View Full Version : TOW? vs. T72 video (f-ing crazy!)
DOGBERT
12-17-2003, 09:19 PM
Forgive me if this video has already been shown here, but it is one of the best I have ever seen. It is a TOW missile (hand-held, not from an armored vehicle). Just have a look at it and you will see what I mean:
http://svd.s20.xrea.com/pic/new_atm.jpg
http://home.hiwaay.net/%7Esickler/opforstuff/vids/JavelinLiveFireVsT72.mpg
All the best,
Marty
Ratamacue
12-17-2003, 09:22 PM
That's not a TOW, that's a Javelin. I'm not sure of the guidance system (TV? infrared? someone please advise), but it's definitely not a TOW.
Definitely a cool video though. Of course, many people claim that the tank was loaded up with high explosives beforehand...judge for yourself.
16 OBr SpN
12-17-2003, 09:46 PM
Video is total fake! Tank was literally packed with explosives. Or it was made from wood. :lol:
Even the most powerful AT guns make a nice hole in the tank. In some instances the turret blows up. Tank may crack. But explosion on that video, and what's left - a total bull****... unless they dropped an airbomb on it! :roll:
Regards,
16 OBr SpN
Seoulstriker
12-17-2003, 10:04 PM
^^^ are you sure? i've seen some incredible explosions on the history channel comparable to that.
Russian Texan
12-17-2003, 10:14 PM
^^^ are you sure? i've seen some incredible explosions on the history channel comparable to that.
rofl rofl rofl rofl
Seoulstriker
12-17-2003, 10:17 PM
^^^ i was basing that on the above photo.
after seeing the movie, i agree that there must have been explosives inside the tank. :oops:
Ratamacue
12-17-2003, 10:23 PM
Could have been magic...
Russian Texan
12-17-2003, 10:25 PM
No way it is real, unless the tank still had live rounds inside and they all detonated at once.
There isn't much left of the tank after explosion. Are you saying that "Javelin" is more powerfull than Abrams main gun?
HumanShield
12-17-2003, 10:26 PM
what tank?
the rounds in the tank could of cooked off all at once you know...
EDIT:
No way it is real, unless the tank still had live rounds inside and they all detonated at once.
There isn't much left of the tank after explosion. Are you saying that "Javelin" is more powerfull than Abrams main gun?
like he kinda said
FallenAngel
12-18-2003, 02:14 AM
No way it is real, unless the tank still had live rounds inside and they all detonated at once.
There isn't much left of the tank after explosion. Are you saying that "Javelin" is more powerfull than Abrams main gun?
Well, a 120mm SABOT round isn't necessarily designed to 'explode'. It's kenetic energy is supposed to punch though the armor and spray the inside with molten metal or something along those lines. Also, note that being a gun (vs. a howitzer or mortor), the Abrams' projectile comes in on a relatively flat trejectory, hitting the front/side of the tank where the armor is much thinker than directly on top (where the Javelin penetrates.) So, I suppose what your definition of "more powerful" is and what kind of variables go into that. ;)
MarineSniper8541
12-18-2003, 02:17 AM
Video is total fake! Tank was literally packed with explosives. Or it was made from wood. :lol:
Even the most powerful AT guns make a nice hole in the tank. In some instances the turret blows up. Tank may crack. But explosion on that video, and what's left - a total bull****... unless they dropped an airbomb on it! :roll:
Regards,
16 OBr SpN
WRONG!!!
The Javelin creates the highest overpressure in an enclosed armored vehicle of any anti-armor specific munition in the world. A direct hit with this munition will do more damage to a tank than a 250 pound bomb. The overpressure it creates is over 500,000 tons per square inch. It instantly turns everything inside the tank into a plasmatic matter which then immolates instantaneously...the onboard munitions of the tank included. It litterally causes the shell of the tank to dissentigrate. That was no fake demonstration.
Keep your eye on the 12 o'clock portion of the screen during the first explosion sequence. That piece that you see flying up in the air is the actual turrent of the T-72.
FallenAngel
12-18-2003, 03:16 AM
Keep your eye on the 12 o'clock portion of the screen during the first explosion sequence. That piece that you see flying up in the air is the actual turrent of the T-72.
Yeah, I caught that. Pretty f*cking sweet if you ask me, considering the thing pry weighs a few tons :D
ShotOver
12-18-2003, 03:54 AM
I saw some video from the current war in Iraq, of some US Marines comming across a slightly dammaged, yet abandoned T-55.
They Hit it with a Javelin, and the explosion was just like that. Pretty much nothing left but the tracks..
It's a pretty damn big missile:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/images/jav14.jpg
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/images/Javelin_12.jpg
Herrmannek
12-18-2003, 04:37 AM
Here is "oryginal" topic about that super-duper-explosion with pros and cons that tank was speccially loaded with HE....
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1789&highlight=javelin+lost
Kingpin
12-18-2003, 05:09 AM
Yeah, yeah there was a lot of discussions about it.
To add some freshness here let's ask each other: what kind of shells should be loaded into tank to cause such massive explosion?
Definitely it was not HEAT and SABOT shells (i mean their soviet equivalents). HE shells can cause this explosion (US tanks don't have such in load). But any way they can't cook off in one moment. Some should fly away with some smoky tracing (like you may notice on photos from Iraq). But we only see one explosion.
So i suppose it was rigged with amount of explosives such as C-4 approximately equal to standard battle load of T-72. Warhead hit and caused detonation. It is much more difficult to cause detonation of real Soviet shell.
Just had a look at the vid up close frame by frame and there is a blue light next to the suspension as the missile hits... looks to me like the explosives went of a little prematurely.
[/img]
Kingpin
12-18-2003, 06:02 AM
Just had a look at the vid up close frame by frame and there is a blue light next to the suspension as the missile hits... looks to me like the explosives went of a little prematurely.
No. This may be camera feature. Event itself was too short to record it properly. Don't forget: only 24/30 frames per second.
Armour recon
12-18-2003, 11:03 AM
Not real. T-72 doesn't blow up like that.
JMooch
12-18-2003, 12:31 PM
"Tank was literally packed with explosives."
Yeah, they are called main gun rounds.
"Not real. T-72 doesn't blow up like that"
It doesn't eh? Well the T55's I saw get smoked in Iraq by a Javelin looked like that. Don't make statements like these unless you've seen it happen. The Javelin is sick. I saw a T55 pillbox in Nasiriyah that got hit in the engine deck by one. It blew the entire engine through the floorboards and into a three foot hole below the tank.
S/F
Mooch
TriggerPuller
12-18-2003, 12:46 PM
Not real. T-72 doesn't blow up like that.Tell us what happened to the tanks that YOU blew up!
What's up Mooch I see that school is in session!
TP
JMooch
12-18-2003, 01:28 PM
"What's up Mooch I see that school is in session!"
TP, nothing much going on. I just hate it when people open up their man-pleasers and spout s**t they don't know anything about.
Semper!
Mooch
TriggerPuller
12-18-2003, 01:46 PM
"What's up Mooch I see that school is in session!"
TP, nothing much going on. I just hate it when people open up their man-pleasers and spout s**t they don't know anything about.
Semper!
Mooch I hear ya bro,got a few of them myself in another forum!
Take care
TP
PsihoKeke
12-18-2003, 01:47 PM
Well I'v seen few T-72 (M-84 to be exact) destroyed ad none looked like this. The remenants like the one of APC. This tank was probably overloaded with fuel and ammo to make this presentation more ''sexy'', probably for senate comite.
2Sheds_Jackson
12-18-2003, 02:07 PM
"What's up Mooch I see that school is in session!"
TP, nothing much going on. I just hate it when people open up their man-pleasers and spout s**t they don't know anything about.
Semper!
Mooch
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Y'know, tanks blow up. They're full of things that blow up. I don't think anybody can honestly say it "wouldn't blow up that way" unless they're a munitions expert. But this is the reason I joned the AirForce :)
Oh @%$& I forgot I work for the Army now...D'OH!
JMooch
12-18-2003, 03:25 PM
"Well I'v seen few T-72 (M-84 to be exact) destroyed ad none looked like this. The remenants like the one of APC. This tank was probably overloaded with fuel and ammo to make this presentation more ''sexy'', probably for senate comite."
As a matter of SOP, test vehicles are usually set up with their "combat load" before testing. The point of the test to see the effects of munitions on a vehicle in COMBAT CONDITIONS, not stateside bull**** dog-and-pony shows.
The combat load is as you probably guessed, the full load of ammo and fuel the vehicle would carry if it was about the ride into battle to fight the forces of evil.
If you don't think fully combat loaded vehicle looks like that when it explodes you are delusional. Imagine the force of an explosion of just the ammo and fuel then tack on the explosive power of the Javelin.
Look up the history of the term "catastrophic explosion" and look for examples.
S/F
Mooch
MarineSniper8541
12-18-2003, 05:23 PM
That blue light you see is not an explosive charge.
It is the missle penetrating the hull of the tank and a ball of plasma shooting out of the bottom. It happens in micro-seconds.
Anyone who has any doubt about the power of a Javelin just needs to go to Camp Lejeune, NC and travel through the base via highway 172(public highway). It goes RIGHT by the OP-5 missle range. For YEARS there were armored vehicle hulls out there that TOW and Dragon gunners would use as targets. Those hulls of M-60s and M48s that were on that range, had been hit by COUNTLESS TOWs and Dragons yet you could always look at them from a far distance and still tell that they were tanks.
Now that they have all been hit by Javelins, the only thing you see out there on that range is big rusty spots on the ground.
What hundreds of TOWs and Dragons could not do in about 15 years, a few Javelins did in one shot each.
If you ever see one of these fired in actual combat, you will become a believer.
2Sheds_Jackson
12-18-2003, 05:28 PM
Ok darn it, I'm sold on the Javelin. I'll take it. How much?
Mr. Nielsen
12-18-2003, 06:17 PM
Now that they have all been hit by Javelins, the only thing you see out there on that range is big rusty spots on the ground.
What hundreds of TOWs and Dragons could not do in about 15 years, a few Javelins did in one shot each.
I suppose these old tanks were not loaded with anything at all. And if so the explosive charge of the Javelin would have to do it by itself. Or what?
budanski
12-18-2003, 06:47 PM
The Norwegians are sold (http://www.norway.org/newsofnorway/news.cfm?id=692)
allrite, i have a question for on of you Marines that i couldnt find the answer for and i figured one of you would know... what do they use to shoot the Javelin out of the tube? before its 'rocket' kicks into action? i saw a video of some Marines shooting a Javelin, it shot out of the tube and it looked like it was only a few inches off the ground before the 'rocket' kicked in, i was just curious as to how this works...
MarineSniper8541
12-18-2003, 07:24 PM
This missle has two stages.
The first stage is the launching stage. It blows the missle out of the tube.
The second stage is the main stage which ignites and carries the missle to the target.
MarineSniper8541
12-18-2003, 07:27 PM
Now that they have all been hit by Javelins, the only thing you see out there on that range is big rusty spots on the ground.
What hundreds of TOWs and Dragons could not do in about 15 years, a few Javelins did in one shot each.
I suppose these old tanks were not loaded with anything at all. And if so the explosive charge of the Javelin would have to do it by itself. Or what?
The old tanks are just rusty hulks. They are empty and have been sitting on just about any military base you can think of for decades. Just about every small arms range that can accomodate a .50 cal or larger has some of them sitting downrange as cannon fodder.
TriggerPuller
12-18-2003, 07:41 PM
MS8541, When I went to ITS back in 86 I was an 0351 Dragon gunner. The warhead was filled with Octol, is the Javelin the same or are they using a different type of warhead now?
TP
gaboki
12-18-2003, 08:24 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/blog/gaboki/werid.JPG
????
Dmitri
12-18-2003, 10:36 PM
Now that they have all been hit by Javelins, the only thing you see out there on that range is big rusty spots on the ground.
lol, don't you think that if Javelins destroyed them, the spots would be burned out, not rusty? I'm just wondering, may be those torn-up pieces were just removed from the range? Never been there, but that's just common sense.
Dave the Dawg
12-18-2003, 10:59 PM
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/jimage1.jpg
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/jimage2.jpg
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/jimage3.jpg
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/jimage4.jpg
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/jimage5.jpg
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/jimage6.jpg
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/jimage7.jpg
http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/jimage8.jpg
"That blue light you see is not an explosive charge.
It is the missle penetrating the hull of the tank and a ball of plasma shooting out of the bottom. It happens in micro-seconds."
That is amazing then. The Americans have developed a weapon that defies the laws of Physics. On the frame I was looking at the Missile had just impacted the top of the turret. The Blue light showing so called penetration was just below the track inside the suspension. The Missile in that frame was whole... ie the explosive charge hadn't expanded an inch sideways but according to you has already penetrated the roof of the vehicle and presumably generated enough internal pressure to start blasting through the hull sides near the suspension. That is truely amazing.
TOTALLY UNBELIEVEABLE ACTUALLY!
I have seen plenty of images where vehicles have run over large mines and have been reduced to rubble like that, but if you are going to fake it at least use the missile itself to set of the charges.
USMarine3521
12-18-2003, 11:43 PM
i think that blue light may have something to do with the camera
Vance
12-18-2003, 11:47 PM
That blue light is a camera effect that the people recording could not help. It's a ray of light or a beam that's there for a fraction of a second...no premature explosion, no ball of plasma...
This missle has two stages.
The first stage is the launching stage. It blows the missle out of the tube.
The second stage is the main stage which ignites and carries the missle to the target.
thanks MarineSniper... p-)
"i think that blue light may have something to do with the camera"
Internal reflections, especially of bright lights causing lens flares and other effects are very common. The image above showing the explosion and the bright light below is a good example. However the laws of physics kinda rule that out with a stationary camera with a light effect appearing before the missile actually generates that bright light that caused it first... unless the camera used could tell the future.
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