Italian on trial for insulting Islam in her book

[Frogg]

Trial over Italian Islam 'insult'

Controversial Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci is to face trial for allegedly insulting the Muslim faith in her latest book, a court in Italy says.
Ms Fallaci is being sued by the head of the Muslim Union of Italy, who says The Force of Reason is defamatory.

The journalist caused an uproar with The Rage and the Pride, published two weeks after the 11 September attacks.

In it, she said Western culture was superior to Islam and Muslim immigrants in the West had "multiplied like rats".

Her lawyers have defended her right to express controversial opinions.

"At the heart of her thinking is the following reasoning: the fight against Islamic terrorism is made more difficult by intellectual terrorism cloaked in anti-racism," Gilles Goldhagen, said in 2002, when a French judge was hearing a case to ban The Rage and the Pride.

'No good Islam'

The Force of Reason is said to have gone to print about 24 hours after the 11 March 2004 train bombings in Spain.

In it, Ms Fallaci argues that Europe is turning into "an Islamic province, an Islamic colony" and that "to believe that a good Islam and a bad Islam exist goes against all reason".

Italian preliminary investigative judge Armando Grasso ordered the formulation of charges against the author, saying the book had expressions which were "unequivocally offensive to Islam".

Adel Smith, president of the Muslim Union of Italy, sued the writer on 8 April 2004. He says Ms Fallaci has been advocating and spreading hate against Islam and Muslims, sometimes by allegedly distorting real historical facts and inventing others.

The case is being tried in the northern town of Bergamo, where the book was published. The prosecution has 10 days to come up with a charge.

Ms Fallaci, who lives in New York, was a Resistance fighter in World War II and a former war correspondent.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/4576663.stm

Published: 2005/05/24 18:21:05 GMT

© BBC MMV

[obd]

"Intellectual terrorism cloaked in anti-racism"..........now THERE is a new spin

[obd]

Even though I disagree with the author the very idea that she could be sued because she expressed views which "insulted" Islam is absolute bull****. She should be able to freely express whatever views she wishes and let people either agree or disagree....................

Im not familiar with protections on free speech and freedom of expression laws in Italy but I would hope that the case against her would be thrown out. Im not in any way defending her ideas and statements about Islam, just her right to express them.

Anybody here familiar with Italian law that could say how likely it is the case will succeed against her and she will be forced to pay damages??

[hughdotoh]

oh the moral outrage. speak your rejection of islam and you get sued.

[BigBaribal]

Dhimmitud in action :roll:

It's perhaps time to make lists of treators.

[Echo7]

Have any of you researched anything about her??
BTW @@##$ islam.

[BigBaribal]

Have any of you researched anything about her??
BTW @@##$ islam.

You probably not understood me (I was too elusive also): as "treators", I was not of course speaking of Oriana Fallaci (I already read her first book on the subject of Eurabia), but of the judges who will examine her case.

[Damian]

It isn't strange that she's under trial: just few weeks ago Italian's judges freed A LOT of muslem terrorists because in their opinion they were just freedom fighters rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl that The fact that they were recruting terrorists and sending them to iraq [to kill Italian and Allied soldiers] was irrelevant :bash: :bash: :bash:

She's one of my favourite writers !!!

The book The Rage and The Pride is GREAT !

[Mailman]

Damian, have you got a link to that case?

Seems to me you can attack a country with virtiol (what we see everyday from the anti-americans posters on the net and in the media) YET you cant attack Islam? You can attack Catholocism....yet you cant attack Islam???

Does anyone see the double standards here?

Mailman

[Werewolf01]

Why doens't the Italian Governemnt just give $ straight to AQ and have it over with? Freedom of speech is non-existant now in Italy I assume.

[BigBaribal]

Why doens't the Italian Governemnt just give $ straight to AQ and have it over with? Freedom of speech is non-existant now in Italy I assume.

Like in almost all European countries in which "antiracist" laws have been voted (by "racist" you must of course understand someone who is winning an argument with a liberal.).

[Werewolf01]

Why doens't the Italian Governemnt just give $ straight to AQ and have it over with? Freedom of speech is non-existant now in Italy I assume.

Like in almost all European countries in which "antiracist" laws have been voted (by "racist" you must of course understand someone who is winning an argument with a liberal.).

;) Gotcha.

[Legion]

Even though I disagree with the author the very idea that she could be sued because she expressed views which "insulted" Islam is absolute bull****. She should be able to freely express whatever views she wishes and let people either agree or disagree....................

Im not familiar with protections on free speech and freedom of expression laws in Italy but I would hope that the case against her would be thrown out. Im not in any way defending her ideas and statements about Islam, just her right to express them.

Anybody here familiar with Italian law that could say how likely it is the case will succeed against her and she will be forced to pay damages??

Wow! I agree with...obd.

[AROUETLJ]

She should be able to freely express whatever views she wishes and let people either agree or disagree

That's how antisemitism starts.

[BigBaribal]

She should be able to freely express whatever views she wishes and let people either agree or disagree

That's how antisemitism starts.


He, he, wrong remark, Oriana Fallaci is strongly pro-sionist ;)


The most clever jewish lobbies have in fact now understood that it's not in their interest that Europe becomes one day Eurabia: that's why some European "rightists" or nationalists have now a little bit more space to move.

[AROUETLJ]

No, it's not a wrong remark, I knew she was pro-Israel and Jews. What I meant was that there is a limit to freedom of expression. You van't just go about slagging off certain religions. It happens with Judaism, and people rightly get prosecuted. We should apply the same standards to Islam.

Do you know the sort of words Fallaci uses? Among other things, she calls Muslims "i fottuti figli di Allah" , "the ****ing sons of Allah". I don't think that's the sort of language that should be used when referring to any religion.

[sierraone]

Oriana Fallaci is a former communist. She was the girlfriend of Alexandros Panagoulis who tried to assasinate the colonel in charge of the Junta in Greece in 1972 I believe, George Papadopoulos.

She has gone anti-Islamic as have many former European communists. The systems do certainly clash in a big style. Come to think of it, Islam pretty well clashes with everything.

[Legion]

No, it's not a wrong remark, I knew she was pro-Israel and Jews. What I meant was that there is a limit to freedom of expression. You van't just go about slagging off certain religions. It happens with Judaism, and people rightly get prosecuted. We should apply the same standards to Islam.

Do you know the sort of words Fallaci uses? Among other things, she calls Muslims "i fottuti figli di Allah" , "the f*** sons of Allah". I don't think that's the sort of language that should be used when referring to any religion.

So people should be able to say whatever, as long as it's not about religion? :roll:

What a world where you could go to jail for disparaging remarks about Brother Bob Tilton. rofl

http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2000/11/21/tilton/story.jpg

[BigBaribal]

No, it's not a wrong remark, I knew she was pro-Israel and Jews. What I meant was that there is a limit to freedom of expression. You van't just go about slagging off certain religions. It happens with Judaism, and people rightly get prosecuted. We should apply the same standards to Islam.

Do you know the sort of words Fallaci uses? Among other things, she calls Muslims "i fottuti figli di Allah" , "the f*** sons of Allah". I don't think that's the sort of language that should be used when referring to any religion.


On this point, I agree with you.

I don't want islam in Europe, but there's no need to insult muslim people this way.

This being said, you cannot handle everything always with white gloves.

[AROUETLJ]

Try to understand what I'm saying. It's one thing to call these tele-millionaire-pseudo-evangelists crazy, and quite another to insult Islam in that way.

She might as well say "****ing sons of God" for Christians and Jews too, since the three religions believe in the same God, no?

Kid gloves? Never.

But rabble-rousing masquerading as intellectualism? That's even worse. It's not bad, it's stupid.

[BigBaribal]

.....since the three religions believe in the same God, no?


Sorry, but no.

Christians believe that Christ is God. For the muslims, he's only a prophed and for the jews nothing.

Btw, Christians are not especially well treated in the koran and the talmud, but it's of course not a reason to begin a war today.

[Clarsachier]

This reminds me of when I bought Salmon Rushdie's book just to support
him when he was 'sentanced to death' back in the 90's.

The book really sucked. Rhetorical pantameter. :| I noticed a lot of copies in the used book store.

[Oddball]

This reminds me of when I bought Salmon Rushdie's book just to support
him when he was 'sentanced to death' back in the 90's.

The book really sucked. Rhetorical pantameter. :| I noticed a lot of copies in the used book store.

x2

I didn't make it past page ten. :)

[Legion]

Try to understand what I'm saying. It's one thing to call these tele-millionaire-pseudo-evangelists crazy, and quite another to insult Islam in that way.

She might as well say "f*** sons of God" for Christians and Jews too, since the three religions believe in the same God, no?

Kid gloves? Never.

But rabble-rousing masquerading as intellectualism? That's even worse. It's not bad, it's stupid.
I understand what you are saying. If an offhand, trying to funny, but not succeeding kind of way, what I was trying to get across was freedom of speech is a very important thing.

"F**k sons of <insert your god here>" is offensive to a lot of people, but (at least in the US) it is a constitutional right to say it, and it should stay that way.

[AROUETLJ]

You have some strange laws in the US. You can call God a ****ing son of a bitch, but you can't burn the US flag.

I mean I would put them on the same level. They're both freedom of expression.

[AROUETLJ]

Hey, I wasn't too sure about that, is it illegal to burn the US flag? I remember reading it somewhere and thinking "This is crazy!" but I forget which way it was.

[Damian]

Damian, have you got a link to that case?

Seems to me you can attack a country with virtiol (what we see everyday from the anti-americans posters on the net and in the media) YET you cant attack Islam? You can attack Catholocism....yet you cant attack Islam???

Does anyone see the double standards here?

Mailman

I could find something on the net but only in italian....

[Legion]

Hey, I wasn't too sure about that, is it illegal to burn the US flag? I remember reading it somewhere and thinking "This is crazy!" but I forget which way it was.

Nope, it's legal. Won't make you any friends though.

[Damian]

Why doens't the Italian Governemnt just give $ straight to AQ and have it over with? Freedom of speech is non-existant now in Italy I assume.

It Did.

Italian government paid a lot of MILLIONS [of dollars] to al-****ing-quaedda to free italian volunters kidnapped in iraq (who approved or at least tolerate terrorists and saddams' job).

[Damian]

Nope, it's legal. Won't make you any friends though.[/quote]

It also should be legal to beat who burns the US Flag.

[AROUETLJ]

In many countries it's illegal to burn the flag. Hell, in my country it's even illegal for a private individual to fly another country's flag. Weird, huh?

[FB]

Why doens't the Italian Governemnt just give $ straight to AQ and have it over with? Freedom of speech is non-existant now in Italy I assume.

It Did.

Italian government paid a lot of MILLIONS [of dollars] to al-f***-quaedda to free italian volunters kidnapped in iraq (who approved or at least tolerate terrorists and saddams' job).

This has always been officially denied by the Government in several occasions. So, officially, not a cent was given to the kidnappers.

As far as Miss Fallaci goes, it should be interesting to note a couple of things:

Mr. Adel Smith (the guy who started the case and whose complete name is Emilio Adel Smith) is always in search for the media spotlight. In reality his Muslim organisation counts, a part himself, only a few supporters. Interesting to note, also, his origins: he was born in Egypt from an Italian father (having Schottish heritage) and an Egyptian woman. He was baptised but converted to Islam in the '80es.

I suspect (how hyronic) that if a case against Miss Fallaci will really be discussed in a trial, it will be under the laws that were passed not so many years ago in order to protect the Jews from antisemitism (and the fear of it).

Best regards

[FB]

Why doens't the Italian Governemnt just give $ straight to AQ and have it over with? Freedom of speech is non-existant now in Italy I assume.

It Did.

Italian government paid a lot of MILLIONS [of dollars] to al-f***-quaedda to free italian volunters kidnapped in iraq (who approved or at least tolerate terrorists and saddams' job).

This has always been officially denied by the Government in several occasions. So, officially, not a cent was given to the kidnappers.

As far as Miss Fallaci goes, it should be interesting to note a couple of things:

Mr. Adel Smith (the guy who started the case and whose complete name is Emilio Adel Smith) is always in search for the media spotlight. In reality his Muslim organisation counts, a part himself, only a few supporters. Interesting to note, also, his origins: he was born in Egypt from an Italian father (having Schottish heritage) and an Egyptian woman. He was baptised but converted to Islam in the '80es.

I suspect (how hyronic) that if a case against Miss Fallaci will really be discussed in a trial, it will be under the laws that were passed not so many years ago in order to protect the Jews from antisemitism.

Best regards

[2Sheds_Jackson]

It's truly shocking to me to see the limits on free speech in the "progressive" and "free" Europe of today. It would seem to me that if one is to build a better world - emphasis should be put on the attitudes of the listener, to be able to hear and process information they may find objectionable, and to not react with violence - rather than curbing the rights to articulate what's on the speaker's mind.

This idiotic modus operandi has made inroads into the most "progressive" areas of the US too - namely our Colleges and Universities. Rather than being places of free expression and thought, speech is tightly controlled, and you may not articulate things that have been deemed improper by those in control. They have resorted to creating "free speech zones" - the only areas where one may have the temerity to speak freely and disturb the status quo. Note that these do not extend into the classroom.

It's as many have predicted - as liberal (small "L") principles advance, and individual rights continually expand - the concept of community and our responsibilities to each other diminish. There comes a point where society's cohesion breaks down - where we are balkanized at the individual level. In order to maintain control, an ever larger central government is required -laws become more and more restrictive, because individuals no longer feel compelled to restrict their own behavior. If they had a means to control individual thought, they'd probably regulate that too.

[RBIH_Troop]

That biotch can suck my Ballz! People like her should be SHOT like 16 000 million times and then ****en pissed on and ****ten on!

[2Sheds_Jackson]

That biotch can suck my Ballz! People like her should be SHOT like 16 000 million times and then f*** pissed on and ****ten on!

Well at least he's not advocating violence just because of what somebody said. :roll:

[Legion]

That biotch can suck my Ballz! People like her should be SHOT like 16 000 million times and then f*** pissed on and ****ten on!

Well at least he's not advocating violence just because of what somebody said. :roll:

I was just thinking how long it would take to actually shoot someone 16,000 million times...jeez!

[Frank Discussion]

That biotch can suck my Ballz! People like her should be SHOT like 16 000 million times and then f*** pissed on and ****ten on!

Come on now, mods... what is this turning into, some sort of scatological forum? Do we really have to suffer idiocy like this clown is spouting forth?

[Erik2a4]

Come to think of it, Islam pretty well clashes with everything.

It's like the hot pink of religions...

...you see a lot of strange people all wrapped up in it, but you can't figure out why.

Bwahahahaha...oh, I kill me... where's the beer?:lol:

[Ayura]

Drinking Piss isn't healthy for you ya know :)

[chauncy republicans]

That biotch can suck my Ballz! People like her should be SHOT like 16 000 million times and then f*** pissed on and ****ten on!
rofl