CIA says Iraq is now a terrorist training ground

[Sharp]

WASHINGTON (*******) - The CIA believes the Iraq insurgency poses an international threat and may produce better-trained Islamic terrorists than the 1980s Afghanistan war that gave rise to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, officials said on Wednesday.
A classified report from the U.S. spy agency says Iraqi and foreign fighters are developing a broad range of skills, from car bombings and assassinations to coordinated conventional attacks on police and military targets, officials said.

Once the insurgency ends, Islamic militants are likely to disperse as highly organized battle-hardened combatants capable of operating throughout the Arab-speaking world and in other regions including Europe.

Fighters leaving Iraq would primarily pose a challenge for their countries of origin including Saudi Arabia and Jordan.

But the May report, which has been widely circulated in the intelligence community, also cites a potential threat to the United States.

"You have people coming to the action with anti-U.S. sentiment ... And since they're Iraqi or foreign Arabs or to some degree Kurds, they have more communities they can blend into outside Iraq," said a U.S. counterterrorism official, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the report's classified status.

Canada also released an intelligence report saying the Sunni insurgency in Iraq posed a global problem given that most of the world's Sunni Muslims live outside the Middle East.

"The current war in Iraq is creating a whole new set of extremists," the Canadian Security Intelligence Service said in a briefing document obtained by *******.

Meanwhile, a Pentagon official said the CIA report appeared to be a synthesis of intelligence information already known to military commanders in the Gulf region.

Iraq has become a magnet for Islamic militants similar to Soviet-occupied Afghanistan two decades ago and Bosnia in the 1990s, U.S. officials say.

Bin Laden won prominence as a U.S. ally in the war against Soviet troops in Afghanistan. He later used Afghanistan as the training center for his al Qaeda network, which is blamed for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on Washington and New York.

President Bush justified the invasion of Iraq in part by charging that Saddam Hussein was supporting al Qaeda. A U.S. inquiry later found no collaboration between prewar Iraq and the bin Laden network.

[EvanL]

Iraq war breeds more terrorists
CSIS: Battle-hardened jihadists pose threat 'for years to come,' Canada's spy agency warns

James Gordon
The Ottawa Citizen

June 22, 2005

The ongoing war in Iraq is creating a new set of battle-hardened jihadists poised to carry out terrorism "for years to come," and Canadians won't be immune to their attacks, Canada's spy agency warns.

At the same time, tens of thousands of more experienced, al-Qaeda-trained mujahedeen are spread around the world, forming new groups and recruiting adherents to an increasingly amorphous extremist cause.

"These veterans have been responsible for attacks post-9/11 and are continuing their plans for future operations," according to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS). "They act as mentors for aspiring jihadists."

That assessment forms part of a background document prepared for the agency's new director in February. It was released to the Citizen yesterday under access to information laws.

The CSIS characterization of Iraq as a source of future extremism contradicts the position of the United States government, which has always insisted military action there is advancing its "war on terrorism."

Michel Juneau-Katsuya -- an ex-senior CSIS agent-turned national security consultant in Ottawa -- says Canada should be wary of the Iraq situation, but adds any success by terrorists there in exporting their brand of bombing and suicide violence is unlikely.

"One of the easy-access things they have over there is an enormous amount of weapons and explosives, but that's a little challenging when you come to the western world," he says. "Does it mean that we're safe from it at this point? No ... there are other guys still planning very imaginative actions like we saw with 9/11."

University of Toronto security and intelligence professor Wesley Wark calls the Iraq situation a magnet for Islamist groups, but takes issue with CSIS's assertion it's creating new terrorists.

"The interesting question is whether Iraq has proved to be any kind of new breeding ground for terrorism, of which I'm doubtful," Mr. Wark says. "I'm not sure that Iraq has added to or diminished the strength and capability of foreign terrorist forces operating against the United States."

Mr. Wark argues the Iraq experiment has been a double-edged sword for the U.S.: Because al-Qaeda and other forces are concentrated there, it may in effect be preventing attacks on U.S. soil. Mr. Juneau-Katsuya dubs it a "pseudo-blessing."

The partially censored CSIS report also discusses Canadian domestic issues, concluding the country isn't immune to the spread of terrorism. Of the thousands it says convert to Islam each year in this country, "a few" take up the radical form.

Converts are generally "valued for their ability to blend into their communities and circulate freely without fear of detection, especially with western passports."

Many are recruited in prison, but the advent of the Internet, and the propaganda that flows through it, is boosting the number of people who join the jihad of their own volition.

"The Internet is being used to increase the awareness of regional conflicts that pit Muslims against non-Muslims, the globalization of Muslim suffering and the distribution of of selective Islamic history glorifying the heroism of martyrs," the report says.

Canada ranks fifth among "Christian nations" al-Qaeda considers targets of opportunity, according to training materials cited by the report.

The country trails only the United States, Britain, Spain and Australia.

The CSIS document also describes how al-Qaeda has evolved from a tangible entity with a sophisticated infrastructure pre-Sept. 11, 2001, to a galvanizing idea now.

"The elimination of its geographical base and the arrest/deaths of some of its leadership and senior cadre has led to a radical transformation," it reads. "Al-Qaeda is not what it once was. As an 'organization,' it no longer exists."

Instead, the spy agency opines, it has morphed into an "ideology/phenomenon."
© The Ottawa Citizen 2005

[Nightsky]

The difference, though, is, that Afghanistan had no central government, and the taleban, which kinda harboured Osama et al, came closest to it.

Thus Afghanistan provided some kind of haven for training, which Iraq is not and will not be.

I'm not implying, that it doesn't affect the "terrorist world", but it's certainly different from Afghanistan.

N.

[ElHombre]

whether a gov't is supporting it or not, the terrs are still getting trained. they are now going to various countries where they will be able to put that training to use.

[KB]

No news in this report...no central government, long borders impossible to effectively guard, munitions readily available, permissive environment in which to operate, and a target rich environment.

[abncougar]

:cantbeli:

[Nizark]

well hey, at least bush can now say...'see! told you there were terrorists there!'

[abncougar]

well hey, at least bush can now say...'see! told you there were terrorists there!'



we already have proof of that, so why would he need to say it again?? oh yeah, libbies are hard of hearing, need everything repeated for them

[Secret Squirrel]

well hey, at least bush can now say...'see! told you there were terrorists there!'



we already have proof of that, so why would he need to say it again?? oh yeah, libbies are hard of hearing, need everything repeated for them

you mean repeated so the propaganda can sink in? rofl

[Clarsachier]

Wonder how many more OBL's 'w''s war created.

[GrantT]

CIA says Iraq is now a terrorist training ground


And we knew that how many months ago? rofl

[vote for Pedro]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

[Hoplite_V]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

Exactly.

Terrorist wanna-be's can either shoot at paper targets or shoot at "reactive" targets.

It's the perfect live fire range for them. People are flocking to Iraq from all over.

[JoaMei]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

Exactly.

Terrorist wanna-be's can either shoot at paper targets or shoot at "reactive" targets.

It's the perfect live fire range for them. People are flocking to Iraq from all over.

And only the best survive...

[catalyst]

i see only two things that can happen from this....

1) the terrorist flock to iraq and get a massive ass kicking...stamping out the islamic terrorism that has been growing in the 90 and since 9/11

or

2) The US is forced to withdraw its troops due to politcal concerns from the homefront and the terrorists overwhelm the new Iraqi government.

[Rictor]

It will probably be something in between, but leaning towards the latter. The US can not destroy the insurgency, even with the help of a potentially armed and trained Iraqi corp. So it comes down to who can last longer. And considering that the US is spending billions of dollars a month, losing troops at an ever-more rapid pace, and that political support for the war is slowly eroding, my bet is that the insurgents can just wait it out. They have nothing to lose, don't require an elaborate infrastructure to sustain them, and are fighting with really passion, which neither the Americans nor the Iraqi police/military have.

[usa320]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

good. Its easier to kill em when they are all in one place.

[EvanL]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

good. Its easier to kill em when they are all in one place.
you know this from personal experience right?

[vote for Pedro]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

good. Its easier to kill em when they are all in one place.

I don't know, unfortunatley they seem to be doing a lot of the killing. (last I checked, 1,916)

[Roaming East]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

good. Its easier to kill em when they are all in one place.

I don't know, unfortunatley they seem to be doing a lot of the killing. (last I checked, 1,916)

almost 3 years of conflict and thats their claim to fame? It seems like the culmination of giving the jihadis what they want, A chance to kill Americans. While also giving the Americans what they want, a chance to gather their enemies around them to be destroyed wholesale. The individual terrorist dont seem to be learning from their mistakes at a strategic level ie NOT wasting joe blow Muhommad on the street so as to have better public support. An insurgency requires alot of help from a sympathetic public and if recent news of armed Iraqi civvies rising up to enter their own shooting matches proves as true as armed conflict within the insurgency itself well....

[Hoplite_V]

It's not about bodycounts anymore guys.

Look at vietnam. That war was centered around attricion and look athow well it worked. According to the official US death toll of enemy in vietnam we would have killed the entire country 10 times over.

2000 soldiers in 3 years not a big deal?
What about the billions and billions of dollars spent or the thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians killed there. There world is in a state of fear when it comes to terrorisim. The terrorists, witgh our help, have put an umbrella of fear over the world.
The war isn't about body counts, it's about governments loosing the faith and support of their citizens. Thats how we lost vietnam.

People are afraid to fly. People travel less and less to countries who's economy is based on tourisim, aid workers are targeted stopping us from doing the humanitarian thing which leads to more suffering among poor countries.
I don't consider that a big F.

[Roaming East]

I was simply providing a counter point to the idea that the US has loss almost 2000 soldiers in what the wars detractors love to point out as continued major combat operations over a span of 3 years and attempt to use that number regardless of its significance as evidence of the US's supposed failure in Iraq. What we dont here about however is how the Iraqi government is finally getting its sh*t together and how infrastructure is improving daily.
I dont support the war in way outside of volunteering my services now that we ARE engaged, but to consistantly dwell on failures and not learn to utilize the successes reeks of fatalism and schadenfreude

[ElHombre]

i see only two things that can happen from this....

1) the terrorist flock to iraq and get a massive ass kicking...stamping out the islamic terrorism that has been growing in the 90 and since 9/11/quote]

the terrs flock to iraq and strike at a time and place of their choosing. that's called having the initiative and it's a major ingedient in winning wars. we have to respond to their attacks.

[quote]2) The US is forced to withdraw its troops due to politcal concerns from the homefront and the terrorists overwhelm the new Iraqi government.

ah, yes. 'political concerns'. the ability of the citizens of a democracy to decide that a conflict is not worth the lives of their own sons and daughters. perhaps if this were a monarchy...

[usa320]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

good. Its easier to kill em when they are all in one place.

I don't know, unfortunatley they seem to be doing a lot of the killing. (last I checked, 1,916)

yeah, which is nothing compared to the number of ****tard hajis that have been waxed. ****, the Marines have killed more hajis in 3 days than US troops have died over the past 3 years.

I mean i dont understand how people expect to win a war without having some losses... For what has been done so far, and for the length of time weve been engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan, its remarkable that the number isnt in the double digit thousands. I mean tens of thousands of men gave their lives in world war II and we still won. It sucks people have to die in a war, but its part of war, and people sometimes have to sacrifice if we want to win. I think the media durring the 1990's gave the view of war as firing a dozen cruise missiles at undefended mudhuts. We as a country forgot the sacrifices involved in war.

We are winning the war. The media just doesnt want anyone to realize that.

Alot of people lately have gone limp wristed.

[wholagun]

you know it was the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan that created Al Qaeda and Osama bin laden, the US war in Iraq is doing the same and creating more terrorists .

by killing one terrorist you just pissed of his family and friends and they will want revenge.

I don't think that the war on terror can ever be won, altough it hope Im dead wrong.

[CountZero]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

good. Its easier to kill em when they are all in one place.

I don't know, unfortunatley they seem to be doing a lot of the killing. (last I checked, 1,916)

yeah, which is nothing compared to the number of f*** hajis that have been waxed. ****, the Marines have killed more hajis in 3 days than US troops have died over the past 3 years.

I mean i dont understand how people expect to win a war without having some losses... For what has been done so far, and for the length of time weve been engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan, its remarkable that the number isnt in the double digit thousands. I mean tens of thousands of men gave their lives in world war II and we still won. It sucks people have to die in a war, but its part of war, and people sometimes have to sacrifice if we want to win. I think the media durring the 1990's gave the view of war as firing a dozen cruise missiles at undefended mudhuts. We as a country forgot the sacrifices involved in war.

We are winning the war. The media just doesnt want anyone to realize that.

Alot of people lately have gone limp wristed.

true althought i dont think that the american public has the stomach for massive losses a la ww2

[usa320]

The situation in Iraq is absurd. Terrorists are comming in there from all over to get live fire training against the US.

good. Its easier to kill em when they are all in one place.

I don't know, unfortunatley they seem to be doing a lot of the killing. (last I checked, 1,916)

yeah, which is nothing compared to the number of f*** hajis that have been waxed. ****, the Marines have killed more hajis in 3 days than US troops have died over the past 3 years.

I mean i dont understand how people expect to win a war without having some losses... For what has been done so far, and for the length of time weve been engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan, its remarkable that the number isnt in the double digit thousands. I mean tens of thousands of men gave their lives in world war II and we still won. It sucks people have to die in a war, but its part of war, and people sometimes have to sacrifice if we want to win. I think the media durring the 1990's gave the view of war as firing a dozen cruise missiles at undefended mudhuts. We as a country forgot the sacrifices involved in war.

We are winning the war. The media just doesnt want anyone to realize that.

Alot of people lately have gone limp wristed.

true althought i dont think that the american public has the stomach for massive losses a la ww2

yep... thats what i fear. And i blame the media. They should have kept the ****ers with the cameras out or at least restricted ala gulf war I.

[Roaming East]

you know it was the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan that created Al Qaeda and Osama bin laden, the US war in Iraq is doing the same and creating more terrorists .

by killing one terrorist you just pissed of his family and friends and they will want revenge.

I don't think that the war on terror can ever be won, altough it hope Im dead wrong.

Well what the hell can we do now? we have garnered their hate and it sure as hell aint gonna go nowhere. If we pulled out of MidEast right now and cut every arab in the world a $10,000 check they would still want us dead and would still pursue terrorist goals. the only way for Americans to be 'liked' or whatever over there is for everyone of us to eat a gun. I'd rather shoot back. Life sucks but there doesnt seem like a lot we can do about it at this stage in the game

[fletch]

hey because censorship is so american. And any was, who needs the media when the american people can always trust what they are being told by the government because politicians are very trustworthy people.