New Finnish Defence Force Uniforms

[Sabre]

I was just looking at the 'Nordic Peace 2003' exercise photos and came across these pictures:

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/np03/data/images/149_press.jpg

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/np03/data/images/150_press.jpg

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/np03/data/images/290_press.jpg


Is this CADPAT, or just a similar pattern?

[spectre5]

It looks a bit darker (=better for our woods)

And the cutting seems a bit differend, simular to m/91..

Sure like the looks of our new bdu, ill be going to the army in '05 so I hope it will be avaible then :).

There also seems to be some kind of new lbv in the lower picture?

T.
Antti Korpela

[-Max2-]

Nice camo... :)

[Armour recon]

Looks great!
Also the officer has new type of vest model.

[Sabre]

Now that I look at it again, the cover on the 'riot shield' is definately CADPAT, but the new uniforms look different. There's less black and the colours are more muted.

The cut is, of course, different to the Canadian uniforms. I was more reffering to the pattern of the material. I like the look of these, quite functional and similar to our soldier 95 jackets. All you need is the zip pockes and you're away! ;)

Can't wait to get over and visit Finland. I have been to Sweden a few times and look set to go there a lot in the future. I'm hoping to get out and see Finland and Norway while I'm there, too.

[Smintjes]

Whoa! That has got bo be one of the most interesting camo-patterns I have come across. can't wait until they hit the surplus stores. Although that may be a while ...

[Claymore]

At least 5 years. Probably 10.

[pretorian669]

At last. That older pattern was butt ugly.

[Smintjes]

http://www2.mil.fi/laitokset/talv/individual_en.dsp --> Is this page only intended as a reference for Finnish military personnel, or can civilians order clothes straight from the army? (ok, stupid question, maybe)

[Dalleer]

for Finnish military personnel, or can civilians order clothes straight from the army?

It seems to be just reference to military personnel/ other people interested but there are several shops that sell the various Finnish army clothing etc. things in here,

You could consider these "stores" as surplus dealerships. However I'm not so sure if they're willing to send products abroad...



http://www.milpro.fi/index.cfm?action=sivu&sivu=123

Here's one that at least has it's pages in English, but I can't be sure if they're willing to send things abroad, as I've said...

[Midav]

BDU's look good :D

[DE_Six]

It definitely looks good and effective...
It looks like faded CADPAT. If you browse the DND photo archives, you can spot some of the early issue CADPAT, it fades pretty quick.
IMHO, this is what CADPAT should have looked like from the start. Finland and Canada have very similar vegetation (sub-arctic, laurentian-type evergreens). It is a little bright.
And the cam tarp wrapped on the ballistic shield looks like a CADPAT item to me.

Just my .02$

[Dalleer]

I was just about to say the same about the similarities in Canada's and Finland's vegetation.

Still, I'm a bit puzzled about these "cam tarps" that were wrapped on the ballistic shield and on the other thread's sniper rifles. The "pattern" does look like CADPAT, and maybe our defence forces have bought some CADPAT fabric to these particular instances. Still, maybe's it's just a something close to CADPAT manufactured in Finland, maybe not, however, the idea of our forces having bought CADPAT somehow seems very alien...

But then again, maybe not!

What comes to this new "M/05 uniform system"-concept I find it positive and negative in several areas; now it has been mentioned that M/05 will produce several new equipment under the M/05-name the same way as the M/91 "uniform/equipment system" did back in the 90's.

The defence forces have announced new M/05 (MOLLE-style?) vests, boots, composite-helmets, Boonie-style hats and so on. But, in my opinion you do not really need all this stuff, merely just increase the production of the M/91 items and so on.

Now I don't know everything about every piece of equipment our soldiers carry, but certainly it makes me wonder if we truly need a new composite helmet for our forces since we already have one, granted that it still is in stock but in small numbers.

I'd see that we should just increase the production of our M/91 gear so that even the reserves would be able to get the M/91 camouflage uniforms as their primary wear in the exercises along with the drastic increase on the acquisition/production of the older composite helmet-model.

Now maybe the primary reason for a new composite helmet is the weight, but as I've understood the Finnish model is pretty light compared to many others, now I could be wrong with this.

What comes to the M/91 boots, certainly they can still handle their job without the need for a new M/05 model footwear for the troops, although perhaps this new model might consider the things that the older models lacked...

Now here's some thoughts to the non-Finnish and Finnish members of this board concerning our new equipment.

Btw, as I've understood the pictures of the M/05 camouflage uniform is not final, so there still might be major or minor changes in the final model.

[Marxist203]

Now that I look at it again, the cover on the 'riot shield' is definately CADPAT, but the new uniforms look different. There's less black and the colours are more muted.

The cut is, of course, different to the Canadian uniforms. I was more reffering to the pattern of the material. I like the look of these, quite functional and similar to our soldier 95 jackets. All you need is the zip pockes and you're away! ;)

Can't wait to get over and visit Finland. I have been to Sweden a few times and look set to go there a lot in the future. I'm hoping to get out and see Finland and Norway while I'm there, too.

Its not CADPAT, we have a copyright on the name. Its just some Finnish variant...CADPAT isn't just the pattern. There is this strange liquid coating they put onto the uniform to make the soldier less visible to thermal equipment.

Nice camo though...CADPAT and uh..FIDPAT look way better than MARPAT

[[AFSOC]]

Wow.....

I like how countries have such originality.....

Looks almost identical to CADPAT, MARPAT is better then this one Marxist.

CADPAT/MARPAT are the real deal..

[MarineSniper8541]

ACK!!!

It's FINPAT!! :D

[Marxist203]

[JTF-2][]Wow.....

I like how countries have such originality.....

Looks almost identical to CADPAT, MARPAT is better then this one Marxist.

CADPAT/MARPAT are the real deal..

Just because they didn't invent the pattern doesn't mean they cant use it. Its effective camo...Finland is our newest ally anyway, the more effective they are in combat really helps out NATO in the long run.

[MarineSniper8541]

Nice camo though...CADPAT and uh..FIDPAT look way better than MARPAT

Do you want to wear a pattern that LOOKS good, or one WORKS good?

MARPAT actually WORKS better than CADPAT. CADPAT was designed for the temperate evergreen and desiduous vegetation of the northern regions of North America and Europe. Hence the useage of the brighter shades of green and reddish browns in the pattern. It was not designed to be as functional in all types of environments as was MARPAT. CADPAT stands out like a sore thumb in environments such as scrub brush, savanah and other environments where mid-tone colors are more prominent than brighter greens and reds. When MARPAT was being designed, it blew CADPAT away in tests conducted accross a wide array of different vegetation environments. The MARPAT pattern also wears better and maintains its effectiveness better as a uniform ages and the coloration begins to fade due to laundering and exposure to the elements.

Just thought you might care to know since you think CADPAT "looks" so much better.

So I dont care how pretty CADPAT or this new FINPAT or whatever it is look. I will take function over fashion any day.


There is this strange liquid coating they put onto the uniform to make the soldier less visible to thermal equipment.

The chemical treatment of uniforms to reflect less IR light has been in practice by most NATO countries for almost 20 years. That is why when you read the label of a uniform that has the chemical treatment on it, it says "Do not starch" in the laundering instructions.

That process is not proprietary to the Canadian armed forces, :roll:

[Ratamacue]

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/np03/data/images/150_press.jpg

Looks like he's modeling for a magazine. ;)

[Armour recon]

Can you attach steel plates in to that?

[PsihoKeke]

This pattern reminds me of German uniform.

[[AFSOC]]

This pattern reminds me of German uniform.

Uh............are you blind?

Marinesniper stop ranting bout which one is better cuz there EQUALLY GOOD.

CADPAT does not stick out that easily buddy, there's pictures of Canadain soldiers in Afghanistan during Tora Bora and Op.Anaconda and the camo blends in reaL nice.

Like this...

http://www.army.dnd.ca/lf/equip/hab/images/Photos/9013.jpg

and this...

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/photoarchive/LoRes/%212003/102903/KA2003-B015A.jpg

[LongWayToTheTop]

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/np03/data/images/150_press.jpg

Looks like he's modeling for a magazine. ;)

Yeah but hes one ugly bastard tho.

[BT_Recon]

well its obviously a molle chest platform.... whether or not its a modular plate carrier though is different, it has a zip thats over flapped running down the centre so im guessing it doesnt. :)

i'm a fan of the new digi type cammo coming out.... gucci ****.

hopefully Australia will pick up something like that at some stage, not that our rabit cam needs any real fixing.

[Claymore]

Can you attach steel plates in to that?

No, you can't. Bullet/fragmentproof vest is going to be a diffirent item.



Now I don't know everything about every piece of equipment our soldiers carry, but certainly it makes me wonder if we truly need a new composite helmet for our forces since we already have one, granted that it still is in stock but in small numbers.


I can see that you have not used/tried those helmets. The weight is huge question when you carry a helmet all day long.

[Armour recon]

I know. I hate steel helmets. we had those for 5 months, after that we got composite helmets. Much better.

Glad I was in Recon. didn't use those helmets.

[Dalleer]

I can see that you have not used/tried those helmets. The weight is huge question when you carry a helmet all day long.

Agreed that I haven't used the Finnish model nor any other models of composite helmets for that matter, but it says in this catalogue of a Finnish "surplus shop" that the current model composite helmet used by the army weights "only" 1,3 kg.

Now of course the weight is a big problem, but surely not the helmet used by the Finnish army is the heaviest around?


This pattern reminds me of German uniform.

Well, if you'd ask me about the similar features between the German Flecktarn and this...um.. this Finnish "new pattern" I'd say there's very little, so let there be a picture for comparison:

http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/~camouflage/image/germanflecktarn.jpg

[mustamato]

And the new finnish light (read: warm weather) BDU "Hellepuku 2004" should be mentioned as well, it is under evaluation as we speak as I understand it, and being based on the german and danish one, also the camouflage.

http://www.holkkari.net/artikkelit/kuvat/Helleasu02.jpg

http://www.holkkari.net/artikkelit/kuvat/Helleasu01.jpg

(No there are no deserts in Finland, but in Eritrea/Ethiopia were Finland has UN-soldiers).

[Dalleer]

I wish that the new Hellepuku 2004- BDU's would be available in stores as well, however the real chances of it happening is quite small.

That reminds me, I guess the Swedish do not have these sorts of Desert BDU's that we speak off, I noticed all of them walking around in their M/90's in Afghanistan on one of those picture galleries.

[mustamato]

I wish that the new Hellepuku 2004- BDU's would be available in stores as well, however the real chances of it happening is quite small.

That reminds me, I guess the Swedish do not have these sorts of Desert BDU's that we speak off, I noticed all of them walking around in their M/90's in Afghanistan on one of those picture galleries.

But if I know the Finland right, that has a quite large market for reservist stuff, the Hellepuku will come out in a "slightly modified version" in a couple of years, probably by these guys http://www.maanpuolustusyhtio.fi/

M/90L actually. And L is of course "light". It is based on the norweigian one. Which in turn is quite similar to other similar uniforms out there. The reason why it has not been adopted in a desert camouflage version, well... the swedish military is not fast in ways of new thinking. While the finnish desert camouflage almost "popped up from nowhere" it can only be said that a new swedish camouflage would take som 10 years to get into service after has first been publicly known.

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_somunif1.jpg

[Dalleer]

Yes, I've bought certain items from Maanpuolustusyhtiö myself; although their prices might seem a bit too harsh from time to time, I consider it one of the few medium-priced surplus/reservist stores around in Finland...

And I've tested a few other stores as well, in terms of shipping, prices, and customer service.

But, I gather that this M/90L is not commercially available in Sweden, now is it?

[Smintjes]

Damn, I don't understand one word on that surplus site. Do they ship abroad? And would they answer if I sent them an email for an order?

Oh well, might as well try it.

[glofs]

That reminds me, I guess the Swedish do not have these sorts of Desert BDU's that we speak off, I noticed all of them walking around in their M/90's in Afghanistan on one of those picture galleries.

M/90L actually. And L is of course "light". It is based on the norweigian one. Which in turn is quite similar to other similar uniforms out there. The reason why it has not been adopted in a desert camouflage version, well... the swedish military is not fast in ways of new thinking. While the finnish desert camouflage almost "popped up from nowhere" it can only be said that a new swedish camouflage would take som 10 years to get into service after has first been publicly known.

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_somunif1.jpg

Sweden has a desert version of the M/90-uniform, but only for special ops so far... a bad scan of the pattern:
http://medlem.spray.se/henrikbernstrom/Bilder/Kammo.jpg


There's also a new winter-uniform for some selected few:
http://w1.401.comhem.se/~u40121499/taiga/images/FJS-02-Vinter_06.jpg

[Dalleer]

Wow, interesting patterns these Swedish snow camouflage and Desert suits...

But, where have you acquired this desert pattern?

If it's your scan, that is?

[glofs]

Not my scan - but it's the only pic I've seen of the desert version..

Both uniforms (and a more expensive goretex-version of the ordinary one) are intended for the non-conscript-units FJS IK (Fallskärmsjägarnas insatskompani) and SSG (Särskilda skyddsgruppen) which currently are in Afghanistan and Congo... there's not much to read, everything is very hush-hush about Sweden's "neutrality" and the use of lethal force in other countries by those units...

[usa320]

looks really nice indeed.

[mustamato]

Not my scan - but it's the only pic I've seen of the desert version..

Both uniforms (and a more expensive goretex-version of the ordinary one) are intended for the non-conscript-units FJS IK (Fallskärmsjägarnas insatskompani) and SSG (Särskilda skyddsgruppen) which currently are in Afghanistan and Congo... there's not much to read, everything is very hush-hush about Sweden's "neutrality" and the use of lethal force in other countries by those units...

But on the other hand, if SSG would be wearing those uniforms they could just as well yell out, "HELLOOO, LOOOK HEEERE, WE ARE SSG, COME AND TAKE PICTURES OF US". Thus, I wouldn´t be too surprised if they had something not expected on them, in Congo perhaps even french camouflage uniforms?

[Marxist203]

Nice camo though...CADPAT and uh..FIDPAT look way better than MARPAT

Do you want to wear a pattern that LOOKS good, or one WORKS good?

MARPAT actually WORKS better than CADPAT. CADPAT was designed for the temperate evergreen and desiduous vegetation of the northern regions of North America and Europe. Hence the useage of the brighter shades of green and reddish browns in the pattern. It was not designed to be as functional in all types of environments as was MARPAT. CADPAT stands out like a sore thumb in environments such as scrub brush, savanah and other environments where mid-tone colors are more prominent than brighter greens and reds. When MARPAT was being designed, it blew CADPAT away in tests conducted accross a wide array of different vegetation environments. The MARPAT pattern also wears better and maintains its effectiveness better as a uniform ages and the coloration begins to fade due to laundering and exposure to the elements.

Just thought you might care to know since you think CADPAT "looks" so much better.

So I dont care how pretty CADPAT or this new FINPAT or whatever it is look. I will take function over fashion any day.


There is this strange liquid coating they put onto the uniform to make the soldier less visible to thermal equipment.

The chemical treatment of uniforms to reflect less IR light has been in practice by most NATO countries for almost 20 years. That is why when you read the label of a uniform that has the chemical treatment on it, it says "Do not starch" in the laundering instructions.

That process is not proprietary to the Canadian armed forces, :roll:

Actually, you're wrong. MARPAT is more versatile than CADPAT...it is effective in all situations where as CADPAT is more effective in temperate terrain.

So, in all actuality, if the Marines were to use MARPAT in Finaland they'd stick out like a sore thumb. Where the Fins would fit right in...CADPAT(and its Finnish counterpart) are more useful for European climates and terrain.

[canucksvt]

Is that a Remington 870 on the ground in the 3rd photo down in the initial post? If so, that is a great choice. :D

[Dalleer]

Alright, so if there's a M/90L uniform for hot climates, then is the M/90 boonie-hat that' sold in Sweden somehow connected to it or is it just something that has been produced for the airsofters?

Just wondering mainly, since I've got one of those M/90 boonie-hats.

[mustamato]

Alright, so if there's a M/90L uniform for hot climates, then is the M/90 boonie-hat that' sold in Sweden somehow connected to it or is it just something that has been produced for the airsofters?

Just wondering mainly, since I've got one of those M/90 boonie-hats.

Well, http://www.militaryshop.se has had a boonie with the m/90 camo in their inventory for years. Selling them to wannabes of all kinds, and yeah, those airsofters. Officially the only allowed and somewhat similar type (Bashatt) was used by a special naval unit (picture below) that had to "earn" them, like in a beret test.

http://www.users.wineasy.se/mags/bassak/bilder/uppst.jpg

http://www.recon.se/Klader/bashatt.htm

But there was a lots of swedish soldiers doing missions in Bosnia/Kosovo that bought those boonies from Militaryshop and used them instead of what they were issued, and somehow that way they also got officially adopted as "Fälthatt Kamo". It is ugly as hell if you ask me, maybe not really just because of its looks, but I think it´s a bit embarrasing that it´s a direct copy of the american boonie (except the pattern), and that it was used by the wannabes first :)

http://www.militaryshop.se/bilder/produkter/Hu.M90.boonie.jpg

[Dalleer]

Selling them to wannabes of all kinds, and yeah, those airsofters

Heh heh, don't call me a "wannabe"...

I'd use a smiley if my iron will would permit it.

[Skaman]

We designed the digital pattern no? And by the way, the CADPAT fades well after a few washings and works great, I haven’t heard any concerns that the above has mentioned. Both our aired and wooded CADPAT work well, and look nice to boot. No complaints here. I live in a semi arid desert, and I find that the enemy force is often very difficult to find while they wear woodland cad pat despite the fact we are mostly sagebrush and lodge poll pine. Works well, no concerns here.

[FDF_Hemppis]

Time to bring this one up to the surface with new photos!

Pictures are from another forum, original thread can be found here (in Finnish): http://www.susi1.net/forum_viewtopic.php?22.18462
Descriptions are from the original authore, I'm just translating these the best I can.

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v151/Hemppis/K05/TST2005_1.jpg

Couple of different prototypes here, the one on the left is a flak vest, and the battle vest is shown right. All the pockets can be placed according to the users own preference. An interesting detail is the small rubber"pipe" on left guy's shoulder, which is designed to help getting the rifle butt right on shoulder when aiming fast. Another nice feature is the drag handle on the neck. A small piece has been removed from neck of the helmet to prevent it slipping and blocking the view. Also 2 different gloves under testing are visible.

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v151/Hemppis/K05/TST2005_2.jpg

Same thing as above, from a different angle.

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v151/Hemppis/K05/TST2005_3.jpg

The old M/91 BDU featuring the new camo pattern. It's made with computer by counting the optimal "average" from 50 summer-, 25 autumn- and 25 spring-photos. New to the old model (m/91) are smaller and more sharp-edged color areas and the 4th color, black.
Zippers and velcros try to be avoided because they stand out too much on night vision and thermal imagers, so buttons are used.

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v151/Hemppis/K05/TST2005_4.jpg

A pimped up RK95. Seems to be with Aimpoint and a tactical light. Also on the other side of the front sight is a laser aiming device. Remote switch for the light is on the hand guard. Also it has a tactical sling instead of the standard leather one.

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v151/Hemppis/K05/TST2005_5.jpg

Shown here are different prototype vests. A daypack can be fixed to the back on the vest, 2 sizes shown here. Also the shape of the new helmet is clearly shown.

Pictures and info are from the FDF show held last summer in Rovajärvi.

[mustamato]

OOoooooOooH yeah that´s some nice gear. Thanks for the pics!

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v151/Hemppis/K05/TST2005_3.jpg
But what is this? Will they still produce
the m/91 but with the new camo? That
camo is by the way fokkin ugly, but I guess
that doesn´t matter if it´s better :)

[FDF_Hemppis]

OHHH! Very stuuupid me! I was so quick posting the fotos, I didn't even notice it indeed is the old M/91 model, just with the new camo! :oops:

And hey, what do you mean the camo is ugly??!! :bash:

[LJK]

Mmm.. those look's great. woot

[mustamato]

And hey, what do you mean the camo is ugly??!! :bash:

It´s butt ugly, but maybe it´s because I´m just used to see Finnish soldiers
in good old m/62 m/91 and not this new m/05, maybe. By the way one of those
prototype vests looks kinda like the Blackhawk Strike DOAV:

http://www.lightfighter.com/ProductImages/Blackhawk/STRIKE/STRIKE-DOAV-web.jpg

... which is good, because it means that there is a huuuuge assortment of
pouches that can be bought to be used with the vest.

http://www.blackhawkindustries.com/product_catalog.asp?cat_id=9&d=

[FDF_Hemppis]

You're just being jealous! ;)
Seriously, IMO, the 62&91 patterns are butt ugly, this new one is wayyy better looking! (yeah, like that matters... p-))
Despite the M/91 (and especially the M/62) BDU looking somewhat bad, it works surprisingly well in the Finnish environment.

The battle vest is Finnish made, but guess MOLLE vests don't look much different no matter who makes 'em.
Anyways, I'm looking forward seeing this stuff on reservist market!

[Steve Railsback]

Not my scan - but it's the only pic I've seen of the desert version..

Both uniforms (and a more expensive goretex-version of the ordinary one) are intended for the non-conscript-units FJS IK (Fallskärmsjägarnas insatskompani) and SSG (Särskilda skyddsgruppen) which currently are in Afghanistan and Congo... there's not much to read, everything is very hush-hush about Sweden's "neutrality" and the use of lethal force in other countries by those units...

more pics of Swedish desert m/90

http://w1.401.comhem.se/~u40121499/taiga_040228/DES_03.jpg

http://w1.401.comhem.se/~u40121499/taiga_040228/DES_01.jpg

http://w1.401.comhem.se/~u40121499/taiga_040228/DES_02.jpg[/quote]

[Kekkonen]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/uni2.jpg
This soldier has the m/91 flak vest, the m/05 vest will have Pals attachments so
that pouches can be worn directly on flak vest if needed/wanted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/uni1.jpg
The soldier in the middle has the new m/05 helmet but with a m/91 cover to show
the difference from the m/05 camo on the uniforms. The helmet has a slightly different
shape than the kurrent m/91 kevlar helmet.

Photos shamefully ripped from: http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/joukot/porpr/porilainen303.pdf

http://www.finn-savotta.fi/kuvat/liivietu.jpghttp://www.finn-savotta.fi/kuvat/liivi.jpg

[Dalleer]

Holy hell !

Finally some good photos of that stuff.

Think those M/05 - boonie hats will be issued to us conscripts as well ?

[khukuri]

holy **** this is good stuff!

[FDF_Hemppis]

Think those M/05 - boonie hats will be issued to us conscripts as well ?

Most likely ;)


Eiköhän noi korvaa sen älyttömän sorsalätsän. Tai sitten niistä tulee KSE-hattuja M/91 lomalippiksen tapaan :P

[tvi]

m/05 helmet looks tight and light. Talousvarikko says, that new helmet is one of lightest combat helmet in world - I hope so.

Waiting, waiting (kunnes varastolta sanotaan, että mitään ei anneta...ainakaan kymmeneen vuoteen...)

[Kekkonen]

Waiting, waiting (kunnes varastolta sanotaan, että mitään ei anneta...ainakaan kymmeneen vuoteen...)

About not getting it in ten years, well I don´t think it is that bad. In fact I think that
mainly FRDF (rapid deployment force) will get it pretty fast, let´s say 2007 or so we can
probably expect that all Finnish soldiers abroad have the m/05 uniform system, or
the Hellepuku m/04 (which is already seen for example in Eritria used by the UNMEE
soldiers).

But then, getting it out to those peacetime training regiments/brigades for conscripts
to wear them, that won´t happen fast IMO due to simple economic reasons. The m/91
is a excellent uniform system and is probably already produced in pretty large numbers,
conscript service gives a pretty large wear and tear on the uniforms, especially
during the initial phase where there is a lot of crawling etc, and there is no logic in not
using the m/91 to that.

However I can guess that the conscripts will be issued m/05 as leave uniforms as soon
as they get available, which would free up the amount of m/91´s that can be used in the
field. So Kekkonen predicts: From 2007 Finnish conscripts will wear the m/91 in
the field and m/05 during leave.

[jean-marc6969]

I would like to take a look at the back of the pouches for the finnish attachement system

It seems to be some kind of MOLLE...

But does it use a snap as the original or something else different ?