M14 w/Eotech in Iraq

[Chris196]

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/122203front17.jpg


Spc. Christopher Wilson, left, and Sgt. Randall Davis, a sniper team for Bravo Company, 5th Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 20th Infantry Regiment, 2nd Infantry Division, hold sniper rifles used during operations in and around Samarra. Leaders maintain that the Stryker brigade’s abundance of snipers is ideal for limiting collateral damage and civilian casualties during guerilla-style fighting

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/122203front18.jpg

Sniper Sgt. Randall Davis peers down the holographic scope of the M-14 sniper rifle he used during operations in and around Samarra. Since mid-December, Davis has been credited with eight confirmed kills and two “probables,” a count no soldier in the brigade has matched.


The forearm is the new Knight's Armament RAS system

[Seraphim]

Who thats badass...never thought a sniper would use a eotech.

[He219]

Just like Piccolo's Mod......

:D

[SILENT SCOPE]

I've seen the US Cost Guard put EOTechs on their M14s and M24s. Makes for a nice weapon system to shot at drug boats out of a moving helicopter. EOTechs are really the best 'red-dot' sights out there these days.

[ibstolidude]

Who thats badass...never thought a sniper would use a eotech.

hey with the 1 MOA dot standard...i guess why not?

ofcourse they could have used a custom reticle.

[SILENT SCOPE]

I know it's not exactly related, but any clue as to why so many US snipers can be seen coinciding EOTech sights with 'cross-hair' scopes?

They can't afford illuminated reticles in their scopes perhaps :lol:

[[AFSOC]]

NICE PICS

Love That M14

[ST4]

Badass foes!

[GLax]

doesnt it seem strange that the guy with the eotech seems to be doing all the shooting? (referring to the 8 confirmed, 2 probable) but anyway, fancy scope. :D

[FallenAngel]

Since mid december? So, in a week and a half, this guy has 8 kills and 2 probables?

Not too shabby. ;)

[Ratamacue]

Sounds like the Strykers are living up to the highest of expectations.

[venture160]

anyone want to chime in on how exactly those holographic sights work?

[SILENT SCOPE]

anyone want to chime in on how exactly those holographic sights work?

I own one, and the manual doesn't even explain it. All I know is that they are much better than the Aimpoints I have owned in the past. I bought the thing for one of my airsoft guns, but I have tried it on some of my friends' real rifles and it is so much better that I think it would save American lives to get rid of Aimpoint sights and replace them with EOTechs.

Anyways, enough about that. I think you could probably find out how they work on EOTech's website, eotech-inc.com

[radon]

respect for the sniper :D

[fokket]

Red dot and holography is different.

Basically red dot, it is simply a LED light reflected on the surface
of the semi-reflective glass of Red dot sight. That's why it is
inevitable to have some reflection on aimpoint etc.

However, holography(EOTECH)
works onn same principle as HUD, a laser is 'fired' which then
hits a glass with embedded reticle pattern inside it then hits 2/3 mirrors
before it eventually hits the glass....

[usa320]

I think the below speaks volumes:

http://eotech-inc.com/images/aimpoint_view.jpg

Aimpoint

http://eotech-inc.com/images/HWS_view.jpg

EOtech

[DeltaWhisky58]

What weapon is the guy on the left of the picture holding? .50BMG McMillan or something like that?

[Ratamacue]

Looks to be an M24 sniper rifle.

[earl]

Pretty sure it's an M24. It has a PVS-10 day/night scope. Has anybody seen that flash suppressor used on an M24 before? Is it just a 'duckbill' shape? First time I've seen it.

(Looks like it has 3 cuts, both sides and top, none on the bottom to reduce dust kicked up by muzzle blast.)

[venture160]

thanks a ton us320, but thats with a night vision adapter right?

[earl]

http://eotech-inc.com/images/aimpoint_view.jpg
http://eotech-inc.com/images/aimpoint_view.jpg


Those are from Eotech's website. I'm sure Eotech's demonstration isn't giving the Aimpoint a fair opportunity. The larger reticule would be an advantage for visibility but I doubt the Aimpoint's dot would be so hard to see.

[[AFSOC]]

I wish i had an M14:(

Anybody got any pics of the M14 in action during the war in IRAQ, cuz if you do....can ya'll post em plz?

[Chris196]

http://eotech-inc.com/images/aimpoint_view.jpg
http://eotech-inc.com/images/aimpoint_view.jpg


Those are from Eotech's website. I'm sure Eotech's demonstration isn't giving the Aimpoint a fair opportunity. The larger reticule would be an advantage for visibility but I doubt the Aimpoint's dot would be so hard to see.

It isnt...BY FAR.

[SILENT SCOPE]

Sure, we all know that you can turn up the brightness on both the EOTech sight and the Aimpoint. The point of those pictures is to show that EOTech sights allow for a much larger field-of-view. EOTech sights also allow for a much faster target acquisition and you never 'lose' the red-dot.

The bottom line is that EOTech saves lives.

[JunglistSoldier]

Eotech vs. aimpoint .. It comes down to personal preference.

And NO, the eotech doesn't provide thgat much better FOV.

[SILENT SCOPE]

Have you ever tried and EOTech sight out? I own an EOTech and I uesd to own an Aimpoint sight. The EOTech has a much better FOV and target acquisition. And if you don't want to take my word for it, just look at their designs. The EOTech is larger and rectangular and the Aimpoint is smaller and tubular.

[Chris196]

Have you ever tried and EOTech sight out? I own an EOTech and I uesd to own an Aimpoint sight. The EOTech has a much better FOV and target acquisition. And if you don't want to take my word for it, just look at their designs. The EOTech is larger and rectangular and the Aimpoint is smaller and tubular.

Yes I have. Ive shot both extensively. I prefer the Aimpoint simply from the fact that the controls are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to use under stress or while wearing gloves. That and I find the Eotechs 65MOA reticle distracting. Both of those pictures dont give an accurate representation of anything resembling the view through an Eotech or Aimpoint. The black background simply does not exist when using the real optics with both eyes open, like you should be if you have a clue what you're doing.

[Operation Ivy]

Silent_Sc(+)pe i just have to say i like your sig :D

[Chris196]

Since mid december? So, in a week and a half, this guy has 8 kills and 2 probables?

Not too shabby. ;)


http://www.armytimes.com/

"December 23, 2003

Sniper’s skills in demand in Iraq


By Matthew Cox

Army Times Staff writer


SAMARRA, Iraq — The sun was sinking at the desert’s edge when Sgt. Randall Davis spotted his target, an armed Iraqi on a rooftop about 300 meters away. “It was just getting dark. I saw a guy step in front of the light,” said the 25-year-old sniper.


Davis knew he was watching another sniper by the way the man stepped back into the shadows and crept along the roofline to spy down on a squad from his unit — B Company, 5th Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment. “Most people, when they get on a roof, will just move around and do what they’ve got to do,” he said in a recent interview here. “But this guy was moving slowly, trying to have smooth motions, trying to stay in the shadows.”


From his own rooftop position, Davis tracked him with his favorite weapon — an M-14 rifle equipped with a special optic sight that has crosshairs and a red aiming dot. He didn’t have to wait long before the enemy sniper made his second mistake. “He silhouetted his rifle from the waist up, trying to look over at the guys in the courtyard,” Davis said. His M-14 spoke once.


“I hit him in the chest. He fell back. His rifle flew out of his hands,” Davis said. “You could see blood spatter on the wall behind where he was standing.” Confirmed kill, his eighth — which includes seven enemies picked off in one day.


The deadly Dec. 18 encounter took place on the second night of Operation Ivy Blizzard, a joint combat operation aimed at clearing guerrillas from this city of 250,000, a nest of insurgent activity in the Sunni Triangle.


The operation is being carried out by the 5-20’s parent unit, Fort Lewis, Wash.-based 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division (SBCT), and 3rd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division, out of Fort Carson, Colo. Snipers had attacked the 5-20 three days before the rooftop encounter.


“We had been engaged by snipers in here before, so I was hoping it was the same guy,” the Nashville, Tenn., native said. “It’s kind of a professional insult to get shot at by another sniper.” He seems to take his job in stride, though he admits he’s been surprised at how busy he’s been since he arrived here two weeks ago.


New urban-warfare threat


In April 2001 the Army began teaching urban sniper techniques as part of its five-week sniper course at Fort Benning, Ga. Army leaders recognized the emerging threat and realized that traditional sniper techniques of lying ****e and stalking prey in the open would not be enough in a world where terrorists hit and run from inside city buildings and busy streets.


Army Sniper School’s urban training course includes lessons on concealment, shooting positions and more. The Army also added more snipers to field units as part of its ongoing transformation to a more mobile and lethal force.


The leaders of the Stryker brigade — the new wheeled combat vehicle that is part of the transformation — say their snipers have proven ideal for limiting collateral damage and civilian casualties in this guerrilla-style fight. “These guys are invaluable to our mission,” said B Company commander Capt. Damien Mason, describing how two-man sniper teams are deployed to provide precision fire against hit-and-run shooters or for counter-sniper work. “[Enemy] snipers have been a problem in this town,” he said.


The enemy sniper Davis took out Dec. 18 was by no means his first kill here. In the handful of skirmishes since mid December, Davis has been credited with eight confirmed kills and two “probables,” a count no soldier in the brigade has come close to matching.


Davis sees his job as vital to saving the lives of his own troops and takes no pleasure in the killing. “That’s one of those things you accept when you take the job,” he said.


Davis has been working in two-man sniper teams for two years. He’s a spotter and mentor for his less-experienced sniper teammate, Spc. Chris Wilson. In many cases, the situation dictates who takes the shot. “The roles switch up constantly between spotter and shooter,” Davis said. Davis, though, has done most of the shooting since his unit began operating in Samarra on Dec. 14.


It wasn’t long after arriving that he found himself with an Iraqi in his sights and his finger on the trigger. One night, he and Davis were taking sporadic fire in their position when two Iraqis burst out of a mosque with AK-47 rifles. “I shot the trail one,” he said, describing how the individual managed to crawl away, so he was listed as a probable kill. “He was hurt pretty bad.”


The next day, B Company walked into an ambush designed to draw them into the city. Before the day was over, Davis, armed with an M-4 carbine and an all-purpose optic, would be responsible for seven of the 11 enemy kills.


Most of the shots he took were while on the move at distances of 100 to 300 meters — longer than a football field, but certainly not the greatest distance from which he has hit his human target. On Dec. 20, he killed another sniper with one shot from an XM107 .50 caliber sniper rifle at a distance of 750 meters.


Davis admits he never thought he’d be this busy before deploying to Iraq. “This is the first time I have been in ever been in a combat situation,” he said. “Really it was just like targets down range – you just hit your target and acquire your next target. I thought I’d have a harder time shooting. Shooting someone is pretty unnatural.”


Early interest in sniper work


Davis is described by B Company 1st Sgt. Ray Hernandez as one of the best noncommissioned officers in the unit. “He’s very professional — one of those NCOs where you tell him to do a job, and he does it,” said Hernandez, who is from El Paso, Texas. Mason, the B Company commander, agreed. “He will make things happen,” said the 29-year-old from Kihei, Hawaii. “He will get the mission done no matter what.”


Davis said the toughest part of the deployment is that it means a year away from his wife and six-year-old son. Nevertheless, serving in a war zone is the opportunity to fulfill a dream he’s had since he was a kid. “It’s one of those things I wanted to do since I was 12,” he said, describing how reading about famous snipers was a favorite pastime.


Legendary snipers became his role models. Snipers such as Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper in Vietnam with 98 confirmed kills, Sgt. 1st Class. Randy Shugart and Master Sgt. Gary Gordon, two Delta Force snipers, who died in Somalia in 1993 trying to rescue a downed crew of a MH-60 Black Hawk during the battle of Mogadishu. “What those guys did was amazing,” he said.


Born with 20/10 vision, Davis said he has been shooting and hunting as long as he can remember. His favorite deer gun was a Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle in .308 caliber — the civilian version of the Army’s M-24 sniper rifle. “I kind of grew up with the rifle,” he said.


The interests of his youth made it easy for Davis to transition into a job he describes as a more humane way of fighting an enemy that can easily blend in with harmless civilians.


“I just thought it was a very smart way to fight a war — very lethal, very precise,” he said. “This way I know I’m not shooting civilians. Every shot you take, you know exactly where the bullet is going.”

[SILENT SCOPE]

I prefer the Aimpoint simply from the fact that the controls are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to use under stress or while wearing gloves.

I see your point, because I have the older version with the round buttons and it is so bad that I usually have to take the N batteries out of it just so I can turn the goddamn thing off. However, didn't EOTech fix this problem with their newer versions that have the rectangular buttons?


That and I find the Eotechs 65MOA reticle distracting.

Well that is why I bought my 511 model with only the 'red-dot' in it. (I'm not sure what it is called, as I'm on vacation and my EOTech is back in New York- boy airport security would get a kick out of a replica M4A1 with a holosight, huh?)


The black background simply does not exist when using the real optics with both eyes open, like you should be if you have a clue what you're doing.

Like I said, if you use the Aimpoint with both of your eyes open, you are likely to 'lose' the red-dot, this rarely happens with an EOTech.


Silent_Sc(+)pe i just have to say i like your sig :D

Well all it proves is that A. I have no life because I had enough time on my hands to make it, and B. I love my dopey airsoft forum too much because that it what I made it for.

Anyway its been another long ****ing day for me and I'm sick of playing "EOTech salesman", so why don't we leave it that EOTechs look much more prettier than Aimpoints do, so therefore we should all throw our Aimpoints in a big pit and set them ablaze :lol:

Merry ****ing Christmas and a happy goddamn New Year

Martin

("SilentScope" with a Barrett M82A1, how gay is this guy!?)

[Clay]

nice story! Chris196

[Barebow]

]I wish i had an M14:(

Anybody got any pics of the M14 in action during the war in IRAQ, cuz if you do....can ya'll post em plz?

Look at www.Barebow3d.com
http://home.wanadoo.nl/barebow/barebow/images/US%20M14%20iraq.jpg
barebow :lol:

[Deuterium]

I prefer the Aimpoint simply from the fact that the controls are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to use under stress or while wearing gloves.

I see your point, because I have the older version with the round buttons and it is so bad that I usually have to take the N batteries out of it just so I can turn the goddamn thing off. However, didn't EOTech fix this problem with their newer versions that have the rectangular buttons?


That and I find the Eotechs 65MOA reticle distracting.

Well that is why I bought my 511 model with only the 'red-dot' in it. (I'm not sure what it is called, as I'm on vacation and my EOTech is back in New York- boy airport security would get a kick out of a replica M4A1 with a holosight, huh?)


The black background simply does not exist when using the real optics with both eyes open, like you should be if you have a clue what you're doing.

Like I said, if you use the Aimpoint with both of your eyes open, you are likely to 'lose' the red-dot, this rarely happens with an EOTech.


Silent_Sc(+)pe i just have to say i like your sig :D

Well all it proves is that A. I have no life because I had enough time on my hands to make it, and B. I love my dopey airsoft forum too much because that it what I made it for.

Anyway its been another long f*** day for me and I'm sick of playing "EOTech salesman", so why don't we leave it that EOTechs look much more prettier than Aimpoints do, so therefore we should all throw our Aimpoints in a big pit and set them ablaze :lol:

Merry f*** Christmas and a happy goddamn New Year

Martin

("SilentScope" with a Barrett M82A1, how gay is this guy!?)

Hmmm where to begin.....Well I've used both in Iraq. I've also used the ACOG Reflex and had an occluded OEG on my weapon for years. Off and on I've used "red-dot" on my assigned weapon for the past 13 years. I initially thought I would like the Eotech but I found that the reticule was too large for the sight picture. We have a saying in rifle marksmanship, aim large miss large, aim small miss small. Its a fact that if you concentrate on small items, say a button on the shirt of the person you’re shooting, when you miss the button you miss by a small margin. When you concentrate on the person as a whole, you miss by a much greater margin. I found that because of the LARGE reticle on the Eotech it was hard to concentrate on a small portion of the person I was trying to shoot. I have switched back to the Aimpoint. I must agree with the other guys that posted about the comparison pictures. They are pure BS. The dot on the Aimpoint is every bit as bright as the Eotech. If you prefer the Eotech then great. I don't see the Eotech as any great leap forward or as you say, "will save lives" that's BS as well. The biggest reason I hear around the detachments that use them is the battery difference. The Aimpoint does use a funny battery and when you’re on an op in a foreign place and haven’t brought spares you’re fu*ked. As for your other comment about keeping both eyes open and not seeing the red dot on the Aimpoint that's BS as well. Okay I'm repeating myself. Bottom line. Both the Aimpont and the Eotech are GREAT scopes. There are differences but they aren't night and day. As with many things it comes down to personal preference in this matter.

[[AFSOC]]

]I wish i had an M14:(

Anybody got any pics of the M14 in action during the war in IRAQ, cuz if you do....can ya'll post em plz?

Look at www.Barebow3d.com
http://home.wanadoo.nl/barebow/barebow/images/US%20M14%20iraq.jpg
barebow :lol:

THANKS!

[IDFM203]

Great post Deuterium…….yeah its about personal preference.

I just have one question for you.

You say that you have "used "red-dot" on my assigned weapon for the past 13 years" I am just curious were you perhaps first using the Israeli Falcon (made by Elbit) (http://www.isayeret.com/optics/elbit/elbit.htm) which isayeret.com claims " Developed in the early 1990's to match the IDF tactical needs, the Elbit Falcon reflex sight was the world's first military grade reflex sight and a ground breaking device at the time" (btw I don’t know if that’s true or not. that’s why I am asking you what you used back then)

As for the EOTech and the Aimpoint.... they look very good and both are excellent from what I can tell........I would be curious to see a comparison between those two and the Israeli "ITL MARS"

Does anyone have a comparison review between all those (that’s not from the companies websites)??

Here is just a little info from isayeret.com on the ITL MARS and some pics as well

The ITL MARS-The International Technologies Lasers (ITL) Multipurpose Aiming Reflex Sight (MARS) is a state of the art optic, combing a reflex sight and either an Infra Red (IR) or a visible laser pointer, all in one rigid unit.

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/microbig.gif

As the IMI TAR integral aiming system, all TAR (the Tavor) variants have a special bottom which host the remote switch cable. In this photo of the Micro version of the TAR - the MTAR, the button is clearly seen on the hand guards (just where the pistol grip shield ends).

By combining two aiming devices into one integral unit, the MARS provides several advantages:

It enables the operator to carry less tactical optics and thus to save weight.

Buying the MARS cost less then buying two separated units of a laser pointer and a reflex sight.

Both the laser pointer and the reflex sight have the same single bore sighting mechanism, hence faster and more reliable zeroing of the device.

http://www.isayeret.com/optics/mars/mars-alone.jpg

MARS from the end user view. Note the fixed 3-dots emergency iron sights on top of the device.
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/tar21+nsaes-2.jpg

the Mini Night Single Eye Acquisitions Sight (Mini N/SEAS) monocular Night Vision Goggles (NVG) - can be mounted behind the MARS, and can be utilized as weapon mounted Night Vision Device (NVD), by taking advantage of the MARS night vision compatible reflex sight aiming dot or its Infra Red (IR) laser pointer.


P.S. love that pic with the m14 and the EOTech on it :D

Shalom :D

[Deuterium]

This was my first red-dot scope. Trijicon Day/Night Gunsight - O.E.G.

http://www.swfa.biz/riflescopes/trijicon/oeg.gif

I started using it around the first Gulf War. At the time this was the ****. main draw-back is that its an occluded sight. Around 94/95 we started using the Aimpoint. Around 96 the SOPMOD kit started being issued in quantity and I switched between the ACOG and the Aimpoint. I went to SFARTEATC in 96 and used the ACOG Reflex during the course. I continued to use the Reflex for some time but switched back to the Aimpoint because of problems with the Reflex in dim lighting aiming at bright areas. Also I think the dot on the Aimpoint is much better defined. I haven't used or am familiar with any of the Israeli products.

[usa320]

indeed, from what ive read and heard ACOG reflex really sucks in dim lighting.

[Deuterium]

indeed, from what ive read and heard ACOG reflex really sucks in dim lighting.

The part that sucks is not the utilization of the device in dim lighting. If its dark and you’re aiming at a dark place then its fine, although the dot is dimmer than either the Eotech or the Aimpoint. The problem when the dot washes out occurs when you are in a dark place, say a darkened building during the day, and you are aiming out the window from well within the room. The dot all but disappears. The Reflex works on Tritium and ambient light.

[maw]

DeltaWhisky58 asked:
"What weapon is the guy on the left of the picture holding? .50BMG McMillan or something like that?"

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/122203front17.jpg

army sniper/spotter team. shooter on the left has one of the newer m24's in .300 win mag, with an interesting sling. spotter has an m14 with the issued knight's rail with no visible sling.

it's been discussed here before, but the m14 is way overbuilt and subsequently heavy when compared with some of it's contemporaries.

[Deuterium]

DeltaWhisky58 asked:
"What weapon is the guy on the left of the picture holding? .50BMG McMillan or something like that?"

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/122203front17.jpg

army sniper/spotter team. shooter on the left has one of the newer m24's in .300 win mag, with an interesting sling. spotter has an m14 with the issued knight's rail with no visible sling.

it's been discussed here before, but the m14 is way overbuilt and subsequently heavy when compared with some of it's contemporaries.

I'd argue that its a standard M24, just has the flash supressor attatched. The sling is standard, its attatchment to me means the swivel broke and the user has used 550 cord. The Harris Bipod also takes up the space of one of the swivel attatchments. The M14 has a M-16 sling in the picture.

[jprichard]

Whats the country of origin for the Barebow website? Where were the pics taken. i ask because I'am interested in gun control policies in other countries.

[Kampfhamster]

Barebow is from the Netherlands.

[jprichard]

So you can own those types of weapons there right?

[maw]

Deuterium wrote:
"I'd argue that its a standard M24, just has the flash supressor attatched. The sling is standard, its attatchment to me means the swivel broke and the user has used 550 cord. The Harris Bipod also takes up the space of one of the swivel attatchments. The M14 has a M-16 sling in the picture."

deut -i hear ya, here's my out-on-a-limb reasoning: i figured it was a .300 win mag because the vortex muzzle brake is a standard piece of equipment on the army's new .300 wm m24's, and when i first flicked through the story i got the impression that these two snipers were assigned to the styker brigade, hence the latest gear reasoning. as for the sling, i just wanted to point it out to the others, i've seen paracord used creatively on carbines but not on a heavy bolt gun. guess the guy's improvising.

jprichard - the article in question is out of a recent army times.

[Dennis G]

]I wish i had an M14:(

Anybody got any pics of the M14 in action during the war in IRAQ, cuz if you do....can ya'll post em plz?


How old are you? Just save up and buy your self one! Amazing rifle. Link to the rifle that I own.http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m1a-bush.shtml I had a Standard M1A With a wood stock but it was damaged and I never had it repaired. Its just sitting around :(

Now this would be a AMAZING gun http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m25.shtml


And this is the gun that I am thinking of buying http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6642

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/brown_0930/

[maw]

dennis g -
don't take my word for it - ask around and you'll hear repeatedly that the whitefeather rifle can't even maintain 1 moa.
you may want to check out the new dpms sr25/ar10 clone. serious bang for the buck. if you want serious target accuracy out of a semi auto check out some of these:

http://www.radomski.us/njhp/ar10/myers/ar-10left.jpg
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/ar10/scott/Ar10ls.jpg
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/ar10/greg/greg_ar10s.jpg

these are all nra rifles (out to 600 yards with open sights).
this last rifle scored a 973-22x at the nh state championships. fwiw, just to give you a sense of perspective, the overall was taken by a tubb bolt gun with a score of 988. when you consider that, not bad for a semi.

[Kampfhamster]

So you can own those types of weapons there right?

I'm swiss, but as far as I know they are allowed to own these guns.

[Dennis G]

I know DPMS arms are very accurate I have fire things like that panter bull A-15 and that amazed me. But I would think that the whitefeather should beable to hold a zero with my bush rilfe I am extremely accurate I would hope that the M25 Tactical Rifle could do the same considering the price difference. Thanks for the response maw

Dennis

[DE_Six]

I started using it around the first Gulf War. At the time this was the ****. main draw-back is that its an occluded sight.

If you don't mind, how does an OEG work exactly? By occluded, you mean you can't actually look through it? So with both eyes open, one looks at the target, and the other one at, what, a plain red dot? Some kind of merged target image? That looks quite complex.

[Barebow]

http://home.wanadoo.nl/barebow/barebow/images/M14%20compleet.gif

Barebow p-)


http://home.wanadoo.nl/barebow/barebow/images/logokl.jpg

[Barebow]

Whats the country of origin for the Barebow website? Where were the pics taken. i ask because I'am interested in gun control policies in other countries.

I am from the Netherlands living near Amsterdam and i am the owner of a real Winchester M14 from 1963 imported from Hanoi ! the rifle is in mint condition.

Barebow.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/barebow/barebow/images/kif_0585.jpg

[Steve Andrews]

I have a Winchester M14 too. Mine's from 1961.
I live in the Channel Islands, Great Britain

[ibstolidude]

I disagreee with the EOTech saves lives over the Aimpoint comments..
I would caveat them to say "Markmanship and gun fighting skills save lives."

Eotech/aimpoint helps.


That having been said I used the M68 in A-stan and prior...but now currently use the EoTech 552, i prefer the 551 for size but the batteries are harder to come by, I do place spares in a standard pistol grip in a baggy and tape it closed.. and use a BUIS. I am too cheap to buy any stock with a battery compartment.

I have never used either on an M14 or larger...I have used both ****ting around on a M249, incidently the Eotech was great for shoulder firing with the M5 stock collapsed, in the close fight.

I am in love with the EOTech..I have used it on M4, Car-15 and MP5's..
I felt the Aimpoint often washed out. Although the points made by CHRIS196 & Deuter-. have been echoed repeatedly by others that rely on this hardware for a proffession. I find that for the nature of my purpose, a close in sub 50 meter fight. I love the 550 series reticle. I find that my ability to "groucho" and shoot accurately is sky rocketed. The aquisition of targets w/the 3-d reticle drawing my eye to target is worht to me the other drawbacks..

but that is only my opinion..as can be said with any topic in a military discussion - it would be mission dependent..

I love EoTech v/s aimpoint debates!!! - I wonder what CHris and Dueteruim say about the ACOG 4x32 TAO 1 - I am curious how often you guys carry this sight when down range v/s carrying a CCO. My colleagues tend to shun the ACOG in favor of the CCO, but I see many shooters who prefer the TAO1 for most situations.

Thanks for the input.

[Deuterium]

Deuterium wrote:
"I'd argue that its a standard M24, just has the flash supressor attatched. The sling is standard, its attatchment to me means the swivel broke and the user has used 550 cord. The Harris Bipod also takes up the space of one of the swivel attatchments. The M14 has a M-16 sling in the picture."

deut -i hear ya, here's my out-on-a-limb reasoning: i figured it was a .300 win mag because the vortex muzzle brake is a standard piece of equipment on the army's new .300 wm m24's, and when i first flicked through the story i got the impression that these two snipers were assigned to the styker brigade, hence the latest gear reasoning. as for the sling, i just wanted to point it out to the others, i've seen paracord used creatively on carbines but not on a heavy bolt gun. guess the guy's improvising.

jprichard - the article in question is out of a recent army times.

Don't know for sure either way. You could be right, would make sense.

[Deuterium]

I started using it around the first Gulf War. At the time this was the ****. main draw-back is that its an occluded sight.

If you don't mind, how does an OEG work exactly? By occluded, you mean you can't actually look through it? So with both eyes open, one looks at the target, and the other one at, what, a plain red dot? Some kind of merged target image? That looks quite complex.

Yeah you keep both eyes open but the sight is closed, occluded. Its just as easy to use as the Eotech/Aimpoint, no learning involved. Of course when the Aimpoint came out and it was a non-occluded sight the obvious benefits of a wider field of view, both eyes, made it the obvious choice. I can't remember if the sight was parallax free though. That's what's so cool with the Aimpoint. If I see the red dot no matter how I'm holding the gun, I'm seeing where the bullet will go. This is QUITE useful in fire and maneuver when I can't get that prefect marksmanship hold procedure.

[Deuterium]

I disagreee with the EOTech saves lives over the Aimpoint comments..
I would caveat them to say "Markmanship and gun fighting skills save lives."



I love EoTech v/s aimpoint debates!!! - I wonder what CHris and Dueteruim say about the ACOG 4x32 TAO 1 - I am curious how often you guys carry this sight when down range v/s carrying a CCO. My colleagues tend to shun the ACOG in favor of the CCO, but I see many shooters who prefer the TAO1 for most situations.

Thanks for the input.

Yeah I agree with the above first statement 100%. As for the decision making process, MET-T, experience, and doing what your Team Sergeant tells you are the leading factors. I personally carry the other sight for impromptu uses. Switching sights will effect the zero to some degree. I mark on the rail where to put each sight. If I have the Aimpoint on and we get into a situation that requires long distance observation/fire I have the option to switch sights. Haven't ever done it but I have it as an option. During OIF I was in a situation where I was in a vehicle with my ACOG on and was required to fire at a vehicle in the lane adjacent to us. I had to use the ghost ring but I was wishing for my Aimpoint.

[Seraphim]

Yeah I agree with the above first statement 100%. As for the decision making process, MET-T, experience, and doing what your Team Sergeant tells you are the leading factors. I personally carry the other sight for impromptu uses. Switching sights will effect the zero to some degree. I mark on the rail where to put each sight. If I have the Aimpoint on and we get into a situation that requires long distance observation/fire I have the option to switch sights. Haven't ever done it but I have it as an option. During OIF I was in a situation where I was in a vehicle with my ACOG on and was required to fire at a vehicle in the lane adjacent to us. I had to use the ghost ring but I was wishing for my Aimpoint.


Im glad you made it out of it.

[Barebow]

I have a Winchester M14 too. Mine's from 1961.
I live in the Channel Islands, Great Britain

Hi Steve thats great! but how is with the gun laws on the Channel Islands its Great Britain ???
Were and how many times you shooting the M14?
I yust bought from the US ten Mags originals from the Vietnam era with the right stamps in it for my M14.
Great rifles!!!!
http://home.wanadoo.nl/barebow/barebow/images/kif_0651.jpg
Barebow ;)
www.Barebow3d.com

[ibstolidude]

Yeah I agree with the above first statement 100%. As for the decision making process, MET-T, experience, and doing what your Team Sergeant tells you are the leading factors. I personally carry the other sight for impromptu uses. Switching sights will effect the zero to some degree. I mark on the rail where to put each sight. If I have the Aimpoint on and we get into a situation that requires long distance observation/fire I have the option to switch sights. Haven't ever done it but I have it as an option. During OIF I was in a situation where I was in a vehicle with my ACOG on and was required to fire at a vehicle in the lane adjacent to us. I had to use the ghost ring but I was wishing for my Aimpoint.

That is the type of situation that has made us (myself and comrades) lean away from the 2x + optics v/s the CCO types. a distance shot is not one that is often used from our repertoire. As far as the zero on the P-rail..we do the same thing when switching from an eotech/aimpoint to a PVS 17 or reticled NVD, marking with a touch of white out (so I can see it at low light) or other methods.
The P-rail or Weaver depending on preference was an amazingly simply concept that really brings versatility.

Thanks for your input and opinions.

[jprichard]

Kampfhmaster, You are lucky I wish I lived in Switzerland, a Sig 550-590 in every home!

[JunglistSoldier]

Like I said, if you use the Aimpoint with both of your eyes open, you are likely to 'lose' the red-dot, this rarely happens with an EOTech.



WHAT?!

Thats just dumb. Now return the oxygen you stole and do pushups 'til I say stop.

[Barebow]

Kampfhmaster, You are lucky I wish I lived in Switzerland, a Sig 550-590 in every home!
Like this one! Great Rifles to shoot with very Acurate.
http://home.wanadoo.nl/barebow/barebow/images/kif_0718.jpg
http://home.wanadoo.nl/barebow/barebow/images/kif_0723.jpg
Barebow :P Netherlands!!!

[jprichard]

Sweet rifle Barebow, but please no more totrture I'am jealous enough already!

[Steve Andrews]

Barebow,
The gun laws are different in the Channel Islands to the rest of the UK.
We are allowed semi auto rifles, pistols and carbines - but no full auto.
I have my M14, a 7.62 Galil ARM, a Glock 17 and various .22 rifles and pistols.
Unfortunately, due to family commitments and the shifts that I work as a firefighter, I don't get to shoot very often.

[reverence]

I never cease to be amazed that airsofters can praise or write off one scope over another when the only thing they are going off is running around parkland shooting plastic pellets 30m(no I dont hate airsofters at least its physical and gets you outside) but to argue the point with people who have used these optics OS on Ops mounted on real weapons day in day out for months on end is ridiculus. If you want to talk about the suitability of these optics for airsoft stick to the airsoft forum. Remember the old adage "If you dont have anything smart to say..."