Wiesel @ KFOR

[seventy6er]

Hi,

here are some pics of the Fallschirmjäger-company equipped with Wiesel MK20 and TOW; this company was deployed with the 1st contingent of KFOR in 1999.

http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/001.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/002.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/003.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/004.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/005.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/006.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/008.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/010.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/011.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/012.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/013.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/015.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/kfor/016.jpg

[mustamato]

I love the looks of this vehicle. Since I am not german and have no plans to be (unless you invade us that is) then I will not have any experience
with these vehicles either. The only one is with a Wiesel from Operation Flashpoint but I don´t think that counts. :)

http://www.warfaregames.com/mods/ofp_Wiesel_Pack3.jpg

76er. Can you give your opinions about the vehicle, and what the germans in general (especially the crews and so forth) think of it? There are many versions of course, but the 20 mm version has a crew of two,
hum with a commander that acts as a gunner as well. Usually that is considered as a bad thing, on the Wiesel as well?

[seventy6er]

76er. Can you give your opinions about the vehicle, and what the germans in general (especially the crews and so forth) think of it? There are many versions of course, but the 20 mm version has a crew of two,
hum with a commander that acts as a gunner as well. Usually that is considered as a bad thing, on the Wiesel as well?

I really can't say too much bout the Wiesel. I've only seen the Mk20 and the TOW-version. What I can say is that those "baby-tanks" are highly mobile, really fast - just like a weasel is supposed to be ;)

Like I mentioned in another thread - they are formidable suited for their role (giving air-borne troops a high mobility and firepower on the ground). I can't say anything about the "commander = gunner - issue".

[Chris O`Crooh]

I don`t think that it`s bad, the crew of 2 in Wiesel...

Commander is a gunner, ok, but this is an automatic cannon, so you don`t need a loader.

Look at Wiesel as the scout helo that doesn`t fly... :D It`s like "groundborne" ;) Cobra, with driver and gunner, that has "shoot where you look" possibility.

76er, what is doctrine of Wiesel?? Are they pure scout vehicles, with a gun for self-defence, or thay are to engage some targets?

[seventy6er]

76er, what is doctrine of Wiesel?? Are they pure scout vehicles, with a gun for self-defence, or thay are to engage some targets?

The Wiesel gives our airborne-troops more mobiliy and some kind of anti-armour-capabilities. Our Fallschirmjäger have 343 Wiesel1 (in configuration MK20 and TOW). The Bundeswehr also has the Wiesel2 in different versions: MedEvac, Ozelot (AA-version equipped with Stinger) and quite some more...

[Javehn]

Just some strange question - does all those KFOR SFOR units participated in combats , or what were they doing there ?

[Thomsen]

Just some strange question - does all those KFOR SFOR units participated in combats , or what were they doing there ?

SFOR means "Stabilization FORce", not "Combat Force". ;)

They only fight when they are attacked. If there are some arrests on war crime suspects e.g., they only have an assisting function.

[Javehn]

Ok , i know that SFOR is Stabilization force .
I just asked if they saw (KFOR or SFOR) some action . I heard somewhere here , that some Danish tank units have engaged in serious fights in Bosniya .

[seventy6er]

Only minor shootouts with Serbians during KFOR.

[Marmot1]

Ok , i know that SFOR is Stabilization force .
I just asked if they saw (KFOR or SFOR) some action . I heard somewhere here , that some Danish tank units have engaged in serious fights in Bosniya . Well polish GROM had some clash with serbs when they tried to capture one of war criminals... i will try to find some info.

http://www.blarg.net/~whitet/grom.htm

GROM


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Although a new unit, (created in 1991) Poland's GROM has worked hard and diligently at becoming a first class Counter-terrorist unit. GROM operators are pulled from Poland's Special warfare community--both army (1st Commando Regiment) and naval combat diving forces . GROM is very protective of its operators; as such, the units numbers and order of battle are classified.
However, it is believed that they have around 270 members. It is known that GROM operates in four-person teams, each team being a hightly proficient and cohesive unit. Women are also present in GROM, but due to security reasons, their functions are unknown (although it is believed they are routinely involved in intelligence gathering and stakeouts). All members of a team are fully trained as combat assault personnel.

Realizing the possibility of casualties in an assault, fully 75% of GROM operators are certified paramedics or nurses. In addition, there are several medical doctors attached to the unit.These doctors also act as combat assault personnel, carrying their medical kits along with their assault weapons. In addition, each GROM operator is expected to know at least two languages.

Grom also has fully functioning support teams, ranging from technicians and analysts to EOD (Explosives Ordinance Disposal) personnel. Many of the people running these support teams are ex-operators themselves who have been injured enough to lose their assault status or are too old to participate in the assaults but want to continue serving. These former operators bring and maintain experience and skills.

All training is done with live ammunition. GROM operators are known as excellent markmen (markspeople??). Weapons include the HK MP-5 9mm submachinegun family, and the indigenous Tantal 5.45mm assault rifle. Personal sidearm selection is left up to the individual. Snipers are equipped with either the HK PSG-1 or Mauser 86 7.62mm rifles.

Poland is blessed with a very diverse and changing terrain, because of this, operators train in different settings and locations. Urban as well as alpine and mountainous settings are used. In addition, because of Poland's many ports, GROM personnel are trained in maritime operations and are fully SCUBA qualified.

Because of their dedication and skill (particularly in the VIP protection arena) GROM was selected in 1994 to take part in Operation Restore Democracy, the American led invasion of Haiti. Fifty-five troopers were sent to train with members of the US 3rd Special Forces Group in Puerto Rico. There, they were educated in Haitian politics and social systems ad allowed to acclimate to the climate.

Upon deployment to Haiti, GROM operators provided security for several important VIPs, including UN General Secetary Buthros Buthros Ghali and US Secretary of Defense William Perry. One VIP, Lalhdar Brahimi, had a $150,000 bounty placed on his head by groups who opposed Aristede's return.

In one incident, GROM operators were stopped by a mob of slum dwellers; a boy had been taken hostage by a group of heavily armed gunmen. With the help of US. Army Military Police, the operators were able to storm the building (extinguishing a fire that had started in the process) and free the boy.

Because of the ability and professionalism displayed by its members, US Major-General David C. Meade awarded Colonel Slawomir Petelicki (GROM's creator and commander) the Army Commendation medal; the first time in American history that a foreign unit has been commended in such a manner.

Recently, 50 GROM operators have deployed to Bosnia in support of the Polish battalion stationed there. They succesfully pulled of a prisoner snatch of a Bosnian national suspected of war crimes in June of 1998.

well that is info from 1998 there is more info about this fight but it is dificult to find



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[Macs.]

Ok , i know that SFOR is Stabilization force .
I just asked if they saw (KFOR or SFOR) some action . I heard somewhere here , that some Danish tank units have engaged in serious fights in Bosniya . Well polish GROM had some clash with serbs when they tried to capture one of war criminals... i will try to find some info.
The SF are not part of the KFOR (or SFOR).
The KSK had operations in Bosnia, too. (as far es I remember, but it's to hard to find pics. :-( )

[Marmot1]

Ok , i know that SFOR is Stabilization force .
I just asked if they saw (KFOR or SFOR) some action . I heard somewhere here , that some Danish tank units have engaged in serious fights in Bosniya . Well polish GROM had some clash with serbs when they tried to capture one of war criminals... i will try to find some info.
The SF are not part of the KFOR (or SFOR).
The KSK had operations in Bosnia, too. (as far es I remember, but it's to hard to find pics. :-( )

Well i dont know if they were there as KFOR /SFOR mut they worked under their command... and most of this is clasified so it is dificult to say...

In autumn, 1994, Poland was prepared to deploy 51 members of the GROM to Haiti 6 hours after the Polish government decided to assist the UN mission on the island. The unit was tasked to protect international dignitaries sent to Haiti to implement the democracy restoration program. These dignitaries included UN Secretary General Butrus-Ghali, U.S. Secretary of Defense William Perry, UN Special Representative Lakhdar Brahimi, and several U.S. senators and high-ranking military officials. In 1997, the GROM became the first unit in the former Yugoslavia (Slavonia) to arrest a suspected war criminal. Slavko Dokmanovic, known as the "Butcher of Vukovar," was apprehended without a shot being fired, despite the presence of his security service.

(well AFAIK that wasn't without a shoot... but it is still clasified and I have only info that leaked to press...)

More recently, the GROM protected the chief of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) mission, Ambassador William G. Walker, on his visit to Kosovo. It is said that Ambassador Walker personally asked for GROM soldiers to serve as his bodyguards. This choice could have been influenced by the fact that the Poles understand Serbian and Croatian. Apparently, the GROM has participated in other operations as well, but details have not been revealed due to security concerns.

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Poland/Unit_Profile.htm

They worked there as a support for SFOR... so it count as a SFOR clash ;-)

[Javehn]

Does Poland troops participated in the first UN tours in Bosnia ? Interesting . Yes , i actually heard that GROM considered to be one of the best SpecForces in Europe ( and read about it in funny Russia-vs-Poland thread ) .

However , i am looking more about ground encounters , and less special forces , or Air operations .