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BlackRain
05-27-2005, 03:07 PM
French troops in Ivorian *** row

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39388000/jpg/_39388114_bouake_afp_203_body.jpg
French-Ivorian relations have been strained

Four French peacekeepers are being investigated over accusations of ****** abuse against a girl in Ivory Coast.


The Licorne statement said the army had ordered its police division to investigate the allegations of abuse and prepare for a judicial inquiry. The armed forces tribunal in Paris had also been informed of the case, the statement said.

The French army said it received a complaint that the four abused the girl at Madinani village, in northern Ivory Coast, earlier this month.

Neither the girl's age or identity, nor the soldiers' names, were disclosed.

Some 4,000 French soldiers are serving alongside 6,000 UN troops in the former French colony, which has been divided by a two-and-a-half year rebellion.

The French said there was as yet no evidence to confirm the allegations.

Strained relations

"We will treat this affair with the greatest seriousness if the facts are established," army spokesman Colonel Henry Aussavy told ******* news agency.


In Ivory Coast, Licorne's image was tarnished last year after 12 French soldiers were arrested for stealing $120,000 from a bank they were supposed to be guarding in a rebel town.

It is the first allegation of its type against French soldiers in Ivory Coast. UN peacekeepers have recently been accused of *** crimes in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Relations have been strained between the French and Ivory Coast governments since peacekeepers were sent in to patrol a buffer zone dividing government and rebel territory.

Some supporters of the Ivorian government have accused French forces of siding with the rebel forces based in the north.

Tensions came to a head last November, when nine French soldiers were killed in a government bombing raid.

The French retaliated by destroying most of Ivory Coast's air force.

Ivory Coast, once a paragon of stability and prosperity in West Africa, has been crippled by the rebellion that erupted in 2002.

A recent South African-backed peace deal, and the prospect of elections in October, has raised hopes of an end to the conflict.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4565959.stm

abncougar
05-27-2005, 03:30 PM
i saw "***" in the title so i had to investigate.................... :roll:

Midav
05-27-2005, 03:33 PM
Have your bad apples in any military...

Bluezoo
05-27-2005, 03:37 PM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(

Jani.R
05-27-2005, 03:49 PM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(

At least i haven't heard them shoot unarmed men and get away from it.


" :roll: "

Avary
05-27-2005, 03:54 PM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(

At least i haven't heard them shoot unarmed men and get away from it.


" :roll: "
You haven't seen the video fo the French machine-gunning an unarmed crowd in front of the Hotel Ivoire?

BlackRain
05-27-2005, 04:08 PM
You haven't seen the video fo the French machine-gunning an unarmed crowd in front of the Hotel Ivoire?

I have heard it mentioned that the Gazelle performed very well in it's mission in Ivory Coast -- 20mm GIAT's versus civilians.

M1A2U2
05-27-2005, 04:12 PM
You haven't seen the video fo the French machine-gunning an unarmed crowd in front of the Hotel Ivoire?

I have heard it mentioned that the Gazelle performed very well in it's mission in Ivory Coast -- 20mm GIAT's versus civilians.

cmon we all know the french only use their military for peaceful purposes.
The US are the real murderers here.
rofl
please make some left flank comments everyone will think youre intelligent.

BlackRain
05-27-2005, 04:14 PM
ABIDJAN (*******) - Around 50 people have been killed by French troops in Ivory Coast during three days of violence which exploded after France wiped out most of the country's military aircraft, an Ivorian minister says.

"We have counted around 50 people dead, all of them were demonstrators shot by the French," National Reconciliation Minister Sebastien Dano told ******* on Tuesday, adding the death toll was for both the main city Abidjan and other towns.
........

Dano, a member of President Laurent Gbagbo's Ivorian Popular Front, said the demonstrators were shot by French helicopters and tanks and by troops with rifles.

"The French intervened in a disproportionate way. They destroyed the republic's property, they killed and wounded. We don't understand this violence," he said.

"It is France which is attacking and humiliating us."

Inconnu
05-27-2005, 04:47 PM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:



More professional than you in any case...

Inconnu
05-27-2005, 04:50 PM
You haven't seen the video fo the French machine-gunning an unarmed crowd in front of the Hotel Ivoire?

I have heard it mentioned that the Gazelle performed very well in it's mission in Ivory Coast -- 20mm GIAT's versus civilians.

good stuff :lol:

http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/eurolinks/eurolinks3s.jpg

Moledet
05-27-2005, 06:06 PM
Heh, WTF? Did they shave their asses? (referring to the pictures above)

Jani.R
05-27-2005, 06:53 PM
Heh, WTF? Did they shave their asses? (referring to the pictures above)

They look blurred to me.

ronin2172
05-27-2005, 07:07 PM
All this thread proves is that idiots exist on both sides of the Atlantic..... :roll:

callous
05-27-2005, 07:09 PM
Those 'torture' :roll: pics are sooo much worse then raping and murdering civilians.

morlick
05-27-2005, 07:15 PM
All this thread proves is that idiots exist on both sides of the Atlantic..... :roll:

right

BlackRain
05-27-2005, 07:20 PM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(
another example of "professionalism":


Yeah, but what is the difference between the two countries when their troops act unprofessional?

The US troops go to prison and are punished for their deeds.

AND

The French troops go home without any justice for their victims.


Eight other cases stemming from charges related to allegations of prisoner mistreatment at Abu Ghraib included those of:

—Spec. Megan Ambuhl: She previously pleaded guilty at summary court-martial; was reduced in rank and was separated from the Army with other than honorable (OTH) discharge.

—Spec. Armin Cruz: He previously pleaded guilty at a special court-martial empowered to adjudge a bad conduct discharge; was sentenced to 8 months, and given a bad conduct discharge.

—Staff Sgt. Ivan L. Frederick, II: He previously pleaded guilty at a general court-martial ;was sentenced to 8 years and given a dishonorable discharge.

—Spec. Charles A. Graner, Jr.: He pleaded not guilty at a general court-martial at Fort Hood recently. He was found guilty of all charges and sentenced to 10 years and given a dishonorable discharge.

—Spec. Jeremy Sivits: He previously pleaded guilty at special court-martial empowered to adjudge a bad conduct discharge; was sentenced to one year, and was given bad conduct discharge.

—Sgt. Javal S. Davis: He previously pleaded guilty at a general court-martial; was sentenced to six months, and given a bad conduct discharge.

—Spec. Roman Krol: He previously pleaded guilty at special court-martial empowered to adjudge a bad conduct discharge; was sentenced to ten months, and given a bad conduct discharge.

—Spec. Sabrina Harman: previously pleaded not guilty at a general court-martial. Her trial is scheduled to begin May 11.

Pfc. Lynndie England could be sentenced to a maximum of 16½ years confinement, dishonorable discharge, reduction in rank to private (E-1), and total forfeiture of all pay and allowances.

Sorry, can find any news reports about French troops receiving punishment for abuses.

Inconnu
05-27-2005, 07:50 PM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(
another example of "professionalism":


Yeah, but what is the difference between the two countries when their troops act unprofessional?

The US troops go to prison and are punished for their deeds.

AND

The French troops go home without any justice for their victims.


Eight other cases stemming from charges related to allegations of prisoner mistreatment at Abu Ghraib included those of:

—Spec. Megan Ambuhl: She previously pleaded guilty at summary court-martial; was reduced in rank and was separated from the Army with other than honorable (OTH) discharge.

—Spec. Armin Cruz: He previously pleaded guilty at a special court-martial empowered to adjudge a bad conduct discharge; was sentenced to 8 months, and given a bad conduct discharge.

—Staff Sgt. Ivan L. Frederick, II: He previously pleaded guilty at a general court-martial ;was sentenced to 8 years and given a dishonorable discharge.

—Spec. Charles A. Graner, Jr.: He pleaded not guilty at a general court-martial at Fort Hood recently. He was found guilty of all charges and sentenced to 10 years and given a dishonorable discharge.

—Spec. Jeremy Sivits: He previously pleaded guilty at special court-martial empowered to adjudge a bad conduct discharge; was sentenced to one year, and was given bad conduct discharge.

—Sgt. Javal S. Davis: He previously pleaded guilty at a general court-martial; was sentenced to six months, and given a bad conduct discharge.

—Spec. Roman Krol: He previously pleaded guilty at special court-martial empowered to adjudge a bad conduct discharge; was sentenced to ten months, and given a bad conduct discharge.

—Spec. Sabrina Harman: previously pleaded not guilty at a general court-martial. Her trial is scheduled to begin May 11.

Pfc. Lynndie England could be sentenced to a maximum of 16½ years confinement, dishonorable discharge, reduction in rank to private (E-1), and total forfeiture of all pay and allowances.

Sorry, can find any news reports about French troops receiving punishment for abuses.
I see that this news is it that in only one newspaper...

BlackRain
05-27-2005, 08:08 PM
I see that this news is it that in only one newspaper...

?? Sorry, what do you mean. These trials have been widely covered in the US press and by the likes of CNN, MSN, FOX News, PBS, etc.

Are you saying your press has not mentioned that these US troops were punished?

roland
05-27-2005, 08:26 PM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(
another example of "professionalism":


Yeah, but what is the difference between the two countries when their troops act unprofessional?

The US troops go to prison and are punished for their deeds.

AND

The French troops go home without any justice for their victims.


This one just prove you're an idiot BlackRain. The lack of professionalism is NOT those torture, it is the fact that those pictures went out of the prison. See the difference ? so who is more professional and discreet now ?

ah and I don't know the details of the story, about those french soldiers and the little girls, but:
- not proven yet,
- some African girls, at 14, are like women, they look easily like 18,
- that could also be a trap, a blackmail for money
so better STFU for now.

jedisponge
05-27-2005, 08:55 PM
- some African girls, at 14, are like women, they look easily like 18,
- that could also be a trap, a blackmail for money
so better STFU for now.

Oh man.

Again, I still don't understand why some people say it's unproven so it's not true, yet they're so quick to do the exact opposite when it's the U.S.

Eitherway, it's still only an accusation and unproven, and this thread is just another of the growing amount of threads for throwing around insults at country "x" and everyone that lives in country "x".

BlackRain
05-27-2005, 09:00 PM
This one just prove you're an idiot BlackRain. The lack of professionalism is NOT those torture, it is the fact that those pictures went out of the prison. See the difference ? so who is more professional and discreet now ?

ah and I don't know the details of the story, about those french soldiers and the little girls, but:
- not proven yet,
- some African girls, at 14, are like women, they look easily like 18,
- that could also be a trap, a blackmail for money
so better STFU for now.

You are a funny man.

Professionalism means not letting illegal abuse of prisoners to leak out?

1Cie GevGn
05-27-2005, 09:01 PM
You haven't seen the video fo the French machine-gunning an unarmed crowd in front of the Hotel Ivoire?

I have heard it mentioned that the Gazelle performed very well in it's mission in Ivory Coast -- 20mm GIAT's versus civilians.

cmon we all know the french only use their military for peaceful purposes.
The US are the real murderers here.
rofl
please make some left flank comments everyone will think youre intelligent.

You try to call someone stupid by bringing up the fact that you're a posing piece of ****? Nice going smartass.

roland
05-27-2005, 09:02 PM
Professionalism means not letting illegal abuse of prisoners to leak out?

Exactly. You want to win a way or a prize of morality ?

Supe
05-28-2005, 12:55 AM
er what is the point of this thread? What is it in particular that is worthy of discussion. The opening post has a cut and paste and no opinion put forth by thread starter.

Can the thread starter provide an opinion or narrative?

Javehn
05-28-2005, 01:18 AM
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/2/2404/640/Funny%20-%20France%20Gun.jpg
:lol:

http://www.martinworks.com/hero/frterralert.jpg
:oops:

Javehn
05-28-2005, 01:51 AM
Wasn't there several month ago a story of French UN workers who abbused little girl in Congo ? Oh la la :|

EsoognomEhT
05-28-2005, 01:54 AM
I wouldnt take it too seriously, there was a similar case with our guys, about 800 rapes reported...

Bluezoo
05-28-2005, 02:55 AM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(
another example of "professionalism":


Yeah, but what is the difference between the two countries when their troops act unprofessional?

The US troops go to prison and are punished for their deeds.

AND

The French troops go home without any justice for their victims.


This one just prove you're an idiot BlackRain. The lack of professionalism is NOT those torture, it is the fact that those pictures went out of the prison. See the difference ? so who is more professional and discreet now ?

ah and I don't know the details of the story, about those french soldiers and the little girls, but:
- not proven yet,
- some African girls, at 14, are like women, they look easily like 18,
- that could also be a trap, a blackmail for money
so better STFU for now.

Ah, the Americans are unprofessional because they were not discreet? Damn, do you have a broomstick stuck in your ****? I hate it when you preach as if you have the moral ascendancy to do so, when the facts are staring you in front of your screen!

You wrote:

This one just prove you're an idiot BlackRain. The lack of professionalism is NOT those torture, it is the fact that those pictures went out of the prison. See the difference ? so who is more professional and discreet now ?

It is obvious that your concept of professionalism is conducting successful tortures and getting away with them with impunity!

I found the Abu Ghraib scandal repulsive and I hope the soldiers implicated in this scandal, whether they acted as principals, accomplices or accessories, get convicted and are accorded with the proper penalties provided by law. At least they are on trial! At least justice is within reach or a possibility!


What about your soldiers? The last time I checked, the bunch of trigger happy “professionals” shot their way out at the expense of unarmed civilians in that country. The "professionals" were even commended and promoted!

Oh, what about ALGERIA? You government to this date, have denied their complicity nor even apologized for their torture, etc. in Algeria.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47871&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=algeria&start=0

And those who tried to repost the truth were even silenced, because your commander in chief, Chirac himself was in Algeria doing unspeakable things in the name of France!

What did he say in the name of hypocricy? :lol:

"I'll never do anything to harm the memory or the honour of the men who fought for France," he told a recent interviewer. "In these sorts of events, the best thing is to stand back and let history do its work."....

.....The official French history of the Algerian war did speak of torture, but only that carried out by the Algerian side. The French journalists who wrote about the electrodes and the Nazi-style water tortures used by their compatriots faced death threats.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1108014.stm

Oh, on being discreet? There are no digital pictures then, but if you know anything about the rules on evidence, :roll: there is nothing discreet about the testimonies of survivors who possitively identify their French professional tormentors. One of them is...


Rachid Ferrahi, which testified in the World in June 2001, maintains that his/her father was tortured, *****, in front of him, to the Sarouy school and is said "scandalized" by denials of the Schmitt General. "Schmitt directed the interrogations. It enjoyed when one of us was humiliated. It thus made dance, *****, one of the heads of resistance. This man had already completely emptied his tripe. Whereas it had very unpacked, Schmitt had fun to shout to him: "Dance! Dance!" And the other, broken, had to obey." ...........
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=827193&highlight=algeria#827193

Mind you, Schmitt is/was a French "professional".

You wrote:


ah and I don't know the details of the story, about those french soldiers and the little girls....

Then you STFU and read Blackrain's article or start posting other news sources to the contrary instead of whining!


- not proven yet,
- some African girls, at 14, are like women, they look easily like 18,
- that could also be a trap, a blackmail for money
so better STFU for now

Is this based on your professional self-serving opinion short of saying that this article is another "lie"? :lol:

Bluezoo
05-28-2005, 02:58 AM
You haven't seen the video fo the French machine-gunning an unarmed crowd in front of the Hotel Ivoire?

I have heard it mentioned that the Gazelle performed very well in it's mission in Ivory Coast -- 20mm GIAT's versus civilians.

good stuff :lol:

http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/eurolinks/eurolinks3s.jpg

You can’t seem to get Blackrain’s sarcasm , huh? What’s the "good stuff"mowing civilians? Because they can’t shoot back? Haven’t you heard about tear gas?!

Skittish soldiers who pee in their pants are so trigger happy partricularly when under siege or in order to secure their successful retreat. They are indeed "professionals". p-)

Kilgor
05-28-2005, 03:36 AM
I bet any army with the number of troops and deployments with the same as the US would be involved in a similar number of "abuses"

M1A2U2
05-28-2005, 04:01 AM
Then you STFU and read Blackrain's article or start posting other news sources to the contrary instead of whining!

OWNED

COMPARING ABU GRAIB TO THE MURDER OF UNARMED CIVILIANS MAKES ME LAUGH.

Jani.R
05-28-2005, 05:08 AM
Then you STFU and read Blackrain's article or start posting other news sources to the contrary instead of whining!

OWNED

COMPARING ABU GRAIB TO THE MURDER OF UNARMED CIVILIANS MAKES ME LAUGH.


Is this the profesional way?

Karzai 'shocked' by abuse report (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/21/afghanistan.abuse.reut/index.html)
Army: Soldiers did mock executions (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/detainee.abuse/index.html)
U.S.: Colombia to question accused U.S. soldiers (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/05/06/colombia.us.soldiers.ap/index.html)
Soldier lifts lid on Guantanamo 'abuse' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4523825.stm)
US troops 'made Iraq abuse video' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4328615.stm)
US soldier charged with assault (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3621056.stm)

--

Timeline: Ivory Coast (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/country_profiles/1043106.stm)

Claiming that they shot unarmed "civilians" is just an bull****.

LaPalice
05-28-2005, 06:00 AM
Another time I don’t see where is the problem. It is possible that four soldiers made a crime, a rape. Sadly those kind of things happen everywhere. Then the French authorities are making an inquiry to know what happened and if the soldiers are guilty.
The problem would have been if there wasn’t any inquiry.

LaPalice.

Moledet
05-28-2005, 06:27 AM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(
another example of "professionalism":


Yeah, but what is the difference between the two countries when their troops act unprofessional?

The US troops go to prison and are punished for their deeds.

AND

The French troops go home without any justice for their victims.


This one just prove you're an idiot BlackRain. The lack of professionalism is NOT those torture, it is the fact that those pictures went out of the prison. See the difference ? so who is more professional and discreet now ?

ah and I don't know the details of the story, about those french soldiers and the little girls, but:
- not proven yet,
- some African girls, at 14, are like women, they look easily like 18,
- that could also be a trap, a blackmail for money
so better STFU for now.
I had no clue that it's ok to rape and torture women that are over 18.
Anyway, you are right about the rest, unproven yet.

raid
05-28-2005, 06:32 AM
The US troops go to prison and are punished for their deeds.

AND

The French troops go home without any justice for their victims.



Where does it say they won't be punished? It's under investigation, even you can get that, right?

What does this thread teach us? That there's bad apple in armies? Always has, always will... As long as it is known to the public and that perps are punished, there's not much more that can be done. An army with 100% law abiding, honnest soldiers is a wishful thinking.Same goes for any working class...

Now, blackrain, man, you got some real issues... Seriously, you've been raped by a french teacher when you were younger or what?
You do realise that you must be spending more time looking up in the news for anything remotly french related than most french people?
I'm wondering what a shrink would say... maybe you're a non self admitting wannabe french? :lol:

Digital Marine
05-28-2005, 07:31 AM
rofl

France is getting bashed and the eurowussies suddenly posts pics of Abu Ghraib... this is getting sooo pathetic rofl

toki
05-28-2005, 07:58 AM
Now, blackrain, man, you got some real issues... Seriously, you've been raped by a french teacher when you were younger or what?
You do realise that you must be spending more time looking up in the news for anything remotly french related than most french people?
I'm wondering what a shrink would say... maybe you're a non self admitting wannabe french? :lol:

No. He has another hobby, too. Looking for news about germany... ;)
Same thing. Pick up something bad, that happened somewhere and pointing our finger at a whole nation. It's really getting boring. I stopped taking those threads serious.

roland
05-28-2005, 08:35 AM
I had no clue that it's ok to rape and torture women that are over 18.
Anyway, you are right about the rest, unproven yet.

ok, I admit I don't read all the BR article since a long time.
To be confirmed yet, we all agree.
Right or wrong it doesn't need to go to journalists hears. Like we say: lets wash our dirty laundry inside the family.
That is important to stay discreet because things like that are almost unavoidable but like BR, the population don't understand that and can react emotionally in face of such news.

BlackRain
05-28-2005, 09:19 AM
Claiming that they shot unarmed "civilians" is just an bull****.

We really don't have to 'claim' that French troops shot and killed unarmed civilians in Ivory Coast.

The French military commander there admitted it and there is videotape/stil photographs of the attacks near Hotel Ivoire and elsewhere.

It's very interesting though that the situation was judged to be so dangerous by the French troops that it required them to fire into civilian crowds. Yet not a single French civilian ex-patriot living in Ivory Coast was killed by these dangerous mobs of Ivory Coast civilians.

France admits Ivory Coast deaths
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4057769.stm

Swiss TV Report on Video of French Gazelles Firing into Civilian Crowds
http://real.xobix.ch/ramgen/tsr/tj/2004/tj_11302004-160k.rm?start=00:22:22.917&end=00:22:46.417

raid
05-28-2005, 09:38 AM
let's see.....
Maybe because they clearly demonstrated they would defend the expatriates?
Ever heard of kolwezy?

Bluezoo
05-28-2005, 10:11 AM
I had no clue that it's ok to rape and torture women that are over 18.
Anyway, you are right about the rest, unproven yet.

ok, I admit I don't read all the BR article since a long time.
To be confirmed yet, we all agree.
Right or wrong it doesn't need to go to journalists hears. Like we say: lets wash our dirty laundry inside the family.
That is important to stay discreet because things like that are almost unavoidable but like BR, the population don't understand that and can react emotionally in face of such news.

Congratulations! One, feedom of the press is a sad reality and by what you wrote, you are in favor of deception or supressing things. Now I understand. If you did not succeed in muzzling the press, you brand their report as "lies". Oh, please go with this knid of attitude because you are the number one promoter for obstructing justice! I just hope that the DA gets you one way or the other. p-)

Now you judge the entire population of not being able to understand these scandals. Damn! They have a right to know! Two, you underestimate them too much. Who are you to say waht they ought to see and not to see? Three, let the ax fall were it needs to fall. Your soldiers were caught. Washing the dirty laundry inside the family? rofl Oh goodness, have you read the whitewash or bleached denials on Algeria. That laundry took 50 years of denial. :cantbeli:

fantassin
05-28-2005, 11:07 AM
Nothing new; French troops have been systematically accused of the same things for decades. Somalia, Chad, CAR...without much in the form of proof ever coming out ot those accusations.

The last case I heard of was in the Central African Republic, in Bangui, the capital; a local women who had been denied a job at the French base there tried that as a way of obtaining compensation because she thought the army would pay to shut her up.

When I was in Kosovo, when we cracked down on marijuana dealers, we were accused of "harassing the youth" !!

But "A" for effort to BR and bluezob for their desperate efforts at rekindling French-bashing when all the signs from the US Gvt show it's a thing of the past.....

Javehn
05-28-2005, 11:33 AM
When I was in Kosovo, when we cracked down on marijuana dealers, we were accused of "harassing the youth" !!

Come clean , mate ,tell us the truth .
How much of it you actually smoked after ? ;)

BlackRain
05-28-2005, 12:14 PM
Where does it say they won't be punished? It's under investigation, even you can get that, right?

How many French Troops were arrested or punished for their actions in Ivory Coast? How about the 12 French troops who robbed a Ivory Coast bank?

What does this thread teach us? That there's bad apple in armies? Always has, always will... As long as it is known to the public and that perps are punished, there's not much more that can be done. An army with 100% law abiding, honnest soldiers is a wishful thinking.Same goes for any working class...

Yes, there are and will be bad apples in any military. However, the French morally superior attitude believes only the US troops should be punished though.

Now, blackrain, man, you got some real issues... Seriously, you've been raped by a french teacher when you were younger or what?
You do realise that you must be spending more time looking up in the news for anything remotly french related than most french people?
I'm wondering what a shrink would say... maybe you're a non self admitting wannabe french? :lol:

I have nothing against French people at all. In fact, 10 minutes ago, I was with a French physician. I have a problem with French hypocrisy.

Resevoir Hogs
05-28-2005, 12:20 PM
Sick, just sick.

Bluezoo
05-28-2005, 12:22 PM
Nothing new; French troops have been systematically accused of the same things for decades. Somalia, Chad, CAR...without much in the form of proof ever coming out ot those accusations.

The last case I heard of was in the Central African Republic, in Bangui, the capital; a local women who had been denied a job at the French base there tried that as a way of obtaining compensation because she thought the army would pay to shut her up.

When I was in Kosovo, when we cracked down on marijuana dealers, we were accused of "harassing the youth" !!

But "A" for effort to BR and bluezob for their desperate efforts at rekindling French-bashing when all the signs from the US Gvt show it's a thing of the past.....

It is French bashing when the Algeria comes about or when your troops demonstrate their prowess in shooting unarmed civilians or raping women, etc. It is lie when your troops failed to shoot the germans which led them to over run Paris because the Germans were armed to the teeth and your professionals were stuck protecting the "left" flank? rofl

Indeed , the French are "professional" enough so much so they can't stand up and face up to these events. Let me see, do you expect things to move forward when it has been 50 years and the troops who participated in the tortures in Algeria were not even put to justice, except perhaps, a token effeort to merely to ***** a general of his honors. At the rate things are going, the offspring of these ******** assaulted females will get to see their grandchildren without seeing justice in sight.

Fantassia :lol: , go remove the blinders off your eyes and sing another tune. The truth hurts. :lol:

Bluezoo
05-28-2005, 12:42 PM
There are some who claim that the French are more professional soldiers than this and that country etc. etc. :roll:

What a joke. :(

another example of "professionalism":



x2

X3
Owned.

http://www.enigmabooks.com/casbah.htm
http://www.enigmabooks.com/images/CasbahCover.jpg

http://www.enigmabooks.com/images/General.jpg
The "professional" General Paul Aussaresses


“A disturbing and sensational memoir!”

–The Wall Street Journal, October 17, 2001

“Yacef Saadi, a top figure in the independence movement, knew General Aussaresses ‘indirectly,’ Mr. Saadi recalled in a May interview at his seaside villa on the outskirts of Algiers. ‘Torture was institutionalized,’ said Mr. Saadi, and General Aussaresses ‘was a specialist in inventing things for torture.’”

–International Herald Tribune, June 19, 2001

“Once you have seen with your own eyes as I did, civilians, men, women, and children quartered, disemboweled and nailed to doors [by the rebels], you are changed for life. What feelings can anyone have towards those who perpetrated such barbaric acts and their accomplices?”

–General Paul Aussaresses, quoted in Le Monde, May 4, 2001

No French army officer had ever spoken up in such detail on the subject of torture during the bloody 8-year conflict (1954-1962) that led to Algeria ’s independence until this book.

General Paul Aussaresses decided to break the silence and reveal the bitter truth of the war on terrorism as the French army fought it in the late 1950s. while many, including François Mitterand, who was the interior and, later, justice, minister (and future president of France), knew and approved of torture and summary executions in Algeria between 1954 and 1962, the extent of the French government’s involvement and that of its official representatives on the spot in Algiers was unknown until now.

General Paul Aussaresses, 83, author of THE BATTLE OF THE CASBAH, was a career French army intelligence officer with an excellent military record during World War II, at the time he joined the Free French forces in North Africa. In 1947, Aussaresses was given command of a tough commando unit known as the 11th Shock Battalion, which was part of French intelligence, the SDECE.

After a short tour of duty in what was then a peaceful Algeria, Aussaresses and his 11th Shock were transferred to Hanoi, then the capital of French Indochina, where he fought the Viet Minh insurgency from 1949 to 1951. Back in France by 1953, the troubles had started in Morocco and a major rebellion was clearly in the making in Algeria. Aussaresses was dispatched to eastern Algeria, where in 1955 he and his unit fought the rebels of the FLN (Front de Libération Nationale) in the port city of Philippeville in a bloody battle that raged for several days.

In late 1956 Aussaresses was ordered by General Massu, the head of the French army in Algiers, to set up a counterterrorist unit to stop terrorist activity in the city of Algiers. This constitutes the main part of this book. It details the methods, including torture and execution, and the results obtained by the paratrooper commando units led by Major Aussaresses. In mid-1957 he returned to France and was no longer involved in the Algerian war. He retired after having served as a training officer of U.S. Special Forces at Fort Bragg in 1966.

“The last time France was officially at war with what it described as Muslim terrorists, Paul Aussaresses was an intelligence officer on the front lines. Whenever suspects were caught, he had a simple method of dealing with them: torture and summary execution. That was at the height of the brutal eight-year war France fought in Algeria before it pulled out in 1962, giving the North African nation its independence. . . . Gen. Aussaresses’ revelations . . . have caused a sensation in France. The book, on the bestseller list for months, is propelling a wave of disclosures that are confronting the French with the truth about their actions in Algeria. This is more than just an overdue and shocking history lesson. France’s relations with Algeria and with its own Algerian-born population have been fraught by the legacy of the 1954-62 war, in which as many as one million people died.”

--The Wall Street Journal

October 17, 2001

Robert L. Miller, publisher of Enigma Books, said of THE BATTLE OF THE CASBAH:

“The dark reality of the war in Algeria rushes back to haunt all those who lived through those harrowing years as one reads these distressing pages. Today we Americans are faced with the horror of terrorism. For us, as well as for France’s younger generation, who have no personal memory of these terrible events, the incredibly bloody strain of terror and the responses to terror are a shocking and terrifying experience. The Algerian people are still not free from the fear of violence to this day. This book must be seen as a frighteningly relevant warning from history.”

I will not post the pictures on Algeria because they are a lot worse than those playgirl pictures you posted.

Stick to Balckrain's issues and don't hijack it with your ABG piictures because France has a sterling performance when it comes to being self righteous. p-)

3x? You are
pawnd

thibaud
05-28-2005, 01:01 PM
http://rfi.fr/images/064/agent_orange220.jpg


http://www.hatfieldgroup.com/files/Agent_Orange_Lawsuit.pdf

Zarathustra
05-28-2005, 01:39 PM
:roll:

thibaud
05-28-2005, 01:49 PM
:roll:


To: The U.S. President and others

AGENT ORANGE, THE CHEMICAL, has killed, is still killing, and causing great suffering to over three million people in Vietnam.

PLEASE HELP THEM BY SIGNING THIS PETITION.

We welcome and support the Civil Action brought by the Vietnam Association of Victims of Agent Orange/Dioxin, and three Vietnamese victims. The documents have been submitted to a court in New York, on behalf of all affected by the chemicals used by the American Forces in their War on Vietnam.

This will be the first ever such action by Vietnamese victims of Agent Orange in any court of law.

We call upon the U.S. President, Government and the Chemical Companies named as defendants in the documents, to accept their responsibilities for the damage caused by their actions and products, and to pay full compensation to the victims.

Sincerely,

http://www.petitiononline.com/AOVN/

Seiyuuki
05-28-2005, 02:06 PM
All this thread proves is that idiots exist on both sides of the Atlantic..... :roll:

I like to reaffirm this assessment after four pages of worthless posts.

Sharp
05-28-2005, 02:10 PM
and who start the threads? the french? rofl :bash:

BlackRain
05-28-2005, 03:16 PM
http://rfi.fr/images/064/agent_orange220.jpg


http://www.hatfieldgroup.com/files/Agent_Orange_Lawsuit.pdf

You have got to be kidding.


Agent Orange

A) At the time, Agent Orange, was a common herbicide with no known health hazards. Both civilians and US military members were affected unknowingly. The USA has been compensating those affected.

French Nuclear Tests

B) France conducted 193 nuclear tests after the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty in 1963 despite the fact it was know to spread radiation fallout on crops, people, and water supplies. This was intentional and France has refused to compensate those affected.

If you want to talk about lawsuits, these are for you:

French atomic lawsuit

The lawsuit alleges "collective negligence," involuntary homicide, and more on behalf of the veterans of 210 French atomic tests in the Sahara and French Polynesia between 1960 and 1996.

http://www.the-scientist.com/news/20041203/02


Activists open new front over Mururoa test fallout

Two members of the French Senate have backed the suit and called on President Jacques Chirac to make good on a promise he made in Polynesia in July to set up a panel to investigate any health consequences from the test programme.

France conducted 193 tests at Mururoa and Fangataufa between 1966 and 1996. It also carried out four blasts in the Sahara in Algeria.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=3537344


May 20, 2005 - Xinhua - France denies accusations of neglecting Polynesians in nuclear tests in 1960s -

French Defense Ministry on Thursday denied the report as "baseless" accusing the French army of knowingly exposing the people of French Polynesia without protection during nuclear tests in the region in the 1960s. "We say in the most formal way... that all of these allegations are baseless," French Defense Ministry's spokesman Jean-Francois Bureau said at a weekly news conference on Thursday. "The conditions under which the people of French Polynesia were protected at the time of the atmospheric nuclear tests were strictly the same as those applied to military personnel conducting the tests," he said. The left-leaning French newspaper Liberation quoted in its Wednesday edition a "secret military document", saying France has "concealed the risks that nuclear tests posed to the Polynesians" and had not knowingly protected citizens during a test on July 2, 1966.

May 20, 2005 - The Australian - Fears over health after nuclear tests -

Inhabitants of the Gambier islands in French Polynesia have called for access to defence ministry files on the impact on their health of 30 years of French nuclear tests on Pacific atolls. In the request, Gambier mayor Monique Richeton and several inhabitants of Mangareva island asked "that they be granted access to information and documents to enable them to understand the effects on their health and that of their descendants of the nuclear tests carried out in French Polynesia". Roland Oldham, president of the "Murura e Tatou" (Mururoa and us) association of some 5000 Polynesians who worked on the two nuclear sites in Polynesia between 1966 and 1996, said "reports stamped 'Secret' from 1966 found (they) mention considerable radioactive fallout on the inhabited islands and atolls close to Mururoa, in particular on the island of Mangareva, in the Gambier archipelago". Mr Oldham also recalls the very powerful "Aldebaran" nuclear test carried out in Mururoa from a barge on July 2, 1966 in the presence of then French leader General Charles de Gaulle. "The program of the presidential visit required that one carried out the launch despite bad atmospheric conditions, and a launch from a barge always causes intense nuclear pollution because the debris is carried up."

Inconnu
05-28-2005, 04:13 PM
Bon ok on va sortir les bon gros dossiers...

Inconnu
05-28-2005, 04:21 PM
300 civils dead in afghanistan

Bombardment of a school (Afghanistan)

http://membres.lycos.fr/wotraceafg/victimes.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/wotraceafg/victimes4.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/wotraceafg/victime.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/wotraceafg/victimes2.jpg

ronin2172
05-28-2005, 04:24 PM
Where are the mods....someone lock this thread PLEASE :|

thibaud
05-28-2005, 04:38 PM
the fact is that we(FRANCE) did 45 atmospheric test and the USA 216.

the total number(atmospheric and underground) for France is 148 and for the USA it's 829.

taken from here
http://www.stratisc.org/partenaires/ihcc/ihcc_nuc1_Lebaut.html


problem for American nuclear test

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/radevents/1954USA1.html

Castle Bravo nuclear test, 1954
compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston
last modified 11 May 2005

Date: 1 March 1954

Location: ****** Atoll, Marshall Islands, Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, Pacific Ocean

Type of event: fallout from atmospheric nuclear test

Description:

In 1954 the United States conducted Operation Castle, a series of nuclear tests in the Marshall Islands; the goal was to test prototypes of the first weaponized thermonuclear weapons ("emergency capability" weapons). The first shot in the series was Bravo, a test of the "Shrimp" TX-21 device, with a predicted yield of 6 megatons. The device was placed at the end of a causeway extending onto the reef 970 meters from the southwest tip of Namu island in ****** Atoll. It was detonated at 6:45 AM on 1 March local time (18:45 28 February Universal Time). Designers had significantly underestimated the efficiency of reactions involving lithium-7 in the lithium deuteride solid fuel (one of the design innovations being tested); the actual yield was 15 megatons, 67% from fission. Additionally, shortly after the detonation the wind shifted from northward to eastward.

A Japanese fishing boat, the Fukuryu Maru (Lucky Dragon) was just outside the 130-km radius restricted zone and received heavy fallout beginning about 1.5 hours after detonation. The 23 crewmembers did not recognize the falling material as hazardous and made little effort to minimize their exposure to it; some crew members tasted the fallout. Some crew members began developing radiation sickness within three days, and the entire crew developed acute radiation sickness before the boat returned to Japan on 14 March. On return to Japan, the boat's owner recognized the crew was ill and called a hospital, which referred the men for treatment the following day. One member of the Fukuryu Maru crew died of a liver disorder, a complication from radiation sickness, on 23 September 1954.

Significant fallout also fell on inhabited islands west of ****** under U.S. jurisdiction, exposing native islanders on Rongerik, Rongelap, Ailinginae, and Utirik atolls, all of which were evacuated on 3 March. The highest doses were to the 64 inhabitants of Rongelap Atoll (about 170 km from ground zero), some of whom received 175 rads before their evacuation 44 hours after the detonation. Some reports indicate that Rongelap inhabitants (unaware of the nature of the fallout) did little to minimize exposure, including inadvertent ingestion of fallout, contributing to acute radiation injury. In addition, 37 U.S. naval personnel--21 on the USS Philip and 16 on the USS Bairoko--received beta burns from fallout particles, producing lesions which all healed without complications. Some evacuated inhabitants of downwind atolls later developed thyroid hypofunction; thyroid exposure for some who were children at time of exposure is estimated at 700-1,400 rad and at 325 rad for some adults. Those who were children at Rongelap show high frequencies of thyroid anomalies, and one 19-year old male died in 1972 of leukemia (age 1 year at time of exposure).

Consequences: 1 fatality, 93+ injuries.


The USA has been compensating those affected.
why is there still some lawsuit

http://www.hatfieldgroup.com/files/Agent_Orange_Lawsuit.pdf

big chemical company like CHEMICAL DOW and MONSANTO provide the "agent orange"

i'm always laughting when NZ and AU(part of the UKUSA pact) complain about French nuclear test.Why this contry didn't complain about the American test in the pacific and the British test in AU
:D

Inconnu
05-28-2005, 04:46 PM
Vietnam

http://1967vietnam.free.fr/napalm_kim_phuc.jpg

June 1967: fleeing its village devastated by a bomb with napalm

Catch22
05-28-2005, 05:28 PM
I wonder what is BR and Bluezoo's agenda in their endless efforts to attack France and its military. Javhen at least drives old Peugeot. ;)

But honestly, speaking of hypocrisy - which country with its ambitions set on international scale isn't? I'd say it's a essential requirement. Nothing to be shocked with.

sups
05-28-2005, 05:34 PM
Nice thread. :lol:

BlackRain
05-28-2005, 06:21 PM
I wonder what is BR and Bluezoo's agenda in their endless efforts to attack France and its military. Javhen at least drives old Peugeot. ;)




It is funny that a news story about French troops engaged in rape is an 'attack'.

An attack would be post a thread based on lies.

Catch22
05-28-2005, 06:41 PM
Eine kleine Sophistik there BR.

Attack is what it is. You've done it on pourpose, reaction of French forum members wasn't hard to foreseen. I'd like to know wha you got in it exactly? You enjoy calling others black, Pot? ;)

Mirage
05-28-2005, 07:01 PM
C'mon guys! Don't play those silly games with Blackrain & bluezob. Do not fall at their lowest level. All they can do is to show how ignorant and stupid they are.
Oh and bluezob, next time avoids sending me your insults by PM. your insults are soooooooooo original ! rofl rofl rofl

RGRBOX
05-28-2005, 07:10 PM
i saw "***" in the title so i had to investigate.................... :roll:

X2... sadly this kind of stuff goes on in a lot of ops..

ronin2172
05-28-2005, 07:14 PM
i saw "***" in the title so i had to investigate.................... :roll:

X2... sadly this kind of stuff goes on in a lot of ops..
exactly all armies have their bad seeds...you usually don't know thay are bad till it's too late.

It is laughable that some on here post pics of Hiroshima and that pic from vietnam (which didn't even INVOLVE US troops BTW) as examples of unprofessionalism....

S'13
05-28-2005, 07:30 PM
*Walks in* :| *turns around and gets the f__ck out of this thread*

Seiyuuki
05-28-2005, 07:39 PM
It doesn't do much to prove a point Inconnu, all your posts does is letting us know you are more pathetic, if not as pathetic as some of the idiots in this thread so far.