Mystery Helicopter

[flickme]

I recently visited Fort Rucker and went to this museum on base. There is this helicopter outside with 3 props. 1 main roter blade, a tail rotor blade, and a prop on the back like on a boat. It was being developed at the same time as the A10 and was going to be used as a tank killer. I just cant remember the name. If anyone can refresh my memory it would be allot of help. Thanks.

[AFACadet]

AH-56A Cheyenne

[flickme]

Duh. Now i remember. Thanks.

[Deuterium]

There is one at the FT Campbell outdoor musuem also if I remember correctly.

[buckeyedoc]

AFACadet beat me to the punch. I remember seeing this aircraft. Here are a few pics.

http://www.internetage.com/cartercopters/othercraft/ah56a-lc1.jpg

http://www.internetage.com/cartercopters/othercraft/ah56a-museam1.jpg

[DPGLAW]

Man, that helicopter looks like it is ass backwards.....has to be the funniest looking thing I have ever seen as far as helicopters go....just a quick question....did that helicopter ever enter service?? If so, when? and was it in any conflicts, if so , which one(s)?? Thanks

[AFACadet]

--did that helicopter ever enter service?

no

[Fox2]

It was the competitor against the AH-1 Cobra as the Army's first attack chopper. I believe they did the whole trial shindig, and in the end chose the AH-1 for a reason unknown to me. The Cheyenne kinda looks like it'd be faster than the Cobra. :D

Here's a good analogy to keep it all short: The AH-56 is to the AH-1 as the YF-23 is to the F-22.

[flickme]

i thought it was in copetition against the A10 as a tank buster. It was being developed at the same time. It was also extremely fast. Around 400 knots. Still the second fastest helicopter in the world i believe. It was too far ahead of its time. It was made almost completely of metal and was too heavy. I think they are discussing about bringing it back into testing and making it out of composite materials.

[James]

It was the competitor against the AH-1 Cobra as the Army's first attack chopper. I believe they did the whole trial shindig, and in the end chose the AH-1 for a reason unknown to me. The Cheyenne kinda looks like it'd be faster than the Cobra. :D


I think they went with the Cobra because it was (is) basically a skinny UH-1 Huey. The latest models of both, which the USMC is still using, are something like 70% the same as far as engines, avionics, etc. If someone has more accurate info, please advise.

[NcDeuce]

Damn that thing is ugly!

[usa320]

You are all wrong.

The Cobra was developed mainly for the marines and export.

The AH-65 Chyenne was developed in competition to the AH-64 Apache for the Army's new Anti-tank helicopter slated to replace older model cobras and huey gunships.

Both the Ah-65 and 64 prototypes built on lessons learned in Nam, incorporating TV guided weapons, night sensors, meanuevarbility, speed and more armor.

[Merik]

You are all wrong.

The Cobra was developed mainly for the marines and export.

The AH-65 Chyenne was developed in competition to the AH-64 Apache for the Army's new Anti-tank helicopter slated to replace older model cobras and huey gunships.

Both the Ah-65 and 64 prototypes built on lessons learned in Nam, incorporating TV guided weapons, night sensors, meanuevarbility, speed and more armor.


The AH-56 Cheyenne was a prototype attack helicopter developed to replace the AH-1 Cobra. It never went into production. The Army -- in cooperation with industry -- began developing the AH-56 Cheyenne and the AH-64 Apache during the final years of the Vietnam conflict. The Army's development of specifically designed attack helicopters during the 1970s again raised the question of Army and Air Force aerial missions. By this time, the Air Force was content to permit the Army to continue developing helicopters.

The experience of Vietnam showed that the existing attack helicopter, the AH-1 Cobra, was vulnerable even to light antiaircraft fire and lacked the agility to fly close to the ground for long periods of time. The AH-56A Cheyenne helicopter was intended to correct those deficiencies.

The Lockheed AH-56A Cheyenne attack helicopter was designed to meet the U.S. Army's requirement for the Advance Aerial Fire Support System (AAFSS). The helicopter's mission would eventually be assumed by the Boeing (formerly McDonnell Douglas) AH-64 Series Apache attack helicopter. The AAFSS, which began in 1964, was won by the Lockheed AH-56A Cheyenne. Bell entered a scaled-down version of it's Iroquois Warrior. The other competitor was the Sikorsky (S-66) (1964) which looked similar to the AH-56A Cheyenne, but had a Rotorprop tail rotor which could rotate on it's axis throught 90° to act both as an anti-torque rotor or as a pusher, thereby transforming the S-66 into a compound aircraft in cruising flight.

The AH-56 was essentially a flying tank built around rigid rotor system. This remarkable compound helicopter relied on a pusher propeller and a set of wings to achieve speeds greater than 322 kph (200 mph). The rigid-rotor Cheyenne, with a crew of two, featured a XM112 swiveling gunner's station linked to rotating belly and nose turrets, and a laser range-finder tied to a fire control computer. It was armed with an XM52 30mm automatic gun in the belly turret and a XM51 40mm grenade launcher or a XM53 7.62mm Gatling machine gun in the chin-turret, TOWs, and XM200 2.75 inch rocket launchers. The Cheyenne had a single rigid four-bladed main rotor and anti-torque tail rotor, and a three-bladed pusher. The Cheyenne was powered by one General Electric T64-GE-16 3435 shp turbine engine. The AH-56A had a maximum speed of 214 knots, cruise speed of 197 knots, a service ceiling of 26,000 feet, maximum range of 547 nautical miles, and could climb 3,420 feet per minute.

Lockheed rolled-out the first prototype on May 3, 1967. Because of the advanced technologies in the AH-56 Cheyenne, the program ran into serious delays and cost overruns. Unfortunately, the Cheyenne experienced developmental difficulties with some of the new technology it employed. Thus, Congress was severely critical of the program. However, advocates of the AH-56 Cheyenne argued that the program was about to succeed, but it would still take several years for this aircraft actually to go into the field and help soldiers on the ground. Eventually, Lockheed had eliminated nearly all of the bugs but the Cheyenne languished under an awkward procurement process put in place by Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara.

By the time the aircraft was ready for production in 1972, the Army was becoming interested in a helicopter with night and all-weather attack capability - a requirement that was not included in the Cheyenne contract. Congress then cancelled the program at a significant financial loss to Lockheed. Ten prototypes were completed before the program was terminated August 9, 1972 due to delayed development, rising costs, and the appearance of two competitive company-funded initiatives by Sikorsky and Bell. Most Cheyenne airframes ended up at Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

The Army wanted a smaller, more agile Advanced Attack Helicopter (AAH) with a less complicated fire control and navigation system. The new attack helicopter program announced in August 1972 drew from the combat experience of the Cobra and the developmental experience of the Cheyenne to specify an aircraft that could absorb battle damage and had the power for rapid movement and heavy loads. The helicopter would have to be able to fly nap of the earth and maneuver with great agility to succeed in a new antitank mission on a high-intensity battlefield. In December 1976 the Army selected the Hughes YAM-64 for production.

Oh and the Cobra was never designed form the Marines and export, only the U.S. Army at first. The Marines never took interest in it until the Army actually bought it and figured out it was worth it because of thier UH-1 Gunships were getting to be kinda pointless in using if the Cobra was in.

[Fox2]

Damn that thing is ugly!

I think it's slick. :D

[usa320]

Thanks Merik.

[Tane Angle]

That'd be interesting to see using modern materials and systems.

[Merik]

I dont want to sound like Im bragging cause Im not but my Dad is a retired Army pilot and for years he has been trying to get the Army to refurbish the survivng air frames of the Cheyenne and put new avionics, wiring, etc. in them because the thing is a helluva lot better than the Ah-64. Most of the weapons systems for the Apache desend from the Ah-56 program and the research Lockheed put into it. But its faster than any existing helicopter in our inventory and probably the world, so with the speed its pumping out a "stealth" helicopter has competition in the air. The funny and sad part about the Cheyenne is that the Air Force is really the ones that got it killed because of the A-10, especially since they have a four-star in the pentagon and no one has ever heard of a four-star Army Aviator to allow projects such as the Ah-56 to exist.

[Tane Angle]

If that will keep the aircrews and the folks on the ground a little bit safer, sounds like a great idea.