Tier two and tier three assets?

[Anonymous]

I know CAG and DevGru are tier one assets but what are tier two assets? My guess would be Army SF, Navy SEALs, Marine FR(DAP), AF CCT/PJ/ST. Is that about right?

If there is tier one and tier two are there tier three and four? What would those be?

Thanks to anyone who can help. I'd appreciate learning a bit more about this provided it doesn't violate OPSEC.

[Anonymous]

There are these places I know of called bookstores. In these places they sell these things called books. Get the idea? Or for God sakes try the web, I mean you were on it when you posted that question. Just got a computer yesterday and haven't learned how to search for anything specific yet? Jesus H. Christ on a popsickle stick.

P.S. - It's DEVGRU, not DevGru.

[Anonymous]

:roll: I refuse to let this site become one of those places where people get their "I need to feel high and mighty today" jollies. Last time I checked, this site was also on 'the web'. Although I've read a lot about various military issues, I don't know the answer to this question either and wouldn't mind someone answering it if they're able.

[Anonymous]

Not positive but I think:

Tier One: Delta (CAG), DEVGRU
Tier Two: Army SF, SEALs
Tier Three: Army Rangers

I don't believe Air Force Special Operations units (CCT, PJ's) are considered on any tier. I think they are stricly support assests, used to support other SOF units. I'm pretty sure the only time you'll see AFSOF being sent anywhere by themselves is PJ's doing a rescue mission, or CCT's going in to set up an airfield so that other SOF or whomever can then come in. Otherwise I believe they are always attached to other units.

I have no idea where Marine Battalion Recon or Force Recon fits into any of this, or if it does at all. I hear, as most others have, that the Marines will be letting a unit join SOCOM. I expect this would be Force Recon, and I would guess they would be considered Tier Two.

[Anonymous]

Dave: Thank you for trying to help. That is an interesting possiblity.

Hood: What do you think? Does that sound about right.

[Anonymous]

Tier one is CAG, 160 Soar and DEVGRP, Tier two are certain SF units not all of them and Rangers, Tier three is "White SF." USAF SOF support these guys on certain missions and are not tier rated. There is no Tier four. Marines would like to join SOCOM but they really have nothing to bring to the party since SOCOM has the Rangers and they are the best Infantry unit in the worldand the only reason USMC wants to join is $$$$. Each SF GRP has a Tier two unit but you will not find anything about them unless you know how to "read into" things.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Shooter. What about the SEALs? I thought SF was just SF. I assume the "DA" ODA's are the teir two teams? How would one, upon completion of the SF pipeline, ensure they end up on a "DA" team and not get stuck doing FID or some other equally boring stuff? I know you'll probebly say FID is an important mission, but to me it seems more politicaly important than militarily important. Let's face it, what sounds like more fun, teir two "black" SF, or teir three "white" SF? Thank you for any and all feedback.

[Anonymous]

This may take sometime but here it is. Once youve done The QC you go to your GRP and assigned to BN/CO/TM. You have know choice in the matter it all depends on where there is an opening for your MOS. Not to long ago there were 6 ODAs in a line Co. Each ODA has a speciality, HALO, SCUBA/WIC, SOT, Mountain, and two "Ruck Teams." Every ODA will do FID because thats what SF guys do. FID is similar to UW except youre not behind enemy lines raising and traing a "G" army. Youre just training an existing army how the should fight. Its not as "sexy" as doing DA but is just as important. After you spend some time in the white SF, in the old days, you could ask to go to this unit or you could be selected to go by word of mouth. You then do some more advanced training and upon graduation you would be sent for a tour with that unit. This tier 2 SF unit is not ODA size. As far as the SEALS go only DEVGRP is tier 1 the rest are tier 3 just like SF. After your tour you will either go back to white Sf or become an instructure at the school that produces these tier 2 Sf shooters. Even in this unit, where training is more present and intense, there is "boring" things to do like to foregin nation tier 1 units how to conduct "DA" missions. After all SF is 90% teaching. Hope this helps a little.

[Anonymous]

ShooterB,

Thanks for the information and the two cents.

If Green Berets and SEALs are Tier 3 "white ops" then what is in Tier two with the Rangers?

My guess would be Tactical Psy Ops or Long Range Surveillance Units maybe?

They say that the Corps is sending 75 Marines for starters to be attached to SOCOM in 2004. Do you think these are DA Force guys who go on pumps or other MEU types? Do you think this is redundant?

[Anonymous]

The "DA" SF units I last wrote about are tier 2 with the Rangers. PSYOPS/CA are not tier forces. They may support these forces from time to time but do not work with them on a normal basis. I do not bother asking why things are done in the military community any more. I would think the corps would send MEUSOC over if they sent anyone. Sometimes being redundent is good. If 1 is good then 2 is better. If you do not have a certain capability then you will never use it, if you do have a certain capability then you may never use it but you still have that option. LRSU are not tier forces either, just speciality infantry intell gathering units. Not to be a **** but are you in or have you ever been in the Armed Forces? Or just someone who simply has an interest in the military?

[Anonymous]

ShooterB,

Thank you for clarification.

Since Green Berets have tier 2 as well as tier 3 "white ops" assets do the SEALs have have tier 2 assets as well? It would seem like they might.

Maybe the servicemen the Marine Corps intends to attach to SOCOM might be from the Direct Action elements of their Force companies in their MEU(SOC)s.

It is interesting to see that Air Force SOF, LRSU, CA/PsyOps, etc. are not tier-rated.

I was never in the armed services. Health problems saw to that. My primary interest is special ops but to be honest I would have been more than happy to just have been able to serve in many other capacities from a straight-legged 11B to being a multimedia illustrator or a small arms repairer.

Serving is the important thing not trying to get into a "sexy", glamorous occupation for oneself. The whole idea of serving is to give back and there are more than one way to do that especially in the armed services.

I take it you are or were in the armed forces.

[Anonymous]

CARTER,

Im not too sure if the SEALs play like the Army. Remember they are the only real Spec Ops in the navy so they get the whole pie for operations as far as the Navy cares. Only DEVGRP is the national level asset for Maritime CT and will handel the mission before any other SEAL Tm will. I really dont know anything much about the marines. I worked with a MEUSOC once in Latin America and i was really not impressed. The boys were tuff and all but the leadership was lacking. My opinion on that. To answer your question. YES.

[Anonymous]

ShooterB,

You've certainly got around more than I have. While I am disappointed that I did not get to serve I did find other ways to give back outside of the service mostly through community service work. So I can't say I did not find a way to partially make up for it.

Thanks for the information and two cents. Have a good one.

cheers,
Carter.

[Anonymous]

EVERY MAN HAS HIS OWN CALLING. ITS NOTHING TO BE ASHAIMED OF, NOT THAT YOU ARE. I KNOW LOTS OF GOOD MEN THAT HAVE NEVER SERVED. DO THE BEST YOU CAN AT WHATEVER YOU DO IS THE BEST THING A MAN CAN DO FOR HIS COUNTRY. ITS JUST NOW THE MILITARY IS GETTING A LOT OF PUBLICITY.

[Anonymous]

There seems to be some faulty info going around here

Tier one: CAG, Development Group

As far as SEALs go... DEVGRU are SEALs... they endure no special second BUD/S or anything else... they are just SEALs that specialize in HR/CT/WMD. The other Teams are Tier Two assets. They Specialize in DA missions and Special Reconaissance. They also do the UW and FID stuff as well. However, they all (SEAL Teams) consider the CQB mission as something they are very good at.

Pararescue, CCT: Can be combined to form STT teams. CCT now has it's own school, so they no longer endure the punishment of the superman school in Texas. They are support elements... but to think of them as "support" is an understatement. They deploy and train with SEALs, SF, and CAG as well as unit abroad. I believe that their selection process (PJ's) is right up there (except for it being shorter, 10 weeks) with BUD/S (26 weeks). And, I consider BUD/S to be one of the (if not the) hardest selection processes in the world. Anyways... PJ's... they're probably some of the best trained soldiers we have.

As far as Rangers are concerned... they are very good at what they do... light infantry. They are generally younger, and less experienced. Their selection process is not at the same level (in difficulty) as most of the others. They also work with the units in JSOC to perform the duties that generally require 100 men or more.

Force Recon belongs to the Marine Corps. They do the same thing as the SEALs except for they specialize in Deep Reconaissance.

All of these units are very good, and highly trained. The selection process is designed to weed out those that are there for the wrong reasons and/or do not have the mental toughness to continue onward when the physical ability to do so has depleted itself completely.

take care

[Detn8]

On a smaller note, the Marine Corps isn't in it for the "$$$$$$" , as it was put. The reason is because of the lack of funding we (Force, Bn, RAID, etc...)recieve. I will say one thing is impressive, the ammunition allocations that the SEAL community (who average more rounds issued individually than ANY other...) is far greater than that of the Marines. One fully T/O Team will see approximatly the same amount as one Line Co. at ful T/O during 1 fiscal year. It's easy for those to run their mouths when looking from the outside, but what it comes down to is the fact that without money nothing really happens. Should the Marine Corps get into the SPECOPS community 'Officially'...Sure. But we've gone on for the longest time being the service with the least amount of $$$$, we still do, and as much as it sucks to say it, we will continue to do it this way because the mission still gets accomplished.

[Anonymous]

Although I have no knowledge about the units and the tier to which they fall; I can say definatively that PSYOP units do regularily work with the Rangers and much of the SF. The Rangers have a full time Tac PSYOP Detatchment assigned, the soldiers participate in Rangers ex's and also are pushed to attend Ranger school, as has even been reported the Det jumped soldiers into Quandahar during the airfield siezure (call it what you will). Many of the PSYOP/CA units wartrace to SF units and are often supporting them, especially in the UW roles. In the past years US involvment in UW has been limited, as that is changing we are seeing these units better utilized. Although they are limited in the capacity of their support due to the nature of much of the SF role (SR, DA limits but not elimenates the role PSYOP and CA play) , they are appearing more and more together in support of SASO, UW and FID.

[TE]

Sorry to bring this post out of the dark, but I did a search for "pararescue" and it came up.

PJs and CCT are combined into Special Tactics squadrons (STS) within AFSOC. ALL CCT are now in AFSOC and soon, all PJs will be also (AFSOC will now be the lead command for Air Force CSAR). Prior to that, PJs were basically split between Rescue squadrons (ACC and PACAF), and AFSOC assigned to STS.

We (I'm a PJ) are not just support for SOF...the vast majority of combat recoveries in both Afghanistan and Iraq were accomplished by PJs assigned to Rescue squadrons. Much of the CFF/CAS was performed by CCT. PJs and CCT took part in the rescue of Pvt. Lynch...a PJ was the first American to work on here since she was captured...

We do have a Tier 1 unit, and the other STSs which are assigned to SOGs (Special Operations Groups) are Tier 2 assets.

[Apogee]

just to back up TE, CSAR (combat search and rescue) is one of SOCOM's primary missions, and although Green Berets and the SEALs do some of this, the PJs are the primary force on that. PJs def. participate in a number of SOCOM schools and are an amazing outfit. I'm drunk, so its time to pass out.

[budanski]

Avoid chunking on the keyboard. Hard to get the keyboard from unsticking. Better off buying a new one. ;)