Amnesty International Report 2005

[Yosy]

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/index-eng

The UN failed (again): Darfur. The Security Council did **** all: China didn't move beacause of their oil interests, Russia didn't move because of their weapons sales to the sudanese government, the US called the situation "a genocide" but didn't lift a finger to help.

Worse than Darfur, and less-known, is the situation in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where big companies are into the pot of a deadly war.

[Benny]

Nevermind that - Guterres will surely solve all those conflicts. ;)

[ridenrain]

"ooooh, survivors on.." :cantbeli:


What do you know, history repeats itself again. The rest of the world dosen't care unless they can make some money off it.
Pathetic..

[Avary]

That's not the proper way to introduce the Amnesty International report, my friend. Here's how you do it properly :


US Imperialists Indicted As Worst Human Rights Abusers In World History (http://songun-blog.blogspot.com/2005/05/us-imperialists-indicted-as-worst.html)

Once again, we see that the US imperialists' hypocritical bluster of their so called "North Korea Human Rights Act" (http://www.anti-imperialist.org/korea_human-rights_11-9-04.htm) is nothing but a shrill cry designed to cover-up their desperate war-moves to stifle the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and its Juche-based system freely chosen by the people single-mindedly united in undying loyalty for the Dear Leader Comrade Generalissimo Kim Jong Il.

The just-released Amnesty International report on human rights indicting the US as the most atrocious vultures for crimes against humanity proves that the US imperialists are the worst human rights violators in world's history, as reported by the BBC :


Amnesty accuses US over 'torture' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4578627.stm)

Governments around the world betrayed their commitment to human rights in 2004, Amnesty International says.

In a 300-page annual report, the group accused the US government of damaging human rights with its attitude to torture and treatment of detainees.

This granted "a licence to others to commit abuse with impunity", the human rights advocates said.

The report also criticized the world as a whole for failing to act over crises, notably in Sudan's Darfur region.

Afghanistan [now under US imperialist colonial rule -ed.] was slipping into a "downward spiral of lawlessness and instability", it added.

...

In Iraq some of the violence could be blamed on armed groups [such groups did not exist under the benevolent regime of the rightful Iraqi Leader President Saddam Hussein, only to appear with the arrival of the US imperialist occupiers, leading to suspicions that they are in fact CIA death squads -ed.] but the report also blamed US-led coalition forces for "unlawful killings, torture and other violations".

"Torture and ill-treatment by US-led forces were widely reported," it added.

The report also highlighted the London-based organization's concerns about:

Slow progress in achieving the Millennium Development goals

Lack of a full independent investigation into abuses against detainees in US custody in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay.

...

"When the most powerful country in the world thumbs its nose at the rule of law and human rights, it grants a license to others to commit abuse with impunity."

The administration was seeking "to dilute the absolute ban on torture", Ms Khan added.

The US government has not commented on the report so far.
My friend, you're supposed to take the AI report and turn it into an anti-US bashing circlejerk.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

It's true that nobody can write an even-handed article quite like North Korea can -but the AI report itself is pretty well screwed from the get-go.

According to them, the US is now a "hyper-power" which gives license to nations around the world to oppress people as they see fit, all in the name of "anti-terror". Funny, I don't recall the Senate being asked, or approving any such action. Not only that, I really don't think we have authority to do that to begin with. Or do we?

Following AI's logic, apparently the US is in charge of the world, and may rightfully tell other nations what is appropriate, and what is not. Of course it follows that since we are in charge, that what we say goes, and they can STFU.

It amazes me that even when these AI trolls sniff around in the darkest 3rd world crap holes, they still manage to find a way to excuse the locals (who after all, don't look like us, talk funny, and cannot be expected to display better behavior), and blame friendly ol' mom & pop America for all the world's woes. We should know better, and the others can't be expected to - right?

Is there any wonder that AI is simply going through the motions, with nobody listening to them? They've utterly discredited themselves, and turned their organization into a joke. What do they care - their fundraising base is organized, they have brand recognition, and they probably have to produce at least one report annually to keep their tax exempt status - they may as well have some fun, right?

[Avary]

US Imperialists War Crimes In Iraq

Not content with just stealing their oil, the criminal Bush clique of US imperialist oil-thirsty human rights abusers are now stealing the Iraqi childrens' puppies :

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/233/3034/400/Soldier%20and%20Puppy.jpg

Isn't the abuse of children the most abominable of all crimes? The world's progressives rightly castigate the criminal US imperialists as the worst human rights violators in world history.

[ridenrain]

Could you get Dear Leader Comrade Generalissimo Kim Jong Il to write me some performance reviews or maybe some letters of recommendation for my resume?
Has he done any physics text books yet?

[Avary]

The Dear Leader wrote many books, something like 1400 in his days as college student alone. Some of his works can be found here (http://www.kcckp.net/en/book/reading.php?3+0).

He also writes songs and operas. Click here for "Where are you, Dear General?" (http://www.kcckp.net/mp3player.php?e+27)

[scm77]

He also writes songs and operas. Click here for "Where are you, Dear General?" (http://www.kcckp.net/mp3player.php?e+27)

Don't forget his greatest work I'm so Ronery (http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/teamamericaworldpolice/imsoronery.htm)

rofl

[Yosy]

"ooooh, survivors on.." :cantbeli:


What do you know, history repeats itself again. The rest of the world dosen't care unless they can make some money off it.
Pathetic..

So true.


The Dear Leader wrote many books, something like 1400 in his days as college student alone. Some of his works can be found here (http://www.kcckp.net/en/book/reading.php?3+0).


All his books are permentaly in the top 10 :lol:

[SeanAshi]

If the United States acts then the world points the finger at us, if the United States does not act then the world points the finger at us. We should help the Sudanese but the world will see it as the American crusaders going to kill more muslims.

[Aerosoul]

"United" Nations. How ironic.

[Miles.]

It's true that nobody can write an even-handed article quite like North Korea can -but the AI report itself is pretty well screwed from the get-go.

According to them, the US is now a "hyper-power" which gives license to nations around the world to oppress people as they see fit, all in the name of "anti-terror". Funny, I don't recall the Senate being asked, or approving any such action. Not only that, I really don't think we have authority to do that to begin with. Or do we?

Following AI's logic, apparently the US is in charge of the world, and may rightfully tell other nations what is appropriate, and what is not. Of course it follows that since we are in charge, that what we say goes, and they can STFU.

It amazes me that even when these AI trolls sniff around in the darkest 3rd world crap holes, they still manage to find a way to excuse the locals (who after all, don't look like us, talk funny, and cannot be expected to display better behavior), and blame friendly ol' mom & pop America for all the world's woes. We should know better, and the others can't be expected to - right?

Is there any wonder that AI is simply going through the motions, with nobody listening to them? They've utterly discredited themselves, and turned their organization into a joke. What do they care - their fundraising base is organized, they have brand recognition, and they probably have to produce at least one report annually to keep their tax exempt status - they may as well have some fun, right?

2Sheds, I don't care what they say about you. I love you, man...(not in the Tom of Finland ways...)

[vryhpyammoadded]

AI…Five stages of death anxiety.
Denial + Blame shift = insanity/corruption
It’s the paradigm shift in action.

[Frogg]

Let me get this straight....AI writes a 300 page report about American gulags in GITMO after being denied access to the prisons?

[Yosy]

If the United States acts then the world points the finger at us, if the United States does not act then the world points the finger at us. We should help the Sudanese but the world will see it as the American crusaders going to kill more muslims.

Yeah, the whole world "pointed the finger" at the US in the first Gulf War, Lebanon, Somalia, Panama, Granada and A-stan :roll:

[2Sheds_Jackson]

If the United States acts then the world points the finger at us, if the United States does not act then the world points the finger at us. We should help the Sudanese but the world will see it as the American crusaders going to kill more muslims.

Yeah, the whole world "pointed the finger" at the US in the first Gulf War, Lebanon, Somalia, Panama, Granada and A-stan :roll:

Come on now...you're not trying to say that there was no opposition to the first Gulf War, Lebanon, Somalia, Panama, Granada, or A-stan, are you? You can very quickly Google images from anti-war demonstrations (featuring the usual cast of useful idiots), hand wringing at the UN, outrage at NGO's etc.

You see, the perverse influence of pop culture has assured that the motives behind war no longer matter much. All war must be opposed - it is inherently evil - and you'll see the same batch of fools out on the streets with their placards, burning flags, giant uncle Sam paper-mache statues to beat with sticks, Che Guevara T-shirts etc., no matter what the war is about. Unless of course it is a war not prosecuted by the United States. Those wars don't matter, and can be left alone (mostly because if you're some NGO snoop trying to dig up human rights abuses in a 3rd-world conflict, and you get caught, you don't wind up back at your hotel with a stern talking-to...you wind up dead).

Interesting tidbit about AI that I found, which pretty much sums up my problem with AI (and a lot of other NGOs too)



Selection Bias
It is widely accepted that there are a disproportionate number of AI reports on relatively more democratic and open countries. This is the major source of the charge of "selection bias", with critics pointing to a disproportionate focus on allegations of human rights violations in for example Israel, when compared with North Korea or Cambodia. The term "selection bias" is however potentially misleading, since it derives from statistics, and AI's intention is not to produce a range of reports which statistically represents the world's human rights abuses. Instead, its aim is (a) to document what it can, in order to (b) produce pressure for improvement. These two factors slew the number of reports towards more open and democratic countries, because information is more easily obtainable, and because their governments are more susceptible to public pressure.

A tendency to over-report allegations of human rights abuse in nations that are comparatively lesser violators of human rights has been called "Moynihan's Law," after the late American Senator and former Ambassador to the United Nations Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who is said to have stated that at the United Nations, the number of complaints about a nation's violation of human rights is inversely proportional to their actual violation of human rights.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Amnesty-International


Now normally, I'd prefer a kick in the crotch to quoting Moynihan, but in this case he's right. AI spends most of it's time harping about low-level abuses occurring in democratic nations - and not nearly enough digging into places where heads are lopped off, and people spend their entire lives in gulags farming potatoes, or on sugar cane farms for their political speech.

The effect of this, is that democratic nations are held to a higher standard than the rest of the world (since they are effectively immune from scrutiny and criticism). As Churchill said " I do not see why we should have the disadvantages of being the gentleman while they have all the advantages of being the cad." Harrumph.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Also remember it is much easier to gather information about Guantonamo then what it is in any police state. Another thing to consider.

[hughdotoh]

Note that AI also means Artificial Intelligence.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

mmmm could it be that AI is actually a group of robots, who only inspect 1st world facilities because they’re wheelchair accessible - and the robots can easily roll into them? That would explain a lot.

[hughdotoh]

more like they have no real intelligence

[Avary]

If the United States acts then the world points the finger at us, if the United States does not act then the world points the finger at us. We should help the Sudanese but the world will see it as the American crusaders going to kill more muslims.

Yeah, the whole world "pointed the finger" at the US in the first Gulf War, Lebanon, Somalia, Panama, Granada and A-stan :roll:

Come on now...you're not trying to say that there was no opposition to the first Gulf War, Lebanon, Somalia, Panama, Granada, or A-stan, are you? You can very quickly Google images from anti-war demonstrations (featuring the usual cast of useful idiots), hand wringing at the UN, outrage at NGO's etc.

You see, the perverse influence of pop culture has assured that the motives behind war no longer matter much. All war must be opposed - it is inherently evil - and you'll see the same batch of fools out on the streets with their placards, burning flags, giant uncle Sam paper-mache statues to beat with sticks, Che Guevara T-shirts etc., no matter what the war is about. Unless of course it is a war not prosecuted by the United States. Those wars don't matter, and can be left alone (mostly because if you're some NGO snoop trying to dig up human rights abuses in a 3rd-world conflict, and you get caught, you don't wind up back at your hotel with a stern talking-to...you wind up dead).

Interesting tidbit about AI that I found, which pretty much sums up my problem with AI (and a lot of other NGOs too)



Selection Bias
It is widely accepted that there are a disproportionate number of AI reports on relatively more democratic and open countries. This is the major source of the charge of "selection bias", with critics pointing to a disproportionate focus on allegations of human rights violations in for example Israel, when compared with North Korea or Cambodia. The term "selection bias" is however potentially misleading, since it derives from statistics, and AI's intention is not to produce a range of reports which statistically represents the world's human rights abuses. Instead, its aim is (a) to document what it can, in order to (b) produce pressure for improvement. These two factors slew the number of reports towards more open and democratic countries, because information is more easily obtainable, and because their governments are more susceptible to public pressure.

A tendency to over-report allegations of human rights abuse in nations that are comparatively lesser violators of human rights has been called "Moynihan's Law," after the late American Senator and former Ambassador to the United Nations Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who is said to have stated that at the United Nations, the number of complaints about a nation's violation of human rights is inversely proportional to their actual violation of human rights.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Amnesty-International


Now normally, I'd prefer a kick in the crotch to quoting Moynihan, but in this case he's right. AI spends most of it's time harping about low-level abuses occurring in democratic nations - and not nearly enough digging into places where heads are lopped off, and people spend their entire lives in gulags farming potatoes, or on sugar cane farms for their political speech.

The effect of this, is that democratic nations are held to a higher standard than the rest of the world (since they are effectively immune from scrutiny and criticism). As Churchill said " I do not see why we should have the disadvantages of being the gentleman while they have all the advantages of being the cad." Harrumph.
My thoughts exactly, except that you worded them better than I ever could.

About that All Wars Must Be Opposed : It's an usual leftist shrill cry but has anyone noticed the Human Shieldstm went to Iraq in defense of Saddam and go to Israel in defense of Hamas but were nowhere to be seen in Darfur, Bosnia, Kossovo, Chechnya, East Timor, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Tibet, Myanmar, Sri lanka, and I could go on forever. These asshats are not opposed to war. They are opposed to the US; they are in fact on the other side. In WW2 these moonbats would have been taken off the streets and locked up in jail. Now they get whole media networks and universities to themselves.

Meanwhile Kim Jong Il must be laughing is ass off watching these mindless morons droning on about how America is Nazi Germany and George Bush worst than Hitler, while he's running real concentrations camps, complete with fully working gas chambers.

AI's attitude of going after the eeeeeeeeevil amerikkkkkkkkkkkans (are there enough evil soundings Ks, or should I put more?) might get them an ego boost and win them friends in leftist circles, but it come at the price of, in effect, making them the objective allies of murdering tyrants, by shifting attention and pressure from them to the US.

[Yosy]

Come on now...you're not trying to say that there was no opposition to the first Gulf War, Lebanon, Somalia, Panama, Granada, or A-stan, are you? You can very quickly Google images from anti-war demonstrations (featuring the usual cast of useful idiots), hand wringing at the UN, outrage at NGO's etc.


Oi... there'll always be people protesting against everything the US does. But there's a difference between those idiots with too much time on their hands that are unable to see past their ridiculous theories, and protests that go into the Guiness Book of Records as the biggest anti-war rallies ever (before 3 Weeks War).

[vryhpyammoadded]

mmmm could it be that AI is actually a group of robots, who only inspect 1st world facilities because they’re wheelchair accessible - and the robots can easily roll into them? That would explain a lot.

LOL, images of mobile ash cans with the Amnesty International symbol emblazoned on there carapace and blazing white hot death pouring from lasers come to mind...
We come in peace...we want to help save you from oppression...join us…exterminate, Exterminate!

[martinexsquaddie]

amnesty have been around a long time and piss off virtually every goverment on the planet.
how about answering some of there charges.
gitmo ignoring the geneva\convention
rummy and others making comments about ok the use of torture
abu grade
backing uzbeckistan etc etc

[Prometheus]

Come on now...you're not trying to say that there was no opposition to the first Gulf War, Lebanon, Somalia, Panama, Granada, or A-stan, are you? You can very quickly Google images from anti-war demonstrations (featuring the usual cast of useful idiots), hand wringing at the UN, outrage at NGO's etc.


Oi... there'll always be people protesting against everything the US does. But there's a difference between those idiots with too much time on their hands that are unable to see past their ridiculous theories, and protests that go into the Guiness Book of Records as the biggest anti-war rallies ever (before 3 Weeks War).


That's the point. Lefties and Freedom activists always protest against every military action and the USA.

But since the USA occupied the Iraq in an illegal war the middle of the society is against the USA, only right-wings are pro Bush, pro USA and pro war. That's the point the Americans often ignore and this will cause serious problems for the USA in the future. You've lost the war for hearts and minds, even the Europeans, the closest US allies, don't want to be called "friends" of the USA in these days. That's something the USA should be worried about.

But for Bush and his Neo-Con supporters we're just "Eurowussies" and "evil", "old Europe" yadda-yadda-yadda...

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Come on now...you're not trying to say that there was no opposition to the first Gulf War, Lebanon, Somalia, Panama, Granada, or A-stan, are you? You can very quickly Google images from anti-war demonstrations (featuring the usual cast of useful idiots), hand wringing at the UN, outrage at NGO's etc.


Oi... there'll always be people protesting against everything the US does. But there's a difference between those idiots with too much time on their hands that are unable to see past their ridiculous theories, and protests that go into the Guiness Book of Records as the biggest anti-war rallies ever (before 3 Weeks War).


That's the point. Lefties and Freedom activists always protest against every military action and the USA.

But since the USA occupied the Iraq in an illegal war the middle of the society is against the USA, only right-wings are pro Bush, pro USA and pro war. That's the point the Americans often ignore and this will cause serious problems for the USA in the future. You've lost the war for hearts and minds, even the Europeans, the closest US allies, don't want to be called "friends" of the USA in these days. That's something the USA should be worried about.

But for Bush and his Neo-Con supporters we're just "Eurowussies" and "evil", "old Europe" yadda-yadda-yadda...

I beg to differ. You'd be hard pressed to find a more middle-of the road average Joe than I am. Although for the record, my name is not Joe. But you see what I mean. You vastly underestimate the broad-based support for Bush and the War that exists in this country.

Could you explain the underlying logic behind your statements?

First - "illegal war" - what is that? Can you cite an example of a legal war, and show how it differs from an illegal war? What exactly makes it "legal" - your opinion of it?

If only "right wingers" are pro Bush and pro-war, can you explain how he won the election? Was it slight of hand?

"Old" Europe stopped being our closest allies the moment the Cold War ended, and they were no longer required to accede to our requests in exchange for our protection. The Iraq War did not cause this change, it merely served as the perfect example to illustrate what had already happened. Many of our "friends" were saying one thing and doing another years before the UN vote on the war, and their "no" vote was merely an attempt to forestall discovery of their treachery.

Personally, I do not consider nations who exhibit that kind of behavior to be our "friends", no matter what they'd like to pretend. We're better off without them. "Fool me once,..." as they say.

It is simply a matter of national interests. Europe, now free of the threat posed by the USSR, feels empowered to make deals and conduct business that's sharply in contrast to what the US would like. That's fine, but let's not kid ourselves about who has changed their ways. The US continues to pursue the same goals they always have - and on the other hand we had France about to sell high tech weapons systems to China, being a close business partner with Saddam, betraying our trust at the UN. You've changed, we don't want you back. We just don't love you any more. It's not you, it's us. You should meet our new friends, you'd like them really. They’re a lot like you used to be. :lol:

Of course it's not as bad as all that...but I doubt it will go back to exactly how it was.

[moughoun]

"Old" Europe stopped being our closest allies the moment the Cold War ended, and they were no longer required to accede to our requests in exchange for our protection. The Iraq War did not cause this change, it merely served as the perfect example to illustrate what had already happened. Many of our "friends" were saying one thing and doing another years before the UN vote on the war, and their "no" vote was merely an attempt to forestall discovery of their treachery

Henry Kissenger put it best God rest the old coot, Countries don't have allies/friend's only interest's, the US interest during the cold war was to contain the Soviet's, not some noble effort to Keep Europe free, better to blow the crap out of central Europe then find Ivan knocking on the Whitehouse door p-)

ps so your name really is 2 shed's? p-)

[Ratman]

It's true that nobody can write an even-handed article quite like North Korea can -but the AI report itself is pretty well screwed from the get-go.

According to them, the US is now a "hyper-power" which gives license to nations around the world to oppress people as they see fit, all in the name of "anti-terror". Funny, I don't recall the Senate being asked, or approving any such action. Not only that, I really don't think we have authority to do that to begin with. Or do we?

Following AI's logic, apparently the US is in charge of the world, and may rightfully tell other nations what is appropriate, and what is not. Of course it follows that since we are in charge, that what we say goes, and they can STFU.

It amazes me that even when these AI trolls sniff around in the darkest 3rd world crap holes, they still manage to find a way to excuse the locals (who after all, don't look like us, talk funny, and cannot be expected to display better behavior), and blame friendly ol' mom & pop America for all the world's woes. We should know better, and the others can't be expected to - right?

Is there any wonder that AI is simply going through the motions, with nobody listening to them? They've utterly discredited themselves, and turned their organization into a joke. What do they care - their fundraising base is organized, they have brand recognition, and they probably have to produce at least one report annually to keep their tax exempt status - they may as well have some fun, right?

2Sheds, IMO, both the US and the unitelligible village abuser should both be held accountable? China, yup, Columbia, up, Saudis, yup, USA, yup....

....Of course it follows that since we are in charge, that what we say goes, and they can STFU.

And, IMO, this is how the present administration acts and that is why ultimately they will not gain ground in the actions aimed at reducing international terrorism. Just more enemies.

[Prometheus]

You vastly underestimate the broad-based support for Bush and the War that exists in this country.


In YOUR country... but in no other country. That's my point.



First - "illegal war" - what is that? Can you cite an example of a legal war, and show how it differs from an illegal war?

Legal war e.g. 2nd Gulf war, legalized by the UN security council
Illegal war: "Operation Iraqi Freedom" - illegal offensive war against a souvereign country which was no threat to the USA



If only "right wingers" are pro Bush and pro-war, can you explain how he won the election? Was it slight of hand?

cheating?

Don't ask me, but you've missed my point. I've talked about the world, not about the USA.



Personally, I do not consider nations who exhibit that kind of behavior to be our "friends", no matter what they'd like to pretend. We're better off without them. "Fool me once,..." as they say.

Hehe... better without us? Even more interesting as you see Bush/Rumsfeld/Rice begging for our support, our money and our troops for Iraq... but that's your war, we will not send our troops to die for US lobbyists.



You've changed, we don't want you back.

Correct we've changend, this is called evolution.
Most parts of the USA are socially still in the 19th century and the bible-nazis become more and more powerful. But hey... that's your problem. Wish you a nice life in Jesusland - the christian counterpart to Iran.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

You vastly underestimate the broad-based support for Bush and the War that exists in this country.


In YOUR country... but in no other country. That's my point.

So? We should tailor our foreign policy to please you? That's a bit silly, no? I would not expect your country to do so, why should you expect ours to do it for you?





First - "illegal war" - what is that? Can you cite an example of a legal war, and show how it differs from an illegal war?

Legal war e.g. 2nd Gulf war, legalized by the UN security council
Illegal war: "Operation Iraqi Freedom" - illegal offensive war against a souvereign country which was no threat to the USA

The UN doesn't "legalize" anything. The mere fact that you think it does illustrates a significant lack of understanding. The legal status of a war resides within the legislative apparatus of the nations waging it, not in some 3rd party comprised of tyrants and corrupt 3rd world backwaters.




If only "right wingers" are pro Bush and pro-war, can you explain how he won the election? Was it slight of hand?

cheating?

Don't ask me, but you've missed my point. I've talked about the world, not about the USA.

Fair enough - but again I ask you - should we really care about the opinions of those who are not our friends? It would seem foolish to do so.




Personally, I do not consider nations who exhibit that kind of behavior to be our "friends", no matter what they'd like to pretend. We're better off without them. "Fool me once,..." as they say.

Hehe... better without us? Even more interesting as you see Bush/Rumsfeld/Rice begging for our support, our money and our troops for Iraq... but that's your war, we will not send our troops to die for US lobbyists.

It's your option to stay out. But it was entertaining to see all the weeping over being shut out of all the money to be made in the reconstruction. Seems you've forgotten about the old adage about how nobody wants to make the sausage, but everybody wants to eat it.

Let's be realistic - a few forces from more European nations would have been nice, and would be helpful but it's always the US that's left to do the majority of the heavy lifting.




You've changed, we don't want you back.

Correct we've changend, this is called evolution.
Most parts of the USA are socially still in the 19th century and the bible-nazis become more and more powerful. But hey... that's your problem. Wish you a nice life in Jesusland - the christian counterpart to Iran.

Yes, Jesusland is full of "bible-nazis". Everybody hear the voice of tolerance and inclusion from Europe? There's no wonder your governments have clamped down on your rights of free speech. Better watch out, there's an Italian author being brought up on charges for talking like that. Oh, but that's not a concern here in Jesusland, because our leaders put a little more faith in our ability to control ourselves. I'll continue to watch the unfolding disaster that is Europe, with it's dissolving economy, social structure, individual rights, and Western values - and of course the next hotspot that erupts into war. Evolution indeed.

[Roaming East]

Boy, we get this 'jesusland' crap alot from the ueros and lefties. what is the deal with that? Everytime i hear about something remotely religious based its from some leftwing guy. Last i heard the US is still the leading producer of just about any and everything having to do with top end research, technology and medicine so i guess it stands to argue wether or not our '19th century' way of doing things is better than the rest of the world either stealing our tech, buying it as fast as possible or aping the hell out of it and trying to sell it themselves.

meh... :roll:

[Roaming East]

sigh too early for this

[Erik2a4]

Boy, we get this 'jesusland' crap alot from the ueros and lefties. what is the deal with that? Everytime i hear about something remotely religious based its from some leftwing guy. Last i heard the US is still the leading producer of just about any and everything having to do with top end research, technology and medicine so i guess it stands to argue wether or not our '19th century' way of doing things is better than the rest of the world either stealing our tech, buying it as fast as possible or aping the hell out of it and trying to sell it themselves.

meh... :roll:

What's the name for that fallacy?...is it an Ad Hominem argument, IIRC? (I'm not about to waste time looking it up.)

Notice the subtle use of inflammatory and attacking words by Prometheus:

"illegal offensive war" (as opposed to a defensive war? Paradox anyone?)
"Jesusland"
"Begging for support..."
"evolution"
"christian counterpart to Iran"

Notice how in light of the lack of facts or clear argumentation, he resorts to name-calling. Touche, my good man!

I believe the best response would be in the manner of the Daily Show: ask loaded questions to elicit a connection, without the pesky use of facts or whatnot. All you have to raise is a bit of doubt.

So I ask you:

"Does Prometheus orally pleasure teamsters for drug money?

Can he prove to us here that he doesn't? :lol:

[Miles.]

Correct we've changend, this is called evolution.
Most parts of the USA are socially still in the 19th century and the bible-nazis become more and more powerful. But hey... that's your problem. Wish you a nice life in Jesusland - the christian counterpart to Iran.

That has got to be one of the most ill-informed, misguided, and disgusting things I've ever read on this site, or anywhere else. You really are ignorant. I live in this so-called "Jesusland" and I shouldn't even respond to this sickening accusation. Comparing the US to Iranian theocracy? I don't even have to refute that, reality does it for me.

The fact that there are people in Europe who believe this is disheartening.

Any "bible-nazi" in the US is either losing his teeth in his "19th-Century" hole, or losing his teeth in a Federal Pen, or executed as a terrorist (McVeigh).

You are a POS, and I hope you are offended.

[Yosy]

Prometheus mate you're over-reacting. Remember almost 50% of americans don't want Bush in the White House, including the big majority of those that were attacked on 9/11 (new yorkers). And the religious freaks are (thank God, pun somewhat intended) a minority. When the US stops making The Daily Show is when I'll start to worry.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Prometheus, you need to study up on the demographics and political statistics of the US before you jump to generalizations. The bible-Nazis exist but they are a tiny, very tiny, minority over here and they are not, by a long shot, in charge of the ruling factions.

In my opinion, the true ruling factions are more money/power/greed centered with religion being only one of many tools useful to gain votes during the elections.

Yosy, your comment is inaccurate. What would have been more applicable would have been to say. “Remember most American’s didn’t want either presidential candidate (or party primary runners for that matter) to be in the White House”