one was used by wesley snipes in "demolition man"

[Lenny]

The most testing was done by the "Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung" ( roughly "Federal Agency for Defencetechnology and procurement ) in cooperation with a special testing unit in the BW.

150 is a good figure given by "REMOV"... my informations are the same

[Hydro]

The Royal Thai army SFs got some of this great rifle.....
You wouldn't have any pic's of these rifles in Thailand, would you?


I'd be interested in seeing any photo's too. Didn't think anyone outside of German and the US ACR programme (oh and a bloke on another forum said he did see the UK Mod testing them)


I worked with a bloke who was a RAF police marksman, he tested the G11 AND the HK CAWS for the MoD.

[Lenny]

Are you shure it was the G11 or was it the HK11 ???

After all the HK11 is a nice weapon :lol:

[Hydro]

Definitely G11.

[Lenny]

Going to ask someone who def. know on Mo...

I'll post the answer

[Little J]

**possible reason**

BAe owned H&K, brought over some G11's to 'borrow' the technology. The MoD decides that it doesn't want the expense. BAe hands the guns back



What do you reckon?

[iurtunc]

check here for video.

http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm

[Zerodivider]

Only the problems with self ignition remain.



Actually that's not true - the last version didn't have any such problems. Only economics prevented the G11 from introduction...

[Lenny]

Actually that's not true - the last version didn't have any such problems. Only economics prevented the G11 from introduction...

The problems didn't happen as often with the new Dynamit Nobel - Ammo, but the never disapered intirely. You are right that the G11 was dropped due to economical reasons... but the self - ignitions remained , a lot less but even so.
Had a talk to a friend who was in the firm at that time. He couldn't recall any dilivering to the UK, but meant it is possible though. He promissed me to investigate and call me... so we are back were we started really :lol:

[Zerodivider]

http://www.sondereinheiten.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=125726&highlight=g11#125726


Ich kannte einen der damals an Truppenversuchen beteiligten Stabsoffiziere, der sagte, die hätten das G11 "rotglühend" geschossen, und es hätte sich nie ein Schuß unbeabsichtigt gelöst.

[REMOV]

The problems didn't happen as often with the new Dynamit Nobel - Ammo, but the never disapered intirely.Ekhm... you know, that problems with ammunition (caseless or normal) will never disapear entirely, there is always a temperature limit of self-ignition (for instance, for M249 AFAIR about 800 round non-stop sustained fire). So, you remark is useless, unless you give us a comparative criterion in which conditions the G11's cartridges behave in such manner.

[Lenny]

@ REMOV: The problem here is that I never tested it.....it was before my time . All I tell here is ( like everyone ) 2nd hand infos from colleges. We do have 2 here but nobody is allowed to take them out of the showcase.

We fired well over 700 Rounds with the G36 ( we have a special feeder for those tests ) without problems.... but the G11...can't tell because I haven't done it.
The G11 still had those problems, even if we don't like to mention it and these sertainly where ( beside the costs ) a reason for dropping it. This dosn't mean that the weapon blew up after 4 or 5 burst.... we are speaking of extensive, contious fire! Have you ever managed to fire a weapon that hot that the ammo sets of? I haven't because you have to reload or most likely get a other malfunktion. In germany this "deadfeeding-test" how we call it is only allowed with the special feeders and the weapon in a special holder with a remote trigger ( @Zerodriver: der Offizier hat übertrieben oder gegen die Sicherheitsauflagen verstossen und ne Menge Magazine zur Hand gehabt ( "rotglühend" ist aber wohl UL ), Link war bei mir BTW defekt ).

But that wasn't the topic. I however am sure there are non in Tailand... but I can't prove it, can I. the G11 was only manufactured for testing in very small numbers for germany and the us aar-program ( if the uk hat some or not is somthing i can't say anymore...was sure before though ). There no produktions for SF's at any time simply because nearly every rifle hat small changes tue to testing or "customers-to-be-suggestion". I find it quite amasing that there are all those rumors around but I have never seen a picture ...
:D

[Zerodivider]

( @Zerodriver: der Offizier hat übertrieben oder gegen die Sicherheitsauflagen verstossen und ne Menge Magazine zur Hand gehabt ( "rotglühend" ist aber wohl UL ), Link war bei mir BTW defekt )


Es war ein Truppenversuch, da wird das Material nunmal an die Belastbarkeitsgrenzen gebracht... Wenn ich bedenke was H&K mit den G36 anstellt... ;)

[flanker7]

The problems didn't happen as often with the new Dynamit Nobel - Ammo, but the never disapered intirely.Ekhm... you know, that problems with ammunition (caseless or normal) will never disapear entirely, there is always a temperature limit of self-ignition (for instance, for M249 AFAIR about 800 round non-stop sustained fire). So, you remark is useless, unless you give us a comparative criterion in which conditions the G11's cartridges behave in such manner.

Doesnt the M249 fire from an open bolt? The logical thing would be that it doesnt have problems with self-ingniton as there is no round in the chamber until you press the trigger

[Lenny]

@Zerodriver: Was G36 betrifft...siehe mein Post. Hab in meiner BW-Zeit mehr Urbanlegends über das G11 gehört als irgendwas anderes... 90% Mist.
Sollten aber bei engl. bleiben um den anderen das Mitlesen zu ermöglichen!
So...back to englisch please.

Suprised non of the experts noticed here... made a mistake in my last post..of course it was the acr program..not aar!!!

@flanker7: Never thought of it that way...you probably are right, but I have no experience with the Minimi what so ever. Had it in Hand at FN but thats all. Is it similar to an MP2 (Uzi-Type)? Never heard of any self-ignition there....exept the "falling-down-setoffs"

[flanker7]

@flanker7: Never thought of it that way...you probably are right, but I have no experience with the Minimi what so ever. Had it in Hand at FN but thats all. Is it similar to an MP2 (Uzi-Type)? Never heard of any self-ignition there....exept the "falling-down-setoffs"

Well, most SMGs work from an open bolt. That is to say that the weapon is ready to fire when the bolt is "locked" back and the round to be fired is still in the magazine. Pulling the trigger realeases the bolt to move forward, takes the round, champers it ana fires it. The MP5 is a notable exception. Also, most MGs work from an open bolt.

[Lenny]

So...just had a telefone call :D
My mate couldn't find any documents that there was a G11 dilivered to the UK. However he made clear that this whould not mean that there weren't any. After it got clear that neighter the US or the Germans wanted the rifle, H&K tried nearly everything to find a buyer. He thinks that the UK whould have been a very good option and so the rumors about this might even be true. But he also denies the posibility of one ( or even more ) beeing in Tailand.

So please come up with some Pics...this could be the new german scandal ( after the "Give-Everyone-a-VISA" - scandal of our beloved :slap: foreign minister "I-have-beaten-cops-and-lived-with-a-terrorist" - Fischer

Edit: Seen it with my own eyes now...there were G11's in the UK.... beeing compared to SA80, M16 and other rifels.
Shame on me...I've been shure I was right...sorry anyway