Russian naval infantry/marines

[Russian Texan]

Russian naval infantry is almost 300 years old, it was created at the order of Peter the Great back in 1705.
Here is a collection of pics of some naval infanrty equipment and people who carry the proud name of "Morskaya pehota"

Some history
http://smp.by.ru/v1-3.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/desant-9.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/t18_60.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/sevast23.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/sevast10.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/1076.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/0799.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/3520.jpg

"Fasists did not pass"
http://smp.by.ru/neproshli.jpg

My all time favorite "The defennse of Sevastopol"
http://smp.by.ru/m21_2.gif

http://smp.by.ru/p1.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/war7.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/war8.jpg



http://smp.by.ru/flot114a.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/0.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/8-8.jpg


Showing off to Australians. Note the "MB" chain :)
http://smp.by.ru/str125.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/15.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/str48.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/fedorov.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/kavkaz1a.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/07290097.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/07290106.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/07280034.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/attack.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/rem-2.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/army1.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/10.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/desant.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/flot49.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/flot48.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/nk1232desant.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/nk1232zubr2.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/201.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/07290109.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/plav.jpg

PT 76 (swimming tank)
http://smp.by.ru/pt620.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/123.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/pt76_24.jpg

Marines in Vietnam, relax guys its 1985 :)
http://smp.by.ru/vet-86.jpg

Angola
http://smp.by.ru/sf-81.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/sf-16.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/ka29.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/1bp.jpg

In Chechnya
http://smp.by.ru/a_t22.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/kavkaz1b.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/131.jpg

http://smp.by.ru/war.jpg[/img]

[MAGNUM]

Great photos!!

In particular Angola (I think is rare! no? )

[Javehn]

Great photos!!

In particular Angola (I think is rare! no? )

I don't think so.I have been reading monthly russian Magazine "soldier of fortune" (or "Bratishka" , i don't remember where that shows up ) , and they do have a lot of stories and pictures from Angola .

[Marmot1]

he he this guy on 1 pct looks lika a pirat :-) btw i like that your marnes shirts in blue strips :-) :lol: :lol: :lol: also this guy with mosin and white ammobelts on black uniform looks cool

[usa320]

good photos, but i think the US Marines beat the Russian marines as far as badassness goes.

[FallenAngel]

I don't know about that USA. I'm not an expert, but what little I've read on Russian Naval Infantry gives me the impression that they are among the best soliers in Russia and easily the equal of any US Marine in "badassness" ;) Tactics and equipment however...that's up for interpetation. Those hovercraft look nice though.

[Russian Texan]

Those hovercraft are simply the best in the world :) Size, payload, speed, armament - look up the info and see for your self.
Comparison between US marines and Russian? Well that depends...

US marines 200.000
Russia is under 18. 000
Therefore different tasks and capabilities

Equipment wise US marines have their own airsupport when Russian don't
The rest is pretty similar. Although it would appear that US marines have an advantage in firepower.

Physical standarts. Hands down Naval Infantry. Their selection process and training are even more rigorous than VDV (the guys that break burning bricks with theit heads)... I' ll never forget the face of US marine officer when I was doing chin ups (yes I can be a show off :) )
Hand to hand combat skills...well I let you decide for yourselves ;)

The thing is that US marines are always in the spot light, entire world knows them, everyone have seen movies with/about them.
Just look at their commercials, I am not a marine but they almost make me cry for some reason... :)

As for combat skills
I think 16 OBrSpN said it the best:
"Marines were the ones who inflicted the most damage to chechens. Those guys were indeed crazy and ruthless sons of bitches!
Chechens were very scared of facing marines, because they heard of their fanatical fighting style. In the radio we could hear chechens say "Внимание - морпехи!" ("Danger - marines!"). There were numerous cases when chechens were jumping off top floors of buildings when they saw marines storming them."
If the enemy jumps out of buildings when they see you, you know you are good.

Here is an anecdote, alittle off topic but it mentiones marines
Little explanation: In a russian military there is such thing called "strojbat", basically it is construction troops that are used as a cheap/free labor in various military construction projects.
They are known for extremely low morale, extreme physical abuse and such. To give you an idea what its like - I'd rather serve 10 years in a maximum security prison than 2 years in strojbat...

Here is the story:

The marine officer educates his soldiers about Russian army:
Russians have VDV, each of those guys can take on two marines. Then they have naval infantry, each of them can take on 4 of ours. And finally they have "strojbat" (builders/construction units) - those animals don't even get any weapons... :lol:

[Operation Ivy]

gotta do it woot woot

[Javehn]

Ivy ??? You scaring people , man ! woot woot
Yes , those guys are really MF ass kickers , crasy ass bastards !!
We had couple of Afgan veteran marine guys involved in some fighting . 3 guys kicked the **** out of 8 people . Then they took niddle and started to stitching themselfes .
What is the difference , by the way , between Naval infantry and marines ?

[Russian Texan]

None. It just in Russian they are called "morskaya pehota" - "naval infantry" but in english they use term "marines". The essence is the same.

[Ratamacue]

Badass. Those hovercraft are friggin' huge too, alot bigger than our LCAC's (landing craft air cushioned). Any idea how fast they are?

[UkrainianSpetsnaz]

Thanks fellow Russkiy! woot woot woot woot

[Javehn]

allright ,thanks . Those hovercrafts does looks funky . Does the PT76 also belongs to naval infantry ?
We actually had couple of those , but we sold almost all of them out .

[Russian Texan]

Here is some info on "Zubr" hovercraft

The Zubr (Bison) is the world's largest air-cushion vehicle. This Russian Air Cushion Landing Craft, known by the NATO codename Pomornik [Skua], came into service in 1986. The mission of the ships is to carry out rapid sea-lift and beach landing of assault troops and combat material on territory held by hostile forces. The ships also provides fire support for the troop operations on shore. The ships are capable of laying active minefields.
The ships are equipped with two stabilised multiple rocket launchers, four Igla-1M portable air defence missile systems, and two AK-630 30 mm automatic gun mounts. The Zubr Class ships can carry up to 130 tons of cargo: three medium battle tanks such as the T-80B tank, or eight BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles, or ten BTR-70 armoured personnel carriers, or 360 fully equipped amphibious landing troops. The ships have a bow and a stern ramp for fast landing of troops and combat material. The ships have a top speed of 60 knots. It can move on sea surface, sandbanks, marshes and overcomes obstacles up to 2 meters. Speed up to 63 knts.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/nk1232zubr.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/nk1232zubr3.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/nk1232desant.jpg

Russia apparentely has even larger one but I can't find any pictures of it
Here is the article from couple of years ago:
NEW RUSSIAN MISSILE CARRYING HOVERCRAFT
Tests of a new Russian missile carrying hovercraft began in the Baltic Sea on the eve of New Year.
"The new Russian missile carrying hovercraft is meant to carry out missile attacks on ships. Today it is the largest war hovercraft unmatched anywhere in the world. With the displacement of 1000 tons, the craft has a cruising rate of 100 kilometres an hour. It is armed with 8 Mosquito missiles which hit targets on the sea and on land. The hovercraft has 20 anti-aircraft missiles, an artillery complex, a machine-gun and an interference creating device.
"The hovercraft has an aluminium hull. Though it's a light craft, its seaworthiness is very high. The hovercraft can be on an autonomous voyage for 10 days. One refueling is enough for 2,500 miles. The complement is 68 men.
"The results of tests are encouraging. As the chairman of the state commission overseeing the tests, the first deputy commander of the Russian Baltic Fleet, Vice-Admiral Alexander Brazhnik, says the hovercraft showed excellent performance in stormy conditions and carried out the first missile launches and artillery fire practice.
"The tests of the hovercraft are expected to finish this month or next and then the craft will be adopted by the Russian Baltic fleet."

Here is some info about PT 76

The PT-76 [PT = Plavayushtshiy Tank - Amphibious Tank] is one of several light amphibious tanks developed and used by the Soviet Army. The vehicle entered service in 1954 and is amphibious without additional preparation. Although the PT-76 is lightly armored and undergunned for a modern tank, its inherent amphibious capability outweighs these limitations. It has had widespread use in the Warsaw Pact and many other countries. ThePT-76 carries a 76mm main gun with a maximum effective range of approximately 1500 meters. Operated by a three man crew, the PT-76 is often used to transport troops.
The PT-76 is a lightly armored amphibious tank with a flat, boat-like hull. The suspension has six road wheels and no return rollers. A dish-type turret is mounted over the second, third, and fourth road wheels, with a double hatch for commander and loader. The driver's hatch is located beneath the main gun, at the top of the sloping glacis plate.

The PT-76 was formerly the standard reconnaissance tank of the Soviet and Warsaw Pact armies. Although it has been replaced in first-line units by BMP-1 and BMP M1976 vehicles, it may still be found in the reconnaissance companies and battalions of some motorized rifle and tank regiments and divisions, as well as in naval infantry units. Aside from its reconnaissance role, it is also used for crossing water obstacles in the first wave of an attack and for artillery support during the establishment of a beachhead. Its V-6 240 hp water-cooled engine gives it a road speed of 44 km/hr with a cruising range of 260 km, and a twin waterjet propulsion system moves it through water at 10 km/hr with a range of 100 km. The 76-mm main gun, considered light for a modern tank, fires HVAP and HEAT rounds capable of penetrating APCs and other light armored vehicles. The PT-76 is a reliable, highly mobile reconnaissance vehicle and has ideal design for amphibious capability, but it has many limitations as a fighting vehicle.

[GazB]

The Zubr has two retractible rocket launchers as mentioned above. They are for shore bombardment and are 140mm in calibre. Each launcher holds 22 rocket tubes and 132 rockets are carried for the two launchers. The range of the rocket is 45km.... their greatest advantage of course is that they are impervious to both sea and land mines.

[vmpsmII]

The story of the Russian Marines in Angola was before or after 1974?

They got envolved on the later angolan civil war after the independence I believe? I know that russia supplied the independence guerillas with equipment during the portuguese rule and that was the only type of envolvment they had.
Our troops never encoutered a russian on the field but that doesn't mean that they couldn't be there at least as advisors for the MPLA since UNITA did not have the same ideology as the Soviet block at that time. our paratroops did capture a cuban captain once during an operation but I'm not sure if that was in Angola or in Guiné Bissau.

[Javehn]

Cuban "advisors" were in Angola sence 1966 , that was a personal choice of Castro against USSR that didn't wanted to be involved there . Most unknown fact my the way , that there were also chinese "advisors" in Angola sence , i bellieve , 1964 . Both those countries had tence relations with USSR at that point of time so USSR preffered to leave that conflict at that time , and Brezhnev was very much against helping FNLA . I bellieve that first soviet forces started to came there after 1975 , when portuguese troops allready left Angola.I personnaly bellieve that you did very ****y things there , and your luck that no one in the world had cared what is going on in Africa .

[Kingpin]

The story of the Russian Marines in Angola was before or after 1974?

They got envolved on the later angolan civil war after the independence I believe? I know that russia supplied the independence guerillas with equipment during the portuguese rule and that was the only type of envolvment they had.
Our troops never encoutered a russian on the field but that doesn't mean that they couldn't be there at least as advisors for the MPLA since UNITA did not have the same ideology as the Soviet block at that time. our paratroops did capture a cuban captain once during an operation but I'm not sure if that was in Angola or in Guiné Bissau.

MPLA had Soviet and Cuban advisors. Cubans also participated in combat while Soviets in general proveded aid in campaign planning and training for troops.

[vmpsmII]

Javehn wrote:

I personnaly bellieve that you did very ****y things there , and your luck that no one in the world had cared what is going on in Africa .

I don't know what you mean by "****y things" we were fighting a colonial war at that time against guerrilla movements that operated very close to the civilian population.
so yes **** appens in every war. we did the same things that the french did in Algeria or Indochina or the Belgians in Congo or the Americans in Vietnam.
The Portuguese soldiers weren't assassins nor blood thirsty killers, they were young men that were forced to fight a war that they didn't believe in for a fascist government that oppressed the Portuguese people also.

[Kingpin]

By the way about Vietnam
(sorry, humour offtopic and in Russian)

Американский генерал прилетает во Вьетнам, чтобы проверить, как там его
подопечные. Стоит у джунглей, в дебрях слышны взрывы, пальба, крики. Выползает окровавленный морпех.
- Ну что?
- Сэр...они били нас, били...
- Кто, кто вас бил?
- Эти вьетнамцы, сэр, они нас били, били...
- Как это били?
- Боже мой, двухметровые амбалы вьетнамцы нас ногами, ногами до смерти били...(плачет) Сэр, это ужасно, ногами...
- Что?
- Да, пинали нас до смерти ногами, все ногами нас били...ногами, тяжелыми кирзовыми сапогами...
- Да почему ногами? А руки у них где были?
- А руками они себе краешки глаз держали..

[Adri]

well it is surly a good joke...but can you translate ? ;)

[Thomsen]

http://smp.by.ru/15.jpg


I like those Russians in their pyjamas donig hand-to-hand-fighting that will never be able to used in combat. :lol:

[mustamato]

I like those Russians in their pyjamas donig hand-to-hand-fighting that will never be able to used in combat. :lol:

They probably do those things to harden the soldiers, both physically and mentally. In combat they would of course not be armed only with their boots. If you train hard, you fight hard. Hand to hand combat is a thing that can be found in every (probably also the german?) military training.

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Finland/judo.gif

[Thomsen]

In combat they would of course not be armed only with their boots.

That´s not the problem, I wanna see the guy that jumps that high with it´s full combat gear, hahahahahaha!

[Vance]

well it is surly a good joke...but can you translate ? ;)
Shoddy translation thanks to Freetranslation.com


The American general arrives(flies) to Vietnam to check up, how there it(him)
Wards. Costs(stands) at jungle, in a jungle explosions, firing, shouts are audible. Creeps out stained with blood морпех.
- Well?
- Sir... They beat us, beat...
- Who who beat you?
- These вьетнамцы, sir, they beat us, beat...
- How it beat?
- My God, two-meter амбалы вьетнамцы us legs(foots), legs(foots) to death beat... Sir (cries), it is awful, legs(foots)...
- What?
- Yes, kicked us to death with legs(foots), all legs(foots) of us beat... Legs(foots), heavy kersey boots...
- Yes why legs(foots)? And hands at them where were?
- And hands they to themselves edges of eyes held..

[Marmot1]

well maybe someone will do beter translation...

updade :

but this one is also ****y translation from http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

General arrives flying to Vietnam in order to verify as there his under wardship. It stands in the jungle, in the thickets are audible explosions, the firing, cries. Creeps out blood-stainedded morpekh. - well that? - sir... they beat us, beat... - who, who you did beat? - these Vietnamese, sir, they us beat, beat... - as this they did beat? - God my, two-meter ambaly Vietnamese us by feet, by feet to death beat... (plachet) sir, this is terrible, by feet... - that? - yes, they kicked us to death by feet, all by feet us beat... by feet, by heavy kirzovymi boots... - yes why by feet? But hands in them where were? - A by hands they to themselves krayeshki of eyes held.

[Kingpin]

well maybe someone will do beter translation...

updade :

but this one is also ****y translation from http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

General arrives flying to Vietnam in order to verify as there his under wardship. It stands in the jungle, in the thickets are audible explosions, the firing, cries. Creeps out blood-stainedded morpekh. - well that? - sir... they beat us, beat... - who, who you did beat? - these Vietnamese, sir, they us beat, beat... - as this they did beat? - God my, two-meter ambaly Vietnamese us by feet, by feet to death beat... (plachet) sir, this is terrible, by feet... - that? - yes, they kicked us to death by feet, all by feet us beat... by feet, by heavy kirzovymi boots... - yes why by feet? But hands in them where were? - A by hands they to themselves krayeshki of eyes held.

I didn't make translation because it is very difficult for me to make you understand. This is about Soviet advisors among Vietnamese forces :o)

[Jack Mehoff]

I like those Russians in their pyjamas donig hand-to-hand-fighting that will never be able to used in combat. :lol:

They probably do those things to harden the soldiers, both physically and mentally. In combat they would of course not be armed only with their boots. If you train hard, you fight hard. Hand to hand combat is a thing that can be found in every (probably also the german?) military training.

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Finland/judo.gif

You obviously never train with ROK. Martial art is like their own national past time.

[George W. Bush]

Since I know Russian lemme try translating this..

An American general flies to Vietnam to check on his soldiers. He stands near the jungle, in the trees there are audible explosions, firing, and screams.
A bloody Marine comes crawling out.
- What is it?
- Sir, they beat us, they beat us...
- Who? Who beat you?
- Those Vietnamese, sir, they beat us...
- How did it happen?
- Dear God, these Vietnamese, 2 meter tall tough guys, beat us to death with their feet. Sir, this is horrible, with their feet...
- What?
- Yes, they kicked us to death with their feet, everyone beat us with feet, with feet.. heavy kersey boots.
- Why with feet? Where were their hands?
- Their hands covered the edges of their eyes.

Yes, that makes as much sense as a drunk Russian

[Haiw]

For those that don't get it; the americans got their asses kicked by a Russian that covered the edges of his eyes so they wouldn't see he was no Vietnamese (from the eyes...)...

[duck]

Is that martial arts picture from the Northern or the Baltic Fleet? The ships in the background are guided missile cruisers/destroyers?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Well Russian soldiers are tough as nails, they'd eat em and want a side of razor blades for the main course. I'm glad they are on our side :hug:

[Jack Mehoff]

Well Russian soldiers are tough as nails, they'd eat em and want a side of razor blades for the main course. I'm glad they are on our side :hug:

say again?

[mustamato]

I like those Russians in their pyjamas donig hand-to-hand-fighting that will never be able to used in combat. :lol:

They probably do those things to harden the soldiers, both physically and mentally. In combat they would of course not be armed only with their boots. If you train hard, you fight hard. Hand to hand combat is a thing that can be found in every (probably also the german?) military training.

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Finland/judo.gif

You obviously never train with ROK. Martial art is like their own national past time.

Eeh, meaning that they would be sent into combat armed only with their boots? Don´t think so.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Well Russian soldiers are tough as nails, they'd eat em and want a side of razor blades for the main course. I'm glad they are on our side :hug:

say again?

They are fighting against terrorism in Chechnya, which if you didnt know has tons of Mujahedeen fighters/international terrorists.

[Jack Mehoff]

I like those Russians in their pyjamas donig hand-to-hand-fighting that will never be able to used in combat. :lol:

They probably do those things to harden the soldiers, both physically and mentally. In combat they would of course not be armed only with their boots. If you train hard, you fight hard. Hand to hand combat is a thing that can be found in every (probably also the german?) military training.

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Finland/judo.gif

You obviously never train with ROK. Martial art is like their own national past time.

Eeh, meaning that they would be sent into combat armed only with their boots? Don´t think so.

South Korea isn't a third world country you know

[Johnnyringo]

Haven't you been out in town?? Some areas look damn close.

[mustamato]

South Korea isn't a third world country you know

Like you could learn me anything :roll:

I don´t understand your way of thinking, but I assume that it´s just the same old "we are the best, fokk the rest"-attitude that people of your type have. zZzZzzzZzzZ

[Jack Mehoff]

South Korea isn't a third world country you know

Like a american soldier could learn me anything :roll:

I don´t understand your way of thinking, but I assume that it´s just the same old "we are the best, fokk the rest"-attitude that people of your type have. zZzZzzzZzzZ

WTF? I'm talking about ROK. Show me where i say anything about American military is the best? :slap:

ROK=Republic Of Korea (south)

See, you learn something new every day

[mustamato]

Like I didn´t know what ROK was already? :)

I wrote "They probably do those things to harden the soldiers, both physically and mentally. In combat they would of course not be armed only with their boots. If you train hard, you fight hard. Hand to hand combat is a thing that can be found in every (probably also the german?) military training."

You answered "You obviously never train with ROK. Martial art is like their own national past time."

Did I mean ROK when I said they?

[Jack Mehoff]

You answered "You obviously never train with ROK. Martial art is like their own national past time."

As I said...


Well, how hard is that to understand? Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido are their pride and their national past time, just like American passion for baseball.

I'd take any ROK soldier and let them perform hand 'surgery' against any Russian soldier anytime.

[mustamato]

Yeah. I guess a russian marine with his AK74M is nothing compared to a ninja-ROK. No matter the distance :roll: Don´t know about you but if I saw a enemy I would shoot him before he came close enough to kick me down. I think a couple of 5.56/5.45 mm rounds in the chest has a quite... neutralizing effect even on ROK´s.

Would you mess with these guys?

http://www.nato.int/sfor/indexinf/113/s113p06a/b0105166a.jpg

http://www.nato.int/sfor/humanitarian/russians-day/phot4.jpg

http://www.nato.int/sfor/humanitarian/russians-day/phot3.jpg

Didn´t think so.

[Jack Mehoff]

Yeah. I guess a russian marine with his AK74M is nothing compared to a ninja-ROK.
Wait, are we talking about hand to hand or weapon? Stick to the subject please

[Jack Mehoff]

Would you mess with these guys?


I'm really impressed.....not!! Yeah, like i haven't seen that enough in martial art tournaments :petting:

[UoUo]

I hope i don't heart someone...but those guys look to ,e like a bunch of idiot breaks stoons on thier heads...how can that make them good soldairs ?

Not hard feelings guys...

:hug:

[Jack Mehoff]

I practice MA myself and i'm not impressed when people break boards. The only thing that comes out of breaking boards is confidence.

"Boards don't hit back!"
~Bruce Lee

[mustamato]

Yeah. I guess a russian marine with his AK74M is nothing compared to a ninja-ROK.
Wait, are we talking about hand to hand or weapon? Stick to the subject please

In what world would a soldier, freedom figher or whatever attack somebody unarmed, or armed only with his knowledges in MA? Maybe in Hollywood. On page 2 Thomsen wrote "I like those Russians in their pyjamas donig hand-to-hand-fighting that will never be able to used in combat.". That was what i answered to.

As for the russians (see what the subject is about please), it is not ment to be used in combat. It is for... tadaaaa... building confidence. And as that, it is excellent. What they do in Korea is not relevant in this discussion, or is it?

[Thomsen]

Would you mess with these guys?

Hmmm...

I´m not very anxious, I don´t think that anyone of them could break my kevlar helmet or beat me through my vest or even hit my rifle in two pieces. :D

Understand my intention? ;)

And if you haven´t beaten a stone or anything like that in two parts, you cannot say that it is very easy or hard.

[16 OBr SpN]

Hmmm...

I´m not very anxious, I don´t think that anyone of them could break my kevlar helmet or beat me through my vest or even hit my rifle in two pieces. :D

Understand my intention? ;)

And if you haven´t beaten a stone or anything like that in two parts, you cannot say that it is very easy or hard.

I don't know what they teach you in Germany, but hand-to-hand combat is a very important aspect of training in VDV, marines, and spetsnaz.

Breaking of stones and bricks hardly has a practical value in combat, but it's a matter of building confidence, and focus.

Hand-to-hand combat skills saved my life several times.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[Thomsen]

You did not understand my intention. :|

Instead of training my recruits in breaking stones etc. one should teach them effective techniques against the vital pints of human body and so on.

This "show off force"-effects (breaking stones) is in my opinion just one way to tell this:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6775

[16 OBr SpN]

You did not understand my intention. :|

Instead of training my recruits in breaking stones etc. one should teach them effective techniques against the vital pints of human body and so on.



If you really think that our training is only learning how to break bricks, then you are VERY wrong, my friend. The most important focus of our, and probably any other significant military CQB schools, is to quickly and efficiently neutralize the enemy. Do you think that westerners are the only ones who learn those techniques?? :)

These brick breaking things mostly appear in different holiday shows, festivals, etc. Just a show for a public.

The most common example of our training - Combat Sambo. It can be combined with different techniques, depending on the type of unit you serve in.

BTW, there are many websites of "specialists", "ex-spetsnaz", "ex- whatever" impostors willing to "teach" people their techniques! :lol:

Typical example of that kind of idiot: http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/

I remember first seeing that website, I couldn't stop laughing! I wonder if anybody, actually buys that kind of crap! :) Take a regular VDV soldier, (leave alone SpN) and he'll turn that "instructor's" head 180 degrees, before he even makes a sound! :lol:

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[Thomsen]

If you really think that our training is only learning how to break bricks, then you are VERY wrong, my friend. The most important focus of our, and probably any other significant military CQB schools, is to quickly and efficiently neutralize the enemy.

These brick breaking things mostly appear in different holiday shows, festivals, etc. Just a show for a public.

Did I mention anything else? Except this sentence, which seems to be typical for all people from former russia I learned to know or talked with:


Do you think that westerners are the only ones who learn those techniques??

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I never mentioned something like that.

The page you mentioned, http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/ , hehehehehe, I know a quite similar page from germany:

http://www.musado.de/

http://www.musado.de/combat/foto_4.jpg

Once been there, never laughed more. :D :D :D

[soldierandy]

A few years ago I read a book 'Inside the Spetsnaz' by a defector Victor Suvorov. It was the first book that came out just after the collapse of communism and described the history and training of said unit.

The selection and training of these soldiers seemed to be nothing short of brutal. One factor that always made the difference in western SF training and its soviet equivalent was that NATO armies were always accountable to their governments and their peoples. So in the west you could train your volunteers to the limits minus you couldn't kill them or torture them or brutalise them in any shape or form. Deaths resulting from training have occured in abundance in the west too but they have been publicised, investigated and measures and alterations to selection and training taken. In the USSR all inquiries were out of bounds to anyone inside or outside the non-accountable army in a non-accountable and most secretive government. This produced a special forces soldier that, more than anything, just survived a training which knew no bounds. He could survive extreme hardship, physical punishment and have the fitness of an olympic athlete, unlimited mental and psychological endurance and a dogged determination to finish the mission even it meant certain death.

In general in the Soviet controlled countries you didn't exactly had the lure of a cushy civilian life to tempt you away too much from the hardships of military life like in the US or western Europe.

However, and i believe this is a big however, free people make in general better soldiers. Discipline comes from the inside and not through fear of punishment. Heroic deeds are done through a love for your comrades, a belief in the cause you are fighting for and a trust in the goverment that sent you there. Free people are encouraged to have more initiative, imagination and flexibility in how they operate. Training is conducted on the fundamental principle of surviving the battlefield and preserving your life and your comrades' rather than bayonet-charge a tank. You are willing to fight for an officer that leads by example and you trust him rather than someone who will shoot you sooner than the enemy if you are not keeping up. In a combat situation you would find yourself keeping a bullet for your officer when you get the chance.

In the west we try to find the most intelligent way of achieving our mission, cost the fewest lives and the least effort. We have more money to invest in preserving the soldier's life and let him live to fight another day. He has better equipment down from the fabric his uniform is made, his boots and his sleeping bag all the way to guided missiles and satellite comms. The US/UK soldier has superior marksmanship - I know that for a fact, I have competed against Russian/Ukrainian elite troops - his medical care is better, his family welfare, his wages and he can discuss ideas with his officers.

Best thing for both schools of thought is to come together, share training and learn from each other. The western soldier can learn to whine and moan less and the former western officer to encourage more initiative, flexibility and lateral thinking. Yeah guys stop smashing bricks with your hands and jumping backwards off buildings and concentrate on FIBUA (MOUT if you are a yank) counter-guerilla warfare and improving soldier welfare.

[GazB]

"Heroic deeds are done through a love for your comrades, a belief in the cause you are fighting for and a trust in the goverment that sent you there."

How do you think communism has anything to do with with the bond between soldiers in a foxhole? What has democracy and communism have anything to do with how trustworthy a government is? The Soviets weren't "free" when they defeated the germans, and the Americans in Vietnam weren't free to choose to go to Vietnam (conscription).

In a free country how can you trust a government that might change next election and leave you hanging?

"You are willing to fight for an officer that leads by example and you trust him rather than someone who will shoot you sooner than the enemy if you are not keeping up. In a combat situation you would find yourself keeping a bullet for your officer when you get the chance. "

It is only communist governments that have their officers shoot their soldiers for disobeying orders... sorry that one slipped my mind.

"In the west we try to find the most intelligent way of achieving our mission, cost the fewest lives and the least effort."

Of course, operations like the invasion of Afghanistan and putting down various uprisings in Eastern Europe were all blood baths with no subtlty or finesse. The West never makes mistakes and has much more intelligent soldiers and officers.

[radon]

http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/spetsnaz-knife-banner-1.jpg
He looks like a clown rofl. Maybe that is a humor page after all rofl

[soldierandy]

I don't disagree anywhere in what you say Gaz. The west hasn't been infallible in it's military history. I was referring more to the present or recent past. Examples like Vietnam prove my point that is why conscription ended in the US. Communism certainly has nothing to do with the bond of soldiers and heroic deeds were done by Soviet soldiers maybe more than any army in WWII. Then they did believe in their government however, and the country was under serious threat. The exact opposite case was Afghanistan where soldiers didn't believe in Communism any more or to such an extent, their country wasn't under threat and didn't believe in their cause. And in democratic countries too governments are not trusted but it is the best we got.

"It is only communist governments that have their officers shoot their soldiers for disobeying orders... "

I was talking generally about armies in free countries and the ones in dictatorships whether communist or other.

[16 OBr SpN]

The exact opposite case was Afghanistan where soldiers didn't believe in Communism any more or to such an extent, their country wasn't under threat and didn't believe in their cause.


As a veteran of Afghan war, I strongly disagree with you on this matter.
When we were entering Afghanistan we thought that those people indeed needed our help.
There were numerous cases when soldiers did truly heroic things for what they believed in. There was never doubts about our job. We stopped believing our government when that traitor - Gorbachev, pulled us out of Afghanistan.

You have to understand, it is never about Communism or Democracy. It is about doing your job, and serving your country.

And most importantly, supporting your comrades in the field. The first time I lost my friend was back in Afghanistan. We served together in one platoon. After that, whenever I was in a firefight I was only thinking about him, so that I knew he didn't die for nothing.

Same goes to current situation in Iraq. I personally don't agree with Bush's policy, but I understand American soldiers, because they are given orders, and probably most of them believe in their cause; and they have the courage to do their job.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[soldierandy]

What can I say I stand corrected! However if you were in Special Forces you still were a volunteer weren't you? As an ex-member of an elite unit in my country I know that patriotism, motivation and comradeship exist to a much higher extent than conscript infantry for example. Can you please enlighten us with the attitude of conscripts during the Afghan war 16OBS? We hear a lot of rumours in the west about it. For instance that Soviet soldiers would sell rounds of ammunition to the mujahideen in exchange for food. They would boil the ammo first so that it wouldn't be able to fire of course. Were there defectors and soldiers going AWOL? Were parents of KIAs informed on where and how their sons died?

I sited many times that soldiers fight first and foremost for their comrades regardless of goverment. I just think that caring leadership and trust in goverment help.

[Russian Texan]

Ammo for food..., do you really believe in what you wrote or you are just posting stuff for the sake of conversation?

Ammo for food is ridiculous but equipment for money was quite real. I know one guy, very sleazy individual, who is a "businessman" in Ukraine. Well, he started his "business" career by selling food, various supplies, oil and car parts to the locals in Afganistan. He was something like "upper management" in a large supply depot/base, so tailoring papework to make numbers look right was no problem, plus he had multiple people in key areas "in share".
Example:
One of the locals approaches him and says that he needs a rear axle for a UAZ, he says - no problem and tells him when and where to meet him. They meet and the "businessman" offers local an entire UAZ instead of just rear axle, the local says that he doesn't need a UAZ but just an axle for it.
So the "businessman" dismantles an axle, sells it to the local and pushes UAZ off the cliff. When he comes back to base, he simply claims an accident and shares the profit with the right people, so no further investigation follows...
From what I heard that have happened a lot in Afganistan on all levels: soldiers, officers, generals, civilian personel. Although majority of it took place in the rear units stationed in/near cities, frontline troops had other things on their mind...
Going back to the food statement, where did you get it from? :)

[George W. Bush]

The exact opposite case was Afghanistan where soldiers didn't believe in Communism any more or to such an extent, their country wasn't under threat and didn't believe in their cause.


As a veteran of Afghan war, I strongly disagree with you on this matter.
When we were entering Afghanistan we thought that those people indeed needed our help.
There were numerous cases when soldiers did truly heroic things for what they believed in. There was never doubts about our job. We stopped believing our government when that traitor - Gorbachev, pulled us out of Afghanistan.

You have to understand, it is never about Communism or Democracy. It is about doing your job, and serving your country.

And most importantly, supporting your comrades in the field. The first time I lost my friend was back in Afghanistan. We served together in one platoon. After that, whenever I was in a firefight I was only thinking about him, so that I knew he didn't die for nothing.

Same goes to current situation in Iraq. I personally don't agree with Bush's policy, but I understand American soldiers, because they are given orders, and probably most of them believe in their cause; and they have the courage to do their job.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

Wow, you agree that it's ok to oppress simple Caucasus Muslim people who have NOTHING in common with Russians who's religion and tradition dictates that they be left alone but it's not ok to free oppressed people from a crazy socialist dictator who puts people thru plastic shredders.

[Russian Texan]

There were couple or so people who questioned the necessity of hand to hand combat training and stated that they weren't impressed by soldiers breaking stuff.
Ha :lol:
Guys, once you post here pictures of you breaking burning bricks and cinder blocks with your heads, hands, *****es and such, then I'll believe you... And please don't even bring up breaking dried up wooden boarda and sheets of plywood at your local martial arts school...
As it stands right now - you are just jelaous ;)
The purpouse of hand to hand combat training is confidence, discipline and ability to kill with bare hands - hardly irrelevant qualities in a combat situation, don't you think so...
Another thing is the psychological factor. Look at these pictures and ask yourself, would you really want to mess with these guys, seriously?
http://desantura.ru/4images/data/media/2/05.jpg

http://www.ukraineonline.net/chechnya/showofstrenght.jpg

I know I wouldn't and I am very confident SOB...

[George W. Bush]

I wouldn't but people who haven't seen these photos might want to mess with them :lol:

[Jack Mehoff]

It take years and years to be efficient in any form of MA. Those Russian soldiers in the pictures look like they been praciticing MA way before they got drafted in Russia's armed forces.

I can take a few pictures of U.S. Army Olympic Tae Kwon Do team doing all the fancy moves and claim that all U.S. soldiers are that bad ass.

[GazB]

"Examples like Vietnam prove my point that is why conscription ended in the US. "

I don't think conscription is a bad thing as such. Its purpose is defence. Unfortunately when it has failed it has been because it was used not in defence but in intervention. If your country is invaded then conscription is good. Having everyone in your population having some idea of how the military works is useful, having all of you men at least partially trained already is a good thing then. When mounting intervention in other countries is another thing.

"I was talking generally about armies in free countries and the ones in dictatorships whether communist or other."

I was just playing "Call to duty" a game where the latter stages of WWII are played out. You play American, British and Russian characters and it is quite exciting, though the rifle iron sights on the Russian Mosin Nagant rifle is wrong and you have to use a german luger pistol instead of a PP-33 and on the loading screen for the Russian missions the ammo depicted are 30-06 rounds. One of the most amusing features of the Russian missions was that you start out with 5 rounds of ammo and have to pick up a rifle. This idea was repeated in the movie "Enemy at the Gates". The reality is that the Communists did a much better job of preparing for WWII than the Tsars did for WWI. During WWI there was a severe shortage of rifles and whole units were sent into combat without any weapon at all. During WWII there were no such overall shortages. Even in Leningrad there were shortages of food, but they didn't run short of weapons. They even designed their own SMG the PPS-43.

To play the Cynic the American army doesn't shoot deserters... if they are women. (I remember during the operation in Grenada a General was asked about the performance of women and he stated they performed excellently. When asked about two women truck drivers that refused to enter the combat zone and do their job he described their performance as Excellent.)

"For instance that Soviet soldiers would sell rounds of ammunition to the mujahideen in exchange for food."

From what I heard it was more common that the Soviets negotiated truces and sometimes alliances with various groups by offering food and blankets for winter. The only thing the Rebels had that soviet soldiers might want was drugs.

"I just think that caring leadership and trust in goverment help."

Do you really think there are American soldiers busting their humps for oil rich Bush?

"Wow, you agree that it's ok to oppress simple Caucasus Muslim people who have NOTHING in common with Russians who's religion and tradition dictates that they be left alone but it's not ok to free oppressed people from a crazy socialist dictator who puts people thru plastic shredders."

Why not? The West did nothing to stop Saddam till he threatened their oil supply. BTW probably American made Plastic Shredders. Regarding the peace loving Chechens, it is hard living next to a superpower... ask the Mexicans, or Central and South Americans.

And that simple Causacus Muslim people so oppressed by democracy as practised in Russia were so thrilled at being left alone when Yeltsin gave them a loose autonomy the first thing they did was invade neighbouring Dagestan and try to impose sharia law and loot and steal. I feel so sorry for them. The really sad things is that a few muslim extremists have made life very hard for the rest of their population... but that is not important... they have the right to do it apparantly.

[Chris O`Crooh]

rofl :D The joke was great....

I know the other one:

US Marine looks at the VC POWs. He gazes at one of them, comes closer... gazes...
VC rises his head in jungle hat and asks:

Noo shto, ty wietnamtsa nie widieeu?? (Haven`t you seen a Vietnameese ever??)

[Kingpin]

:)
10 OBr SpN mentioned that in his brigade was people with Vietnam experience. May be in this joke is more truth than it seems at first look :)

[Russian Texan]

rofl :D The joke was great....

I know the other one:

US Marine looks at the VC POWs. He gazes at one of them, comes closer... gazes...
VC rises his head in jungle hat and asks:

Noo shto, ty wietnamtsa nie widieeu?? (Haven`t you seen a Vietnameese ever??)

rofl rofl rofl

Here is another one:

Israelis have surrounded arabs and offer them to surrender
The guy from an arab trench yells: "Arabski hlopci ne zdajutsya..." and throws the grenade at israelis....

"Arabski hlopci ne zdajutsya" = "Arab boys don't surrender" in ukranian.

[Javehn]

"Humanitarian aid , from the great brother" ? ;) :)


Those are soldiers in real meaning of the word , in personal meaning . Those aren't spoiled Europian soldiers that play "Game Boy" in a middle of guarding , having morality of kids from highschool . Those guys are soldiers , and commited ones. They maybe don't know how to keep fight in safe distance , but again , they are commited ones . Too bad those soldiers wasted in such **** army .