More than 17500 US aerial victories

[2RHPZ]

Aces in the Sky

With more than 17,500 U.S. aerial victories, only the best airmen earned the title 'ace'

by Capt. Pamela A.Q. Cook

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces.jpg
A MiG-15 is in an F-86 Sabre’s sights before being shot down during the Korean War. Fast, maneuverable and heavily armed, the MiG-15 nevertheless proved no match for the F-86. One major reason for the claimed 10-1 kill ratio in favor of the Sabre was the superior training of U.S. Air Force pilots. The F-86 shot down the majority of enemy aircraft in the war.

What does it take to become the best of the best in aerial combat? Skill, determination, tenacity and — some would say — a bit of luck.


At least that’s what it seemed to take for 1st Lt. Douglas Campbell to score five confirmed victories. Campbell was the first U.S. Air Service pilot trained in the United States who became an ace.


According to Edward Rickenbacker in his World War I memoirs, “Fighting the Flying Circus,” Campbell arrived at the 94th Aero Squadron in France without any flying training. When he became the commander’s adjutant at the American Flying School at Issoudun, he found it difficult to break away to learn to fly. Though there were no beginner aircraft for initial training at Issoudun, Campbell was determined to earn his wings without the beginner’s course.


“Campbell learned to fly alone on a fast scout machine — a feat I do not remember any other American pilot having duplicated,” Rickenbacker wrote. Described as quiet and thoughtful while on the ground, Campbell went after enemy pilots like a tornado in the air.


On the morning of April 14, 1918, Campbell shot down his first two enemy aircraft. He and fellow pilot 2nd Lt. Alan Winslow were on alert at Gengoult Aerodrome near Toul, France. German planes were reported in the area, and the two inexperienced combat pilots took off in their Nieuport 28s. Almost immediately they saw two German aircraft and attacked them over the flying field at less than 1,000 feet, in full view of the Americans at the aerodrome and the French citizens of Toul. They shot down the two planes and were back on the ground in a matter of minutes. Rickenbacker wrote that this initial fighter combat by the U.S. Air Service, although probably successful due as much to luck as skill, convinced the French people that the Americans were “super-human.”

Article (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces.html)


Top 20th Century Aces (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/acessb3.html)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Col. Charles DeBellevue

Chuck DeBellevue was the first Air Force weapons systems officer to become an ace during the Vietnam War in 1972. He became America’s top “MiG Killer” in Vietnam when he and his F-4 Phantom pilot, Capt. John Madden, downed two MiGs, giving him six total, the most earned during the war.

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces6b.jpg
Capts. Steve Ritchie (left) and Charles DeBellevue prepare for a mission in their F-4 Phantom. They’re two of the three Air Force aces from the Vietnam War and each received a full credit for four of the same kills.

Link (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/acessb2.html)

[Lokos]

The Mig-15, when piloted by Soviets, was clearly a match for the F-86.

When piloted by badly undertrained Chinese/NK pilots, the quality of the plane didn't matter.

Lokos

[Roaming East]

correct you are. I was wondering if someone would pop in and yell 'Export model'

[b33f]

correct you are. I was wondering if someone would pop in and yell 'Export model'
rofl

[Lokos]

The actual performance differences between the two planes, when handled by trained pilots, weren't even worth debating over.

Lokos

[Adam Wilhelm]

Erich Hartmann- 352





p-)

[Morboute]

Erich Hartmann- 352





p-)

now thats an Ace. p-)

[fantassin]

The F-86/MiG-15 debate has been beaten to death so many times...

It's now understood the Cold War figures showing a clear advantage for the Sabre were blown out of proportion and that the final results were closer to a draw than to anything else when comparable things were compared.

You can also mention the Skyraider, still fitted with its bomb load, which shot down a MiG-17 in Vietnam; still, it's hardly representative...

[JoaMei]

Erich Hartmann- 352

But those were Russians pilots with non export Planes, cant be true.... LIES LIES LIES!!!1111ONE! p-)

[Adam Wilhelm]

Check out this page: http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/aces.html
When you read that list you will understand that the allied "aces" wasn´t so good. p-)

[Sergei]

Aces in the Sky

With more than 17,500 U.S. aerial victories, only the best airmen earned the title 'ace'

by Capt. Pamela A.Q. Cook

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces.jpg
A MiG-15 is in an F-86 Sabre’s sights before being shot down during the Korean War. Fast, maneuverable and heavily armed, the MiG-15 nevertheless proved no match for the F-86. One major reason for the claimed 10-1 kill ratio in favor of the Sabre was the superior training of U.S. Air Force pilots. The F-86 shot down the majority of enemy aircraft in the war.

What does it take to become the best of the best in aerial combat? Skill, determination, tenacity and — some would say — a bit of luck.


At least that’s what it seemed to take for 1st Lt. Douglas Campbell to score five confirmed victories. Campbell was the first U.S. Air Service pilot trained in the United States who became an ace.


According to Edward Rickenbacker in his World War I memoirs, “Fighting the Flying Circus,” Campbell arrived at the 94th Aero Squadron in France without any flying training. When he became the commander’s adjutant at the American Flying School at Issoudun, he found it difficult to break away to learn to fly. Though there were no beginner aircraft for initial training at Issoudun, Campbell was determined to earn his wings without the beginner’s course.


“Campbell learned to fly alone on a fast scout machine — a feat I do not remember any other American pilot having duplicated,” Rickenbacker wrote. Described as quiet and thoughtful while on the ground, Campbell went after enemy pilots like a tornado in the air.


On the morning of April 14, 1918, Campbell shot down his first two enemy aircraft. He and fellow pilot 2nd Lt. Alan Winslow were on alert at Gengoult Aerodrome near Toul, France. German planes were reported in the area, and the two inexperienced combat pilots took off in their Nieuport 28s. Almost immediately they saw two German aircraft and attacked them over the flying field at less than 1,000 feet, in full view of the Americans at the aerodrome and the French citizens of Toul. They shot down the two planes and were back on the ground in a matter of minutes. Rickenbacker wrote that this initial fighter combat by the U.S. Air Service, although probably successful due as much to luck as skill, convinced the French people that the Americans were “super-human.”

Article (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces.html)


Top 20th Century Aces (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/acessb3.html)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Col. Charles DeBellevue

Chuck DeBellevue was the first Air Force weapons systems officer to become an ace during the Vietnam War in 1972. He became America’s top “MiG Killer” in Vietnam when he and his F-4 Phantom pilot, Capt. John Madden, downed two MiGs, giving him six total, the most earned during the war.

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces6b.jpg
Capts. Steve Ritchie (left) and Charles DeBellevue prepare for a mission in their F-4 Phantom. They’re two of the three Air Force aces from the Vietnam War and each received a full credit for four of the same kills.

Link (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/acessb2.html)

Cheap american propaganda.

How come best Soviet aces have 23-24 shot down planes on their belt?
A guy who shot down 15 planes in Korea is my neighbor. It is very interesting to listen to his stories.

This 10-1 kill ratio is for children like you, who believe koreans and chinese can fly an airplane.

Also research the topic "MiG valley" and why B-29 pilots still **** their pants when they hear about MIG-15.

[Lokos]

American pilots did achieve 10-1 kill ratios against Chinese/North Korean fliers. The latter were badly, badly undertrained and inexperienced. Meanwhile, both the Soviet Union and the United States sent in their best pilots from WW2.

It was, basically, and for all intents and purposes, a showdown of aces.

Lokos

[Midav]

Aces in the Sky

With more than 17,500 U.S. aerial victories, only the best airmen earned the title 'ace'

by Capt. Pamela A.Q. Cook

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces.jpg
A MiG-15 is in an F-86 Sabre’s sights before being shot down during the Korean War. Fast, maneuverable and heavily armed, the MiG-15 nevertheless proved no match for the F-86. One major reason for the claimed 10-1 kill ratio in favor of the Sabre was the superior training of U.S. Air Force pilots. The F-86 shot down the majority of enemy aircraft in the war.

What does it take to become the best of the best in aerial combat? Skill, determination, tenacity and — some would say — a bit of luck.


At least that’s what it seemed to take for 1st Lt. Douglas Campbell to score five confirmed victories. Campbell was the first U.S. Air Service pilot trained in the United States who became an ace.


According to Edward Rickenbacker in his World War I memoirs, “Fighting the Flying Circus,” Campbell arrived at the 94th Aero Squadron in France without any flying training. When he became the commander’s adjutant at the American Flying School at Issoudun, he found it difficult to break away to learn to fly. Though there were no beginner aircraft for initial training at Issoudun, Campbell was determined to earn his wings without the beginner’s course.


“Campbell learned to fly alone on a fast scout machine — a feat I do not remember any other American pilot having duplicated,” Rickenbacker wrote. Described as quiet and thoughtful while on the ground, Campbell went after enemy pilots like a tornado in the air.


On the morning of April 14, 1918, Campbell shot down his first two enemy aircraft. He and fellow pilot 2nd Lt. Alan Winslow were on alert at Gengoult Aerodrome near Toul, France. German planes were reported in the area, and the two inexperienced combat pilots took off in their Nieuport 28s. Almost immediately they saw two German aircraft and attacked them over the flying field at less than 1,000 feet, in full view of the Americans at the aerodrome and the French citizens of Toul. They shot down the two planes and were back on the ground in a matter of minutes. Rickenbacker wrote that this initial fighter combat by the U.S. Air Service, although probably successful due as much to luck as skill, convinced the French people that the Americans were “super-human.”

Article (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces.html)


Top 20th Century Aces (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/acessb3.html)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Col. Charles DeBellevue

Chuck DeBellevue was the first Air Force weapons systems officer to become an ace during the Vietnam War in 1972. He became America’s top “MiG Killer” in Vietnam when he and his F-4 Phantom pilot, Capt. John Madden, downed two MiGs, giving him six total, the most earned during the war.

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/aces6b.jpg
Capts. Steve Ritchie (left) and Charles DeBellevue prepare for a mission in their F-4 Phantom. They’re two of the three Air Force aces from the Vietnam War and each received a full credit for four of the same kills.

Link (http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0803/acessb2.html)

Cheap american propaganda.

How come best Soviet aces have 23-24 shot down planes on their belt?
A guy who shot down 15 planes in Korea is my neighbor. It is very interesting to listen to his stories.

This 10-1 kill ratio is for children like you, who believe koreans and chinese can fly an airplane.

Also research the topic "MiG valley" and why B-29 pilots still **** their pants when they hear about MIG-15.

Exactly! A lot of those said kills were indeed bombers. The Migs never dared to venture south....

Let me rephrase that before someone takes it to literally.... seldom if ever...

[Lokos]

They were also instructed to stick to a particular area of operations, AFAIK (the Soviets, I mean).

Lokos

[Midav]

They were also instructed to stick to a particular area of operations, AFAIK (the Soviets, I mean).

Lokos

That is true. But that was only the Soviets and the eastern European satellites.

[Roaming East]

Lets remove scores for bomber kills and how many pilots during the Korean and Vietnam war would still be considered aces?
or do only fighter kills count towards being considered an ace?
Cause in my opinion dropping 15 B29's out of the sky but only 3 fighters before getting vaporized does NOT make one a better fighter pilot than a guy who goes through the whole war with only 7 fighter kills.
But im being subjective...

[iurtunc]

Check out this page: http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/aces.html
When you read that list you will understand that the allied "aces" wasn´t so good. p-)

wow thanks for that list. ive heard of Hartmann and Guenther Rall but never the # 2 guy Gerhard Barkhorn.

[Roaming East]

Basically what the list tells me when looking at total kills is that the Allies had better overall pilots because the sheer amount of kills were spread amongst a lot of the pilots were as the axis had fewer total kills that were spread amongst a few 'allstars' so to say. what were the other pilots doing? getting shot the hell down thats what

[Lokos]

Generally, in air combat, a few gifted individuals account for very disproportionate numbers of kills.

Lokos

[JoaMei]

Basically what the list tells me when looking at total kills is that the Allies had better overall pilots because the sheer amount of kills were spread amongst a lot of the pilots were as the axis had fewer total kills that were spread amongst a few 'allstars' so to say. what were the other pilots doing? getting shot the hell down thats what

Only the last 2 years of the war there was no Fuel and no time for training. And they were totally outnumbered.

[Roaming East]

meh, lets not forget that the European front was fought with both sides having fairly equal aircraft.

switch over to the Asian theatre and you see groups of US flyers totally outclassing their enemies with obsolete P40's and this was EARLY in the conflict. as the war went on better american pilots, not so much aircraft led to aerial dominance.

[Lokos]

I'd say that's true. The Americans managed to keep training large cadres of competent pilots throughout the war. The Germas and the Japanese, by 1944, were sticking pilots into cockpits within days of induction. Not exactly good for their health.

Lokos

[beNder]

basically, after american pilots were combat experienced, we would send them back to the states to train new pilots whereas the germans and japanese let their best pilots die at the front, thus not being able to pass on their knowlege...

[Coop]

switch over to the Asian theatre and you see groups of US flyers totally outclassing their enemies with obsolete P40's and this was EARLY in the conflict. as the war went on better american pilots, not so much aircraft led to aerial dominance.
Frankly speaking, I doubt Saburo Sakay would agree with you on this one.

Read his "Samurai" to learn if the US Army Air Force pilots were really outclassing anybody there "early" during the WWII....