Any idea why..?

[Vance]

Some soldiers in the regular infantry divisions (3rd ID, so on) use M4's instead of M16s? I thought M4s were only for specialized divisions.

[Duke]

The preference of M4s to M16 is due to the distance of engagements. Most engagements in Iraq will tend to be short engagements,such as house to house, and thus the benefits of the longer bbl and fixed stock of the M16 donot outweigh the benefits of the shorter bbl and collapsable stock of the M4. In tight situations swinging your muzzle is easier with a shorter rifle, thus a quicker reaction time to threats and plus you cant beat the fore grip on a M4.

[Zoomie]

Also don't forget that the 3ID is a mechanized force. Which means that a rifle is restrictive, and a carbine would be ideal for use while riding in a tank.

[JTFazz]

The M4 has an advantage over the M16 for close quarters combat and is much easier to get in and out of vehicles and aircraft for air mobile and mechanized forces. The M16's only distinct advantage is accuracy, but in close quarters fighting, the M4 is plenty accurate.

My understanding is the DoD is developing a new light assault weapon -- in addition to the OICW -- that is more in line with the M4. I guess the realization is that urban combat is going to be more the defense posture of the 21st century than traditional, conventional ground warfare.

The XM8 LAR is developed with some of the same kinetic energy technology the OICW is based on.

[Knave]

I read somewhere that the M4 was to replace at least a good portion of the M16s in the US inventory. The OICW isn't meant as a replacement for either; I remember hearing that only a minority percentage of soldiers will be carrying that weapon in combat, alongside the M4.

Until I find the necessary articles, though, what I'm saying is nearly baseless :P

[JTFazz]

There is some information on the new replacement being developed by for the M16 and M4, the XM8 Light Assault Rifle, on the http://www.globalsecurity.org web site. The XM8 is not the OICW, but based on the kinetic energy technology the OICW and SABR or XM29 is based on.

The contract was recently awarded to Alliant Techsystems in collaboration with H&K.

News Release (http://www.atk.com/releases2/2002Releases/2002-10-31-XM8.htm)

[EliteWolf]

no doubt my friend, urban terrain is the battlefield of the future. As we reach deeper and deeper into the 21st century we find our world becoming ever more populated, cities are growing at an uncontrolable rate, with each passing day the likelyhood that future conflicts will be strickly urban warefare is doubling. As for the M4A1, its gunna be around much longer than the M16. Its compact size, high powered 223 cartridge, and original m16 carbine design make it the perfect urban warefare weapon, wth the additional accessories mounted on the RIS units, it makes a superior weapon for room clearing, the collapseable stock and shorter barrel make it very manuverable round corners, through doorways, in and out of vehicles and so forth, its a versitle weapon that has yet to be improved apon.

[Ratamacue]

I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future all US weapons currently firing 5.56x45mm NATO switch over to that 6.8x43mm ammunition that NSWC is making.

I really would like to see the G11 design revived again though. Maybe in a heavier caliber, that weapon would be amazingly effective, especially in an Urban environment.

[Bing]

alas, the only duty the g11 is serving is museum duty :(

[FallenAngel]

my question is why is the government investing so much into the program. The latest version of OICW simply uses a modified G36K as the "kenetic energy" weapon....

...so why doesn't the government just buy G36Ks and modify from there? Or is this a pride thing so we can say we built nearly the same thing on our own? :D

[Ratamacue]

Actually, the government isn't building it nor is an American company. It's a joint venture between Alliant Techsystems, with H&K doing production, etc.

The weapon isn't simply a G36K. The whole thing is more of a modified computer, and designing a distance-programmable-detonation 20mm round is not easy.

[FallenAngel]

oh, I agree the OICW is must more than a gun...

however, the XM8 seems to be just the assault rifle part of that system. Without the grenade launcher there seems little need for computer systems.

Also, if this HK-combo is the way the US military is going to go with the XM8 and OICW then perhaps soon the M-16 family will give way to the G36 family (which I hear is far more reliable). It would be a great thing- I think anyways- if US troops started getting G36Es as standard issue in the near future. (Lepard2A6s, Gepards, etc wouldnt hurt either ;) )

[Knave]

I'm a little leery of the OICW. I mean, with all that computerization - the Land Warrior program runs on a modified Windows OS. "Blue Screen of Death" could have a whole new meaning ;)

[JTFazz]

Has anyone got a pic of the XM8? Concept art? Scribbles on a napkin?

[Ratamacue]

Fallen, the Leopard2A6 isn't really superior to the M1A2. They use the same cannon, but the Leopard lacks the depleted uranium armor of the M1.

[GearGod]

Read up gentlemen:

http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/21stcenturyrifle.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2116/oicw.htm

[Vance]

Sorry! This site is temporarily unavailble!

[Ratamacue]

I <3 Geocities.

[Bing]

can anyone explain what a kinetic round is? i'm assuming it works differently from just your regular primer power and bullet?

[GearGod]

Vance: Try again later, it works

[GearGod]

Ratamacue: Dont blame geocities, blame the webmasters who didnt put out the money for more bandwidth or something to that effect

http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/learn/CompChart_PlusPro.html

As you can see, the webmaster probably selected the 5GB package instead of the 10GB.. And even if the 10GB package isnt enough, then geocities is prob the wrong host/server whatever

[EliteWolf]

yes fallen angel the g36k is a great weapon, but the fact is, we dont want to be dependant on germany for our military weapons, not only would that be costly, but it would be harder for us to standardize a foreign weapon than one made here in the good ol USA.

[FallenAngel]

thats true wolf, but why can't we build them under liscense here in this country? We do that with Berretas and AT-4s. What about the OICW? HK played a major role in developing that system but I am pretty sure we weren't going to have them built in Germany. whatever company was going to built the OICW must have most of the equipment needed already due to the similarity of the assault rifle part and the G36.