This is an outrage

[usa320]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/06/call.suspension.ap/index.html


COLUMBUS, Georgia (AP) -- A high school student was suspended for 10 days for refusing to end a cell phone call with his mother, a soldier serving in Iraq, school officials said.

The 10-day suspension was issued because Kevin Francois was "defiant and disorderly" and was imposed in lieu of an arrest, Spencer High School assistant principal Alfred Parham said.

The confrontation Wednesday began after the 17-year-old junior got a call at lunchtime from his mother, Sgt. 1st Class Monique Bates, who left in January for a one-year tour with the 203rd Forward Support Battalion.

Cell phones are allowed on campus but may not be used during school hours. When a teacher told him to hang up, he refused. He said he told the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom."

Parham said the teen's suspension was based on his reaction to the teacher's request. He said the teen used profanity when taken to the office.

"Kevin got defiant and disorderly," Parham said. "When a kid becomes out of control like that they can either be arrested or suspended for 10 days. Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days."




:fork: :bash: :-*$

liberal school scum.

This kids mother is putting her ass on the line, and all she wants to do is talk to her kid she is risking her life to protect. If i was the kid, i would have taken the arrest instead of the suspension, because chances are, no right thinking police officer would have placed him under arrest, nore would any charges hold up in court.

[usm2b]

that is horsesh8t

[EvanL]

Its hore****. But i bet the kid could have behaved alot better than swearing and all that. That couldn't have helped the situation much at all.

[thalia]

10 days for a phone call and his mother serving in Iraq for her country

......
......
....... :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :|

[Midtown]

thats wrong, total bullcrap

[Roger Rabbit]

From the infomation given then i believe the teacher misjudged the situation. That said what the media reports and what actually happened can be two different things and this report is a mere 210 words.

[ValkXB70]

Yet another case where doing the correct thing and doing the right thing are different.

[usa320]

But i bet the kid could have behaved alot better than swearing and all that

Bull****. Id sear at the dumb faggot too.

[EvanL]

But i bet the kid could have behaved alot better than swearing and all that

Bull****. Id sear at the dumb faggot too.
well u obviously have no more self control than a 14year old!

[instantmilkshake]

If this is true than it sucks! Send the teacher to Iraq!

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I don't know - the woman has to obey the rules laid down by the Army, the kid has to obey the laws laid down by the school. Is this kid more justified in breaking the rules than a kid who hasn't seen her mother who's been in China for 9 months on a contract for IBM? You could probably look at military service as a "better" reason to be away - but the kid doesn't care about that - they just miss their mom. The situation probably could have been handled better none the less.

It also brings up the issue of deciding on military career (and the inevitable lengthy separations) when you have school age children. My wife and I were both active duty at one time, but both got out when we decided on kids - because we realized what could happen & the impact on our kids. Just sayin'...

[Fintin]

a rule is a rule...but like others said, it could have been handled better...

i had a similar thing happen on 9/11...we wernt allowed to have phones in the building...seniors had off campus privileges...so we just took advantage of that and left for a bit to call who we needed...my father was in europe at the time and scheduled to fly home that day

maybe he should have asked permission to step of campus for a bit...that would have meant moving, what 200 feet at most?

[ValkXB70]

The problem I found with this article, is that it does not detail what the kid said or did. For all we know the teacher could have grabbed the phone and disconnected it, in which case I doubt any of us would have remained calm.

[PeterRJG]

Just wondering why his mother never had the smarts to work out time zone differences and ring him at a more appropriate hour. Unless, of course, it was something urgent.

[RS_Leo1A5]

liberal school scum.
What's "liberal" about punishing a kid for a phone call?

I'd rather call this reactionary/conservative.

[ZaakM433]

he wasnt out for 10 days because he talked to his mother on his cellphone...


i think he's out for 10 days because he used profanity in the office...

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Just wondering why his mother never had the smarts to work out time zone differences and ring him at a more appropriate hour. Unless, of course, it was something urgent.

I can't say for sure, but a lot of times you have to take what you can get. I was a commo guy & ran the satellite van - I could (and did) call home 24/7 but other folks had to call when they had the opportunity--

[Frosty]

liberal school scum.
What's "liberal" about punishing a kid for a phone call?

I'd rather call this reactionary/conservative.
Umm yeah, what he said^.

[(_SPETSNAZ_)]

but still the teacher should show a little more respect.but also should the student for going out of control.

[Midav]

From the information given, the teen used profanity when he was taken to the office. Not during the call.

I'd be upset, too. However, being older and more wise, I would have been more eloquent about it.

[Oddbod]

Remember that ALL media articles are produced to make them as "interesting" as possible & to fit with the editors agenda.
I think there may have been errors made by both parties.
The school said the suspension was for his behaviour in the office, not for the refusal to terminate the call.
That the possible alternative to suspension was arrest makes me think the youngster did rather more than use profanities.

[RSK]

Thats OK 10 days of vacation!

Sweet!

[Virus]

But i bet the kid could have behaved alot better than swearing and all that

Bull****. Id sear at the dumb faggot too.
well u obviously have no more self control than a 14year old!


Well we obviously dont know the full story, or what the teacher exactly said. So maybe the teacher said something to instigate it? Or the kid was just a little bit angry /shrug.

[He219]

But i bet the kid could have behaved alot better than swearing and all that

Bull****. Id sear at the dumb faggot too.
Insolence has no place in the chain of command.

Discipline must be maintained to preserve order, regardless of the circumstance for the phone call ...

It doesn't matter what the time and place, always show proper respect for your elders and civic leaders.

[11F5S]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/06/call.suspension.ap/index.html


COLUMBUS, Georgia (AP) -- A high school student was suspended for 10 days for refusing to end a cell phone call with his mother, a soldier serving in Iraq, school officials said.

The 10-day suspension was issued because Kevin Francois was "defiant and disorderly" and was imposed in lieu of an arrest, Spencer High School assistant principal Alfred Parham said.

The confrontation Wednesday began after the 17-year-old junior got a call at lunchtime from his mother, Sgt. 1st Class Monique Bates, who left in January for a one-year tour with the 203rd Forward Support Battalion.

Cell phones are allowed on campus but may not be used during school hours. When a teacher told him to hang up, he refused. He said he told the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom."

Parham said the teen's suspension was based on his reaction to the teacher's request. He said the teen used profanity when taken to the office.

"Kevin got defiant and disorderly," Parham said. "When a kid becomes out of control like that they can either be arrested or suspended for 10 days. Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days."




:fork: :bash: :-*$

liberal school scum.

This kids mother is putting her ass on the line, and all she wants to do is talk to her kid she is risking her life to protect. If i was the kid, i would have taken the arrest instead of the suspension, because chances are, no right thinking police officer would have placed him under arrest, nore would any charges hold up in court.

Liberal!!! :cantbeli: You're a few cards short of a full deck..now go clean the bathroom.

[Midav]

But i bet the kid could have behaved alot better than swearing and all that

Bull****. Id sear at the dumb faggot too.
Insolence has no place in the chain of command.

Discipline must be maintained to preserve order, regardless of the circumstance for the phone call ...

It doesn't matter what the time and place, always show proper respect for your elders and civic leaders.

I agree with you to a point. One should respect ones elders and I have always done so. However, it has also been my personal experience that many abuse their powers.

Not saying it happened here...

I think teachers need to worry more about drugs being trafficked into schools, fights, killings and the like rather than a kid talking on the phone.

[demotivater]

Thats OK 10 days of vacation!

Sweet!
rofl

[usa320]

Insolence has no place in the chain of command.

Discipline must be maintained to preserve order, regardless of the circumstance for the phone call ...

It doesn't matter what the time and place, always show proper respect for your elders and civic leaders.

I wouldnt of consider teachers authority or civic leader by a longshot. I hate people that consider them authority, like the same level as a policeman. Because from alot of the teachers ive come into contact with, they arent really figures worthy of authority. Not to say there arent teachers that deserve respect, cause there are. But i also know alot of teachers that dont deserve any more respect that the crackhead working at the McDonalds drivethrough...

[He219]

I wouldnt of consider teachers authority or civic leader by a longshot. I hate people that consider them authority, like the same level as a policeman. Because from alot of the teachers ive come into contact with, they arent really figures worthy of authority. Not to say there arent teachers that deserve respect, cause there are. But i also know alot of teachers that dont deserve any more respect that the crackhead working at the McDonalds drivethrough...
Teachers and School Administrators are the authority in their domain.
Does this mean that you also hate me?
;)

Respect may be earned, yet discipline is a code of conduct to maintain order regardless of one's personal convictions.

Give unto Cesar what belongs to Cesar....give unto God that which belongs to Him.

[JTAR7242]

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/11575912.htm


Mother's call gets son in hot water

BY ANGELIQUE SOENARIE

Staff Writer


Kevin Francois gave up his lunch break to talk to his mother, but it ended up costing him the rest of the school year.

Francois, a junior at Spencer High School in Columbus, was suspended for disorderly conduct Wednesday after he was told to give up his cell phone at lunch while talking to his mother who is deployed in Iraq, he said.

His mother, Sgt. 1st Class Monique Bates, left in January for a one-year tour and serves with the 203rd Forward Support Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division.

"This is our first time separated like this," said Francois, 17, on Thursday.

Bates came to Fort Benning with her son from Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah, Ga. She enrolled him at Spencer in August. Since her deployment overseas, Francois, whose father was killed when he was 5 years old, lives with a guardian who has five children in Columbus.

The incident happened when Francois received a call from his mother at 12:30 p.m., which he said was his lunch break. Francois said he went outside the school building to get a better reception when his mother called. A teacher who saw Francois on his phone told him to get off the phone. But he didn't.

According to the Muscogee County School District Board of Education's policy, students are allowed to have cell phones in school, but cannot use them during school hours.

"They are really allowed to have those cell phones so that after band or after chorus or after the debate and practices are over they have to coordinate with the parents," said Alfred Parham, assistant principal at Spencer. "They're not supposed to use them for conversating back and forth during school because if they were allowed to do that, they could be text messaging each other for test questions."

Francois said he told the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom."

Francois said the .teacher tried to take the phone, causing it to hang up.

The student said he then went with the teacher to the school's office where he surrendered his phone. His mother called again at 12:37 p.m. and left a message scolding her son about hanging up and telling him to answer the phone when she calls.

Control issue

Parham said the teen's suspension was based on his reaction when he was asked to give up the cell phone and told about the school's cell phone policy.

"Kevin got defiant and disorderly with Mr. Turner and another assistant principal," Parham said Thursday. "He got defiant with me. He refused to leave Mr. Turner's office. When a kid becomes out of control like that they can either be arrested or suspended for 10 days. Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days."

Wendall Turner is another assistant principal at Spencer.

Parham said the student used profanity when he was taken into the office. He said he tried to work out something with the student. But Francois said he was too frustrated he couldn't answer the phone when his mother called him the second time.

"I even asked Kevin, 'You know we can try to work something out to where if your mother wants to call you she can call you at the school,'" Parham said. "So we've tried to work with Kevin and we're going to continue to try to work with Kevin and his mother and his relatives. In the course of good order and discipline, we have to abide by our policy."

Francois admitted he was partially at fault for his behavior but said he should have been allowed to talk to his mother.

"I was mad at the time, but I feel now maybe I should've went about it differently," he said. "Maybe I should've just waited outside to pick up the phone. But I don't I feel I should've changed any of my actions. I feel I was right by not hanging up the phone."

For Francois, he said he gets to hear from his mother once a month, and phone calls vary depending on when she can use the phone in Iraq. Francois said his mother calls as late as 1 a.m. to 3 a.m. and tries to catch him during hours he's awake. He said the phone call Wednesday was the first time she called him while he was at school.

Francois, who said he's been struggling with his grades in school, wants to go back to school and finish the rest of his year. He fears he may have pay for summer school because of his punishment.

"My grades had been low, but I was bringing them up. My grades were coming back up. On one of my report cards I had like a 'F' in one of my classes, but I brought it back up to a low 'C.' This just brought me all the way down."


Yes, you absolutely can make judgement calls. People thinking like this are why five year olds with plastic scissors get expelled. It makes me sick.

Zero Tolerance = Zero Intelligence

There's absolutely no way the school can be right in this situation, I don't care what the situation or circumstances of his using profanity was. If my mother or father was in Iraq and they called me I'd tell them to go to hell too. And if it was my kid on the phone with me in Iraq and the school did this to him I can tell you the first place I'd be when I got back. The teacher should be suspended and the school needs to issue this kid a formal apology.

That's the bottom line.

[AOCBravo2004]

I'm not sure what the laws on the books for Georgia are, but the teacher can be charged with Assault & Battery unless Georgia is a state that recognizes Assault as both. The cellphone at the time was a physical part of the student and the teacher tried to physically remove the phone from the student. Some say the student could have handled the situation differently, well the teacher sure as heck could have handled it different. If I were the student I wouldn't have left the principal's office either, I'd be letting them know the situation, and would have played them the voicemail left by the mother. From reading the 2nd article the cellphone policy is in place for text messaging, which the student obviously was not doing, would be a rather stupid way of communicating answers to test verbally over a phone don't ya think. Sounds like the teacher and the administration need to practice a little more common sense.

[JTAR7242]

orutledge@mcsdga.net
aparham@mcsdga.net

Email addresses of both the Principal and Assistant Principal.

http://www.mcsdga.net/schools/high/spencer.html

Though I feel it may be a mistake posting these here. If you do send something, make sure it is intelligent and civil. Angry words and insults accomplish nothing.

[Bryson C]

Thats OK 10 days of vacation!

Sweet!
rofl

Yeah look on the bright side, and Spring is here.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Rules are rules. He broke them he sufferes the consequences.

[usa320]

Rules are rules. He broke them he sufferes the consequences.

whats right is whats right. The school did what was correct, not what was right, and they are assholes because of it.

[Argyll]

Some people need to stop using Iraq is an excuse for everything,there are Military personnel all over the world who are doing their duty,Iraq is just another place,what's the difference between Iraq,A-Stan and Bosnia?

All are Operational Tours of duty are they not?


The mother chose to serve,nobody forced her,the son at 17 should have shown a level of maturity instead of behaving like a spoilt brat.He should have been man enough to apologise,explain the situation to the principal,rationally and come to an agreement.........Iraq or being in Iraq should never be used to gain favours,those who serve know their duty,and most do so in the knowing they could,or lately more likely find themselves in Iraq serving their country,doing their duties.

Do you think the veterans of WW2 acted any differently when they were dying in their thousands daily?................or the veterans of Vietnam?


The situation was handled badly,but surely school/education is the foundation for discipline and self control,they have rules just like the military,what if the roles were reversed and the kid phoned his Mother,who was on the BIAP road,do you think the military would allow her to take the call when she was supposed to be on watch?

Iraq should never be used as an excuse from any parties,serving soldiers are there doing their duty,their CIC chose to go to war,if anyone is to blame for this incident then he ultimately is.

Did the Vietnam vets get the same kid glove,fanfare,red carpet treatment that seems to be expected of those serving in Iraq..........hell no they were treated like criminals and cold blooded killers for the best part...................ease up on the Iraq thing,US soldiers have served in conflicts for decades,this one should be treated no different...........the only difference with this one is they don't know who's the enemy!!

[JTAR7242]

Rules are bent all the time in real life.

Zero tolerance has no place in schools, nor in society. These are not life and death situations like the military, and strict unbending rules are not needed.

What we needs is rational thought and action. There is no threat to good order and discipline in the school to make exceptions in exceptional cases.

The student did identify the person he was talking to. The school has no right to restrict a parent's access to their child in any way. They are entrusted by the parents to further the education of their child, not supercede their parental authority. Then when the situation became clear, and the parent called a second time, the principal refused to allow the student to recieve the call, even with the identity of the caller being very plain.

That is a clear violation of the school's authority, knowingly refusing a parent the ability to speak with their child. I'm sorry, but there is no defense for their actions. The first teacher was out of line for assaulting the student, the school officials were wrong for refusing the child the ability to take the call from his parent. Both of these factors clearly, and far outstrip any factor of the child's understandably negative reaction to having his phone taken away when in the midst of speaking to his parent.

No excuses, no rationalizations. The school is in the wrong. Absolutely and unequivocally.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

The mother should of phone the school to ask to speak to her son.

Not ring the kid up on his mobile phone in class

[Aerosoul]

I'm sure she had the school's phone number at hand...?

[JTAR7242]

The mother should of phone the school to ask to speak to her son.

Not ring the kid up on his mobile phone in class
Do you understand what Iraq is?

It's not an electronics convention in Southern California.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

It's not the point.

If I was a teacher and some kid's mobile started ringing, no matter who was on the phone I'd be mighty pissed off. There is 20-30 other students that your trying to teach you know.

[JTAR7242]

During lunch?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Cell phones are allowed on campus but may not be used during school hours

Phone should of been confiscated. No ifs no buts

[Argyll]

The mother should of phone the school to ask to speak to her son.

Not ring the kid up on his mobile phone in class
Do you understand what Iraq is?

That would be a country in the Middle East? ;)

It's not an electronics convention in Southern California.


you're kidding me right?...................it's like mobile city out here,every new GI coming in buys a local mobile,getting ripped of into the bargain,no idea's whether the phones are secure or not,no idea if they're converstions are being monitored by the bad guys.........it is like an electronics convention mate!!!

Silencer wrote

I'm sure she had the school's phone number at hand...?

Erm why not?,I have both my kids school numbers on my phones,same as the school has mine,it's only a mobile phone I carry world wide,not a phone booth that only stays in the one place!!


Zero tolerance has no place in schools, nor in society. These are not life and death situations like the military, and strict unbending rules are not needed.

So by your definition Driving Under the Influence of Alchahol/Drugs is perfectly acceptable?

Punching your wife in the face because she put the eggs Sunny side down is acceptable?

Surely Zero tolerance is there for a reason?

Swharzenegger bans gay marraige because of Zero Tolerrance?

Acceptable?

Driving your car without Insurance?

Accetable?

Zero Tollerance in the Military is there for what purpose?

The list is endless mate.......Why did this kid not go to the principal the minute his mother deployed,explained to where,explained the time difference,and ask for dispensation in recieving/making call's.....would that have not been better,even better still,the Mother talking to the Governing bodies and Principals herself before deploying?......I'm certain she would have ha to talk to a lot of people before deploying,15 mins of her time to allow the rules to be "bent" due to her circumstances?

[DarkCypher]

For **** sake, people are condemning the kid and for what?

This was during lunchtime and out of the classroom. It's most likely the mother knew that and instead called his cell phone. If the Teacher hadn't gone over and become confrontational this would never have happened and basing an argument on an article which doesn’t have the full story is sad and pathetic.

[obd]

He didnt get ten days for talking to his mother on the phone for christs sake.......you guys are just interpreting it that way because you want to.......

He got ten days because when the teacher told him the rules he cursed at her which he had no right to do............The teacher had no way of knowing who he was talking to........and 99.99999% of kids in high school using cell phones are talking to thier friends, hitting up some chick, or making drug deals..............so the teacher was not wrong to inform him of the rules when she saw him talking on the phone.

If the kid had simply been polite about it without throwing a bitch fit at the teacher immediately then NOTHING would have happened............

The REASON schools have no cell phone policies is not to prevent kids from talking to soldiers for christs sake.....its because most high school kids that have cell phones just bring them to school to hit up chicks, keep in touch with thier friends, and deal drugs. They disrupt classes and help spread drugs and violence. A no cell phone policy is a GOOD thing 99.9% of the time. Its not like they dont let the kids bring them either.....they still have them in case of emergency or for special cases like your mother calling from Iraq..............

The kid got suspended because he broke the line of authority..............If he had simply said "Hey, Im talking to my mom in Iraq and not one of my buddies, this is an important call so please give me some privacy" then there would not have been a problem. Instead he cursed at her...........and created the problem.

jeezus.

[JTAR7242]

Surely Zero tolerance is there for a reason?
I believe you do not understand the concept of Zero Tolerance based on the completely false analogies you presented.


The list is endless mate.......Why did this kid not go to the principal the minute his mother deployed,explained to where,explained the time difference,and ask for dispensation in recieving/making call's.....would that have not been better,even better still,the Mother talking to the Governing bodies and Principals herself before deploying?......I'm certain she would have ha to talk to a lot of people before deploying,15 mins of her time to allow the rules to be "bent" due to her circumstances?[/color]
How do we know the school was not aware of her deployment. I'd be willing to bet they were notified.

You're taking this discussion outside the realm of its relevance. Speculation is pointless on these things. I don't believe the mother would have thought anything like this would happen, I don't believe in a sane would she should have to make special arrangements to talk to her own son. The school is wrong, you are wrong.

[JTAR7242]

The kid got suspended because he broke the line of authority..............If he had simply said "Hey, Im talking to my mom in Iraq and not one of my buddies, this is an important call so please give me some privacy" then there would not have been a problem. Instead he cursed at her...........and created the problem.

All that **** talking about not reading and misinterpreting and you did the same thing. Again I refer you back to the self-describing avatar you display.

He didn't curse at the teacher when he was asked who he was talking to, he only used profanity after being taken to the principal's office, after his phone was confiscated and they refused to let him answer a return call from his mother.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

He got his phone confiscated because he broke the rules!

The kid is nothing more then a jack ass.

[Secret Squirrel]

Serves the kid right. The school has a policy, and they followed that policy. The kid broke that policy and compounded his mistakes. Any special treatment will only result in other kids complaining and trying to bend and twist the rules to their advantage.

[Argyll]

Surely Zero tolerance is there for a reason?
I believe you do not understand the concept of Zero Tolerance based on the completely false analogies you presented.

obviously not...........so enlighten me?

The list is endless mate.......Why did this kid not go to the principal the minute his mother deployed,explained to where,explained the time difference,and ask for dispensation in recieving/making call's.....would that have not been better,even better still,the Mother talking to the Governing bodies and Principals herself before deploying?......I'm certain she would have ha to talk to a lot of people before deploying,15 mins of her time to allow the rules to be "bent" due to her circumstances?[/color]
How do we know the school was not aware of her deployment. I'd be willing to bet they were notified.

Then she would have been aware of this zero tolerance policy about the use of mobile phones then?

You're taking this discussion outside the realm of its relevance.

What exactly is the relevance?

If I'm taking it out,so are you,becasue you are not in that school,are you not bound by rules,and zero tollerance procedure in your current situation?.........what right do you have to interject in an education departments policies?The school has a no mobile use policy,why is that too difficult for you to take in?

Speculation is pointless on these things. I don't believe the mother would have thought anything like this would happen, I don't believe in a sane would she should have to make special arrangements to talk to her own son.
And are you not speculating ?Are you aware and familiar with the entire episode,including every single word spoken by ALL parties?
The school is wrong, you are wrong.

The school cannot be wrong if it's enforcing it's policies,or am I missing something here?

If I said black you'd say white anyway!! ;)

[JTAR7242]

Yeah, and schools in the South in the 60's wouldn't allow black children to go to white schools.



But they must have been right because they were enforcing the policy.

[Secret Squirrel]

Yeah, and schools in the South in the 60's wouldn't allow black children to go to white schools.



But they must have been right because they were enforcing the policy.

What the **** does a racial issue that seperated children have to do with a present day policy that attempts to impose equal status to everyone? Christ, think before you post.

[JTAR7242]

Yeah, and schools in the South in the 60's wouldn't allow black children to go to white schools.



But they must have been right because they were enforcing the policy.

What the f*** does a racial issue that seperated children have to do with a present day policy that attempts to impose equal status to everyone? Christ, think before you post.
Yeah, you're missing the whole point about how the school is not automatically right just because it is enforcing its policy.

All men are not created equal, and not all situations can be answered with a single blanket statement. Exceptions exist for a reason, and to pretend like they don't is the height of ignorance.

I implore you to think before you post.

[Secret Squirrel]

Yeah, and schools in the South in the 60's wouldn't allow black children to go to white schools.



But they must have been right because they were enforcing the policy.

What the f*** does a racial issue that seperated children have to do with a present day policy that attempts to impose equal status to everyone? Christ, think before you post.
Yeah, you're missing the whole point about how the school is not automatically right just because it is enforcing its policy.

All men are not created equal, and not all situations can be answered with a single blanket statement. Exceptions exist for a reason, and to pretend like they don't is the height of ignorance.

I implore you to think before you post.

You posted something which contradicted your previous arguments. You seem to have issues with a policy that treats all students the same. ;)

[JTAR7242]

This isn't about equal opportunity. We aren't discriminating against other kids by making an exception in an exceptional case.

It is rigid, backwards thinking like yours that brings about idiotic policies like Zero Tolerance.

[Argyll]

As opposed to 3 strikes and your out Policy under George W Bush?


zero tolerance policies allow for absolutely no levels of tolerance or compromise for violators of the law in question. Punishment under such policies is unwaveringly severe.


Harsh,but did this adolescent know the rule of his school or not?

Did he abide by the same policies up until that day?

Was the mother fcucking stupid to not realise the same policies when she called?

Why didn't she call after school hours?

Did she make a habit of this?

Why didn't she phone the school,speak to the principal,who could have arranged the call to be taken in private?


JTAR,when some young LT fresh from the academy gives you an order,do you obey it,or disregard it,no matter how stupid it is?

Do you carry it out or question it?

Sounds like you don't care much for any type of authority?

[Secret Squirrel]

This isn't about equal opportunity. We aren't discriminating against other kids by making an exception in an exceptional case.

It is rigid, backwards thinking like yours that brings about idiotic policies like Zero Tolerance.

No its not about equal opportunity, but it is about equal treatment. ;) Maybe you'll understand when you're older.

[JTAR7242]

I think I am old enough to have coherent thought processes and think for myself.


Equal treatment is a lie and inapplicable to real life.


We have wheelchair ramps do we not? If we were to treat those in wheelchairs equally, they'd have to make their way up the stairs and like it.

[digrar]

Looks like a massive balls up, the stress of his mothers deployment probably exacerbated the young blokes reaction and the teachers have been heavy handed in their initial response (before it got to the VP office).
The rule of 6 Ps applies here, a bit of prior preperation could have avoided the whole incident.
The kid doesn't need the added stress, the school doesn't need to look like insensitive over bearing ass hats and the mother certainly doesn't need this sort of crap going on back at home when her priorities need to be on the people in her unit.

[Secret Squirrel]

I think I am old enough to have coherent thought processes and think for myself.

Apparently not old enough not to repeat yourself in the same sentence. ;)



Equal treatment is a lie and inapplicable to real life.

If all students are restricted to the same cell phone use, then it's equal treatment. Is that too complicated for you to understand?



We have wheelchair ramps do we not? If we were to treat those in wheelchairs equally, they'd have to make their way up the stairs and like it.

please try to stick to the issue and not attempt any more poorly chosen examples. The whole issue is 1) did the kid know the cell phone policy? yes; 2) did he break it? yes; 3)did he conduct himself in a proper fashion after being informed of the policy? no.

[Argyll]

I think I am old enough to have coherent thought processes and think for myself.


Equal treatment is a lie and inapplicable to real life.


We have wheelchair ramps do we not? If we were to treat those in wheelchairs equally, they'd have to make their way up the stairs and like it.


:roll:

All men are equal,it's just some are more equal than others p-)

Using a person with a disability is hardly relevant to this topic,is this not what you accused me of a few posts back?

Why is having a mother in Iraq an exceptional case?

Would the same courtesy be extended to another pupil if his mother was in Bosnia?

[JTAR7242]

Equal treatment is a lie and inapplicable to real life.If all students are restricted to the same cell phone use, then it's equal treatment. Is that too complicated for you to understand?What you still fail to understand, pithy comments about syntax aside, is that I understand that the policy is equal treatment. You also fail to understand that I am saying that policy is wrong.


We have wheelchair ramps do we not? If we were to treat those in wheelchairs equally, they'd have to make their way up the stairs and like it.please try to stick to the issue and not attempt any more poorly chosen examples. The whole issue is 1) did the kid know the cell phone policy? yes; 2) did he break it? yes; 3)did he conduct himself in a proper fashion after being informed of the policy? no.[/quote]
It is not irrelevant, he said that equal treatment is the important factor in this case. Equal treatment is not important here.

The example of the wheelchair shows that sometimes it is acceptable to treat people differently. This is just such a case.

Why do you continue to bring up Bosnia like it is any different than Iraq Argyll? If the mother's access to phone is just as intermittant as it is in Iraq, the situation is no different.


The bottom line of my argument, which you have missed over, and over and over, is that the school has no right to deny a parent access to their child, and their manner of handling this case was highly inappropriate. The restricted phone policy exists for a reason, and that reason is a valid one. The policy also should allow for parents to communicate with their child in a reasonable manner. This call was just such a reasonable manner. No disruption was occuring to the learning process. Every other child at that school deserves the same treatment in the similar circumstances. This isn't about special treatment for this particular kid, it is about special treatment in special circumstances.

[Secret Squirrel]

Equal treatment is a lie and inapplicable to real life.If all students are restricted to the same cell phone use, then it's equal treatment. Is that too complicated for you to understand?What you still fail to understand, pithy comments about syntax aside, is that I understand that the policy is equal treatment. You also fail to understand that I am saying that policy is wrong.

I know you think it's wrong, but it's there and this student, whos "sentence" has been reduced to three days, paid for his actions because of the policy. If you want to change it, move there and enter the wonderful world of politics. ;)


The bottom line of my argument, which you have missed over, and over and over, is that the school has no right to deny a parent access to their child, and their manner of handling this case was highly inappropriate. The restricted phone policy exists for a reason, and that reason is a valid one. The policy also should allow for parents to communicate with their child in a reasonable manner. This call was just such a reasonable manner. No disruption was occuring to the learning process. Every other child at that school deserves the same treatment in the similar circumstances. This isn't about special treatment for this particular kid, it is about special treatment in special circumstances.

I havent missed your arguement, I just believe it's ****. ;) This whole problem could have been avoided if the mother had called the school instead of his cell phone. If he was allowed to accept the call on his cell phone, other students would complain and want the same rights. And that just opens up a whole new can of problems to deal with.


There are many students at the school who have parents serving overseas, Turner said.

"We are the school that serves Fort Benning," Turner said. "We're well aware of students with parents overseas. Some will just call the school if they want to talk to their sons or daughters. We'll gladly get the kid out of class."

link (http://www.accessnorthga.com/news/ap_newfullstory.asp?ID=60401)

[Argyll]

I've brought up Bosnaia mate,because you seem to think Iraq is like another planet.........it's a country in which the United States and it's Coalition decided it would go to war in...........accept this........People tend to make out Iraq is like Dante's inferno,sometimes it is,sometims it isn't,it isn't like WW2 or Veitnam where combat and hostilities are lengthy and open every day,sure there are firefights and the IED's ,mortars ,incoming rockets,Suicide bombers ,but other than that it's just another hot fcuking place where they don't speak good english.........am I sounding blase about Iraq..........indeed I'm meaning to,because within Iraq there are Camps and establishments that could easily be in Arizona,they're that quiet,where NOTHING ever happens,where heat exhaustion is more of a danger than the insurgency.......these place enjoy a level of normality about them...........the nearest those people who never leave camp get to combat is actually writing it down!!!!

The Northern Regions with places like Dahuk enjoy relevant comfort,as do places like Bucca in the South......maybe this kids Mom is in Baghdad or someplace where the level of danger is high,but maybe she's also in a place where RSI is a bigger threat than a VBIED!!!

Like I said,the Vietnam vets didn't get pampered and special privaleges,like the current deployments to Iraq,yes Iraq is a dangerous place,but so's trying to cross the Freeway at night!!!

[obd]

The kid got taken to the principles office for a reason.......because he gave the teacher ****......maybe he didnt curse at her but he got aggresively emotional towards her instead of acting like a gentlemen and calmly explaining this to his teacher................

Just because your parent(s) are in Iraq it doesnt give you a blanket excuse to act like an ass, walk all over authority, and blatantly break the rules without consequence. The school suspended him for a specific reason----> Because he cursed in the office and because of his disrespectfull attitude towards the teacher which got him taken to the office in the forst place.....................I see nowhere in the schools list of reasons "because he was talking to his mother in Iraq".

End of story.


Personally I would not have suspended the kid. I would have demanded an apology instead. That being said, the school is still well within its rights to suspend him. Its just a simple case where I wouldnt do it myself but I still support the right of the school to do so...........kinda the same as smoking or hooking up with a prostitute..........

[JTAR7242]

There are many students at the school who have parents serving overseas, Turner said.

"We are the school that serves Fort Benning," Turner said. "We're well aware of students with parents overseas. Some will just call the school if they want to talk to their sons or daughters. We'll gladly get the kid out of class."

link (http://www.accessnorthga.com/news/ap_newfullstory.asp?ID=60401)
So this is a school that serves Fort Benning and they still made this kind of mistake?

Sounds like somebody got a call from someone on the base. Funny how his suspension gets "reduced" to three days, which is time served huh?

This is basically the "face saving" way to not have to admit being wrong, and still fixing the situation. Hate to say it, but this all but proves I was right the whole time.

[Argyll]

how do you figure out that one?

Did he still face a suspension?........if yes then you were WRONG!!!!

A Benning school that is aware of overseas parents,obviously of whom knew about the zero tolerance policy........and seeing as people from Benning have been in and out of Iraq for what 2 years,and this is the first incident,I'd say the Policy worked quite well,and that pupils and teachers alike didn't have a problem with it(it's enforcement)

Maybe you didn't read the bold part of your link about parents calling the school,and their reply to it.

You were not right..........far from it

[martinexsquaddie]

everyone covered themselves in glory with this one not :(
the teacher over reacted so the kid did too and then the principal became a hardass and made himself look foolish when the media caught up with him result embarrsing climbdown :(

[henksmoeder]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/06/call.suspension.ap/index.html




"Kevin got defiant and disorderly," Parham said. "When a kid becomes out of control like that they can either be arrested or suspended for 10 days. Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days."






Geez, am I the only one who thinks that's strange? He got defient and disorderly, so let's arrest someone :lol: . Only in......

[11F5S]

The bottom line of my argument, which you have missed over, and over and over, is that the school has no right to deny a parent access to their child, and their manner of handling this case was highly inappropriate. The restricted phone policy exists for a reason, and that reason is a valid one. The policy also should allow for parents to communicate with their child in a reasonable manner. This call was just such a reasonable manner. No disruption was occuring to the learning process. Every other child at that school deserves the same treatment in the similar circumstances. This isn't about special treatment for this particular kid, it is about special treatment in special circumstances.

If you took the time to learn the fact before engaging your keyboard you would know that school policy does allow for calls from parents in the military overseas...all that is required is thet the student get permission from the administration...the youngman in this case did not do that.

It doesn't matter that the education process was or wasn't disrupted...the fact is there were rules inplace that treated everyone equally and the boy chose not to follow them. He has a history of behavioral problem at the school. All he had to do was get permission, but apparently he feels that rules don't apply to him.

His mother is also part of the problem since she didn't bother to see what the school policies were and see to it that her son got permission....Both mother and son seem to feel that rules don't apply to them. As the say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

This is about special treatment for this kid...he thinks he's special and rules apply to everyone but him.

IMO the school was right in suspending him for his behavior....cursing at teachers and/or administrators or acting in a defiant /unruly manner should not be tolerated.

If I was incharge of school policy cellphones and pagers would not be allowed in school period. The school is there for education and cellphones and pagers are nothing more than a distraction; they don't serve any educational purpose for a student.

[JTAR7242]

Did he still face a suspension?........if yes then you were WRONG!!!!Considering he had already served three days of suspension when it was reduced to three, I think a bit of reading between the lines is in order.

Last I checked time travel was still a staple of science fiction, not reality; they cannot repeal the three days he already missed.


If you took the time to learn the fact before engaging your keyboard you would know that school policy does allow for calls from parents in the military overseas...all that is required is thet the student get permission from the administration...the youngman in this case did not do that.
If you took time to read what I have said repeatedly before engaging your keyboard, you would know that I'm not disputing that he was breaking school policy, I am saying the policy is wrong.

Of course I said that, in the post you quoted even Tsk tsk.

[Ichhabe]

I know that I, unless I was laying out in the field mortaly wounded (to say good bye)((God forbid that to ever happen :D )), would never call my child at school. The mother could have waited untill the son was home from school.
Havent she learned that the head contain a brain that is made to think out good solutions?

[JTAR7242]

Is critical thinking and reading comprehension not taught in Scandinavia?

[California Joe]

You need to shut the hell up. Seriously, 11F5S just explained to you why you're arguement is seriously flawed and overly emotional and completely without merit and you just don't want to listen. Did you or do you get in trouble at school by any chance? You seem to be taking this very personally. Are you this kid?

And usa320 shines again in his judgement that because it was a teacher they MUST be liberal even when their response was uncompromisingly conservative in favor of the rules.

[Ichhabe]

Is critical thinking and reading comprehension not taught in Scandinavia?

Is not having respect for authorities learned up in the upper parts of the Appalachian mountains where it seems that you strawled shoeless and happy without a care in the world to your hillbilly school???

[von_Moo142]

The outrage is that this is news.

Generally, mobile phones have no place in the classroom*. They are detrimental for the whole class. One can envisage situations where they perhaps should be allowed**, and this might be one of them (as the school rules suggest, in fact). This kid should have obtained permission to use his phone in class though, and could have handled the situation better.

The school might also have handled the situation better, although if schools in the US are anything like those here then I can understand why they resorted to the perscribed solution.

The mother should know better. There are more personal and non-intrusive methods of communication for families with a parent in the military, which would seem better suited if communication must occur
during school hours: Whatever happend to snail-mail or e-mail?


* I would recommend anyone arguing otherwise to see first hand what a destructive influence these things can be. For clairity, I don't mean from the POV of a whiney teenager.

I don't think that parents should let their kids take mobiles to school at all, but since they are another device that allows them to be more distanced in their childcare I doubt we will ever see this reflected in popular attitude.


** Although generally the school should be contacted in such cases, IMO.

[CountZero]

The outrage is that this is news.

Generally, mobile phones have no place in the classroom*. They are detrimental for the whole class. One can envisage situations where they perhaps should be allowed**, and this might be one of them (as the school rules suggest, in fact). This kid should have obtained permission to use his phone in class though, and could have handled the situation better.

The school might also have handled the situation better, although if schools in the US are anything like those here then I can understand why they resorted to the perscribed solution.

The mother should know better. There are more personal and non-intrusive methods of communication for families with a parent in the military, which would seem better suited if communication must occur
during school hours: Whatever happend to snail-mail or e-mail?


* I would recommend anyone arguing otherwise to see first hand what a destructive influence these things can be. For clairity, I don't mean from the POV of a whiney teenager.

I don't think that parents should let their kids take mobiles to school at all, but since they are another device that allows them to be more distanced in their childcare I doubt we will ever see this reflected in popular attitude.


** Although generally the school should be contacted in such cases, IMO.

ok the only thing that your view and the article disagree on is that you mention the disruptive influence of cell phones in class ( which i agree with), but the article states that this was during lunchour therefore there would be no disruption in class would it?

[von_Moo142]

The outrage is that this is news.

Generally, mobile phones have no place in the classroom*. They are detrimental for the whole class. One can envisage situations where they perhaps should be allowed**, and this might be one of them (as the school rules suggest, in fact). This kid should have obtained permission to use his phone in class though, and could have handled the situation better.

The school might also have handled the situation better, although if schools in the US are anything like those here then I can understand why they resorted to the perscribed solution.

The mother should know better. There are more personal and non-intrusive methods of communication for families with a parent in the military, which would seem better suited if communication must occur
during school hours: Whatever happend to snail-mail or e-mail?


* I would recommend anyone arguing otherwise to see first hand what a destructive influence these things can be. For clairity, I don't mean from the POV of a whiney teenager.

I don't think that parents should let their kids take mobiles to school at all, but since they are another device that allows them to be more distanced in their childcare I doubt we will ever see this reflected in popular attitude.


** Although generally the school should be contacted in such cases, IMO.

ok the only thing that your view and the article disagree on is that you mention the disruptive influence of cell phones in class ( which i agree with), but the article states that this was during lunchour therefore there would be no disruption in class would it?

You're right, of course.

But it's not too hard for us to understand why a school might not allow the use of mobiles during lunchtime as well as during class hours, unless the vast majority of kids show that they can use them in a responsible manner (which will never happen). I realise this makes me sound like a miserable old bastard, however ;-)

[JTAR7242]

You need to shut the hell up. Seriously, 11F5S just explained to you why you're arguement is seriously flawed and overly emotional and completely without merit and you just don't want to listen. Did you or do you get in trouble at school by any chance? You seem to be taking this very personally. Are you this kid?
He didn't explain anything.

The only lack of understanding is that none of them seem to understand that I understand the nature of the policy, but that I DISAGREE WITH IT. What more is there to explain? Nobody here has said anything to change my opinion on this issue, instead they seem to want to try and explain it a different way, only for me to shoot it down again when I tell them that I think the policy is wrong.

I understand you're a moderator, but endorsing their opinion over mine really solves nothing. The issue will stay that they believe the school's no phone/no exception policy is right, and I (among many others less vocal) believe that policy is wrong.

Your stance that my argument is completely without merit is your own, though I believe I have presented far better support for my side of the argument while they have simply repeated that the kid was a foul mouthed troublemaker (more or less unsubstantiated beyond this incident) and that I don't understand that the school was enforcing the policy of equal treatment (when the lack of situational understanding is completely their own).

I was not a troublemaker in school as you have suggested, and I don't believe this kid was a troublemaker either. To me, he is the victim here, not the poor mistreated school staff that had to endure his baseless tirade. I have taken nothing here personally. I simply refuse to bow down to their childish insults at my intelligence when they fail to even grasp the basic concept of my argument. It is fine if they don't agree with me, but to attack me as a person and attack me intellectually (where they will never hope to be my equals) with baseless tripe.

This discussion has obviously gone well past its usefulness and neither side is going to convince the other of their viewpoint. But the court of public opinion has sided with me, so I think the accusation that my stance has no merit... has no merit. I'm done here, this argument has reached an impasse.

[Nawlins]

College is so much cooler.

When my husband was in A-stan I always kept my phone with me (on vibrate in class), because I knew that he wouldn't have a ton of opportunities to call and I didn't want to miss any of them. I told all my professors about this. When that phone went off, I didn't care if I was in an exam, I would jump up and leave the classroom to answer it. Aside from some gentle ribbing, my profs never even mentioned it. They knew I was a good student, and they knew I had a good reason for doing that.

I have nothing to contribute to the argument. I think this thread has gotten a little out of hand. The kid overreacted, the teacher overreacted... it could have been handled better. That's all.

[California Joe]

You need to shut the hell up. Seriously, 11F5S just explained to you why you're arguement is seriously flawed and overly emotional and completely without merit and you just don't want to listen. Did you or do you get in trouble at school by any chance? You seem to be taking this very personally. Are you this kid?
He didn't explain anything.

The only lack of understanding is that none of them seem to understand that I understand the nature of the policy, but that I DISAGREE WITH IT. What more is there to explain? Nobody here has said anything to change my opinion on this issue, instead they seem to want to try and explain it a different way, only for me to shoot it down again when I tell them that I think the policy is wrong.

I understand you're a moderator, but endorsing their opinion over mine really solves nothing. The issue will stay that they believe the school's no phone/no exception policy is right, and I (among many others less vocal) believe that policy is wrong.

Your stance that my argument is completely without merit is your own, though I believe I have presented far better support for my side of the argument while they have simply repeated that the kid was a foul mouthed troublemaker (more or less unsubstantiated beyond this incident) and that I don't understand that the school was enforcing the policy of equal treatment (when the lack of situational understanding is completely their own).

I was not a troublemaker in school as you have suggested, and I don't believe this kid was a troublemaker either. To me, he is the victim here, not the poor mistreated school staff that had to endure his baseless tirade. I have taken nothing here personally. I simply refuse to bow down to their childish insults at my intelligence when they fail to even grasp the basic concept of my argument. It is fine if they don't agree with me, but to attack me as a person and attack me intellectually (where they will never hope to be my equals) with baseless tripe.

This discussion has obviously gone well past its usefulness and neither side is going to convince the other of their viewpoint. But the court of public opinion has sided with me, so I think the accusation that my stance has no merit... has no merit. I'm done here, this argument has reached an impasse.

Simmah don nah, the fact that you don't agree with their school policy doesn't change the fact that it is indeed policy. School policy is law at school. That there were methods in place for this boy to talk to his Mom and that they weren't used. I think personally that the teacher was being a hardass because the kid had probably given him reason in the past. The teacher over reacted I think but he was within the rules. There's probably a history there. Of course in hindsight I bet the teacher wishes he'd just let the kid take the call but what about the next time a kid wants to take a call? Now one of these days you can join the damned school board and make policy like that. But that's what it's going to take. And I'm old and had to wear a tie everyday to school and nobody had a frigging cell phone and we all managed to make it through the day. He'll live.

[Nawlins]

School policy is law at school.

True, but you gotta admit some school policies are pretty damn stupid.

[California Joe]

Sure. And if you'd asked me about the school rules against drinking at my college 4 days after I'd arrived and nearly got kicked out I'd have agreed wholeheartedly....... p-)

[CountZero]

Good point there. Some school policies could be more lenient. In this particular case I think the school would be wise to make an exception for those kinds of calls because frankly (god forbid) that could be the last call he gets. I know that this is going into the ralm of speculation, but a realistic scenarion notheless due to the fact that she is in a warzone.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Would we be even having this argument if the kids mother was NOT in Iraq?

[CountZero]

maybe. A warzone is a warzone

[Argyll]

maybe. A warzone is a warzone

It's no longer a warzone according to the British Government! ;)

The school already has a dispensation for "overseas" parents,or did you not bother reading that part?

[11F5S]

Good point there. Some school policies could be more lenient. In this particular case I think the school would be wise to make an exception for those kinds of calls because frankly (god forbid) that could be the last call he gets. I know that this is going into the ralm of speculation, but a realistic scenarion notheless due to the fact that she is in a warzone.

1. Extract head from ass.

2. Learn the facts of the case.

3. Think before engaging keyboard.

Fact: Spencer High School policy does permit students to receive phone calls from parents who are serving in the military overseas. The student in this case did not ask for permission to receive calls from his mother.

Spencer High serves Ft Benning, so many of it's students are military dependents.

Many of those students have a parent(s) who is/were deployed.

Why have we not heard about any of those other kids in the media?

Could it be because they follow the rules, advise the administration of their situation, are granted permission to receive calls from their deployed parent during school hours and don't curse at school officials .

The boy has been a chronic problem child at Spencer. Apparently (IMO) he doesn't feel that rules apply to him.

[11F5S]

School policy is law at school.

True, but you gotta admit some school policies are pretty damn stupid.

So are people commenting on situations that they don't bother to learn the facts about.

[11F5S]

You need to shut the hell up. Seriously, 11F5S just explained to you why you're arguement is seriously flawed and overly emotional and completely without merit and you just don't want to listen. Did you or do you get in trouble at school by any chance? You seem to be taking this very personally. Are you this kid?
He didn't explain anything. [Yes, I did..you're just to dense to see it]

The only lack of understanding is that none of them seem to understand that I understand the nature of the policy,[Actually you don't]but that I DISAGREE WITH IT. What more is there to explain? [Take head out of ass, take a deep breath, learn what the school policy is and pehaps you might understand what it is you're missing] Nobody here has said anything to change my opinion on this issue, instead they seem to want to try and explain it a different way, only for me to shoot it down again when I tell them that I think the policy is wrong.

I understand you're a moderator, but endorsing their opinion over mine really solves nothing. The issue will stay that they believe the school's no phone/no exception policy [For some reason you can't seem to get it through your thick head that Spencer High School doe s in fact make exceptions for calls as the one in this case] is right, and I (among many others less vocal) believe that policy is wrong.

Your stance that my argument is completely without merit is your own, though I believe I have presented far better support for my side of the argument while they have simply repeated that the kid was a foul mouthed troublemaker (more or less unsubstantiated beyond this incident) and that I don't understand that the school was enforcing the policy of equal treatment (when the lack of situational understanding is completely their own).

I was not a troublemaker in school as you have suggested, and I don't believe this kid was a troublemaker either.[The School says he has been a chronic problem child...but of course you know better than they do.] To me, he is the victim here, not the poor mistreated school staff that had to endure his baseless tirade.You seem to have a problem with rules and authority; how the hell did you survive the Corps?][ I have taken nothing here personally. I simply refuse to bow down to their childish insults at my intelligence when they fail to even grasp the basic concept of my argument.[You fail to grasp the facts in this case even when hit in the face with them] It is fine if they don't agree with me, but to attack me as a person and attack me intellectually (where they will never hope to be my equals)[ROTFLMAO] with baseless tripe.

This discussion has obviously gone well past its usefulness and neither side is going to convince the other of their viewpoint. But the court of public opinion has sided with me[Like you the majority in the court of public opinion is blind to the fact of the incident...and shoot there wads before they achieve penetration], so I think the accusation that my stance has no merit... has no merit. I'm done here, this argument has reached an impasse.


"Blinded by the light"

[username]

I don't see anything outrageous. Furthermore it's got **** all to do with USA320's trolling remarks about liberals. It appears as if the person was suspended because he was being a rude to the teacher. If he was polite about it and explained to the teacher the situation in a clear and concise way he may have not gotten into trouble. Instead he mouthed off and got suspended.

Your punching into the air USA320, very angry but noone's getting hurt.

[CountZero]

Good point there. Some school policies could be more lenient. In this particular case I think the school would be wise to make an exception for those kinds of calls because frankly (god forbid) that could be the last call he gets. I know that this is going into the ralm of speculation, but a realistic scenarion notheless due to the fact that she is in a warzone.

1. Extract head from ass.

2. Learn the facts of the case.

3. Think before engaging keyboard.

Fact: Spencer High School policy does permit students to receive phone calls from parents who are serving in the military overseas. The student in this case did not ask for permission to receive calls from his mother.

Spencer High serves Ft Benning, so many of it's students are military dependents.

Many of those students have a parent(s) who is/were deployed.

Why have we not heard about any of those other kids in the media?

Could it be because they follow the rules, advise the administration of their situation, are granted permission to receive calls from their deployed parent during school hours and don't curse at school officials .

The boy has been a chronic problem child at Spencer. Apparently (IMO) he doesn't feel that rules apply to him.

ok i misread a part. I stand corrected.

[11F5S]

Student suspended for carrying mobile phone
Publish Date : 2/24/2005 10:11:00 AM Source : Education and Studies Onlypunjab.com

A Class XI student from the Delhi Public School (DPS) here has been suspended on charges of carrying a mobile phone to school.

According to school authorities, the student, whose name has been kept confidential, had a camera phone and had allegedly tried to take photographs of female students.

"The boy admitted that he was carrying the mobile phone. The mobile, which was seized, had a camera in it. After conducting the inquiry, we decided to suspend him. He has been allowed to appear in the exam," said DPS principal Mahesh Bareja.



The school had banned mobile phones on its campus after a ******ly explicit MMS scandal involving two students a few months ago led to a scandal in its sister school in Delhi.

According to school officials, the student was suspended after a girl student's parents and other lady teachers complained about the boy allegedly trying to photograph the girls and teachers.

The parents of the girl also reportedly filed a police complaint against the boy.

Mobile phones have been banned on the campuses of most schools in Ranchi. DPS is the first school that has suspended a student for violating the ban.

[Nawlins]

School policy is law at school.

True, but you gotta admit some school policies are pretty damn stupid.

So are people commenting on situations that they don't bother to learn the facts about.

Look buddy... I wasn't saying anything about this particular case. That was a general statement about all policies at all high schools, even the one I went to, in which case that statement is totally true. Chill out.

[Argyll]

TIME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Let's all sit back and have a coke and a smile!! ;)

[11F5S]

delete double tap :oops:

[11F5S]

TIME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Let's all sit back and have a coke and a smile!! ;)


I'll leave the coke for you(it rots your teeth)...I'm going to relax in my spa , then lounge on the pool deck and sip on some Maker's Mark on the rocks. Life's tough these days :lol:

[California Joe]

I just spent 3 and a half hours standing in the cold coaching my son's minor league baseball team. 6 freaking innings, shoot me now. Maker's Mark next to my fireplace sounds pretty damned good right now to me. ;)

At least none of them had cell phones though.

[ibstolidude]

I just spent 3 and a half hours standing in the cold coaching my son's minor league baseball team. 6 freaking innings, shoot me now. Maker's Mark next to my fireplace sounds pretty damned good right now to me. ;)

At least none of them had cell phones though.

FIREPLACE!!

What the hell, did you move to Finland to be close to Tom in your retirement? It's like a million degrees out.

I hope the game went well; next time bring a special Dad's Gatorade - vodka has little smell when mixed.

[Nawlins]

I just spent 3 and a half hours standing in the cold coaching my son's minor league baseball team. 6 freaking innings, shoot me now. Maker's Mark next to my fireplace sounds pretty damned good right now to me. ;)

At least none of them had cell phones though.

FIREPLACE!!

What the hell, did you move to Finland to be close to Tom in your retirement? It's like a million degrees out.

I hope the game went well; next time bring a special Dad's Gatorade - vodka has little smell when mixed.

It's a million degrees out in TX... you forget Joe's a damn yankee.

[JTAR7242]

Yes, I did..you're just to dense to see it
More childish personal attacks. Such discipline and professionalism, I'm impressed.


The only lack of understanding is that none of them seem to understand that I understand the nature of the policy,[Actually you don't]
No, I am pretty sure I do. I read the same articles in this thread you did. Your inability to understand that I think the policy as written and exercised is stupid. Disagreement does not equate to misunderstanding.


[Take head out of ass, take a deep breath, learn what the school policy is and pehaps you might understand what it is you're missing]
Again, more childish personal attacks. Perhaps you need to cool off slappy. I'm not impressed by your tantrums, you seeem to share more in common with this kid than you claim I do.


[For some reason you can't seem to get it through your thick head that Spencer High School does in fact make exceptions for calls as the one in this case]
No... they don't.

The exception I think you're referring to just shows unequivocally that you fail to understand my argument even at its most basic, and excessively repeated, level. The school's exception is that parents can call the school and request to contact their kid through the school. There is no exception to the no cell phone policy. While I agree with the no cell phone policy in its theory, the way this case should have been handled is that the child should have been allowed to finish the phone call, and then have had it explained that it wasn't acceptable for the future, and that he needed to inform his mother that she needed to do it a different way in the future. The acceptable solution was not to assault the child, confiscate his phone, and refuse his mother the ability to talk to her child. That was just as wrong as the child's reaction, though the child was provoked, the teacher that assaulted the child was not.

This is how you eliminate something stupid like Zero Tolerance, and still maintain the good order and discipline the policy is supposed to ensure.


You seem to have a problem with rules and authority; how the hell did you survive the Corps?]
While you can disagree with me for my opinions, never insult my service to the Marine Corps. That's just plain disrespectful, and I think the Moderators should at the very least issue you a warning. Your level of professionalism is about nil, and it is obvious that you learned nothing of respect and tact in your time in the Army. I know some of you snake eaters get this complex where you think you're better than everybody else, but I'm not impressed. And you certainly don't make a good showing for yourself with your behavior. I was a better Marine than you ever could have been, and I still am today. You don't know the first thing about me, and to make arbitrary judgements of character over a single opinion in a single thread only displays your ignorance further. I'm not a single track minded moron like you seem to have become through your exposure to the military. I did what I was told in the Corps because I was a Marine, and that's what Marines do. Out in the civilian world I'm allowed to think for myself and make my own judgements on things. Formless adherence to policy as is is the sign of stagnant thinking and social regression. Society progresses and improves when people think for themselves and ask questions. Your inability to separate my disagreement for a rule at a civilian public school and your assumptions of my behavior as a Marine only puts the final nail in the coffin of your utter failure in this thread to construct a single coherent idea or competent argument. Your posts are filled with incorrect associations, baseless assumptions, logical fallacies, and personal attacks. Not too many examples of good argumentation. You didn't put much of your GI Bill to work after getting out did you?

[California Joe]

I just spent 3 and a half hours standing in the cold coaching my son's minor league baseball team. 6 freaking innings, shoot me now. Maker's Mark next to my fireplace sounds pretty damned good right now to me. ;)

At least none of them had cell phones though.

FIREPLACE!!

What the hell, did you move to Finland to be close to Tom in your retirement? It's like a million degrees out.

I hope the game went well; next time bring a special Dad's Gatorade - vodka has little smell when mixed.

It's a million degrees out in TX... you forget Joe's a damn yankee.

I'm aboot 50 miles from the Canadian border here in Vermont. Yes, I am a damn yankee recently back home after years behind enemy lines. We lost by 1 run. My kid walked 3 and struck out 5 in 2 innings pitched. Heh.

[Pandy]

I just spent 3 and a half hours standing in the cold coaching my son's minor league baseball team. 6 freaking innings, shoot me now. Maker's Mark next to my fireplace sounds pretty damned good right now to me. ;)

At least none of them had cell phones though.

FIREPLACE!!

What the hell, did you move to Finland to be close to Tom in your retirement? It's like a million degrees out.

I hope the game went well; next time bring a special Dad's Gatorade - vodka has little smell when mixed.

It's a million degrees out in TX... you forget Joe's a damn yankee.

I'm aboot 50 miles from the Canadian border here in Vermont. Yes, I am a damn yankee recently back home after years behind enemy lines. We lost by 1 run. My kid walked 3 and struck out 5 in 2 innings pitched. Heh.

Not bad, my son... well, my soon to be son most likely be able to kick my ass, but when his drunk is when I'm gonna get his ass back... ;)

[11F5S]

You seem to have a problem with rules and authority; how the hell did you survive the Corps?]
While you can disagree with me for my opinions, never insult my service to the Marine Corps. That's just plain disrespectful, and I think the Moderators should at the very least issue you a warning.

Quite frankly I find it rather astounding, that you a man of such superior intellect (of which we can "never hope to be your equal" rofl )can take that statement/question to be insulting and disrespectful to your service in the Corps.

I certainly welcome any input from the moderators regarding this matter.

[EsoognomEhT]

I'm sure the mods are deeply concerned over your little tiff

Dont worry 11F5S, I still love you though :hug:

[California Joe]

You seem to have a problem with rules and authority; how the hell did you survive the Corps?]
While you can disagree with me for my opinions, never insult my service to the Marine Corps. That's just plain disrespectful, and I think the Moderators should at the very least issue you a warning.

Quite frankly I find it rather astounding, that you a man of such superior intellect (of which we can "never hope to be your equal" rofl )can take that statement/question to be insulting and disrespectful to your service in the Corps.

I certainly welcome any input from the moderators regarding this matter.

You're just trying to get the "pants down spanking" punishment from farmgirl aren't you. p-)

[11F5S]

You seem to have a problem with rules and authority; how the hell did you survive the Corps?]
While you can disagree with me for my opinions, never insult my service to the Marine Corps. That's just plain disrespectful, and I think the Moderators should at the very least issue you a warning.

Quite frankly I find it rather astounding, that you a man of such superior intellect (of which we can "never hope to be your equal" rofl )can take that statement/question to be insulting and disrespectful to your service in the Corps.

I certainly welcome any input from the moderators regarding this matter.

You're just trying to get the "pants down spanking" punishment from farmgirl aren't you. p-)

Oh No! Not the dreaded pants down spanking from Farmgirl.

Oh well, I'm a man I can take it ...I'll go commando :lol:

P.S. I promise to be bad again. :D