Canada Gets New PM as Jean Chretien Steps Down

[Seoulstriker]

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,105564,00.html


Canada Gets New PM as Jean Chretien Steps Down

Friday, December 12, 2003



OTTAWA — Jean Chretien said he was proud of his decade in office as Canada's often combative prime minister prepared to give way Friday to Paul Martin, a conservative former finance minister who has pledged to seek smoother ties with the United States despite strains over Iraq.

Martin, who was being sworn in as prime minister on Friday, has been a powerful figure for years in the governing Liberal Party (search) and overwhelmingly won a leadership election after Chretien announced his retirement plans earlier this year.

Chretien, raised in a Quebec mill town, was one of the longest-serving heads of government among major Western nations. He enjoyed a warm friendship with former President Clinton, but relations with the Bush administration have been tense due to Canada's refusal to join the war in Iraq.

Martin, considered slightly more conservative than Chretien on some issues, has expressed interest in improving ties with Washington, for example by forming a Cabinet-level committee dedicated to Canadian-U.S. relations.

However, he spoke critically this week of President Bush's plan to exclude countries outside the U.S.-led coalition from bidding on lucrative rebuilding contracts in Iraq. Bush's decision was "difficult to fathom," said Martin, indicating he would raise the issue with American officials.

Chretien said Bush called him on Thursday to congratulate him on his career, express thanks for Canada's deployment of troops in Afghanistan and suggest that there might be some flexibility regarding the contract ban.

"He was basically telling me not to worry," Chretien told reporters Thursday after his last Cabinet meeting in Ottawa (search), the capital.

Chretien, who was sworn in as prime minister in 1993 and turns 70 in January, had planned to retire in February but agreed to leave earlier after pressure from Martin, Liberal Party members and opposition parties.

"We had a good kick at the can," Chretien said. "We are proud of what we have done collectively."

Chretien angered Bush earlier this year by refusing to contribute Canadian forces to the Iraq war, prompting the U.S. president to cancel a planned visit to Ottawa in May. Previously, some of Chretien's subordinates publicly ridiculed Bush over his unilateral policies; one aide was dismissed after calling the president a "moron."

Bush and Martin could hold their first official meeting at the Summit of the Americas (search) in Mexico in January. Iraq might not be the only contentious topic; though the two nations are the world's largest trading partners, they have long-standing trade disputes over lumber and other commodities.

On the domestic front, Martin, 65, is a fiscal conservative credited with balancing Canada's budget during his nine years as finance minister. He is expected to call for national elections early next year and would be the favorite to win a full five-year term over any opposition candidate.

The Liberals' biggest domestic challenge is to rebuild major programs that have been cramped by reduced spending, including the military, the universal health care system and education. Martin also inherits two high-profile pieces of social legislation from Chretien — proposals to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana and legalize gay marriage.

The new finance minister, according to Canadian news reports, will be Ralph Goodale, who had been Chretien's public works minister, while Foreign Minister Bill Graham reportedly was in line to keep his post.

Martin reportedly was planning to create a new public security portfolio in his Cabinet, combining the oversight of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (search), the national intelligence agency, and the departments controlling borders and ports.

Martin entered politics in 1988 after a career heading Canada Steamship Lines. His father, also named Paul, was a long-serving Cabinet minister who lost bids for the Liberal Party leadership.

[marktigger]

will the canadian military fare any better under martin?

[EvanL]

A little, but hes still a liberal. A right wing liberal.

[Falco]

Can't be any worse then with Chrétien

[hedgehog]

You have to admit though, through Chretien's time in office, Canada has outperformed all the other G7 nations. The one thing that I did like about him was that often spoke his mind without sugercoating it while listening to facts and not rhetoric. You don't see that very often in world leaders. Main drawback I found was that he was too slow to reach those decisions. ie waiting to see on which side of the fence the ball would fall. I hope Martin will take on his responsibility as a leader and for the Canadian people and not developing laws that better his own financial gains. Just hope he doesn't become a Bush ass kisser.

[Pille1234]

Can't be any worse then with Chrétien

Do you get new helicopters now? I read somewhere, that the old seakings are only allowed to fly in case of real emergency. Is there already a decision, which type will replace them?
EH101 would be ridiculous.

[hedgehog]

Hope they go for the NH90. All the Europeans are replacing their Sea kings with it. New design, lots coming off the assembly line and great performance stats. One of the few helos that can fly upside down. Caused quite an alarm in Ottawa when they were demonstrating it. SOme people thought someone had taken control of it and wanted to crash it :)

[Maverick77]

Youll see the Canadian Military's payroll jump a few billion now.

Its already going to go up 1.2 billion

(at leasts its better than 1.2 billion less like chretien would of done)

[Whistler]

Let me be the first to say...

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!!!!

Like Evan said, he's still a Liberal, but I can't help not being ecstatic! Chretien is gone! Wooohooo!

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Ya he waited to long to make decisions for sure, he usually played it safe instead of taking risks at times. Hopefully Martin will do a better job at being quicker on the draw, plus he is alot easier for others to understand when he speaks unlike chretien. ;)

[Vance]

A little, but hes still a liberal. A right wing liberal.
Wait, what? ;)

[duck]

Sounds like my long lost brother. p-)

[Whistler]

A little, but hes still a liberal. A right wing liberal.
Wait, what? ;)

Its hard to explain... in Canada the Liberal Party isn't necessarily full of liberals, as in left wingers. Its more of a centrist party, some are a little left of centre, some are far left of centre, and some are a little right of centre. Paul Martin sounds like one of the right ones. The Liberal Party itself is actually a lot less liberal than it was back when Trudeau was running things.

The same could be said about the "Progressive Conservative" party. They were called "Conservatives", but there were a lot of people in the party that were social Liberals (known as "red tories").

The most "liberal" party in Canada is the NDP, aka New Democratic Party.

[Marxist203]

Yeah, it raised a big huff, because Martin is more of a conservative. The thing you gotta understand about Canadian politics is we have more than two parties ;)

We gots the Liberals, which are Liberal but not really...cause they have right wingers in the party too. Which makes it strange really. The premier of my province, British Columbia is being run by the "Liberal Party" but the majority of the idiots used to run for the So-creds or the Social Credit party...but the so-creds formed the Alliance with the reform party. But anyway...We have an extreme right winger ****ing up the province right now while claiming to be a liberal.

Then you have the real liberal hippy types, the NDP or New Democratic Party...they work great on a provincial scale but when it comes to running a country, well, I dont even want to think about it.

We got the "New Alliance" which is a conglomeration of the Social Credit Party, the Reform party and now apparently the old Conservative party. These guys take right wing to the max...wanting to eliminate health care and all.

Of course we also have the green party, but who cares about them.

Yeah...Im 18 years old by the way, why do I know so much about Canadian politics? cause, in Canada its like a blood sport! better than
hockey man...all the twists and turns and **** haha.

[Whistler]

Whoops, looks like me and Marxist posted the same thing at the same time rofl .

[Whistler]

By the way, EvanLloyd, are you from Ottawa?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Marxist203 and Whistler good posts, all we need is fights like the Tiawanese governments and trading cards and Canadian politics would be great to watch.

[EvanL]

By the way, EvanLloyd, are you from Ottawa?
yes i am.
how come? you know me?

[Falco]

Hope they go for the NH90. All the Europeans are replacing their Sea kings with it. New design, lots coming off the assembly line and great performance stats. One of the few helos that can fly upside down. Caused quite an alarm in Ottawa when they were demonstrating it. SOme people thought someone had taken control of it and wanted to crash it :)

Why not the Seahawk, it would be better for fleet interoperability with the americans.

[Whistler]

By the way, EvanLloyd, are you from Ottawa?
yes i am.
how come? you know me?

Nah, I saw you mentioned the Cameron Highlanders in another thread though and I know thats the Regiment for the capital region.

I live in Ottawa too BTW :D .

[EvanL]

By the way, EvanLloyd, are you from Ottawa?
yes i am.
how come? you know me?

Nah, I saw you mentioned the Cameron Highlanders in another thread though and I know thats the Regiment for the capital region.

I live in Ottawa too BTW :D .
I havent lived in ottawa since 97, but i come back this summer. Where do you live? p-)

[Whistler]

By the way, EvanLloyd, are you from Ottawa?
yes i am.
how come? you know me?

Nah, I saw you mentioned the Cameron Highlanders in another thread though and I know thats the Regiment for the capital region.

I live in Ottawa too BTW :D .
I havent lived in ottawa since 97, but i come back this summer. Where do you live? p-)

I'm in the South End. Around Altavista Dr... not too far from Billings Bridge bus station/mall.

[Pille1234]

Why not the Seahawk, it would be better for fleet interoperability with the americans.

Interoperability doesn't necessarily mean using identical equipment.

[hedgehog]

Various reasons:

The NH 90 is (becoming the new mittle class TTH for Nato forces. Right now 690 are scheduled to be coming off the assembly line. Sweden, Finland, France, germany, Norway, Portugal, Italy, Netherlands. The sea hawk in its various configs is in service to my knowledge only with the US, Australia, Japan and Spain. You could justify a decision solely on this, as more users means lower life cycle costs. SPare parts, commonized training, lower assembly costs, interoperability etc.

The S-70B (SH-60B Seahawk) is a design from the early 70s. As good as it is, one cannot really compare the two. The GET700-GE-700 turboshafts in the s-70 only have a continuous rating of 1560 shp (x 2) whereas the NH 90 has 2230shp continuous (x2) which allows it to have a much higher internal payload. A larger size is required by the canadian forces due to the requirement that the helicopter can perform numerous duties. ex ferry troops/personel carg, anti sub, anti air support, SAR. A lot of equipment is required for anti sub missions where the larger size is required. Whereas the hawk could carry 11 troops, the NH 90 has crash worthy seats for 20 troops.

The main advantage is the composite fuselage of the NH90, which makes it ideal to operate in the salty air of the north atlantic. A retractable landing gear, folding rear tail to allow operation on small ships, 2 sliding doors (s-70 only has it on the right) plus a rear loading ramp.

The biggest advantage though will be that it only requires 2.5 man hours maintenance for each flight hour due to its internal monitoring system. The hawk doesn't even come close to it in this regard. The S-60 also only has a 600 km range, and this includes the 30 minute reserve.
SO, no real comparison, even though the SH-60 is a good helicopter


http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=155073

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=121293

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=155074

[hedgehog]

Totally forgot.. the thing also looks WAY better!

[Whistler]

I think the EH101 is the frontrunner at the moment.

That is the helicopter we ordered in 1993 (2 versions, 1 for SAR, one for ASW).

Then Chretien got elected and cancelled it, wasted a lot of cash in the process too.

Then in the late 90s he ordered the same helos again, but only the SAR versions (which we have now). Since we already have the SAR ones, it makes sense that we'd buy the ASW version again too for logistic purposes. Why have 2 totally different helos when you can have 2 similar ones that use the same pilot training, mechanics, electronics, etc.

All in all we shouldn't even be having this discussion because the Government should have dealt with this problem 10 years ago :fork: .

The NH90 guys really are pushing their helo too though, it might get interesting.

I'm not sure if the Sea Hawk is even being offered. I think Sikorsky's entry is a newer design, if we buy that we will be one of the first customers.

Here are the competitors:
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-ch1482.htm

[Pille1234]

Then Chretien got elected and cancelled it, wasted a lot of cash in the process too.

That's why I didn't believe you would buy the EH 101 (again). But if the chopper is already in service, then it shouldn't be a question which one to buy.

[Whistler]

Ya, that was one of the things in the news over it. The Government was bickering over the decision because they didn't want to buy the same choppers and make Chretien look like a fool for cancelling them in the first place.

But, Chretiens gone now, and we already have the EH-101 as a SAR helo, so the choice does seem kind of obvious.

All of them (EH-101, NH-90, S-92) look like GREAT aircraft though... I'm sure the Sea King pilots will be happy with any one of them, the sooner the better rofl .

[hedgehog]

I never understood why there was so much complaining about the Sea King. I mean all these other countries are still using theirs, so I don't think it was as critical as the military made it out to be. Older aircraft need more maintenance, but that does not mean they are unsafe. Just because you have a crash you cannot condemn the airframe. I think everything would be grounded if we went by that. The Sea king was and is a damn fine piece of equipment, but I can understand people wanting to fly the latest technology has to offer. Look at some of the stuff they are still flying around the world. ex. Italy still has starfighters in service, B 52s in the states from the 50s etc

[Whistler]

IMO, if anything, the problems with the Sea Kings are downplayed by the military and Government.

Just ask some of the guys who have to fly them. Its not pleasant. Not only are they constantly having engine failures and problems, they need over 30 hours of work for every 1 hour of flight. Not too cost efficient eh. They are a constant source of embarassment for the military.

I remember the former PM (I love saying that :lol: ) used the excuse "Well George Bush flies in a Sea King so its good enough for our soldiers".

Without going into how stupid that statement is, I'll just say I wish he'd say that to the families of all the guys who have died in them, or have near death experiences every flight... or better yet, practice what he preaches and use a CAF Sea King as his personal transport for a few months rofl .

They are the weakest link in Canadian naval capability. We bought a bunch of shiny new frigates a few years back and they can't even do their job at 100% because of the constant helo problems. The sooner we fix the problem the better.

[marktigger]

yes but you also had the same problem with the Ch46. I would say Merlin is the front runner for your sea king replacement unless the Govt get the head staggers and replace griffon with UH60.
Interesting the S-92 was ordered by ireland then cancelled on orders of the supreme court due to dirty dealings.

[Falco]

The EH-101 or CH-149 are already in service with the SAR (I think) so that means that the deal is pretty much sealed for the ship board helo requirement.