Christmas in the Trenches 1914

[Kitsune]

I am more than a week too late with this :( but have you ever heard of the Christmas truce (or "little piece") in the trenches of flanders 1914 ?

http://history1900s.about.com/library/weekly/aa122100a.htm

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/christmas_1914_and_world_war_one.htm

http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Humanities/History/By_Time_Period/20th_Century/Military_History/World_War_I/Christmas_Truce_of_1914/

It is perhaps something one should remember every Christmas.

[mustamato]

Well it seems that most wars are just to due to the fact that the politicians in either, or both countries are a bit lost. The ordinary soldiers (atleast in drafted armies) doesn´t seem to have much hate for his enemy, the ordinary grunt on the other side. In professional armies it seems to be a bit different where you seem to be able to hate anyone and kill them just because your countries politicians are idiots and tell you that those are baaad baaaad people. :|

Can´t see much hate in these pictures:

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4106SotavankiSaaHoitoa.jpg
Wounded russian soldier gets some nursing from finnish soldiers in June 1941

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4108SortavalaVallattu%26Ven%E4l%E4inenVanki.jpg
Sortavala is reconquered. Russian prisoner of war plays accordion to
Finnish soldiers in August 1941

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/41LapatossuJaSotavanki.jpg
Artist Aku "Lapatossu" Korhonen entertain Finnish soldiers and Russian
prisoner of war in summer 1941.

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4111BunkkerinTyhjennyst%E42.jpg
Russian soldiers surrendered november 1941. Although they look
scared due to propaganda about how the finns treated POW´s, I am
confident in that they were treated good.

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Jatkosota/Rintama/4409ViipuriAselevonHetki.jpg
Former enemies exchanging remembrances after the cease-fire, September 1944.

[Deuterium]

Well it seems that most wars are just to due to the fact that the politicians in either, or both countries are a bit lost. The ordinary soldiers (atleast in drafted armies) doesn´t seem to have much hate for his enemy, the ordinary grunt on the other side. In professional armies it seems to be a bit different where you seem to be able to hate anyone and kill them just because your countries politicians are idiots and tell you that those are baaad baaaad people. :|

Can´t see much hate in these pictures:



Well that's pure BS... PURE BS..... I don't care what a politician or military leader tells me who the enemy is. In the end I have to believe in the cause, believe he is a enemy, and ultimately make the case in my mind that this person must die. That's me making the decision not someone else, ME. Now granted a person shooting at me allows for a much quicker mental algorithm. That being said what the f*ck do think we are, f*ckin robots???..... You're full of sh*t... Sorry you pissed me off with that trite hackneyed liberal bull****..... F*ckYou and the horse you rode in on.....

[Beowulf]

Well it seems that most wars are just to due to the fact that the politicians in either, or both countries are a bit lost. The ordinary soldiers (atleast in drafted armies) doesn´t seem to have much hate for his enemy, the ordinary grunt on the other side. In professional armies it seems to be a bit different where you seem to be able to hate anyone and kill them just because your countries politicians are idiots and tell you that those are baaad baaaad people. :|

Can´t see much hate in these pictures:



Well that's pure BS... PURE BS..... I don't care what a politician or military leader tells me who the enemy is. In the end I have to believe in the cause, believe he is a enemy, and ultimately make the case in my mind that this person must die. That's me making the decision not someone else, ME. Now granted a person shooting at me allows for a much quicker mental algorithm. That being said what the f*ck do think we are, f*ckin robots???..... You're full of sh*t... Sorry you pissed me off with that trite hackneyed liberal bull****..... F*ckYou and the horse you rode in on.....

^What he said.

[mustamato]

Well that's pure BS... PURE BS..... I don't care what a politician or military leader tells me who the enemy is. In the end I have to believe in the cause, believe he is a enemy, and ultimately make the case in my mind that this person must die. That's me making the decision not someone else, ME. Now granted a person shooting at me allows for a much quicker mental algorithm. That being said what the f*ck do think we are, f*ckin robots???..... You're full of sh*t... Sorry you pissed me off with that trite hackneyed liberal bull****..... F*ckYou and the horse you rode in on.....

Haha. Well you know, opinions are like assholes, everyone got one etc etc. Drafted armies are in most cases (such as in ours) just mobilized to defend against an invading army. I live in a great country, a democracy, a rich country which allows me to sit here and waste my time and all that crap, and if Ivan, Sergei, Igor and all those mates (even if it were you) would invade us I wouldn´t have any difficult time making up my decision about whether to fight for all that I think is great, such as being able to sit here and write to you (after we kicked your butts out if it was you that was coming). But I do know that I would have quite a difficult time to convince myself with that those Iraqis are my enemies. Yeah maybe Saddam was, but he is gone now. And those fighting you over there just want to be able to decide for themselfes. Who am I then to come from the other side of the globe and saying no to them, and if they didn´t hear me the first time putting a bullet in their forehead?

But maybe I´m just covering my asshole.... eeerh I mean opinion :)

[Deuterium]

Well that's pure BS... PURE BS..... I don't care what a politician or military leader tells me who the enemy is. In the end I have to believe in the cause, believe he is a enemy, and ultimately make the case in my mind that this person must die. That's me making the decision not someone else, ME. Now granted a person shooting at me allows for a much quicker mental algorithm. That being said what the f*ck do think we are, f*ckin robots???..... You're full of sh*t... Sorry you pissed me off with that trite hackneyed liberal bull****..... F*ckYou and the horse you rode in on.....

Haha. Well you know, opinions are like assholes, everyone got one etc etc. Drafted armies are in most cases (such as in ours) just mobilized to defend against an invading army. I live in a great country, a democracy, a rich country which allows me to sit here and waste my time and all that crap, and if Ivan, Sergei, Igor and all those mates (even if it were you) would invade us I wouldn´t have any difficult time making up my decision about whether to fight for all that I think is great, such as being able to sit here and write to you (after we kicked your butts out if it was you that was coming). But I do know that I would have quite a difficult time to convince myself with that those Iraqis are my enemies. Yeah maybe Saddam was, but he is gone now. And those fighting you over there just want to be able to decide for themselfes. Who am I then to come from the other side of the globe and saying no to them, and if they didn´t hear me the first time putting a bullet in their forehead?

But maybe I´m just covering my asshole.... eeerh I mean opinion :)

Well you certainly DO have an opinion. The only advice I have to you is to get to know an Iraqi or better yet Iraqis. The picture that the press portrays of doom and gloom is just as inaccurate as the honey and roses picture the military (me) would like you to believe. The truth is Iraq is on a balance scale right now. Iraqis MUST continue to take control of their country, Iraqis MUST continue to help the coalition the ferret out those that stand in the way of progress, and Iraqis MUST continue to have faith in the fact that they will control their destiny. Iraqis CAN win this battle. The Kurds took control of their destiny many years ago and the picture in the north of Iraq is awesome to experience. Unlike you, it seems from my perspective, I have faith in the Iraqi people. They are just like you and me. They want their Internet, their families, and their MTV.

[James]

To get back to the topic -

I do know about the Christmas truce in Flanders in 1914. One must remember that warfare was quite different back then - WWI was really the first "Total War", but in 1914 many people looked at it almost as one would watch a football game today. That changed after a few years, but in 1914 almost all of the British troops in Flanders and most of the Germans were professionals or reservists who had been professionals. I don't think that any of them were conscripts. I don't know so much about the Germans at the time, but the Brits were men who had fough in India and South Africa. Being a soldier was a job. Politicians said, "Well, we are now at war with Germany." Tommy Atkins said, "Very well, send me to Belgium, and I will do my best to defeat the invading German Army."

They took a break on Christmas 1914, meeting each other in no man's land, sharing food, tobacco, and drink. They knew full well that they would be in action against each other very soon. When the British high command heard about this, they were very upset. The unofficial truce ended, and the Brits and the Germans went on to slaughter hundreds of thousands of each others countrymen before the war ended in 1918.

It was like calling "Time Out" during a childs game.

It was a different time.

[oldsoak]

I've heard stories about Christmas 1914 in the trenches. I think most people were very religious in those days and killing on Christmas day was not the done thing. You saving that for boxing day. Maybe thats how it got its name. :) I dont think we had ever had a punch up with the Germans until WW1. If anything we expected a war with France as a more likely possibility. The world wars were always a paradox to me - how could countries as cultured as those in Europe ever get to visit such destruction on each other. It does seem so indicative of that age, that on that Christmas day, British tobacco was exchanged for German schnapps and chocolate by the meek and lowly while the high and mighty drew plans for butchery. Did the French do the same thing anyone ? I've only ever heard of the Brits and Jerries doing it.

[[AFSOC]]

To get back to the topic -

I do know about the Christmas truce in Flanders in 1914. One must remember that warfare was quite different back then - WWI was really the first "Total War", but in 1914 many people looked at it almost as one would watch a football game today. That changed after a few years, but in 1914 almost all of the British troops in Flanders and most of the Germans were professionals or reservists who had been professionals. I don't think that any of them were conscripts. I don't know so much about the Germans at the time, but the Brits were men who had fough in India and South Africa. Being a soldier was a job. Politicians said, "Well, we are now at war with Germany." Tommy Atkins said, "Very well, send me to Belgium, and I will do my best to defeat the invading German Army."

They took a break on Christmas 1914, meeting each other in no man's land, sharing food, tobacco, and drink. They knew full well that they would be in action against each other very soon. When the British high command heard about this, they were very upset. The unofficial truce ended, and the Brits and the Germans went on to slaughter hundreds of thousands of each others countrymen before the war ended in 1918.

It was like calling "Time Out" during a childs game.

It was a different time.

Its called Humanity....

They didnt feel that had to fight at that time. It wasnt just Brits, it was also Canadians and other countries of the allies

[ChuckThunder]

]
To get back to the topic -

I do know about the Christmas truce in Flanders in 1914. One must remember that warfare was quite different back then - WWI was really the first "Total War", but in 1914 many people looked at it almost as one would watch a football game today. That changed after a few years, but in 1914 almost all of the British troops in Flanders and most of the Germans were professionals or reservists who had been professionals. I don't think that any of them were conscripts. I don't know so much about the Germans at the time, but the Brits were men who had fough in India and South Africa. Being a soldier was a job. Politicians said, "Well, we are now at war with Germany." Tommy Atkins said, "Very well, send me to Belgium, and I will do my best to defeat the invading German Army."

They took a break on Christmas 1914, meeting each other in no man's land, sharing food, tobacco, and drink. They knew full well that they would be in action against each other very soon. When the British high command heard about this, they were very upset. The unofficial truce ended, and the Brits and the Germans went on to slaughter hundreds of thousands of each others countrymen before the war ended in 1918.

It was like calling "Time Out" during a childs game.

It was a different time.

Its called Humanity....

They didnt feel that had to fight at that time. It was Canadians and Germans actually...jeez

You sure about that?

[[AFSOC]]

]
To get back to the topic -

I do know about the Christmas truce in Flanders in 1914. One must remember that warfare was quite different back then - WWI was really the first "Total War", but in 1914 many people looked at it almost as one would watch a football game today. That changed after a few years, but in 1914 almost all of the British troops in Flanders and most of the Germans were professionals or reservists who had been professionals. I don't think that any of them were conscripts. I don't know so much about the Germans at the time, but the Brits were men who had fough in India and South Africa. Being a soldier was a job. Politicians said, "Well, we are now at war with Germany." Tommy Atkins said, "Very well, send me to Belgium, and I will do my best to defeat the invading German Army."

They took a break on Christmas 1914, meeting each other in no man's land, sharing food, tobacco, and drink. They knew full well that they would be in action against each other very soon. When the British high command heard about this, they were very upset. The unofficial truce ended, and the Brits and the Germans went on to slaughter hundreds of thousands of each others countrymen before the war ended in 1918.

It was like calling "Time Out" during a childs game.

It was a different time.

Its called Humanity....

They didnt feel that had to fight at that time. It wasnt just Brits, it was also Canadians and other countries of the allies

[Minjin]

The Canadians and Germans also had a game of soccer (or some such sport) too before returning to their trenches.

[[AFSOC]]

I've heard stories about Christmas 1914 in the trenches. I think most people were very religious in those days and killing on Christmas day was not the done thing. You saving that for boxing day. Maybe thats how it got its name. :) I dont think we had ever had a punch up with the Germans until WW1. If anything we expected a war with France as a more likely possibility. The world wars were always a paradox to me - how could countries as cultured as those in Europe ever get to visit such destruction on each other.

Ask the same thing about the War in Iraq to yourself...

In WWI was triggered by many reason such as the Balkan Powder Keg, the assassination of the Austrian king that was commited by the "Black Hand" i believe they were called. That led to Austria declaring war on Serbia because the "Black Hand" were serbs.

Because it Austria-Hungary were allies wit the Germans...the Germans began backing up the Austrians. Then the Germans began invading France and what not. This led to the Brits who were allies wit the French to declare war on Germany. Because Canada is a colony of the British Empire this led to CAnada to declare war on Germany also this goes for the other commonwealth countries too.

Then in 1917 the second last year of the war the Americans decided to come aboard the "Great War" because one of there commercial boats i believe was sunk by a German sub. This rallied up the American public thus leading them into War.

In my opinion its because humans are destructive i hate to say, but it is the truth. Thats why **** ends up getting soo bad....

[James]

]

In WWI was triggered by many reason such as the Balkan Powder Keg, the assassination of the Austrian king that was commited by the "Black Hand" i believe they were called. That led to Austria declaring war on Serbia because the "Black Hand" were serbs.

Because it Austria-Hungary were allies wit the Germans...the Germans began backing up the Austrians. Then the Germans began invading France and what not. This led to the Brits who were allies wit the French to declare war on Germany. Because Canada is a colony of the British Empire this led to CAnada to declare war on Germany also this goes for the other commonwealth countries too.

Then in 1917 the second last year of the war the Americans decided to come aboard the "Great War" because one of there commercial boats i believe was sunk by a German sub. This rallied up the American public thus leading them into War.


Eh, the history of World War one requires more than three paragraphs. I can go into very great detail if you like. Let me know.

[Roger Rabbit]

M14, you sort of left out the bit about the Russians supporting the Serbians and agreeing to fight with them in the case of war, and the Triple Entente which basically meant that if Germany attacked Russia/France/Britain then all three of these countries would declare war on Germany.

There were several passenger ships sunk by the Germans which had Americans amongst other civlians on board. Although there is now evidence to suggest those ships may have been carrying war materials onboard as well.

As James said, the events leading up to World War 1 cannot be explained accurately in three paragraphs. It helps to go back nearly a hundred years and start from there. eg. Why the Serbs wanted freedom from the Austro-Hungarian Empire etc etc

[[AFSOC]]

yea i know, i wanted to cut it short...i dunt have all day you know!

[Undo]

Well it seems that most wars are just to due to the fact that the politicians in either, or both countries are a bit lost. The ordinary soldiers (atleast in drafted armies) doesn´t seem to have much hate for his enemy, the ordinary grunt on the other side. In professional armies it seems to be a bit different where you seem to be able to hate anyone and kill them just because your countries politicians are idiots and tell you that those are baaad baaaad people. :|


Hey, I know, let's hijack a thread to paint every soldier in a professional army everywhere in the world with one brush. Brilliant.

You, my friend, may want to put more time into thinking before typing. If you wish to advance some personal agenda, start your own thread. If you wish to stereotype, well, you do whatever makes you feel superior. Please feel free to judge me, as I was a professional soldier once. Brainwashed and everything. I never thought twice about those I was forced to destroy or the families they left behind, except to hate them, of course. Because I was a professional soldier and we all know what that means... :roll:

Anyway,

I always thought that the Christmas armistace was one of humanity's finest and most humbling moments. People being butchered by the hundreds of thousands and yet the soldiers doing it were overwhelmed by thier compassion for each other. I think the wholesale slaughter of WW1 would have to be totally dehumanizing.
I don't think the attitudes of that incident are that far removed from today's fighting man, professional or conscript.

[AFG]

IIRC during christmas eve they exchanged christmas carols in their native tongues while in their trenches...

[NcDeuce]

Well that's pure BS... PURE BS..... I don't care what a politician or military leader tells me who the enemy is. In the end I have to believe in the cause, believe he is a enemy, and ultimately make the case in my mind that this person must die. That's me making the decision not someone else, ME. Now granted a person shooting at me allows for a much quicker mental algorithm. That being said what the f*ck do think we are, f*ckin robots???..... You're full of sh*t... Sorry you pissed me off with that trite hackneyed liberal bull****..... F*ckYou and the horse you rode in on.....

Haha. Well you know, opinions are like assholes, everyone got one etc etc. Drafted armies are in most cases (such as in ours) just mobilized to defend against an invading army. I live in a great country, a democracy, a rich country which allows me to sit here and waste my time and all that crap, and if Ivan, Sergei, Igor and all those mates (even if it were you) would invade us I wouldn´t have any difficult time making up my decision about whether to fight for all that I think is great, such as being able to sit here and write to you (after we kicked your butts out if it was you that was coming). But I do know that I would have quite a difficult time to convince myself with that those Iraqis are my enemies. Yeah maybe Saddam was, but he is gone now. And those fighting you over there just want to be able to decide for themselfes. Who am I then to come from the other side of the globe and saying no to them, and if they didn´t hear me the first time putting a bullet in their forehead?

But maybe I´m just covering my asshole.... eeerh I mean opinion :)

Well you certainly DO have an opinion. The only advice I have to you is to get to know an Iraqi or better yet Iraqis. The picture that the press portrays of doom and gloom is just as inaccurate as the honey and roses picture the military (me) would like you to believe. The truth is Iraq is on a balance scale right now. Iraqis MUST continue to take control of their country, Iraqis MUST continue to help the coalition the ferret out those that stand in the way of progress, and Iraqis MUST continue to have faith in the fact that they will control their destiny. Iraqis CAN win this battle. The Kurds took control of their destiny many years ago and the picture in the north of Iraq is awesome to experience. Unlike you, it seems from my perspective, I have faith in the Iraqi people. They are just like you and me. They want their Internet, their families, and their MTV.

Amen

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I've always regarded this kind of thing as really bizarre. It's just like when Muslim countries fight each other - they have an unwritten rule not to fight on the holy days. As if killing is any better or worse on any particular day. I remember seeing something about the Germans & British in North Africa not attacking each other if a soccer game was being played.

Hand to hand killing - like in WWI is a different thing than modern combat. Releasing a bomb or firing artillery disconnects the killer from the killed. They never actually see the human result of their actions. It's one reason why the Marines & others spend so much time training in hand-to-hand combat. They get the soldiers to respond automatically, in a series of well rehearsed moves, almost without thinking. It helps alleviate the horror of grinding the life out of another human. People are hard to kill - it's not like the movies. There's spurting blood, screaming & writhing, - it takes a lot of work to finally make them stop. They found that prior to this training, many troops hesitated and were in turn killed by the enemy. We are trained from childhood to treat strangers kindly & it's hard completely throw that away.

The foot soldier hates the enemy all right, but they'd rather be somewhere else.

There's a deep conflict at work in combat like this. The individual would rather be home relaxing with family - not another day of blood & dismembered bodies. In reality, any kind of loss of momentum -be it a Christmas break or whatever- can have disasterous consequences. In the long run it just prolongs the war & drives up casualties. I mean, it looks nice on paper and all, but war is a real sh1t sandwitch, served cold. Best to get on with it & get it the hell over with ASAP.

[Marmot1]

He well there is the story....

During WWI an uncle of my father was drafted to german army (he was polish and don't wanted to die for Kaiser... when he was on front near the Verdun he spent almost half a year in trench... He told to my father that regulary every week they were coming to french trenches to play cards and on the other week there was french visit in their trenches... they traded goods etc. and it was comon everyday practice for the whole time he was on front. The german tactic was that troops that holded front didn't atacked, fresh troops arrived, atacked, were slaughtered, then fresch frenchmens arrived, atacked and were slaughtered by MG.Then "old" soldiers returned to their trenches. There was even a whole signal code informing that everybady must return to trench since there would be attack... one thing that he mentioned was that they were mortally scared of french colonial infantry (mainly black senegals) since they were black, atacked at night and often caried knifes in teeths. It was so scary to them since they never seen any black man and were afraid becouse black frenchmens were good knive fighters. But except that life on front was just from one poker night to another one another day he even meet a french infantryman who was polish emmigrant from the same district and they (my father uncle and this polish "frenchman") attended the same school before war but in diferent years... for me that is wired when you have your schoolmate in opposing trench....

P.S C O knew about that practice since they also played cards with germans...

[Capt. Canada]

Well it seems that most wars are just to due to the fact that the politicians in either, or both countries are a bit lost. The ordinary soldiers (atleast in drafted armies) doesn´t seem to have much hate for his enemy, the ordinary grunt on the other side. In professional armies it seems to be a bit different where you seem to be able to hate anyone and kill them just because your countries politicians are idiots and tell you that those are baaad baaaad people. :|

Can´t see much hate in these pictures:



Well that's pure BS... PURE BS..... I don't care what a politician or military leader tells me who the enemy is. In the end I have to believe in the cause, believe he is a enemy, and ultimately make the case in my mind that this person must die. That's me making the decision not someone else, ME. Now granted a person shooting at me allows for a much quicker mental algorithm. That being said what the f*ck do think we are, f*ckin robots???..... You're full of sh*t... Sorry you pissed me off with that trite hackneyed liberal bull****..... F*ckYou and the horse you rode in on.....

F#ck you........you do what the f@you are told by your superiors dont you, so dont tell us that you are any different than the rest. If I were to put you into a crowd of ordinary folk and then watch someone get run down by a car in an ethenically diverse neibourhood, then you would see a riot started by a few and finished by the rest (including you)

So do us a fav and get stuffed :bash:

[Roger Rabbit]

Erm ckip, not to sound like a **** but 1)that bit about ethnic diverse neighbours and what not doesnt appear to make sense and 2) you might want to rethink what you said about Deut before he sees it. Just run a search on this forum and you'll find out why.