Advanced Air Burst: A First Look at the XM25

[Bluezoo]

I don't know if this was posted before, but it is an interesting read. Here goes:




ADVANCED AIR BURST: A First Look at the XM25

Hidden or hard-to-reach enemies? The XM25 Grenade Launcher provides a soldier with up to a 500 percent increase in hit probability, and is a lighter and more compact version of its XM29 predecessor. But will this Future Combat Weapon fly? Here's a first look.

http://images.military.com/pics/SoldierTech_XM25-1.jpg

Killer Features: XM25 Grenade Launcher

Name:
XM25 25mm Multiple Grenade Launcher (MGL)

Killer Features:
Increased lethality over XM29, with 25mm grenades (up from 20mm)
Stand-alone semi-automatic grenade launcher
5.56 subcarbine element
Lighter, more compact than the XM29

Will it fly?: The XM25 Grenade Launcher improves upon its cumbersome predecessor, the XM29/OICW, but its reliability remains to be seen.

By David Crane
Editor, DefenseReview.com

On April 27th (2005), Alliant Techsystems, Inc. (ATK) issued a press release on their semi-auto XM25 25mm "advanced airbursting" MGL (multiple grenade launcher) through PR Newswire. ATK calls it the XM25 "Air-Burst Assault Weapon." DefenseReview has known about the XM25 development program for a while now, but we never quite got around to writing about it. So the reader is aware, we'll be reporting on the XM25 in more detail in a future article. In the meantime, however, we're going to do a little light coverage on the XM25 in this one:

The XM25 is an offshoot of the U.S. Army/JSSAP/Picatinny Arsenal, NJ XM29/OICW. It's no secret that we here at DefRev weren't big fans of this system. The XM29/OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) combined a semi-auto 20mm grenade multiple grenade launcher (MGL) -- utilizing high-explosive timed-fuse air-burst grenades -- with an underbarrel-mounted 5.56x45mm "kinetic energy weapon" component (a short-barrelled/modified HK G36-type system).

With the XM25, ATK has increased the size of the grenades from 20mm to 25mm for increased lethality and (wisely) separated the grenade launcher element from the 5.56 subcarbine element, creating a stand-alone semi-auto 25mm multiple grenade launcher (MGL) that just might have solved all of the problems that plagued the XM29/OICW. When I first saw the behemoth that was the OICW, a number of years ago, I immediately disliked it. One of the first thoughts I had upon viewing it was that the 20mm grenade launcher should be a separate weapon. With the XM25, ATK has done just that -- AND simultaneously increased target lethality with the bump-up to 25mm. It's also possible that they've perfected the target acquisition/fire control/timed-fuse air-bursting system, so the system is now combat-reliable. We'll have to see.

Basically, the ATK XM25 looks viable, provided that the improved-lethality 25mm grenades actually prove lethal enough on the battlefield, the targeting system (a.k.a. "target acquisition/fire control system") and timed-fuse air-burst system are acccurate and reliable, the weapon proves reliable (no stoppages or jams) and robust/rugged under combat conditions, and OA weapon weight is manageable for the end-user. If so, the XM25 could fly. Defense Review will investigate, and report back to our readers.

Here's what ATK (Alliant Techsystems, Inc.) has to say about the XM25 Air-Burst Assault Weapon, on their website:

http://images.military.com/pics/SoldierTech_XM25-2.jpg
Airbursting rounds for the XM25.


"The XM25 air-burst assault weapon is a next-generation, semi-automatic weapon system designed for effectiveness against enemies protected by walls, dug into foxholes, or hidden in hard-to-reach places.

The XM25 provides the soldier with a 300 to 500% increase in hit probability to defeat point, area, and defilade targets out to 500 meters. The weapon features revolutionary high-explosive, air-burst ammunition programmed by the weapon's target acquisition/fire control system.

The XM25 integrates ballistics computation in the full-solution Target Acquisition/Fire Control (TA/FC) system. The soldier places the aim point on target and activates the laser rangefinder. The fire control system provides an adjusted aim point. The soldier places the adjusted aim point on target and pulls the trigger. Target information is communicated to the chambered 25mm round. As the round speeds down range, it measures the distance traveled and bursts precisely at the distance preprogrammed.

The XM25 precisely delivers air-bursting munitions in all conditions, including MOUT and complex terrain. It is five times more lethal at the M203 maximum range and continues to provide lethality well beyond the M203's maximum ability. The system is designed for optimum performance at 300 meters but will perform to 500 meters and beyond.

It includes five different types of ammunition:....

For the full text, please go to:
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_XM25,,00.html

[moughoun]

it look's like a super soaker :|

[Michael RVR]

Totally. For all the money that got thrown at that thing they could at least have made it look like a weapon.

;)

[PhillyMobster]

Totally. For all the money that got thrown at that thing they could at least have made it look like a weapon.

;)

if its looks stupid but it works, then it aint stupid.

I'm curious how this weapon will be accepted. I can't imagine using it as a primary firearm. It would just end up like the M79. And people will have to carry another smallarm as well. Obviously, thats a bit of a pain.

[Michael RVR]

Yeah, i know that and i've said it before too, but i think this is going too far.

I mean that said, that could just be a mockup and not a real version for all i know ;)

[Ratamacue]

Yeah, i know that and i've said it before too, but i think this is going too far.

I mean that said, that could just be a mockup and not a real version for all i know ;)
The picture looks like it's almost certainly a mock-up. Take a look at the ejection port, it looks like it's painted on.

[FallenAngel]

25mm thermobaric rounds :lol:

[RS_Leo1A5]

Take a look at the ejection port, it looks like it's painted on.
I don't think that's the ejection port. It would throw the case right into the shooter's face as long as he's not left-handed.
(And then the cocking lever would be on the wrong side of the weapon for comfortable use by a left-hander.)

[Sabre]

I'm not really sure there's much point in this.

It is meant to be more accurate, but current underslung GLs are fairly accurate with practice. The UGL is meant to be accurate to 1x2m @ 150m. I think being able to hit a person/doorway at 150m is fairly accurate.

It seems that this is just going to swap the rifle/GL combination over by having the GL as the main weapon and the carbine as the underslung element. I don't really see why.

I can't really see why you would need a magazine of GL rounds either. Personally, I'd prefer an upgraded version of current 'add-on' GLs which still allow me to have an accurate rifle. Perhaps a very lightweight add-on stock could be developed to enable UGLs to be fired more accurately as a stand-alone weapon.

[One_A]

It was demo'ed at this years NDIA Small Arms symposium. The abilities of this weapon system are impressive.

[Herrmannek]

I'm not really sure there's much point in this.

It is meant to be more accurate, but current underslung GLs are fairly accurate with practice. The UGL is meant to be accurate to 1x2m @ 150m. I think being able to hit a person/doorway at 150m is fairly accurate.

It seems that this is just going to swap the rifle/GL combination over by having the GL as the main weapon and the carbine as the underslung element. I don't really see why.

I can't really see why you would need a magazine of GL rounds either. Personally, I'd prefer an upgraded version of current 'add-on' GLs which still allow me to have an accurate rifle. Perhaps a very lightweight add-on stock could be developed to enable UGLs to be fired more accurately as a stand-alone weapon.
OICW is meant to be able engaging targets acurately(first shot acuracy) at 1km range..its fair beyond underbarel grenades abilities...

[Ratamacue]

Take a look at the ejection port, it looks like it's painted on.
I don't think that's the ejection port. It would throw the case right into the shooter's face as long as he's not left-handed.
(And then the cocking lever would be on the wrong side of the weapon for comfortable use by a left-hander.)
I'm pretty sure the weapon is meant to be ambidextrous.

[Michael RVR]

Take a look at the ejection port, it looks like it's painted on.
I don't think that's the ejection port. It would throw the case right into the shooter's face as long as he's not left-handed.
(And then the cocking lever would be on the wrong side of the weapon for comfortable use by a left-hander.)
I'm pretty sure the weapon is meant to be ambidextrous.

Possibly in the same way as the Styer AUG is ? Change of bolt and ejection port cover. The round has to come out somewhere ;)

[D.E. Watters]

The XM25 picture shown above is a mock-up. And yes, that is intended to depict a left side ejection port. The weapon, even in the earlier XM29 configuration, was meant for ambidextrous use.

This is a fairly recent photo of a XM25 firing prototype:

http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/armm/images/xm25-2005.jpg

[Michael RVR]

The XM25 picture shown above is a mock-up. And yes, that is intended to depict a left side ejection port. The weapon, even in the earlier XM29 configuration, was meant for ambidextrous use.

This is a fairly recent photo of a XM25 firing prototype:

http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/armm/images/xm25-2005.jpg

Thanks mate, its a big ****er eh?

[GazB]

Of course the Russians and Soviets have had airburst 40mm rounds for quite some time. No laser rangefinders, ballistic computers, and highly accurate time fuses though... just a small bounding charge to blow the round up into the air where the main charge showers the area with fragments. No flash or high tech, but effective and in service for quite a number of years.

Regarding this weapon I think adding a self defence component would be a great improvement. But adding an assault rifle to it might make it too heavy. What do you guys think of adding the equivelent of a P-90 PDW SMG to this weapon. Good close range firepower that gives some defence capability but no so heavy as to cut into ready to use rounds.

BTW as the 30mm Plamya shows for projected grenades it is the side walls that make the fragments so longer smaller calibre rounds can be just as effective as larger calibre rounds that have short grenade bodies.

[Sabre]

I'm not really sure there's much point in this.

It is meant to be more accurate, but current underslung GLs are fairly accurate with practice. The UGL is meant to be accurate to 1x2m @ 150m. I think being able to hit a person/doorway at 150m is fairly accurate.

It seems that this is just going to swap the rifle/GL combination over by having the GL as the main weapon and the carbine as the underslung element. I don't really see why.

I can't really see why you would need a magazine of GL rounds either. Personally, I'd prefer an upgraded version of current 'add-on' GLs which still allow me to have an accurate rifle. Perhaps a very lightweight add-on stock could be developed to enable UGLs to be fired more accurately as a stand-alone weapon.
OICW is meant to be able engaging targets acurately(first shot acuracy) at 1km range..its fair beyond underbarel grenades abilities...

Hmmm. I'm still not convinced. I don't doubt that the capability for such accuracy is possible, but is it really needed? Does the bloke on the ground really need to accurately place a grenade 1 km away? That surely comes under the realm of other weapon systems currently available. Why would one need to engage an enemy so far away with such a small round?

Most engagements where small arms are effective occur under 300m. I would argue that small arms aren't really effective beyond 200m in a combat sense. UGLs are incredibly useful in terms of providing fire support at section/patrol level, but it is unlikely that they would be having a contact out to 1 km. At that range, other assets could be called upon to be certain of destroying the enemy. If I was a company commander, I wouldn't be that happy sending a platoon into a position that had been 'neutralised' from 1 km away with 25mm grenades.

I think this is stepping on the toes of fire support assets already available. Besides, how often would you need to destroy a point target at 1 km as a grunt? I think the cost/effectiveness of this weapon system is a tad unbalanced. In today's war, it would be much cheaper to simply ask for your AIFV to paste the target with some 30mm HE. Failing that, call for mortars, or use the old 51mm/60mm light mortars instead. Alternativley, get a bit closer and use the old 66mm or a current UGL.

I wouldn't be happy carrying one of these, no matter how accurate/smart it was. There's only so much 25mm ammunition you can carry, and only so many situations you'd use it. After that, you'd be wanting a decent assault rifle.

[D.E. Watters]

Of course the Russians and Soviets have had airburst 40mm rounds for quite some time. No laser rangefinders, ballistic computers, and highly accurate time fuses though... just a small bounding charge to blow the round up into the air where the main charge showers the area with fragments. No flash or high tech, but effective and in service for quite a number of years.

FWIW: The US played with a bounding 40x46mm grenade during Vietnam: the M397/M397A1.

[Flagg]

I, for one, would not be keen to hump that pig around...especially since it's "the boss's" weapon and not mine.

Isn't it possible, as mentioned, to upgrade an underslung GL?

I'm thinking a simple laser rangefinder........integrated with the launcher and it's single loaded round that will airburst at the designated distance.

Or even "dial a distance" to manually dial the airburst distance.

Whereas an LSW gunner can get away with carrying a sidearm as a secondary weapon, as his section weapon system can engage targets as close proximity, I don't think the soldier carrying a section grenade launcher like the proposed item could get away with just a sidearm as a secondary weapon.

I also don't think it would be fun to integrate it with a rifle or pdw round.....it already looks to be too "fun"(ie heavy) to carry as is.

I'm sure it would be fun to shoot....but carrying it certainly wouldn't.....and it could feel quite naked without close range self-defense.......I assume an assistant grenadier in the way of a junior rifleman would act as grenade donkey and bodyguard.

In my semi-amateur opinion...I think having a GL that can hit out to 5-600 metres accurately would be pretty snazzy(as well as service rifle rounds in a DM system hitting with VERY high accuracy to the same range) organic to the platoon level.....or at section level if the mission requires it.

[Ratamacue]

The weapon system has its advantages (being able to fire a grenade straight through a window and have it explode a meter or two inside the room is pretty nifty), but they need to downsize it before it'll be practical. I wouldn't count on seeing the XM25/29 or any similar system being issued before 2015. When they can lower it to the weight of an M16/203, then I could see it being practical.

[GazB]

I also don't think it would be fun to integrate it with a rifle or pdw round.....it already looks to be too "fun"(ie heavy) to carry as is.

I agree in theory, but having a guy carry a grenade launcher that has nothing other than a pistol for self defence in a unit sounds like a problem to me. If they could build in a SMG like the P-90 but adding less weight to the weapon than carrying an actual P-90 in addition to the weapon I think that is a viable option. Especially if you treat it like a GPMG and have other guys in the unit carrying ammo for the grenade launcher too.

I remember reading that in desert storm more 40mm grenades were fired than 7.62mm ammo. This was largely from automatic grenade launchers being considered more effective against hidden area targets at 800m-1.2km range for supporting units. Explosive grenades are just as effective at 100m as 1 km as they rely for their effect on their payload, which is not effected by range... unlike a bullet projectile.

[Michael RVR]

So what is the actual weight on that thing ?

I'm trying to think of a situation that would require 7 rapid-fire rounds of HE to be going downrange, where you wouldn't be able to use the 40mm.

I like the idea of the 'dial a round', like we've got for the 84, but like the 84 i dont think they'd be as successful unless you've either got : a. soldiers who can accurately guess distance or b: a laser rangefinder.

;)

[Ratamacue]

I like the idea of the 'dial a round', like we've got for the 84, but like the 84 i dont think they'd be as successful unless you've either got : a. soldiers who can accurately guess distance or b: a laser rangefinder.
...and this is why they've put a laser rangefinder in the computer. ;)