Army told to release abuse videos

[Secret Squirrel]

A judge has ordered the government to release four videos from Abu Ghraib prison and dozens of photographs from the same collection of photos that touched off the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal a year ago.

The federal judge issued the order late Wednesday requiring the Army to release the material to the American Civil Liberties Union to comply with the Freedom of Information Act.

The ACLU said the material would show that the abuse was "more than the actions of a few rogue soldiers."

Judge Alvin Hellerstein said the 144 pictures and videos can be turned over in edited form to protect the victims' identities. He gave the Army one month to release them.

The judge ordered the release after he viewed eight of the photos last week. They were given to the Army by a military policeman assigned to Abu Ghraib.

In October 2003, the ACLU filed a lawsuit seeking information on treatment of detainees in U.S. custody and the transfer of prisoners to countries known to use torture. The ACLU contends that prisoner abuse is systemic.

"These images may be ugly and shocking ... (but) the American public deserves to know what is being done in our name," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the ACLU.

So far, 36,000 pages of documents and the reports of 130 investigations, mostly from the FBI and Army, have been turned over to the ACLU.

The group is seeking documents from the CIA and the Department of Defense as well.

The judge said last week that he believed photographs "are the best evidence the public can have of what occurred" at the prison.

Government lawyer Sean Lane had argued that releasing pictures, even in redacted form, would violate Geneva Convention rules by subjecting the detainees to additional humiliation.

Lane did not immediately return a telephone message for comment Thursday.

link (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3209344)

[PhillyMobster]

Great. Just great. Now the media has managed to get the US looking bad through a fake Koran desecration story, and now they've dusted off Abu Ghraib YET AGAIN. Do these people WANT American soldiers to be hated???

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Do these people WANT American soldiers to be hated???The people involved should not have committed the acts and when I say this I also mean those silly British twats who abused Iraq's.

[Trigger]

Great. Just great. Now the media has managed to get the US looking bad through a fake Koran desecration story, and now they've dusted off Abu Ghraib YET AGAIN. Do these people WANT American soldiers to be hated???
uh, yes.

[Mailman]

Do these people WANT American soldiers to be hated???The people involved should not have committed the acts and when I say this I also mean those silly British twats who abused Iraq's.

Thats not whats at stake here though. No one denies that some sh1t happened BUT by giving this material to these rabid anti-american goons who will then publish the videos far and wide they are only creating more problems and the worst part about it is that people will get killed because of these publications.

No one is argueing that this sh1t shouldnt have happened because it shouldnt have. However the value of releasing such material for public consumption is questionable at best.

Regards

Mailman

[Laworkerbee]

Totaly agree with you Mailman

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

We know footage of abuse exists so why suppress it, if we do I feel the long term damage to our ethics could be much worse than anything the media could inflict now.

[PhillyMobster]

We know footage of abuse exists so why suppress it, if we do I feel the long term damage to our ethics could be much worse than anything the media could inflict now.

We know the abuse happened, so why keep flogging a dead horse, when certain people in the Middle East are just looking for reasons to hate us?

[DPGLAW]

God damn I ahte the ACLU......I hope something someday, and the sooner the better, really, really bad happens to that group to bring an end to their existence....now although any terror attack against America is a really bad thing but if there has to be an attack I am all for it being against the ACLU....;)

[Midav]

"These images may be ugly and shocking ... (but) the American public deserves to know what is being done in our name," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the ACLU.

Yeah, and the ACLU stands for a group called NAMBLA.

While the Army walks a few buggers on leashes and stacks 'em up in college'esque human pyramids, the ACLU calls that evil, yet stands for the raping of small children.

Common sense tossed out the window...

[WarriorMonk]

What's really interesting here though is that ACLU stands for American Civil Liberties Union...

AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union.

I didn't think they'd decide to wade into international law, let alone try and stand up for NON-AMERICAN citizens...

[Zoomie]

What's really interesting here though is that ACLU stands for American Civil Liberties Union...

AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union.

I didn't think they'd decide to wade into international law, let alone try and stand up for NON-AMERICAN citizens...
They've already done it in regards to the Mexicans and the Minutemen.

[ElHombre]

odd. in all this yammering i'm hearing, i haven't seen anyone mention a basic fact.

our government, acting in our name, has seen fit to break several laws. both our own and international ones we agreed to abide by. our government has lost almost every single court ruling on this on those rare times when it has been dragged into a courtroom to explain itself.

why hasn't anyone here bothered to ask why we are having all this trouble in the first place? if someone sees a law being broken, then they have a duty to report it to responsible authorities. the administration has broken the law, a court has merely said that US citizens have the right to know what its government is doing in their name. if the government is breaking the law, perhaps we should think about why these actions were taking place to begin with.

[Midav]

odd. in all this yammering i'm hearing, i haven't seen anyone mention a basic fact.

our government, acting in our name, has seen fit to break several laws. both our own and international ones we agreed to abide by. our government has lost almost every single court ruling on this on those rare times when it has been dragged into a courtroom to explain itself.

why hasn't anyone here bothered to ask why we are having all this trouble in the first place? if someone sees a law being broken, then they have a duty to report it to responsible authorities. the administration has broken the law, a court has merely said that US citizens have the right to know what its government is doing in their name. if the government is breaking the law, perhaps we should think about why these actions were taking place to begin with.

US citizens already know what happened. They are trying to increase ever more the tension on the Bush white house.

The left is making a huge deal about the Koran. They are making a huge deal about abu gharib. A US citizen gets his head chopped off, it doesn't make front page news. Some people get walked on a leash, it's considered what the Nazi's did in WW II.

A US aircraft bombs a wedding, it's in the news day in and day out.

A US aircraft bombs a bridge during the Kosovo campaign right as a train crosses, it's in the news a short time then is not heard of again.

Some US soldiers raped and killed girls in Kosovo, it's barely in the news.

Some US soldiers here act stupid and it makes front page.

It's a dirty game they are playing.

And btw, I could be wrong and correct me if I am, but the US did not sign the part about ununiformed combatants and terrorists in the GC when it was presented in the 1970's.

[Midav]

Something else I would like to mention: The ACLU has been against this from day one. They have even been against the Afghanistan operation afaik.

That is fine. Everyone is critical about something at one time or another. However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

[ElHombre]

However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

that's because the responsibility for coming up with solutions and following up with mistakes in their implentation rests with the POTUS and his administration. the laws of the US state that citizens shall have unrestricted access to their government. the first amendment states that they can inform the public of what their government is doing in their name.

if anyone is has opinions of what is going on in g-bay, then they can either criticize or support the ones responsible for it. in short, the president and his staff. and that's it.

[OMEGA7]

Something else I would like to mention: The ACLU has been against this from day one. They have even been against the Afghanistan operation afaik.

That is fine. Everyone is critical about something at one time or another. However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

in a word the ACLU is badness of administration ?

[Midav]

However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

that's because the responsibility for coming up with solutions and following up with mistakes in their implentation rests with the POTUS and his administration. the laws of the US state that citizens shall have unrestricted access to their government. the first amendment states that they can inform the public of what their government is doing in their name.

if anyone is has opinions of what is going on in g-bay, then they can either criticize or support the ones responsible for it. in short, the president and his staff. and that's it.

Anyone can up up with a solution. When they do not see something fit, they get lawyers to bring in a solution. They get involved in politics as well.

Another thing, they see fit to criticize the governemnt when they want to. What about the Kosovo campaign? I heard them 0 times on TV about that and innocents died.

Here, I don't know how many times a week I hear them.

They are not balanced. They are biased. We also already know what was happening at abu-gharib. Yet, they want to bring it up again and again and again.

You have to be ignorant to not see that.

[Midav]

And just to let you know where I stand on the issue, I really don't care what happened at abu gharib. I don't support ununiformed combatants and I do not support terrorists.

For all I care, they have no liberties.

This is how I see it: The ACLU sees a way to hurt the US, especially the present government, and they will continue in on this.

Instead of watching over the true civil liberties, they have their own agendas especially of them supporting a pedophile organization.

WTF?

I'm sorry, but the ACLU is sick organization.

[usa320]

the ACLU= American Communist Loonies Union.



I think the army oughta use the set of balls it has and tell the ACLU and the liberal piece of **** judge to go **** themselves, respectively.

[Secret Squirrel]

Something else I would like to mention: The ACLU has been against this from day one. They have even been against the Afghanistan operation afaik.

That is fine. Everyone is critical about something at one time or another. However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

What viable solutions would you expect if they dont have access to "everything"?

[Midav]

Something else I would like to mention: The ACLU has been against this from day one. They have even been against the Afghanistan operation afaik.

That is fine. Everyone is critical about something at one time or another. However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

What viable solutions would you expect if they dont have access to "everything"?

^^ That is just an excuse.

What else was the US supposed to do after 9-11? Oh we're sorry that our buildings were in the way...

[Secret Squirrel]

Something else I would like to mention: The ACLU has been against this from day one. They have even been against the Afghanistan operation afaik.

That is fine. Everyone is critical about something at one time or another. However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

What viable solutions would you expect if they dont have access to "everything"?

^^ That is just an excuse.

What else was the US supposed to do after 9-11? Oh we're sorry that our buildings were in the way...

It's called logic, look it up sometime. Any solutions put fourth would be pointless if you dont know what "resources" (or information) you're working with. It's not that hard to understand.

[Midav]

Something else I would like to mention: The ACLU has been against this from day one. They have even been against the Afghanistan operation afaik.

That is fine. Everyone is critical about something at one time or another. However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

What viable solutions would you expect if they dont have access to "everything"?

^^ That is just an excuse.

What else was the US supposed to do after 9-11? Oh we're sorry that our buildings were in the way...

It's called logic, look it up sometime. Any solutions put fourth would be pointless if you dont know what "resources" (or information) you're working with. It's not that hard to understand.

That is not logic. That is your opinion.

If you don't know both sides of the story, you shouldn't be taking sides to begin with, SS.

That, is logic.

[Secret Squirrel]

Something else I would like to mention: The ACLU has been against this from day one. They have even been against the Afghanistan operation afaik.

That is fine. Everyone is critical about something at one time or another. However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

What viable solutions would you expect if they dont have access to "everything"?

^^ That is just an excuse.

What else was the US supposed to do after 9-11? Oh we're sorry that our buildings were in the way...

It's called logic, look it up sometime. Any solutions put fourth would be pointless if you dont know what "resources" (or information) you're working with. It's not that hard to understand.

That is not logic. That is your opinion.

If you don't know both sides of the story, you shouldn't be taking sides to begin with, SS.

That, is logic.

It is logic. How you can logically ask someone to provide a viable solution when they dont have access to all the resources and information? ;)

[Midav]

*sigh* Now you're just trying to get in the last word to a failed argument on your part.

After this post of mine, be my guest, SS.

[Secret Squirrel]

*sigh* Now you're just trying to get in the last word to a failed argument on your part.

After this post of mine, be my guest, SS.

Well if you cant defend your "b.s point" anymore, then why even make this last post? ;)

oh i'm sorry, you wanted the last word? :lol:

[DPGLAW]

"These images may be ugly and shocking ... (but) the American public deserves to know what is being done in our name," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the ACLU.

Yeah, and the ACLU stands for a group called NAMBLA.

While the Army walks a few buggers on leashes and stacks 'em up in college'esque human pyramids, the ACLU calls that evil, yet stands for the raping of small children.

Common sense tossed out the window...

Definitely a good point...anyone and any group that could actually find enough justification to stand up for NAMBLA and stillallow oneself or the groups members to sleep at night should have that person and/or persons out and have them all shot in the face for that. Actively supporting child molesters, whatever the justification, should be a capital crime.

[abncougar]

I can't ****ing believe this ****. nothing i can type on this forum can express my hatred for the ACLU!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111 :bash: :backhand: :fork: :-*$

[abncougar]

Something else I would like to mention: The ACLU has been against this from day one. They have even been against the Afghanistan operation afaik.

That is fine. Everyone is critical about something at one time or another. However, the ACLU has yet to bring up a single solution to anything since 9-11-01.

What viable solutions would you expect if they dont have access to "everything"?

^^ That is just an excuse.

What else was the US supposed to do after 9-11? Oh we're sorry that our buildings were in the way...

It's called logic, look it up sometime. Any solutions put fourth would be pointless if you dont know what "resources" (or information) you're working with. It's not that hard to understand.

That is not logic. That is your opinion.

If you don't know both sides of the story, you shouldn't be taking sides to begin with, SS.

That, is logic.

It is logic. How you can logically ask someone to provide a viable solution when they dont have access to all the resources and information? ;)


EXACTLY, sooooooooooooooooo The ACLU should just on be involved at all................

Another point (im done capitalizing aclu) is that the aclu wanted the photos and vids released because "american people should know whats being done in our name". that is BS. we know what happened at Abu Graihb. you don't need more **** of it released, god damn, now im all rowled up and pissed off.


...maybe ill set the building on fire.....