Franco-German spat threatens to ground Airbus

[BlackRain]

Franco-German spat threatens to ground Airbus

(Filed: 16/05/2005)


A French drive to grab dominant control over the EADS aerospace giant has infuriated Berlin and could paralyse Europe's most successful cross-border commercial venture.

The German government vowed over the weekend that it will fight any attempt to erode the country's equal stake in the delicately balanced Franco-German project, which builds Airbus jets, Ariane satellites, the Eurofighter, and Eurocopter.

DaimlerChrysler, which owns 30pc, last week blocked the appointment of the new management team - France's Noel Forgeard and Germany's Thomas Enders - leaving EADS in limbo at a time when it is struggling to cope with a strong euro and shrinking defence budgets in Europe.

The Germans fear that Mr Forgeard, the outgoing Airbus chief, aims to retain day-to-day control over the passenger jet division when he takes joint-charge of EADS.

Known for his "Napoleonic" ambitions, he has been criticised for a bare-knuckle campaign to discredit his German counterpart, who is responsible for the group's less successful defence sector.

Jurgen Schrempp, Daimler-Chrysler's head, said his camp would not tolerate a "one-sided power grab by the French", according to sources cited by Welt am Sonntag newspaper.

The dispute goes beyond personalities, reflecting a deep rift over strategy. France is pushing for a merger between EADS and the French defence group Thales, which would create a global defence giant and would also give Paris effective control.

Deeply suspicious, Berlin has sought to preserve the "balanced relationship within the EADS family". "We are working very hard to make our political contribution to this," said Ditmar Staffelt, Germany's aerospace minister.

Mr Forgeard has turned Airbus into the world's biggest producer of large passenger jets, pulling far ahead of Boeing last year with 57pc of the world market. "Airbus made up 95pc of EADS's total profits in the first quarter of 2005. That's no mean feat, so we must redefine the project with an appropriate team," he said over the weekend.

"There is no Franco-German tension, despite what everybody keeps saying. What we have is a problem between shareholders." The group employs 11,000 people in Britain, mostly producing wings for Airbus.

The dispute has blocked the leadership succession at Airbus just as Boeing shows signs of roaring back, chiefly because of the lower dollar. The US company has won up to $13billion in contracts for its new 787 Dreamliner from Air India and Air Canada after battling with Airbus.

While Airbus is counting on the super jumbo A380 to boost profits, the project is already delayed. The first planned delivery of jets to Singapore Airlines has been put back from early to late 2006.

EADS has warned that the break-even point for the A380 will rise to 250-300 orders if the euro stays strong for long. It has 154 firm orders so far.

A client note by CA Cheuvreux, the equity arm of Crédit Agricole, said the quarrel was starting to inflict real damage.

http://www.money.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2005/05/16/cnairbus16.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2005/05/16/ixfrontcity.html

[roland]

Ground Airbus ? :lol:
Man, try to make the difference between journalism and intertainment :roll:
All this is hard negociation between shareholders, hopefully the French and German states aren't goingg to mess with it.
All the problem come from the fact that Airbus do 95% of EADS operating result witch is way too much. The military part must do better, changes are needed and there is some discussions about that, this is normal.

I guess BlackRain you feel better now, don't be so worry for France, that's kind but a little embarassing. May be if you didn't always choose the news the most alarming you'll feel more relaxed and less axious about France ? just an idea :petting:

[Sharp]

you have few weeks of retard :)

[roland]

you have few weeks of retard :)

You mean a few weeks late (retard veut dire débile :lol: )
No I don't think so: read the Noel Forgeard intervew in the Figaro (in French)
http://www.lefigaro.fr/eco-entreprises/20050513.FIG0287.html

[Sharp]

you have few weeks of retard :)

You mean a few weeks late (retard veut dire débile :lol: )

http://forum-images.hardware.fr/icones/smilies/whistle.gif

A good thing should be that they alternate , one year a german and the next a french... or a french for eads and a german for airbus, and vice-versa ..

ps: i've see that an american company had parts in daimclercrysler, it is right?

[roland]

A good thing should be that they alternate , one year a german and the next a french... or a french for eads and a german for airbus, and vice-versa ..


I don't agree. At the beginning, despite Aerospatiale was bigger than MBB + DASA, the Aerospatiale's shareholders had as many share as the Germans for political reason. Now the merger is strong enough, time to focuse more on obvious economical reason and forget nationalist one.



ps: i've see that an american company had parts in daimclercrysler, it is right?

That is Daimler that own American car maker Chrysler (sp?), the German side of EADS and Mercedes. You see that is not small fish and lets hope they are not going to try to play it the arrogant way while there result are not so impressive so far.
Lets remember, as one put it here, that the French and Germans should kick ass together instead of each other these days.

[thibaud]

Sharp wrote

ps: i've see that an american company had parts in daimclercrysler, it is right?

i think so


The dispute goes beyond personalities, reflecting a deep rift over strategy. France is pushing for a merger between EADS and the French defence group Thales, which would create a global defence giant and would also give Paris effective control.

"There is no Franco-German tension, despite what everybody keeps saying. What we have is a problem between shareholders." The group employs 11,000 people in Britain, mostly producing wings for Airbus.

yes but BAE own 20% of airbus and it is said that they are interested in getting out.

Spain is interested in getting a bigger part in EADS,5%now.

in France Lagardere said a long time ago that they wanted to get out,the state doesn't want that.
but maybe it'going to happen.Dassaul aviation lll take the part of Lagardere.

good news for the miitary part?

the only Question is the impact of this news on the price on the market.
time to buy or to sell.

Where are the germans,Spanish and Brits to talk about that with us.

[Dexx]

Lets remember, as one put it here, that the French and Germans should kick ass together instead of each other these days.

Of corse they should. But Germany is not going to tolerate that it is being done at the expenses of Germans economic interests. France has always played a game of creating NATIONAL champions. When Sanofi took over Aventis Sarkozy wanted to create a French heavyweight by pushing the German Hoechst that made up half of Aventis to the endge. Germany said yes, because it was in the intrests of Europe. A couple of monthe after this deal the same Sarkozy intervened when Siemens wanted to take over parts of Alstom, because Alstom was in deep troubles. Sarkozy gave them some billion Euros to get away from Siemens. Now it is the same with EADS. The French government is trying hard to get control of the company at the expense of Germany. Do you think that the German government doesn't care about French aggressive policy of creating French controled companies? Germany is a close friend of France, but if it is obvious that someone is playing tricks on Germany then the German government (and DaimlerCrysler) stops it.

[roland]

Of corse they should. But Germany is not going to tolerate that it is being done at the expenses of Germans economic interests. France has always played a game of creating NATIONAL champions. When Sanofi took over Aventis Sarkozy wanted to create a French heavyweight by pushing the German Hoechst that made up half of Aventis to the endge. Germany said yes, because it was in the intrests of Europe. A couple of monthe after this deal the same Sarkozy intervened when Siemens wanted to take over parts of Alstom, because Alstom was in deep troubles. Sarkozy gave them some billion Euros to get away from Siemens. Now it is the same with EADS. The French government is trying hard to get control of the company at the expense of Germany. Do you think that the German government doesn't care about French aggressive policy of creating French controled companies? Germany is a close friend of France, but if it is obvious that someone is playing tricks on Germany then the German government (and DaimlerCrysler) stops it.

I don't know the Sanofi case but Alstom case is special and was very badly reported on Anglo (and German ?) media. The truth is that most of the Alstom trouble comes from the fact that they had been f**** when they bought ABB's turbine business: they had defect and it costed Alstom 4,5 Billion euros and its health to fix it.
When Siemens tried to take advantage of that situation, one should remember how tactless it was considering how Alstom was F**** when Germany, for political reason decided to go to Siemens's high speed train system instead of choosing the superior, cheaper and well proven Alstom's TGV system. It's even worse when after we saw the Siemens's high speed train system on our legs and compete to death on the Korean market, so much that it's hightly doubtfull Alstom could make any money on this deal.
That's old story but I think that if the French forget easyly when they screw somebody, they have an elephant memory when they got screwed p-)
All what I want to say is that, like the guys working in EADS themselves, we should focus only on industrial obvious reasons instead of nationalist ones.

[Dexx]

Lol, are you trying to say that Germany was obliged to buy French trains and only because she didn't Sarkozy intervened in the Siemens-Alstom deal? :lol:

Again: Aventis was a German-French drug company and Sarkozy tried to include Sanofis to gain a French control over the company. Do you know why France is trying to incorporate Thales? Dude, guess why? Same pattern...

You can turn it upside down as much as you want. French aggressive economic policy to get control of German-French run companies is dividing the French-German "marriage".

[roland]

Lol, are you trying to say that Germany was obliged to buy French trains and only because she didn't Sarkozy intervened in the Siemens-Alstom deal? :lol:


yes :) .. and also to show that politic interference go both way: the Siemens high speed train was a political train, it has no economic sens considering the Alstom's TGV advance.



You can turn it upside down as much as you want. French aggressive economic policy to get control of German-French run companies is dividing the French-German "marriage".

lets not over do it, the Germans aren't poor defenseless victims are they ? anyway, what we say here: when we go to sign a contract with the Germans we come with 3 technicians, 1 lawer, they come with 3 lawers, one technician :lol: small wonder we always got screwed :|

[thibaud]

While Sarko show to french he was against siemens to take control on alstom.Areva(own by the state) was dealing with siemens in defavor of alstom. :hug:

[thibaud]

26/04/2005

Paris et Berlin vantent l'Europe de l'innovation
LExpansion.com

La France et l'Allemagne ont adopté quatre grands projets de coopération économique, dans la santé et les technologies de l'information. L'Europe veut donner à son industrie de pointe les moyens de rivaliser avec les Américains, les Japonais et bientôt les Chinois.


« Il n’y a pas de politique de croissance sans une grande ambition industrielle ». A moins de cinq semaines du référendum français sur la Constitution, Jacques Chirac a tenté mardi de vanter concrètement les mérites de l’Europe, face aux défis technologiques posés par les géants américains, japonais et bientôt chinois. Lors d’un discours ****oncé mardi à la Sorbonne, le Président de la République a ainsi détaillé les quatre projets d’innovation industrielle adoptés plus tôt dans la journée par la France et l'Allemagne, lors de leur cinquième conseil des ministres commun. Ces projets découlent directement des propositions du groupe de coopération économique franco-allemand, créé à l'automne 2004, et placé sous la direction de Jean-Louis Beffa et Gerhard Cromme, présidents de Saint-Gobain et de Thyssen Krupp.

Deux de ces projets d’innovation industrielle concernent directement les technologies de l'information. Avec « Quaero », Paris et Berlin uniront leurs forces, qu’il s’agisse d’organismes de recherche publique ou d’entreprises privées, pour développer un grand moteur de recherche européen spécialisé dans l’image et la vidéo. Façon d’éviter l’hégémonie de Google et des autres outils américains pour indexer, retranscrire et retrouver des données multimédias. Y participeront notamment Thomson, Exelead, l’INA, France Télécom et Deutsche Telekom. Les deux opérateurs historiques se retrouveront aussi sur un projet d’interopérabilité des réseaux 3G. Le but étant d’atteindre une « connexion optimale permanente ».

Les deux autres projets concernent la recherche biomédicale. Siemens et Alstom, dont les relations ont pu être difficiles par le passé, collaboreront notamment avec le Commissariat à l’énergie atomique et l’université de Fribourg sur des procédés d’imagerie moléculaire à très hauts champs. Afin de concevoir des systèmes d’IRM plus précis, ciblant les pathologies du système nerveux, du système cardiovasculaire ou des cancers. De même, Thalès, Leica et l’institut Curie se retrouveront autour d’un projet de biophotonique. Cette technique permet d’analyser et de traiter des molécules, en utilisant les réactions du vivant aux rayons lumineux, comme les lasers. Le financement de ces premiers projets devrait intervenir à l’automne prochain.



http://www.lexpansion.com/art/32.0.130594.0.html

translated with google


26/04/2005 Paris and Berlin praise Europe of the LExpansion.com innovation France and Germany adopted four great projects of economic co-operation, in the health and technologies information. Europe wants to give to its advanced technology industry the means of competing with the Americans, the Japanese and soon the Chinese.

"There is no policy of growth without a great industrial ambition". With less than five weeks of the French referendum on the Constitution, Jacques Chirac tried Tuesday to concretely praise the merits of Europe, vis-a-vis the technological challenges posed by the American, Japanese giants and soon Chinese. At the time of a marked speech Tuesday in the Sorbonne, the President of the Republic thus detailed the four projects of industrial innovation adopted earlier in the day by France and Germany, at the time of their fifth common Council of Ministers. These projects rise directly from the proposals of the group of economic co-operation Franco-German, created with the autumn 2004, and placed under the direction of Jean-Louis Beffa and Gerhard Cromme, presidents de Saint-Gobain and of Thyssen Krupp.

Two of these projects of industrial innovation relate to information technologies directly. With "Quaero", Paris and Berlin will link their forces, which they are organizations of public research or private companies, to develop a large European search engine specialized in the video image and it. Way of avoiding the hegemony of Google and other American tools to index, retranscribe and find data multimedia. Y will take part in particular Thomson, Exelead, the INA, France Telecom and Deutsche Telekom. The two historical operators will also find themselves on a project of interworking of the networks 3G. The goal being to reach a "permanent optimal connection".

The two other projects relate to biomedical research. Siemens and Alstom, whose relations could be difficult in the past, will collaborate in particular with the Commissariat à l' Énergie Atomique and the university of Freiburg on processes of molecular imagery in very high fields. In order to conceive systems of more precise IRM, targeting pathologies of the nervous system, the cardiovascular system or cancers. In the same way, Thalès, Leica and the Curie institute will be found around a project of biophotonic. This technique makes it possible to analyze and treat molecules, by using the reactions of living with the luminous rays, like the lasers. The financing of these first projects should intervene with the nearest autumn.

So BLack rain you shouldn't be worried about the Franco-German partnership.

.

[xionman]

screwbus :backhand:

[BlackRain]

Daimler chief vows to prevent Frenchman from heading EADS

AFP[ SUNDAY, MAY 15, 2005 09:57:37 PM]

BERLIN: The head of DaimlerChrysler vowed to block Frenchman Noel Forgeard from taking the co-helm at European aerospace giant EADS. “We will stop the French unilaterally taking power,” Jurgen Schrempp, the head of the German car firm, a major EADS shareholder, said.

His comments are the latest twist in a tug-of-war for control of the defence and space company and come after Mr Forgeard told French daily Le Figaro that strains at EADS concerned only the shareholders and don’t reflect any strains between France and Germany. German shareholders hold 30% of the group.

The leadership crisis broke out at EADS this week after the aerospace giant’s board of directors failed at the company’s annual general meeting in Amsterdam on Wednesday to officially name Forgeard and Thomas Enders as its new co-CEOs.

The decision has now been postponed until June 1.

Two people are in line to take over from Forgeard at Airbus according to the Welt am Sonntag: Germany’s Gustav Humbert, currently number two at Airbus, and Frenchman Fabrice Bregier, president of Eurocopter.

[thibaud]

Jurgen Schrempp, the head of the German car firm

maybe this guy and Mr Forgeard(friend of Chirac) didn't want the same strategic option to EADS and AIRBUS.

looking to asia mainly China or Usa with the Usairforce tanker aircraft contract.

[Weasel]

Don´t worry about Schremmp. He won´t be on his chair for too long. ;)

[kenshiroIT]

I didnt know France are part of the Eurofighter project.

[roland]

I didnt know France are part of the Eurofighter project.

well French shareholder own 30% of EADS that own a part of Eurofighter (25% ?)
As well, EADS ownn around 45% of Dassault so a big part of the Rafale.
When the Eurofighter is out of a competition, EADS should (and may be will) put all its weight behind the Rafale.