Nazi's Alive and Well In Germany

[BlackRain]

Germany's far right decries 'cult of guilt'
Thousands join protest rally in Berlin

http://img257.echo.cx/img257/6041/nazi6xq.jpg

BERLIN - About 3,000 supporters of a German extreme-right party protested in Berlin Sunday against the “cult of guilt” they say was imposed on the nation after the Nazis were defeated 60 years ago.

The National Democratic Party supporters were ringed by police on central Alexanderplatz square, some waving party flags in red, white and black — the colors used by the Nazis and imperial Germany. Sunday was the anniversary of Nazi Germany’s surrender on May 8, 1945.

The National Democratic Party dismissed organizers of official remembrances on its Web site as “occupation collaborators and a group of professional Jews,” and called for “an end to the cult of guilt.”

Counter-demonstrators
The demonstrators planned to march toward the Brandenburg Gate, but it was unclear whether police would let them. Officials refused them permission to march to Germany’s new Holocaust memorial, a block away from the Brandenburg Gate, under a new law banning gatherings that insult the memory of Nazi victims.

http://img257.echo.cx/img257/6343/nazi21le.jpg
Sympathizers and members of the right wing National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD) demonstrate on the 60th anniversary of Nazi Germany's surrender at the Alexanderplatz in Berlin on Sunday, May 8, 2005

“This is a disgrace,” German Interior Minister Otto Schily said of the rally by a party he has accused of reviving Nazi ideology and symbols.

Meanwhile, several thousand counter-demonstrators headed toward the far-right rally on Berlin’s Unter den Linden boulevard to try to block the planned march. Police sealed off much of central Berlin to prevent clashes.

Nearby, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and other top politicians attended a wreath-laying ceremony at Berlin’s monument to the victims of war and Nazism, which contains the remains of an unknown soldier and an unknown concentration camp victim.

At St. Hedwig’s Cathedral, Schroeder and other German dignitaries listened to church leaders recall the horrors of war and express gratitude for Germany’s postwar revival, completed in 1990 with German reunification.

'Catastrophe' for Germans
Most Germans consider Hitler’s defeat to have liberated them as well as the rest of Europe from the terrors of Nazism.

“It was not only the end of a terrible reign of terror but also ... the day of a new beginning,” Cardinal Karl Lehmann, head of Germany’s Roman Catholic church, said at the service. “We had to newly define ourselves. We had radically lost our way into barbarism.”

But the war also was a “catastrophe” for Germans, notably those who fled or were expelled from eastern Europe, Lehmann said.

“With the expulsions, Hitler’s crimes rebounded terribly also on the Germans in the east,” he said. “We have too little awareness of that, even today.”

http://img257.echo.cx/img257/3292/nazi36pk.jpg
Sympathizers and members of the right wing National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD) demonstrate in front of the Brandenburg Gate

Other ceremonies in Berlin on Sunday included a speech by President Horst Koehler in parliament and a “Day of Democracy” rally sponsored by churches and labor unions.

The Holocaust memorial, a field of 2,700 somber concrete slabs just south of the Brandenburg Gate, is to be dedicated on Tuesday and opened to the public Thursday.

[toki]

I don't know what you want to start with this article, especially by your topic-title but 3000 Neonazis coming from whole germany to demonstrate is a low number. Outnumbered by the direct counter protesters and by far outnumbered by the regular gathering in Berlin today.

Neonazis in germany are not in any higher numbers then in any other western country. They get more interest by the media, which is correct and totally ok, but i don't see any concern by 3000 idiots. It's almost a number to laugh at. Police had to protect them from counter protesters, who especially in Berlin would have turned violent and stumped 'em to pieces.

[Drako]

I don't know what you want to start with this article, especially by your topic-title but 3000 Neonazis coming from whole germany to demonstrate is a low number. Outnumbered by the direct counter protesters and by far outnumbered by the regular gathering in Berlin today.

Neonazis in germany are not in any higher numbers then in any other western country. They get more interest by the media, which is correct and totally ok, but i don't see any concern by 3000 idiots. It's almost a number to laugh at. Police had to protect them from counter protesters, who especially in Berlin would have turned violent and stumped 'em to pieces.

Plus there were nazis from all over the Europe, not only Germany. As I read there were 7000 left-winged young Germans ready to stop nazis' march. I think that the topic should be changed because it is misleading.

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

Sounds like a similar thing we have here with the BNP. There are very few of the, but they get alot of attention.

Whenever the BNP march they are vastly outnumbered by anti-nazi protestors, and quite regularly get their head kicked in.

They are a pathetic minority.

[BlackRain]

You are kidding yourself. There is a sizeable amount of Germans in 2005 that support the Neo Nazis.


Far-Right Party Recruits Neo-Nazis

Germany's far-right National Party (NPD), which made headlines last month when it won 9.2 percent of the vote in regional elections in the eastern state of Saxony, is pressing on with its efforts to enter the national government. Looking ahead to upcoming federal elections in 2006, the NPD has recruited two prominent neo-Nazis for high-ranking leadership positions.


The NPD claims that the far-right could win 7 percent of the vote in a national election, but analysts doubt that will happen.

Example: Germany population is 82,424,609 (July 2004 est.) X 7% = 5,769,722 German NPD Supporters.



http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1348896,00.html

[toki]

This number is ridiculous. The NPD will never have the chance to get into Bundestag. Once in every ten years they could make it to some regional/state parliament, but they never survived untl the next legislature period.
They are Rat-Catchers (or pied pipers whatever you call em) who try to get the unemployed, desperate, uneducated young voters. Once in a while they get a grip on a regional level, but they're overrated in their real political impact. It's the shock effect they have on their side, but nothing else.

I don't know where you're from. Telling me millions of germans would support the NPD, but you ridicule yourself with that. I live in that country. I'm suspicious about any NAZI movement, but you wanna tell me, that my country is on the rise to get a significant Nazi party? What's your agenda? What's your goal? Leave me alone with that crap. Period. No flaming... I don't want to get to the lower level.

[Stormy]

especially by your topic-title

:lol: The topic title is questioning. BTT: Didn't they do something like this just a few months ago ?

[toki]

especially by your topic-title

:lol: The topic title is questioning. BTT: Didn't they do something like this just a few months ago ?

What do you mean? Some sort of protest rally? Yeah i think. Any political group has it's protest rallies from time to time. But the media coverage they got especially today 8th of may 05 is by far more then they actually deserve. Like some other said before. Some thousands youths in berlin were prepared to give them a fight, while tenth of thousands blocked the Nazi march peacefully.

edit: ;) yeah the topic title is more then misleading. Nazis alive and well. This is not 80 year old Warcriminals but 20 year old unemployed ****heads. Why should they not be "alive and well". BB follows some agenda choosing those kind of titles.

[Stormy]

especially by your topic-title

:lol: The topic title is questioning. BTT: Didn't they do something like this just a few months ago ?

What do you mean? Some sort of protest rally? Yeah i think. Any political group has it's protest rallies from time to time. But the media coverage they got especially today 8th of may 05 is by far more then they actually deserve. Like some other said before. Some thousands youths in berlin were prepared to give them a fight, while tenth of thousands blocked the Nazi march peacefully.

edit: ;) yeah the topic title is more then misleading. Nazis alive and well. This is not 80 year old Warcriminals but 20 year old unemployed ****heads. Why should they not be "alive and well". BB follows some agenda choosing those kind of titles.

I think it was a protest. I seen it on local and major news channels here just a few months back.

edit: I always thought this forum contained atleast 6-8 % supremacist of some sort. Everything is being monitored p-)

[Stormy]

XXXX double post

[Stormy]

XXXXX triple post.. Sorry for that. :(

[toki]

edit: I always thought this forum contained atleast 6-8 % supremacist of some sort. Everything is being monitored p-)

:lol: this forum contains of people i wouldn't have thought before.

No but honestly, i've been in almost every country in europe. This **** exists everywhere, as well as in america. And for sure germany gets another kind of media coverage, which is ok for me. But i don't let others like BlackRain tell me my country is full of Nazis, which is not true.

It's too easy to pull out any news site about another country and distort the reality a bit, wich really pisses me off today.

[Stormy]

It's too easy to pull out any news site about another country and distort the reality a bit, wich really pisses me off today.

I know what you mean. Sometimes things are exaggerated.

[achilles]

I don't know what you want to start with this article.

I am sure blackrain's purpose is not to make any negative claims about Germany but rather to point out that his country is free from radical groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nazi_Party)

Good posting rainy, keep up the good work :lol:

[Kitsune]

Tell it to the hand, BlackRain...




http://www.cs.duke.edu/~goodson/vision/Phase1/User%20Hand.jpg

[BlackRain]

http://www.deutsche-welle.de/dw/image/0,1587,1323146_10,00.jpg

Nothing to see here. Move along. No Nazi's here...

The NPD managed to get 9% of the vote in Saxony and its leader Holger Apfel was elected. That one election resulted in historic losses for the SPD.

- Not since 1968 has the NPD entered any state parliament. Now the NPD is in your government.

- The NPD received 12 percent of the unemployed vote.


In evaluating the success of the right-wing extremist parties in both states, one cannot overlook the fact that voters there are receptive to decisively rightist ideologies.

2004 State Elections in Saxony and Brandenburg

http://www.aicgs.org/wahlen/e2004charts/brandenburg04_6.jpg

http://www.aicgs.org/wahlen/e2004charts/brandenburg04_7.jpg


Tell it to the hand, BlackRain...


I guess you are denying the fact there is a growing popularity in Germany for the NPD in light of the economic downturn and dissatisfaction with the Social Democrats?

[Kitsune]

@BlackRain
I guess you are denying the fact there is a growing popularity in Germany for the NPD in light of the economic downturn and dissatisfaction with the Social Democrats?

You bet, I do. The first who claim they would be "growing in popularity" are the Neo-Nazis themselves. The **** they are. And if there is one problem with them, it's the media echo they get. Because no one wants to "deny the threat they pose". That's what they try to exploit. Men, it's the 60th anniversary of the demise of Nazi Germany, the whole world is celebrating, and they only get 3000 asses on the street for their cause? They are truly terrifying...But only in their minds.

Doh, now I have done it, too. See how you drag me down BR? Gah!

[BlackRain]

I am sure blackrain's purpose is not to make any negative claims about Germany but rather to point out that his country is free from radical groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nazi_Party)

Good posting rainy, keep up the good work :lol:

Your post displays one of two things:

A) You were trying to be honest

OR

B) You don't follow American political culture very well.

Ask yourself, what is the difference from the NPD in Germany and the "American Nazi Party"?

The NPD is currently elected by the German people and holds 12 seats in the German government.

The American Nazi Party has never held any seats in local, state, or federal government in the USA. Nor could the ANP garner 9.2% of vote as the NPD did in September 2004 in Germany.

[BlackRain]

The first who claim they would be "growing in popularity" are the Neo-Nazis themselves.

You might want to tell that to Franz Muentefering, head of the Social Democrats.

He said it was a "disaster" that the far-right National Democratic Party took 9.3 percent in Saxony almost on par with his own party's showing.

http://www.landtag.sachsen.de/slt_online/en/infothek/volksvertretung/abgeordnete/wahlergebnisse/

Denial is just not a river in Eqypt.

[Dexx]

The NPD is currently elected by the German people and holds 12 seats in the German government.


I hope you will find the mistake by yourself :lol:

And sorry, your header is plain BS. Do you, as a foreigner ( :lol: ), wanna tell my how the whole of Germany is retaken by some bunch of Nazis. You are too comical to be taken seriously.

[Kitsune]

@BlackRain:



Ask yourself, what is the difference from the NPD in Germany and the "American Nazi Party"?

The NPD is currently elected by the German people and holds 12 seats in the German government.

The American Nazi Party has never held any seats in local, state, or federal government in the USA. Nor could the ANP garner 9.2% of vote as the NPD did in September 2004 in Germany.

Please, please. The NPD holds zero seats in the German government (it did once, for one term at the end of the 60ties and that was it). And it did not get 9.2% of the German votes. It got 9.2 % of the Saxon votes and holds seats in the parliament of the state of Saxony. Which is only one of the 16 states the Federal Republic of Germany is comprised of. (And a pretty god-forsaken one at that. I would even prefer Bavaria to it. And that says a lot...)

[Kitsune]

You might want to tell that to Franz Muentefering, head of the Social Democrats.

He said it was a "disaster" that the far-right National Democratic Party took 9.3 percent in Saxony almost on par with his own party's showing.

:roll: Franz Müntefering says a lot if the day is long...

[achilles]

I am sure blackrain's purpose is not to make any negative claims about Germany but rather to point out that his country is free from radical groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nazi_Party)

Good posting rainy, keep up the good work :lol:

Your post displays one of two things:

A) You were trying to be honest

OR


Ask yourself, what is the difference from the NPD in Germany and the "American Nazi Party"?

The NPD is currently elected by the German people and holds 12 seats in the German government.

The American Nazi Party has never held any seats in local, state, or federal government in the USA. Nor could the ANP garner 9.2% of vote as the NPD did in September 2004 in Germany.

Well ok, the NPD made it to the parliament. Is this sufficient on its own to wake up the good old fears of an emerging brutal 4th reich?
Its just democracy working, i.e. all voices have the right to be heard, although the German government has already considered banning the NPD, which i am sure will be the case if the situation gets out of hand.
Dont forget that other European countries such as Austria and Greece have solid far-right movements but also enjoy political stability dont they?
I think you are either exaggerating or simply trying to make a negative point about the 'old Europe' based on fresh air ;)


B) You don't follow American political culture very well.

With the current prevalent trend i shouldnt be so very much interested anyway p-) , but i cant help keeping myself updated...

[BlackRain]

And it did not get 9.2% of the German votes. It got 9.2 % of the Saxon votes and holds seats in the parliament of the state of Saxony. Which is only one of the 16 states the Federal Republic of Germany is comprised of. (And a pretty god-forsaken one at that. I would even prefer Bavaria to it. And that says a lot...)

Are Saxon's Not Germans? It has the 6th largest population out of 16 German federal states (Länder).

Isn't Saxony part of Germany?

http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/e/e6/Bundeslaender_germany_sx.png

Isn't the Saxon Parliament a Government in Germany?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

As sad as this is.

What can really be done about it?

[Thor]

As I read there were 7000 left-winged young Germans ready to stop nazis' march.
The police should focus on the commies. We can't have leftwingers on the streets of Europe.

Europe should follow the example set by Denmark - regular parties pick up parts of the ideas from right wing parties.

[askDNA]

I'm not saying they're not a problem, but you're forgetting the number of people turning out for the election too... 7% of the vote of a 50% turnout of voting *AGE* people is not equal to 7% of the population.

[California Joe]

Black Rain, do you really have to be on the wrong side of every frigging argument? Wait, I may have agreed with you about cheerleaders being too ******. I can't remember. Oh well.

Locked.