the few the proud the not very bright

[martinexsquaddie]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm
warning graphic
also not good if you think us forces do no wrong
I particulary impressed by the bone comment at the end

[Shake n Bake]

Thats a no go

[martinexsquaddie]

sorry try now

[Shake n Bake]

Damn, I'd like to save that for posterity

[Roger Rabbit]

Thats pretty harsh. Then and again they could be more to this than we are aware of from the video.

The guy they shot didn't really look like a soldier though.

[Guttorm]

Well, the insurgents arent in uniform, so they wouldn't look like a soldier...
But I thought one was supposed to care for wounded enemy's.¨

Also the vidio is cut, we realy don't know if the "Hell yeah, let's do it again" part refers to killing.

[Shake n Bake]

Thats pretty harsh. Then and again they could be more to this than we are aware of from the video.

The guy they shot didn't really look like a soldier though.


Also the vidio is cut, we realy don't know if the "Hell yeah, let's do it again" part refers to killing.


exactly..it could have been easily edited


..At any rate.. combat is hell so unless you been there STFU!

[Steve Andrews]

He was obviously posing a threat, so had to be taken out. Right guys..?

Pricks.

[Roger Rabbit]

exactly..it also could have been easily edited


..At any rate.. combat is hell so unless you been there STFU!

Erm i wasn't condemning or condoning their actions. I said that because its only a video there could be more to this than we are aware of from just looking at the video.

The guy they shot doesn't look like a uniformed soldier. He could be Fedyeen, he could be a soldier, he could be a civilian.

[Skaman]

Any justifiable excuse to cover your tracks? This seems reminiscent of the tank rolling over that mans car, then them cheering.

Hmm, do these incidents borrow from any other meaningful wars of th2 20th century?

:roll:

Nonetheless, the man is rolling on the ground, wounded, near death, yet they shoot him, rather than attempt to apprehend and heal the man.

I don’t want to hear anyone defend these troops. This type of behavior is not acceptable for a western power. Its sick and callous to hear troops cheer as another man is riddled with bullets.

[Roger Rabbit]

edit:deleted

[Royal]

..At any rate.. combat is hell so unless you been there STFU!

I have, so no, I'm not going to STFU.

If it's an edit it's despicable.

If it's not an edit it's even more despicable.

[Yeti]

**** him. You think they were keeping their distance because he wasn't a threat? He probably shot some GIs, or planted a **** load of IEDs.

[Roger Rabbit]

When is somebody going to say the guy could have been a suicide bomber?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

That was from the CNN documentary about war and what it does to a human mind and the after affects. Yes the man is on the ground, he is a regular (not Fedayeen/terrorist) because of the green outfitt hes wearing, if I remeber correctly he was laying on the ground wounded, then they killed him.

It is kinda sick that they would shoot him instead of going to save him and gather intelligence off of him. What would look better on your record, another confirmed kill, or capturing someone that may know some intelligence about the road up ahead (as this was taken during fighting on the way to Baghdad).

Royal summed it up well, you guys really need to look at this from another angle.

[Uncle Sam]

You people have to remember something here...These are young, immature soldiers in a place where they can be killed...This is what they do, fools! This is what they train for...To kill people.

Doesn't matter if it has cheers to go with it. That was just a small clip of something larger that they don't show you...And do you know why?? Because the media is just as as bad as Saddam !

It only shows what they want you to see. And with that kid in the video...How old do you think he is...18 - 19 ? With all his "buddies" right there, what do you think he's gonna say..."I feel really bad for killing that guy."

If I felt he was a threat...I wouldv'e shot him also. I don't care if he was on the ground, or walking around. The media make it so melodramatic...This is a "War"...People die in the most f***ed up ways. Give me a freakin break. :fork:

[Maj C]

well that doesn't look too good but then again maybe that's war. Reminds me of John Keegan's Face of Battle - how many times through history has this happened? Or perhaps that famous footage from the liberation of Paris when the resistance firebombs a German truck and continues to shoot the German lying wounded in the street. Hard for me to say what I would have done since I'm not totally sure of what happened there but as an officer I think I would have stopped it. could have been some FSSG Marines looking to bust some caps since they normally don't get to...well sometimes there's nobody more cruel than your average 19 year old male.

[Jack Mehoff]

oh wait, i thought CNN is PRO AMERICAN like mr.doucebag19 alway claimed, that video is no shape or form is pro American and pro Iraq war. Something fishy is going on here

[96B]

I actually watched that special on CNN entitled "Fit to Kill" and compares the war stories/emotions from a WWII Ranger, Marine in Vietnam, and an Army tanker during Desert Storm. That part in the link was from a short clip from OIF with Marines. What the video doesnt show is that the same guy who was describing that it was "awesome" was describing how they felt at the time and then he talks about how they later all felt horrible that they had killed men(not necessarily bc of that particular event but just the act itself).

They put him out of his misery instead of letting him die slowly, and as with most of the media clips posted, they have been edited in some form or fashion to totaly take things out of context in order to support an anti-war or anti-American view. This is then quickly hailed as true by many (including on this board) and all skepticism is thrown out the window yet when any good news comes about it is propaganda.

[martinexsquaddie]

er putting someone out of there misery?
Excuse me rules of warfare enemy's are not killed because there injured there entitled to medical treatment.
the correct reponse to a journalist who ask's whats it like to kill is a smart punch to the nose and a suggestion he follow moses

[Uncle Sam]

agreed...96B

They don't show you the roadside bomb that took out a couple of his buddies the day before...

...Or the mob that dragged the two soldiers from the truck...And killed them!

Again...

Give me a freakin' break!

[2Sheds_Jackson]

WTF is the problem with this? You're seeing only what the camera shows you. We have no idea if there were more hostiles behind that wall to the right, etc. We have no idea if he had explosives strapped to himself, or a grenade to toss etc.

Yes it's upsetting to see another human being get shot. It's unsettling to see people "enjoying" themselves doing it. I'll tell you, if some bastard was trying to kill me, and I killed him instead, I'd be happy as hell too. It's entirely understandable in the context of the moment.

Those who see this and then swallow what CNN has served them on a platter are puppets. The "reporter's" interpretation of "writhing in pain" could just as easily be an attempt to continue agressive behavior. If my life was on the line, I wouldn't have taken any chances either. To call this an outrage is naïve.

[Trigger]

If it's an edit it's despicable.

That's obviously an edited bit of footage. I'm not saying a wounded man shouldn't be helped, but that file could easily have had the cheering added and that Marine could have been talking about a f**king football game he played. Some of you are just salivating in anticipation of anything that portrays Americans as bloodthirsty heartless bastards. Please use your heads for something besides growing hair.

[Royal]

First, I stand by my quote - if this is an edit, it's despicable


They put him out of his misery instead of letting him die slowly, and as with most of the media clips posted, they have been edited in some form or fashion to totaly take things out of context in order to support an anti-war or anti-American view.

As Martin has already pointed out 'putting someone out of their misery' does not fall within the laws and norms of war.


You people have to remember something here...These are young, immature soldiers in a place where they can be killed...This is what they do, fools! This is what they train for...To kill people.

Doesn't matter if it has cheers to go with it. That was just a small clip of something larger that they don't show you...And do you know why?? Because the media is just as as bad as Saddam !

It only shows what they want you to see. And with that kid in the video...How old do you think he is...18 - 19 ? With all his "buddies" right there, what do you think he's gonna say..."I feel really bad for killing that guy."

If I felt he was a threat...I wouldv'e shot him also. I don't care if he was on the ground, or walking around. The media make it so melodramatic...This is a "War"...People die in the most f***ed up ways. Give me a freakin break.

I'm surprised and saddened to read that, because I know you've BTDT. Yes there is blame to be apportioned to the media, but soldiers are not just trained to kill, they're trained to give aid, to show respect for local populations and even their enemies. They're trained to turn some of this world's ****holes into better places - and the actions portrayed in that clip show none of the above.


They don't show you the roadside bomb that took out a couple of his buddies the day before...

...Or the mob that dragged the two soldiers from the truck...And killed them!

All of which is frankly irrelavent. Trained and discplined soldiers follow their training and the lawful orders of those above them.

Have I seen mates killed and wanted to do exactly that? Yes. Would it have made me feel better at the time? Yes. Did I do it? No, because to act like that would make me no better than the scum we fight.

[Maj C]

forwarded to all my friends who were there....they say from the short clip it's too hard to tell but they lean towards saying it's a clean kill - still moving, could be a threat, could still be armed or well...in any case. it's a very short scene from an unknown context. otherwise, xin loi man...tough luck - there are pics of corpsmen treating wounded iraqis so it's absolute bull if people are saying there was a take no prisoners attitude.

[Roger Rabbit]

In "Deadline Iraq" theres a brief clip showing American medics treating wounded enemy troops whilst still under fire.

^^
Above point is inregard to what Maj C said about medics and the enemy

[Seraphim]

I just checked the link again and there are comments from members in the military, were those comments there before? Am I going blind?

[Royal]

so it's absolute bull if people are saying there was a take no prisoners attitude.

No one's claiming there was a 'take no prisoners' attitude, they're commenting on this clip. There were thousands of prisoners taken by the US and UK forces - the majority treated humanely, a minority not. Those few cases are being investigated.

[Maj C]

the clip page is titled "take no prisoners" and the caption describes it as marines "executing" iraqi. who are those people? information clearing house? it also says "news you won't find on cnn" and the clip is from cnn...

[FallenAngel]

I tend to agree with the "we don't know the whole story" side. If this was shot while the Marines were pushing towards Baghdad, then it might be understandable considering the fact that there were so many cases of Iraqis surrending, only to blow themselves up with 2-3 Americans. It's quite possible that this man was laying explosives or ready to ambush American service men. There very well could have been other Iraqi regulars in the area so giving aide was not possible. Maybe there were American wounded that medics were tending to....

...then again, who knows, they are just 18-19 year olds in combat. I wasn't there and I don't know the specific circumstances and so I won't pass judgement on the 10 seconds of footage in the clip.

As for the interview...I give that no credit at all. It's obviously edited and thus probably misconstrude.

[Uncle Sam]

Royal wrote:


First, I stand by my quote - if this is an edit, it's despicable


96B wrote:
They put him out of his misery instead of letting him die slowly, and as with most of the media clips posted, they have been edited in some form or fashion to totaly take things out of context in order to support an anti-war or anti-American view.


As Martin has already pointed out 'putting someone out of their misery' does not fall within the laws and norms of war.


RIP_Cord wrote:
You people have to remember something here...These are young, immature soldiers in a place where they can be killed...This is what they do, fools! This is what they train for...To kill people.

Doesn't matter if it has cheers to go with it. That was just a small clip of something larger that they don't show you...And do you know why?? Because the media is just as as bad as Saddam !

It only shows what they want you to see. And with that kid in the video...How old do you think he is...18 - 19 ? With all his "buddies" right there, what do you think he's gonna say..."I feel really bad for killing that guy."

If I felt he was a threat...I wouldv'e shot him also. I don't care if he was on the ground, or walking around. The media make it so melodramatic...This is a "War"...People die in the most f***ed up ways. Give me a freakin break.


I'm surprised and saddened to read that, because I know you've BTDT. Yes there is blame to be apportioned to the media, but soldiers are not just trained to kill, they're trained to give aid, to show respect for local populations and even their enemies. They're trained to turn some of this world's ****holes into better places - and the actions portrayed in that clip show none of the above.


RIP_Cord wrote:
They don't show you the roadside bomb that took out a couple of his buddies the day before...

...Or the mob that dragged the two soldiers from the truck...And killed them!


All of which is frankly irrelavent. Trained and discplined soldiers follow their training and the lawful orders of those above them.

Have I seen mates killed and wanted to do exactly that? Yes. Would it have made me feel better at the time? Yes. Did I do it? No, because to act like that would make me no better than the scum we fight.

My point being this..."Today, another G.I. was killed in a roadside bombing...", "2 G.I.'s killed today in an apparent RPG attack..." They are reporting this like it was nothing...

But, as soon as footage comes out of a G.I. actually "doing the deed" it's "An execution"...

...Just like I, and many others on this post have said, This is a "snipet" of a much larger time frame, edited for T.V. of course.

Now do you honestly think that these were a bunch of privates running around Iraq "executing" people...NO...There had to be some sort of leadership there. And that leadership felt that this person was a threat, so, they took him out. I'm sure they had the ROE and everything.

I respect everyones opinion on this matter.

[Uncle Sam]

"the few the proud the not very bright"

C'mon...I'm sure that "kid" was talking off of adrenaline...

"the few the proud the young, dumb, and full of...well, you know"

[Seoulstriker]

nice edited video. no back story. :roll:

[Saint]

You know what. War is war. People are going to die. F*** that guy on the ground. Whomever said he probably tried to kill some of their buddies is probably right. Im sorry, but with all that s*** thats happening to the US over in Iraq, not only would I be a little jumpy, I would want any attacker or foe dead.
And thats, the rest of the story.

[Uncle Sam]

The more I think about it, the more I put myself in the shoes of those grunts...I have been there(Younger days)

These guys were probably not cheering the fact that Pvt. Stillindiapers waxed some Iraqi. But the fact that they just defeated the enemy. You have to put yourself in that mindset...Defeat the enemy. Morality, Ethics...I think that takes a backseat to trying to cover your own ass and that of your buddy.

:fork: I'm done.

[hood]

it also says "news you won't find on cnn" and the clip is from cnn...

I think that sums it up nicely. As has already been mentioned here, the video was very nicely taken out of context, being very careful to edit out the narration of the reporter which comes before the part where they shoot the guy. It mentions that the guy they shot had been coming at them with an AK47, which was only a little ways away from where he fell. Videos like this, from leftist anti-war zealots use half-truths and out of context videos and stories as their primary weapon. Understand this video for what it is, and dismiss it.

[Uncle Sam]

And that's why YOU are the Site Admin. woot

[Steve Andrews]

RIP_Cord,
You are a fool.

[Minjin]

Just a thought that came to me here reading some of the responses. Imagine the outrage and hate messages that would be here if it was an Iraqi tape of an American wounded serviceman being shot like that. I don't think half of the posts in defence of the Marine would be up in defense of an Iraqi for killing in a war zone.

Not that I am picking sides, just playing Devil's Advocate.......

[Uncle Sam]

Really...Why is that, Stevie??

[Jack Mehoff]

Just a thought that came to me here reading some of the responses. Imagine the outrage and hate messages that would be here if it was an Iraqi tape of an American wounded serviceman being shot like that. I don't think half of the posts in defence of the Marine would be up in defense of an Iraqi for killing in a war zone.

Not that I am picking sides, just playing Devil's Advocate.......

Well, if you read the rules and it says you can post graphic LINKS and not pictures spray all over the forum page. Spier tried that bull**** and he got ass banned


2.5. Don't direct post gory or graphic images. If you must post such things, only provide a regular link with a large warning as to what to expect when someone clicks on it. Users that continue to post such images after a warning will be banned.

[hood]

Imagine the outrage and hate messages that would be here if it was an Iraqi tape of an American wounded serviceman being shot like that.

It's understandable to be outraged at the shooting of anyone. It's a horrible thing. What I won't do, is give those sites the satisfaction of reacting with a knee-jerk reflex like they want us all to.

[Uncle Sam]

Steve Andrews Wrote:


RIP_Cord,
You are a fool.

I love it when people use the computer as a shield. Cuz if we were standing here, having a "discussion"...I really doubt you would say that.

[Dalleer]

I'm going to have to agree that we haven't been shown the whole story in this "clip" of the action...

But in any case, I'm wondering on who exactly taped this whole thing?

Was it the press/one of the marines/ etc. ?

[hood]

It was an embedded reporter that was with them. It brings to light just how censored the whole embedded reporting was. As usual, we hardly saw anything of what really happened.

[Beowulf]

FM 27-10 Law of Land Warfare
Chpt. 4
216.
Search for Casualties
At all times, and particularly after an engagement, Parties to the conflict shall, without delay, take all possible measures to search for and collect the wounded and sick, to protect them against pillage and ill-treatment, to ensure their adequate care, and to search for the dead and prevent their being despoiled.

This is what the Army manual says regarding the wounded and sick . The video is not clear at all in terms of the circumstances. If the "engagement" was over then it would have been no different if that Marine had walked up and put two into the wounded mans chest. This is the interpretation that many of you have gleefully accepted. I do not think that is an accurate interpretation.

Rarely have I invoked the "I've been there and know etc etc etc" phrase, but I do so now. In my experience, if I were in a situation where there was a wounded enemy soldier, with a weapon near him, and other enemy in the area. I would definitely not go render medical aid. I would most likely remove that wounded soldier (still a potential threat via grenade IED AK pistol etc.) from the equation. Or to put it more clearly I would shoot him until dead or til he stopped moving.

Is this a nice thing to do? No. It is a horrible thing, but being nice will get you killed. I will not get myself or my buddies killed b/c I went to render aid and the guy had a grenade or a pistol and shot me in the face when I went strolling up to him. I would definitely not go if I thought there were more enemy in the area or there was shooting going on.

Does this mean you never render aid to a wounded enemy? Of course not. However, the first obligation is to the mission, and to my fellow soldiers. The enemy comes last.

[usa320]

Guys notice how he moves his arms and rolls to the side.

Perhaps reaching for his kalashnikov?

From that angle its hard to see, but there is a good probability he was reaching for a weapon, and in that situation i would have probably shot hima s well.

[XASA]

To the right of the alleged "victim" there is an object that appears to be a weapon, if it was a weapon, then woe be unto him.

[Blues]

Hi guys..

I been thinking obout this video.. and it's surely edited.. but I think its edited frome a larger file. The program is definetly longer then 1min or so..

And with that i dont mean that CNN edited, no i mean the one who runs the web page did.. its not hard i can do it myself i have the apropriate program installed on my computer to do it myself if i got the original file..And every one can ripp stuff frome the TV and edit it as u like..Horrible but true..
just my thoughts..

/Blues

[Shiruzu]

... and other enemy in the area. I would definitely not go render medical aid...

I can't believe that the reporters would be filming the scene, if there could be enemys behind that wall. :roll:

Also, if they cheer in victory because they won the battle, why don't they help the soldier?

And i don't think that he is still able to fire a weapon - i think he has other things in mind than to shoot at the US-Soldiers who seem to be far more and ready to take him down every moment!

I don't see any respect beeing brought to the soldier but he is treated like a wounded animal! The fact that he had a gun in his hands is still no reason to fire at a heavily wounded soldier lying on the street, who even turns himself away from the US-Soldiers!
All this: "He might have had an explosive device with him" is just BS, because this could have been investigated by observing the scene and if he would have made a quick move, then shooting him. But he was shot in the back, lying there! (Not to mention, that these idiots needed at least 3 shots to kill him)

[Blues]

Hi again.. I also notised that after he says.. "its a good feeling" in the hummer the video jumps forward one frame or and that shows it clearly edited

[Shiruzu]

...I been thinking obout this video.. and it's surely edited..


Does this change the fact, that the US-Troops fired at a nearly dead soldier lying on the street, his back facing the Troops??
That kill was unnecessary - it was just some fun for the GIs!
Why did they shoot him, if he didn't mean any danger to them? To ease his pain - like you do with a wounded deer??

[Seoulstriker]

Hi again.. I also notised that after he says.. "its a good feeling" in the hummer the video jumps forward one frame or and that shows it clearly edited


yes, yes. what can you expect from the authors of the website, though? this is similar to the DU flash film which used images from medical databases to show that the US is still killing iraqis.

[Shiruzu]

Hi again.. I also notised that after he says.. "its a good feeling" in the hummer the video jumps forward one frame or and that shows it clearly edited

Are you a rocket scientist or something?
Even a retard would have noticed that.

But the fact that it is edited doesn't need to mean, that the Soldier didn't refer on that battle. It could have also been edited to erase a less important part of the interview.
I think, that he is talking about the battle itself and not exactly about the "execution" - although it was part of the battle.

[Blues]

And whats up with this text on the web page "NEWS YOU WON'T FIND ON CNN".. and As for the start of the file the text jumps forward.. seems edited out or edited in.. i see to many things in this file who surely makes it edited.. and if any one cant see that i dont know..

and as for shooting him they did a good call, I dont know any army in the world who would risk a soldier in that case and especialy if there was a fire fight before claiming they did a bad call is just nuts..

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

He does have a Ak dropped to his right, but on CNN during the report he was apparently laying there for awhile. True there was probably hostiles still in the area, but still he was rolling around probably writhing in pain from being shot. These guys were sitting behind a wall plus they have hummers with machineguns on the top, I'd consider them to be pretty safe to jump the wall n maybe give him some help. NYDP,LAPD do this all the time, why cant the military? Is it too "macho" to go and help a wounded Iraqi?

B makes some points, but if it was you on the other end of the barrel would you want to be helped?

[Blues]

I don't realy care about if they shoot or not im just claiming the file was edited.. I don't want to start a flame war with politics and stuff im just claiming the file was edited and posted on a anti american web page and im tired of all the BS that every one who don't like the US and there politics can post what ever they want and edit files to there favour.. And im sure every one ells is.

[Blues]

And as for the last pice of the interview the color aint the same.. Now i got all the pices together and the one who still bevlies the film aint edited i just say "suck my B :bash: LS

[Argyll]

No use crying over spilt milk!

As to the video........some will see it different than others........welcome to the real world!!

[California Joe]

Good Lord, of course it was edited. The time lapse is whack anyway. I shoot guy, he drops, he rolls towards gun, I stop him, 2 second time lapse. Beowulf eloquently explained in logical terms the scenario when rendering aid is possible or not possible. This video is a butchered version of several clips strung together. Christ, they're courtmarshaling a colonel that fired his gun NEAR and Iraqi to get information.

Shiuzu, yes reporters film actual engagements in harms way that's why some of them are dead.

[hank]

It is funny to me that anyone, even the ex-mil people, on this forum are quick to defend or condemn our guys in this video. We have no idea aboutt the story surrounding this clip. Even if you knew a person, or watched a CNN story, or heard about it from someone, the fact is that we were not there and this video is cut to fit and promote an agenda.

Don't be so quick to judge - good or bad. See this vieo for what it is - like Hood said - a ploy to get a knee-jerk reaction. Resist that temptation. If this video shows something illegal then trust our guys to take action and investigate. If an investigation warrants punishment then the proper people can judge. This is neither the place or manner in which these soldiers should be second-guessed.

Unless you are there and know first hand through your own experience what happened before and after you are not in a position to judge. Even the embedded reporters don't know what really happened because they are not making the decision. Neither are we here in our houses thousands of miles away and months later.

At the very least we should all be discriminating viewers and remember the source of everything we see. Our guys are human - sometimes they make mistakes and sometimes they get it right. There is no way for us to know from this ten second clip into which category these soldiers fall.

hank

[Trigger]

ßå$tÄ®<ETH>¢HÏ¿<eth> wrote:

I'd consider them to be pretty safe to jump the wall n maybe give him some help. NYDP,LAPD do this all the time, why cant the military? Is it too "macho" to go and help a wounded Iraqi?
I understand your sympathy for a wounded man but you can't tell a damn thing about what is going on in the immediate or surrounding area from that clip. This isn't NY or LA. This is a WAR ZONE! not a police situation. Please get a clue about that. You've never been in that situation but if you ever are, go ahead and be 'the man' and hop that wall. Your buddies will be bringing you back in a bag.
Why doesn't our military do things like run out and help the poor wounded Iraqi who was just trying to kill us?

We like to win, and live to tell about it.

[cut]

it's edited when he gets up just before he's shot so he may well have gone for his AK. either way when they shot him it wasn't in his hands.. and the editing was done by CNN, is CNN anti-american now?

[Jack Mehoff]

Innocent until proven guilty. You can't accuse anybody with a damn paste and cut to the ass video clip

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Obviously it is a warzone and I am aware of that, like I said if it was me, you or anyone else on the end of that barrel we'd wanna get helped out not sit n slowly die or get shot dead.

--------------->edit
the editing was done by cnn

[Jack Mehoff]

it's edited when he gets up just before he's shot so he may well have gone for his AK. either way when they shot him it wasn't in his hands.. and the editing was done by CNN, is CNN anti-american now?

Wait, you think only CNN have the ability to cut, paste and edited a video? I have Adobe Premiere Pro here and I can do a much better job.

[Shiruzu]

...Shiuzu, yes reporters film actual engagements in harms way that's why some of them are dead...

I can't imagine that a reporter would take the risk to get shot, because of an enemy coming around a wall 50m away from him and the first soldier who could prevent him from getting shot is the one right next to him.

And why would the soldiers cheer if another enemy is still near?? They would just tell him even better, where they are!
(I assume, that the cheering is not edited - the guys who have seen it on TV can tell us if it was in the original documentary, shown on CNN)

[Jack Mehoff]

Obviously it is a warzone and I am aware of that, like I said if it was me, you or anyone else on the end of that barrel we'd wanna get helped out not sit n slowly die or get shot dead.

--------------->edit
the editing was done by cnn

so CNN edited that video to make an anti American statement? Didn't you and doucebag19 say something about CNN is pro American earlier?

[Steve Andrews]

Steve Andrews Wrote:


RIP_Cord,
You are a fool.

I love it when people use the computer as a shield. Cuz if we were standing here, having a "discussion"...I really doubt you would say that.

:D

[Blues]

Jack Mehoff I agree but u guys havn't read my previus post on this topic did u.. I
And with that i dont mean that CNN edited, no i mean the one who runs the web page did

and as Jack says i can allso edit the file if i got the original to make it look like the soldier phucked a donky if i so want to..

[California Joe]

it's edited when he gets up just before he's shot so he may well have gone for his AK. either way when they shot him it wasn't in his hands.. and the editing was done by CNN, is CNN anti-american now?

Wait, you think only CNN have the ability to cut, paste and edited a video? I have Adobe Premiere Pro here and I can do a much better job.

Jack's right. Christ I could do a better job than that right here.

[USMarine3521]

Obviously it is a warzone and I am aware of that, like I said if it was me, you or anyone else on the end of that barrel we'd wanna get helped out not sit n slowly die or get shot dead.

--------------->edit
the editing was done by cnn

i doubt it was a cnn edit, probably just some anti-american who knows adobe premiere, being skilled at video editing myself, that was merely and cut and paste job. a really ****ty one too

[Shiruzu]

How can you tell, that CNN didn't do it? You don't know the original footage, maybe something was f0cked up with the camera at the interview or whatever....

You don't want the people to judge if it was an execution or not - but at the same time you just rule the tape to be edited by BinLaden himself! :roll:

[Jack Mehoff]

I watch that video clip about 20 times and I noticed when that Iraqis about to turn his back to reach for something and the moving text below the screen jumped? It doesn't take a genius to figure that part was cut. I guess the people who hosted that video doesn't have enough webhost space :lol:

[Blues]

I gues a short movie showing USA doing bad stuff is doing more harm then a longer movie who's showing the same thing.. becouse a shorter movie peoples won't quiestion the fotage..at leats it seams whats happend here and it would be the same efect for every one ells who belives this crap

[Jack Mehoff]

If they really want to show the TRUE story behind that incident then they wouldn't ****ing edited and cut a damn video. Only people have something to hide is doing that crap.

[California Joe]

First rule of shooting wounded enemies, don't let the embedded reporter get it on film. Duh.

[USMarine3521]

How can you tell, that CNN didn't do it? You don't know the original footage, maybe something was f0cked up with the camera at the interview or whatever....

You don't want the people to judge if it was an execution or not - but at the same time you just rule the tape to be edited by BinLaden himself! :roll:

because as far as I know CNN isn't trying to make the matrix 4...i mean can't you see that??? just look at the body and the text...good god it's not that hard to tell

[Trigger]

How can you tell, that CNN didn't do it? You don't know the original footage, maybe something was f0cked up with the camera at the interview or whatever....

You don't want the people to judge if it was an execution or not - but at the same time you just rule the tape to be edited by BinLaden himself! :roll:
We know exactly the same thing you do after watching that tape:
IT PROVES NOTHING! Yet here we have the same old song and dance from the local lefties.
That Iraqi took up arms against an opposing force. He took his chances. He knew that he could be killed in battle.
Quit basing a useless argument on a badly edited piece of video that is meant to mislead you.

[Shiruzu]

... He took his chances. He knew that he could be killed in battle...


Does this mean, he hasn't got the right for first aid?
I mean: US-Soldiers also knwo, that they can get killed/wounded anytime - how would you feel, if the iraqi's did that to a US-Soldier??

[Salty Dog]

rofl that video had the worst editing job ever.

[Blues]

what's the point of whine about that hes been shot and that he should get medical aid.. hes dead and its war.. and if any one can't get that why are they on a war/military forum in the first place..

[Shiruzu]

If they really want to show the TRUE story behind that incident then they wouldn't f*** edited and cut a damn video. Only people have something to hide is doing that crap.

Maybe it was just too long, and they wanted to show the 'important' things, so that more users can watch it and their bandwith isn't so stressed.

I think here were some people who saw this on TV?? Can't they tell us, if there have been scenes cut out?(Of course, his 'ambush' is missing - but i mean scenes that show him lying on the street, before he got shot)

[Shiruzu]

what's the point of whine about that hes been shot and that he should get medical aid.. hes dead and its war.. and if any one can't get that why are they on a war/military forum in the first place..

I ask you again: Would your reaction be the same, if this was a video that shows Iraqi's killing an US-Soldier that lies on the street? Or a swedish soldier, that lies there in agony ;)

I can remember some reactions after Somalie '93, when some dead US-Soldiers were pulled through the streets, a cheering crowd behind them.... was this the same? Was this "just war" ? ;)

[California Joe]

If they really want to show the TRUE story behind that incident then they wouldn't f*** edited and cut a damn video. Only people have something to hide is doing that crap.

Maybe it was just too long, and they wanted to show the 'important' things, so that more users can watch it and their bandwith isn't so stressed.

I think here were some people who saw this on TV?? Can't they tell us, if there have been scenes cut out?(Of course, his 'ambush' is missing - but i mean scenes that show him lying on the street, before he got shot)

Are you retarded?

[Shiruzu]

Are you retarded?


...said the clown...

[Trigger]

...to the retard.

[Shiruzu]

...to the retard.

No, you got that wrong, he said it to me, not to you ;)



But anyway, whats your intention Joe?

[California Joe]

Are you retarded?


...said the clown...

I do not presume to be an expert here in anything military. There are others more qualified for that. I give them their due But I recognize a case of head in ass when I see it. You are suffering severely. Does my humor offend you? Funny how? Am I a clown or what? Funny how? Asshead.

[Shiruzu]

Lets keep it down... ;)

So why should i be 'retarded' - i just said, that it might be, that the one who edited the video didn't take anything necessary out.

What was the problem?

[California Joe]

Well lets examine the source and where it came from for starters. I don't trust mainstream media, let alone some jackoff (no offense Jack) on the internet. So the images are spurious at best. I could put your head on a sheep with Argyll behind you in Photoshop. ;) Doesn't mean you're his type.

[El'Potato]

What was the problem?

Guess it was a point that they can't counter.

[Shiruzu]

I get your point, but isn't it possible, that it happened the way, the video wants to tell? And if it was first edited by CNN, i want to know from the guys who watched it on TV, if the soldier in the interview refered to the battle, where the Iraqi was killed, when he said:

"These Guys are dead now, its a good feeling..."

[Argyll]

:lol: rofl
Ok Joe who let the cat outta the bag?
And I am fussy in my type!! ;)

[California Joe]

You're the first Scot that sprang to mind pal. We get the same treatment in Vermont where I'm from. ;) At least till it became legal to marry other guys. :)

[Trigger]

What was the problem?

Guess it was a point that they can't counter.
No asshead #2. The point was countered by simple logic. i.e. the film proves nothing.

Shiruzu wrote:

but isn't it possible, that it happened the way, the video wants to tell?
Yes and it's equally possible that it's a complete load of sh!t. Why are you so anxious to believe the former?

[Shiruzu]

Shiruzu wrote:

but isn't it possible, that it happened the way, the video wants to tell?
Yes and it's equally possible that it's a complete load of sh!t. Why are you so anxious to believe the former?

Why are you so anxious to believe in my opinion? ;)

[USMarine3521]

I get your point, but isn't it possible, that it happened the way, the video wants to tell? And if it was first edited by CNN, i want to know from the guys who watched it on TV, if the soldier in the interview refered to the battle, where the Iraqi was killed, when he said:

"These Guys are dead now, its a good feeling..."

you dont know what else he said after that, I can't believe you are actually believing it, it's so obvious....they are only showing exactly what they want to show you and not the whole story behind it.

[Shiruzu]

What was the problem?

Guess it was a point that they can't counter.
No asshead #2. The point was countered by simple logic. i.e. the film proves nothing.


Don't mind El'Potato - these guys allways freak, if you say something which is opposite to their beliefs rofl

[Shiruzu]

I get your point, but isn't it possible, that it happened the way, the video wants to tell? And if it was first edited by CNN, i want to know from the guys who watched it on TV, if the soldier in the interview refered to the battle, where the Iraqi was killed, when he said:

"These Guys are dead now, its a good feeling..."

you dont know what else he said after that, I can't believe you are actually believing it, it's so obvious....they are only showing exactly what they want to show you and not the whole story behind it.


I think we need someone, who got that documentary on tape ;)

[El'Potato]

But how in the sweet name of the lord of the flies can you Trigger, say that it is simple logic?

You keep on telling us "leftist-liberal-ragheaded-freedom-hating-falafelchomping-ragheaded-commiebastards" to look at these videos with critisism in mind.

Well, you being so tied up in your bias can't see that the movie MIGHT be right, rather you claim it to be false. Just AS MUCH as "we" claim it to be true.

Can't you see it in that perspective, or you would rather continue making rather pathetic and actually laughable insults like "asshead" instead of adding some constructive critisism to this discussion?

From the way I see it, this is NOT about everyone-against-USA but rather that there DOES happen TRAGIC, UNJUSTIFIED and CRUEL acts inside the american army AS WELL! The only thing I can make out from that video is, that the US has it's own amount of "assheads" and it is important to understand that NO country is a saint.

Thanks for listening, if you didn't and decide to reply anyway, well I only hope you will think before printing.

[El'Potato]

Don't mind El'Potato - these guys allways freak, if you say something which is opposite to their beliefs rofl



Yeah I know, it's sad really... :(
They preach all day and night that we must see it from a perspective and their point of view. Too bad they can't do it themselves p-)

[Beowulf]

Don't mind El'Potato - these guys allways freak, if you say something which is opposite to their beliefs rofl



Yeah I know, it's sad really... :(
They preach all day and night that we must see it from a perspective and their point of view. Too bad they can't do it themselves p-)

You guys are so cute together.... :hug:

[California Joe]

But how in the sweet name of the lord of the flies can you Trigger, say that it is simple logic?

You keep on telling us "leftist-liberal-ragheaded-freedom-hating-falafelchomping-ragheaded-commiebastards" to look at these videos with critisism in mind.

Well, you being so tied up in your bias can't see that the movie MIGHT be right, rather you claim it to be false. Just AS MUCH as "we" claim it to be true.

Can't you see it in that perspective, or you would rather continue making rather pathetic and actually laughable insults like "asshead" instead of adding some constructive critisism to this discussion?

From the way I see it, this is NOT about everyone-against-USA but rather that there DOES happen TRAGIC, UNJUSTIFIED and CRUEL acts inside the american army AS WELL! The only thing I can make out from that video is, that the US has it's own amount of "assheads" and it is important to understand that NO country is a saint.

Thanks for listening, if you didn't and decide to reply anyway, well I only hope you will think before printing.

I said Asshead. Just sayin.

Theoretically if it did happen as portrayed the US soldiers involved would face serious inquiries and consequences if found guilty. Like Royal posted way back on page 1, professionalism is a must. Executions would not be tolerated as opposed to the SOP of the former regime.

[Shiruzu]

...You guys are so cute together.... :hug:


And this is said by someone, who calls himself a "web ninja".. :roll: :lol:

[Shiruzu]

Theoretically if it did happen as portrayed the US soldiers involved would face serious inquiries and consequences if found guilty. Like Royal posted way back on page 1, professionalism is a must. Executions would not be tolerated as opposed to the SOP of the former regime.

Good point!

[Trigger]

But how in the sweet name of the lord of the flies can you Trigger, say that it is simple logic? Because, my potato-headed friend, it is simple: an obviously badly edited film on an obviously anti-American website that is obviously trying to lead people like you in another anti-American display of ignorance.

You keep on telling us "leftist-liberal-ragheaded-freedom-hating-falafelchomping-ragheaded-commiebastards" I have never called anyone anything like that. I called you an asshead because you are acting like one. to look at these videos with critisism in mind.

Well, you being so tied up in your bias can't see that the movie MIGHT be right, WRONG. I said yes, it may be true, but it may not be true. You can determine neither from the video. Re-read my post before you start chomping on your feet. rather you claim it to be false. Just AS MUCH as "we" claim it to be true.

Can't you see it in that perspective, or you would rather continue making rather pathetic and actually laughable insults like "asshead" instead of adding some constructive critisism to this discussion? This discussion stopped being constructive when you and your buddy failed to acknowledge the facts presented to you.

From the way I see it, this is NOT about everyone-against-USA but rather that there DOES happen TRAGIC, UNJUSTIFIED and CRUEL acts inside the american army AS WELL! The only thing I can make out from that video is, that the US has it's own amount of "assheads" and it is important to understand that NO country is a saint. If that's all you can make out from that video, then you truly need professional help. Stop hating the U.S. long enough to let a little common sense into your mushy little head and your opinions may someday be worthy of listening to.

Thanks for listening, if you didn't and decide to reply anyway, well I only hope you will think before printing.

[USMarine3521]

But how in the sweet name of the lord of the flies can you Trigger, say that it is simple logic?

You keep on telling us "leftist-liberal-ragheaded-freedom-hating-falafelchomping-ragheaded-commiebastards" to look at these videos with critisism in mind.

Well, you being so tied up in your bias can't see that the movie MIGHT be right, rather you claim it to be false. Just AS MUCH as "we" claim it to be true.

Can't you see it in that perspective, or you would rather continue making rather pathetic and actually laughable insults like "asshead" instead of adding some constructive critisism to this discussion?

From the way I see it, this is NOT about everyone-against-USA but rather that there DOES happen TRAGIC, UNJUSTIFIED and CRUEL acts inside the american army AS WELL! The only thing I can make out from that video is, that the US has it's own amount of "assheads" and it is important to understand that NO country is a saint.

Thanks for listening, if you didn't and decide to reply anyway, well I only hope you will think before printing.

pleeeaaaase.....stop trying to rationalize...i mean are you saying you aren't biased either?? i'll admit that us americans are going to be biased, BUT it is so freaking obvious that it's fake hell even jessica simpson or paris hilton can figure this one out why can't you guys see that???

[2Sheds_Jackson]

what's the point of whine about that hes been shot and that he should get medical aid.. hes dead and its war.. and if any one can't get that why are they on a war/military forum in the first place..

I ask you again: Would your reaction be the same, if this was a video that shows Iraqi's killing an US-Soldier that lies on the street? Or a swedish soldier, that lies there in agony ;)

I can remember some reactions after Somalie '93, when some dead US-Soldiers were pulled through the streets, a cheering crowd behind them.... was this the same? Was this "just war" ? ;)

Dooood - don't even go there. :|

Are you saying that you can't see the difference between the Somalia video and this video?

This video shows a wounded combatant, who's still moving around, near his weapon, and may be trying to reach that weapon - and who may still have other weapons we can't see ..and who may also have fellow soldiers out of camera range. Note that in the interview at the end the Marine says "those guys" not "that guy".

Somalia showed obviously dead soldiers who were in no way a threat to anybody. They were just being savaged for the pure enjoyment of it.

To compare the two either shows that you either don’t understand the issues involved (combat, rules of engagement etc) or are hopelessly biased and don't base your arguments in logic.

[Saranof]

Why is it, that every time a video of american soldiers commiting crimes is aired, people here go
"w00t editet, dismiss it all! leftist propaganda, 2 marines killed by bomb yesterday w00t!"

but when some Chechnian rebel airs some video of them attacking russian soldier,s noone complains. Noone claims it may be edited.

Sure, this video probly is edited. You have to, get clip a film together ( :roll: )
Most people here belive that americans soldiers never do anything wrong, but when there is a film of them doing so it's propaganda. This is pathetic. Sure, this guy MAY have been coming at them with an ak47. But then, he may not.
Someone said in the first part of this tread, something about putting him out of his misery.That's a bit shocking, for someone from a modern country to not even think about giving this man medical care, just simply shooting the guy.

Thanks

[NcDeuce]

The title of this thread refers to the author, right?

[Shiruzu]

what's the point of whine about that hes been shot and that he should get medical aid.. hes dead and its war.. and if any one can't get that why are they on a war/military forum in the first place..

I ask you again: Would your reaction be the same, if this was a video that shows Iraqi's killing an US-Soldier that lies on the street? Or a swedish soldier, that lies there in agony ;)

I can remember some reactions after Somalie '93...


...Are you saying that you can't see the difference between the Somalia video and this video?...


Calm down - i just answered to the Blues' post, in which he mentioned, that it is war, and that one shouldn't shed a tear about the iraqi, because it was war(see the underlined phrase).

In Somalia it was war too, but there everybody cared about the dead US-Soldiers - they even made a movie out of it ..... although it was "just war", like Blues would say... ;)

[USMarine3521]

Why is it, that every time a video of american soldiers commiting crimes is aired, people here go
"w00t editet, dismiss it all! leftist propaganda, 2 marines killed by bomb yesterday w00t!"

but when some Chechnian rebel airs some video of them attacking russian soldier,s noone complains. Noone claims it may be edited.

Sure, this video probly is edited. You have to, get clip a film together ( :roll: )
Most people here belive that americans soldiers never do anything wrong, but when there is a film of them doing so it's propaganda. This is pathetic. Sure, this guy MAY have been coming at them with an ak47. But then, he may not.
Someone said in the first part of this tread, something about putting him out of his misery.That's a bit shocking, for someone from a modern country to not even think about giving this man medical care, just simply shooting the guy.

Thanks

for the millionth time why can't you guys see that this is edited!??!?!?!? its so obvious....LOLLLLLL!!!!!! now please excuse me im going to jump out of my window now...

answer: because it's so $*(&%)$#*%& obvious

[Trigger]

Are you guys seriously ignorant to the fact that this is a predominantly American site, frequented by (who else) Americans?
What kind of reaction do you think you're going to get? Cheers?

Seriously. Did you not realize this?

or are you just playing dumb, because you had me fooled.
I'm sure on a Russian site showing clips of Chechen rebels executing Russian soldiers would get the same reaction you get from Americans here.
I say this in case the obvious didn't occur to you...again.

[Shiruzu]

for the millionth time why can't you guys see that this is edited!??!?!?!? its so obvious....LOLLLLLL!!!!!! now please excuse me im going to jump out of my window now...

answer: because it's so $*(&%)$#*%& obvious

Of course it is edited!
But 'edited' can also mean, that they just cut out the 2 mins, the soldier was laying on the street etc.
The fact, that it is edited, doesn't mean, that the whole thing didn't happen in the way, the video shows! :bash:

(It could also be, that the Iraqi was at the Mexican and now just hast stomach-ache and begged the US-Soldiers to kill him because of that... who knows ;) )

[Shiruzu]

Are you guys seriously ignorant to the fact that this is a predominantly American site, frequented by (who else) Americans?
What kind of reaction do you think you're going to get? Cheers?

...

So this means, that Americans can't give an objective answer? ;)

[USMarine3521]

for the millionth time why can't you guys see that this is edited!??!?!?!? its so obvious....LOLLLLLL!!!!!! now please excuse me im going to jump out of my window now...

answer: because it's so $*(&%)$#*%& obvious

Of course it is edited!
But 'edited' can also mean, that they just cut out the 2 mins, the soldier was laying on the street etc.
The fact, that it is edited, doesn't mean, that the whole thing didn't happen in the way, the video shows! :bash:

(It could also be, that the Iraqi was at the Mexican and now just hast stomach-ache and begged the US-Soldiers to kill him because of that... who knows ;) )

have you seen the homepage of that website.......and look at some of the links the have to other news site.... one of them is anti-war.com and aljazeera :roll: no american news

[Fioraon]

If it wasn't edited so what. They cheer, good for them. I doubt they'll cheer when they get the time to reflect on it.

As for the issue of should he have been killed. Well we cant do anything but speculate so even if we can conclude he should have or shouldn't have been killed from what we see we may very well be wrong. If anything dont walk away from the clip thinking those Marines did a bad thing, or a good thing. The video cant conclude anything so I can only hope neither can you from what you see here other then that the Marines killed an Iraqi soldier.

[Shiruzu]

... no american news

'No american news' = 'false news' ?

p-)

[Trigger]

Are you guys seriously ignorant to the fact that this is a predominantly American site, frequented by (who else) Americans?
What kind of reaction do you think you're going to get? Cheers?

...

So this means, that Americans can't give an objective answer? ;)
What part of this is not objective?:
Trigger wrote:

I said yes, it may be true, but it may not be true.
What part do you not understand?
Going round and round like this because you are on the losing side of an argument is why people like me call people like you 'asshead'.

[Fioraon]

... no american news

'No american news' = 'false news' ?

p-)

No American News = One Sided most likely

[USMarine3521]

... no american news

'No american news' = 'false news' ?

p-)

what im saying is the website is obviously anti-US/anti-war

[Shiruzu]

Are you guys seriously ignorant to the fact that this is a predominantly American site, frequented by (who else) Americans?
What kind of reaction do you think you're going to get? Cheers?

...

So this means, that Americans can't give an objective answer? ;)
What part of this is not objective?:
Trigger wrote:

I said yes, it may be true, but it may not be true.

Well, big, blue Monkey: I meant this in general, because you said, that in this forum, the Americans will just defend the US-Troops and don't think about another opinion, even though it could be right! That was exactly the conten of your post(underlined).

[Shiruzu]

... no american news

'No american news' = 'false news' ?

p-)

No American News = One Sided most likely

But American News sometimes = One Sided too ;)

[Ratamacue]

American news has two sides. One is CNN, the other is FOX. CNN is extremely liberal, FOX is extremely conservative. Therefore, it all cancels out. p-)

[USMarine3521]

American news has two sides. One is CNN, the other is FOX. CNN is extremely liberal, FOX is extremely conservative. Therefore, it all cancels out. p-)

lol, good point sir :D :lol:

[Trigger]

Shiruzu wrote:

because you said, that in this forum, the Americans will just defend the US-Troops and don't think about another opinion
WRONG AGAIN!!!!!
I did not say that. I said (paraphrasing) 'don't expect to be greeted with cheers when you come here bashing Americans'
DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Everything I wrote is right there for everyone to see. Just because it doesn't suit you doesn't bother me.

[Blues]

I want to make some clear with this videos and other videos on the net..

Say if i got a PRO USA web page.. i will only post pro american stuff and maybe edit pro american movies.. And there is like 1 pro USA web page on every 1000 ANTI American web page and that's why i don't belive all this crap i see on the internet.. And if no one can get that they realy need to check out the internet again :))

[Shiruzu]

So if posting this video was "bashing Americans", then i got you wrong, my little, blue ape ;)

[Shiruzu]

... And there is like 1 pro USA web page on every 1000 ANTI American web page...


Why do you think, is that?
Are all of these sites made by Al-Kaida and Communists? Or are all the creators of these pages just much more stupid, than the normal US-American?

[Fioraon]

... no american news

'No american news' = 'false news' ?

p-)

No American News = One Sided most likely

But American News sometimes = One Sided too ;)

No ****,

One side + One side = Two sides

Two Sides + Brain = Formation of ones own opinion

That help?

[Blues]

And regarding American always suporting there own troops and there own actions i don't realy think thats true.. I been reding this forum and almoust every post posted this year and as i see it the americans see almoust every movie/picture with Fact and a good sense of whats behind the pictures. As for the non american and almoust every Anti american its goes like this..

A picture.. a picture with a dead iraqi soldier..The anti american would say.. They broke the war laws.. they did wrong.. they shouldn't be in iraq and so on it goes like that in every post and it make me sick.. If that's all the pictures and the movie reweals to ya u cant be that smart.
I like the US and what they doing but im investigating and seeing everything with a non American perspektive but every time i do that it almoust every time ens up in the american favour, The anti USA or ANTI of anything side will always lose becouse they make stuff up more then the pro side does..

just waths south park s7ep13 and u know what im talking about..
Im tired of all this crap and this crap i got to live with every friickin day in sweden and make me sick.. /blues

[Shiruzu]

No ****,

One side + One side = Two sides

Two Sides + Brain = Formation of ones own opinion

That help?

But i bet, your seldomly watching AlJazeera, so again its just:
one side + brain = ... ;)

[Shiruzu]

Blues:
Of course, everyone supports his own country/army , but this mustn't mean, that a critical way of thinking is forbidden.

BTW, i hate these Anti-Everything groups also ;)

[Ratamacue]

Wrong.

CNN + FOX + Brain = Side1 + Side2 +Brain = Formulation of one's own opinion.

[Shiruzu]

Wrong.

CNN + FOX + Brain = Side1 + Side2 +Brain = Formulation of one's own opinion.

So your opinion is just somewhere between FOX and CNN, but -believe it or not- there is something out there, that is even more liberal, than CNN ;) :P

[Blues]

Hey Shiruzu i agree they sucks.. but as for ur opinion i agree on it. all my post here have been in that way that they can't start flame wars and so on. And thats why i only questionin the video and not the action and i think question the action is pretty avois .. they shoot the man dead and so it is.. but the video was edited and a video who is edited should't even be watched or be used to make an opinion

just my thoughts..

[spoonman]

i just want to say it makes me happy to know that there are people out there who will undertake such actions as those marines did in the defense of liberty.

[Roger Rabbit]

wow i go away for a few hours and look what happens. You all have a big argument with out me.

[Shiruzu]

i just want to say it makes me happy to know that there are people out there who will undertake such actions as those marines did in the defense of liberty.

Hooray, your my man! woot


But seriously: Go away and anoy someone else with this :roll:

/edit
i'll go to sleep now...

[SFontaine]

Just a thought that came to me here reading some of the responses. Imagine the outrage and hate messages that would be here if it was an Iraqi tape of an American wounded serviceman being shot like that. I don't think half of the posts in defence of the Marine would be up in defense of an Iraqi for killing in a war zone.

Not that I am picking sides, just playing Devil's Advocate.......

American's are also not known to strap explosives to themselves and blow themselves up when the OPFOR comes to render assitance.

[James]

Was anyon present with the marines and the camera crew when this incident was filmed? I was not, but I am curious if anyone else here was.





















I'm trying to make a point... see if you can figure out what it is...

[Ratamacue]

I'd like everyone to note a key to what the reporter said.


CROWLEY: Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground next to his gun. The Marines kill him -- then cheer.

[Fioraon]

But i bet, your seldomly watching AlJazeera, so again its just:
one side + brain = ... ;)

Well I wouldn't bet the house on it if I was you. Idiot.

[California Joe]

I know stuff.

[Magua]

How the hell can can you judge these Marines based on a twenty second clip? Especially one that was obviously edited and taken out of context.
Furthermore, it looks like the Iraqi was reaching for the weapon laying next to him. But the video is cut in such an abrupt way, that the viewer is prevented from seeing the "big picture". Despite the obvious editing, I don't see a lot wrong with the video in general.

As for the yelling and cheering after the Iraqi is shot, how do you expect 18-21 year old PFCs and L/CPLs to act? The very presence of the camera probably contributed to their gung ho behavior. You can argue about the need for professionalism, but is their cheering that big of a deal?

If I was their platoon commander or platoon sergeant, I wouldn't have done a damn thing to stop them. Except for one thing: I would have forced the cameraman to stop filming, to protect my Marines from the bull**** that the leftist media (example: Communist News Network) likes to publish.

War is hell. Let Marines and Soldiers do their job. If you don't like the way we do it, then tell someone who cares.

[California Joe]

Chingatchkook kicked your ass.

[bob]

for all those saying that the camera view doesn't allow you to see what's going or went on, all the more power to you. I find it interesting that the soldier who the camera shows and seems to point to in the killing of the Iraqi is not cheering (his mouth isn't moving, u can tell b/c there is no movement of the cheekbones), and he has his finger off the trigger. This is rather safe practice, and is carried out quite a bit. This seems to show that the American seems to have a presence of mind. As for the Iraqi, he could be moving his body (or "writhing") in order to free a sidearm. However, the camera doesn't show. Also, this reporter feels so free in calling the marines murderers yet the camerman and his reporter (they always have reporters there), who would have been able to see what the soldiers were going to do, say nothing and do nothing other than focus on the Iraqi for the killing. its almost like they wanted the soldiers to fire and had set it up perfectly to frame the Americans. however, i wasn't there. just some food for thought. i must say, this is rather interesting, as, unless one of those marines comes on, we'll probably never figure out the answer. just saying.

[hank]

For the love of God.

Anybody who thinks they can tell anything from a 20 second clip that has obviouly been edited is crazy. Nobody here has a clue what happened in that clip b/c we have no idea what happened before or after.

Let it go.

The clip is either pro- or anti- American. Either way it is unreliable as provided. There are no conclusions to be drawn from the clip except that a whole lot of people have overactive imaginations that allow them to jump to conclusions.

[rob]

um listen to hank.

spoonman wrote:
i just want to say it makes me happy to know that there are people out there who will undertake such actions as those marines did in the defense of liberty.


Hooray, your my man!


But seriously: Go away and anoy someone else with this

/edit
i'll go to sleep now...

i dont mean to flame but your the one that cant take a hint there body.

and i dont see an corilation of a shooting which the circmstances are not known and images of soldier being dragged and mutilated in the streets. if the american dragged aroun the iraqi i would be pissed. but it didnt happen and quite frankly it doesnt take a large brain to figure that out.

what id deduce from this video, nothing. looking at the source of which it cam e it is MOST LIKELY anti american and edited to show a different view.

[California Joe]

Thank you William F. Buckley.

[hank]

Anything for you Joe.

[Russian Texan]

Would be interesting to see reaction of those who defend marines if something like that was showing Russian soldiers in Chechnya, just a thoght...
I do not know the story behind the tape but I can clearly hear cheering up once the man on the ground gets hit. The proud ones simly finished already wounded man but produced so much emotion about it that one might think that they have taken Iwo Jima again, so much for professional army...

[Fioraon]

lights out

[DE_Six]

So this means, that Americans can't give an objective answer? ;)

No one can give an objective answer. Objectivity is for computers, not for humans. It's a theory, a model, an ideal but it never materializes. Everything that is the product of the human mind is subjective, subject to the individual or group of individuals that spawned it. So no, Americans can't give an objective answer. Nor the Spanish, or the Pakistanis, nor the Balinese. No one and certainly not you either.

Not surprisingly, Americans on this website are offended. No f**king ****. They try to demonstrate the falseness of the message carried by this video. So their answer to it would be biased. You choose to accept it (or refuse to question its grossly executed editing) because it fits your liking. That's all. You're as "objective" as them.

Carry on.

[Blanke]

Would be interesting to see reaction of those who defend marines if something like that was showing Russian soldiers in Chechnya, just a thoght...
I do not know the story behind the tape but I can clearly hear cheering up once the man on the ground gets hit. The proud ones simly finished already wounded man but produced so much emotion about it that one might think that they have taken Iwo Jima again, so much for professional army...

Same thing could be said about you...

Admit it, you're not exactly neutral

As for the video, I'm not even going to pretend I know what went on. War and combat are things that are just so out of bounds of most people. However I will say, in regards to the video, that the people on this board who have BTDT, I'd pay extra close attention to what they have to say...

[ShotOver]

I don't know why anyone is even posting here, unless you are saying exactly this:

"This video is edited, you wernt there, you dont know the situation."


End of story.

[Skaman]

wow, anything to justify heh?

[ShotOver]

Mate, i understand your against the war and all that.

So, you wernt there, what what is there to justify?

[Chris196]

People's reactions are interesting when confronted with REAL violence as opposed to the stuff of Hollywood wet dreams.

[ShotOver]

Yeah, it brings out the hippys.

[martinexsquaddie]

Bite :cantbeli:

[Roger Rabbit]

Munch crunch and lunch

[wreck]

People's reactions are interesting when confronted with REAL violence as opposed to the stuff of Hollywood wet dreams.
After this comment it's just a matter of time until someone posts pictures and videos of dead american G.Is :slap:

[ShotOver]

*looks at his watch*

Yawn, where are the MODS when you need them :roll:

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Of course the video is edited guys, it was done by CNN and as I remeber it played exactly as it was shown on the website. True we were not there, but we get to see the gist of what happened. Now as I see it you have a wounded man writhing in pain rolling around on the ground, is he dangerous sure (for the sake of arguement). But its ironic after they shoot him (first 3 bullets missed :cantbeli: ), they cheer. Now if this is such a battlezone as me you and the rest our led to believe, why are they cheering? Wouldnt that give away your positions? If there was so many "hostiles" around the way why is the camera man outside filming in the first place?

All I know if this was done on an American soldier and taped, you (americans) would be screaming murder. But since its an Iraqi it doesnt seem to matter, which is quite sad. Sure he did have a weapon beside him, but obvioulsy he was in no shape to use it. If you were really so "concerned" about him pulling a grenade or trying to reach for his weapon why not wound him in the legs? This way they would have been able to possibly get some intelligence off of the soldier instead of putting him in a body bag.

Dead people dont talk, a wounded defeated man may at least have something to say.

[XASA]

All I know if this was done on an American soldier and taped, you (americans) would be screaming murder. But since its an Iraqi it doesnt seem to matter, which is quite sad. Sure he did have a weapon beside him, but obvioulsy he was in no shape to use it. If you were really so "concerned" about him pulling a grenade or trying to reach for his weapon why not wound him in the legs? This way they would have been able to possibly get some intelligence off of the soldier instead of putting him in a body bag.

Dead people dont talk, a wounded defeated man may at least have something to say.

You are absolutely right, if it was an American we Americans would be screaming murder. Why? Because it would have been the son, husband or friend of another American. That, my friend, is called nationalism, which means you usually don't have the same feelings or respect for another nationality especially if he was an enemy combatant.

Also, since you are a regular here on militaryphotos.net, I assume you have a rudimentary knowledge about warfare; enough to know that, in combat, you don't shoot to wound but shoot to kill.

As several people have already stated in this post, it's edited footage and it's out of context, so no one can judge the men involved. I would think that if there was a taped record of criminal abuse by an imbedded journalist broadcast on CNN the U.S. military would have pressed charges against the perpetuators as they did against the Lt. Col. for just firing his gun in the air while interrogating a prisoner.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

You are absolutely right, if it was an American we Americans would be screaming murder. Why? Because it would have been the son, husband or friend of another American. That, my friend, is called nationalism, which means you usually don't have the same feelings or respect for another nationality especially if he was an enemy combatant

Well I guess I'm different, sure your fighting against Iraqi's but your not personally fighting them. Its not a personal vendeta. Your fighting what they stand for. You also got to remeber to an Iraqi family that was a son,dad,husband,uncle.

Also I do know that you do shoot to kill, sometimes I believe its better to take someone alive then to leave them dead. Dead men tell no tales.
Just my thoughts good post though Xasa.

[Maj C]

There's probably no point in discussing this further but I feel obligated to say a couple things since I hate for people to think Marines are anything less than the professionals they are. (not that they don't make mistakes - they do) There's two issues that seem to cause people concern here - the shooting of a wounded man and the cheering.

I've talked to two friends who were in OIF. They looked at it and felt it was a clean kill (it's petty that people are making smart ass comments that it took three or more shots - remember these Marines are using iron sights in a firefight - let's see you do it). If he was armed and acted aggressively and continues to move he's a legitimate target. The enemy doesn't become a non-combatant just because he's wounded. How many soldiers through history are considered heroes because they continued to fight despite mortal or life threatening wounds? 1stLt Bobo had a leg blown off, stuck the stump in the mud and continued to kill Vietnamese. 1st Lt Inouye had his right arm blown off by a rifle grenade, pried a grenade out of his dead right hand - threw it with his left and continued to kill Germans firing his tommy gun left handed. A wounded soldier is still a soldier. If the Iraqi had thrown his hands up or lay still - maybe he would have survived..maybe. One only needs to consult history to know that in the middle of a battle there's no guarantees of safety - if that Iraqi wanted to surrender he should have done so before the shooting started. Suggest you consult John Keegan's "Face of Battle" or Richard Holmes "Acts of War" As a British Para said about Tumbledown, " What was I meant to do? Creep around their bunkers and ask if they'd decided to jack in, and would they mind coming out? Of course not. You've got to go in hard, and you can't afford to f*** about." I hate to use a movie as an example, but did anyone think the Germans were wrong to continue shooting at Capt Miller or Sgt Horvath? They were wounded too, but they were still moving and not shouting Kamerad!

Now as to the cheering - maybe our European friends just have a cultural difference but Americans like to cheer - they cheer watching football on TV, they cheer for anything...so when these young men are engaged in the most extreme situation any human can engage in - funny things will happen. An officer of the Fort Garry Horse wrote "This was the first time we'd actually hit German soldiers and the exhilaration, after all the years of training, the tremendous feeling of lift, of excitement, of exhilaration, it was like the first time you go deer hunting." I know people will say war is not a game - but it is - just a pretty frickin' deadly one. For example, British officers at the Somme kicked a football towards the German lines and urged their men to follow it - written on the ball was ""The Great European Cup, The Final, East Surreys v. Bavarians, Kick-off at zero." I know Brits seem to feel that professionals will be all calm and cool during battle but we can't all be like Lord Lovat strolling along with McMillan playing Blue Bonnet. Officers tend to be more this way then enlisted - it's just a matter of maturity and training though. And like I say - I think there's some cultural differences there.

I'm just trying to explain what I think is war...my first gut reaction was oh maybe that was a rather bad thing to do - but on second thought c'est la guerre.

As far as the Russian posters are concerned. I don't know why you think we don't sympathize with your fighting the Chechens. I've seen the videos of them executing Russian prisoners and I agree the Chechens are awful b******ds. We have a common enemy with Muslim extremists so we should be cooperating against these people. I believe my friend said they found Chechens among the Fedayeen volunteers. Believe me we cheered when you killed those guys in the theater - just too bad so many of the hostages got killed. Well enough said, Semper Fi...

[MarineSniper8541]

Has anyone noticed that when the clip starts, he laying flat on the ground, then, when he is shot, HE IS UP ON HIS HANDS AND KNEES AND APPEARS TO BE MOVING AGAIN???!!!! Geee, I wonder....

Bastardchild,

First off, you ALL need to read Major C's post above with special attention to the second paragraph. I can speak from personal experience on this issue. I was wounded in the right shoulder defending the US embassy in 1996. Even though I was wounded, after I regained control of my bodily reaction to the wound, I was still able to function and do my duty. DO NOT second guess a wounded man and judge him as combat ineffective just because he is wounded. THIS IS NOT A PAINTBALL GAME--ONE HIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE OUT.

Secondly,

Until you have experienced combat...no offense, but you really need to just bite your tongue with your lengthy critiques of the situation.

As far as cheering goes, you have no idea what it is like to be in fear for your life every second of the day. If you would just pay attention, you will see a LOT of video footage of combat in which soldiers cheer. You will also see a lot of footage of them cheering DURING firefights. When you cheer in combat, you are not cheering at the death of someone. You are cheering that a threat has been eliminated, or that you have made an enemies attempt to kill one of your brothers backfire on him.

Trust me, those men are not cheering at the loss of a human life and until you are in that situation, you will never understand. The shooting of that Iraqi is no different in the eyes of a soldier engaged in combat than it is when a pinned down unit waits for an aircraft to deliver ordinance on an enemy position, then cheers when the bomb hits. You simply do not understand how different the human emotions are in combat and I do not expect you to.

I don't hold your lack of understanding against you, it's not your fault. But please, ease off on the tongue lashing you are giving those guys when you not only do not know the whole story, but you aslo do not and could not understand what it is like to exist in those conditions.

[Argyll]

Maj C also hit upon this cheering thing as being cultural,and the Brits who are still serving such as Royal and Mark Tigger will testify that if a British soldier showed such emotions he would be severly reprimanded,and given a severe dressing down,it's something I hinted upon before,such is the proffesionalism of the british soldier that it appears at the time they are devoid of any emotion at all.
In the contacts I have been unfortunate to be in,I can assure you I never once heard whoops of joy,or any "Hell yeah" or "go baby go",or any other terms that can be seen as pure elation,for sure it's exciting at 1st then the adrenalin kicks in then ,instinct and training take over,the communication between each other is the only thing that was heard,other than the odd comment like "Fu*k me I just pissed ma sel",which does make you chuckle,especially when the rounds are incoming !!
Humour and elation are also a release mechanism,and I can add too that unless you been in the ****,commenting on a clip that proves nothing other than an ENEMY soldier being killed,is just a waste of time,you may not like what you see,but let me also say you need to get over this,this was nothing!!

[pinkeye]

Maj C also hit upon this cheering thing as being cultural,and the Brits who are still serving such as Royal and Mark Tigger will testify that if a British soldier showed such emotions he would be severly reprimanded,and given a severe dressing down,it's something I hinted upon before,such is the proffesionalism of the british soldier that it appears at the time they are devoid of any emotion at all.
In the contacts I have been unfortunate to be in,I can assure you I never once heard whoops of joy,or any "Hell yeah" or "go baby go",or any other terms that can be seen as pure elation,for sure it's exciting at 1st then the adrenalin kicks in then ,instinct and training take over,the communication between each other is the only thing that was heard,other than the odd comment like "Fu*k me I just pissed ma sel",which does make you chuckle,especially when the rounds are incoming !!
Humour and elation are also a release mechanism,and I can add too that unless you been in the ****,commenting on a clip that proves nothing other than an ENEMY soldier being killed,is just a waste of time,you may not like what you see,but let me also say you need to get over this,this was nothing!!

gotta love british professionalism. i and many others still think the british are the most professional bunch on the block; many militaries could learn a thing or two from britain.
regarding this issue, it was an unfortunate event for all concerned. war sucks...

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

True thanks for your responses guys, I have never been to war and do not know what its like to be in a combat/life or death situation of that sort. Thanks for making me understand it more, but when your a civillian like myself its rather shocking to see.
thanks alot
the bastardchild

[bob]

first off, just would like to say that, to all of u on this who fought for your country, we appreciate it a lot. i'm hearing a lot about personal experience. also, in response to Bastardchild's comment about shooting the iraqi in the leg, that wouldnt do much, as he could still use his weapon. And, as u commented on the lack of precision of the first three rounds (which i can completely understand, using iron sights as has been stated), then how the heck are they gonna hit him in the arm or leg?? as for the cheering, as ive said before, the soldier that the camera shows has no mouth movement whatsoever (watching his cheekbone), so he cant be cheering. so that means the cheering could be added. (or possibly not). as for the comment the british would have been reprimanded for having cheered, how do we know that the marines weren't if they indeed did cheer? too little info for conclusions. on a similar note, the comment that cheering would give their position away is sorta, well, strange. the m-16 is by no means a silent weapon, and im sure that any enemy with an ear could figure out where they were merely by listening for the gunfire. another thing to point out-the soldier shown seems a little too cautious for this to be the end of the encounter. he obviously expects more soldiers. if im wrong here, those of u who have seen combat, feel free to correct me. for those who dont agree with me, thats completely understandable, as this clip leaves way too much to the imagination for our biases not to come into play.

[SFontaine]

gotta love british professionalism. i and many others still think the british are the most professional bunch on the block; many militaries could learn a thing or two from britain.
regarding this issue, it was an unfortunate event for all concerned. war sucks...

And I suppose the Americans are a bunch of trigger happy cowboys?

[Fioraon]

gotta love british professionalism. i and many others still think the british are the most professional bunch on the block; many militaries could learn a thing or two from britain.
regarding this issue, it was an unfortunate event for all concerned. war sucks...

Still do hand jobs?

Nah, just playing with ya mate. Cheers

[Jack Mehoff]

gotta love british professionalism. i and many others still think the british are the most professional bunch on the block; many militaries could learn a thing or two from britain.
regarding this issue, it was an unfortunate event for all concerned. war sucks...

And I suppose the Americans are a bunch of trigger happy cowboys?

Nah, we are just happen to be 10x bigger than British armed forces and under the world's media microscope 24/7 :D

[MarineSniper8541]

Click on the link below.

If you read the actual transcript of the broadcast, it clears up a hell of a lot and makes evident that the clip shown above is indeed edited.

It is a report on killing in combat and the tolls it takes on the men who have to do it. Don't view that video clip without reading this or you will assume what most critics of this video clip obviously already have.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5369.htm



.

[DE_Six]

Lt.Col. Dave Grossman wrote an excellent book about the process of "removing the safety catch", that is enabling the human mind to deliberately kill a fellow human. The title is "On Killing". It offers an excellent perspective on a very difficult subject, and what comes out of it is how impossible it is to understand what goes on in the mind of the soldier who kills without experiencing it. The battlefield is an emotion-filled place, many of these emotions inexistants outside of battle. As someone who has never killed a human being, I got the impression that what Grossman was reporting (he admits to have never killed in combat) was way beyond understanding to the layperson. So when I watch this video, the only thing I can do is keep from judging. Killing is f**ked-up, as f**cked-up as it gets and so far, no training, no drill has been effective at preparing men for it.

I had the opportunity to work with British soldiers. They are one professional bunch, I have no doubt they're some of the most professional soldiers out there. But I could say the same of the US soldiers I encountered. I think the reaction to the stress of combat has more to do with maturity than drill. Veteran SAS troopers are probably as cool under fire as US Special Forces, and equally, young, 18-y.o. Marines are as jumpy, nervous and overwhelmed by emotions as 18-y.o. Paras. That drill can eliminate what are normal human reactions to stress is, escuse me, wishful thinking. At least, no army has ever achieved it according to extensive studies by both psychologists and military historians. One other good book about this is "No More Heroes", by Richard Gabriel. It does a pretty good job at debunking the myths about soldiers' behaviors under fire.

Those two books offer a pretty good insight at the psychological strain of combat, given how tough it is to translate those emotions into words.

Just my .02 cents.

[usa320]

Upon watching the move again, i agree

1. The video is edited as ****.

2. The Iraqi did appear to be rolling in a last effort to grab a weapon to his right.

3. Had i been in that situation i would have shot him too.

[Argyll]

Edited to suit
My observations.
1.You can see his AK lying beside the wall to his left
2.He was rolling away from it
3.He's hit as he attempts to get on all fours
4.The shouts of delight accompanied by the shooting you can clearly hear a voice saying "you got him" along with sounds of Euphoria


*edit*
As for this crap about using iron sights,looking at the distance the target looks no more than 200m,so why an excuse about iron sights,you are trained with Iron sights ,and shoot to distances of 300+ with the same sights so what is everyone going about them for?

[Maj C]

Actually we're trained to shoot out to 500 m with iron sights but combat shooting is completely different from shooting on the range. plus it looks like they were firing in the off-hand which most people don't have a chance of hitting a bull from 200+m. It's irrelavent. The point is - he was fair game. Like I said, if he didn't want to get shot - he should've raised his hands before any shooting started. as you Brits say "Too late chum"

I've already explained the cheering..who gives a crap what they say? they're in combat for God's sakes.

[ibstolidude]

I love that sight....

"The news CNN won't show you!"

as it shows a CNN news clip ???

:|

[Fioraon]

CNN never showed news to start with...

[Royal]

First off, you ALL need to read Major C's post above with special attention to the second paragraph.

I have read it, and my respect goes out to a fellow Marine and Officer. I fully accept the points about men carrying on fighting despite horific wounds - the annals both of both our Corps are full of such examples.

From my viewing of the edited clip, I am still doubtfull that the Iraqi presented a risk to the Coalition troops - but I wasn't there on the ground and so have no way of second guessing the officer/NCO i/c and the shoooter - they are the men that will have to live with the consequenses of their actions if the wounded man really was of no threat.

I would take issue with Maj C's comments on iron sights - a good combat shot (and IMHO any Marine should be a good combat shot) should be able to snap shoot accurately to at least 50 metres with an iron sighted rifle or carbine.

I also fully agree with Argyll on the cultural differences between our great nations. If a Marine under my command cheered during a firefight (or shouted anything other than an FCO, request for ammo or medical aid) I (or nowadays more likely my Sergeant Major) would have serious 'words :bash: ' after the event. But that is simply yet another example of "two great nations divided by a common language!"

[Maj C]

Royal, you're absolutely right - the iron sights are not that big an issue - I'm not sure of the range of the shots - I was just irked by the comments of some that said "oh these guys suck look at how many shots it took to hit him". I mean real life isn't moving mouse crosshairs over a person and clicking.

Our two great Corps will always share a common bond of valor - despite what some say - we have much more in common than you do with the EU. We have an exchange Royal Marine LtCol working in our Futures Warfighting Dept and I can explicitly recall the Color Sgt who taught us Physcial Conditioning at Officer Candidate School and the LtCol who taught us about Northern Ireland at the Basic School.

A funny story about Brits being imperturbable - before the LtCol came to give the class they warned the Boston Irish 2ndLt's to not say anything. When the class started - sure enough some wise ass from Boston said "When are the British going to leave Northern Ireland?" And with absolute calm and in that James Bond kind of rico suave voice the Col said "Northern Ireland has always been a part of Great Britain, and always will be." I remember the whole company just jumping up and cheering because it was such a put down - another case of Yanks cheering where Brits might remain silent instead. Anyways, best of luck to you and Semper Fi,

Royal Marines...to your duties...quick....march!!

edited out a comment about St David...that's actually a message passed between the USMC and The Royal Welch Fusiliers (not the Royal Marines) since the Boxer Rebellion.

[TriggerPuller]

It is a War. People get killed in War. if one of my Marines would have looked at me and said Sir I cant shoot that man I would have shot the enemy combatant myself(for thats what he is) and then buttstroked my Marine for being a coward then sent him up for judicial punishment. In the middle of a firefight you dont have time to question,it's you or him! you dont go into the Marines to get your college money you go in to kill the enemy and go home at the end of the day mission accomplished. **** that Iraqi how many Marines did he ambush before he was killed? Dont comment on these marines/soldiers till you been in their shoes when the bullets are flying and maybe after you have seen your best buds killed in a truck bombing you will think differently before you hesitate!

TP

[WARPIG]

Won't comment on whether the clip is a valid one or not but maybe we should keep that in mind.
Also.. people do stupid things. US soldiers, Americans, and the rest of the world included. No one claims the US military as flawless. Put the power to kill in the hands of several hundred thousand young men and women...I think you can expect some horrible things to happen once and a while. Be careful to not take it out of context though.
The video I am attempting to attatch looks realistic enough.. except that people know it is not. Think of what this kind of technology can do for more serious applications.... like the subject of this post.

http://65.164.129.41/media/salmon.asf

[budanski]

lol Warpig. That commercial is a classic on www.adcritic.com :D

[JunglistSoldier]

Cheering.. hell yeah.

Look, doctors in ICUs and ERs all over the world joke about PTs dying and what not.. Insensitive? Maybe, but those docs confront the grim reaper each and every day and you just need to bow that steam off. Same with Soldiers in a warzone. These young men area t CONSTANT mortal risk, so don't rape them over cheering at doing thier job. Thats their way of blowing off the steam.

[He219]

Notice the 'out of context' nature and scene splits (look at the ticker)...

An interesting quote regarding this video:


The current policy in Iraq is to SHOOT ON SIGHT ANYBODY emplacing IEDs....yes, those nasty little roadside bombs that have killed almost 200 of our service personnel. But of course, given the very OBVIOUS leftist slant of your website, it is apparent that you wouldn't see fit to report all the facts, choosing instead to attempt to use such media to advance your faltering liberal agenda, rather than condemn a terrorist agenda. Where on your website do you report the assassinations by terrorists who only hope to get their country back up and running, or the indiscriminate bombings that kill innocent, non-combatant Iraqis? - Capt. Kimber


I cannot believe you want us to believe that the video you show of the US Marines killing that man is anything but a propaganda issue? Why didn't you include the part where this character was laying in ambush for the Marine patrol to wlak by? Why didn't you show the part where he is rigging an improvised explosive device to go off the next convoy that drives by it? - Warrant Officer Simon


Just look at the the host site:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info

Enough said.

[WARPIG]

Just to make things a little more simple for those un-informed flamers out there. US Marines are the militaries' thugs. We put the Marines in the worst positions with the worst intel and worst survival rates. (Generally speaking.) They are our most aggresive force. They train to get in there and make that initial strike. Fast, hard, aggressive, and ugly. Any mission more sensative than that is a big stretch for Marines. So even though I think the stream is doctored, it isn't really that far from the truth. Just that little piece of the whole situation is easily taken out of context and doesn't really give us a picture of what really went on. Maybe it was worse than we think, maybe it was completely justified. If your taking this little piece of video stream litterally .. well, your stupidity speaks for itself.

[TriggerPuller]

Just to make things a little more simple for those un-informed flamers out there. US Marines are the militaries' thugs. We put the Marines in the worst positions with the worst intel and worst survival rates. (Generally speaking.) They are our most aggresive force. They train to get in there and make that initial strike. Fast, hard, aggressive, and ugly. Any mission more sensative than that is a big stretch for Marines. So even though I think the stream is doctored, it isn't really that far from the truth. Just that little piece of the whole situation is easily taken out of context and doesn't really give us a picture of what really went on. Maybe it was worse than we think, maybe it was completely justified. If your taking this little piece of video stream litterally .. well, your stupidity speaks for itself.Warpig, while I agree with most of your post I would not describe us as "thugs". More like Americas 911 force. take care

TP

[WARPIG]

Spoken like a true Devil Dog! Ha ha!
No offense intended but I meant that there are boxers and fighters.. the former use tactics and technique, the latter uses aggression and power. We know which the Marines are. We can't expect restraint in a fighter nor can we expect the boxer to rely on aggression.


I still believe that this little piece was doctored .. but if we assume it is not... what does it mean?

It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it.
Robert E. Lee (1807 - 1870)

If you are trained to kill.. you kill. Maybe there is a small group of people who actually take joy in it. Only Americans? Only Marines? Puhlease.
What is more believable.. the whole platoon of Marines actually take joy in killing defenseless people? Or maybe this was taken out of context? Maybe the celebration and percieved enjoyment is a defense mechanism for the extreme stress of being used as a killing tool in war? What.. is this all new? Never heard of combat stress.. peer pressure... psychological mechanisms? People.. please.. thing for yourselves!
Little things affect little minds. I think a lot of people like to take this stuff out of context just to feel comfort in their own ignorance.

[TriggerPuller]

Spoken like a true Devil Dog! Ha ha!
No offense intended but I meant that there are boxers and fighters.. the former use tactics and technique, the latter uses aggression and power. We know which the Marines are. We can't expect restraint in a fighter nor can we expect the boxer to rely on aggression.


I still believe that this little piece was doctored .. but if we assume it is not... what does it mean?

It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it.
Robert E. Lee (1807 - 1870)

If you are trained to kill.. you kill. Maybe there is a small group of people who actually take joy in it. Only Americans? Only Marines? Puhlease.
What is more believable.. the whole platoon of Marines actually take joy in killing defenseless people? Or maybe this was taken out of context? Maybe the celebration and percieved enjoyment is a defense mechanism for the extreme stress of being used as a killing tool in war? What.. is this all new? Never heard of combat stress.. peer pressure... psychological mechanisms? People.. please.. thing for yourselves!
Little things affect little minds. I think a lot of people like to take this stuff out of context just to feel comfort in their own ignorance.Great post. You have more skills of reasoning when it comes to this topic. I wish the people that frequent this board with their skewed anti American liberalism would just look at it from a trained warrior standpoint but what can we expect from those who cower from behind their PC'S.

TP

[Trigger]

Nice quote there TP.
Hemingway? I think.
Always liked that one.

[TriggerPuller]

Nice quote there TP.
Hemingway? I think.
Always liked that one.Give that man a prize! Good job trigger.according to some around here Iam just a dumb yank(ha ha) but I like fine art,fine wine,fine literature and fine women and not necessarily in that order! Take care

TP

[budanski]

Hey, you guys related? ;)

[Johnnyringo]

You almost had Ms. Lister beat!

"Just to make things a little more simple for those un-informed flamers out there. US Marines are the militaries' thugs. We put the Marines in the worst positions with the worst intel and worst survival rates. (Generally speaking.) They are our most aggresive force. They train to get in there and make that initial strike. Fast, hard, aggressive, and ugly. Any mission more sensative than that is a big stretch for Marines. So even though I think the stream is doctored, it isn't really that far from the truth. Just that little piece of the whole situation is easily taken out of context and doesn't really give us a picture of what really went on. Maybe it was worse than we think, maybe it was completely justified. If your taking this little piece of video stream litterally .. well, your stupidity speaks for itself."


At a public seminar on Oct. 26, Mrs. Lister took verbal aim at the Marine Corps.

"I think the Army is much more connected to society than the Marines are," Mrs. Lister told the conference sponsored by Harvard University's John M. Olin Institute for Strategic Studies.

"The Marines are extremists," she added, according to a tape of the conference, as first reported Thursday by The Washington Times.

"Wherever you have extremists, you've got some risks of total disconnection with society," Mrs. Lister continued. "And that's a little dangerous."

Thugs... Extremists...

That's WELL DRESSED thug extremists to you f*cko's

[Haiw]

I wanted to stay outta this one, but just trying to throw in a little perspective;

Let's imagine the Marines were the one fighting guerilla warfare, and planting ****ytraps near convoy routes etc. etc. Let's imagine of 'em get shot and is wounded...he's hurt badley, rolling away from his weapon, and clearly poses no threat... Let's imagine the OPFOR's would simply shoot him from like a 100 meters. My guess is this discussion would have looked a whole lot different... :roll:

I mean, I hate to say it, but Geneva Conventions say you have to supply medical attention to a wounded soldier, not shoot him again... No matter what the soldier had done before that, or what the hell is going on in the entire theather or what you were trained to do...

[Steve Andrews]

Those clips of the bulldozer shoving corpses at Belsen is edited too...right?

[MarineSniper8541]

I wanted to stay outta this one, but just trying to throw in a little perspective;

Let's imagine the Marines were the one fighting guerilla warfare, and planting ****ytraps near convoy routes etc. etc. Let's imagine of 'em get shot and is wounded...he's hurt badley, rolling away from his weapon, and clearly poses no threat... Let's imagine the OPFOR's would simply shoot him from like a 100 meters. My guess is this discussion would have looked a whole lot different... :roll:

I mean, I hate to say it, but Geneva Conventions say you have to supply medical attention to a wounded soldier, not shoot him again... No matter what the soldier had done before that, or what the hell is going on in the entire theather or what you were trained to do...

Nice misinterpretation of the Convention there, Haiw.

It's people like you who cause issues like this to become inflated and out of context. The Convention does decree that aid will be rendered to enemy soldiers. But you are misinterpreting it. The enemy combatant has to have either surrendered, or been effectivelycaptured.
The Iraqi in that video clip does not meet any of that criteria.

Just because you see him laying there does not mean it was safe for the Marines to approach him and capture him. There is a reason those Marines are still behind that wall and not walking up to him, kicking his rifle away and subduing him.

[Haiw]

I know, but the guy is clearly out of the fight, and I'm not saying they should walk up to him and apply medical attention, but it's kind of the other extreme to just shoot him...

[German_American]

After watching that video and looking at the comments from the vets about it, I want to join the Corps even more. I love how the left calls the Marines extremist now...Im surprised they didn't call the Marines the SS of America. How about they pick up a rifle for the country they claim to love. They wouldn't give 2 cents to help make a bullet. I also wonder if they think the radical Islamic terroist are extremist or freedom fighters trying to beat back the facist United States. I hope those bastards in commie land rott in hell and for that Iraqi, I hope hes having a good time with Hitler and Saddam's sons.

[Argyll]

Displaying that type of talk is pathetic coming from a person who wishes to Join the Corps,especially as an Officer,I think unless you've been in a situation like that presented then you should keep your opinions to yourself,and let guys such as TP,Mooch and Maj C ,who have been in that situ speak on behalf of the Corps.
Its phrases such as the ones you used that shows a distinct lack of proffesionalism,something that the Corp is proud of,in that they ARE proffesionals,you sir have a lot to learn!

[German_American]

Sorry if you din't understand what I ment, I guess you took it the wrong way. I guess it was harsh to say I hope he is enjoying hell, but thats just the way I feel. Im not going to spend 3 hours trying to explain what I ment, but atleast im not going in saying I hoped they helped the guy going for his weapon.

[German_American]

Also I don't recall saying anything on behalf of the Corps, I just said from what I read those men who have been there just gives me more drive to join. I also just commented on the left I never said the Corps is this or that or i speak for them. I do have a lot to learn and thanks to men like you im learning already.

[Argyll]

I understand fully whatt you meant,you were displaying a personal emotion,if and when you are fortunate to command guys in combat,you'll realise that what you said reflects upon your character,and if the men under your command see or hear you behave in a mannner that lacks proffesionalism,they will exploit it,and will undermine your authority,what's good for the goose is whats good for the gander as they say!!

[German_American]

Mind you I am at the young age of 17, and I cant completly realize by saying "We got the bastard!" and "That damn commie Hillary is at it again" that my men will see that I am immature and take advantage of me. Personally I don't see how they could take advantage me unless I let them say things like that. I mean I do have many years of learning ahead of me, but just to let you know you have much more experience then me so I don't see the consequnces as clearly as you.

[Argyll]

Well no probs GA,stick in there and make your men proud of you,earn their respect and they WILL go to hell and back for you! ;)

[German_American]

Good to hear! :D

[NcDeuce]

Yo mama!

[gaboki]

its war war is hell...
no excuse american soldiers have been destroying there enemys stuff and doin stuff like that since the revoultionary war..
but you cant only blame the us on that either

[WARPIG]

Looks like the usual simple minds took my "thug" referance out of context. I hope most of you understood what I meant. Well, the true Devil Dogs in the house know where I am coming from.
It doesn't matter if this little piece of video is real or doctored... it is a tiny window of the whole scenario. If we don't see the whole thing, we shouldn't be able to draw much of a conclusion. It looks bad but then again.. how much of combat would look good? How do you think some of the incoming fire from an Iraqi perspective looks in any situation? Any firefight taken in little pieces would look just as bad. Throw in a few dumbass comments from some 19 year old grunt... well there you go.

[TacoDelRio]

Oh yeah, that's right. People DIE in war. Ain't that a concept?

I'm suprised some of you are suprised.

[NcDeuce]

He was obviously posing a threat, so had to be taken out. Right guys..?

Pricks.

http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative11.jpg

[papasmerf]

Why are the Marines being targeted for this incident anyway? As Americans we are all on the same side, and we follow the same codes and rules during the war. I don't think Army guys would've done anything differently, or any other branch of US military. Anyway, I'm not saying what they did was right, because I wasn't there, and the video doesn't show a lot of what happened. So the topic shouldn't be "A Marine kills an Iraqi" but "A U.S. serviceman kills an Iraqi", I think that's fair. Hopefully you get my point.

[Vance]

He was obviously posing a threat, so had to be taken out. Right guys..?

Pricks.

http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative11.jpg
Seconded.