Canadians Testing out New Sniper Rifles

[EvanL]

Were in the process of replacing our C3 sniper rifle and are testing out different types of rifles to replace it with.
Here are some of the pictures.
http://www.omegaproject.net/newage/MRSwCan2.jpg
http://www.omegaproject.net/newage/KevnCorey.jpg
http://www.omegaproject.net/newage/009.jpg
http://www.omegaproject.net/newage/010.jpg
http://www.omegaproject.net/newage/MRSwCan.jpg

[usa320]

Hows that compare to the US SPR?

It looks quite similar, appears to based off the M-16 design.

[EvanL]

Hows that compare to the US SPR?

It looks quite similar, appears to based off the M-16 design.
Actually its this
http://www.diemaco.com/images/sal-c7ct.gif

The standard Rifle C7CT 5.56 mm is a semi-automatic Custom Tactical weapon used to effectively engage targets to distances out to 600 metres. The heavy floating barrel, gas cut off, two stage trigger and many other features provide a consist ant platform that produces group sizes les than 1 minute of angle using NATO or heavy projectile ammunition. The C7CT can be configured to a range of customer specifications to satisfy any tactical requirements.



FEATURES


The C7CT incorporates a bipod, and an unchromed floating heavy barrel to enhance accuracy. It’s pistol grip and buttstock enhance shooter performance and comfort in tactical situations. The Weaver sight rail accommodates a wide range of day and night sighting options.

The buttstock is fitted with a removable weight to counter balance the additional weight of the heavy barrel for optimal performance. Additionally, bipods and slings are attached to the handguard, and do not influence the barrel.

The bolt carrier assembly has a titanium firing pin for faster locking time and compliments two stage trigger mechanism.

The CT barrel accommodated a removable noise and flash suppressor.

Additional Options: Butt Extension, Case, Sling, Pistol Grips, Butt Configuration, Gas Port Cut-Off System, Suppressor, System Camouflage, Bipods


TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

MODE OF FIRE
Semi - Automatic Only
BARREL
Hammer Forged

EMPTY WEIGHT
4.3 kg
BARREL LENGTH
0.5 m

LOADED WEIGHT
4.8 kg
RIFLING
Grooves 6

MAGAZINE CAPACITY
5/20/30 Rounds
RATE OF TWIST
1 in 178 mm

FULL MAGAZINE WEIGHT
0.5 kg
SIGHT
Optional

OVERALL LENGTH
1.0 m

[simple jumper]

Last i heard when my dad was talking with cdn snipers and writing a book the rifle seen is for the spotter, and by the way the first one is the C7CT (custom tactical) made by diemaco check out www.diemaco.com once ifigure out how to post pics i'll post a sweet pic of 2 cdn snipers in the US who were displaying the new arid cadpat uniforms and the spoteer in using that first rifle.
Damn i was beaten to the info giving...spoiled again!!!

[EvanL]

Last i heard when my dad was talking with cdn snipers and writing a book the rifle seen is for the spotter, and by the way the first one is the C7CT (custom tactical) made by diemaco check out www.diemaco.com once ifigure out how to post pics i'll post a sweet pic of 2 cdn snipers in the US who were displaying the new arid cadpat uniforms and the spoteer in using that first rifle.
Damn i was beaten to the info giving...spoiled again!!!
Gotta learn to be quicker on the draw mate. :lol: p-)

[simple jumper]

here's a pic that wa sin the CDN forces news paper, the guy on the left (with C7CT) is the spotter, and on the right (under the mesh with .50 cal macmillan) is the sniper, enjoy:

http://www.servicepub.com/richard.htm

[wholagun]

I recently watch the sniper challenge on OLN and Candaian spners were feared by the Americans. They kicked ass. The yanks said that the Canadians were tough to beat.

[maw]

that thing has mk12 mod0 written all over it. pri forearm, pri folding front sights, badger tac latch, etc. what rings in the last pic?

why do the canadians feel they need a .223 sniper rifle for their military?

[One?]

That rifle will be used by the "designated marksman" in the squad.

[FallenAngel]

That rifle will be used by the "designated marksman" in the squad.

I wonder about the use of 5.56 though. At least one American unit (82nd) found the 5.56 round to be lacking- especially in the designated marksman role. They bought a lot of M1As (semi-auto M14s) and issued them one per squad I believe.

[Skaman]

By what year are they looking for replacement Evan?

[One?]

These are the sniper rifles that are being tested to replace the C3
http://www2.sfu.ca/casr/101-c3repl.htm

[Falco]

That rifle will be used by the "designated marksman" in the squad.

I thought they were only to be used by the spotter a sniper team. I thought we didn't hane a DM in a squad.

[Minjin]

They are also looking at picking up the Timberwolf last I heard. Made by Prairie Gun Works in Winnipeg.

[ArmedPacifist]

I thought this would be a new design. It looked just like the usual modified copy of the SPR.

[Double Tap]

PGW TimberWolf 338 Lapua
http://www.prairiegunworks.com/4571fd30.jpg

[simple jumper]

the 5.56 (or .223) is fopr the spotter, cause if your in the **** getting shot at by lets say a section of small arms fire and your in afghan mountains with a .50 cal MacMillan you cant pop off hsots at a close range quickly and you dont want to be wasting ammo like that, therefor the spoter carries a C& (or C8 or in this case a C7CT) to my knowledge the C7CT is semi and full auto and is easier to use for quick shots like cdn snipers encountered in the Shai-i-Cot valley 2 years ago. It's not a "sniper rifle" its a backup weapon.

[[AFSOC]]

Canada should have the M14 in service...

[stuntman]

I recently watch the sniper challenge on OLN and Candaian spners were feared by the Americans. They kicked ass. The yanks said that the Canadians were tough to beat.
Canadians tough to beat? I give it to you guys, you are great soldiers but this canadian snipers feared by the Americans crap is just that CRAP! Any western army that trains nato style has great and equal (even to canadians) marksmen! so chill with the fear crap and just stick to the facts!
THANKS!

And a quick question for all you sniper heads out there. Why not just slap a long range scope on a c7 instead of making a whole other rifle that shoots the same round and has almost the same barrel lenth? I mean the c7 is as sound as a m16 and there both very accurate!

[One?]

I recently watch the sniper challenge on OLN and Candaian spners were feared by the Americans. They kicked ass. The yanks said that the Canadians were tough to beat.
Canadians tough to beat? I give it to you guys, you are great soldiers but this canadian snipers feared by the Americans crap is just that CRAP! Any western army that trains nato style has great and equal (even to canadians) marksmen! so chill with the fear crap and just stick to the facts!
THANKS!

And a quick question for all you sniper heads out there. Why not just slap a long range scope on a c7 instead of making a whole other rifle that shoots the same round and has almost the same barrel lenth? I mean the c7 is as sound as a m16 and there both very accurate!



Canadian snipers were requested by US officers on one of the missions in afghanistan. Canadian sniper shot a target at 2.4 KM (please correct the distance if I made a mistake). Canadian snipers rejected medals given by the US army. Canadian snipers won most of the sniper challeneges. :|


The C7CT has a range of 600m, unlike the C7.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

stuntman your wrong, Canadian soldiers do have the record for longest snipe ever made. I cant remeber the numbers but and how far the target was away but it was the longest shot made on record. They are well trained and very professional. If they are the best I do not know, but I do know us Canadians hold the record.

[EvanL]

stuntman your wrong, Canadian soldiers do have the record for longest snipe ever made. I cant remeber the numbers but and how far the target was away but it was the longest shot made on record. They are well trained and very professional. If they are the best I do not know, but I do know us Canadians hold the record.
Are sniper training program is the longest in the western world and most tedious. It is only 4weeks in the U.S. compared to i think 9 weeks in Canada.

[Shake n Bake]

Canadian snipers rejected medals given by the US army.





NO they weren't allowed to receive them

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/677454/posts

[Shake n Bake]

Pretty crummy treatment those canadian soldiers got there..

it was a slap in the face if you ask me

[EvanL]

Pretty crummy treatment those canadian soldiers got there..

it was a slap in the face if you ask me
They did get them eventually. But the snipers refused to have a ceremony saying they dont want publicity.

[One?]

Pretty crummy treatment those canadian soldiers got there..

it was a slap in the face if you ask me

would you mind explaining?

[EvanL]

Pretty crummy treatment those canadian soldiers got there..

it was a slap in the face if you ask me

would you mind explaining?
Actually One he is right. Our soldiers get treated pretty poorly by the government. They never get thanked for their service, and if they had their way rememberance day would have nothign to do with soldiers and veterans and rather just talk about how they are glad they rid us of our war mongering soldiers.

[stuntman]

stuntman your wrong, Canadian soldiers do have the record for longest snipe ever made. I cant remeber the numbers but and how far the target was away but it was the longest shot made on record. They are well trained and very professional. If they are the best I do not know, but I do know us Canadians hold the record.
When did I say that wasn't true? I agree it is true and a hell of a shot!

[redhawk_six]

I recently watch the sniper challenge on OLN and Candaian spners were feared by the Americans. They kicked ass. The yanks said that the Canadians were tough to beat.
Canadians tough to beat? I give it to you guys, you are great soldiers but this canadian snipers feared by the Americans crap is just that CRAP! Any western army that trains nato style has great and equal (even to canadians) marksmen! so chill with the fear crap and just stick to the facts!
THANKS!



FACTS:

-During the sniper challenge, American Snipers said that the Canadian team would be very difficult to beat, and that the Canadian snipers are amoung the best in the world. This included a sniper from the famed 5th SFG.

-There is no such thing as "nato style" training, every country trains diffrently, membership in NATO has nothing to do with training standards.

-Canadian Snipers dominate the sniper chanllege annually.

-Canadian snipers hold the record for longest distance sniping in combat.

-The Canadian sniper training program is the longest in the western world.

-US officers choose to request Canadian Snipers in A-Stan regularly.

I would like to request that you make sure your facts are straight before you make a post like that one. Patriotism is a good thing, in moderation, but when it drives your argument more than pure facts, it can lead to problems. Please, everyone, before posting, make sure your argument is based more on facts then personal bias.

[[AFSOC]]

You do realize 30 CAnadians of the 3PPCLI ended up recieving the Bronze Star right.

[oldsoak]

I wonder what they thought of the AI rifle in the test. Out of interest, how long is the Canadian sniper course ?
rgds

[pAt]

i think the sniper cource is around 3 months but its REALLY hard

[Flagg]

Getting past the "my dad can beat up your dad" BS, can someone answer the following question:

Would a 5.56MM designated marksman rifle use standard issue rounds, or would they use higher-spec rounds?

IF higher-spec rounds ARE used wouldn't it defeat the purpose of using a 5.56MM DMR since logistics is forced to carry 2 types of 5.56MM?

Why not just use a 7.62MM rifle like the M14 or SLR?

I would even argue that it's easier to hit accurately at 300+ meter with a 7.62MM than a 5.56MM in less than perfect conditions.

At the end of the day though...whatever the choice and the reasons why I think the designated marksman implementation is an excellent one and would LOVE to see it here....

[Chris196]

Hey look, its KevinB behind the trigger ;)

[simple jumper]

Actually the record kill (by canucks in shai-i-cot) was 2.437 metres and the snipers were requested by name before going to a-stan
and they did not receive bronze stars, instead they all received mentions in dispatch by the Governor General. And you cant receive 2 awards for the same act, 30 cdns did receive the bronze star though, mostly rear echelons ,and the families of the 4 soldiers of 3 PPCLI who were killed by the USAF :(

[pAt]

the C3 sniper rifle does she 7.62mm rounds but the thing is getting old so they need to replace it but i dought there going to use that one in the pic but i can ask my brother he knows a bunch of snipers that are in his unit

[maw]

a couple of points.
as a dmr, fine. but i'm not sure why the need for the 19.6" barrel. the .223/5.556 is not meant a long range cartridge. a 16" barrel will easily take you out as far as 600 yards.
this canadian authored document states that 18.25" is optimum and that 16" is best overall.
http://nightoperations.com/Doc/Infantry-Rifle-Carbine1.pdf
the document goes on to state that they'd like to wait for 6.8mm, i know the individual whose rifle is pictured at the bottom and he told me that they wanted to wait and see how the 6.8 performs before making any long term commitments regarding their next dmr.

good to see the canucks are seriously contemplating dumping the elcan and going with the acog.

it is a testimony to the sharp shooting doctrine used by the canadians that you see demonstrations of mom accuracy shooting 10(!) round groups at 900 meters on a b27 target out of a m4! that's a looong way for a .223/5.56.

with regards to the bolt gun evaluation, no doubt the ai desrves to be there. but its interesting to note the absence of the sako trg42 in .338lm. quite a glaring omission considering that sako's proven cold weather legacy. the blaser, wtf? fn hecate :cantbeli: ? ai it is then. the lack of the sako indicates that someone really wants the ai and brought the other rifles in for eval to make it look fair. ignore me, its late and i'm being cynical.

finally, not trying to detract, but it is my understanding that in the case of the 2.4km shot, the sniper was aiming at the engine block, missed and nailed the driver. sure it's a kill but...

[Dennis G]

what happend to that Canadian sniper in afghanistan that pinned a sign on a dead body that read "**** Terrorism" and had taken a photo? It was along time ago I could not find the article.



Its hard to explain but I find sniping to Amazingly complex not just the art of stalking & shoot but also the ability for a man to hunt another human I think what Eric Haney said about this skill says it.

About how there are a number of attributes you look for in a sniper. One being the “Texas Tower Syndrome” talking about Charles Whitman’s massacre of fourteen people from the bell tower of University of Texas in 1966. That characteristic manifest itself when a sniper starts shooting and he cant stop. It just feels so good---such an overwhelming sense of power that he cant turn it off. The second characteristic takes a much different, more understandable form. This one termed the “Munich Massacre Syndrome” When the Snipers find that they can not Kill the person in their cross hairs. The psychological niche where you’ll find the man who can shoulder aside these two behavioral opposites is very narrow. The ideal is a man who, from the safety of long range, can kill when the situation is resolved. A man whose psyche is strong and so fundamentally rooted in a personal philosophy or religion that he doesn’t suffer unduly from taking a human life under appropriate conditions.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3045&highlight=marine+snipers+w+photos


"Gentelemen, you have been selected... not because you are the meanest sons-of-a-bitches in the valley, nor was it for showin' off what a tough guy you are to the gang back on the block... not because you have muscles in your do-do, and not because you have the potential to become some sort of cold-blooded killer who would just as soon blow the eyes out of a baby as step on a bug.

"Your units selected each of you... because you are good Marines - men who are well disciplined... courageous...duty-bound...and loyal to your country and you Corps... in top physical condition, mentally sound and very patient. Each man here... has good moral character and a strong sense of values, among which he holds life sacred.

"When you go on a mission, there is no crowd to applaud you - no one for whom you can flex your muscles or show how tough you are... You have to be strong enough to physically endure lying in the weeds day after day, letting the bugs crawl over you and bite you, letting the sun cook you and the rain boil you, ****ting and pissing in your pants... because you know that Charlie's coming, and you're gonna kill him."
Cpt. E. J. Land,
co-founder 1st Marine Division Scout/Sniper School




Some Cool Photos

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/Sniper_Canadian_Afghanistan_2002_Feb_11_Van_SUN.jpg

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/sniper_kit_UK_1946.jpg

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/Sniper_Canadian_Afghanistan_2002_Feb_11_Van_SUN_wpn_layout.jpg

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/sniper_Para_WWII_trio_smoking.jpg

[pAt]

acutally heres whats replaceing the C3

http://www2.sfu.ca/casr/101-c3repl.htm

[fantassin]

PGM products, which are Swiss-designed but built in France.


That's bollocks; PGM used to be Franco-Swiss but the one swiss guy left the company long ago; it's now 100% French.

It has recently supplied PGM Hecate II .50 cal bolt action rifles to Poland's GROM and Austria's COBRA groups.

Here is the PGM website (French)

http://www.passpass.net/web/pgm/accueil.htm

[[AFSOC]]

They should get the good ole PSG-1:D

[TALOS]

finally, not trying to detract, but it is my understanding that in the case of the 2.4km shot, the sniper was aiming at the engine block, missed and nailed the driver. sure it's a kill but...

In the armory for the C-Scots in Victoria BC they have an article on the snipers and the kill.
2400+ metres(or yards, cant remember which) they were firing at Taliban in a bunker, the first round missed and was adjusted for and the second round killed the Taliban. Funny thing is it doesnt say why the Taliban didnt run after the first shot.

[mustamato]

Sako TRG-42

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sako_trg42.jpg

Caliber: 8.60x70mm (.338 Lapua)
Operation: Bolt Action
Barrel: 690 mm
Weight: 5.1 kg
Length: 1200 mm
Feed Mechanism: 5 round box mag.
Practical engagement range: 1300 meters
Country of origin: Finland (designed in co-operation with the army and their requirements)

From TRG-41 to TRG-42

[kinghk]

Sako TRG-41


TRG-42

Er du finsk eller svensk?

[mustamato]

Sako TRG-41


TRG-42

Er du finsk eller svensk?

Typo. I consider myself to be both finnish and swedish, speak both languages and so forth. But that was not why i posted the picture and specifications of that rifle, I just like the weight and power (range) of it. I have no experience with it myself but those that have usually love it.

[[AFSOC]]

Wow 53 out of 54 rifles that were test all met the standards in the CF. Crazy...

http://www2.sfu.ca/casr/c3repl3-3.jpg

The timberwolf was one of the most favorite by CAnadian Snipers that were testing


So close and yet so near’ – Tripping on the Replacement Finishing Line
The Timberwolf was the only trialled weapon able to meet the CF’s 1250m accuracy specification (exceeding the CF criteria with a 99% hit ratio). But, none of the contestants where able to meet the CF’s 800m requirement. The 800m spec would prove to be flawed, unfortunately. The result is that none of the designs demonstrated at Gagetown have been adopted by the CF. It remains to be seen whether completely new trials will be run, or whether the same contestants will be invited to participate in a revised 800m requirement. We may find that we need more than the C3A1 if ISAF moves out of Kabul.

[MarineSniper8541]

In my experience, (10 years as a combat sniper) I can say this:

Note that while this is my OPINION, it is however, also shared by many of my associates in the sniping community among several nations.

The top three sniper organizations in the world are:

U.S. Marine Scout/Snipers
Brittish Royal Marine Snipers
Canadian Snipers

I say this due to the training recieved, the method in which these organizations employ their snipers, the quality of sustainment training they receive, and the standard to which they hold thier snipers.

The U.S. Army does have good snipers and I am not selling them short in this post. However, the Army does not employ snipers as hunters like the other three I have mentioned here. The Army uses snipers in direct support of their combat units almost exclusively. The Army does not put their snipers through as extensive of a training curriculum as the other units when training them on the basic level. The Army does not even require their snipers to hit targets out to 1000 yards as part of the qualification course. They just have them shoot out to 1000 for familiarization. The Marines must be able to hit at 1000 or you dont qualify.
Granted, the M24 is inferior to the M40A3 and is only good out to 800 vice 1000 like the M40 but then, that just shows the priority and importance that the Army places on thier snipers, otherwise they would give them better weapons. These are just a few of the reasons but there are others.

This post is not here to start a pissing match. It just stating some simple facts.

[California Joe]

Oh sure bring real life experience into it. Jeez.

Technology wise there must be literally hundreds of different rifles out there that utilize composite stocks and custom tuned components that will shoot MOA consistently. Durability may be a factor but I would suggest that capable marksmen that know their weapon will always be able to make that shot.

[oldsoak]

I second that. I dont think you can buy a "bad" sniper rifle from any major player. The technology and the competition are that good.
rgds

[MarineSniper8541]

You are correct. Just about all of the major companies that put out sniper rifles, make good products. None of thier rifles are "bad" but there are certainly "better" ones out there.

Why the Army is still using the M24 is beyond me. It is a "good" rifle but there are better ones out there. The Marines have been building the best rifle in the world for decades and at a lot less cost than the Army pays for the M24 directly from Remington. But then again, we have always had to make better due with what we have than the Army has. You dont always get what you pay for. We learned that a long time ago. I'd take an obsolete $1500 M40A1 over a tricked out $3000 M24 any day of the week.

[[AFSOC]]

In the Marines is the qualification for your Marksman, Sharpshooter and Advanced Marksman the same??

Or its totally different?

In the US ARMY we have to shoot at least 23/40 to our marksman. At least 36/40 to get your advanced. You need that score in order to get into sniper school.

I know that in the CAnadian Forces there C7 qualifications seem more intense compared to teh M16 training in the US ARMY. I've talked to a few Canadian Soldiers and they've told me it requires a lot of piss running and stopping. I believe they runn several meters 3 times...to shoot standing up, in the crouching position and in the ****e.

soo for you Jarheads out there can you answer my question plz...:)

thanx

[Ratamacue]

I'm not sure of how it works, but I know that the USMC M16 qual is totally different from the Army.

[Salty Dog]

here's a pic that wa sin the CDN forces news paper, the guy on the left (with C7CT) is the spotter, and on the right (under the mesh with .50 cal macmillan) is the sniper, enjoy:

http://www.servicepub.com/richard.htm

thats nice camo.

[Salty Dog]

]In the Marines is the qualification for your Marksman, Sharpshooter and Advanced Marksman the same??

Or its totally different?

In the US ARMY we have to shoot at least 23/40 to our marksman. At least 36/40 to get your advanced. You need that score in order to get into sniper school.

I know that in the CAnadian Forces there C7 qualifications seem more intense compared to teh M16 training in the US ARMY. I've talked to a few Canadian Soldiers and they've told me it requires a lot of piss running and stopping. I believe they runn several meters 3 times...to shoot standing up, in the crouching position and in the ****e.

soo for you Jarheads out there can you answer my question plz...:)

thanx

the marines shoot from farther (or further) distances than the army does. that, i know. but trigger puller, marine sniper, or maybe james could tell you alot more.

[MarineSniper8541]

Our M-16 course is different from the Army's yes. I belive the actual course of fire has changed slightly since I got out in 2001 but when I did, the score required for expert was, I beleive a 40 with a max score of 60.

The qual course for sniper school is a 35 round course with 5 rounds fired from the 400 yard line all the way out to the 1000. Each yard line consists of 3 stationary and 2 movers including bobbers, stop and go and left to right movers. The targets are half-sillouetts with thier shoulders and arms trimmed off in such a way that you dont get credit for a hit unless the round hits the center mass portion of what would be a human head or torso. You must score at least a 28 out of 35 to qualify. You get three chances to shoot the course and qualify. If you dont score at least a 28 on one of the three strings of fire...you are dropped from the school. No acceptions.

[[AFSOC]]

wow... thanx dude

Thats strict as hell...