Beast from the middle east

[Javehn]

Yes , infantry infantry infantry,SF , SF, SF everywhere ... What about to see some real beasts here , ha ? Do i hear , bring it on ?? Do i hear it ? Yes , i do , so here you go ...

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merkava-3/images/972.JPG
Waw , man , what a beautifull picture .. Somewhere on the northern border .

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merkava-3/images/699.jpg
The guy is trying to clean some barrel ... Oops , you missed ! Better luck next time

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merkava-3/images/439.JPG

Taking out the Sabot shell , fired during exercize. That's my battalion.

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merkava-3/images/759.JPG
What do you think is going on here ?? No , you wrong ! They don't wanna blast his ass !!

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merkava-3/images/897.jpg
Inside Nablus , tank from my Battalion .

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merkava-3/images/Merk01.jpg
Go go go , you Elephant !

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merk3_rubber_trucks/images/630.jpg
That's not a good way to impress ladies ... This tank from a platoon , that lost 2 tanks from road mines inside Gaza strip .

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merk3_rubber_trucks/images/121_.JPG
That is the first tank that blow up ... 3 dead crueman, happened in Gaza strip .

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/Army/Merkava-3/images/111.JPG

My ass is right now inside this tank on gunnery seat of that Tank , and that's my Co with glasses. Crazy bastard !!

May god bless "Waronline" ...

[UoUo]

BTW: the tamk that blow up in Gaza is retrun into service....

[Operation Ivy]

:hug: :hug: Great Pics.....so i take it you were the gunner when you were in the service? :D

[Javehn]

Not all the time , but among the rest ...

[Operation Ivy]

Cool :P .....how many Merkava4'sand and 3's u got over there in isreal?

[Javehn]

I am afraid , i can't tell you that, even if i knew :)

[UoUo]

I am afraid , i can't tell you that, even if i knew :)

בטחון שדה שולט....

[IDFM203]

Awesome pics javehn!! woot :D

As for that ice cream truck (“gazlan”), I already posted that pic before.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5479

Shalom :D

[Herrmannek]

Damn...Merkava is ***'y( hope it's she, because of "dana international" mistake I'm very careful when talking about israeli hmm "eqiupment" :) ).

Can you tell me if merkava is good when talking about enginering/malfunctions:

How much time does it take to change cannon?
How much time does it take to change engine?
If it's easy to maintain in the field?
etc?

[AirZone]

Damn...Merkava is ***'y( hope it's she, because of "dana international" mistake I'm very careful when talking about israeli hmm "eqiupment" :) ).


rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

good one



and GOD you gotta love the MK3..its just a S-E-X-Y and a gigantic beast...

i gotta see the MK4 in action..

[Javehn]

Damn...Merkava is ***'y( hope it's she, because of "dana international" mistake I'm very careful when talking about israeli hmm "eqiupment" :) ).

Can you tell me if merkava is good when talking about enginering/malfunctions:

How much time does it take to change cannon?
How much time does it take to change engine?
If it's easy to maintain in the field?
etc?

Well.

1)Cannon is changed on very rare occations on routine . So , i have no idea how time it takes to replace it . Also , it doesn't replaced on the field , but taken to replace centers .
2)Engine - something like a 45 minutes/1.15 hour (depend what type of armor is mounted ) while the ingenears take it easy . And i mean full change on routine time - with cleaning the internal void of engine by the crue before the new one get's inside .It takes much less time on war times .
3)Easy to maintain ? Much easier compared to M60's . That's why all M60's IDF crues calling Merkava crues "Pussies" - They don't have to eat that much grease and oil , and we had mailfunctions on much less occations then they had . And Merkava 4 is even better ...
By the way , most of maintaining is done by the crue itself , not like on U.S. army for example .

And by the way , about "Dana International" , he/she was acctually a machine-gunner in one of best infantry brigades . Maybe that's just Urban legend , but maybe not ....

[Herrmannek]

Anyone have photo how its look inside?

[Javehn]

Well now that's a big no no , dude !!!

[Herrmannek]

Well now that's a big no no , dude !!!

Why? I only wanted to see how much space & comfortable is inside. I was only in t-72 and it was to litle spaced so wanted to know if all tanks the same.

[Javehn]

It is much more comfortable inside then T-62 . Why you can't see inside ? Operational security violation , more or less . But it is much more roomy . The sealing is also higher then in T62 , when i was inside i couldn't stand in full hight . Speccialy i pity the poor gunner inside T62 , those bastards really suffer there !! Someone who hasn't have clastrophobia , will get it inside T62. Well , Merkava is built in bigger considirations on Human ingeniering , then Russian tanks . By the way , i am talking about the 3-rd Merkava. In second and first it's pretty much the same space (except the hight ) , i bellieve , and looks like a maze .About the equipment , nothing to compare ...

[Operation Ivy]

These pics are for Herrmannek :D ,its not the MK4 but it is the M1A2 Abrams woot

Loader and Commander
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank86.jpg

Hatches looking into Loader and Gunner
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank87.jpg

A look down into the Loaders postion
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank88.jpg

Another Loader postion spot
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank89.jpg

Looking down into the Commader postion
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank90.jpg

Commander and Gunner postion (Gunner is below Commander)
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank91.jpg

Commander postion again
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank92.jpg

Commanders computer stuff
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank93.jpg

Gunner postion
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank94.jpg

Gunner postion again
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank95.jpg

Driver postion
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/Tank96.jpg

[Mr. Nielsen]

I believe the Soviet's with their vast number of people to choose from, simply picked small people for their tank crews.

[Javehn]

Mother ****er !! Holly smoking dragon !! Does your tankers acctualy do something by themselfes , or the computers do everything for them ! You can walk the dog inside without any problem , or to have a little run without any problem ... :lol:
Does the commander sit adjustable up and down , or he is just staying on the same position ?? Well , you have a little flaw there - in order to commander to access full control over turret (the joystick there ) and screans , he should sit deep inside the tank , and cannot watch outside ..
Commander is also sitting to close to gunner , and cannot kick his head with the boot :( . Gunner position more or less look allike, damnit you have money ... Yes , driver seat is yammi . Your lasy tankers drive it while laying down !! And those big screens everywhere ....Looks like cinema with Dolby surround . I guess we have the same abbilities , while you just make it look fancy :( , and making people more lasy ...Is that true that M1 loader loads rounds while he is sitting ?? rofl

[IDFM203]

I believe the Soviet's with their vast number of people to choose from, simply picked small people for their tank crews.wow is that for real??

You mean did they have a maximum height requirement? And if so what would that be?

Interesting indeed!

shalom :D

[Herrmannek]

M1 is realy huge inside in comparsion to t-72 :)

[Javehn]

By the way , no relation to topic ...
This picture taken in Gaza streap in one of the posts . This one is for Russian members over here . I preffer you that this one remains without translation ...

http://waronline.procentr.org/Waronline_photo/gaza-or.jpg

[UoUo]

so what the meaning of that ?

[Operation Ivy]

For Javehn the commander doesnt have full control of the turret, once he finds a target the gunner takes over while the commander then uses the thermal viewer to scan the area for other possible threats. And yes the loader can load sitting :D

[Javehn]

For Javehn the commander doesnt have full control of the turret, once he finds a target the gunner takes over while the commander then uses the thermal viewer to scan the area for other possible threats. And yes the loader can load sitting :D

Thanks for explaining me how target acquire works , and what level of control the commander have over the turret ... rofl (no hard feelings ?? :( )
And that's not exact also .The thermal channel is fully connected to other optic channels up to gun . The commander on Abrams have this thingy called ... (don't remember) active field scanner (i think HITV or something like this ), he can use it to check the battlefield independent to gunner. But during target acquire and engagement , the commander is commited only to the target/s .

[Marmot1]

I believe the Soviet's with their vast number of people to choose from, simply picked small people for their tank crews.wow is that for real??

You mean did they have a maximum height requirement? And if so what would that be?

Interesting indeed!

shalom :D

he he well in polad there was max height for tankers....i don't know how it is now but for submarines there is still max height...

and where is microwave in this M1??? :D :D
in T-72 at least you can fry eggs on engine and how about M1??? woot woot

[Operation Ivy]

and where is microwave in this M1???
in T-72 at least you can fry eggs on engine and how about M1???
_________________


I thought the microwave was in the Challenger 2, could be wrong though.
Im pretty sure you could cook many things on the Abrams Turbine Engine :D

[perdurabo]

and where is microwave in this M1???
in T-72 at least you can fry eggs on engine and how about M1???
_________________


I thought the microwave was in the Challenger 2, could be wrong though.
Im pretty sure you could cook many things on the Abrams Turbine Engine :D

lol the biggest and the moust scary kitchen on tracs :)
i prefer airplanes ;-) like russian MIG25 caled "Spiritovoz" (or something like that) because it's systems needed pure alkochol so siberian units were very happy when mig25 occured :)

[AirZone]

and where is microwave in this M1???
in T-72 at least you can fry eggs on engine and how about M1???
_________________


I thought the microwave was in the Challenger 2, could be wrong though.
Im pretty sure you could cook many things on the Abrams Turbine Engine :D

lol the biggest and the moust scary kitchen on tracs :)
i prefer airplanes ;-) like russian MIG25 caled "Spiritovoz" (or something like that) because it's systems needed pure alkochol so siberian units were very happy when mig25 occured :)

rofl

[Javehn]

Well , i found some official photos made by different Israeli companies that work on Merkava project , so i can put those pics here -

That's Merkava 120mm smooth bore gun .
http://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/image/120mm%20Gun.jpg

That's a shell designed to train loaders .In have fire mechanizm inside to fire 50 cal , when it have the same weight as real shell .
http://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/image/istd.jpg

Heat shell, Sabot shell, and training Sabot
http://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/image/Halulan.jpghttp://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/image/Hozezan2-2.jpghttp://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/image/Hozezan-tp.jpg

That 60mm internal mortar inside Merkava
http://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/image/11.jpg

FCS
http://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/image/FCS%20Family%20(1).jpg

Orkit ammo containers for ammo .
http://www.eurosatory.mod.gov.il/image/Dscf0013.jpg

[MolliG]

More beasts from the Middle East ;)...

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram111.jpg
Saudi M1A2s (Also used by the Kuwaitis).

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/leclerc1.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leclerc/leclerc9.html

http://www.geocities.com/coolfrankb/TANKS/PicLeclerc2.jpg
UAE's Tropicalised Leclercs

:)

[IDFM203]

More beasts from the Middle East ;)... what, are those conceived and invented there? ;) As far as I know the Israeli Markava is the only “beast” that was conceived and invented in the middle east and thus is the only true beast from the middle east! :D (although yes there are now imported “beasts” from other nations in the region now)


http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram111.jpg
Saudi M1A2s (Also used by the Kuwaitis).
I believe that they are also used in large number by the Egyptians.(Although I am not sure if its this version)

Yes a lot of the Arab nations have replaced the soviet arms with American arms……………I wonder why ;)...and more importantly why the build-up?? :roll:

Shalom :D

[oldsoak]

Do the Israelis use DU rounds ?

[Nochmal]

About the loader sitting in the M1:

I remember seeing a piece of live video on TV that was said to come from inside a fighting M1 during GW2 as the M1 was crossing the Euphrates fairly far north. The shot was of the loader who was sitting down inside the tank and had full audio. You can hear that the tank is moving and suddently you hear what sounds like bullets bouncing off the armor and the loader has the natural reaction of ducking and hunching down. A few seconds later you hear the main gun go off and the loader starts pulling rounds out of what looks like a cabinet on his right where they are stored horizontally, dropping the round to a vertical position between his feet and sliding them into what looks like a breach on his left. In addition to the main gun, you also hear what sounds like a cannon (from a Bradley?) going off.

I haven't ever found the video online...if anyone knows where it could be found I'd like to see it again.

N

[uri]

so what the meaning of that ?

in free translation it says:
thank you my dear army
for fu**ed up holidays
:cantbeli:

by the way - nice photos !
http://www.fresh.co.il/dcforum/Images/bullets/flag.gif

[UoUo]

More beasts from the Middle East ;)... what, are those conceived and invented there? ;) As far as I know the Israeli Markava is the only “beast” that was conceived and invented in the middle east and thus is the only true beast from the middle east! :D (although yes there are now imported “beasts” from other nations in the region now)


http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram111.jpg
Saudi M1A2s (Also used by the Kuwaitis).
I believe that they are also used in large number by the Egyptians.(Although I am not sure if its this version)

Yes a lot of the Arab nations have replaced the soviet arms with American arms……………I wonder why ;)...and more importantly why the build-up?? :roll:

Shalom :D

Egept have only M1A1..


But hey...with the Merkava 4...and the "gill". ;)

[uri]

But hey...with the Merkava 4...and the "gill". ;)

say my name... say my name . . .
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/rough/2ar15smilie.gif

[He219]

More beasts from the Middle East ;)... what, are those conceived and invented there? ;) As far as I know the Israeli Markava is the only “beast” that was conceived and invented in the middle east and thus is the only true beast from the middle east! :D (although yes there are now imported “beasts” from other nations in the region now)
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/merkava4_idf2.jpg
True Beast from the Middle East?

According to Israeli-weapons.com (http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/MerkavaMk4.html), the Merkava Mk 4 is powered by a German built MTU-GD833 V-12 diesel engine rated at 1,500hp with a Renk (http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/MerkavaMk4.html) transmission and drevetrain.

http://www.defense-update.com/GD883_proE.gif

The GD883 diesel engine, paired with Renk RK325 automatic transmission, comprises the Merkava Mk4 powerpack. Produced under cooperation between MTU and general Dynamics Land Systems, this liquid cooled, direct injection engine is considered the most powerful of its kind. It was designed as an alternative to the gas turbines, currently used in the M-1 family of tanks. The US-German engine develops 1500hp power, and with the utilization of the specially designed automatic transmission, it offers the best power/weight ratio for heavy tracked vehicles. The electronically controlled transmission has five forward gears, also provides steering and braking functions.

Interestingly enough, the development of the three-spool, 1,500-shaft-horsepower AGT-1500 gas turbine, the power plant for the U.S. M1 Abrams main battle tank, was headed by a team led by none other than Anselm Franz, vice president of Avco Lycoming. Franz, who passed away in 1994 at the age of 94, was a Fellow of ASME and received numerous awards, including the U.S. Army Outstanding Civilian Service Medal, the R. Tom Sawyer Award from ASME, and the Grand Decoration of Honor from Austria. He developed and perfected the Junkers Jumo 004 jet engine. Bringing the Jumo from conceptual design to production in a span of four years at the dawn of the jet age was a pioneering achievement for Franz. After the war, Franz came to the United States, where he worked for the U.S. Air Force; in 1951, he joined Avco Lycoming and soon moved to Stratford, Conn. He established the gas-turbine department there and was responsible for several successful engine-development programs, including the T53 (which powers the U.S. military's AH-1S Cobra, Grumman OV-1 Mohawk, and Bell UH-1 helicopters) and T55 series of turboshaft engines, as well as the T55 high-bypass turbofan (named the ALF502).
http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/september97/features/franz/franz.html


Shalom :D

[Javehn]

Engine and transmittion is what we tankers call "Heart" of tank. FCS is called "the brains" of tank, and so on ... Thanks god we have all jewish brains,all jewish legs , and all jewish body! And the most compatible heart for human is pig heart ... (joking joking joking ).

What to do , and what to say.. Budget budget budget ...And about the Abrams , you don't want me to start explaining to you , what exactly "American" on it ...

Shalom :D

[IDFM203]

More beasts from the Middle East ;)... what, are those conceived and invented there? ;) As far as I know the Israeli Markava is the only “beast” that was conceived and invented in the middle east and thus is the only true beast from the middle east! :D (although yes there are now imported “beasts” from other nations in the region now)
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/merkava4_idf2.jpg
True Beast from the Middle East?

According to Israeli-weapons.com (http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/MerkavaMk4.html), the Merkava Mk 4 is powered by a German built MTU-GD833 V-12 diesel engine rated at 1,500hp with a Renk (http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/MerkavaMk4.html) transmission and drevetrain.


First of all I said concived and invented in Israel!!

Secondly a clear majority of the parts is actually made in Israel!!

Listen yes the Markava has some foreign parts……………….heck like you said, doesn’t the American Abrams have German (and I believe some British) parts to it!!!

That’s normal arms development and construction in western nations arms industries to have some foreign parts in it.

However, just like the American abrams is a American invented and built tank even with its foreign parts so too the markava is Israeli invented and Israeli built even if it has a few foreign aspects to it.


So again, the markava is the only beast that has come out of the middle east and as such it makes it a true middle east beast, especially since the markava is designed to fight in a middle east environment and is actually considered one of the best tanks in the world.


Shalom :D

[AirZone]

But hey...with the Merkava 4...and the "gill". ;)

say my name... say my name . . .
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/rough/2ar15smilie.gif

rofl rofl rofl
good one :hug:

http://hydepark.co.il/hydepark/upload01/030919_165219-42_jump.jpg

woot

[MolliG]

More beasts from the Middle East ;)... what, are those conceived and invented there? ;) As far as I know the Israeli Markava is the only “beast” that was conceived and invented in the middle east and thus is the only true beast from the middle east! :D (although yes there are now imported “beasts” from other nations in the region now)

But... But... But... *Thinks* ... It's got to have some competition ;).

:hug:

[Operation Ivy]

Weres my new LV100 Turbine Engine for the Abrams!! :-*$

[IDFM203]

More beasts from the Middle East ;)... what, are those conceived and invented there? ;) As far as I know the Israeli Markava is the only “beast” that was conceived and invented in the middle east and thus is the only true beast from the middle east! :D (although yes there are now imported “beasts” from other nations in the region now)

But... But... But... *Thinks* ... It's got to have some competition ;).

:hug:hehehe ;) :hug:

seriously though……….

Yeah I hear you :( (I know you were kidding but it is not a laughing matter)

I mean all this Arab build up with foriegn tanks is indeed some worrisome competition :(

I mean yes Israel has the markava’s and yes it has the best tankers (that’s for you javhen ;) ) and yes it has the Gil and yes it has etc..etc….. But still the huge numerical disadvantage that Israel faces and now the technological gap is being shortened (well Israel still has a huge gap but the trend is going in the direction of that gap getting smaller and not bigger) well it is a bit worrisome and troubling to say the least.

Shalom :D

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

*puts on flame resistant suit* How about those Leopards eh *keeps wearing flame resistant suit for comfort*

[Operation Ivy]

*puts on flame resistant suit* How about those Leopards eh *keeps wearing flame resistant suit for comfort*

rofl BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :P

Leo hasnt proven yet if its a good tank or a bad tank because it hasnt seen action :D

[MolliG]

Leo hasnt proven yet if its a good tank or a bad tank because it hasnt seen action :D

Well, it performed brilliantly in Kosovo (no major combat I know, but I believe it was very reliable mechanically etc). Also being adopted (and copied) all around the world isn't a bad thing either...

;)

[Operation Ivy]

Well, it performed brilliantly in Kosovo (no major combat I know, but I believe it was very reliable mechanically etc). Also being adopted (and copied) all around the world isn't a bad thing either...



Well they were tricked into adopting it ;) im sure its a great tank it just has to prove it, they had a chance to do it in Iraq but decided not to support us :( (not trying to start a bash germany and france thread)

[Mr. Nielsen]

Operation Ivy wrote:
Leo hasnt proven yet if its a good tank or a bad tank because it hasnt seen action

The Leopard 1 has been used in some combat on bosnia, and seems to have worked quite well.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Not to mention that use Canadians use it for the time being....I do believe its being phazed out though...I hope it does cause when I join Id like to blow one up.

[Javehn]

Leo been in Bosnia ? Interesting interesting . I suppose as part of Canadian Peace keeping force ? What was the results of that "testing" ?

[Operation Ivy]

Did it go against other tanks? and what Leo model was it? :D

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I think we use Leopard 2's to tell you the truth but dont qoute me on it I'm not a "tankist" really.

I couldnt tell you if it went against other tanks or not, theres a good possibility it has though.

[Dave the Dawg]

The Leo I's which saw action in Bosnia were Danish.

Big white tank:

http://michans.virtualave.net/ba03bilder/950318b.jpg

[Mr. Nielsen]

Yes they were Danish Leopard 1's. As I recall it, the danish army decided in 1994 to send 10 Leopard 1's to Tuzla. Using MBT for an UN mission at the was very unorthodox at the time, and actually the UN system were quite uncomfortable with the decision. But at the time UN forces were very exposed, some of them litterally stationed behind serb lines, outnumbered without any heavy weapons.

At some time a swedish observation post came under serb fire during night. 7 Leopards and an M-113 with a FAC were sent to relieve the post. On the way to the observation post the column was ambushed with anti-tank missiles, mortars and machine-guns. Air-support was called from the start, but the request had to go through the UN channels and it never showed up. That is the civilian UN chief in bosnia always denied air support so as not to aggravate the situation. So they had to break the ambush themselves, expending I believe around 70 main gun rounds.

[Dave the Dawg]

Some more pics of Danish Leopards in Bosnia in the early-1990s:

http://www.dinplats.com/ba01/leo/170.jpg

http://www.dinplats.com/ba01/leo/171.jpg

http://www.dinplats.com/ba01/leo/172.jpg

http://www.dinplats.com/ba01/leo/173.jpg

http://www.dinplats.com/ba03/airbase/tuzla9.jpg :lol:

Source: http://www.dinplats.com/index.html

There are lots more Balkan pics on that site from the site owner's one KFOR and 2 UNPROFOR deployments, but the text is all in Swedish.

Dave

[Mr. Nielsen]

From another Swedish web-site (sweden had a bataljon stationed in Tuzla):


`THE MOUSE ATE THE CAT'
By ROD NORDLAND
c.1994 Newsweek
(Distributed by New York Times Special Features)

TUZLA It was late at night when the Bosnian Serbs began to shell a United Nations observation post called Tango Two in the Sapna Finger, a Muslim-held salient near Tuzla. Danish Lt. Col. Lars Moller of the Nordic Battalion ordered two platoons of his Leopard tanks to charge to the rescue, which was just what the Serbs expected. As the seven tanks reached the foot of Sugarloaf Mountain, the Serbs opened fire with antitank missiles, artillery and machine guns.

``It was an ambush, and a damn good one,'' Colonel Moller said. ``Tango Two was the cheese, and we were the mouse. But this time the mouse ate the cat.''

One Danish platoon took cover behind buildings; the other maneuvered to high ground and counterambushed. When it was over, nine Serb soldiers were dead.

The ``Nordbat'' suffered no casualties. More important, it had done what no other U.N. peacekeepers in Bosnia had done before: strike back at the Serbs with force.

The April 30 battle of the Sapna Finger does not signal a change in U.N. strategy; in fact, U.N. officials in Sarajevo later played down its significance and hinted that Moller's troops had overreacted.

For some, though, it made a deadly point about how Western peacekeepers might fare against a Serb force that until now has had the field to itself.

Confrontation with the Serbs is not in the U.N.'s official playbook. That was clear a few days after the Sapna Finger fight.

When Bosnian Serbs violated their own agreements and blocked a convoy of British peacekeepers on their way to the U.N.-designated ``safe haven'' of Gorazde, the U.N.'s special representative, Yasushi Akashi, cut a deal.

In exchange for letting the U.N. troops go in, he allowed the Serbs to move at least five tanks across the 20-kilometer zone around Sarajevo from which heavy Serb weapons are banned under threat of NATO airstrikes.

The tanks reportedly were redeployed on the Serbs' southern front. Incensed, Bosnian government authorities demanded Akashi's resignation as the top U.N. official in the former Yugoslavia.

Other U.N. officials in Sarajevo tried to cover up the continued presence of 100 Serb soldiers within three kilometers of Gorazde and some heavy weapons within the no-go zone around that city, too, despite NATO's orders that they withdraw or face airstrikes.

In contrast, the Nordic Battalion, drawing on a long history of peacekeeping work by its Danish, Swedish and Norwegian troops, has showed how a tough stance can work in Bosnia.

When Croat troops massacred the villagers of Stupni Do, Nordbat moved in, protecting survivors and preventing further violence against Muslims in the nearby town of Vares. Then, when Muslim troops took Vares, Nordbat intervened to make sure there were no reprisals.

They didn't go looking for a fight at Sapna Finger; the battalion's Tango Two post had been shelled 28 times since February, and their tanks had come under Serb attack nearly a dozen times in a month.

Moller, 40, the battalion's deputy commander and its top tank officer, is a past karate champion; his father was a Danish Resistance fighter in World War II, and his brother is also a U.N. soldier in Croatia.

He speaks English sprinkled with American slang he picked up on NATO maneuvers, but with an English officer's accent that seems to match his walking stick. ``Turning your cheek is the wrong way down here,'' he says. ``There's a lot of macho bull**** down here and you have to adapt your behavior accordingly.''

The battle at Sapna Finger was an important lesson in what might be in store if a NATO peacekeeping force is sent here.

``The ambush was bad juju on their part. We are not here to take incoming,'' Moller said. ``Fortunately for them, we are not here to get involved either. We could have destroyed all of them and been in Zvornik by morning.''

In setting their ambush, the Serbs had deployed Soviet-made T-55 tanks in fixed positions; they are accustomed to fighting artillery duels against forces with little ability to fire back.

The Danes watched the tanks' infrared searchlights try to find and target their Leopards, but easily stayed out of their sights.

The T-55s were sitting targets, but the U.N. tanks never opened fire against them: under U.N. rules of engagement, they are not allowed to attack Serb tanks unless sensors show that the opposing cannons are warm, meaning that they have recently been fired.

Tank commander Maj. Carsten Rasmussen said the Danes prevailed thanks to superior training, tactics and technology all assets that a NATO peacekeeping force would bring to Bosnia.

Most U.N. troops on peacekeeping duty in Bosnia have been neither as aggressive nor as successful as Nordbat. Although last week U.N. commander General Sir Michael Rose praised the tank action during a visit to Copenhagen, many U.N. officials privately have criticized the Scandinavian troops.

Rose himself has repeatedly turned down their requests for airstrikes when they are attacked by artillery beyond their cannon range. Unless some kind of settlement brings NATO peacekeepers to the country, Moller's dragoons will remain more of an exception than an example.

http://hem.passagen.se/bankel/nordbat.htm

[bigisraeli]

[http://www.hevre.co.il/images/photos/thumb_109600_156453.JPG[/code]

[bigisraeli]

C:\Documents and Settings\bigisraeli\My Documents\My Pictures

[gaboki]

you gotta upload it bud..

[Groove]

I always see posting where our israeli friends write that the merkavas are the only "beasts" from middle east.

Well give the palestinians or syrians time and cash and education and let them try to build such a tank. Instead of continously raiding their metal-forming factories in the palestinian territories...

Besides this its funny to see some of this isreali "in field" pictures. This guys are laughing and so on. Would they laugh too if they would be this arabs standing on corner with some M16s and some Merkavas would hunt them ?

Just some questions - please no flaming.

Happy Xmas !

Groove

[Javehn]

I have one word to you . - Shoot the **** up
Wait , that's 1,2,3,4 words ...Late dude , try to understand
I have no power to respond to your idiotic post .. Maybe tommorow

Yea , Merry Xmas to you too, asshole . Your luck i edited my last responce .

[IDFM203]

To groove

why is anything about Israel need to be about politics :cantbeli: :roll: ….this is militaryphotos.com where we discuss military armaments and photos especially in the photos thread!!………we have tons of Israeli/Palestinian conflict debates in the general discussion areas…if you have a gripe, then do it there!!


Here we are talking about “beasts” (tanks)from the middle east and the fact is that Israel is the only nation to concive and invent and produce a homegrown tank there…….Israel’s treatments or perceived treatment of the Palestinians has absolutely nothing to do with why the Syrians or why the Egyptians or why the Jordanians or why the Iranians or why the Iraqis or why the Libyans or why the any of the 22 Arab nations have not invented and conceived and produced their own “beast”

Those 22 Arab countries have had fifty years to build their own “beasts” and they haven’t and blaming tiny Israel for them not being able to do that is pathetic!!

No flaming here but gees groove get a grip on reality!!



Shalom to you and have a happy holiday as well :D

[Operation Ivy]

I always see posting where our israeli friends write that the merkavas are the only "beasts" from middle east.

Well give the palestinians or syrians time and cash and education and let them try to build such a tank. Instead of continously raiding their metal-forming factories in the palestinian territories...

Besides this its funny to see some of this isreali "in field" pictures. This guys are laughing and so on. Would they laugh too if they would be this arabs standing on corner with some M16s and some Merkavas would hunt them ?

Just some questions - please no flaming.

Happy Xmas !

Groove

:roll: WOW your a Moron :slap:

[Macs.]

Well give the palestinians or syrians time and cash and education and let them try to build such a tank. Instead of continously raiding their metal-forming factories in the palestinian territories...

The Palestinians and Syrians had time to build tanks, but maybe you did forget something: Arabs are not good in technical stuff. Even if you would give them 100 Years they wouldn't build tanks like a Leopard... (or Abrams, Merkava or T-XX p-) )


Besides this its funny to see some of this isreali "in field" pictures. This guys are laughing and so on. Would they laugh too if they would be this arabs standing on corner with some M16s and some Merkavas would hunt them ?

The Paletines/Hamas etc has M16s/AK47s too, but they don't fight much with firearms because they know that they lose. So they blow themselves up in the next israeli cafe or bus.
Would you laugh if you have to fear a suicide-bomber at the next corner blowing up you and your family ?

The arabs know that they are bad at military tactics and have no chanche against israel, so they use such lame tactics. I mean, if the hamas etc would fight "Soldier aganist Soldier" with the israelis i would have compassion with them, but what they do is just cowardly.

[Vance]

Hamas go boom boom.

[Marmot1]

Those 22 Arab countries have had fifty years to build their own “beasts” and they haven’t and blaming tiny Israel for them not being able to do that is pathetic!!


yeah but remember that you receive couple of billions of $ in military and economic aid from US..... so you can spend resources on constructing a tank and it is dificult to create anything when you are occupied....i know something about that since my ****ry was under ocpation for 123 years then we had 2 years war with Red Army (and we won!!!) then 20 years of peace then 6 years of german ocupation then 45 years of russin ocupation (this time they came as "friends" ) so it is not so easy to develop anything... your country is small but foreign aid is enourmus if you compare it to aid that other countries receive.....
and dont tell that I am antisemite or something like this since i spend whole friday with my israeli friend on picking up girls :D :D

[IDFM203]

First to Macs……….good post!! :D



Those 22 Arab countries have had fifty years to build their own “beasts” and they haven’t and blaming tiny Israel for them not being able to do that is pathetic!!


yeah but remember that you receive couple of billions of $ in military and economic aid from US..... so you can spend resources on constructing a tank and it is dificult to create anything when you are occupied... First of all we are not talking about the Palestinians here (I mean if you do want to talk about them…. if those Arab nations cant do it, what makes the pali’s any different??). The fact is that Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, and the rest of the 22 Arab nations are not occupied by Israel!!! So again blaming tiny Israel for the Arabs inability to produce anything is quite laughable and pathetic.!!

As for aid, and comparisons between the Arabs and Israel ………

Well first of all the Arab nations collectively and some independently have spent much more then Israel ever did on defence spending (defiantly true before the soviet collapse)!! And they also got tons of help from the soviets, and yet they still haven’t produced anything!! So this is not a outside money or a “occupation” issue at all!!

Now as for “you can spend resources” well the resources that Israel spends are a big chunk of its money that Israel cant really afford to spend it but it simply has no choice but to spend it, especially when faced with the huge numerical odds and all the help (from the soviets or now some get money from the U.S. as well) and the their massive arms buying that the Arabs have gotten over the years…………Israel could surly use the money it speands for other thing’s, like on the economy, but it has no choice but to spend it!! Remember the U.S. aid averages to 3.5 billion a year. And Israel spends anywhere from 9 to 13 billion a year on defence so more then triple of it is out of its own money.

Also that aid that Israel gets and has gotten, is only a small counterbalance to what the Arabs with their huge numeric advantage and all the help and arms and arms buying that they were doing and getting and have gotten to this day!!


.i know something about that since my ****ry was under ocpation for 123 years then we had 2 years war with Red Army (and we won!!!) then 20 years of peace then 6 years of german ocupation then 45 years of russin ocupation (this time they came as "friends" ) so it is not so easy to develop anything... your country is small but foreign aid is enourmus if you compare it to aid that other countries receive....

What, so Israel get’s a little more then Egypt!! Yes Egypt gets from the U.S now….now what have they ever invented or produced????

Also Israel is a small country in terms of military spending and Israel is ranked 14th in the world (before ten years ago, in times of the cold war and all the Arab/Israeli wars, Israel was actually much further down in terms of spending to probably 20 or 30 in the world) in military spending and yet is the # 4 or 5 arms producer in the world. Meaning Israel invents, makes and produces all sorts of great high tech military products that far outweigh what it should produce for the size and money that it has, especially in comparison to other nations that spend much more then it and have budgets that beyond dwarf’s little Israel’s

So again this is not a outside money or an “occupation” issue at all!!



and dont tell that I am antisemite or something like this since i spend whole friday with my israeli friend on picking up girls :D :D why would I call you a anti Semitie?? I might say that your ignorant based on what you wrote, but I wouldn’t say anything else based on what you wrote (so far ;) )

Shalom and happy holidays to you :D

[AirZone]

First to Macs……….good post!! :D



Those 22 Arab countries have had fifty years to build their own “beasts” and they haven’t and blaming tiny Israel for them not being able to do that is pathetic!!


yeah but remember that you receive couple of billions of $ in military and economic aid from US..... so you can spend resources on constructing a tank and it is dificult to create anything when you are occupied... First of all we are not talking about the Palestinians here (I mean if you do want to talk about them…. if those Arab nations cant do it, what makes the pali’s any different??). The fact is that Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, and the rest of the 22 Arab nations are not occupied by Israel!!! So again blaming tiny Israel for the Arabs inability to produce anything is quite laughable and pathetic.!!

As for aid, and comparisons between the Arabs and Israel ………

Well first of all the Arab nations collectively and some independently have spent much more then Israel ever did on defence spending (defiantly true before the soviet collapse)!! And they also got tons of help from the soviets, and yet they still haven’t produced anything!! So this is not a outside money or a “occupation” issue at all!!

Now as for “you can spend resources” well the resources that Israel spends are a big chunk of its money that Israel cant really afford to spend it but it simply has no choice but to spend it, especially when faced with the huge numerical odds and all the help (from the soviets or now some get money from the U.S. as well) and the their massive arms buying that the Arabs have gotten over the years…………Israel could surly use the money it speands for other thing’s, like on the economy, but it has no choice but to spend it!! Remember the U.S. aid averages to 3.5 billion a year. And Israel spends anywhere from 9 to 13 billion a year on defence so more then triple of it is out of its own money.

Also that aid that Israel gets and has gotten, is only a small counterbalance to what the Arabs with their huge numeric advantage and all the help and arms and arms buying that they were doing and getting and have gotten to this day!!


.i know something about that since my ****ry was under ocpation for 123 years then we had 2 years war with Red Army (and we won!!!) then 20 years of peace then 6 years of german ocupation then 45 years of russin ocupation (this time they came as "friends" ) so it is not so easy to develop anything... your country is small but foreign aid is enourmus if you compare it to aid that other countries receive....

What, so Israel get’s a little more then Egypt!! Yes Egypt gets from the U.S now….now what have they ever invented or produced????

Also Israel is a small country in terms of military spending and Israel is ranked 14th in the world (before ten years ago, in times of the cold war and all the Arab/Israeli wars, Israel was actually much further down in terms of spending to probably 20 or 30 in the world) in military spending and yet is the # 4 or 5 arms producer in the world. Meaning Israel invents, makes and produces all sorts of great high tech military products that far outweigh what it should produce for the size and money that it has, especially in comparison to other nations that spend much more then it and have budgets that beyond dwarf’s little Israel’s

So again this is not a outside money or an “occupation” issue at all!!



and dont tell that I am antisemite or something like this since i spend whole friday with my israeli friend on picking up girls :D :D why would I call you a anti Semitie?? I might say that your ignorant based on what you wrote, but I wouldn’t say anything else based on what you wrote (so far ;) )

Shalom and happy holidays to you :D

guys.. if you cant beat them (idf)... join them

go idf go idf go idf goooo !!!! woot

another one bites the dust :hug:

[REMOV]

Yes Egypt gets from the U.S now….now what have they ever invented or produced?Well, for example: 9mm Helwan pistol, 9mm Port Said SMG, 9mm Akaba SMG, 7,92mm Hakim self-loading rifle, 7,62mm MISR assault rifle, 4x4 Walid wheeled APC and 4x4 Fahd wheeled APC, Sakr unguided missiles, currently also M1 MBT.

4x4 Fahd 240 APC
http://www.jed.simonides.org/4x4afv/foxtrot/fahd_series/fahd/fahdapc_001.jpg

4x4 Fahd 240/30
http://www.jed.simonides.org/4x4afv/foxtrot/fahd_series/fahd30/fahd30_001.jpg


Source: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/egypt/facility/sakr.htm

Sakr Factory for Development Industries (AOI)
30°06'00"N 31°20'00"E
KM 4.5 Cairo/Suez Road, Almaza
P.O. B.o.x: 33 Heliopolis, Cairo
Tel: 20-2-290-2414 & Fax: 20-2-290-1978/1210

This Military Factory, affiliated with the Arab Organization for Industrialization (AOI), is engaged in the production of infrared guided missiles, artillery rockets, anti-tank weapons, and CNC machines. The Sakr [Falcon] Factory produces artillery and missile systems of several types, including three familles of 122mm multiple rocket launchers including: the Saqr 36 with a maximum range of 36 kilometers; the Saqr 18; and the Saqr 10. Egypt is modifying and experimenting with different imported systems to develop an indigenous production capacity. The factory developed the Falcon Eye, an improved version of the SA-7B which is claimed to be more sensitive and reliable than the original.

[Javehn]

Well , respect then for Egypt guys . The actually had one badass army. Also give respect to Jordain army , they are proffesional badasses . I am not shure they have millitary industry on nottisable scales , but they army is a preffesional one , and the country itself one of the evolved countries in region .

(And now Sarcastic part) -
Oh , and i will also want to give some respect to - Palestinian military complex . Throw out all the difficulties state of Israel gave them , and even to the fact it's surrounded from all directions , they managed to arrange large numbers of laboratories , where they have assembled different types of Explosives devices , and different suffisticated charges . Also , full respect to Palestinain workshops , where they have managed to make some different mortars , and all types of Machine guns - even if they had a poor quallity , but , who can blame them . Respect to you , guys . Better luck in the future , also .

[Groove]

@ Javehn.

Stop your insulting **** please. Im neither pro arab no pro Israel. It was my opinion based on military thoughts. Not on politics. As i already mentioned. Try to fight against a Merkava for yourself....

Shalom me jewish friends !

Groove

Wesyloch Swiat @ all polish forum members

[Javehn]

Ok

[Groove]

You still dont understand me. I hate the palestinians for this ****in terror they spread over israel. I mean the kamikaze bomb attacks on children and civilian people.

What im still tryin to say is that is always easier to laugh when you sit in a tank and drive through a city hunting ppl THAN being on a corner and tryin to escape or kill (if thats possible) a MBT like the Merkavas.

Maybe you now know what im tryin to say.

Greetings

Groove

[Javehn]

I know what you are trying to say , but get real . You want us to fight inside Urban territory , unknown to us , but wery prepaired and mined from they side , while the terrorists have all the advantages in the world , but we have non . You want soldiers walk without tanks in places , where every little 5 years old boy can set up cross fire ambush to troops ? Or you just want us to trust Palestinian police to help us ? What ? You want us fighting like a gentlements , whlie they bitting us under the belt ??

We allready tried to act like a gentlements . City of Jenin , operation "Defence Wall" . Our gentlementhood cost lifes of 26 soldiers , and at top of all , we got blamed on Genocide inside Jenin.

Get real . We know wery well against whom we fighting .

Sorry if i made you feel bad , i was very imotioned because of your yesterday post .

Happy hollidays .

[REMOV]

Well , respect then for Egypt guys . You asked about what they ever produced, right?

I am not shure they have millitary industry on nottisable scales Well, King Abdullah II Design and Development Bureau (KAADB) is quite known military agency.

Some of KAADB products:
Desert Iris 4x4 Multi-purpose Utility Vehicle
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/3420033509263.jpg
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/34200334740769.JPg

Temsah, tracked, heavy, Infantry Combat Vehicle (ICV)
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/2311200362443618.JPG

Desert Ranger
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/13320031379200.jpg
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/712200355225462.JPG

Viper pistol
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/147200353055520.jpg

SWARM (Stabilised Weapon and Reconnaissance Mount)
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/123200318284246.jpg

Monjed P2 ARRV
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/2311200362912223.jpg

M113A2 MK1-J
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/2311200364514742.JPG

..and very interesting Falcon Turret
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/1232003181844511.jpg
http://www.kaddb.com/pictures/2311200361545615.jpg

BTW - you know, in my very personal opinion Israelis learned very well how to win every war they fought, but now it is time to learn also how to win a peace. Besides, it's more profitable ;)

[UoUo]

I have respect to the arab indursty...but you can't compare the all 22 arab countries...with so much oil...and US aid much more israel gets....

Israel product much more milltry product then arabs....

[Javehn]

BTW - you know, in my very personal opinion Israelis learned very well how to win every war they fought, but now it is time to learn also how to win a peace. Besides, it's more profitable

Respect , Brother , i can't agree more with you , and not only me , but 99 percent of Israel population .

But then ,what will be with militaryphotos.com without our pictures ? It just wan't be the same ...

[Groove]

No problem Javehn. I think my 1st post can be misunderstood very fast. I know the dangers of a urban fight. And i understand you were pissed off. But its always some kind of strange to look and pics where you drive with tanks through cities - like some overpowered for the situation.

Btw i like a pic of a merkava:


http://home.wtal.de/groove/ownedtank.jpg

Greetings Groove

[IDFM203]

To Ramov

Wow I guess you got me ;) ;)

Listen yes they make stuff, I didn’t mean that they don’t produce anything, what I am saying is that they nor any of the other middle eastern nations have ever invented or conceived of a anything that is high tech top of the line quality that other western nations will buy.

This “list” that you have listed above is small and it is miniscule in comparison to what tiny Israel produces (hack even Poland recognises Israel’s’ market ;) ) and I don’t really see any thing that you brought down that is impressive at all

The M1 btw is partly produced in Egypt but that is an American tank, which the Americans give over all the blueprints and technicalities on what to do…in fact I believe it was the U.S. that built the Egyptian factory there.

The same goes for the other American arms that they make.



To groove

I get what your saying but what does any of this have to do with the fact that Israel has a home-grown “beast” of the middle east while the other 22 Arab nation’s don’t??

I mean again that is what we are discussing here (remember what the title of this thread is) and it has absolutely nothing to do with the markava’s against the Palestinians.

Shalom and a happy Christmas to you and to Ramov :D

[Groove]

@ IDMF - i like the Merkava - very nice solution you made on this MBT. My 1st post in this Threas is a little OT - you got me too :oops:

Groove

[UoUo]

few of israeli things....

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/sabra/sabra2b.jpg


Sabra tank....



http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/merkava4_r0.jpg

Merkava tank.


http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/engineer_vehicles/nagmashot/nagmashot7.jpg


NagmaSho't


http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/engineer_vehicles/nagmachon/nagmachon0.jpg


Nagmachon

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/tarcommando.jpg


Tavor

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/magal/magal2.gif

Magal

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/galil/galilsar_b.jpg

Galil

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/barak/barak.GIF

Barak

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/jericho/jericho941.jpg

Jericho

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/desert_eagle/de_m.jpg

Desert Eagle

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/uzi/uzimicro_b.gif

Uzi

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/pws/pws1.gif

PWS - Protected Weapons Station

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/rcws/rcws.jpg

RCWS - Remote Controlled Weapon Stations

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/anti-armor/shipon/shipon__1.jpg

SHIPON


http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/anti-armor/gill_spike/gill5b.jpg

Gill/Spike

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/artillery/lar/lar.jpg

LAR-160
Light Artillery Rocket System



http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/artillery/gradlar/Gradlar_21.jpg

GRADLAR
A Solution BM-21 & Other GRAD Users


http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/python/python3.jpg

Python 3

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/python/python4_6.jpg

Python 4
A Leader in Short Range Air-to-Air Weapon Systems



http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/python/python5.jpg

Python 5


http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/derby/derby_6.jpg

Derby
Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/popeye/popeye.jpg

Popeye (AGM-142)
Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile

(even the US use it...)

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/popeye/popeye2_1_f.jpg

Popeye Lite (Have Lite)
A Popeye Air-to-Surface Version for Lighter Aircraft

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/sea_missiles/gabriel/gabriel.jpg

Gabriel

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/nimrod/nimrod_g.jpg


Nimrod
Air and Ground Launched Precision Guided Munition (PGM)



http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/msov/msov.jpg

MSOV

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/anti-armor/lahat/lahat_at.JPG


LAHAT
Laser Homing Anti-Tank Gun Launched Weapon System

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/surface_missiles/arrow/arrow_2.jpg

Arrow


http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/sea_missiles/barak/barak_mbt.jpg

Barak
Ship Point Defense Missile System



http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/systems/thel_s.jpg

With us...
THEL

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/self_propelled_artillery/atmos/atmos2.jpg


ATMOS 2000


http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/space/ofeq-5/ofeq-5_r.JPG

OFEQ 5

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/space/amos/amos_r.JPG

AMOS

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/space/eros/eros.jpg
EROS
Earth Resources Observation Satellite


There is much much more...but i run out of power...
Have a nice day all of you.

woot woot


Edit : and can i forgot !!! (thanks IDFM203)...

The Lavi !!!

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/lavi/lavi3.jpg


http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/lavi/lavi5.jpg

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/lavi/lavi_c2.jpg

[Marmot1]

Lavi isn't that the china-israeli modification of f-16... of cours officials deny but it looks similar to me :-)

[UoUo]

Lavi isn't that the china-israeli modification of f-16... of cours officials deny but it looks similar to me :-)

The Lavi


A multi-role fighter. The Lavi never did make it to operational service, but nonetheless forms an important milestone in the development of the IAF, and even more so - of the IAI. The independent development of a state-of-the-art plane was a first in the annals of Israeli technology. True - the IAI had previously produced the Nesher, Kfir and Tzukit, but those had essentially been upgrades - whereas this was a plane planned and manufactured in Israel from scratch.
The Lavi was intended to become the IAF's standard-bearer and Israel's first line plane. It was to be one of the world's most advanced planes at the turn of the millennium.
The Lavi's development program began in February 1980, when the Israeli government authorized the IAF to present it with a list of technical specifications for the development of the IAF's future fighter. 18 months later, in October of 1982, the process of developing the plane began at IAI, after the Lavi's engine had been picked - a Pratt & Whitney model.
The single-seat Lavi was intended to replace the Skyhawks, and carry out a variety of air-to-ground attacks at close to medium range, as well as protecting the skies over Israel. The tandem seat model of the Lavi was to serve as an advanced stage training plane, and occasionally carry out combat missions as well.
The Lavi was a small, smart, highly robust fighter, that was to be the IAF's solution for the future battlefield. Its uniqueness lay in the combination of a physically small plane with very sophisticated, software-rich systems. This meant lower purchase, usage and maintenance costs, compared to other planes. Technically, the Lavi was a very advanced plane, with a modern aerodynamic shape that gave it excellent maneuverability, low armed drag, and the ability to carry a large payload at high speed to long distances. The Lavi could carry and deploy the most advanced weapons systems in existence.
The functional features of the plane - and especially of its cockpit - were planned by active IAF fighter pilots, in a way that let the pilot handle the tactical aspects of the battle, without having to worry about monitoring and controlling the various sub-systems. The avionics of the Lavi were considered to be innovative and groundbreaking, and included self-analysis equipment, to make maintenance easier. On December 31st 1986, the first prototype of the plane took off on its maiden flight, in the first of the Lavi's numerous test flights. The test pilot, Menachem Shimol, who headed the IAI's Air Operations Section, took off at 13:21 and stayed in the air for 26 minutes, during which he checked the engine and controls.
About three months later, a second prototype took to the air. In its maiden flight, the engine systems, flight control, electrical system, hydraulics and air conditioning were evaluated. The second prototype had some improvements over the first, with a belly-mounted fuel tank, a special midair refuelling pipe and several avionic systems that were not employed in the first prototype. The IAI had produced three prototypes, out of the five originally planned, when the Israeli government decided to cancel the project, on August 30th 1987, because of budgetary problems and bickering among various economic and political pressure groups.
The decision was met with violent demonstrations by the IAI workers - but to no avail. The IAI had no choice but to lay off close to 5,000 employees.
The third Lavi prototype, the B-3 "Technology Demonstrator", was built two years after the project had been cancelled. It serves the IAI to this day for testing and evaluating avionics intended for sale overseas.

It made in the 80's...so...this is not israeli china made....

[IDFM203]

Lavi isn't that the china-israeli modification of f-16... of cours officials deny but it looks similar to me :-)no the Lavi is a Israeli invented and concived plane in the 80's way before china built their copy of it!!

Secondly while yes the Lavi was cancelled due to a lack of funds, there are many things from that project that Israel incorporates into the f16's ands f15's that make those planes to be actually around 25 percent made up of Israeli electronics and avionics (like in the case of the F16I)

Shalom :D

[Javehn]

Oh , you must be reffering to chinese JianJi-10 (or J10 ) aircraft . Yes , after American industry succesfully made Israelies to bury Lavi project , Israel turn to work with china , and soon solled them the Lavi plans , and - J-10 got airborn ... Well , just read it by yourself , big guy .
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft/fighter/j10.asp

Here is J-10

http://utenti.lycos.it/drno/news/_J10_Real_2.jpg

[REMOV]

few of israeli things....I'll check some of them out, ok? ;)

Sabra tank.......M60 MBT based, made in USA?

Merkava tank....own Israeli product based mainly (the older versions) at American parts.

NagmaSho't...old good Centurion, am I right? Rule Britannia...

NagmachonThe same as above.

MagalWell, Israeli made Kalashnikov veriosn with M1 Carbine magazines? I missed something? Even the selector is the same as in AK47.

GalilAlso Israeli mutation of Finnish version AKM assault rifle.

UziThe first modern Israel SMG, but... the idea was (more or less) copied from Czech submachinegus vz. 23. vz. 25, ZK479.

So, my Israeli friends, don't exaggerate, and jeer at Arabs developments, because the beginnings of your military industry was exactly the same - copying the well-known designs. Naturally I specially singled out the foreign features of Israel products, but you should got the idea. Most of your pride weapons have foreign roots.

[UoUo]

:cantbeli:


What ever....the fact is the arab state has much much much more resoruses then israel...and Egept and Jordan get much more US aid then israel....

There is 1 arab state that devloped Satlite ?

[UoUo]

And still...what about the other thing that i showed you ?

[REMOV]

Listen yes they make stuff, I didn’t mean that they don’t produce anythingOh, really? ;)

what I am saying is that they nor any of the other middle eastern nations have ever invented or conceived of a anything that is high tech top of the line quality that other western nations will buy.Well, Western nations are mostly the producers and exporters not importers of military technology. The basic weaponry is mainly builded at home, only a few specifical things are bought outside. Sure, the Israel has huge military industry compared to most of Arab states (and strong US connections), but their design offices also came into 21st Century like Jordanian. So, we'll wait and see.

I don’t really see any thing that you brought down that is impressive at allThis Falcon turret may be quite impressive design. And this is not the last word of KAADB for example.

The M1 btw is partly produced in Egypt but that is an American tank, which the Americans give over all the blueprints and technicalities on what to do…in fact I believe it was the U.S. that built the Egyptian factory there.Tell me, the Israeli tanks (most of them) and aircrafts came from...? Take a look, they are late but yours beginnings were exactly the same - copying and modyfied foreign designs (iSherman, Galil, Uzi, Sho't, Mirage based Kfir etc.).

[IDFM203]

So, my Israeli friends, don't exaggerate, and jeer at Arabs developments, because the beginnings of your military industry was exactly the same - copying the well-known designs. Naturally I specially singled out the foreign features of Israel products, but you should got the idea. Most of your pride weapons have foreign roots. yes some of them have foreign roots in them…….remember a lot of countries use from other countries….there are a lot of American products that use Israeli technology as well as British as well etc etc and the same goes for other nations that produce high quality weapons.

Also the list that UoUo brought down is nowhere near the whole list!! For a better and more comprehensive listing of what Israel has invented or enhanced with its own electronics and avionics....click here
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/index.html
And besides military hard where and soft where, there are a lot of other products like the reconnaissance vests and other things of that nature that Israel also makes.

Basically overall, though Israel has invented a lot of great products as well as greatly improved existing foreign products as well!!

As for “and jeer at Arabs developments, because the beginnings of your military industry was exactly the same” what so Israel and the Arabs have had now fifty years, remember the Arabs are not starting now and are not at the beginning…they are in this game as long as Israel has been.



Listen yes they make stuff, I didn’t mean that they don’t produce anythingOh, really? ;)
Yes really ;)

”what I am saying is that they nor any of the other middle eastern nations have ever invented or conceived of a anything that is high tech top of the line quality that other western nations will buy”.

Well, Western nations are mostly the producers and exporters not importers of military technology. The basic weaponry is mainly builded at home, only a few specifical things are bought outside. Sure, the Israel has huge military industry compared to most of Arab states (and strong US connections), but their design offices also came into 21st Century like Jordanian. So, we'll wait and see. first of all, Israel is a very small nation so it does import some military products as well………….but it defiantly has the technical know-how to produce at the same level as any western nation in the world!!

Also Remember, Israel is a small country in terms of military spending and Israel is ranked 14th in the world (before ten years ago, in times of the cold war and all the Arab/Israeli wars, Israel was actually much further down in terms of spending to probably 20 or 30 in the world) in military spending and yet is the # 4 or 5 arms producer in the world. Meaning Israel invents, makes and produces all sorts of great high tech military products that far outweigh what it should produce for the size and money that it has, especially in comparison to other nations that spend much more then it and have budgets that beyond dwarf’s little Israel’s



As for the Arabs,

Well again in the past fifty years (I took bits and pieces from my previous post to your fellow country man so some words are not directed at your statements)……….

The fact is that Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, and the rest of the 22 Arab nations are not occupied by Israel!!!

As for aid, and comparisons between the Arabs and Israel ………

Well first of all the Arab nations collectively and some independently have spent much more then Israel ever did on defence spending (defiantly true before the soviet collapse)!! And they also got tons of help from the soviets, and yet they still haven’t produced anything!! So this is not a outside money or a “occupation” issue at all!!

Now as for “you can spend resources” well the resources that Israel spends are a big chunk of its money that Israel cant really afford to spend it but it simply has no choice but to spend it, especially when faced with the huge numerical odds and all the help (from the soviets or now some get money from the U.S. as well) and the their massive arms buying that the Arabs have gotten over the years…………Israel could surly use the money it speands for other thing’s, like on the economy, but it has no choice but to spend it!! Remember the U.S. aid averages to 3.5 billion a year. And Israel spends anywhere from 9 to 13 billion a year on defence so more then triple of it is out of its own money.

Also that aid that Israel gets and has gotten, is only a small counterbalance to what the Arabs with their huge numeric advantage and all the help and arms and arms buying that they were doing and getting and have gotten to this day!!

Remember the Arabs with all their oil and their huge size should have much bigger economies then Israel and should have a arms industry of that quality or higher instead of buying everything “off the shelf” from other nations that they do till now


”I don’t really see any thing that you brought down that is impressive at all”
This Falcon turret may be quite impressive design. And this is not the last word of KAADB for example.
Wow one thing ;) …….oh and they invented that?? (I don’t know but I am sure your going to provide me the specifics on how it was conceived)


”The M1 btw is partly produced in Egypt but that is an American tank, which the Americans give over all the blueprints and technicalities on what to do…in fact I believe it was the U.S. that built the Egyptian factory there.”

Tell me, the Israeli tanks (most of them) and aircrafts came from...? Take a look, they are late but yours beginnings were exactly the same - copying and modyfied foreign designs (iSherman, Galil, Uzi, Sho't, Mirage based Kfir etc.).
No here is the difference…the Egyptian’s are not copying a m1 from their own know-how….they are simply building the m1 with an American built factory with American blueprints and technicalities in their hands already!!

The galil was a copy but it was a Israeli improvement that has unique Israeli features on it.

The same with the kafir.

The uzi might have been based on something but it was a unique Israeli invention (at the time)

Now the Lavi is not a copy at all
The same is with the markava

Israeli markavas are Israeli designed and invented!! (What its based on has no meaning for most of it is Israeli designed with Israeli conceived features and Israeli conceived electronis)

P.S. how's the Gil/spike treating you folks ;)



Shalom :D

[Groove]

Just a question, please dont misunderstand it again.

Why do Isreal have Nuclear Weapons ? I mean they have such outstanding modern military stuff, so why do they need A-Weapons.

Thx for any answer in advance

Groove

PS: Maybe you have some pics of your "Silver Bullets" :)

[UoUo]

To Prevent another holucost to the jewish people.

[kinghk]

Yes Egypt gets from the U.S now….now what have they ever invented or produced?Well, for example: , 7,92mm Hakim self-loading rifle


They also license-produced another swedish weapon from that era, the M45.
http://www.soldf.com/images/s_kpist45.jpg

[IDFM203]

Yes Egypt gets from the U.S now….now what have they ever invented or produced?Well, for example: , 7,92mm Hakim self-loading rifle


They also license-produced another swedish weapon from that era, the M45.
yes that’s the word I was looking for....thank you ;)

Yes out of the 22 Arab nations where most only buy “off the shelf” foreign armaments, a few of them "license-produce" a few military products instead of buying everything "off the shelf" as most of thier stuff is.

Shalom :D

[Dave the Dawg]

Too many of you people are arguing past each other.

There are essentially four options for equipping your military:

1. Buy foreign equipment off the shelf
2. Produce foreign equipment under license
3. Reverse-engineer foreign equipment so you can build it yourself (and make modifications or improvements)
4. Develop your own original equipment

Israel, naturally, started with "1" and progressed to, in certain categories, "4". Most Arab countries remain at "1", while Egypt, Syria, Jordan and (until recently) Iraq, had made some progress in "2" and "3" and even to "4" (although not in major weapons systems).

The question is why? Ignoring the racist comment of one poster, I would submit that several of you seem to have gotten the answer backward. It is not aid to Israel that allowed Israel to develop an arms industry. Although that was a factor in helping Israel afford its military industrial base, it was not the reason why Israel needed to develop it.

One of the lessons of ha-Shoah, only reinforced by the French arms cutoff in 1967, was that Jews (and now Israelis) shouldn't rely on others to defend them. Israel is surrounded by enemies who would just as soon see the Israelis driven off the Middle Eastern map, if not the face of the earth. Israel has to develop its own military industry, because it cannot always rely even on good friends like the United States to provide for it. In this regard, the French cutoff in 1967 was a lesson taken to heart.

The Arab states, by contrast, have never had a shortage of countries - the USSR (and now Russia and Ukraine), the US, France, China, Italy, Spain, Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia (and now the Czech Republic and Slovakia), Brazil, South Africa, Belgium, Canada etc. - willing to sell them almost anything they wanted. For the most part, they have no real incentive to build up their domestic industry. What military industry Egypt has developed, for example, has been more a matter of national pride than of military necessity.

Add in the lack of freedom and corruption in government and industry in the undemocratic states of the Arab World, and you don't have a solid foundation for an innovative industrial base, no matter the technical skills of Arab scientists and engineers.

BTW, regarding the Egyptian M-1A1s. Egypt didn't just assemble kits provided by the US. Several components were made in Egypt, including the main gun. The program started with kits but the amount of locally produced components increased with each batch. IIRC, the main Egyptian-made parts are the main gun, wheels, tracks and engine, while the armor (whose composition is classified), the FCS and various other electronic systems are US-made.

But of course, all of this really misses the most important point. The difference between the IDF and the Arab armies it may face lies not in the quality of their weapons, but in the quality of their soldiers. In morale, leadership, doctrine and training, the IDF is far superior to its rivals. If the IDF was still relying on Centurions, it would still likely run circles around the Saudi 8th Brigade with its M-1A2s. I have worked with officers and soldiers from Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar and Morocco, and the only one of these whose army uniformly produced quality leaders was Lebanon. For the rest, fear of military coups, corruption or a lack of seriousness about military matters keep them from developing quality armies.